Whiskey Ginger with Andrew Santino - David Chang

Episode Date: September 20, 2024

David Chang is a culinary trailblazer, known for redefining modern dining with his bold, flavor-packed dishes. As the founder of the Momofuku restaurant group, he's pushed boundaries in the kitchen, blending innovation with comfort food. Beyond his eateries, Chang's a dynamic media personality, award-winning author, and host of hit shows like "Ugly Delicious," where he explores the world through the lens of food with honesty and humor. His fearless approach and commitment to challenging culinary norms have made him a leading voice in the food industry. #davidchang #whiskeyginger #podcast #andrewsantino =========================================== Sponsor Whiskey Ginger: https://public.liveread.io/media-kit/whiskeyginger SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS SQUARESPACE Get that site up and running now! 10% off your order https://squarespace.com/whiskey ======================================= Follow Andrew Santino: https://www.instagram.com/cheetosantino/ https://twitter.com/CheetoSantino Follow Whiskey Ginger: https://www.instagram.com/whiskeyging... https://twitter.com/whiskeyginger_ Produced and edited by Joe Faria IG: @itsjoefaria Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What up, Whiskey Ginger fans? Welcome back to the show. It's your first time joining the show. Welcome to the show. Got a good one for you today and also great news. I'm adding shows on tour. So excited. So, so excited.

Come see your boy. Indianapolis, Charlotte, Pacola, that's in Oklahoma, by the way, Waukee, Iowa, Omaha, Nebraska, Kansas City, Mo, Cleveland, Elizabeth, Indiana, St. Louis, Grand Rapids, Detroit, Nal and San Antonio, Chicago, Cleveland, Elizabeth, Indiana, St. Louis, Grand Rapids, Detroit, New Orleans, San Antonio, Chicago, my home, Durham, North Carolina, Atlanta, Charleston, Philly, New York, Phoenix, San Francisco, we added another show in San Francisco, San Diego,

we're gonna add another show in San Diego very soon, and Boston, we've already added two more shows, Minneapolis, we're adding another show. Having a lot of fun, go to AndrewSantino.com for those tickets, andrewsantino.com. In here, we pour whiskey. Whiskey, whiskey, whiskey, whiskey. You are that creature in the ginger beard. Sturdy and ginger.

Like that, the ginger gene is a curse. Ginges are beautiful. You owe me $5 for the whiskey, $75 for the horse. Ginger's a hell no. This whiskey is excellent. Ginger. I like gingers. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Whiskey Ginger.

My guest today is one of my favorite people on Earth. I say that for all my guests, but I mean it once again today. It's David Chang. Thank you for coming to the show. Excited to be here. Pick this up and have a little cheers. Just a little cheers to you. A little something something to whet our whistle. Mmm.

Very nice. You remember the first time you got drunk? I do. Give it to me. 13 years old, we got somebody's brother, my friend's brother, to buy a tea bird. Tea bird? Yeah, remember tea bird? What's tea bird?

No, am I crazy? It's like a, it's like a. You're only a little bit older than me. Yeah, it's like wine you'd get at like 7-Eleven. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. I'm thinking the world of alcohol. Yeah, it's shitty wine. Shitty wine.

Yeah, it's shitty wine. And we all drank like two bottles of it. And you were gone. We slept in a bunker. Did you throw up? We all fell asleep in a sand trap. And you were gone. We slept in a bunker. We all fell asleep in a sand trap at a golf course. Really? That's what we were drinking, yeah.

People do that, this is funny. I drank next to a golf course. I drank in the forest preserve next to a golf course. My buddy Matt, shout out Matt Mitchell, we stole rum from his dad. Rum stuff. It was like shitty rum garage rum you know in the midwest we all have like

people keep stuff in their garage so we do this thing called garage hopping if you knew that but like in back in the day you just leave your garage open kids would come and go bikes in it so we go in there because there was always a fridge in there and they always had shitty booze in the garage so it was a stolen rum was our first go-to he threw up I think I

did I don't think I did I definitely threw up yeah you did all all night all day yeah yeah you have the do you have the Asian thing where you drink alcohol and you turn red I did if I did I would drink every day till it would disappear yet to make an excuse for all these Asian people they're like oh I can't drink like that's unacceptable what is it called what is. So there's no fucking excuse for all these Asian people. They're like, oh, I can't drink. That's unacceptable. You gotta try harder. What is it called? There's like a name for it.

