Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson (sometimes) - Stephen Merchant

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

Actor, writer, and director Stephen Merchant talks to Ted Danson about the influence of Cheers on The Office (UK), his awkward relationship with fame, his dramatic turn in Four Lives, testing out new standup material, John Cleese, and more. Plus: Ted raves about Outlaws, Stephen’s crime thriller comedy series.To help those affected by the Southern California wildfires, make a donation to World Central Kitchen today.Like watching your podcasts? Visit http://youtube.com/teamcoco to see full episodes. 

It's very, very hard to do anything well and to do something well where you also need to have laughs every 10 seconds. That's really tough. Really hard. Welcome back to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes. Today I'm with a multi-talented comedian, actor, writer, director. His name is Stephen Merchant and you know him from his work on The Office, Extras, Hello Ladies, and he's done dramatic work, stage work. Last night I devoured, what to me was outlaws and it's just delightful. It's funny and scary and just very engaging so Can't wait for you to check that out. He is a super smart delightful human being here's Stephen Merchant

I had the best time with you on The Good Place. So much fun. So much fun. How did they get you? Did you know about the show? I knew about the show and also you just did admire Mike Shear as well from his work on The Office. Of course, you knew each other then. I'm sorry.

I think there was probably a begging email from Mike. Yeah, for sure. I can't remember. But it was, no, I was, I loved the show and it was a pleasure to be asked and to work with you as well was, it was, it was definitely, uh, was definitely one of the impulses. That's why I asked the question.

Okay. I can relax now. Yeah. Well, we can talk. I mean, we can talk at length if you want about what an impact Cheers had on the office in terms of the conception, the writing, you know, but we don't have to hear English, the English version. And in a sense, the DNA of the English version was in the American one.

And, um, they definitely, I remember when I was working with Ricky on the British version, it became a conversation because, and people often say to me, like, what's the difference between American comedy and British comedy? And in British comedy, traditionally, there's often been a sort of built in bleakness that we're kind of willing as a British audience to accept and to sort of indulge. Whereas American comedy, traditionally, American sitcom was seen as being brighter and kind of a bit more optimistic. And yet if you pull back, you know, a couple of

the layers of the characters in cheers, they are sad people, right? You know, norm with that kind of sort of hates his job and, and has this kind of this loveless marriage, it seems. And, and, you know, um, and your character's in, oh, obviously a recovering alcoholic and they're all. And who will never be with any woman.

Would never be with a woman and be happy. And so, and you can do that with all, you know, Carla, all of them have that. There's a saddest, and if you took it or if you took the audience laughter and the jokes out, it would be a sort of bleak existential play about, you know, kind of sad lives. A bunch of losers.

Yeah. And so Norm, for instance, was a big influence on the character of Tim, played by Martin Freeman in the British version that Jim John Krasinski in the American one. That idea of a guy who found himself in a job that wasn't his dream and is kind of doing things to get through the day, you know what I mean? Rather than sort of change anything in his life. And the idea of the sort of sardonic put downs as a way of sort of dealing with, you know,

what feels really like a kind of bleak existential existence of like, what is my purpose in life? And so I know that sounds very heavy, but it's sort of, I suppose what we, you know, we took some of those elements and because we didn't have an audience laugh track, can we sort of let the awkward silences sit. A lot of that pathos and sort of sadness that was inherent in a show like Cheers came

to the fore, at least in the British version of the, of the show, you know? Right. And also I guess that idea of the sort of surrogate family, right? The idea of people in an environment who have become almost like a family, in your case, because of the bar and our case, because of an office, but they don't, they have nothing else in common, right? Except their, their proximity to that, to each other in that, in that space. How long did America get to see your version before, uh, the American version of the office

came out? I would imagine there were like 14 people that saw it. No, I was one of. Yeah. And I think probably within a couple of years of our version, it was on American screens. Yeah. I know you were executive producing.

Did you guys write the pilot or not? No, they based the first season of the American version loosely on our, on our seasons and, um, and we did write an episode later, um, but no, they were pretty much, you know, the American team was sort of often the races. Actual storylines. It kind of loosely, but I think the more in a way, the more they got away from our version from season two onwards, I think the more it found its own groove and the more it's appeal went, partly because I think they did, they dialed back some of that bleakness.

I remember seeing the pilot of the American version, Steve Carell, and he was not Ricky acerbic, but close, adjacent. And then I don't know if it was when they came back or there was a break as happened sometimes after a pilot, but it was a different version of his character. I mean, he was definitely the wonderful pompous idiot, but they'd soften the edges. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't, uh, yeah.

Not many people can do Ricky Gervais and survive. That's right. Yeah. Well, I think that's the thing about Steve is I think Corel has such an innate warmth that the more they leaned into that, that warmth that he naturally has, the more they, he can kind of be the outrageous buffoon and Steve's sort of DNA will, will keep you on side.

Yeah. You know, um, again, to go back to cheers, like I think, you know, you talk about the acerbic lines, but again, I think if you didn't have the audience laughing along, there were some very cutting lines that the characters in that bar would share, you know, again, if you didn't have the audience to kind of say, Hey, it's okay.

Some of Carla's put nouns and you know, there was a, there was a spikiness to it that felt very real. Yeah. Cliff Claven, the mailman was the recipient of some of the most. It took so much of a beating. Yes.

Again, another great example of a, lives with his mother, you know, he's just again, you could imagine a, he would have been like a shooter in another version of that show. Yeah. That's funny. Have you done, I'm trying to think of what comedies you've done that did have a laugh track that either laugh track or an audience.

Well, I've done some guest spots. I did a guest spot on the, uh, big bang theory, chiefly for that reason. Cause I'm sorry. I met, but go on. Sorry. Finish. No, I'm sorry. I meant, go on. Sorry, finish. Oh, well, certainly in the UK, no, we haven't, not in terms of stuff I've myself written. We've never done stuff with a live audience.

