Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson (sometimes) - John C. Reilly

Episode Date: June 3, 2026

John C. Reilly talks to Ted Danson about bringing back empathy with his vaudeville-style music act Mister Romantic, how he met his wife on “Casualties of War,” hiding his acting dreams from his dad, his long relationship with Paul Thomas Anderson, why he tried talking Leonardo DiCaprio out of doing “Titanic,” and more.    Learn more about John’s album, "What’s Not to Love?”   Like watching your podcasts?  Visit http://youtube.com/teamcoco to see full episodes.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Being in porn was thought of as taboo. You probably remember, but... Oh, my porn, never mind. We're going to do this a little differently, just the beginning part, because all of us, at least Nick and I, I don't know if you were able to do it, but we're so taken by your music, what's not to love, the album that came out.

And Mary and I listened to it this morning and went nuts and turned to somebody, our assistant, and went, how can we see this stage performance? And you're coming to Ohio. Yeah. I'm so excited. So we will be there. Is that where you live?

Yeah. Well, I don't know if you like to talk about that. I do. No, we do. Another friend lives up there. Yeah, I'm excited. I love Ohio. Yeah, it's wonderful.

And people are really eating up the show. You can feel it in the audience, like a sponge for love and empathy. Well, let me read what you said. Yeah. I looked at our weary world a few years ago and tried to say. think of a way I could spread love and empathy. I decided the most fun way to do that was through performing and singing and telling people I loved them. And then you end this with the lyrics all have something deeply true about them. Somebody once said, it's better to light one tiny candle than to curse

the darkness. Well, this is our little candle in the darkness. Now, we're going to listen to you and I, just for a second, because I'll be seeing you. In all the old familiar places that this heart of mine embraces all day through. In that small cafe, the park across the way, the children's care. There it is. Oh, man. Oh, you're so good. Oh, thank you very much. Mary, who is writing music nowadays.

I think you may have known that, but anyway. Yeah. She told me an incredible story of her discovering she could play the piano. Yeah, yeah. But she was godsmacked by this. Oh, thank you. It's her genre, and she loved it. You know, that song, every song that we do has some kind of story to how I found it or how it came into my life.

And that song, of course, is a very famous song. And I knew it really well from the 1940s. but I saw Tom Waits perform at one time for this. You know who Hal Wilner was? No. He was the music director of SNL for 30 years and a great producer and just this incredible musical kind of godfather. And there was this memorial for Hal.

We lost him to COVID. And Tom sang that song and I was sobbing. Wow. Sobbing. And I thought, I got to do that one. I do it almost every show now because it's, such a great closer, you know. We're going to keep talking for a second, but this is the vinyl that you can go out and buy.

And, all right, let's talk about, because this is performance theater as well. Yeah, right? Talk about that. Well, the show itself is like kind of this, like, I call it like an emotional magic act or like a vaudeville show. It's called Mr. Romantic. Yeah, it's called Mr. Romantic. and I play this character, Mr. Romantic, who travels the world in a steamer trunk that's kind of multidimensional. And this band carries this steamer trunk around for thousands of years. And when the

trunk opens, Mr. Romantic comes out and says, hello, I'm Mr. Romantic. I don't know what happened before at all. All I know is that I have to stay in that box. And when I come out of the box, I have to put on a show. And I don't have to go. go back into the box if I can find one person who will love me forever. And that's how every show begins. And so he's this kind of person with no past, his no memories. It's not John Riley. You don't have to bring any of the baggage with you.

You think about me or my films or anything else. And it puts everyone in the audience in the present moment. You know, I kind of stumbled into it. I learned all these songs over many years, and we rehearsed all the songs with the band. But the first time I started doing the show, I had no idea what I was going to do between the songs. And at the last minute, I was like, oh, I've always wanted to, I've always wanted to come out of a steamer trunk. Why? I don't know. But yeah. So I bought a steamer trunk. I measured myself so I could fit in it and everything. And then I thought, well, why would he be in a steamer trunk? Well, maybe that's where he lives.

Well, why would he be coming out of the steamer trunk? You know, so all these things, it was like improv. You know, like one thing led to another, led to another. And all of a sudden, this arc of the show develops where I try to fall in love with people every night in the audience. And you'll see when you come see it. But when the show begins, the first couple of people I talk to are usually women. And there's this moment that comes in every show when I start to talk to a man in the audience. And I say, Ted, when the show began, you might have been thinking I'll only be speaking to women. but I have to tell you, Ted, I'm not gay or straight.

I'm desperate. And then what happens is, instead of 50% of the room feeling like they're going to be maybe talked to, the whole room is united that, oh, wow, none of us are off the hook. He might want to fall in love with me. He might talk to me. And it just does this wonderful thing. It unites people. And through the course of the show, it makes them feel safe.

And we talk about love and kindness. And for 90 minutes or so, that's it. There is no past. There is no future. There's just this, which to me is pure theater. That's what theater is. When it's as alive as that and in the moment as that. So I kind of stumbled into this beautiful show that has really given my life meaning.

I totally get that. I know how you feel after a long career as an actor, right? You start to like, well, I've made the money. I've worked with people I really respect. I've done a lot. I've given a lot. I've played a lot of characters. What is it going to make me feel like my life has meaning at this point?

And given everything like when you read my statement, they're like given what's going on in the world and how empathy has kind of become this uncool thing to some people, anyway, I personally think it's a superpower. Given what's going on in the world, you know, we've done the show on days when there have been school shooting, and terrible developments in war, personal tragedies of my own,

I've had to get up and do the show and become someone who's not me, who's connected in a more universal way to everyone. So, yeah, it's been a pretty cool thing. We've been doing it for about four years now. We made this record. We're about to come out with another record of similar kind of music.