Red Face or I don't even know. No, that's what they call me. That's what Asians call me, Red Face. No, I don't know, but people drink Pepsi or they take like a Pepsi to AC and that sort of inhibits the enzyme. Sure, sure, sure. But some people have it, some people don't.

I don't even understand what makes it, I didn't do any research into it, so I know nothing about it. But I people have it, some people don't. I don't even understand what makes it. I didn't do any research into it, so I know nothing about it. But I do have Asian friends that are like, I can't, I'm not gonna, like they get, like here it's like crazy red under their eye up to their temples. Well, I'm not friends with any of them, so.

Yeah, good, you're not a bitch. You're not a bitch. For people that don't know you, which is a very small faction of human beings, you're remarkably successful. Bob and I just did your show on Netflix, which was incredible. I appreciate you feeding us.

I gained seven pounds after I, I'm not kidding, seven pounds I weighed. You guys crushed a lot of food. It was so good, man. But you're a purveyor of fine foods, a businessman, a sweet guy. I've eaten at your restaurants before I even knew you. Phenomenal. And now you're off to the races with shelf ramen that you have. You've sold commercially.

I mean, you're... What's next, dude? It was 20 years in the making, right? Yeah. No, it was an overnight success. You made it overnight, and I'm not really working in the kitchens anymore. I'm still involved with it, but Day to day we have someone else running it someone that's awesome But I think I'm focusing on a little media stuff, and I don't know Podcasting this TV show, but what's I I think for you, like, to come from your world, I watched a documentary on the plane ride back

from Budapest about Charlie Trotter. Oh, right. And how do you feel, for people that don't know Charlie Trotter, I've talked about him, I think, on this before, because the documentary is fascinating. He is such a polarizing creature, and being a kid from Chicago, it was kind of like a name that you had heard

was synonymous with like a local car dealership. You know what I mean? In my mind where you heard it so much, you're like, who is this guy? When I was a kid. And how did your industry feel about that guy? For those that don't know, Charlie Trotter passed away a few years ago.

There's a documentary that I haven't seen about him. It's pretty good. And I think a lot of chefs don't like watching documentaries about other chefs. Sure. Because it's very like triggering to some degree. Yeah. But Charlie was instrumental. One of the key figures in making American food, fine dining food, amazing.

He was one of the first chefs to bring like Japanese sensibilities. He had his restaurant called Charlie Trotter, and he produced a lot of great chefs that worked for him. He was notorious for being old school. Old school means being a hard ass yeller. Made beautiful food, made beautiful books. But you either loved or hated Charlie.

Right. And I think he sort of mellowed out in his old age, but, you know, I've met him a handful of times. Oh, you did? Oh, yeah, I've eaten at Charlie Trotter for lunch, because Chicago's got a fantastic food scene, and I was just a little bit in awe of this guy that was on Mount Rushmore of Cooking. Yeah.

And he never really pursued the traditional fame. He had a restaurant in... Vegas? I think he ran a restaurant in Vegas. He definitely had a restaurant in Cabo San Lucas. Oh yeah, that's right, Cabo, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and he did have a terrible meal there. But, you know, he was just this figure that you had reverence for.

Right. Right. An OG. And there's a collection of those chefs from, say, the 80s to 90s that really put American food on the map, and he was certainly one of them. Now, do you think that old-school shit that you're talking about the kind of brash harsh? The the the tutelage that was kind of like tough as you know tough shit is that gone

It's definitely been phased out I've certainly gotten in trouble for being a yeller And I've always been honest about my yelling and I'm'm so sorry to all the kids that I yelled at, because that's just how I grew up. My parents, my football, all the coaches, and it's not an excuse, but I just thrive in that environment. I need to be yelled at.

Yeah, pressure makes diamonds. Yeah, and that, I would think the biggest change that's happened in the cooking world besides say the internet is the professionalization So like for example, do you know? Do you care how say co-workers in West Virginia are talking to each other? No, no, why would I and the funny thing is? 20 30 years ago the word foodie didn't exist. Yeah, right. Right? No one fucking cared. Right. No one cared.

No, food was a thing you just went and had. And look at historically the people that have made food since the beginning of time. Yeah. It's not been a celebrated profession. Most people, when I started to cook, I remember being the only college educated kid, and I was a religion major.

Were you? Yeah. But then you went to culinary school afterwards. Yeah. But everyone was like, everybody was like, hey, do the numbers for this month. I was like, you do not want me doing the numbers. It was just like, hey, having a college educated kid was not something that professional,

when I say professional, kitchens like high end, ambitious places had. And it just has changed dramatically. And now I'd say like almost every top kitchen in America at least hasn't won Ivy League graduating. Really? Yeah. Like a Harvard kid or like really?