Um, and- Is that common or uncommon to have a live audience? I think it used to be. Used to be just like it used to be here. I think it's sort of fading away now. Um, but I did it, I did a guest spot on the Big Bang 3, chiefly because I wanted to experience that, that doing a sitcom with a live audience and sort of feeling

the way it impacts the performance and the way the writers are throwing in new ideas or adapting based on the crowd, which is a completely different thing for me. The audience, I think, just takes you someplace that you have not gone during the week. And it can be very funny doing rehearsals. And sometimes we would have to shoot, we'd let the audience go after shooting it and then stick cameras someplace or something really didn't work and they'd tinker with it and the audience wasn't there. They almost never use that reshoot because the energy level and the excitement and not just from their laughter, but the

energy is just so vibrant when they are. But it's interesting to have that because for me the temptation is to really lean into the crowd and to kind of amplify your performance. And the thing I was always struck by, particularly in your performance, is that you, there was a sort of relaxed kind of effortlessness to it. It never felt like you were playing up to the crowd. Is that something that you-

Just no lack of talent. Just couldn't, I try, but my job was different. My job was to behold all of the wonderful buffoons and far out characters and be the, the audience's way into loving them. Yeah. But I think you're doing, yeah, but you're doing, you're being modest, because it's false humility, by the way. No, but I'm interested because it's, it, it, that one of the things that struck me

is, is the sort of, there's a kind of ease to your performance that's, that's, that's so, that's so relaxed. And is that from stage experience? Is that- No, you know, I don't know where- Were you stunned the whole time? Afterwards, after the show, my mind has, I won't tell you the whole story because I've told it before, but it's like Woody and I, after the show, really stoned. We hadn't been drinking, but it's really stoned.

Driving home on Sunset Boulevard and car phones had just come in, you know, and we were talking and just had the most amazing philosophical stone conversation. And two cops pulled both of our cars over simultaneously. Wow. I could hear on the guys radio, Oh, wait, let me see who I got. And he said, wait, let me see who I got. We got pulled over for going 12 miles an hour on sunset. Just so, so ripped.

Wow. And having the most delicious casual drive. Anyway, my, I always, I don't know where I got this, whether it could have been Jimmy Burroughs, who directed all of them and it was really my show business daddy. He was my, you know, this is how you do it. Yeah.

Teacher. Um, I always look at jokes as kind of how, how homeopathic can it be? How close to not touching the actual joke and still have it be funny. That's a great summary of the way you do it. Cause that's, that's what's, I mean, I still watch it now whenever it comes on and it's this, that's exactly what it is. You know, it never feels like you're selling the

joke, you're never leaning into it. Yeah. You just, it's, it's, it's a really, it's a kind of, you make it look way easier than it is as someone who's from college. That's really kind. Cause I admire you so much. Um, the other thing I think that you do, and I

know, I'm sure you do this too, is when you have a joke, you don't know if it's going to fly in front of the audience or not, or to what degree and others, so always have a back door. Always be doing something more interesting, physically doing something more interesting, physically doing something more interesting than the joke. So you can continue cutting that lemon as if it was, I knew it wasn't funny.

I don't give a shit. Is that why you're often topping up your coffee? Yes. Yeah. Hey, I am jumping around, but you made it really hard to do research on you because I would go, oh, here's a clip. And then I'd get sucked into the clip. Mary and I sat there and watched four episodes of not the, but Outlaws.

Oh yeah. Right. Oh, thank you. Oh, Stephen, it's, it's brilliant. Thank you. Thank you. It really is. It's my favorite kind of comedy.

There are funny things in it, obviously. The characters are so well drawn out and acted, you know, and you care about, and they're believably, not scummy, but you know, believably damaged, you know, low rent, you know, criminals, they have broken, indeed broken the law and you grow to love them and the villain is scarier than shit, you know, and we just left when we thought her parents were going to, you know, that moment, I won't go into it for

those, but it's really, really worth watching. It is so good for those people who haven't seen it. It's just brilliant. Oh, that's very kind of excited. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, that was a show that originated because for those that haven't seen it, it's about people doing, as we call it in the UK, community service or community payback. You say you get the small crime, the DOI, whatever, and you, instead of sending you to prison, they make you pick up trash or whatever. And that came about because my mother used to

was involved in that world. She was not a criminal. She supervised criminals. And through much of my kind of late teens and early twenties, that was what she did. And so in the UK, yeah, Bristol. And so she would come back and she would tell stories of the sort of people that she would be

supervising. And of course it was a real mixed bag because you'd have the kind of the people on the sort of criminal fraternity, but you'd have the businessman who, you know, the white collar criminal, you know, or whatever it is, or the particularly dumb one. I love that story. You tell it. Well, there was a, so there was a kid that was the, that I went to school with who would constantly come through her doors and because he was Bristol's most useless criminal. And it was always annoying me that if you're going to go into crime, at least be good at it. You don't have to study. You're just thieving and you can't even do that well. And like one time he got,

he ended up and she said, why are you here? He said, well, I got caught stealing someone's TV and then the homeowners came back and they went, Mark, what are you doing? And I said, I'm not Mark. And they went, yes, you are. You live next door. And he was stealing from his own neighbors. Like at least go two streets over. And anyway, I just thought it was him and there was other people that she talked about. And I just thought what an interesting way, as we were talking about with the office or with Cheers, how do you find groups of people that wouldn't interact otherwise and throw them together and watch those sparks fly? And the community service world was perfect for that because these people would never

have met otherwise. And it felt like an excuse to sort of explore people from very different backgrounds and then make them roll up against each other and see how. And we'll leave cheers alone, but it's that when you, when you have a set, a location that allows people from everywhere to come in, you can write stories forever. That's right. You know, and you, you did that. Tell me about the cast thing, because everybody is so, so good in it.

Well, I mean, obviously the, the kind of headline cast member was Christopher Walken, um, who, uh, yeah, you heard me, Christopher Walken, who, um, I, we, we wanted the idea of this kind of older American kind of con man thief who had sort of come to England probably in the early 70s to avoid the draft or the Vietnam War and had sort of hooked up with some local girl and had never really left and was sort of bumming around and he was just sort of such a perfect fit for that. That way that he can do kind of charm, but also be sort of sinister, but be funny. And the most unique person ever.

Extraordinary performance. A phenomenal man, an eccentric performer, but just perfect. And to take him to my hometown of Bristol where we shot the show and for him to be there was so extraordinary, but also unfortunately, um, it was during COVID. We ended up shooting during COVID. So I couldn't even, yeah. Oh, yeah. So we couldn't even, uh, I couldn't even show him around the city.

He sort of had to go from set to the, to the hotel and back again. And it was a very sad time because social is, you know, actors, you get to play. Well, that's so much of when you, you know, the actors, particularly when it's sort of, again, the idea of the surrogate family, people getting to know each other, the fact you can't really do that off set because you couldn't hang out and stuff, it was, it was tough, but anyway, I would never have ever, ever thought that. Oh, that's great. That's great. And I read that you went to Stonehenge. At one point Christopher Walken and I went to Stonehenge.

