Where Should We Begin? with Esther Perel - Mothering My Mother Into Mothering Me

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

Since the age of 8, she’s been the one holding her mother together and shouldering adult responsibilities long before her time. Now, as an adult herself, she’s ready to step out of the caretaker role and invite her mother to finally be the parent. Esther helps her explore how to loosen these deeply entrenched dynamics and create space for a more balanced, reciprocal relationship. Esther Callings are a one time, 45-60 minute interventional phone call with Esther. They are edited for time, clarity, and anonymity. If you have a question you would like to talk through with Esther, send a voice memo to [e-mail]. Producer’s Note: When our anonymous guests do a session with Esther for the podcast, it is an act of generosity for everyone who listens. These sessions are meant not only to support the people in the room with Esther, but all of us who learn from their stories. Our stories have many chapters, and what you hear is just one moment in someone’s journey. So even though the sessions are anonymous, please remember that real people are behind them and they may be reading your comments. Also, please join me on Entre Nous, my new home on Substack for anyone who wants to live, love, and work with more connection and imagination. I invite you to sign up and become a free or paid member at estherperel.substack.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, Esther. I'm speaking to you in hopes that we can talk about the relationship my mother and I have. It's a complicated one, but simply put, I'm the mother in the relationship. My mother was a product of an arranged marriage. My parents love each other very much, but my mother is very sheltered growing up and was married and had a child by 23 without much. real-world experience herself. Then eight years later, after years of emotional abuse from my paternal grandparents, my parents moved to America. I quickly became the intermediary between the outside world and my mom. My father, who was busy with work and providing for his family, had little time to spend with us. And my mom, too incapable. my brother, too young, I became the emotional leader of my family.

I jokingly say I've been an adult since I was eight. This parentification strained many relationships. As I got older, I kept having hope that my mom and I could be both adults now, but that has also rarely happened. Me and my dad have become the caretaker of her emotional. needs. And if I were to be very harsh, I would say that she sees herself as the victim in all of this, the time that she had with our in-laws, not having the exposure to feel prepared for the outside world, not being able to speak English confidently, all of it kind of becomes

barriers to why she can't do something. And if I point out any of these things and how they impacted her children, she gets defensive and even starts guilting, you know, me so much so that it becomes my job to make her feel better. And this pattern keeps repeating and I don't know how to confront this part of my relationship with her. I love her very much and I have a lot of empathy for what she's gone through and try my best to like validate and understand her. But this is also something that's the undercurrent over every interaction I have with her. So any help to mend this part of our relationship would be very helpful. Thank you, Esther.

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Shop the same in-store prices online and enjoy unlimited delivery with PC Express Pass. Get your first year for $2.50 a month. Learn more at pceexpress.ca. have been thinking about that message that I sent you, and I've landed on the fact that I think I'm trying to mother my mother into mothering me. And I don't know if that's a fair thing to accept or expect that of her. And I think I'm trying to understand if I should let that go. But I do feel a lot of hurt, especially when I think about my thing.

my younger self. What comes to mind? The loneliness. The reason it's kind of like top of mind right now is my family loves to watch home videos and I hate to watch them because all I see is evidence of what life was like for me.

Evidence of? Evidence of a little. girl put in charge trying to sustain the well-being of her family in a new place with not a lot of like guidance and knowledge of how to do that. And as I got older, I think I started pushing back on some of those responsibilities. But I think it's met with some kind of like desperation of my help. And so then I help. I don't know how not to do that either. Did you write to us now because you were watching the home videos? So my partner and I went back home and my parents wanted to watch it with him. And my brother actually suggested we shouldn't do that. Doesn't make her feel

good. And then she wanted to validate if that was true, but she was also hoping that it wouldn't be, that it was not the case. So before I could even answer, it was about, oh, you know, I think you're fine, right? That doesn't bother you, right? He was saying that, but that's not true for you. And I think there was like a moment of, what do I say? Do I pretend or do I say the truth? And I chose to say the truth, you know, and not in a way that, you know, tried to point fault to anybody, but what seeing that made me feel. You know, I said it makes me feel sad for that person. And she could tell it was feeling like a criticism of her. and she wanted to rationalize it away.