Probably come out in the fall, I think. But anyway, I'm so good. glad you liked it. And Ted, I'm a big fan of yours, of course, but I really came here because I love Mary. Which not only no offense, but that makes you a really smart person who I now love even more. I'm sure you've heard it before because she's something special. I go through life with people taking a second look at me when they see that Mary's with me. They go, well, okay, maybe. I'll take another look. Yeah. And she sent so much love. And it was true. truly knocked out by this.

Wow. I mean, I woke up going, okay, and I started going through your thing, you know, whatever this top thing is about the music, I'll look at that in a minute, and I was going through all your films that I love, and you as an actor I love. And then I went back and turned on your album, and it was like, oh, my God.

And I looked at the video, the music video. I so encourage everybody. Where is it? Is it online? Is it out there? Yeah, it's everywhere. It's out there on YouTube. It is so good.

That song was a. what will I do? Yeah. What will I do by Irving Berlin for that video? And that's one of the, that was the first song. Well, the show was also inspired by my work in Chicago, the musical, when I played Mr. Sellefane. I finished that and I kind of rediscovered musical theater through that movie.

From your youth. Yeah, I had been doing it since I was eight years old. That's where I learned to be an actor was musical theater, you know, guys and dolls and King and I and all these. So, and then I went to acting school and I was like, well, serious house. actors like De Niro and Pacino don't do musicals. You know, I got to get it serious now. And then I did that for a while.

Then that movie came along and I realized like, wait a minute, not only do serious actors do musical theater, but you got to be pretty damn good. You have to have a pretty good skill set to pull this off. And I can do this. I've been doing this since I was a kid. So it made me realize like musical theater is one of the only original American art forms. You know, jazz and, American musical theater.

Everything else, opera, classical music, you name it, came from Europe or whatever, you know, the English brought over or whatever, but musical theater, as it exists now, is kind of an American invention and it's a beautiful art form. So I realized

I should keep doing this, but there's so few musicals made. I'm still waiting for guys and dolls to be made. I think I've aged out of Nathan Detroit now. I've moved into nicely, nicely hopefully but hopefully someday someone will make that movie but um i thought well he only has two songs he can't go on stage as mr selifane do you know what are you going to do so i started collecting songs and it took like 20 years of collecting songs but that song what'll i do was the first one that i thought

oh this is in the same kind of point of view as as mr selophan someone who's you know this timeless clown who's just wants to be seen, you know. Anyway, I love that. I love that she's doing this. And I think it's so important nowadays to, as I say all the time here, because she's a friend. Not everyone can be Jane Fonda and jump up on the barricades. Exactly.

You know, but you do want to be humming your note out in the world. You don't want to, you know, not have a voice out there. And if your note is about hope and love and empathy and kindness, that is such a great note. be humming. Yeah, and it's also not really political. No. It's human. I'm a humanist. You know what I mean? Yeah. And whenever people have, don't you want to come on the record as this kind of political statement or da-da-da-da-da. I'm like, well, I don't want to alienate anyone who doesn't have those political views. And anyone who really has watched what I do already knows how I might vote politically. I don't have to tell them. They already know. You know, it's pretty obvious in most elections who's on the side of humans and who's on the side of business or whatever else, you know.

And if you want to deliver a political message, Hollywood actors are probably the last place. You would want to come, if you want really to have somebody on the other side of the aisle, listen. Yeah, exactly. Without chalking us off immediately. You know, maybe it's a kind of defeating point of view, but I really do think it's true. If a celebrity endorsement could win you elected office, we wouldn't be in the situation we're in. You know, if you got Bruce Springsteen and Beyonce on your side and you still can't pull off the election, well, maybe endorsements don't matter that much, you know.

And I'm not saying people should not speak their minds and not be responsible citizens and not take action politically and speak your mind whenever you want. It's a free country. But I'm just saying like this idea that like, oh, if we could only get, what, a Taylor, They're Swift, for Christ's sake. You know? Yeah. She pretty much endorsed Kamala. And is there a bigger fan base in the world?

You know? Yeah. And it's just people don't go to entertainers for those kind of decisions, I don't think. But who is the character? I'm so bad at musicals that you played in Chicago who just, what was it? Just wanted to be seen, as I would you said? Yeah, Amos Hart is the name of the character. But he's, yeah, called Mr. Sellefin in the song.

But to be humming that note and that message. of just wanting to be seen is way more universal than any political message you could get out there. Yeah. I have people in my family that have very different political views than me. So like everyone in this world right now, we all know what it's like. So, okay, I've got to go to Thanksgiving dinner now. Like, how am I going to just take a stand and start wagging my finger? Or am I going to see the human beings around me and try to connect?

That's really what this show is. single time I talk to someone of the audience, it's just an opportunity to connect. Yeah. You know, people ask me like, oh, is anyone ever, like, not cooperate? Does anyone ever, like, kind of mess up the show or whatever? Or are these people plants? Like, none of them are plants? I can guarantee you that. And I have, like, a 99% success rate with people. And I think it comes from really looking at them, being the present moment, and just noticing something about them that you'd like. Yep. You know, if we all did that in our everyday life, maybe the world would be a little bit better.

And you just see people, you know, they might stand up and, what is this guy going to make fun of me? Is it going to want? And then you say like, oh, look at your hair. I love your hair, Ted. Look how you combed it today. You know, like. Thank you. And you just see, the armor just melts off.

Mine just did. But did I hear you say stand up? People, you asked them to stand up. Yeah, yeah. I move to a crawl all over the audience. You'll see. I go in, I get all, I get right in it with people. Yeah. One other thing, your band, you said the band. Is this a band you bring together whenever you do the show? Are they always with you? Or do you put together a new one? They're ridiculously talented guys. Unbelievable. They all have different bands and all their projects. And yes, we come together for the shows. But they are this. I don't.

swap them out, you know. Although since that record was made, we had to find a new bass player because our old bass player rediscovered his old band and had to like head out onto the road. But yeah, so we got David Garza, who plays piano and guitar, who's sort of the band leader. He made a record with Fiona Apple, her last record. Incredible. You know, David Pilch now plays the base with us. He's played with Katie Lang and Joe Henry, and just a million people. Gabe Witcher plays the violin. He was in the Punch Brothers. Charles DeCastro has this incredible local band here

that call the California Featwomers and another brass band called the Blasting Company. So I surrounded myself with the very, very best I could find. And these are all people that I knew through one way or another, through movie projects or performing at Largo or, you know, I just have this kind of large musical family here in L.A. and these guys are, you know, they're such an incredible part of the show, too.