And the irony is they're not good at it. Well, dude, just cause you go to Harvard doesn't mean you're gonna be a good cook. And just because you're a good cook doesn't mean you're of, right, it's like anything with our world is the same thing. Any type of like high pressure professionalism, I always have a great parallel with standup because whether or not people know it,

the pressure is absurd for us and the testament of success is longevity during pressure. So the reason that I get attracted to things like that and have such reverence for, you know, people like you, you in particular, is because it takes a shitload to get to where you need to go. And it's so many barriers. It's so much nonsense and noise to finally crack through to something.

And I think it's, it's, it's just a testament of like hard work and will. And I do think it doesn't matter if you grew up rich or poor or you went to a good school or you had great training. I think you have to have something special inside, but it's truly how well do you work with shitty situations, tough shit? How well do you work under unfortunate problems? In stressful situations, like I'm a spaz normally, excuse me in in stressful situations like I'm a spaz normally excuse me in stressful situations

Especially in a kitchen my like a psychopath my heart rate like drops. You know go down. I'm like let's fucking go That's insane. You know yeah, and I'm still scared, but I'm I'm like thriving on the moment right and I've learned like like Comedians I'm friends with a lot of comedians and a lot of comedians are broken people. Yes, yes we are. A lot of broken people in a variety of fields, but cooking certainly has broken people as well. Sure. And I think when you get into a kitchen,

why I loved it is you have people in high end, best in the class, kinds of restaurants that can't pay the bills, that have a trash bag as their suitcase, that don't have just a mattress on the floor. It looks like it's a crack den where they live. They are incapable of taking care of themselves outside of the kitchen, but when they're in the kitchen, they put on the whites,

it's like they're brain searching. And it's a remarkable transition. But when you put all these different pieces of walks of life together, it dawned on me like, oh, the reason why I sort of never fit in trying to do normal mainstream stuff is I'm a weirdo too. And you get a collection of weirdos together doing something remarkable, and I'm a very competitive too. And you get a collection of weirdos together doing something remarkable,

and I'm a very competitive person, I love team sports, that's what hooked me in. And I mean, the world of cooking is under a microscope now. So I think the old ways have been phased out. And I was in the transition of basically the last generation that saw the craziest shit. Yeah. I mean, the craziest shit.

You wanna give any stories about any wild shit? I don't even know. I mean. Because you were in New York for a long time. And New York had to been kind of a pressure cooker of chaos. At the time, yeah. Just because culturally, New York is just get it done, hurry up. There's no time for bullshit.

If you... The best restaurants in New York, there are amazing restaurants around the world, and there's pressure across the board. And I've seen the craziest shit in Japan, I've seen the craziest shit in Japan, I've seen the craziest shit in Europe, like crazy stuff. But New York was different than everywhere else because in New York, if you're not doing two to three turns a night,

turns means that there's 80 seats in the dining room, you're doing three. 24, 240 people is what you're saying. You flip the room three times. Sometimes it's four turns, sometimes it's five turns. That's disgusting. And you have to, you're looking at the clock and that's the one thing the bear just crushes,

like they really nail the concept of time in the kitchen because it moves so slow that it feels like war, right? Every turn feels like, oh, I have to resupply, I have to get ahead. And you have to execute at a very high level at a high level of speed, and it's probably harder than anywhere else in the world. That's what I think.

In the kitchen. Yes, and the difference is, is say in other countries, say old school France, one team. So a brigade, it's all been based. Another thing is the cooking world was based on the French military system. Yeah, it sounds like war, the brigade. And I mean, the military system, regardless of where you are,

it's not like a, you know, treat everybody as nicely as possible. No, it's, this is your rank and get in line. Hey, dumbass, you do this, get in line, you know? And you would have one team that would get in in the morning. Honestly, I know stories of people that would say, like Joel Robichon, one of the greatest chefs in the world who passed,

people would get in like five in the morning. They'd work till like 10 in the morning, take a break, then get ready for a lunch service at 11 a.m. and then close at 1 p.m., scrub down the stations, take a little break, 15 minute break, then prep again for dinner service, all the way to say 12.30, leave the restaurant at 1. And come back at four. Yeah, and then travel far, because cooks aren't living close leave the restaurant at one. And come back at four.