I tried to explain that, yes, you weren't set up for success either, but that's not to say that I didn't experience those things. But I could tell it wasn't landing. And you were not surprised? Yeah, I wasn't surprised. I mean, she was acting according to... character yeah she does have moments of like understanding so sometimes i push hoping that i get a glimpse of that but if i don't i'm quick to stop trying what would you like would you like

to be better able to resist the tendency to rescue her at all times. Would you like acknowledgement of what happened in the past? Would you like for her to be able to let you have feelings and not always outdo you? Would you like your father to take you out of the triangle? Can I say all of the above? I would love all of that.

In one hour or less. But if I had to choose, I think it's, how do I stop feeling resentful? The resentment is for her limitations or for how she exploited you because of her limitations? Because that's what you feel. I was put in a position. I was too young. In effect, I kind of had to experience what she had experienced, not enough experience with the world yet, and a ton of responsibility put on me.

But it hasn't stopped. Yeah. It's gone from limitations to entitlement. Yeah. My resentment is where she is now. I don't have much about, yes, it makes me sad to see it. And, you know, but I don't feel. resentful about that.

Can I ask you for an example of a situation that you wish was different? Okay. I, you know, my parents, whenever they want to do something to the house, they want to make some kind of renovation adjustment, I'm always kind of like someone they hold up as, oh, having a lot of influence and power in the face. family, like, oh, let's check in with her and see what she says and then we'll do that. And oftentimes I feel important. You know, I feel like I'm contributing something. And so it's easy for me to feel like, oh, let me contribute. But that comes to me a lot to a point where, you know, why is my input in this important? And sometimes it's silly things like that,

but sometimes it'll be about their marriage. You know, and I have to, if my mom is feeling like something is not working, I become kind of like her counsel in the matter. Like, what should she do? Or feeling like she needs to tell someone about it. And sometimes, in the past especially, I would meddle, you know, and the pattern that we got into is my mom would complain to me. about my dad, I would go confront my dad. And then it became a fight between me and my dad. And then mom would come in and say, oh, it's not that big of a deal. Let's stop fighting. And you would feel undermined. Yeah. Because she set you up and then she didn't back you. Right. That is more than just parentified child. You put me in. I came to your rescue. you, and then you basically found a way to a lie with him against me.

Yeah, that's how it felt, yeah. And then in your head you say, come again, but I won't be there. I will not intervene anymore. I won't let myself be trapped like this, but then you do it again. It's gotten better where I could. now I had to tell her like your marriage is between you two you shouldn't be talking to your children like about it and then she would say but I don't have my family here

we are alone we left the extended family where in India in India and therefore of course who else would I be talking to if not my children but she talks primarily to you, not to your brother? Yeah. For both.

From me to you. Both, but also, I think she also has this perception that, like, oh, men can't handle the nuances of what I'm going through. Mm-hmm. So, tell me something. On the one hand, they come. I feel important. I feel respected. I feel that I can contribute.

On the other end, I feel that I've had to give my opinion about. a lot of things I know nothing about. Yeah. Which means I have to perform confidence. Oh, yeah, you had it nail on the head. That's my whole life. All right. And that probably didn't just stay in the house.

No. That accompanied you. Because you, you too. Are you born in America? No, I was born in India. And you came at what age? Eight. Eight.

So you too had to do a lot of learning and translating and figuring out the codes and all of that. There's a notion sometimes that the kids learn the language sooner, so they instantly are put as the official translators for everything administrative and all of the rest. See, when people say I had to be an adult since I was young, what does it actually mean, right? Yeah. What does it mean to have to perform confidence, to pretend? that you know when you don't, to never be able to say, I don't know, because if she doesn't know, she turns to you, but if you don't know, who do you turn to?