You'll see you. I'm so glad that is not my phone. You're actually on air with John C. Riley. Mary! Did you call on purpose so you could be part of the show? You could have just come in, Mary. I know. You're my long-go stepson.

I know. You were the best stepmom. ever had. I told him how much you loved, loved his record. Mr. Romantic. It's so, oh, wow, we cannot wait to come see you. It's going to be so fun. He knows. Yeah, that's going to be amazing. Can I call you back? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And are you billing us for this appearance, or is this a freebie? Yes, you have to, you guys have to pay me. All right, okay, okay. I love you. See you. love to you, John.

Thank you, Mary. Love to you, too. All right. Bye. Bye. Bye. I promise that. That is adorable.

That was. In case you're wondering if Ted and Mary's relationship was real, there you go. That was unscripted. And you said to your wife, can I call you back? That's so polite to say to your wife. I would have been like, I'm in the middle. I have to call you later. I can't wait to see you before.

It'll go by the record. Well, it was more about probably the band, but speaking of bands, we did do one film together. Well, music video. Wait, which one was it? The Beastie Boys. Do you remember the Beastie Boys? Oh, that's right. Well, the big one that Adam Yow directed.

Yeah, make some noise. Yes, yes. Oh, my gosh. That was like a cast of thousands. That was like around the world in 80 days. Yeah. Yeah, it was literally there was like catering trucks and everything. It was really good.

That was a wild day. We had a pee fight meeting up Jack Black and Wolf Barrel. Yeah. Yeah, it was fun. The other thing you have coming out is Buffalo Bill. Yeah, heads or tails is called. Yeah, I played Buffalo Bill Cody in this crazy Italian spaghetti Western. Yeah, Samuel Goldman is the distributor here.

I think they did a really small release. And then all these companies are just biding their time until they can get it on the streamers, I think. Yeah, good point. Really proud of it. We had a great screening of it in New York. It looks fantastic. Yeah. Okay, take me back. Take me back.

We'll get to some of your movies here. We should talk about Woody at some point, too. Woody, what did you do with Woody again? Well, I did the Thin Red Line and the Prairie Home Companion movie. I think one other. Yeah. Anyway, I love Woody. Thin Red Line where you were in North part of Australia.

Yeah, yeah. For months. For like six months, yeah. I'm not going to get into the whole story. There's some wild stories from that one. Sean Penn and Woody. Oh, yeah. Oh, I know that whole story.

The practical joke run. That went awry. That's a separate podcast. I could take you through that for an hour and a half. Because I was there beat by beat. I was present for every part of it. And both of them are A-type personalities that will not go, oh, well-played and drop it. Oh, no.

No. It escalates. escalates to the point where they didn't talk to each other for several years. Yeah. Anyway, different podcasts. Neither one of those guys, I would never pick a fight with either one of those guys. They're like people that I knew in my old neighborhood in Chicago, like, well, you might think you can beat them in a fight. And even if you did beat them in the first round, the fight is not over.

And the weapons move from a pine cone to a rock between your eyes. Yeah. Terrible. Incredible actors, both of them. Yeah, you can see that he's not the most dedicated podcast. Sometimes. Sometimes. When was the last sometime?

He was here with Harrison Ford because they were both here for the, you know, the screen actors. He's an international man of mystery. I run it to Woody all over the world. Yeah, yeah. I think the last time I saw him was in Italy. You've been married. How long?

34 years. On casualties of war, right? She was, yeah. She used to be Sean's assistant. And then became his development person. Yeah. We met my first movie. Was that your first movie?

Yeah, I was 22 years old when I met my wife. Wow. Incredible, yeah. It took me a few years to, like, convince her that she should be mine forever, but I eventually did. On the set, you were on location, kind of meet? We were in Thailand. We met in Thailand, yeah.

And how did that go? So I get, so I, this is another very long story where I could, that movie was, The first time I was on an airplane, the first time I left the country, the first time I was in a movie, you know, like the first time I was ever on camera, you know, like. De Palma? Who wrote? Brian De Palma, yeah. And it's a long story how I was originally like a day player and then I got bumped up to a cameo. Then I got bumped up to one of the leads of the movie, incredibly.

But on the first day I got there in Phuket, Thailand, I just arrived. I didn't know anybody. I went to my room and put my bag down. I was like, it was like a Saturday or a Sunday, so there was no work or anything that day. And I was like, it was like a hotel on a beach. And I was like, well, the hell else am I going to? I guess I'll go to the beach.

Like, there's no one around. Like, I walk down on the beach and I go out there and I sit down in the sand. And I notice there's another guy where I look and it's, it's Michael J. Fox. Right. Which is the first surreal moment. I was like, oh, my God. And I knew he's in the movie, but I was like, hi, I'm John. He's like, hey, how are you doing?

Like, I scoched over in the sand a little bit. Now I'm drinking a beer with Michael J. Fox on the beach, like after my first airplane ride. And this woman of about 100 feet down in a black one-piece bathing suit walks across the sand and goes into the water. And I was like, who is that? And he's like, oh, that's Allison. She works for Sean. I was like, oh, duly noted. And then she came out of the water.

And she had been there for a little while already. And she knew all the kind of urchin kids that were around the beach all the time. There were all these kind of like local kids. And she knew them all. She knew their names. And that's when we first kind of connected. She was introducing me to these kids. I was like, this is a special one.

And I was right. You know, I don't know what it was like the first time you met, Mary. but yeah, right? You're just like, if I'm smart, I'm going to follow up on this. So, yeah, that was the first time I met. Who made the first move? We became friends first. Good.