Yeah, and then travel far, because cooks aren't living close to the restaurant. And I know that seems like hyperbole, but that's not like, it's not an insane thing. That doesn't happen anymore. And that's a good thing. Yeah, these people are killing themselves. But it just, today, the world of cooking

is a vastly different place for the better, because it's now like a normal, it feels like a, not a corporate job, but it's not the way it was. Sure. You think love is lost? I would say, my criticism of today is that there's so much knowledge at younger cooks' disposals I would say, my criticism of today is that there's so much knowledge at younger cooks' disposals that they should know

and they should be better than us. Because you'd have to work at a kitchen. You know, I would have a friend who moved to France to work at Alain Ducasse's restaurant, another great French chef, at Plaza Athene. No, no, he did Plaza Athene, but before that, he was in Monaco, his three Michelin star restaurant, and he sent me a letter, postcard,

because that's how it was back in the day, and he was like, all I'm doing is using Ajax to scrub everything. That was his job for six months. He didn't do anything except clean the kitchen. And then it was a slow, so it was a very slow trickle of gaining knowledge about how to cook something. And now, you can spend time in a kitchen for two weeks, learn something, quit, and move to another restaurant.

So it's similar to say like, college kids in sports today that have the freedom to just transfer wherever they want. And then you can go to another restaurant. So it's similar to say like college kids in sports today that have the freedom to just transfer wherever they want. You're right, yeah, you keep jumping around. Again, good, but simultaneously sorely bad for the quality of things. Right.

But you know, I think that the struggle for learning how to do something. You know, we'd finish work, you know, I worked at Catholic Balloon, we'd finish work at like 12, 30, go to the bar, lots of drinking. We'd talk about work, we'd talk shit, because that's another thing about cooking. It's about trying to hurt someone's feelings

as much as you can possible, right? That is what the humor is. A healthy kitchen, in my opinion, is one where there's a lot of comedy. You drink crack jokes, and then we'd be like, hey, let's go down to Wiley-Dufresne's restaurant, 71 Clinton, so we take the subway down, and it's closed, and we're just reading the menu.

Because there was no internet, there was no website. And we'd talk to ourselves, like, how do you think he's doing that? That technique and that dish. And that bond and that struggle to imagine how something was created, I think is crucial to development of creatively. And now everything is like, I can watch YouTube video,

I could see social media, I could look at the dish in numerous different ways. And because it's right there, it's as difficult as being a well-adjusted kid that has a multi-million dollar trust fund. It's hard, hard to do when things are just given to you. So I don't know what's gonna happen next, but it's not criticism.

How do you try to intentionally learn the hard way when everything is like at your fingertips? When the hard way has kind of been blocked off. It's almost like that road is closed. We live that. I mean, we live that in spades. I mean, we talk about that in comedy where, again, the comparisons I will continue to do,

it's like, nobody. I don't care how much you hate a famous comedian, if somebody goes, that person sucks, she's not funny, he's not funny, nobody that's on, that's making it at a large scale, just walk through. It has never happened, it will never happen, it's impossible. Do you have to have a long-standing strife

to get into the game and to stay in the game, then get recognized, then get promoted, then gain fan base? It's almost impossible to do that, particularly for our generation. Now, it's different now because the internet gets people fan bases quicker, for sure, but what was so important, I think, when we were young was gathering together at Cantor's or at Swinger's or Greenblatt's and talking shit and eating food at two in the morning. You know, why do you, I wanna know about that. Did you see him do that set?

And it was kind of the same thing. And I'm not saying like our way was better, but in the old, I hear my dad and me going, it just made you stronger of a comic. It made you stronger, a comic it made you stronger made these relationships better created a community like it did all the same things and it's changing now for us because people the internet has given weight to quickly seeing someone and developing and you know and that's

couldn't be a good thing if if they really put in the effort but yeah it doesn't have that it doesn't have those speed bumps. Right, maybe I'm jealous. Yeah, a little jealous, yeah. Because I'm jealous, and I don't want anyone to be like, oh, you're just, no, I just, that's just how I learn, and I don't understand how I would do it today.

Me neither, oh no, yeah, no, I don't know either. But like, I talk to my friends that are comedians, and they are perplexed as the younger generation that are working jokes on social media. They just don't know how to make it work. That they're growing up, building an audience in a completely different way and at a much faster pace. 100%, it's quicker.

Now the question I have for you is, do you think they're better today, the younger generation that are starting out, than when you started out? It's tough. Well, it's just, I don't know. I think it's probably just, comedy is so a moment in time.

