Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson (sometimes) - Martin Short

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

Ted Danson goes solo today as he’s joined by the formidable Martin Short! They talk about Martin’s experience of loss at a young age, his Canadian upbringing, his SNL tenure, and what it was like working with some of the funniest people in the world, including Larry David. Bonus: Ted and Martin compare notes about aging in comedy.  Like watching your podcasts? Visit https://youtube.com/teamcoco to see full episodes.

I want to know what it's like to be funny at 75, 76. I want to know what it's like to do that when I'm 80. If you surround yourself with funny people, I mean, I'm good friends with Bill Hader, who could be my son. I'm very good friends with John Mulaney. But when we're together, there's no sense of age at all. Hi, welcome back to Where Everybody Knows Your Name. So I would be lying if I said I wasn't a teensy bit nervous for you to hear today's episode.

As you've heard me say before, Woody is going to be popping in and out depending on his work schedule. And today was the first time I was writing solo. I am very excited, though, to introduce our guest, Martin Short. It almost seems silly to give you his credits because everyone truly does know his name. He's an acclaimed actor, comedian, and writer. You can think SNL, Three Amigos, Father the Bride, Only Murders in the Building, even the cult classic Clifford, which he was in with my wife, Mary. I've known Marty for years, but only really had peripheral conversations with him at parties in passing. So I was very excited to sit down with him today and actually have time to find out what makes him tick. He was

incredibly generous with us and shared his journey in life, which included loss and suffering. And yeah, I'm really looking forward to sharing Marty Short with you. Here he is. How's Mary? Mary is fantastic. You're my love. I will. I will. And she to you, as she said to me, he's a wonder. He is a wonder.

Clifford loved her first. That and our house, not just our household. Mary's son, Charlie. I know. Right? Who's off being a director and incredibly bright and all of that. He and his friends love that movie more than just about anything. It became the strangest, strangest thing, how culty that's become.

Yeah. Okay. I've had the best time the last day and a half, two days, doing research at first. But then I grabbed your book. I guess it was done... 2014. Yeah. And started reading. And I've always had you, this is my bad, not yours,

on this kind of comedic genius pedestal. And then reading, you're still there, but reading the book, you are an amazing man. You really are. Your story, what you put out in your book, I really encourage anybody to read it. It is, you know, how you all deal with loss and your whole family. Anyway, I'm rambling. It's a funny family.

It is a funny family. It is a funny family. Anyway, I'm rambling. It's a funny family. It is a funny family. It is a funny family. But really, it sets you up for life, that determination to be positive, use humor. Am I in the ballpark? I think, yes. It's very interesting about, you know, any kind of loss or tragedy that happens in your life, why one either becomes defeated and scarred and branded for life by it or empowered. I mean, I lost my brother at 12, my mother at 17, my father at 20. But at 20, I knew something about loss that no one I knew at 20 knew about. So I did have a leg up.

And it made me, I think, freer on stage. I never cared less whether audiences particularly liked me. I didn't know them. So it made me not worried about being, you know, judged by the admiration of strangers. And I think as an artist, it makes you liberated. So somehow I think there's a yin for a yang and the positive element of that tragedy was to be liberated. Yeah. I have to say that that is, as a performer, it's something I struggle with, performer, actor. Oh, I know. I've seen your work.

Okay. Keep score over there, will you please? That's one. Yeah. No, I do. I think most people do. The fear of failure or what will people think. And I remember Jimmy Burroughs, who directed Cheers, and you know Jimmy. Yes, directed The Associates, my short-lived series in 79. That's right. He used to yell at me if I came up to a joke or a bit or a physical bit that he had given me.

And he could see in my eyes that I thought this may not work or I may not be able to pull this off. And I'd bail. And he'd get so pissed. You know, it's like, give it a shot. I can't imagine. It's so messed up. Well, of course, you know, I'm just seeing it as a fan. But Cheers was such a brilliant show to me.

And I can't imagine any one of you didn't have this unbelievable confidence to proceed. Because everything seems so specific in front of an audience, you know. Yeah. It wasn't like take number 25. No. It was in the 9th 10th 11th season because we just didn't learn lines and it was just you know it's true the audience loved watching us fuck up but in the beginning it was like doing a play and because the set was such you could do a play you could do a five minute scene scene and pull it off. Yeah. Well, I worked with Jimmy Burroughs and the Associates, and that was Jim Brooks at the time had a two-series deal with Paramount.

And the first one, 78, launched was Taxi. And then 79 was The Associates. And it was a great show, but it was filmed, so therefore they were really shooting it like a movie you know a little play and I remember we went to a filming of Taxi and someone screwed up and stopped and I remember Joe Ruggalbuto and I turned to each other and went oh thank god because we were so scared the idea of what if we screw up? And then we realized everyone screws up. Can you still hear in Jimmy's voice, you'd screw up and ruin the setup for the joke. And you'd hear, ah!

He'd be really loud and make this noise so the audience couldn't hear you. Well, then I was hearing James Brooks going, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. You hear it all throughout Mary Tyler Moore. Because Jim wouldn't laugh at the lines. He knew the lines. He'd laugh at new attitude you were introducing. Right.

Jimmy also used to laugh during rehearsals to get us used to, hey, don't speed through this moment. This will be a joke. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Inevitably, he was right. Yeah. And, yeah. Let's talk, speaking of balls of steel of steel yeah i read that in your book who told you you had balls of steel steven colbert no somebody did early on anyway uh maybe john candy yes yeah only murders in the building yeah to me is like

one of the most perfectly designed characters for you, Marty, because you have this. You can, there are jokes that are character jokes that are meant to be kind of lame so that your fellow friends can ridicule or mock or roll their eyes but they might not be designed you know it's like you have freedom to do a bad joke and get a huge laugh or an astoundingly brilliant joke that's not that is just you marty being funny yeah does that make any sense it does it feels like johnny carson used to get more play out of a bad joke sometimes oh my god God. He'd start, dun, dun, dun. He'd just, you know, dance. No, I think that, you know, a lot of, you know,

Steve and I have been doing these live shows for years now and together, and a lot of it is us insulting each other. And so they took some of that element to where we're constantly the two characters charles and oliver are ragging on each other and and there are jokes that fail and there are jokes that

deliberately fail it's very very very great writing in that show which is as you know the gimmick of any right successful series do you have anything to do with the writing? No, not at all. Steve does. I will add, you know, things, a joke here or there, but mainly when I see it, they've not used it. They've gone with their own writing, as they should. Do you do table reads? No, we do Zoom reads.