First move. Yeah. And I don't, it's not like I knew, I just knew like, wow, I'm fascinated with this person. We became friends first and then, well, there's all these things that involve the movie, like getting recast and stuff. Eventually, when I was recast into that cameo part, they were like, well, listen, that part doesn't shoot for another three months or something. So go back home and we'll bring you back when it's time for you to shoot.

And I thought, well, I'm all this way. Like maybe I should stop in L.A. where I've also never been. And Allison's like, you should visit me when I'm there, you know, because she had already gone back. You know, she was just there setting things up for Sean. And I went back and we hung out. She took me all these incredible, exciting places in L.A., like, underground clubs and all this stuff. And I was like, this girl is the coolest person I've ever met.

She had an amazing taste in music. She turned me out to Edda James and it's really cool, David Bowie stuff that I didn't know. Anyway, and she had a boyfriend at the time, and it looked like it was maybe ending. But then they got back together, and I was like, oh, no. So then I went off on my way. I finished the movie. cast in another part in the movie and went on, did more movies, and stayed in touch with her, and I just kind of tried to wait out this relationship.

And eventually I did. Yeah. And it wrote her love letters, and I dated people that looked like her because I thought... Oh, wow. Actually, the final moment came where I was like, I was doing a movie in Santa Cruz, and I realized, like, okay, she's back with this guy. And it's, it's not going to work out for you, you know. So are you an honest person, you know, do you really love this person?

This is a communicate. I'm saying this to myself. Saying this to myself. And I thought, listen, if you really love this person, you should, you should stay friends with them anyway. And so I called her up in the phone. And I was like, listen, I got this huge house up here in Santa Cruz on the beach. I had all these kind of real estate moves I would. make before Airbnb. I would like take the money they gave me from the Ramada in and like rent a

house that was for sale for like and then I'd make money on anyway. So I had this big house on the beach. I was like, you should come up with her then boyfriend. Just come up. The two of you hang out. Let's be friends, you know. And she's like, um, okay. Yeah, maybe. And I couldn't quite tell how she was feeling about everything, you know. And then, uh, and then she asked another friend. a mutual friend of ours. Will you come with me? I can't bring my boyfriend up there. You have to come with me.

And our mutual friend of this girl was like, I'm not going to Santa Cruz with you to hang out with John Roddy. You have to go. You have to go. And then after I made that phone call, another friend of mine in L.A. called me and said, hey, guess what I just heard?

They broke up. And this is after the phone call when I said, you guys should just come up. I want to be your friend. And so I called her back after I got that call. I was like, and they got her answering machine. And I was like, hey, so yeah, you should definitely come up. You know, I'm here and it's a beautiful place.

And anyway, she did come up. And we were together for the rest of your life. Yeah, for the rest of our lives. Wow. That was 30. That's a great love story. Seven years ago. Yeah.

Very cool. And you have kids? I have two sons, yeah. How old? They're 24 and 27 now. Isn't that just weird? Yeah, it is. Ours are in their 40s.

Wow. You know, that's weird. You know, we're going to our, we have a 14-year-old, soon to be driving, you know, a grandchild. And we have five grandkids. Anyway, it's wonderful. It's incredible. Yeah, kids are something, if you invest early and you invest with your time and your energy and your care, it really pays big dividends, man.

You know, like those two guys are still some of the best company. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I always think like what people, I hear people, you know, there's a million different kinds of kids, a million different kinds of parents. But whenever I hear people like, oh, my kid did this and they're driving me crazy and as teenagers, I thought like, well, how much time did you spend when pre six years old?

You know, like, and that sometimes you realize like, well, people, think they can catch up later. But I think it's an important thing to say to people like, hey, listen, I know everyone says it goes so fast and blah, blah, blah, blah, but it really does. All those cliches are true. It goes way faster than you can even imagine. And those years that seem like eternity

when you're changing diapers and driving people to school. Yeah. And it seems like this is it. I'm a sentence for life to this life of parenting, you know, like the hard parts of it, you know. And then it's over. There is a period where they think you're idiots. They think that you're idiots.

And it's a little hard to, but if you just kind of skate over that, they do come back. Yeah. And they include us with their friends, which is such a gift. Yeah. By and large, I'm sure not all of them. But by and large, because we get to hang out with young people. Exactly. Which is really cool when you're in your 70s.

You don't have to suck their blood to get their life. No. You can just be near them, right? It's tempting. So go back to you. You start in Chicago. Yeah, it was born and raised on the south side of Chicago. Yeah.

What is south side of Chicago look like in the what? Is the 70s or? I was born in 65. Yeah. So yeah, 60s into the 70s. It was a tough place to live, actually. Are you going out every day and being able to play on your own on the street with kids? Completely.

A neighborhood full of people with 5, 6, 8 kids. It was just like mayhem on the streets And I would leave the house like 8 o'clock in the morning In the summertime, I mean Eight in the morning, I wouldn't come home until curfew. Well, it used to be a curfew for young people in Chicago when I was growing up.

So if the cops caught you walking around after 10.30 at night, they would pick you up and take you home. But anyway, yeah, so I'd be gone from 8 in the morning until curfew. And I had 35 first cousins within a 10-block area of where I lived. So I could leave in the morning and go for breakfast at grandmas and get some lunch at Aunt Lillians and then stop by when so-and-so was having dinner. And then, yeah, you know.

And the family would know where you were because you just dropped by this pleasant. If they wanted to, yeah. But there were six kids in my family, so it was a lot to keep track of. I don't know, you know, I don't know if you know anyone in your life and your family that had big families. I don't understand how my parents did it. Yeah. Like, just the two kids took everything, every amount of care and attention and focus, you know, how to do that for six, eight kids? Yeah.