Right. Right. But I'm talking generically and you know your own experience. Yeah. I'm trying to find an example of something that embodies the adult part. it's a lot of logistics and coordinating in an admin kind of way but sometimes emotionally it's about getting her to understand something like how the world works or how relationships are or what a dynamic between two friends are supposed to be and sometimes it's that sometimes it's like

how to be a woman you know it's about teaching her how to dress or style herself or put herself out there or be confident. So that's why I feel like the mother. Like, I've taught her everything. But I'm asking you the flip side of this. I've taught her everything. And in effect, I've told her things I actually didn't really know much about. Right.

So I come to her with a sense of confidence that isn't through. True. I have to pretend with her that I know what she should do and she should wear and and I, but fundamentally, I myself, I'm winging it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's just my word. It is. That's how I'm imagining you, winning it. It's like, because it's not okay to say I don't know. Yeah. And is that true in other parts of your life too?

Does that become a challenge for you? It does. I've become very self-sufficient. If I don't know something, I'll go find out. But the concept of asking someone else, I don't know how to do that. And do you have your partner who came with you to visit home? How would he describe this? What does he do?

I'm very different with him. I feel like a child, I feel taken care of, in a sense that I can be soft and not put together all the time and not know all the answers. That is not just a child privilege. You can just say, I can let go with him, I can surrender, I don't have to know everything, I have somebody who I can rely on and who I can lean on. That's right. Nice.

Nice. We have to take a brief break, so stay with us. And let's see where this goes. Support for this show comes from Shopify. When you're starting your own business, Finding the right tool that simplifies everything can be a game changer. For millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world

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and your whole team can share one number and collaborate on calls and texts like a shared inbox. And if you can't answer the phone, Quo's AI agent can. That's why over 90,000 businesses, from solo operators to growing teams, are already using Quo. Try it for free when you go to Quo.com slash begin. That's QUO.com slash begin. You can even keep your existing number. Quo, no missed calls, no missed customers. Mom calls you, and what would be the next request?

I need what? Can you find me something related to some tasks that I have to do back home? Can you find out who I need to call, what I need to say, what questions I should ask? Okay. What would be the typical response? I'll get back to you. Let me figure this out. My recent responses has been, have you asked at GPT?

Mm-hmm. Because I don't know either. That's what I would do. Okay. And then what happens? She goes? She does. Yeah.

Recently, she does. And dad, does he step in? Yes. You know, but I think he's kind of constructed his life as, He goes to work, he's busy, so my mom is a stay-at-home mom, so she has the time. So all these kind of like questions of research either fall into her, but I also work, but sometimes they fall into me. One of the ways you don't engage. Because you're not, here's how I think this unfolds.

If you want to change the other, change yourself. If you tell her, go do this, she may on occasion. If you tell her, I'm so sorry. I wouldn't know where to begin. I'm sure you'll figure it out. That's good. I know that the last times you went to the chat, GPD, told you this, told you that,

and I actually learned from what you did. I very much enjoy learning from you. I don't think I've ever said that. I'm going to suggest to you a bunch of these, but the point of these statements is that they help you redirect and not fall into the I either have to become mean and rejecting and tell her no, or I have to do it, and then I resent her.

So it's a binary. I do what she wants and I'm upset with myself and I do what I want and I'm upset with her. Or reverse. I do what she wants and I'm upset with her. I do what I want and I feel guilty and I feel that I'm not a good daughter and that I'm not loyal

and that I'm betraying a set of other values that are very important to me. Yes. So how do you say no without saying no? Yeah. It's like, I wish I could help. I'm sure you will figure it out. I'd love to know what you decide.

But I need you help. So let's imagine it continues, but I need you too. That's a very good question. And I'm sure you will find the answer. It's not even go ask this person and go, it's, I know that, you know, You know, you have shown multiple times how clever, thorough, solution-oriented, competent. And all of this with an accent.