So what's funny then doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna be funny now. And so the problem that they face that I think is harder for younger comics is maybe the same thing with younger chefs. The Internet is faster than you'll ever be. So whatever joke that you think is great or whatever bid or take or whatever that you've got, the Internet's taking it right now. It's got it. I promise. Especially if it's something social, if it's political or a news story or like the Titanic, the guys that got died going to see the Titanic.

There's been a thousand people that wrote memes and jokes and bits about that before you could even try it out on stage. So the problem is they're facing, the competition is, the digital ghost land. Who knows who the fuck wrote it who started pushing that joke around and it circles faster than you could ever get to it. So their challenge is, how do you stay super original when the internet is funnier and faster than fucking everybody? It's so fast.

A kid in Virginia can write a joke today about something that just happened about JD Vance. You could try to go do that on stage tonight and try to work that into a bigger set to build an hour. It's already gone away. Like that's the hard, I think that's the hardest thing that young generation faces is, unless you are uniquely you,

and your own voice and opinion and viewpoint on the world, the internet's quick, it's so fast. That's crazy you just said what you said. Uniquely you. I say that shit all the time. I think the best thing that happened to me was I wasn't in food. I didn't have this epiphany that I need to be a chef I did a variety of jobs. I did so much different shit. What's the worst job you had? Oh my god

summer camp counselor for a muscular dystrophy camp Yeah, dude. Yeah, what how did you land there? Yeah, did you have someone in your family with muscular dystrophy? No, it's a longer story of how I had, I went to a Jesuit high school, I had to. Mom and dad were like, you're going to a, yeah. Korean immigrants, yes? I just had, yes. And I had to take care, it was the saddest thing.

Yeah. The saddest thing. It still is one of the saddest, most depressing things I've ever been a part of. Whole bunch of kids that are on their way to becoming Incompatible in movement or are already there there and I had to like an orderly clean up after everything Literally shit. Yeah a lot of shit that was the hardest but I'd also say like the most humbling Best thing I was able to do but also from barkeep to like all kinds of stuff so it was the most humbling Yeah, it was the most humbling job you've ever did a bunch of shit man

I I worked at you pain Weber when it's still pain Weber as I try to get a job in finance But my grades were too fucking bad I taught English in Japan like I did all there's a book called Range by David Epstein, and it's fantastic because I didn't realize that my life, as long as you keep on fucking moving and doing shit and not being a wuss about it and falling flat on my face all the time, it gave me a wealth of failure. I failed fantastically.

But doing things, traveling. I lived in a homeless shelter in Japan, because that was the only way I could afford to cook there. And I saw the underbelly of Japan that nobody, no social media influence will ever see. And all of those experiences gave me a point of view. Being like the only Asian kid in Northern Virginia, like, and not fitting with white people or Korean people,

gave me a point of view. So I always say that if you're a cook, the worst thing you can do is only cook. You gotta do other things. You have to have other interests. You have to read. Because when you have the opportunity, if you're so lucky, to create something on your own,

you're gonna need a point of view. And not just one point of view. Many times you're gonna have to tap into experiences. And in a world where everything is the same, ultimately, I think it's gonna be your personal take on it. Your weird idiosyncratic interpretation of the world that you might be afraid of telling everybody that you need to sort of lean into.

And I have to say that's gotta be something for a comedian because- Identical. No, truly identical. Genuinely, when you were saying that, I was like, this is so funny. The biggest thing, the piece of advice that I've heard from older comics

when we were young was always like, get up every night, work hard, get up at least once a night every night, and then when you're not up during the day, go live a life. Because we forget to live a life. Comics oftentimes are like, I'm just doing what I have to do until I can get another spot, and then I'm doing what I have to do until I get another spot and you forget to live and there was chunks of my life that I kind of forgot to like live have hobbies have interests seek out the shit I used to do when before I was fully committed to doing this one thing and when you have little moments in life where you go especially when someone dies when you lose a loved one or you go through a little bit of tragedy or pain, it like snaps you back into reality where you're like, oh right, I'm not just a fucking comedian,

I have to be a human being and love these things that I've always loved and not put them aside because I want this thing so bad. Because what happens is, and I'm not calling out anybody, but you'll naturally understand what I mean, there's guys that focused only on the thing, and then they got everything that they wanted quote unquote and they're fucking sad and miserable and even from the outside you're like holy shit dude this looks like a bummer. You aren't anybody other than this thing. That's terrible. It is terrible. It's so sad. It's gross.