It's a whole other thing. I think what ends up happening is the kids start raising themselves, you know? I know people that come from families of 13, and I was like, what was it like with your mom? She's like, my older sister was my mom. You know, my mom was so tired and busy, you know. Where were you in the order of kids? fifth of six. So your oldest sibling is how old now? So my eldest sister passed away, but the spread between us goes about two years. So it's... Ten years ahead of you. Yeah, something like that.

And everyone go off and do what they wanted to do in life, kind of? Yeah, although no one's in show business or anything like that. How did that happen for you? It's just a miracle that happened for me. I I kept doing plays when I was a kid doing musicals. Where was it? In your high school? Even in grammar school, I would do it at the parks. The Chicago Park District had drama class, as I used to call it. And you'd go there and take improv classes or do play musicals.

And all these incredible mentors from a very young age who worked at the park. And then when I got into high school, then I started doing not only musicals at my high school, brother Rice on the south side which is Christian brothers boys Catholic high school I would do plays at the girls Catholic high schools too because I realized like oh wow

they need guys like you know I go over there like I'm in a much smaller pool of talent how often can they do little women they need some of the guy and you know those are some of the most important mentors of my life and I've talked about it

before publicly but there was a school called Mother McCauley that was run by nuns. And it was like a liberal arts high school. They had a thousand-seat auditorium. They had a music program and a classical instrument program, and singing and all the stuff. And all these women that worked there,

were all women that worked there. They were like my mentors. They taught me how to find my voice. They taught me what feminism was. You know, my main teacher was this woman, Donna Martin, I'm a collie. She was the one who directed the plays when I was there.

And Donna Martin, we call her Ms. Which on the south side of Chicago was like, whoa. She's not Miss or Mrs. She's Ms. And later I found out she's in a relationship with a woman and she's been, you know, she's a gay woman, you know, but she couldn't say that at the time, you know. But so I was taught and raised by these gay women who were feminists, you know. And not only them, not only the lay people,

people at that school, but the nuns, too. I don't know if that they were gay, but they were strong women. They were teaching girls how to be strong women, and I just like benefited from being there. Aren't you lucky? I mean, when you look back, it's like, oh, wow. Because the choices in my neighborhood were, you know, that was a real blessing to meet those women. Very cool. Yeah. Then what? then I went to the DePaul University when I started there was called the Goodman School of Drama With the Goodman Theatre. Yeah, well it began at the Goodman Theater. By the time I went there, it had moved to DePaul because the Art Institute where the Goodman

Theater School was, no longer wanted to have it. So they moved it to DePaul. And now it's called the Theater School at DePaul University. But it's like a conservatory program, similar to Juilliard. where you're just there all day, every day. You start out working backstage and then doing kind of intro to performance and then you join this casting pool.

And yeah, it was, I couldn't believe I stumbled into that one too because my dad was like, it's funny. I mean, I have so many stories, Ted, I could just talk. Give me one. For hours. But my dad told me when I was in high school, listen, he knew I kind of wanted to be an actor

before even I knew because I was just, I just kept doing it. I was like, I kept thinking, I got to get a job. I got to get a job. Well, in the meantime, I'm going to keep doing plays, you know. And my dad could tell, like, that's what I was interested. And he said, listen, if you can get a B plus average by the time you graduate high school, you can go wherever you want, I'll pay for it.

I'll figure it out. You can go to Juilliard if you want, you know? And then there's no way in hell I was going to get a B plus average in high school. I thought high school was like my day job. I didn't care at all. To me, a C was the perfect grade. Yeah. You know, not embarrassing, but not a failure, not overachieving.

In striking distance. Yeah, yeah. I was like, boom, right in the middle. I did it. And so my dad was like, okay, well, you didn't do it. My dad was a man of his word. And he was like, now you're going to go where I want you to go. You're going to go where one of my employees went, which is DePaul, to study business.

And you're going to take over my company, a linen supply company in Chicago. And I thought, okay, well, yeah, I'll go to DePaul, Dad. And so I went there. You know, my parents were very hands-off. I don't know what your parents were like, but my parents were like, go to school. It's over there. Yeah. Like, they didn't sweat the kind of stuff that I sweat about my kids, what school.

Are they doing okay? You know, my parents would just go, you know, leave the house and go to school. So my dad said, go and figure it out at DePaul. Go play to DePaul. And I went and took a tour, and I realized they have this theater school. there. I was like, oh my God. So I auditioned. You got to audition. It would be asked back every year.

It was a very rigorous program. And then my dad and I had the same name except a different middle initial. And I knew, like, if he ever finds out the classes I'm actually taking here, he's going to be furious. So I deliberately, when I registered for school, didn't put my middle initial. I just put John Riley so that whenever the mail came to the house, I could just just open it and say, well, it says John Riley. I'm entitled to open it. In case my dad, you know what I mean? And then one day, I didn't get home fast up. Were you living at home?

I was living with my dad, actually. I moved, my parents separated and my dad, an apartment building that I, or an apartment, and I lived in the basement. And I used to kind of catch the mail every time, you know, make sure. Like, so, and then after three years of school, midway through my third year of school, he beat me to the mail. And I walk in to his. his apartment and he's standing there looking at these grades and he's like, I see your grades from DePaul here. I see acting, theater history, movement, voice and speech, makeup. There was even a makeup class. He's like, I don't see any business classes on here. And it was like one of those moments in your life where you have to define who you are, even before you're sure that's who you are. And I said,

Dad, I'm going to be an actor. He's like, I was like, Dad, I'm going to be an actor. I'm not going to be a businessman. I'm going to be an actor. And he was like, well, at least you got a average. They got great grades when I was studying acting, you know. And he kind of like, all right, you know. And my dad was someone who really loved.