Um, and you know, he's a, he's a, he's a sort of enigmatic man, Chris. And he doesn't, he's not, he's sort of a man of few words and we were kind of wandering around Stonehenge and there was a tour guide showing us around and he hadn't really spoken. He was just taking it in, taking in the vibe. It was kind of sunset. It was a, I think it's a very kind of spiritual place for many people. At one point he just, the only thing he said was he said, um, apparently the blue stones have healing properties.

I was like, wow, Chris really knows what he's talking about. And he said to the British tour guide, uh, can I touch it? And she went, no, such a British thing. No, this is Christopher Walken. He's come to Stonehenge for the first time in his life. Can he touch us? No, we don't let anyone touch them. What, you take them in at night? I mean, people are going to touch the stones, but yeah, it's those things where as someone who was a fan of film and TV and comedy and movies and all that growing up, the idea that one day I would be at Stonehenge with Chris Walken just seems so, so wild to me. Even now.

That kind of person, his talent and who he is and how much I admire him, but also his demeanor. Yeah. his talent and who he is and how much I admire, but also his demeanor. Cause I'm, I'm the guy who vomits my life out on anybody and everybody, you know, and I'm, Hey, and I, I, I'm sure that would be met with silence and I'd be totally dumbfounded at what to do next. Yeah. And that's the thing. You'll just very occasionally he'll, he'll offer something up and you'll be like,

wow, that, you know, just a fascinating little tidbit. And other times he'll just be quiet. But he's a real, what I was excited by was he was still passionate about acting. You know, even in his later years, he just still cared and he was invested and he was considered and thoughtful and he had take some things. It was just, I just, that was so exciting to me that someone of his status still gave a shit. Tell me about directing while being in it. Do you have somebody watch through the

camera or watch the scene for you and go, Oh, maybe you could try such and such? I always, I was directing, so I always directed all of the British version of The Office alongside Ricky. And then when we started doing stuff where I was also a performer, we carried on directing. And so I got used to that idea of sort of being in both, both in front of and behind the camera. What I found tough with the Outlaws was firstly, I was trying to make

it a little bit more cinematic. It was a bit more ambitious. Um, but also being one of an ensemble, there's seven or eight main characters. Um, when you're as tall as I am, six foot seven, you inevitably have to put yourself at the back of this, the You can't really block other smaller actors. Yeah. So I could never see what anyone was doing in the group scenes because they were up the upfront talking and I'd be at the back.

And I just never had time to go and check the tape. Yeah. So there was a great deal of faith you put in the actors to just deliver the goods. I know some sound people who go, and I can tell if it's good just by listening through my headphones in my little dark closet. I bet you there's some of that too. Yes, I think there's that. And I think also, particularly if you're in a scene with someone, it just feels right if it's working. You know what I mean? You know it yourself as a performer.

You can just sense when the scene is firing and also when something's not working and trying to find ways to remedy it. But ultimately it just, I ended up letting other directors do stuff because it was just too ambitious to try and do everything. Um, cause it was a big show and there was a lot of, a lot of. Well, we can't literally can't wait.

We're going to start watching again tonight. Oh, great. Thank you so much. Really lovely. Is it new to the United States or has it been here for a while? It's all it's all there's three seasons and they're all on Amazon.

So you can watch all on Amazon. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well, are people watching it? Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic.

Okay. So I'm just late to the party. It's not a newsflash. Um, can we back up? Um, so I don't know, six, seven year old you, what were you doing? Were you aiming towards this kind of creative career or what were you doing? Were you aiming towards this kind of creative career or what were you doing?

I don't know if I at six or seven knew about this, but certainly by my early teens, I was very single-minded about being in comedy and in film and TV. I was, I was a fan just as a viewer. My dad and I would watch a lot of, um, particularly older American movies, Bob Hope and the March brothers.

And, um, and then I sort of discovered Woody Allen and, and then great American sitcoms, mash and, you know, other shows that were very important to me. And, and alongside that, uh, John Cleese from Monty Python had grew up in the West country of Britain, of England, as did I. And he was very tall, like I am.

And I think part of me at a young age was like, well, if you need tall, funny guys from the West country, sure I'll throw my hat in the ring. Like I just was, if that's what you need. And so there was a part of me that was just like at 12 or 13 going, I guess I'll be John Cleese. Yeah. And, and sort of people would look at me like, no, that's not an ambition. You need to, do you want to work in a bank or something? Like you can't be John Cleese. That's not what people do. But for some reason, and I don't

know where this came from. I was not from a performing family. I just had this single mindedness like, no, I'll do it. I'll give it a go. And I'm not to compare myself with John Cleese, but in terms of getting into the profession and becoming a writer and a performer, that worked out. And so even now when I look back now, I just, where did that arrogance come from? How dare you think that you could do this for a living? And I don't know where that comes from because I'm not a man who's sort of arrogant. I don't think or crazy confident in all aspects of my life, but for some reason, I just was very

single-minded about that and sort of manifested it. I think you do, you do exude a lot of self confidence. That doesn't mean arrogant. Right. I think maybe that's it. I always worry that, you know, that they, that

they can blur into each other. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, was it the same? Your mom, your dad, was that the same? My dad's a very funny man and, but, but was not in the profession, but was always very funny and shared my love of comedy and stuff. And I think my mother was a lot more kind of,

oh, you're going to go into comedy. Well, you know, you have something to fall back on, get an education, you know, those sensible things, which I did. Um, but I luckily with the British version of the office, it happened when I was still quite young in my early twenties. And so I was sort of off to the races. And so that confidence or that self belief was sort of born out quite quickly.

I was like, okay. But then what was weird was I remember going to the BBC to pitch the British version of the office. And I said, um, being known by nobody, nobody knew who we were. We were complete strangers. And we went, this guy, Ricky's going to be in it. We're going to write it. We're going to direct it. Um, and they said to me, why would we let you do all those things? And I remember saying, we might be the next Orson Welles. But I didn't mean it arrogantly. I meant it in that way that nobody knew that he was going to be Orson Welles. Right.

He just was. And I, but in my mind, it was like, take a chance. We don't know, but it sounds like the most arrogant thing in the world. And Ricky was in the same position. He was a little older than me. So he was a little more, he had, I think that he was in his thirties, so I just think he. Was he performing?