Yeah. I kept thinking of it as I have to push back. But entering, it's like no win. I push back I feel bad I do it I feel bad even talking to you I felt so guilty I imagined

it's this loyal right she is not responsible she did know better I mean you've found wonderful ways to excuse her constantly

so to the point where you don't feel you're entitled to have Felix. They don't exclude each other. You can totally be empathic and understand her and excuse her and understand her circumstances and at the same time feel that she took it too far, or even if she didn't take it too far, that it left you in a sometimes very burdensome situation. Many children of immigrant parents often find themselves in that situation. It's not an uncommon situation, But it's not always even about, you know, in the beginning, there's an immigration story. And on occasion, there's an immigration reality. But after, what, 20-something?

30. 30, okay. So 30 years. Right? We've lived here now, we wonder, right? It's like you know viscerally when the story is true and when the story is being used for a fact. it's it's a crutch almost you see the interesting thing is that you actually will have an easier time if i can use those words to love mom you will love her better yeah instead of this

fight yes yeah it also feels emotionally less burdensome to like try to carry around either guilt or shame and obligation like I think that was kind of where I was putting myself it's like oh either way I'll feel a negative emotion but if I don't engage then I don't have to give me another example the example that comes to mind um when my mom's mom passed I went home to be with her and what happened when I went is that my dad kind of disengaged from providing that support and my brother didn't come so it became like her grief was mine to hold and support and I didn't think that was going to happen I thought we as a family would come do it together and I found myself kind of holding it for her you know and what had been to you then? I feel burdened that, oh, I'm alone in having to do this.

I was also grieving, but I had to be strong. I don't know, I think I expected my dad and my brother to also kind of emotionally be there as well. And do you ask them? I didn't at the time. and you didn't because what happens how much do you forget yourself once her reality inhabits you and becomes entirely your reality that you can no longer have any awareness of any of your own needs or needs for her for that matter that's exactly what happened i just got focused on i'm here okay fine i'll help her

Were you just you alone with her or did you bring some of her other supports? Just me and her. Why? You know, I think someone in the community found out and they wanted to provide some kind of support. And actually, I think they called and she didn't want anyone else to know.

She was surprised that someone found out and she wanted to kind of become a recluse and asked that person not to share it with anyone else. But she was not the only one going through the grief. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't even consider that. I know.

I know. I see it. Her feelings feel so big. I don't know how to have space for mine. Right. I had a reputation earlier in my family that I was just angry all the time. I think it was maybe the only thing. feeling I couldn't control?

Sometimes it's not so much that anger is the feeling we can control, but holding on to anger feels is a way of feeling that we at least are holding on to some of our needs. Ah, yes, yes. To be angry is a way of remembering yourself. Yeah. To be angry is a buffer. And I think that there are other ways to do it that don't demand you to be angry.

Yeah. That don't rely on anger as the way to maintain a space for yourself, as you say. Yeah. When you are crying now, they don't know that side of you? They only know the... I don't have no idea what the angry side looks like.

I haven't seen an Ayota of it. Yeah. I actually don't, for a long time, I didn't know how to express anger. The anger that they're referring to is me being slightly moody, distant, maybe a little snappy. But no, I don't yell. But it's an effective angle. Because you snap and then you do. Yeah.

You snap and you comply. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Versus to actually work diligently on maintaining that space. Yeah. I understand you do not want other people to know. We have different ways of grieving.

For me, other people being here with us, coming to sit with us, bringing food to us, whatever the rituals are, the rituals are that a part of your culture and tradition would help me a lot. My initial reaction to that is that feels very selfish. I know that's bad, but it's probably why. Like, I've been conditioned so much to even say something like that sounds selfish. What about it? I'm not surprised, but what about it? I think something is, some of it is also cultural.