It started in COVID. Right. You know, we started shooting in 2020 in December. So COVID was still raging and people were in masks and shields. And, you know, the cinematographer had to stay in his shield. I don't know how he was doing it. And so we would read and then we would, I'm an executive producer, so we would give notes and thoughts on the script and what didn't seem appropriate. I'd never want to swear in front of Selena's character because I wouldn't do that, that thing.

And so it just continued to do Zoom table reads. I always find it scary when you're doing one-camera comedy. So it just continued to do Zoom table reads, you know, made it easier. I find it scary when you're doing one-camera comedy because you don't really, as opposed to three-camera live audience, you're told right away, this is funny, this is not. And you respond accordingly. Writers on the spot will change the line to make it funny. Whereas you don't really know until you get in the editing room. Yeah, but I always think, you know, that what I like to do is give a wide range of colors because they're going to figure it out when I'm not there.

They're going to figure it in an edit room and they're going to say, gee, do we have a smaller take? Do we have a bigger take? Do we have a bigger take? Do we have, I mean, I have made movies where you, you know, by week two, no, this film will not work because the director is a moron. Right. But what I, my gimmick is to make everyone love me and then to weasel as many, many takes as I can with as wide a range of small, big, subtle clown. Then, and I'll go up to the director. Oh, could I have one more take?

And he'll say, should we give Marty a freedom take? Because, you know, I've made everyone love me. And now I get my freedom take and i weasel another take and then i go home in the ride and i think he'll pick the wrong one because he's a moron but i'm gonna toast myself with a little champagne tonight because i did all i could do yeah you know it's like even with a talk show i will overare in a preposterous way, send in 15 pages, you know. And then if, as it turns out, I go out and let's say the host is not in a great space or I'm not in a great space in the moment, I go, God bless me, I did everything I could do. To prepare. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That is the key. Practice, practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So do you write, when you go on a talk show, do you write out, you know what your jokes or your fun places are? Then the gimmick is to, I've used gimmick, by the way, about a hundred times. Then the ploy is to make it all look like you're improvising. Right. But you have given them the lead-ins to... Oh, absolutely. Oh, that's so smart. Absolutely.

Yeah. No, I used to, I remember the first time I was doing, I think one of the first American talk shows, because I'm Canadian, was like Dave Letterman had just started his show in 82, the 1230 show. And I was going to go on the show and I was thinking, now, what am I going to do? And I thought, I think what I have to shoot for is appearing like I am really loose at a dinner party.

And I'm telling a story at a dinner party. And I'm like an hour into the dinner and I've had a couple of wines and I'm saying, oh, I'll tell you the story about following Tony Bennett. And that's, but you only have eight minutes. So gotta you gotta do it and then somehow make it look like you're just in the moment yeah here's one of the things that i'm i really love watching you do when you do serious stuff damages uh. You were phenomenal on damages too. Let me just jump in and say something. I've already told you this, I think, in the past. There is a scene in the second season, or is it the first season? First season?

Second season. Where you have had not two scotches, not 12 scotches. You've had four scotches. And it's specifically a little drunk. It was so spot on perfect. You did tell me that. I know. And that meant a lot to me.

I do stick you on a pedestal. And I'm desperately trying to not do that in this moment. But what's amazing about watching you and other people who are incredibly funny, but when you do serious stuff, the threat that you're going to do something bizarrely funny and quirky is always lurking underneath,

even though you never do it because that's not what the part calls for. There's a danger inherent in somebody who's brilliantly funny not being funny. And I just found that mesmerizing to watch. Well, it's interesting. You know, I did a third season of Damages with Lily Tomlin. Right.

And I remember the first day we were shooting, it was supposed to be a deposition. Glenn Close is on one side and I'm Lily's lawyer. She's basically Mrs. Madoff. And I remember Glenn saying, this isn't fair. How am I supposed to get through this? Because it was a very serious scene. But at one point, I think it was Todd Kessler came up to me and said,

he was one of the executive producers and writers and said, Marty, can you try to take, but don't smile. Because when you smile, you become Martin Short. And I said, well, we have a problem because, you know, the evilest people of the world, Kim Jong-un, smiles. So it's not about, I think you're stuck with me. And then he said, we did another. He said, you're absolutely right. I'm sorry. But it is that what they found interesting

by casting people known for comedy in their series was exactly what you're saying, that underlying layer of... Because I always think that a character that you play, no matter how broad it is, if it's Frank or if it's some other... Or Clifford, you have to somehow find the reality of those people.

And if it looks like you're trying to be funny, then it won't be funny. But if Frank is probably a better example, he's, you know, there are people like that in the world. And you go and pick up your shirts at the cleaners, and that guy is hilarious. And he's not trying to be hilarious but he's funny right why make life harder than it needs to be with consumer cellular you get the same fast reliable

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Up to half the cost. That's pretty good. He's watching the pennies. He watches your wallet. He is watching the pennies. Yeah. How's the service been since switching? I can tell you, I put it to a test because I live in a canyon and service is, you know, usually drops out like mad and I haven't had any dropouts. So that's pretty cool. That's a good stress test being in a canyon. Yeah. Like literally canyon. Literally. You're at the bottom of this huge. Not huge, but you know, uh, big enough to, are you trying to get me to tell you where I live? Can you post the address on the screen? Let's yeah. Let's get Ted's address up there. For a limited time, you can sign up with consumer Cellular and save $50 with promo code TED50.