My dad, his favorite movie was Casablanca. And he could tell you, Sidney Green Street, Lionel Barrymore, and Walter Houston and Humphrey Bogart. And he taught me who all, who cared. director actors were. He taught me what that term meant. And he educated me in movies like, that guy. You see, that guy, that guy. So it was just immensely satisfying when I got my first movie right after college. I first started working at Steppenwolf Theater a little bit. And then I got my first movie. And my dad was just so proud of me. Casualties of War. Yeah, the one we were

talking about where I met Allison. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. He was really, really proud of me. But then, I'll finish the story now. Then I finished that movie and then I was unemployed again. I came back to Chicago like the conquering hero. Oh my God, John John's in a movie, you know, like. But I just felt like an unemployed person, you know. And I realized like, man, this is hardcore.

Like the success and then the unemployment, like I don't know if I can take that, you know. And I really started to think like maybe I'm not cut out for that. emotional roller coaster. And I went and visited my dad in Florida one time. And my dad was very patrician. It would often, like, not even make eye contact with you unless he wanted you to hear

something, you know? And I was walking up this staircase with him at his house in Florida. And I said, Dad, I got to say, I don't know if I can take the roller coaster of this kind of job. I think I'm going to go back to carpentry

for a little while. because I was a great carpenter. After what? Nine months or something of being out of work after casually? Yeah, a few months, you know. Oh, wow. Yeah, it was just right away. I was like, I do not like how this feels, you know,

after being so celebrated and then like, what are you doing now? What's your next thing? I had nothing, you know? And I said, Dad, I think I want to go back to, you know, carpentry for a little while. And he stopped on the stairs. And he turned and looked right at me and he said, we have enough carpenters in this family.

stick with what you're doing. And I was like, I, aye, I. And that was like, he was like, kid, you don't understand how lucky you are. You got to keep doing this. So, thanks, dad. Good for him. Yeah.

Yeah, good for him. Then what was the second one? I did three movies in a row with Sean Penn, who took a real shine to me. And to this day, I owe Sean so much. I mean, I met my wife because of Sean, you know. Did you have to ask? ask his permission, by the way.

No, I just kind of slid in there. I'm like, whatever. Yeah, be curious to see what he thought about all that. But so the second movie I made was, We're No Angels. Fantastic. De Niro. With De Niro and Sean.

Yeah, Neil Jordan directed that one. And then, and then Sean was like, what are you doing next? And I was like, I don't know. And he's like, you should do this next movie I'm doing too. You should come, you got to audition, though. And with State of Grace. I just watched a clip from that. Oh, yes, on Criterion right now.

It hasn't been on the streamers at all, and now it's on Criterion. That's a fantastic movie. So I did those first three together with Sean, and then I was kind of like, once I kind of attached my wagon to him a little bit, I was like, well, now I'm thought of as a quality person. Yeah. Because I've been associated with Sean or whatever. That said, I realized early on, like when I was working with Sean on the first movie, he kept himself very separate from the other actors because he was like, I'm the sergeant. I'm not supposed to be your buddy. So he kept himself separate from it. And I realized like someone like Sean, you're either his

peer or you're his boy, you know? And I was like, I ain't nobody's boy. You know, like, that's just not, that's not how I am, you know. And so I really, and I'm not his peer. So I kept a very professional distance. I would never hit him up for socializing or anything like that. I would just like show up. If he asked me to do anything, I would do it. But I would, I kind of kept, you know, I kept my kind of dignity or something. You know, I just, really smart though. And I think Sean really appreciated that too. You know, like, I'm sure people are asking him for things all the time. And I was just like, I just want to do a good job. And I just want to earn my keep. And I had an audition for all three of those movies I made with him.

But being in those films did set you apart from other people like, oh, he's doing serious work with serious directors and actors, which is pretty cool. Yeah, and I realized then, and I didn't, it's not like I had this like, I'm one of the greats. I have to make sure I pick quality projects. I would have done anything out of college. In fact, I remember auditioning for that Chucky movie, Child's Play, to be one of the thugs or whatever.

and I didn't get it. I was heartbroken, you know. But I think now you think like, wow, what if I had done, Chuckie? Yeah. Then what would that have led to? What have that led to? And then Sean actually might have even said it to me directly. He's like, listen, what you're known for is the last thing you did.

So make sure whatever you do is as good or better than the last thing you did. And it takes patience, you know, and you have to say no a lot and you have to like believe in yourself, but I had a great mentor in Sean from the very beginning. Yeah. I didn't quite go that route, but with another day. When did Boogie Nights come about? Boogie Nights was, that's the second movie I made with Paul Anderson, actually. I made his first movie Hard 8, which he invited me to this Sundance Filmmakers Workshop,

which was like kind of a summer camp for wannabe filmmakers. And that's where Paul started. Yeah, and then we became thickest thieves, really, really close friends right away after that first movie. And then we, he wanted to make Boogie Nights before he made his first movie. Actually, he grew up in the valley in Studio City. And he knew the porn industry. You know, he saw this shadow world over there and was fascinated by it. And the fact, I think when he was like 16, he made this kind of half-assed,

short film called Dirk Diggler with just people that he knew. And Bob Ridgley is in it. You know, Bob Ridgley plays the producer in Boogie Knice. Yeah, yeah. He was in Blazing Saddles as the executioner. Anyway, Bob Ridgely,

one of the all-time great comedians. And, yeah, character actors. Anyway, so, yeah, Boogie Nights was this thing that had been percolating in Paul's mind for years and years. And then finally, like, he wrote this incredible script. And at the time, we were trying to get that movie made, because I was really like kind of his right-hand man

for at least three movies we made. I was his wing man. You know, I would... What does that mean? What do you mean, like? You know, like, his... I would... I was ride or die with Paul.

I would do anything I could to help him because I saw his talent from the very beginning, from the first time I read his first script. I thought, holy shit, way to the world gets a load of this guy. Because just for his ability to tell a story in a script without putting a bunch of, you know, stage directions and stuff, over-explaining.

You can just read the dialogue in Paul's movies and you know what's going on between the characters, you know. I thought like, wow. So, yeah, so I was kind of like, we were thick as thieves. I was like, he was my best friend, and I just did everything I could to help him, you know. anyway, at the time we were trying to get boogie nights put together, being in porn was thought of as taboo. It's hard to even imagine. Now, you probably remember, but...