Like there's no such thing as individual needs. Right? It's, it's very much what does the family need? Yeah, but she didn't think about that either. I don't want anybody to know it's not a cultural need. Yeah. Right. You know, you probably know that's from having,

I heard me at other times, I give tremendous room and space and respect for cultural values. You do. But I also have learned that in families, we sometimes do cultural camouflage. Yes. Yes. Yeah? It's like, we don't do this. Our culture, we don't do this.

We use the culture to make a point that has not much to do with the culture itself. she doesn't want anyone to know that is not actually the cultural value when you say this is happening to the whole family we are all going to a loss and we are all grieving we need the support we can get and you can say it in the we yeah you are not usurping yeah her needs and you are not imposing your individual americanized selfish self-centered yeah right right what is What other words I used? Americanized is definitely one. There's a big kind of like what I want I do.

So it's very interesting. If you assert some of your needs toward mom, you instantly will feel selfish. Yes. Mom instantly will experience you as defiant. Yes. So the system is well put in place to make sure, finish my sentence to keep everyone in their place.

Yeah. Yeah. My invitation is a both end. Okay. Right. It's not me versus you. Right. Both end is we are all grieving.

It's a big, big, big loss. Differently for different people, but let's say it's a big loss. Is it? Yeah. Yeah, I see the pattern. I see the flash of images that you, what I just experienced. There is so much that she expects the family to kind of do in terms of accommodating to her. And I see that as like one force kind of pulling me into what is expected of me.

And then to your point, I feel like I build up anger and resentment. and then I snap and then I rebel and then find a way for me to feel comfortable, complying. Walk me through it. There was a lot of pressure on me, especially in my early 20s, to be a good Indian daughter that wants to get married. And in our culture, a lot of that,

everything about us is policed in that quest. and hair is a big one so everyone feels very committed to how long your hair should be because hair represents femininity and it should be long and and you know luscious or whatever and every once in a while I'll go cut it and one day I cut it off completely I had a pixie cut essentially like something that a fuck you cut a Fuck-you-cut. Exactly. A fuck-you-cut. I did it because I wanted it, and I didn't ask for permission or, you know, anything. And that delayed to your prospect of marriage by how many years? Well, considering I'm still not married pending. I think it was a big fuck-you to the family, to the expectations, to my mom's expectations of me, the culture, all of it. And I felt like, so here's a rebellious act that says, fuck you, and now I'm going to bring them on to my side. I'm going to say, it's just hair, it grows back, I'm young, I'm too young

to be married anyway, and so I go on this campaign, and then sometimes they do come around, and, you know. I acted out, but I'm a good girl, and a good daughter anyway. I had an act of rebellion, but I'm still loyal, beautiful. Oh, yes. Breaks my heart. But yes, that's been the pattern. We are in the midst of our session, and there is still so much to talk about.

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dot substack.com. This week on Networth and Chill, we're joined by Cole Walliser, the self-taught Canadian filmmaker who turned a $250 dance reel editing gig into a Hollywood Empire. The mastermind behind the iconic glam bot on red carpets, Cole has captured slow-motion magic with everyone from Lady Gaga to Katie Perry, building a brand that Time Magazine just recognized as one of the 100 most influential digital creators of 2025. Cole gets real about monetizing viral moments,

the business strategy behind those mesmerizing slow-motion celebrity shots, and how he's built multiple revenue streams while staying true. true to his work hard and be nice philosophy. The moment where I feel like I kind of made it was when I bought a house off making videos. And I was like, I remember going to sleep and I'd be like, this is crazy. Like I wanted to, I grew up in Vancouver and wanted to go to L.A. to, like, direct. And then here I am, like, laying in my bed in this house that I bought by making videos. I was like, this seemed in, just impossible.

Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com slash your rich BFF. Is your partner from the same culture? No. He's black. And how has the family received that? Not the fact that he's black as much as the fact that he's not from the culture. It's both. It's both.