Visit ConsumerCellular.com slash TED50 or call 1-888-FREEDOM and mention promo code TED50. That's ConsumerCellular.com slash TED50. Promo code TED50. Terms and conditions apply. Savings based on consumer cellular single-line 1, 5, and 10 gigabyte data plan with unlimited talk and text compared to T-Mobile and Verizon's lowest-cost single-line post-paid unlimited talk, text, and data plans, January 2024. My mind's flicking through all the different things I've seen. Jiminy Glick, to me, I cannot, that's the one thing that I cannot watch you do. And I think I did one with you. Yes, you did. And our job was to be slightly befuddled by you, but being straight, you know, and being straight. Not cracking up was the hardest thing. That's an example of you living in, a character living in that world so thoroughly.

That's the strangest character probably I did. Because when I would do like, you know, Ed Grimley in Saturday Night Live, it was all very written. And oh my say, you know, it was all specific. And, but Jiminy Glick was all improvised. And I would find myself saying expressions I'd never said in my life.

I take great umbrage. And then I'd say, what does that even mean? Where did I hear that once in my life? And the range, the high octave beginning of the sentence. And also, Dave Foley from Kids in the Hall said, what I love about that character, Marty, is that you've created a character who is as mean as you really are in life.

Who said that? Dave Foley from Kids in the Hall. Did you ever interview a politician, Jiminy Glick? Or were they all celebrities? I think they were all celebrities. They were all celebrities? I think they were all celebrities. They were all celebrities. You know, and we would shoot, you know, at times two 10-minute passes, and then we'd edit it all down. I remember Alec Baldwin, you know, did one pass,

and then we took a second break, and they adjust a mic or something, and Alec said, ask me about women. And so I said, did you know Dianne Feinstein? And he'd say, oh, listen, when she's banging at your door at three in the morning, every woman I mentioned, he'd had an affair with. And it was the funniest, funniest, funniest moment. We do have several things in common. One is Godspell. Yes. You were in Godspell?

Yes. For a week. Let me guess who you played. Judas. Thanks, but no. Second or fourth clown from the left. Herb. They had names, you know.

Not yet. Because I was at Carnegie Mellon University. Oh, my God. John Michael Teblak. You were in the earliest stages. Earliest, earliest. Oh, that's insane. And it was not just by my...

I don't sing by myself in a shower. I must have been beaten in a previous lifetime. I don't sing by myself in a shower. I must have been beaten in a previous lifetime. I don't sing. And when people sing to me or I see a nice Western like Oklahoma, all of a sudden the guy with the pistol on his hip starts to sing. It makes me nuts. Yeah. So I'm very, I go into this Godspell moment with a lot of, you know, judgment and all that.

And it, but it was bad. It was really bad. You should explain to Ted that Godspell started off as a thesis. A master's, yeah. Master's thesis. Yeah. So Stephen Schwartz. Right.

And John Michael Teblak. Stephen Schwartz, who would go on to do, you know, Pippin and Wicked, et cetera, et cetera. And brilliant, brilliant guy. And that was their thesis. And then they put it on the Cherry Lane Theater eventually, and it became this massive hit. All my friends went with it and made a small at that moment. Rob Lamont.

Yeah, Rob. Yeah, and then in March of 72, they auditioned for the first company that was going to do a national tour because it was such a hit in New York. Now they realized they should do a national tour and we were going to play Toronto, Boston, and Chicago. But it was such a hit in Toronto, it just stayed in Toronto. And that cast, and Stephen Schworts was like 24, 25. And he cast people who had never done anything.

Who was your Jesus? Victor Garber. And Gilda Radner. Andrea Martin. Eugene Levy. People who stayed in your life forever. That's amazing.

Stephen Nathan, who went on to be a really well-known writer and does a lot of half-hour writing and stuff was our jesus uh but here's my deal i uh about four days in and i just so I was horrible and it was a mess right up until it kind of gelled the opening night and blew the roof off and everyone realized this is magnificent but third day of rehearsal I got Bell's palsy which is wow which is where you kind of draw a line down your face and one half of your face and it lasts for how long? Unfortunately, I went to the library and researched it. It's like 87% will come back. It'll be fine.

Yeah. So it lasted for me for about six weeks. Wow. But my reaction to having lost half my face while hoping to become an actor was, oh, thank God I'm out of this turkey. Bell's palsy, do they have a shot for that? I think what I did was take cortisone tablets. No, but I mean a preventative shot. No, it's like a virus that hits this nerve channel.

No, I know. I have a few friends that have had it and came back. Yeah. Well, some don't that we know and who are wonderful actors and all that. Then they go into character work. Yes.

I had to take my paralyzed size in a smile at night so that it wouldn't sag more. And I was married, so it was a real treat for my wife. Yeah, you must have been a sexy guy. Yeah, sexy guy. So that was your second audition, right? My first was for, I got very hot right at the beginning. You know, I decided to, Eugene Levy talked me into taking a year off university.

I'd done four years. I was doing a master's in social work, McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario. And he talked me into, he said, you know, because we'd done plays together. I'd done a lot of theater. And he said, you should, you know, take a year and try this as an actor. And I was very hesitant because I'd never left the stepping, you know, stones of education. And I thought to myself, well, I must do this so that I can look in the mirror at 50 and I can say, why didn't you ever try acting? And then you can go, oh yeah, I did try acting and no one hired me. So my first edition was a

talking visa card inside a woman's purse and I got it. It was a commercial. That was in March 17, 1972. I'm a bit of a rain man with dates and then on march 25th i was at the callback edition so i'd i've been called back for godspell in toronto masonic temple and it was like 400 people it was like american idol they kept whittling it down and they finally whittled it down to these 10. i remember gilda got up. I'd never met Gilda. And she was wearing bib overalls and pigtails on either side and sang Zippity-Doo-Dah. And I thought, oh, that poor thing. That's the saddest thing. And they went, you're hired. And I went, oh, I got to rethink because I'm singing my funny Valentine. I could be off on this. But she'd seen the show in New York.