Oh, my porn, never mind. And all these actors and their managers and their agents were like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Porn? Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, no. And there's a penis in the movie and it's all, you know, like everyone. No, no, no, no. And Paul just doggedly went after one, after the other, after the other. And, yeah, Mark Wahlberg's manager told him, don't do it, you know, like.

And before Mark was asked to do the movie, Paul really wanted Leo de Caprio to do it. And I had already done what's eating Gilbert Graham with Mary and Leo. And I knew Leo. I met him when he was 17. And I was like, give me the assignment, Paul. I'll get this guy to do your movie. I know him since he's a kid, you know, like. And so I go and meet him.

And Leo had been offered Titanic. And I sat down with him on Hillhurst there in Silver Legen. I was like, listen, Leo, let me tell you something. That movie, Titanic, is about a boat that sinks. Everyone knows the boat sinks. No one's going to give a shit about who's on the boat. Yeah. This is about a penis that goes up.

And I was like, this guy, this director, is going to be one of the most talented film directors going forward. And you should not miss this opportunity. And he's like, well, I don't know. Like, my agents are off, they're saying this is going to be a really big movie and I should do it. And I was like, I'm telling you, man, I'm telling you. I wouldn't give you a bum steer here. Like, it's about a boat that sinks. And so the rest is history.

You know, Leo went. And then, but then Leo regretted that decision. I think I can't speak for him, but I think that all the success, the massive success that came with that movie was both a blessing and a curse. You know, like it was just a lot for a young man.

And I think he thought like, what would my other path have been? And then finally it happened this past couple years with another battle. Or one battle after another. Yeah. Yeah, so that was very satisfying for me that both Sean,

who Paul had been chasing, for years, too, to be in his movies. Both Sean and Leo are in that movie. It just felt like, finally, he took my advice. It took 25 years or something. I had hysterics watching Sean. I thought it was the most brilliant, brilliant performance I know. He's so messed up at the end of that movie.

You almost can't recognize it, but you know who it is because he's walking like this. Just spectacular. Yeah. Wow. So what about getting the women's stars for that? That must have been hard for him. For Boogie Nights?

Yeah. Yeah, well, I think Paul loved Robert Altman. And I'm not sure when his friendship with Robert Altman began, but I think that was his inn with Julianne. Yeah. Because Julian had already worked with Bob. And a lot of the other people, you know, once he got that movie set up with the main people,

Oh, and he wanted Warren Beatty to be the Bert Reynolds part. Right. And Warren just whatever, just couldn't commit and whatever. And so Paul found Bird. Which was brilliant. Yeah, perfect. Absolutely. In many ways, probably better than in a whatever.

You can debate it. But so he, in a weird way, like, you know what to tell you the truth? The way that movie really got made was Mike DeLuca at New York. line said to Bob Shea, you've got to make this movie. And I'm not sure if this is true. It's become kind of a legend now, but he said, I'm going to leave New Line unless you make this movie. And so Bob She said, all right, what is this? Who's this kid? What don't they feel? It's porn. All right. All right, whatever. It wasn't very much money in the scheme of themes for them. So he let it happen. Then Paul then was able to kind of pick, you know, nobody knew who Heather

Graham was at the time, no one knew who Bill Macy was really. Heather Graham, spectacular. So he assembled this kind of incredible collection of actors. You're spectacular in it. Oh, thank you. I just watched it recently in a new 70-millimeter print of it, and I was like, boy, that character's a lot. Reed just does not shut up.

But it's so much fun to see somebody who thinks he's way higher up the ladder than he really is, and he's so confident. It's a dream. It is such a wonderful place to be funny without having to try to be funny. Well, Paul, he said, it really tickled him. He's like, your relationship with Dirk begins like this. You're making margaritas trying to vibe him. And the direction he gave me for that scene was like, dominate him.

Yeah. Dominate him. Everything that comes along, anything you talk about, try to one-up him and dominate him. You know, so it's like, what do you bench? You know, this kind of braggado show. Who's this kid? The new kid. By the end of that day, we're in a hot tub together.

And I say, you want to hear a poem I wrote? I literally fall in love with Dirk by the end of the day. I love when you say how much you press, clearly a lie. You know, something like 300 pounds. Then you ask him what he presses. When he's answering, you hit the lender button. So it's like. Can't even hear, don't even care.

Yeah, that was a lot, a lot of fun. That was probably the funest summer of my life, you know. Who played the, who was the guy you broke into the house, the drug dealer? Oh, Alfred Molina. Yeah, he was, he was spectacular. Yeah, yeah. And that's all these people, I don't think Fred Molina at the time would have been the first choice for a studio or something. Yeah.

But Paul loves movies so much. much. He remembered Alfred from Raiders the Lost Dark. Oh, wow. From me the whip. I'll give you the idol. You know, like the beginning of that movie, he was like, who's that guy? Who's that guy? I mean, that's how Paul found me. You know, he saw me in casually, who's that guy? Who's that guy? Yeah. You know, and he would just, you know, he sees things in people. That's Paul's real gift. He can look at people. He can be in a room and he can tell what everyone's feeling, what they're insecure about. But he might not say it, but he's a real savant for the way people are. He has emotional intelligence. It's really

interesting. So when he sees actors that spark to him, he was just like, that guy's, he's on my team. He's on my team, you know? And I thought, you know, for a while I thought, well, we have this company of actors, the 12 or 15 of us, like, we'll just make every Paul Anderson movie from now on. But there was a really important moment in my relationship with Paul. And I've talked about this before, pretty recently publicly. But after we did these three movies together, and I said to him, I could tell, like, Paul's growing.

You know, after Magnolia, I'm like, look at this. Epic, you made, you know, this is not the kid I met five years ago or whatever. Like, this guy's growing. And I could just sense, like, he had all these loyalties to all these actors. And I thought, like, what if he doesn't want to work with those same actors again?