Where are you gonna get your material? Yeah well you have to live. Yeah you have to do the thing to get to be human. I don't know, I think Rock said it years ago, but he was like, the worst thing that can happen to a comedian is too much wealth and not enough experience. I think Chris said that. I don't even know, I don't know if it was him or not, but that's so true. I've heard that from comedians.

Just gaining all this money and then having no life experience that guys get, you become, I don't even know, like a disconnected entity. Or when you're older and you start making a lot of money, you see this with comedians all the time. You definitely see it with chefs. It's probably happening to me right now when you are doing less interacting with the world,

less fucking up, because you're in your little bubble. You're protected. And you have less input coming in. And what are you gonna make jokes of? Being a rich guy? There's only so much you can do, which I've heard other my friends say like, well, that's why they're not funny anymore.

Right, they lose the thing. They lose the thing. You lose the thing. There's a way to do it, to stay, the biggest guys in the game can still stay within themselves as long as they have lived experiences they're still human and they kind of they shy away from the fact of like embracing because comics I don't know how it is

with chefs because chefs became rock stars a little bit you know the Bourdain's of it all kind of like rock-starred a chef a little bit I don't know I'm not saying he's the first but he did something Generationally that was like you became larger than life you became this like God and I think what's scary is When you start to believe all your own bullshit and eat all your own hype You just totally lose track of the fact. That's like you're just some fucking dude.'s good at one thing. And listen, I was really close with Tony. And I got to see a side that a lot of people probably wouldn't know, but he got so famous that ultimately he became sort of semi-agoraphobic.

He lived in a Time Warner Center. That was the big Columbus Circle. Yeah, that's insane. And he was eating at those restaurants inside. He never left when he was in New York. He just stayed at his, yeah. Because where was he gonna go? Everywhere he went, he was like the Beatles, you know? Yeah.

And- Were you with him during that time too? I tried to give him space. I saw him once and I needed his advice and I, it was the Coliseum, it's not there anymore, Irish Bar. And I chose a place that he could sort of be Tony and I remember getting there early telling the bartender, hey, I got a friend coming in

and I don't wanna make this a thing but he's sort of like well known. Do you think we could have a space of a little hideaway? Yeah. And he's like, she was like, who the fuck are you talking about? I was like, she's like, are you talking about Tony Bourdain? Because he was there all the time.

Right. Cause he could just be himself there. And I was like, oh, I saw it over the course of the years where I remember being at a hotel with him and they had to move him into a closet because we were at the Chateau Marmont where fucking celebrities go. There are celebrities there.

People are coming to him. And they had to move him into the goddamn cleaning closet until they could like sort out the riffraff. And I was like, dude, this sucks. Yeah, that sucks. And at some point, and Tony had a great demeanor about it. He was like, you know what?

I was a middling cook. If this is the tax, if this is the price, then so be it. But at the same time, you are in, I always use this example, because I had a friend that became deaf, lost the ability to hear. You are in, I always use this example, because I had a friend that became deaf, lost the ability to hear. And over time, he could still speak,

I could understand him, but over time, I couldn't understand him anymore. Because it became so distorted, you need to hear yourself. Or it becomes distorted, and you become this bubble, much like a successful comedian that doesn't interact with the world. you're if you're stopped if you stop talking to other people life becomes distorted yeah and unfortunately that's sort of what happened he just kind of lost his way did he did this did he get

with how did he get that what was the accident I have to know what I mean how did he go to how did he go deaf? Was it natural he was just losing his hearing? Wow. And he slowly kind of just stopped. Is he alive? Yeah. DC. But you don't speak anymore.

We don't talk anymore, literally. But I've always used that as sort of a metaphor for, you gotta be careful about certain things or what you wish for. Because yeah, yes certain things or what you wish for. Right, because yeah, yes, be careful what you wish for is such a true phrase, it's unfortunate that cliches turn out almost always true. Almost always.

When you're a kid and your parents tell you something, it bothers you to no end. But then you're like, fuck, they're all real. All of them were real. Like everything my father ever said, as corny as it was, was always real. Every aphorism, platitude, or whatever. It's true.

Because they're fucking real. They're real. And they've also been around for thousands. That's the whole thing, is like these words, these phrases aren't new. We just reshape the way they're told. But they've been told for thousands of years. I think for me, I didn't listen to that advice. There was a period of life where I took everything I learned

and then I opened up the restaurant and I shut out the world. And I was feeding off that fuel for like a decade. It allowed me to just go. Cruise, yeah. But I put myself in a bubble and I just put my head down. And, like, I never thought I was a selfish, prick asshole. But clearly I was.

