Where Should We Begin? with Esther Perel - Esther Calling - My Partner's Privilege

Episode Date: November 11, 2021

This time there is no couch, but instead an unexpected phone call from Esther to a woman who is struggling with the differences between her and her partner's upbringing. He grew up in a comfortable suburb, she grew up having less, much less. She loves her boyfriend but wants to get past the resentment she feels towards the opportunities he’s had. Esther helps her think through how these differences might also play into new strengths between them. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every season for Where Should We Begin, I receive thousands of applicants. And one of the most frustrating things is that I'm only going to be able to see 10 couples. And I've been grappling with this. How can I connect with more of you? There are so many powerful questions, so many pain points that I would like to be able to at least address with you, even if shortly. So this series is going to be different. It's you calling me with a very precise question, with your pain point, me calling you back. And together we think out loud and we go from where should we begin to where can you start.

Hi. So I have been with my boyfriend for two years now. And I am super happy in this relationship but we are also very different we come from really different places I am middle eastern he's white I immigrated to this country when I was a kid grew up with a single mom lived in a multi-generational household, didn't have a lot of money growing up, and he had kind of the opposite upbringing. Like, grew up in the typical American sheltered suburb, and I knew that things weren't fair, that things were unequal on a lot of different levels, but it didn't really get to me. What I'm struggling with now is the feeling of how unfair it is, as opposed to just the knowledge of it. What is her question?

Her question is, how do you deal with, basically, pent-up resentment and anger in a relationship because of how you grew up, but especially around privilege? And what she says to me, and, which I thought was most interesting is that I didn't know how I grew up was any different for a long time until I started becoming, hanging out with American kids and realizing like, shit, that's not how I grew up. All right. I'm recording. She's here. Okay. Hi.

Hello, hello. How are you? Good, how are you? I'm fine, I'm fine. I was listening to your message and I thought, since you had some time after you left it as well, ask me the question again. So basically, I sometimes recently have been feeling resentful.

And I think that my resentment is towards kind of greater inequalities. But I think that I'm projecting those inequalities onto my boyfriend. What do I do with that resentment? How does the resentment speak? How does it manifest? I just get angry and I keep it inside. But I think it comes out in passive aggressive ways towards him, making him feel like he's doing something wrong in the little things that he does when really he's not doing anything. It just gets snippy with him. What does it say? How does it speak? What does it do? How does it snap? Like me talking to him? Like your resentment talking to him like your resentment talking to him it's kind of like

how dare you take advantage of the easy option when I have to do it the hard way keep going yeah it's like you don't understand how easy you have it and you don't appreciate what you have and I wish that you would just I wish it was harder for you too

if it was harder for you you'd understand a little more about how hard it is for me yeah is this a secret topic you'd understand a little more about how hard it is for me. Yeah. Is this a secret topic, a hidden topic, or is this out in the open? It's out in the open. It's relatively recently that I realized it's even a topic for me,

but it's out in the open. What triggered it? First, it was that we kind of work in similar fields and living together. I get to see just the ins and outs of his financial life and of mine, and he makes significantly more than I do. And then it was small things like taxes. Like his dad was able to pay for an accountant and I had to pay quite a bit of money for mine. And just learning more about his family's financial situation and comparing it to mine, our future together. And when you brought it up? I just said, like with the tax thing, I just brought up, I'm having some feelings around you, like not going with this accountant service and relying on your dad's accountant. Which then leads to, well, do you want me to not, do you want me to use the same service that you use even though I have this other option

available and of course it's not true but then we end up in this kind of quiet space of of like each hurting a little bit me because I have the resentment in him because he's like why is this can i ask you something sure if i asked him what drew you to each other would i hear something to the effect of she worked really hard to get to where she is i admire her strength ranked? Yeah, you would. I would. Okay. Yeah. So he is not oblivious to your reality. He understands that. Where did you come from? Iran. Okay. Does he know more than just the name of the country? Does he know a bit of the situation? Yeah. yeah, he knows quite a bit and he's very close with my mom. Okay, so basically you have a good start. I mean, he's not oblivious. He knows probably quite a bit about what it took to get here, what it took to start here. Is it fair to assume that you also put money aside to help your mother if she needs it?

Yeah, absolutely. Right. Your salary is not just for you. Your income is not only for you. And he probably respects it and maybe even admires it. Yes, so far? Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

Right. yes so far yes okay yeah absolutely right so when your resentment becomes activated and it wants to say you don't understand it is not exactly true it on the other side of resentment, sometimes is loss, longing, envy. Like, I wish I could have it sometimes easy like you. Not just, I wish you would have it as hard as very hard so you would understand what hard means to me. And it's not really sure that you even want him to have it so easy or that you want to have it so easy because as a part of you that probably admires your skills, your strengths, your grit. Yeah, that's totally true. I think there is quite a bit of envy in there. As we think about building our lives together, and suddenly there's this option to have it be easier, because I'm with someone who has it easier. That seems appealing. But at the same time, there's always in the back of my mind, the thought that if this ends, I'm back to my immigrant life. It's hard again.