She knew what they were looking for. And was it dialogue or was it just singing? The first was singing. And then if you made that cut, then you were asked to go off with a group of seven and improvise a parable, one of the parables. And I luckily, in my group, was Eugene Levy. So he kind of directed and took over because he's a brilliant writer. Took over the whole thing. Marty, no, you do.

No, Marty, do Ed Sullivan. And he really. And so we kind of killed our group. And were you still at McMaster? Yeah, I still had exams to go. So I had to commute between rehearsals and writing my finals for my fourth year. How long did that run in Toronto with you in it? A year.

I did a year. The show ran for a year and three months or something. Yeah, it was amazing. It went. Yeah, it was a big, big, big hit. Every high school. And then, you know Donnie Scardino? Yes.

He replaced Victor because Victor right away, within six weeks, they cast him as the lead in the movie. So he was now gone. Right. And then Don took over. With my friend David Haskell, who played Judas. Yeah. Then Don would later do it in New York.

Right. Yeah. But now this wasn't you dabbling, not dabbling, but saying, I should give this a try, isn't out of the blue. Because reading the book, you were in your bedroom at an early age. Oh, I had a full fantasy. I had contracts, imaginary contracts with NBC. I was allowed to do it. I had a primetime show in my head on NBC every other week.

Not every week. Every other week so that it left time for my film career, my imaginary film career. I was 14, 15, 16. I would write things up for TV Guide and highlights, and I had an applause tape, so I had the reel-to-reel tape, and I had another tape recorder, and I would sing an opening, you know, songs that weren't nominated. And then I'd click and I'd hit applause and ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Tony Bennett and Tony and I played Tony

and I put them all together. But what was amazing about my childhood was that my mother was a concert violinist. So she was a musician and first female concert master of a symphony in North America. And she would adjudicate these things. She would like, listen. Like I made an album at 15 called Martin Short Sings of Songs and Loves Ago. And it was basically Sinatra's September of my years album, but I'd have to sing in his keys. So I'd click, and it'd be the orchestra introduction, Nelson Riddle. Click. One time you turn around,

because it's too low for me. But my mother, I remember finishing the album, and I still have the notes of her saying, well sung, a little pitchy, three stars out of five. Very nice, lovely melody. there's a different song you know so no one was laughing at me no one was saying he's nuts siblings how did my brother michael i used to have a rocking chair that oh the arm always broke and i had a thing of glue that i'd glue it and he once said he could be sniffing glue because he's really, you know, kids are playing, you know, on the street.

They're playing road hockey. And I'm in my room going, weather-wise, such a cuckoo day. You know, it's not normal. But it was to me. Michael, who went on to become. Michael Short, my God. My brother was a writer for SCTV before I joined it. He's won many Emmys.

And then he went on to write everything from Mad TV to Schitt's Creek. All right, before you lock yourself in the room and are doing this kind of thing, what was, like, 6, 7, 8, 9 like? I grew up in the country. I jumped on horses and would go play and come back. Mine was a very, my father was a big executive at the Canadian Steel Company, general sales manager.

So he was very mad men, the white shirt. Traveled a lot. He'd go out west for five weeks, but mainly at home. He was Irish, born and raised in Cross McGlenn County, Armagh. So he always had his big meal as an executive at the office. And so by six, he'd come home and we would eat at six, but he would sit in the room. There'd be a nook over there.

He'd sit over here with his gin and ginger, reading the newspaper and criticizes. Marty, don't shovel the food in like an animal did. To take it one, but one time he got up. It's odd. They can't see, but he got up and stood beside Michael's. Michael, keep eating. I'll make sure the dogs

don't get at you. You know. Hilariously sarcastic. And times I would do glick and think, whoa, who's that? Oh, it's Channeling Chuck. Oh, boy, yep. But it was very, in summers in Southampton, Ontario, and I'm very kind of. What is that, on a lake? Yeah, on a lake here on a beautiful, beautiful beach.

And it was kind of great. It was kind of, you know, it was dinners at the country club. It was kind of that world. Right. And is it okay to ask your brother, what was his name who passed away? David. And you were how old? I was 12 and he was 26.

He was the greatest, greatest guy. He was very handsome, looked like Paul Newman. And he, you know, he was just the coolest, funniest guy. He was very handsome, looked like Paul Newman. And he, you know, he was just the coolest, funniest guy. And I remember I would, like, I was so excited when he would come home from Toronto when he, where he was working, or he was working in Montreal in the last years of his life. And he would come home and I would be like six, because he was 14 years older. So I would get into his bed when he was, he had probably gotten in about two hours earlier. And instead of kicking me out like most older brothers would, he would play giant with me so that he would have a pillow under his arm and I would have to steal the pillow from the giant without waking him.

And it was his way of just getting a few more hours, you know. Yeah. He was a great guy. And he was in a car accident and it devastated our family. Devastated our family. I remember. Sorry, you were how old when that happened? Twelve. Twelve.

Yeah. Wow. I remember I used to say nightly prayers, Catholic family. And after that, I would never say, dear God, and please let me pass my history exam. Because I accepted at that point, there is no way if there is a God, he's saying you'll survive and you won't. No, no. Maybe this is an experimental place. And if you get to do well, you go to another level, like, you know you know millionaire but um not he's not making so now i would change it dear god give me the strength give me the strength to do well

my history exam you know that that's pretty smart at an early age to get that right which is in my point of view is right yeah i mean it I mean, it just, you can't. It's impossible. Yeah. I remember watching when my mother passed away, she chose to come home instead of being in a hospital with pneumonia and everything. And we had a week of kind of this free offer meds

because why bother? She was coming home to die willingly and joyfully in her mind. But then last week, she really started to disappear. And I remember I'd have the night watch because my sister didn't like missing her sleep, so she'd do day, I'd do night. And I remember sitting there when she was no longer really surfacing anymore and going, all of my reading or my Zen or my whatever spiritual, philosophical thing I had studied or dabbled in or whatever