No. No, this is what I mean, none of us had any experience. You literally just said hey. We just were people off the street, I mean, it was mad. And the show, so they just left us alone because it was super low budget, it was just in one room essentially, no star actors, no one came to visit. No one came to check on us. It went out. No one watched it. They did a test audience screening and it got the lowest test audience score except for women's lawn bowls, which is like where they sort of roll little balls along a lawn. Didn't

even know that was on TV. But women's? Women's, specifically women's or men's lawn bowls is crazy popular, but apparently women's lawn bowls, very low scoring. Office was second and it, no one watched it. And we're like, oh, well, we tried. And then it just started to pick up some steam,

you know, and they started to win some awards and, and then it got rerun and people started to watch it. Did press love you? Did they buy you? The press were on top of it and they loved it. And then it just started to gather steam. It's very similar to Cheers.

Was it? Right. Oh, we were dead last one week that first year. Yeah. I mean, 70, Jimmy likes to say we were 75th out of 70 shows. It was just dead last. But isn't it interesting how many shows have that reputation and that people stuck with them and they became phenomenon.

Seinfeld obviously being another example. And I just don't know nowadays whether things get that breathing space, right? Or that runway, you know? Um, but yeah, it's, it's interesting. I think, like you said, which is with it, just the audience starts to engage with it. They start, they, once they tune in to the

world and they start to find the characters, affection for them, even the, you know, the mean characters, they, then they're in. And once you get them in, they're in. And it's like, it's like a soap opera. They just want to spend time in that universe. And it's kind of unique to sitcom, I think. You know, you watch things like the

Sopranos and that, and yes, you're intrigued, but there's a, there's an edginess to the viewing. Whereas with comedy, there's a sort of, there's just a, there's something, I don't know, enveloping warm, inviting about being into that. And you're going to feel better on the other end. And you can go to bed feeling a little better about life.

Absolutely. Did you ever get to meet John Cleese? I've never met him. No, I've never met him. But my- Shame on him. Shame. Well, so my parents were on a cruise once

and they found out that Cleese was on the same cruise. He was gonna give a talk and sign copies of a book that he'd written. Free cruise, John. A free cruise for John. And my parents were like, this is so exciting. We're going to get a book signed for Stephen. But being my parents, they got the wrong day and they showed up and the talk had already

happened. They'd missed it. And so through the kind of, you know, through the ship's people, they said, could we try and get this book signed? Anyway, I came back to visit them one time and they were showing me this kind of shaky camcorder footage of them in their room on the ship. Anyway, I came back to visit them one time and they were showing me this kind of shaky camcorder footage of them in their room on the ship. And you can see my mother going, I don't know how it works, Ron.

It's a camera running. And anyway, they pressed play on the kind of answering machine in the cabin. And it's John Cleese and he's saying, hey, someone asked me to sign this book for you. Of course, I'm happy to do it. Can I just ask, is it the same Stephen Merchant who did The Office? Oh, nice. Because I'm a big fan of the show and I want to send my regards. And it's like, I'm done. I don't need to meet it. Can I just ask, is it the same Stephen Merchant who did the office? Oh, nice. Because I'm a big fan of the show and I want to send my regards. And it's like, I'm done. I don't need to meet him. You know, we came full circle.

He was on Cheers and it was like, yeah, because we all grew up with Monty Python. I was over by the time you came along. But for us, it was like the Holy Grail. It literally was a comedy. It literally was of comedy. It was. Yeah. We've never seen. That's one of the great, one of the great episodes. I think.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he was so smart and giving to, cause there was this, and the writers, everybody were, he's, you know, visiting royalty. We all felt the same. And I think the writers were trying to make sure he had something wonderful and it was the last scene. And it just, the scene wasn't working. And then John finally said, I think you need to stop worrying about me.

I'm very happy. And just write what the scene needs. And it just, yeah. That's great. They ended up writing this terrific scene, but he was so generous. And so then I had a root canal or something like the weekend after we shot and he came to visit me at the house unsolicited just to see how are you feeling. So anyway. Oh, that's lovely. That's nice.

We have a good hero in common. Absolutely. Yeah. Who were your other kind of comedy heroes when you. Dick Van Dyke. Dick Van Dyke. Yeah. Yeah. Who were your other kind of comedy heroes when you- Dick Van Dyke. Dick Van Dyke, yeah. Hands down. Yeah. Because again, he has that very relaxed, almost effortless style.

Yeah. And physical comedy. Yeah. Both John Cleese and Dick Van Dyke are just incredible with their bodies. Well, that's something I've tried to incorporate where I can. No, you're magnificent. Physical stuff. I seriously love watching you act. Thank you. Thank you.

I think it's also when you're very tall, like I am, someone said to me once in an interview, do you think you went into comedy to control when people laugh at you? And I thought that's a hell of an opening question. Fuck you first. Yes, exactly. But it has started with me because I think there's probably some truth to that. When you're six foot seven, people naturally look at you anyway. And, and so there's something about if you're going to stare at me, let it be on my terms.

Yeah, I agree. You know, I, I didn't have that, but I was at age 13, six foot and 120 pounds. I was scary, scary. And I went to a prep school and they had their share of bullies. But the bullies did not know what to do with me. It was like if I hit him, he could shatter and I'd spend the rest of my life in jail.

So they just would leave me alone. And then I also figured early on, I don't know, I'm not like saying this is the way to go in life. I think being confrontive is a good thing sometimes, but I would find the biggest bully on the playground and make them laugh. Yeah, right. And then he was mine. I, he became human to me and I was the kid who made him laugh.

Yeah. I never remember being bullied, but I think I got in there preemptively by trying made him laugh. Yeah. Yeah. I think I, I never remember being bullied, but I think I got in there preemptively by trying to be funny in, and so therefore I, like you say, I was kind of insulated from the bullying, but at the same time, I think I used humor at school as a bit of a barrier and therefore I think I don't, I never felt like I was part of any gang really.

Yeah. You know, I was always slightly on the periphery kind of observing and, you know, got on finding was not, and it was not a, it was not an unpleasant experience school, but it just never quite, you know, because I was using humor to just keep people at arms length for fear of that bullying attack.

I wasn't ever really quite part of any, of any circle. What was, do you remember when, when from one person, once a week, oh, I saw you and such and such to when it became a torrent of people recognizing you, what, how, how does fame, how does fame sit on you? Well, I think it was a slow burn, you know, the, um, the old analogy of the frog in the pan of water and you slowly turn up the heat and it doesn't realize it's being boiled alive.