You know, what if he just needs to expand in other ways? And I said to him, I said, Paul, listen, these three movies you've given me are some of the most important things that will ever happen in my life. And that's true. And I said, but listen, I only ever want you to cast me in one of your movies if I'm right for the part. Don't cast me because I'm your friend.

Cast me because I'm right for the part. And if I'm not, it's cool, man. I'm still here for you. I'm your friend, you know. And the Magnolia was. the last movie I made. I have a little bit part in Lickrish Pizza, but yeah, and I think, I don't know, I'd be curious to ask Paul if he remembers that conversation or whether he thought it was important, but I think as a result of it, I kind of gave him license to just grow, you know,

go find somebody else, go find Daniel Day Lewis and whoever else, like grow your vision, you know? And he's offered me things, to be truthful. It's not like, He never cast me again. He asked me to do a couple things along the way. But I have this weird thing. Like, if I don't think I can really score for you, I'll say no. That's not weird. That's smart.

Well, but someone like Martin Scorsese asks you to do something, and you think, I don't know if I could really score in this part. You now have to tell Martin Scorsese, no, which is not a word here's very often, you know? And same with Paul as Paul was going along. I want you to do this. Like, I got to tell you, man. I want in a loving way, you to release me from this request because I don't think I'm going to score for you in this part. I don't like not, you get to a certain point in your career, whatever track you're on, and you don't have to, you're not expected to audition anymore.

You're just offered stuff. I always think that's not a great idea. Yeah, I agree. When you audition, you get to figure out, oh, this may not be a good fit. for me. Yeah. You know. Or, you know, you could.

Do I like these people? They might say you're auditioning, they're auditioning you, but in your head, you're auditioning them. Somebody told me that early on, which made me, and it's not an arrogant move. It's a move that kind of neutralizes the energy in the room so you don't come in needy. You come in, I want to play. Let's see how this goes. I want to see how it goes, too. Yeah.

Kind of feeling. And also, I think it's also like good to show a director. This is what you might get. This is what I don't want to. It's always a weird thing. I feel bad for directors sometimes when, because I've had most of my roles at this point, it just offered to me and I show up and they trust me.

And then you think like, man, I hope they're happy with what they're getting because they had no idea. I didn't give them any indication that I would play the scene this way or that way or I would interpret the character this way or that way. But yeah, I do think it's important to at least kind of, have you ever been in a meeting for a problem? where you come in thinking like,

this guy wants me to do this thing. Let's see if he's, go in there and you get to the meeting, you're like, oh, he's not sure about me. Being humbled is always a good thing. Or sometimes I think he asked for this meeting or she asked for this meeting with me. And you get to the meeting, you're like,

oh, no, she thinks I asked for this meeting. Yeah. So that's interesting. And then, I don't know, I think that keeps you honest. I think eating shit is nutritious for the soul. That's disgusting. If you have to do that periodically, it's a good thing. Yeah.

You got to remember humility. I mean, especially acting. As soon as you start thinking, like, I'm an expert, it gets so bad. I am the worst. I'm about to start something new, and I can guarantee you I'll get some sort of ailment. Usually, no, my arthritis is really bad now in America. I know, I know, sweetheart. It always is right before.

No, but this is different. I am always just horrified. I have arthritis too. I feel you, buddy. Yeah. And mostly, though, this kind is psychosomatic. It's psychosomatic without doubt. My wife calls it the first day of school.

Yes, it is. And it never gets, it never feels any different than the first day of school. Because you don't, most of the time, you don't know anybody. And you're supposed to, I think, if you're being. truly creative, you start at zero each time. If you're building on what you did last time,

you'll get what you did last time. But if you really are trying to be creative, you start back at I don't know. And I don't know. It's very vulnerable. Because you don't. And then it's, you know, scary. Anyway, I'll let you know about my arthritis. Hey, a couple things. I can't wait.

I do. You are one of my favorite actors. You are a leading man wearing the wardrobe of a character actor. You are all of these my favorite things. You can scare the shit out of me or you can make me laugh. And sometimes just wondering which it's going to be this amazing tension for an audience to watch you perform. I love your record. You're guessing, right?

Surprise is the whole thing, right? Yeah. I love your album. I can't wait to see you perform it. in a couple of weeks or something, whatever it is. First week of June, yeah. Yeah, you really are spectacular. Mary had the best time of her life was shooting stepbrothers.

And I remember coming and just sitting around. I'm winding up here. But I do want to say that I, you would, usually when you visit a spouse or a friend on a set, it's like, hey, I'm here. Yeah. But I kind of go. Since if you're not in it, it's boring. Yeah.

They had sofas around the camera, you know, the video village where the director is watching, you know. And it would be full of people coming just to watch you all rehearse and shoot. It was just magnificent. She's so gay, Mary. She's just, I love to hear her laugh. Yeah, I'm sure you do too. Yeah, she's famous for her. What the fucking fuck.

She gets stopped on the street. Hey, I adore you. You're a brilliant. I adore you too. Yeah, and thanks so much. You're one of the few very handsome men that I really respect. We will lead that. We will lead that.

We'll cut it and put it at the brink. Your whole life, you know, good-looking guys and good-looking girls, for that matter. A lot of times, I get given the world on a platter in some ways, you know? Yeah. But you always have been someone that resonates as an ethical, decent guy. Yeah. Okay. Even though you're so annoyingly handsome.

I accept all of the above. That's it for this week. Special thanks to Team Coco. If you've enjoyed this episode, please send it to a loved one. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts if you're in a good mood. Watch our full-length video episodes

on YouTube.com slash Team Coco. See you next time, where everybody knows your name. where everybody knows your name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes. The show is produced by me, Nick Leow. Our executive producers are Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and myself. Sarah Federovich is our supervising producer, engineering mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez. Research by Alyssa Grawl. Talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Battista.

Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Yen, Mary Steenbergen, and John Osborne.