went flying out the window. And I was just left with, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. She might. She might be about to, but I don't know. I have no idea. And that's kind of stuck with me. I hope that she did, you know, that there was some sense of that. You'd like to think. I, yes. I mean, we don't have to get really woo-woo. Yeah, I know. But Mary and I have had experiences, some of them led by interesting people. But Mary especially, I think I'm a little thick-headed or something,

but Mary has had so many different astounding moments where her father would be hard-p pressed for you to come up with a different explanation right there was some communication you know yeah i don't i've often wondered if it's like the peter pan syndrome you know that if you believe therefore it happens and if you don't believe in it it doesn't happen but isn't that the truth anyway in life? I mean, I'm listening to you talk about you were believing on some level up there in your room at 12 with your, you know, making tapes and stuff. You manifested. You'd have to say that there was something magical about you believing in something to the point that it happened. Yes, except that— Well, I mean, yeah, but again, when I was doing my

show, again, 14, 15, 16, not 16, by 16, there were girls, but 14, 15, I was heavily into my show business world. And I would say that I never thought it was a realistic thing. I never thought, like, you would think if I'd grown up in Manhattan and I was doing that, or even if you had a kid doing that, you'd say, okay, well, he's off to Tisch, is he? Or he's doing some theater school. Because I was in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, it seemed totally unrealistic to be in show business.

I never watched Canadian television, so I only watched American television. I watched NBC, CBS, and ABC through Buffalo. And it was like watching stuff on Neptune. I never thought that I could ever be in show business, so I wanted to be a doctor. And I went into pre-meds only because I love, I still think it's the most admirable profession. And I was a fan of, but I realized

when I was in pre-meds that I didn't care about science. I was just a fan of Richard Chamberlain's work and Dr. Kildare, and that wasn't enough to get you there, you know. But something you must have at least recognized when it did come around with you jane or wherever that oh this is why i switched from pre-meds to social working that gave me more time to do then i started doing a lot of theater my third and fourth year at mcmaster and i just adored it i just loved it so much so no it was something i but i remember you know gildan i dated for a couple of years. And I remember being in her house.

And Paul Schaefer was the first of our group to go down to New York. And he was going to do, he was doing the magic show, playing in the magic show. Again, Stephen Schwartz wrote it. And I remember we were both on the phone listening to Paul. And Gilda said, Paul, what are New York actors like? And Paul said, well,

I don't know, maybe I'm prejudiced. I think you guys are just as talented. And we got off the phone and think, oh, that's so sweet. God bless him, not believing it because we were in Canada. We just felt how do we make that?

And that was before the massive Canadian invasion. I was about to say, that was before Saturday Night Live. Yeah, and then when Saturday Night Live and suddenly, you know, Danny, Aykroyd and all these, everyone. And where were they at that point in Canada? Well, in 1972, I did God's Love of 72, 73, and now I'm living in Toronto, and I'm in show business, and I don't have to do exams anymore. I'm not in school anymore.

And it was bursting with Danny was, you know, he was always around, John Candy. In some formal setting? Yeah. What do you mean, stand-up? No, I remember Danny was always working on his car. always around john candy in some formal setting yeah i mean well stand up or no i i remember danny was always working on his car he was going to be a mountie at one point a cop and uh and john i met later on when and then second city formed a sister company that end of that year in 73 in toronto and then all these people joe flaherty and brian doyle murray and the murray brothers all these people, Joe Flaherty and Brian Doyle Murray and the Murray brothers, all these people became part of your world.

Was Belushi there at that point? I didn't know John. No. He was Chicago second seed. Oh, right. Sorry. I met him once, but that was it. Yeah.

Interesting. Yeah. But it was this kind of Paris in the 20s feel of Toronto. And then Lorne, I met Lorne backstage of Godspell when he saw it. He came up to Toronto. He lived in Toronto.

He had a very hip CBC show called The Lorne and Hart Terrific Hour. And he was a performer on it and writer. And then he went to Hollywood and wrote, you know, got involved in laughing and then Paul Simon specials and worked for the Phyllis Diller show. I didn't know that.

I always imagined he was some New York guy. No, no, no, no. He's from Toronto. First Hill, yeah. And in fact, the first person he cast, talk about going back to God's world, the first person he cast for SNL was Gilda Radner. Makes good sense. Yeah.

Who else? Do you know the origin of that? Then he cast Danny Ackroyd, and then it was Chevy and John and Lorraine and that brilliant group. And when did you go to Saturday Night Live? Well, then 10 years later, I joined SCTV in 1982. And I did that for two and a half years. And then went to SNL as a cast member, 84, 85 season. Brought in with, to save the day.

Brought in with Billy Crystal, Christopher Guest, Harry Shearer, Rich Hall. And almost brought in as a package, right? Was it Don Omeyer or no? No, it was Dick Ambersol. It was the Lauren that for five years. Right. Before Lauren came back. And

you know, I remember getting a call from Bob Tischler, who was his producer I knew, and he said, we want you to be in Saturday Night Live. And I just finished SCTV, and we just leased a house in L.A., and we had a little baby. And I thought, I don't want to do it. And they said, well, we're going after Billy Crystal and Christopher Guest. And I thought, well, call me back if you get them.

And then they called back, they're in. And so I was surprised at the press conference. You know, they hadn't announced me yet. And yeah, we launched into it. It was... Maybe you didn't have carte blanche, but it felt like you guys... I think we were treated very well.

Because you had a one-year contract. Because we were writers. We had one-year contracts. And Rollins and Joffrey had negotiated big salaries for Billy and me. And uniquely, it was really treated. I think Ebersole used to call it the George Steinbrenner year, where you pay a little extra for ballplayers, give them kind of the contract they want.

Because they didn't know this was the 10th season of SNL if it was going to survive. They were not sure. Even the wig department, they rented wigs each season. You know, I mean, it was like Lorne had done the first five, and then Jean Domanian took over from Lorne, and that was a struggle, and Dick Ebersole replaced her. And then they had booming years with Eddie Murphy and Joe Piscopo and the likes.