And I think because I started as a writer and then I would start popping up here and there on talk shows or, um, and then started to perform and, and was on screen and it just, so it was a much more slow burn experience for me. Um, and I think there was probably an occasion where, uh, I remember like, you know, there'd be like a kind of gossip column and they'd, they'd, they'd have seen me, you know, like, I remember they said they'd, they'd seen me in a blockbuster video arguing with

my girlfriend, presumably squabbling over what movie we were going to, although I don't remember ever arguing in the blockbuster anyway, but I remember then you get slightly kind of complacent. Like I don't know if I've, you might've heard me tell this story before, but, um, much like in Times Square at new year in sort of central London in Trafalgar square at new year, there's a big congregation of people for the big countdown and the whole thing. And I was there and, you know, and I'm six foot seven, so I'm taller than most of the people in the crowd. So I'm like checking out the scene and I was young and I was single and I'm like looking for, you know, so maybe a new year paramour. And this girl comes up through the crowd and she walks up to me and

she says, Hey, are you going to be here for a while? And I thought, here we go. She's probably seen me on TV. Yeah. Wants a little piece of Steve, of course. And I thought, here we go. She's probably seen me on TV. Yeah. Once a little piece of Steve, of course. And she went, she said, I said, yeah, I'm going to be here for a while. She said, great, because my friends and I have arranged to meet back at you. I went, she said, yeah, yeah, yeah. We just, we need like a meeting point. We're all going to get, we're going off to a party. So we just thought we'd use you if that's all right, because we can see you wherever you go. I was like, uh huh. He said, yeah, move around. Don't worry.

We can see you. I was like, okay. So I would move around. Then finally I just started fight people, like just started gathering and I would move and they would move with me. I'm like, oh, and then eventually she showed up. She's saying, thanks so much. And I'm thinking, well, she'll invite me to the party.

They went off to the party. I didn't get invited. I went home alone. I'm like, yeah, I was getting a little too big for my boots there on the old, uh, celebrity front. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a, it's a strange experience, you know, celebrity again, though, I think because I was tall, people always looked at me.

I was about to say, it was hard to tell the difference. Always got stared at, you know, and even now, if people don't know who I am, I'll still get people's comment, you know, cause I think people think being very tall is like an accomplishment. It's not an insult, you know, so I get a lot of you play basketball and I'll order a drink in a bar and someone will be like, that's a tall order. And everyone will laugh and high five. And I'm like, is that allowed? But yeah. So, um, I think that, uh, I've always, yeah, I've always had people gawping. Your parents, how are they with your fame?

Do you have siblings? I have one sister, Alex, who's involved sort of behind the scenes in TV and film. So she's worked on a number of the projects, including the outlaws. But my dad, I think, uh, is quite enamored. Of my celebrity party because we put him in the British version of the office. So very occasionally he'll get recognized, which is a huge thrill for him. He didn't have any speaking lines, but he was a sort of janitor who will occasionally appear like holding some toilet rolls and just stare at the camera, transfixed. And occasionally people

will recognize him. But if I'm walking with him, like I'll go for a little walk with him in when I go visit and we'll like walk past his local butcher shop and he'll just suddenly grab me and throw me in the door. You're like, look who it is. And they'll be like, Hey, and I'm sort of like a piece of meat, like a surprise cow to be admired by the butcher. But no, he's, yeah, but it's, I think there's a, there's like a big picture of me on the wall when you walk into the, to the family. That's great.

My, I grew up without a TV and my parents didn't want television and, and then cheers came along and they, they were, oh, well, we guess we have to buy a TV. They put a kind of a religious tapestry over the front of it. So, you know, it was only when they took the, you know, open up the devil and turned it on. And they would just watch Cheers and then throw it back. Yeah. And I mean, now they, then they grew into news and other things like that.

But I think what they loved about it is people reached out to them who they hadn't friends who they hadn't spoken to or had lost track. So it was a, it was like a good thing to them because they got to hang around and meet other, their friends that they had. Yeah. Do you remember though, it's interesting you said that about you. Cause I remember when I was growing up with certain households, there was almost like a shame about having a TV.

Like I remember, I don't know if you had this in the U S but they would have, they would have like video cassette cases for the VCR, but the cases would look like books and you would put the VCR and the VCR tape in the, and then he would put them on the shelf. So they looked like books. No, that's like, you know what I mean? Like the idea that people come around and go, Hey, can I borrow that book? No, no, no, you can't read that book. No, that's a family.

That's a family book. You can't keep, just the idea of like hiding your videotapes. No, that's one piece. That's the book. But were they, so were they religious? Is that why? No, I think it was a combination of things. We lived out in the country and so in Arizona,

so it was early, this is in the 50s, so satellite was not in play. So they had to take, lay a cable to your house in essence. And that was very expensive. If you lived out in the country, you would have to foot that bill. So it became out of the question. And then they just loved to read.

They were readers. My father was a museum director, archaeologist, anthropologist. And my mother was, I like to say she became spiritual, but she was very religious. But not like anti-television. Right, anti-entertainment. I'd rather you read and you go play. Yeah, yeah. I televisionize myself, but just I'd rather you read and you go play. Yeah. You know, and, uh, of course now I'm the guy who will turn on a cooking

show and watch it for 12 hours straight. Yeah. I think that my dad, my dad was like a plumber and a builder, and I think he would come home and be exhausted. And so TV was just a great kind of sow for him. And so we would watch it together. And like I say, we'd watch a lot of old black and white movies and things. And so it was always a kind of bonding thing and particularly comedy watching

comedy was a big bonding thing for he and I. So there was never any, in fact, I remember once we, I said, dad, maybe I should go and like play some sport or something. And he's like, okay. So he took me around to the park with a cricket bat and a ball. And I had the cricket bat and he had the ball and he bowled me the ball and I thwacked it. And he said, we're not, I'm not going to go and run for that. So we went home, watch TV.

It was the last time I played sport with my father. He was having none of it. And so I was never encouraged to go out and play. I was always encouraged to sit in and watch movies and TV. Are you nonstop work mode basically? I mean, you love what you do. in and watch movies and TV. Are you nonstop work mode basically? I mean, you love what you do, but do you, what do you do when you don't do this? Or do you not have those?

No, I don't do a lot of non this because it was a hobby before it was a profession. It was my hobby is acting. I love it. I love going to a studio. I love this. The whole process of it. I used to draw comic strips and I used to write little sketches and things.

I just, it was fun to me. It was creatively stimulating. It was nutritious. And so, and people would often say, Oh, you're a workaholic. And it's like, well, that sounds very pejorative. And it's like, but what am I supposed to do? Like go and play golf, even though I don't play

golf, like I, I, you know, I mean, so aside from playing a bit of online chess, I don't do a lot. Yeah. Are you good? No, no, but I'm enthusiastic. Um, but what I like about online chess is, uh, you can play anonymously and you have like a little avatar image that you can choose for some reason.