And you're so caught up at the moment, it's hard. And I'm grateful that when you have the time, if you're lucky enough to sort of go through it, you know, Momo's been around 20 years, and now I have a wife and I have two wonderful kids, I have a perspective being like, man, like, how did I fucking care about the, I don't care about anything that I thought

was life and death anymore. Because it doesn't fucking matter. So maybe the younger generation, I think about this quite a bit, maybe they know something we don't know. They're like, the juice isn't worth the squeeze, dumbass. Yeah, that's possibly a part of it. But we had to squeeze it for them to see that.

And I see this because a lot of very talented cooks don't want to become executive chefs. What do they want instead? They'll do something else in food, because now they're options. And again, maybe I'm jealous. It is jealous, yeah. I'm jealous of it.

Why be super successful? And you know this with a lot of comedians. Why be super successful if you're gonna be a miserable fuck? And every, you know, like everyone, everything in life, at least when we grew up, was about a success guide to get to the fucking mountain top. Right. Right?

That was like what you need to do. No one ever writes the book about what the fuck happens a success guide to get to the fucking mountain top. Right. Right? That was like what you need to do. No one ever writes the book about what the fuck happens when you get actually to the mountain top. Right. Right, what's up there? You might be by yourself. You're most likely by yourself, yeah.

And getting down from the mountain is very dangerous too. Yeah, and you have to do it. Yeah. The only way down is, the only way up is down. And I think that like, you know, I turned 47. I'm like shit like alright I have a different outlook and I think one of the things I feel like culturally I don't know for Talking about is give room to people to fuck up. Yeah, yeah mistakes. Yes in here

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and you wanna get out there to the real world to have people see what you got going on. Go over to squarespace.com for a free trial when you're ready to launch. Go to squarespace.com slash whiskey to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Ginger. I like gingers. Well, we say that in our business is like bombing and comedy is so, it's so imperative. Like if people say that they haven't had bad sets or bad shows well first of all you're a liar you're fucking liar and second of all what what a detriment to your success.

You have to have bad you have to have bad shows you have to have shows that let you down you have to have audiences that don't click with you like you have to have those to ever appreciate the good ones which is just such an old obvious phrase, but the truth is like, if you don't do that, you will never get good. Because any good joke I ever wrote, any good dish you ever created from nothing, I imagine had to have been because of strife from something else. And you find it through the shit that you're like, oh, oh, that's fucking good. Let me ask you something as a comparison.

Yeah. I always think that when a dish that I've created or a restaurant's worked on, and you put it out there for the first time, and it works, those wind up being terrible. Yeah, if it works right away, you mean? Yeah, it's weirdly a bad thing. It's too good, yeah, if it's too good to be true,

that is the case. It has not gone the crucible of pain and suffering to make it bulletproof. Correct, yes. If it's good right away, it's a little sketchy. Because you think, why is that so clean right away? So how are you supposed to explain, the one thing I'm jealous of comedy is,

more than likely, besides your sort of cadre of friends, it's a lonely process. Yes. But cooking, it is is everything's team oriented. How do I tell these cooks, it seems like everyone loves it, the sales have been through the roof. How do you tell them like, you know what, it sucks.

We gotta fuck this up, this is not good. And you're like, they're like, what? We just sold like 50 orders of this. So what? You're like, no. And it's such a hard thing to explain I think the hardest thing to explain and maybe this is gonna be what it's like with my two kids To like seek out the fucking pain. Yeah, it's fucking mental. Yeah But you're going to get something good out of it yeah 100% even%. Even if, and always, my wife always used to say this,

all the time, she used to go, you're going to start, you're going to gain success in the way you least expect. And I always was like annoyed by it sometimes. I'd go, what does that even fucking mean? And she's like, because you're trying, you're putting your work into so many things and you're really passionate about, you know,

either writing or creating or doing, she's like, it'll come in a way that you least expect because you're just out there. So if you think it's happening this way, it's most likely never going to happen that way. And that's gotta be the same thing in that world. It's never gonna go the way you want it to go, and then it'll surprise the fuck out of you. When it does, oh god if I I guess I never knew that that was because you'd always just been working towards it

But your vision was Your vision was big, but you think there's this one shot There's this one way to get through the machine, but it's definitely not that's why when you try to go at it the hard way Inevitably you make room for the win What about? to go at it the hard way, inevitably you make room for the win. What about this idea where maybe you're at or I don't know, like I felt like there was always some kind of agency that I had the ability, even when things were going south, the plane was going down, that I was going to find a way to land the fucking plane, right?