My parents wanted me to have an arranged marriage for early in my 20s. That perception slowly changed as I think they just got more aware of what dating is like. And so they sat me and my brother down maybe in our mid-20s to say, you can marry, date, whoever you want. But I think that whoever you want had parentheses of, you know, what's accepted. I don't think they expected me to bring home a black man. My dad never really voiced an opinion, but I think my mom. mom was shocked.

Yeah. And I essentially told her, I understand your feelings towards it, but it's not mine to carry with you. I can't help you process that. And she did it, I guess, probably with the help of my brother. She probably sourced it over there. My extended family doesn't know that I'm dating anybody. Why is that? I have to go back a little.

When we moved to America, my paternal grandparents thought that was a big mistake, especially to raise a daughter in America. So much so that they sent a newspaper clipping of Girls Gone Wild to my parents to say this is the future you've established for her. I think what is considered honorable is moving, changing, within the community. And within my family, you know, dating is okay, but let's get married. And if we're on the track to marriage, then we'll tell people. But I think it's mostly her. She doesn't want to share yet. It would be the same if it was an Indian man?

No, it would not be. So let's put the dots where they belong. Yeah. Here's another one. Mom, I very much can see the bind that you are in. On the one hand, you want to give me the freedom that you know I need and that raising your children in America entails. And on the other end, you don't want your wicked in-laws.

to tell you that you failed and they were right all along. I see the bind, and I have a lot of respect for how you have to deal with it, period. I'll tell you what I'm thinking. Usually, when I make a decision that they don't agree with, and it's not that they don't agree, but maybe they have some apprehend. about how other people feel about it. I have to coach them on what to say. Yes.

And so to not do that would be great. So basically, what should your mom say to the extended family in order for the extended family not to berate her, to put her down, to criticize her to feel threatened because everybody is supposed to participate in the maintaining of the status quo. of the status quo. That is part of the collectivist culture. Okay?

If you approached her with this, I see the bind you're in. And you have so much experience with this bind. It's been 30 years you navigate this. I don't nearly have that kind of experience. My experience is about doing the things I want and not having to feel too guilty for putting you in the bind.

But I don't know how to handle the bind. it's like I need to behave a certain way so that you can stand proud in front of the people that stayed in India and told you not to come or any other situation like that it's constantly intergenerational and we're only addressing three there may be more

so if you say I have a lot of respect for the kind of complexities that you have to deal with period nothing else then what play it with me she'll get anxious

yeah she'll say well she's she'll say I don't know what to say I don't want to put I don't want to have that conversation I don't blame you yeah they're not always very understanding they don't live between two cultures

the way we do and for them things are more clear I don't blame you period you should ask her to ask chat GPT we should have the chat right now comparing notes with us I don't think I ever thought that not doing something was an option I know that but you're doing something you're just not doing the thing that you have been assigned and have gotten used and have taken on to consistently do you're doing something you're actually, what it's called in jargon, you're actually doing a slight differentiation from

her. This is your dilemma. And there's not a word I've said that isn't true. She has more experience than you. Right. Yeah. This is her dilemma. This is their dilemma. I'm sure you and that will discuss and find the right way to approach this. I want my partner choice to be celebrated. And it feels like a more peaceful stance. I understand that it's hard for you, Mom, to tell them how happy you are for me. And I understand how hard it may be for you to tell me that you can't tell me you're happy for me because you're constantly having to deal with the voices from abroad.

Yeah. That's a dilemma. I hope that by the time we make a decision you find a way to come around meaning you speak to her like an adult it's the same as when people have decided that someone is an income poop you know

they've decided this person is incompetent so they all the time talk to their incompetence me I'm doing that Mm-hmm. They don't talk to the whole person. Yeah. And I think I feel bad about the person that I am when I'm confronted with it. Like, I don't see her whole. I definitely see the deficiency and then I'm frustrated. And then I'm frustrated with the person that I am in that moment. Yeah. But your mom has, you know, 30 years of experience. So, you know, there's a whole journey. Yeah. In a way, you've all been convinced by the fears. But the fears live in a larger frame. There's a lot of other things about this woman.