Mine is Prince on roller skates. But anyway, um, you'll often, you'll also get people will can write to you when you're playing a game and they don't know who you are. And they'll just insult you, you know, be like, you suck, you know, whatever. And it's quite a few occasions now where they've had little avatar of like Dwight Shroot from the office or one of the shows I've done, they don't know it's me. So they're like insulting me. They're also a fan have done, they don't know it's me. So they're like insulting me. Yeah.

They're also a fan at the same time, which I, I find quite delicious. Thank you. Kaching. Thank you again. Nice one. Kaching. Have you written a book?

Forgive my ignorance. I have not written a book besides publishing some scripts of shows we've done, but no, I've not, I quite like to write a book. You would? I would. Yeah, I would. Have you?

Like an autobiography? No, no, no, no. There are too many people still alive who go, you put, why did you put that? You know, no. I quite, I think I'd quite like to do that at some point, but I've, I've just started rebuilding. I started doing a standup act. I haven't done it for about 12 or 13 years.

That's ballsy. Yeah. And I stand up as a whole different deal. Well, that done it for about 12 or 13 years. That's ballsy. Stand up is a whole different deal. Well that was one of the things when I started, I started doing stand up and then I got sidetracked with TV and kind of didn't go back to it for a long time and eventually did. And then again, put it on hold because it's, like you say, it's ballsy, it's also tiring, it's hard, you know, you have to go out of the house and try out the material in bars and clubs. It's very anti-social. But anyway, I've been enjoying it. Turing or one-offs?

At the moment, I'm just building an act very slowly and eventually I will tour it. But I suppose it's a form of autobiography, right? Because you're drawing on life. Are you doing it in LA? Have you been doing it? I've been mainly doing it in the UK, but I will, while I'm here, I'll try some little spots here. What is it like taking, building an act in either LA or in England? Yeah.

Does it translate? Well, the problem is some of the reference points. Right. It's very hard when you're in a particular city or culture, you inevitably draw on those, some of those reference points. And so that's the thing which is harder to translate. But I think that kind of, hopefully the DNA of it, um, will still, will still translate

across. So I will ultimately, I will try and make sure I can, it can work on both sides of the Atlantic. But, um, at the moment it's just sort of, it's just, yeah, it's just throwing a lot of shit at the wall to see what sticks. And do people know that you're doing that by the way? I always hear that people show up to the laugh factory or whatever here in LA to try out material.

That's what I try and do. Yeah. Just show up on events. Is that kind of an unspoken thing with your audience? They know that this is you trying out stuff? I think you declare, look, I'm trying this stuff out. It's new and you'll have maybe a notebook,

but I think what's exciting is not being announced so that there are people in the audience who don't know who you are. Right. So they have no, um, they have no sort of built in affection for you. He's funny. So I will laugh because he's known to be funny.

Exactly. So that for, therefore it's sort of like a stronger test of the material in some way, cause they're not your audience and they're, they're just judging you on if you're funny or not. So I find that quite effective. But it's also very, it's a slow process. Do you have a go to for for bombs of a joke bombs? I always love that cheers all week, some joke was just killing us. We thought it was hysterical. The writers thought it was hysterical. We couldn't wait to perform it.

And on show night, it would bop, and it's crickets. And you could not help, but we would all burst into hysterics because it was so physically funny to your body. Yeah, right, right. You just thought there was a step there, and you just fell two stories. I think the difference with stand-up is that there's no one to share the pain, you know?

So it's just you on the stage and you've left this gap for a laugh and it didn't come and there's sort of no hiding place. And that's, I remember when I first started out before I was known at all, I remember when I first started out before I was known at all, I sort of, my early act was a bit postmodern and it was, the idea was me, I was sort of playing a character of this arrogant standup that no one had ever heard of that thought he deserved more credit and applause than he was getting. And that was sort of, so I would come out and I would be like annoyed that they weren't giving me enough applause. And I would like, I would read reviews, my reviews,

but I'd written them in such a way that they were clearly negative, but they could be interpreted as positive. You know what I mean? And if the audience got the joke, they went for it. They loved it because they could laugh along at my arrogance, my fake arrogance. But if they didn't get it and they just thought I was an arrogant comedian, I was done for. I went, I had no act because the whole act was like pretending there was going to be an act if you started showing me some respect. And one time I was performing it and it just nothing. I mean, brutal. And someone shouted taxi for the comedian, you know, the sort of classic kind of slam.

And I had nowhere to go. And I remember coming off and, and the only person who liked it was the waitress who had, who had done it, seen a lot of comedy and she could see what I was doing. And, and I remember leaving and I called my agent. I was like, you've got to get me out of all future gigs.

I'm done. This is it's over. This is before you were a Steven. Before I was known. Yeah. And, um, and he said, well, I can't cause you're contracted to go to this next gig. And I showed up at this next kid.

I'm like, this, I know it's all over, but they went for it. I was back on the horse, but I remember at that moment thinking, looking back on it, it's like, Oh, I bombed so terribly and I didn't die and I did get through it. And they were, and I, and I sort of carried on. And so once you've experienced that sheer terror, you're sort of slightly insulated. You definitely don't invite it and you don't want it, but you're sort of prepared for the physical experience of it. Yeah. I cannot identify at all. It's just too ballsy for me. And I've always loved the ensemble-ness of acting, but that is just terrifying to me.

Yeah. It's a strange perversion. Not everyone who does stand up when you put them into a scripted show is generous. It's like, I got the ball, let me run, get out of my way. Cause they're used to controlling the situation completely on their own. Yes. used to controlling the situation completely on their own. And it's a rare stand up, not rare maybe anymore, but rare stand up that passes the ball back and forth, you know, as it were, with the other actors. I always admire it when people do and can, and you certainly do.

Well, I appreciate that, but I think it's because I think in my DNA, I probably am a writer first and a performer second. And as a writer, you're always looking at the bigger picture. And as a director, you want the whole ensemble to gel, to work. You understand that the sort of give and take that sometimes the emphasis needs to be on other characters. And so I think, and I think the more I've done it, the more I've become experienced as an actor, the more I've, it's both fed back into the writing. It's also given me a lot of faith that actors will help me solve problems, script problems if scenes not working. And I always think the thing I've realized is that as an actor, I think you're seeing

the script from the inside out somehow. And as a writer, a director, you're on the outside looking in. And I think sometimes if something's not right, I'm like, I can't figure out why as a writer, this is not working. I'll ask the actor and they'll be able to, something that's not right for their character in that scene. And so I do try to think of them as almost different disciplines. You do the writing, then you move to the acting and, you know, thinking them as very separate things. And as time's gone on, I've started to do some

drama acting as well. Um, and that's become a whole other sort of skillset, you know, as you start to get into drama. Jojo Rabbit, you were just absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much. That was an amazing film. Thank you.