And I'm envious that for him, it's kind of an option. He's opted into this, into thinking about this. And for me, it's not. But you're right're right i also i do feel strong and i am proud of myself and um and i i'm totally aware that that has come from what i've experienced in my life so it's complicated yes it's complicated it's layered it's not this or that and but you're right he chooses but you know what so have you because if i was asking you what drew you to him somewhere i'm imagining you tell me red whenever i'm going off track that you would also say that part of what you appreciate in him, A, is his curiosity and his deep interest in you and your life experience and your family's experience and the world and the politics outside of this country, etc.

And B, that he comes from a strong family. That's true. And that what draws you to him is his nuclear family, the kind of bonds they have with each other, the stability that that represents, the continuity in his family, kind of the opposite of the disruptions and the breaches that took place in your family.

Yeah. At the same time, his family did. They split up later than mine did, but they did. I don't think I could have been with him or anyone for that matter who hadn't had some of those issues in their own life. Which issues? Of a family divorce, of some kind of pain or something.

It sounds kind of harsh, but you know, something to compare it to, something to help you have empathy. It's not harsh. It's not harsh at all. Your family, the loss in your family came through divorce? Yeah, and separation.

Separation of what sort? Physical. My dad is not in this country. Right, but because by choice or by... By choice, yeah. There was a divorce and we came here. And what you say is having someone else who also experienced a breakup in the family, who also experienced loss and pain from within the family, is a point of identification that we have with each other that is very important to me. So he may come from privilege, but there is something about loss inside the family and what that feels like that we do share. And for me, knowing that someone had experienced some tragic element in his life was very important he wasn't just the coaster all over the place yeah he's not that guy and that yeah that is important to me okay so now you sit with him and you tell him you know i realize as we live closer together and we live in the same home, it's like I get to see what I had and what I didn't have by looking at you.

You probably do the same with me. And I get to see how you've come to expect certain things by virtue of how you grew up and same for me. And I get to see the way where we see the world as something that is stable and consistent, and the places where we see the world as more precarious and fragile. And this is not a problem that we need to solve. This is a reality that we learn to live with. Yeah, I guess, yeah.

I guess that's the answer right there. It's just ongoing. If you stay with this man, this will be accompanying your story for the rest of the duration of your story. And you either make it a complementarity where you sometimes envy him but also sometimes have lots of gratitude for it,

appreciation for it, joy for what it gives you, for you and your mother for that matter. Yeah. You know, because otherwise what happens is that one of the very things that drew you to each other then becomes the source of conflict. You wanted it, but now you are fighting with it. Do you have differences around wastefulness and things like that?

It's funny you use that word. Yeah, we do. Yeah, we do. I'm much more careful. And do you use it to snap at each other or do you see it as a difference or do you actually say i could learn a little bit from you yeah i think he's better at this than i am i'm i do kind of snap that like there's just there's not a mindset of abundance usually for me so it's hard to get out of that and I snap at him but I am he's he's so

much more like able to just accept that we're different um and and be happy about that and I'm trying I'm trying to do that too. Right. But I will tell you something. You didn't always want to have to be so frugal, so careful, so counting. But you had to. And a part of you wished you didn't have to. But a part of you is afraid that if you stop doing it,

since life could at any day put you back in scarcity mode, you better just keep on with the program. Yeah. It's not what he is or is not doing only. It's also what it evokes inside of you. Yeah. only it's also what it evokes inside of you yeah you see if you ask him to do the way you do it's because you're asking him to resolve your internal conflict if you do like me then i don't have to think about the fact that there isn't just this way of being.

Yeah. You got it? Yeah. All right. Is this a good start? Yeah, this is a start. Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm inviting you to go and have one of the first and many conversations that you need to have with him about this. But this is going to accompany the two of you. This is for the rest of your relationship. This is part of your relationship. It's in the mortar. It's not a problem that you need to solve. Yeah. Okay.

All right. Thank you. Good luck. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye. So I'm looking for many ways to stay connected with you as I continue to help you develop greater confidence and competence in your relationships.

This time, it comes in the form of a game. Where Should We Begin? A Game of Stories is a game that helps you connect and reconnect, deal with the social atrophy that so many of us have experienced and unlock the storyteller within. So gather your partner, your friends or your date. Grab a seat, pull a card, and be my guest in sharing the stories that you rarely tell.

Let's play along. estherperel.com slash the game