But now they were leaving, and they kind of felt, ooh, this is precarious here. We need some ringers. So that was the first time where people had, I mean, I'd done SCTV already. Billy had his own variety show on NBC at that time. Normally, when you start at SNL, to this day, you've never done anything. Publicly. I mean,

as far as the public knows. Who makes you laugh? Oh, I'm an easy laugh. I'm an easy laugh. I'm an easy laugh. I mean, as a kid, it was Jerry Lewis and Jonathan Winters, Nichols and May, Lucy, Jackie Gleason, Honeymooners, still to this day, I think it's a miracle, Art Carney. And you were so physical in your comedy. Mm-hmm.

Was there someone you looked up to? I would say Jerry Lewis and certainly Adam Costello. Yeah. Laurel and Hardy. Yeah.

Um, I remember as a 10-year-old seeing a revival in a, in a movie theater that they re-released The Gold Rush

with Chaplin. I was, I worked on doing the potato dance as a 10-year-released The Gold Rush with Chaplin. I worked on doing the potato dances, a 10-year-old, you know, with the forks. But through the years, I have worked with the funniest people in the world. I mean, you know, look at the cast of SCTV. Andrea Martin, Catherine O'Hara, Dave Thomas,

Eugene Levy, Rick Moranis. Yeah. Joe Flaherty. Insane. John Candy. And then I move on to SNL, and now I'm with Christopher Guest and Billy Crystal and Harry Shearer. I mean, and it just has continued on. And then, you know, let's not leave out a little fellow named Steve Martin.

These people really make me laugh. Yeah, me too. Christopher Guest is the driest of them all, you know. One time he said, I was making a film with Captain Ron, he said, Martin, what is this film about? I said, well, I play a man who has two children who inherits a boat. He said, I didn't say spoil it for me.

I can never quite tell if Chris is pissed at me, could care less at me, or finds me funny. He is so dry. No one's funnier. But boy, has he made some of my favorite movies. I forgot you were in Captain Ron with good friends. With Kurt.

Kurt, who remained friends. Kurt and Goldie. Throughout life. So I've been very, very lucky to work with really the funniest people. Albert Brooks. I mean, geez. I don't work with Albert. I just, you know, he's a friend and an admirer.

Right. I'm an admirer. Larry David. Oh, Larry. I'm leaving out Larry. I just had dinner with. Larry David. Oh, Larry. I'm leaving. I just had dinner with Larry last night. He says, hello.

We had dinner. Oh, so yeah. Yeah. Larry, who, whose social norm, the trouble with the success of curb is it allowed Larry to be more Larry.

It gave him license to be more Larry. I remember going out to dinner, arranging to go out to dinner with him. It was, I don't know, Pete Fairley, Woody, Harrelson, and myself on the vineyard. Let's meet. It was his idea.

It was, you know, Larry's idea. We get there early so we don't keep him waiting. And the maitre d' says, oh, your friend Larry's here. He was there early so we don't keep him waiting. And the maitre d' says, oh, your friend Larry's here. He was finishing up his entree because he had decided that something more interesting for him had come along. Said, hey, great to see you. No, forgive me, or whatever just up and left that's larry yeah oh so so so you know yeah you also know that whatever you're doing or it could become fodder for next week's show absolutely yeah oh he always remember he had that little book he'd pull out if something weird happened at dinner party

you'd see him just writing something you know yeah Yeah. That's part of it. And the story he told you, you couldn't quite tell whether, was this a real story or are we trying out material? Yeah. Yeah. And then his laugh. Ay, ay, ay, ay, ay, ay, ay. He is the most generous laughter. A lot of.

Oh, absolutely. A lot of stand-ups don't, aren't generous with their laugh. You know, I wouldn't, I guess he's a stand-up. I mean, I met Larry when I was a cast member on SNL. And he was a writer. And he'd write about three scenes a week and they'd never select him.

And then it became a Seinfeld episode where he got in a big fight with Dick Ebersole and quit after the party and then walked home and realized, I can't quit. I need money. So he just showed up with money. Hey, everybody. I couldn't believe it.

And because it was such a volatile place, no one cared. Ebersole totally got it. He didn't care. That's funny. Didn't he have the reputation of doing stand-up in New York, and if the audience didn't please him or something, he'd say, You're idiots. Yeah, and walk off.

Walk off. Yeah. How stupid are you? Yeah. Can I backtrack to you meeting Nancy? It was Godspell, right? She was, yeah. She had now been running.

We opened in June, and there were 200 studies, and then in October, she had worked with Victor. She had done this show called Canadian Rock Theater, where they basically did Godspell songs and Jesus Christ Superstars, and they'd, Jesus Christ Superstar,

and they'd toured the States and worked in Vegas and that kind of thing. Anyway, she auditioned and got in as the understudy. So she was now the understudy to Gilda, who I was now living with. And that's when I first met Nancy. And she was so beautiful. She scared us all. Because she had an antique clothing store and also because she

i think smuggled in clothes from buffalo or something and she would come in long joni mitchell blonde hair with wearing kind of a velvet cape and sign it oh no one's sick and she'd sign it and all the guys hi hi nancy And that was it. And then about, so that would be like 72. In 74, Gilda and I broke up. We always were breaking up. And nothing with Nancy? No, no, no. Even a glimmer in your eye?

Nothing before? Well, yeah, but I thought she was out of my league. Right. And then, and I love Gilda. And then, but I love Gilda. And then, but we kind of, it seemed like we were kaput.

And then the next day I'm at the Pilot restaurant bar and there was Nancy and we got talking and she said, we made, let's play tennis tomorrow. And that was it. I remember Gilda phoning him and saying, you're with Nancy, we're supposed to get back together. She said, yeah, you know, it was fast. We're supposed to get back together. Right.