That was a, that was a, that was a very good film. Yeah. But I did a thing in the UK. Four lives UK for lives where I played a real life serial killer. And that was fascinating because you don't know how do you get into the mind of a serial killer. And that became almost like a writer, a right to the exercise, like almost writing in your head. What are they thinking when they're in court, do they know they're lying? Have they convinced themselves? They didn't commit these crimes. And that itself becomes a really interesting

thing to explore. I did play a part early on, beautifully written. It was about somebody who incested their child, who they loved. Yeah. Da da da da. And I did a lot of research and, uh, talked to people who treated those kinds of people.

And you could, you could understand, you could sit there in your process, go, oh, I see, I see, until the act. Yeah. And then there's a line that that person crossed, which is... Unknowable, isn't it? Yeah. And taboos in society, this sounds like, and this is actor talk, so wow, I hope this comes across all right. But taboos are set up in society because it's

not unheard of. Right. Right. What this crime or this act, it's not unheard of. So you make it a taboo. So anyway, I don't know how you felt. I mean, was the person was killing lots of people or? He killed at least four men that we're aware of, maybe more. And not in acts of passion, acts of sanity. No, there was a premeditated aspect to it. So how did you, you know, you can get close to that, I would assume as an actor writer preparing thinking, right. But then there's that line. There's, there's that line where it's, it's, it's baffling and you just can't, you can't understand it. And there's a little bit of footage of him being interviewed by the police.

He's, it's quite a recent crime. So he's in prison now in the UK, but, um, the little bit of footage I saw, there was something almost childlike about him. And that was something I used almost just as a way in of kind of like imagining a child who sort of doesn't quite fully understand their actions or the blurring between right and wrong. You know, maybe that was just a way of trying to compute it. Which you'll have to say a sociopath or a psychopath. Yeah.

That there is that lack of understanding, that lack. If you don't have compassion or empathy and you can't teach it. Yeah. I mean, you could probably give it a good shot, but you can't teach it. And so. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm always very admiring of actors that really go into that territory. Because again, it's not until I started to explore that as an actor that I started to really understand those that do it incredibly well, sort of how challenging it is.

I'm not sure I'm that guy. Or want to be. I mean, you never know whether you don't have the chops to do it or whether you just don't have the emotional desire to do it. I remember when I was playing this thing, it was called something about Amelia playing that character. I knew that my job was to be as truthful in every moment as possible so that people couldn't dismiss me, oh, you know. Oh, well, that's not me. Once you lose them and they start, they go, oh, well, yeah, Stephen kind of blew that moment up or, oh, Stephen lost me there. Then you're doing a disservice to the peace because really what you're trying to say is there, but for the grace of God, go I. Not that, oh, that's

something foreign and inhuman. No, it is human. It's horrible. And that's what's all the more chilling. But I think also it's that fear of, because people know you for comedy, making sure you don't sort of unbalance the piece because it's inadvertently perceived as comic, even if you yourself are not trying to be comic. And that was my fear, but certainly the reports I got back, it wasn't seen that way. But it's interesting because to me, comedy was always very instinctive and very easy. And I sort of understood how to do it as a performer. I understood timing. It was never intimidating to me. Whereas this was very different because it felt like this was new territory. I didn't have any kind of guardrails to help me. And that was both challenging but exciting.

I don't see it as a stretch for you. I mean, I'm sure it was, but your comedy, I'll give you the compliment back. Your comedy is believable. You're taking people and maybe tilting one little quarter inch past what would be perhaps drama or sad and making it funny. But you never lose people into, oh, well, this is so broad, you know, that it's, it's not, you're not laughing at something that I would ever be. You always make sure that you're human and relatable to, and you can't be dismissed.

I hope so, because I think it goes back to what we said at the very beginning, which is that, you know, certainly the comedy I've always loved, both sides of the Atlantic, there is sort of a, not necessarily a tragedy, but there is a realism, there's a sadness or a desperation or just a humanity at the core of it. And yes, you're dialing things up for laughs, but what's relatable, what you're tuning into is something very human. And so, you know, like even in some, like outlaws where I'll have a scene that's played for laughs and the next moment it will be very dark or dramatic because to me that is what life is. You know, it can shade between those two areas in an instant, right? Something can be hysterical

and then you get a phone call and it's the saddest thing you've ever heard. So that is to me what life is. And I always think sometimes, you know, people will get criticized things. Cause they'll be like, Oh, well, you know, it's tonally all over the place. And it's like, well, kind of like life because life is it's totally very wild. Yeah. Yeah. And it can change on a dime. Where do you have sadness in you? This may be Barbara Walters. But what do you do?

I mean, you write, you have a familiarity with in your work. Yeah, I don't, I, I often kind of flippantly say that I, I'm kind of, I'm annoyed I don't have more sadness, just from a creative point of view, a creative fuel, more depression or darkness in my past or whatever. I just, but it's not really there. Of course, ultimately, I'm thankful for that. But I read about these very tortured comedians or artists or writers who have just

got so much pain to draw on. I'd love a piece of that. I'd love a little bit of that. But what I, my dad wouldn't play cricket with me. Like that's not enough. That's not enough fuel. He's used it for like 30 years. It's really, it must have been a big, big day for him.

Yeah. Yeah. But, um, but I am just interested in people, I guess. And I think, I think increasingly one of the things I love about like the podcast world is just, just how you get to hear those long form conversations with people that really help you dial into what makes people tick. That's literally why I want to do this. Yeah.

It is a privilege to, and it's something that I'm not, I, I, I do the self deprecating who am I to way too much. Right. And it, but it, for whatever reason I do it and it keeps me in a party or picking up the phone and going, you're fascinating. Can we just hang out for a minute or have a beer or talk or. Yeah. I don't do it, but now there are these guard, they're not guard rails, but this is what we're supposed to do.

There's, we have a microphone in front of us and we get to spend an hour talking. And I would never do this with you. Right. Yeah. And I would definitely never do this with you, Ted. Hey, well, if you called me, I would never answer. I've been like, Jesus, this guy again. But you know, I love my relationships.