And the invitation is for you to speak to the whole person. I like that. She says, I don't know what to say. I say, yes, there are difficult conversations to have. You don't jump in and instantly offer whatever she needs to say. say because you don't actually have a clue it's never been your dilemma you don't really know what to say I mean yes you can come up with all kinds of smart things you're very smart but in effect she knows more about it than you I don't think I've ever known any of the right

things with what she's going through I'm guessing at best so you just say Say, nobody knows this as well as you. Now, this is not always going to be received. Oh, thank you. That is so nice. Because you're loosening a pattern. And all you need to do is focus on your part of the pattern. Okay.

And stay consistent and kind and respectful and loving. We're not in a confrontation here. Right. What if she can't get what she needs from me and then tries to get it from somewhere else within the family, maybe brother, dad? That's her choice? Yeah. You're not there to be the conductor. She should be asking her husband.

Why not? He's the partner. Right. And you can say, I'm sure that you will find the right resources to help you. you figure this out. I wish I could tell you, I don't know. Now, what's different is that you're not saying, I wish you didn't ask me. Or you're not saying, why should I be the one to tell you? Every time you come to me, you think I have any idea? I don't know anything. No, there's no need to react because what you're doing is you're disengaging. Yeah. Esther, this is going to be

life-changing. Well, you'll let me know. I don't know. I hope. It's step, step, huh? Yeah. At least my own, like, I get caught up in this, like, pattern over and over again. And I play the same part, and she plays the same part. Correct. Correct. And we start, I mean, you know, there in many ways, to approach this. We could do a whole analysis of it. We could try to understand it. We could look at the attachment story. I think today I thought when I listen to your question,

I would want to start with actually diluting the rigidity of the interaction. And suggesting some tools that allow you to respond not from the reactive place in which you either resent, angry, guilty, feel bad about you, feel bad about her. It's set already. That has taken 30 years too. So how do you speak to an adult? And how do you not perform false confidence? Because you are afraid that if you don't instantly step in, she will be all alone.

Yeah. And so, as a result, you are weeping, feeling all alone yourself. Nobody needs to be all alone. Right? One doesn't compensate for the other. And at some point, you'll have a conversation with your father if that's possible. What do I say? As I start another life for myself, as I have my own relationship,

you're going to be more needed in the house we are about to go through another transition married or not married it doesn't matter yeah i stepped in when you were often gone at this moment you will step in as i am about to step out a little more yeah i haven't thought of that i felt like everywhere was burdened already. Let me do my part to unburden some people.

You can do that. The goal is not to never do that. You'll do that too, but you won't be caught. Yeah. You can blend duty and choice. I hadn't thought that

as an option either. I think right now I choose and then I justify the choice. Thank you so much. This has been really eye-opening, and I felt like we were in this, like, stuck space, and you just kind of, like, added a jiggle and we're unstuck. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Take care. You too. Bye-bye. This was an Esther calling, a one-time intervention phone call, recorded remotely from two points somewhere in the world. If you have a question you'd like to explore with Astaire, could be answered in a 40- or 50-minute phone call.

Send her a voice message, and Esther might just call you. Send your question to, producer at esteraparelle.com. Where should we begin with Esther Perel is produced by magnificent noise? We're part of the Vox Media Podcast Network in partnership with New York Magazine and The Cut. Our production staff includes Eric Newsom, Destry Sibley, Sabrina Farhi, Kristen Muller, and Julianette. Original music and additional production by Paul Schneider.

And the executive producers of where should we begin are Esther Perel and Jesse Baker. We'd also like to thank Courtney Hamilton, Mary Alice Miller, and Jack Saul. Thank you.