Yeah, you know. It was fast. I thought it was like, I'm 24. I'm a single boy. One day, one day, I was single. What was your wooing technique? Do you make them laugh and then you know you're in? I remember we played tennis and Nancy had just broken up with her boyfriend who was a rocker

and I remember at tennis kind of say hey have you ever tried a comedian something like that not good and then I remember the first night we made love we checked into the

which then became the Four Seasons Hotel in Toronto it was the Hyatt then. And I was 24 and I looked about 16 and Nancy was 21. And no, 22. We were a year and a half apart. And we checked into the, basically the Four Seasons. I was wearing cut off jeans and a t-shirt. And Nancy was wearing cut off jeans jeans and a t-shirt. And Nancy was wearing cut-off jeans and

like a halter top. And I said, my wife and I would like a room, please. And the guy behind the desk burst out laughing. He just burst out laughing. That's fantastic. And from that moment on, you were together. Yeah. For 30 years? No, married. Mar for 30 years no together married uh married 30 lived together six right yeah wow and never a packed bag never a you know to hell with you no oh god what i what did i read um nancy asked you something or was It was a moment of you guys were pissed or something. Yeah. But you weren't being communicative, so she— So let me talk to Ed Grimley.

Yes. Yeah. And that was for real. That was not a bit you all did. Oh, yeah, no, that was always a bit. We would have fights all the time, you know. Right. I remember she'd say, okay, why are you screaming?

I said, okay, yeah, okay, I'm screaming. Yeah, I'm screaming. But let me ask you something. If you're standing at the edge of a cliff and someone pushes you off the cliff, as you're going down, you go, ah! But isn't it the person who pushed you off the cliff? Isn't it their also fault?

But sometimes she always knew that Ed would always be on her side. I'd say, Nan, you're wrong in this. She said, I don't want to talk. Let me talk to Ed. Oh, Miss Nancy, how stupid is he, I must say. He doesn't understand you. And I would, that would diffuse the argument. But did you also allow that to actually be more truthful? Ed could be more truthful? No, no, no. It was time to. No, it was a bit. If it was a real, you know. Right. Real argument, then... Then it wouldn't happen.

Then it would be discussed. But this is now like... A nice ending. You know, like kind of diffusing. Ed would diffuse. It's like Matlock, you know. No, what does that refer... I mean, I know Matlock, but...

Well, I'm thinking of Will Forte when he would... Oh, oh. Matlock, who was he? He was always getting the bombs. MacGruber, thank you very much. MacGruber. Edit that out, make me sound hipper. So then you were the cute couple, married couple,

until when did you decide to have kids? 19, you know, 81. And what were you doing professionally at that point? I was in SCTV, 82. Right. It seemed more settled. Right. And your first child? Catherine.

Catherine. And then Oliver. Right. And then Oliver. Right. And then baby Henry. Who are now... They are now... Isn't that astounding? I now have three grandsons.

Oh, that's amazing. How old? Theo will be four in January, and then Grayson is two in four months, and Campbell just turned two. It's so amazing. Mary's daughter Lily, who you know, has three granddaughters, 12, 10, and six. Unbelievable. It is unbelievable. It's like, I was, I don't know, 12 years ago, whatever I was, 63 or something. I was just starting to get a smidge grumpy about aging. Just, you know, I'm not crazy about this arthritis

or whatever was setting in. And then the first grandchild arrives and it's like, oh, fuck it. I'm in. I don't care anything anymore about my little this and that. I so want to be around this. It's so magical. Absolutely. And they love you.

They love you, these grandkids, because you represent this kind of, you know, I love explaining to my grandkids that, see, Oliver, I'm his dad. And so Papa is, you know, their eyes are big, you know yeah and you and you do get to hand them back that's a cliche but it is true you don't have to be you're you're not on the front lines as much as absolutely kids are which gives you that distance to be almost i find myself almost like an anthropologist going oh my god look at this you're their brains now are able to do this and do that. And when you're in it as a father, as a parent, it's just too immediate to have any distance. Yeah, I know. It's one of our great joys. And Mary always said when she tells people how amazing it is to be a grandmother, she

can almost see in their eyes, if they're not grandparents yet, well, didn't you enjoy your kids? You know, you're so in love with your grandkids. You know, it's no. You can love your kids through the roof. Yeah. But there's something different and wonderful. And then I know couples who are just saying, oh, my God, I'm just dying to become grandparents.

My kids won't have kids yet. Yeah. I sometimes say, magic wand, what are you going to be doing? What would you like to be doing five years from now? Do you have, do you have, you have done so much? I kind of,

you know, I've always led an eclectic career. It's very Canadian, you know, meaning what? Well, I mean, in the sense that you just worked,

you do, you could do Shakespeare and CBC in the, in the afternoon and then do a cabaret show. What's a nice country like you doing in a state like this at night or second city? There's no right or wrong career wise. There was no, it was just, do I bring a suit? There was no, you know, is it good for your career? No, I'm in television. No, I'm in film. It was just, so it was like university. It's like England too. And so I have continued that, you know, so, you know, I'll go from Broadway to television to film.

And it's great because when they don't watch anymore in film, you say, oh, well, then I'll do television. And then they don't watch in television. Oh, and I'll do Broadway. Oh, they watch in film again. And it, but it makes for a very interesting career. So I, you know, my health is very good. I am, in five years, I would like to think I'm still doing all this.

I don't think actors should retire. You know, I think that's, I don't know how great retirement is for anyone if they love what they do. Right. If you hate your job, then great, retire. But Laura Michaels, for example, is a big believer in not retiring. Phil Hines, who did lighting for, I did a summer series with Maya Rudolph a few years ago. He was in his like 93 or something. And he had done SNL from the beginning, and he was still lighting our show.

That's my dream. I want to find out what it's like to be i am not stupid comparison but i am basically an actor character actor who's been blessed to be around amazing writers who are very very funny people and i can be funny with their amazing funny world words if I am on my game so to say I want to be funny is talking to you feels like I want to say I do understand that I'm a character actor yeah yeah we are but anyway I want to know what it's like to be funny at 75, 76. I'm about to turn 76 and I'm about to work with Mike Schur who did The Good Place. Yeah. And I can't wait to see what that's like. I want the full money.