I never wanted to go have a hangout and have a beer. I'm not that guy. I really not. I want to go hang out with my wife, but not go have a beer. Even though I like you and it'd be nice and it'll be nice and relaxing because we're guys, ho ho ho. But it's, I wouldn't do it, but working, having a project together. Yes, yes, yes.

Is my favorite thing to do. Yeah. Well, I'm very good sort of in isolation. Like I'm very quite happy on my own. You know, I like having, I say I like having conversations. I'm not completely loathing the idea of a beer with you or anyone else, but I could also spend two weeks, you know, at home, never seeing anybody. And I would, and I would be quite fine. And even if my partner, Marceo was not around, like, you know, I love spending time with her, but I, again, I'm quite good sort of on my own, just.

Is she good on her own? Uh, she, I think she would prefer that I was in the house and that we were hanging out. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and she's just, I think, naturally more adept at sort of social interaction. I think I always have had to work at it slightly

more, sort of trying. Yeah. I, um, it took me a long time, I think, to, to think that it wasn't, it wasn't through, it wasn't through sort of, it sounds like I'm being really kind of down on myself, but I just used to think, I don't know, people would be fine if I wasn't around. And I don't mean that in a really bleak way, I just feel like, yeah, I'm fine. I'm all right, you know, if I'm at the party, yeah. But if I wasn't there, you're all going to be fine.

And as I got older, I'm like, oh, that's true of everybody. Like we can all cope without other people, you know, well, there'll be a substitute and there'll be someone else. But so, but it sounds like, oh, this guy hates himself, but it was just, no. I thought I was getting close to something sad, but shoot, shoot, I guess not, darn it. I love going to like award shows and worried about and being self-conscious and worried what people might, or da da da da da da,

and then realize there's this blinding flash of, no one is paying attention to anyone else in that room. They're all going through this self-doubt, same thing. I was nominated nine times before I won an Emmy. I think I've won two out of like 18 or 19 nominations. But people in those rooms will go, oh, well, you've won so many times. No one has any idea about it. You're just in your own little world of self-consciousness.

What did you win for ultimately? Thanks a lot. Did you win for cheers? Hold on, hold on. Yes, two cheers. But I think, Kenzie, I think that comes down to the fact you made it look easy. I think people, it's not showy. It's not a showy performance.

And I think people underrate that. Could be. You know, I think some, often the people that win awards are doing, they're doing a lot of tricks. Yeah. And even when we as- Let's go with that. I like that.

Or maybe you were just terrible in those first eight seasons. Or how come we don't have more Academy Award winning either comedic performances or comedies? Well, that is an interesting question. I do wonder that. To pull a comedy off as a filmmaker, as a writer, let alone as an actor, is hard. That's really hard. It's very, very hard to do anything well and to do something well where you also need to

have laughs every 10 seconds. That's really tough. Really hard. And I don't, like you say, I've never quite understood why it's not more valued. Let you say it this way. As an actor, comedy is like an athletic sport. You need to be in training. You need to be in good shape.

You need to have all your brain cells firing drama. You can show up divorced, depressed and drunk and the camera goes, oh, wow. There's so much pain here. Yeah. But I think it's that you were saying about the being at the award show. I think one of the great reliefs as you get older is realizing no one has it figured out. Everyone's guessing, everyone's insecure, everyone's, what did that guy think of me? Did I say something dumb at the dinner party? And that's, it's,

and when you realize that a great weight is lifted. I think when you're, certainly when I was younger, I just was like, I just felt like other people had figured it out. And what was I missing? No, no one knows. And even as you get older, you realize that, but you don't have anything figured out more. You know, you still feel like that. What the hell did I say that for? You just don't care as much. I have this prayer is like when I go into a situation like that I said please Ted do not tilt too far forward just just relax let people come to you you don't have to you know and the last thing and it never works the last thing I went to was a Screen Actors Guild award and we were kind of late because we were late to the crowd so they were just starting as we walked through the crowd to get to our table.

It was all round tables. And this sweet lady was leading us and Mary was behind her. I was behind Mary and I took my eyes off this little line of the sweet lady and Mary and they went left to get to our table and I went right thinking that it was this table I was approaching and man I was glad handing all these acts going hey how are you good to see you again last time and I went around the table and somebody finally grabbed me gently by the show your table's over here just to dance and everyone's looking at you like such a prat. Yeah. The saving grace is I find my stupidity funny.

Right. Right. Kind of delights me. Yes. That I'm such an idiot. Well, I think when, particularly when something happens, even in the moment that I'm humiliating myself, like the story with the Trafalgar square at new year.

Even at the moment it happened, I'm like, this is gold dust. Like I can't believe my luck, cause you're in a profession that allows you to turn that into something, whether it's stand up or talk show and it don't whatever. And there's such a relief to that being able to, and I think I'm all the thing that I always judge

people on is can they laugh at themselves when I meet people that can, that are never the center of the joke, that never the bottom of the joke. That's sad. That have to sort of win in every conversation, in every anecdote. I know I'm, they're never going to be my people.

I just can't tune into that. I like the sauce thing to be around. Yeah. I like the people that are willing to share the time that they fell on their face. I, I, I, I'm interested in alpha males, but ultimately they're boring. Yes. Yes.

You know, yeah, they still have too much oxygen. They're just soaking up all the air in the room. Aren't they? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I find that, you know, you, sometimes I, you realize what someone's like and

you're like, okay, I'll just let them talk and then go find someone else. I'm not going to compete with this. The one-upmanship thing, I've never got into that. Hey, let the work do the talking, yeah? I'm so grateful you came in and talked with me. I so admire you, your work as an actor. I love watching you act, but I cannot wait to go home and see the rest of Outlaws. That's incredible. I just love it. Well, it's a huge thrill for you to have invited me. I'm such a fan of you, as you know, and so, yeah, I'm sending all that praise back at you and thank you so much for having me. praise back at you and thank you so much for having me. That was Stephen Merchant.

Really he's kind of John Please-like to me and check out Outlaws. I think it's on Prime Video and it's really brilliant. That's it for our show this week. Special thanks to our friends at Team Coco. If you enjoyed this episode, please send it to someone you love. Be sure and check us out on YouTube, where you can watch full-length episodes. As always, subscribe on your favorite podcast app and give us a great rating and review if you're in the mood on Apple Podcasts.

Thank you. We'll have more for you next week, Where Everybody Knows Your Name. You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes. The show is produced by me, Nick Leow, our executive producers are Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and myself. Sara Federovich is our supervising producer, engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez.

Research by Alyssa Grahl, talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Bautista. Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Antony Yen, Mary Steenburgen, and John Osborne. You