I want to know what it's like to do that when I'm 80. you know age is is such an odd last hurrah of of ageism is the last hurrah that hasn't been broken yet but if you surround yourself with funny people i like i mean i'm good friends with bill hater yeah who could be my son i'm very good friends with john Mulaney, who could be, you know, my son. But when we're together, there's no sense of age at all. No, I find myself, I don't compete with my fellow actors. I compete with people in their 30s. Because I know it's hopeless, but it will amuse me hugely. So I will always try to fuck with John Krasinski and challenge him to impossible foot races and whatever. Just the joy of being around people younger than you. And you do reach a status.

I don't know if you have, where people are starting to take care of me just a little bit. And first, I haven't reached that point. No one cares less. I can understand why. But it's like, I can see people going, oh,

okay. All right. Can I help? Let me lift that. Let me lift that. And at first it's like that competitive, Hey, I'm still in the race here.

You know? Oh yeah. Like on an airplane yeah yeah i'll have you yeah i'll get that for you mr sure thank you thank you i've eased into it and kind of enjoy it see steve always says martin always says that the time he'd contemplate retiring is when his voice becomes a quivery yes then you know that's different but when you still look and sound like steve martin yeah you're going nowhere how are you in public how are you walking around the world in public with your fame celebrity oh i've gone through

all different phases uh you know sometimes people come in can i I have a selfie? I'm sorry, I don't do that. Why? What? Because I don't do it. Five minutes later, you're still on the street. And then I realized, oh, just take the selfie. Hi, thank you. How are you doing? Yeah.

Smile. Thank you. No takes much longer. Way longer. Yeah. And what's it about anyway? Yeah. You know.

Yeah. And what's it about anyway? Yeah. You know. Yeah. So, you don't sneak, well, how do you travel? Just effortlessly wherever you want. Private? Commercial. No, I'm kidding. I, no, I, you know, I just kind of keep moving. Yeah. You know, it's interesting.

I'll wear like a hat and sunglasses and stuff. And then I'll go to this, say, do you have a New York Times? And my voice gives me away. Yes, it's interesting i'll wear like a hat and sunglass and stuff and then i'll go to this say uh do you have a new york times and my voice yes it's the voice it's the voice you have an opportunity to have dinner with hang with whatever who would it be you know i mean i always want to have dinner with marlon brando he's not here you know um why just to oh because he's such a just to be in that presence of that genius right insane i'm trying to think i mean i've been you know i had a dinner a couple years ago with the obamas and that was like on a wish list that was spectacular did you get past the oh my gosh part and really get to kind of quietly hang? Yes, absolutely, yeah.

I got to ask him. I remember I asked him at one point, there's always a fire somewhere in the world. How do you turn that off? How do you do it? What did he say? That's a good question. It is a good question.

And it was a struggle at the beginning. Yeah. But that's kind of like a guy that... I'll tell you who I knew for 25 years, and I always pinch myself that I can't believe I'm with him in his company. It was Mike Nichols. I read that. Yeah.

That was just... Your first meeting was? Oh, I don't know. To hire you? No, no, no. I never worked with him i just knew him socially and uh in the 80s probably the premier of three amigos or something like that but he was always so funny to me and again i'm that 11 year old listening to nichols and may on broadway or 12 and um i've said this before but it just, it exactly showed how fast he was. One time we were at an art opening, and he said, where are you staying?

I said, the Essex house. He said, no, but really. And what I loved about Mike is that that would make him laugh. He knew that was funny. Yeah. You just mentioned Three Amigos. Yeah. Which is right up there with one of my favorite funny movies.

Where did you shoot that? In Mexico or no? No, in Tucson. Tucson. Arizona and then Simi Valley. Right. It was that perfect combination of outrageously silly, funny, and then the bad guys were brilliant.

Brilliant. Well, that was kind of John Landis making it look like The Magnificent Seven while at the same time. Yeah. And Elmer Bernstein doing the score, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, you know, making it like a big classic. Yeah. The, you know, 50s movie. Yeah. With CinemaScope, but then with Steve's writing.

That was written by Steve, Randy Newman, and Lorne. Wow. Yeah. Randy Newman as in dialogue, not... He came up, I think he came up, Steve would, may I correct me on this? I believe he came up with the singing Bush, Randy, and wrote those fabulous songs. Arizona moon keeps shining, you know.

Wow, Marty. I really appreciate sitting down with you like this. It's a delight, I'll do anything. I'll even drive to, you know. Yeah, why did you come do a podcast? You don't have anything you're pitching. No, it's just you. It was you.

I wish we had gotten to this right away. No, it's true. You know I adore you, Ted. I have for years. I do. And I apologize for all the times I have put you too high on a pedestal and did my bullshit, who am I, routine. And I have done that to you. And it's such a fucking waste.

That's what put one, you know. I know. And it's false. It is false. It's totally false. Totally. My false ego is bullshit. There's a big ego.

Yeah. It's you and Donald. Because there's a big ego. Yeah. It's you and Donald. You're right up there together. Interchangeable. Can we cut that one too? You know, it is such a privilege to be able to sit down and talk with people like this for an hour, an hour and a half. I am so grateful that I got to spend this time with Marty Short. Thank you, Marty, for being here.

Be sure to watch Only Murders in the Building. And Woody, I miss you. I will see you soon. If you like this week's show, please tell a friend and subscribe. And leave us an Apple Podcast rating if you're in the mood. If you're not, please don't. See you right back here next week where everybody knows your name. You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson, sometimes.

The show is produced by me, Nick Liao. Executive producers are Adam Sachs, Colin Anderson, Jeff Ross, and myself. Sarah Federovich is our supervising producer. Our senior producer is Matt Apodaca. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez. Research by Alyssa Graw. Talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista. Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Gann, Mary Steenburgen, and John Osborne.

Special thanks to Willie Navarro. We'll have more for you next time, where everybody knows your name. Consumer Cellular offers the same fast, reliable nationwide coverage without the big wireless cost. Freedom calls. Sign up with Consumer Cellular at consumercellular.com slash TED50 and use promo code TED50 to save $50. Terms and conditions apply.