That I had agency, that I could have self-fulfilling prophecy. Now, I realize I was just lucky. Some of it, some of it for sure. There's been a lot of hard work, but so much of it is luck. A lot of it is randomness. Yeah, randomness, right, yeah. And when I think about it that way, I'm like, it takes away a lot of theness yeah randomness right yeah and when I think about it that way I'm like it takes away a lot of the I did a fucking awesome job right you did a good job it's it's amazing for me to think that way because

I have to beat myself up you know I mean you deal with a self-flagellating self-hating Korean all the time and Bobby it's like part of it is our culture like we think we suck all the time. And Bobby, it's like part of it is our culture. Like we think we suck all the time. Yeah, well he does suck, you don't. That's a big difference between the two of you. And by the way Bobby, don't fucking get mad at me. No, no, Bobby will be mad because you're here. Yeah, and I had to postpone doing his other podcast.

I don't even know what it's called, don't worry about it. And I know he's gonna be like, fucking Chang. No, but so what? But it matters to me because there's very few Koreans. I know, but he's fine. Don't worry about Bobby. He'll be perfectly fucking fine. I think, by the way, you are one of the best friends,

as an example, I know your podcast is called Bad Friends. Yes, yes, yes. But you are one of the best friends to Bobby that I've ever seen anybody be a friend to. He means a lot to me, I think also because, without getting into the deepest levels, because I've talked about it very much publicly, but I love him a lot as a human being

because we connect on a way I couldn't explain. In the way that that show works, the reason that it got successful is because him and I are so similar and so different at the exact same time. It's kind of, it's like accidental harmony. It's like we didn't really realize we sang in the same pitch until we heard each other. We were like, oh my God, it's so funny because our comedy is so different.

Our lifestyles are so different. And I think more importantly, I appreciate you saying that, but the reason that I'm so close to him and he's like, he is a brother to me. Because I see who he really is, I know his real heart and his struggles. I grew up with, I was a child of addiction, so I know it so well. And I have a different space in my heart for people that struggle with addiction

because it was a part of my life. And it just makes you care a little bit more for some reason, you know what I mean. I just think it does something to you because you feel closer to it and also because Something about that fucking asshole. I don't even know sometimes you just connect with people on the way We didn't even understand why either it just kind of like was organic. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah, I love them to death I mean, I wish he was Japanese and not Korean,

but that's something that we can't. When you, by the way, when you were living in Japan, cause I visited Japan once and I want to go back, there is this underbelly that I don't think people understand, people kind of like somewhat hear about the world maybe, but they don't really know about it. But I had a friend that taught English overseas as well. And you know, you kind of hear these stories,

these like really dark, like the normal ones that people hear are like Japanese businessmen have to drink with their boss and they black out and you see them on the fucking subway or on the street, which is also pretty tragic. If you've ever seen photos of this, it's like, it's human torture, it's insane. But the darkest parts, these sections of Tokyo that are run by...

The Yakuza. The Yakuza. I mean, that's gotta be the... Which are run mostly by Korean people. Yeah, that's even fucking more crazy. Because Yakuza are mostly run, I won't say mostly, a lot of top positions are run by Korean people that have Japanese names. Did you have any run-ins with any of this? At the time I lived there, you knew who they were because they would park their European sports cars

at an angle on the median of a sidewalk. And because no one would say shit. Yeah, and they have their tattoos and their flashy suit and you're like, well, that's Yakuza. Right, it's gotta be. You know that. And I also lived in the bumblefucks of Southern Japan and you see punk Yakuza's on their dirt bikes causing ruckus. And that's not really the problem for Japan.

Like, Yakuza does an important thing for Japan. They do all the dirty work. They take the trash, they do gambling, but everything in Japan is a loophole. I can't, Pachinko, My family's life is very similar to that book pachinko by Minjin Lee, who's I love her. Pachinko, you play the pinballs, basically pinballs, you collect these pinballs. It's like Chuck E. Cheese with tickets. And imagine Chuck E. Cheese is you get your big stuffed teddy bear. But that stuffed teddy bear when you

make two rights, a left and another right, and you go to this little cubicle in the street, and you give them this stuffed teddy bear, you get $1,000. Wow. That's gambling, because it's illegal to gamble. But not illegal to give a teddy bear. That's genius.

Yeah. And all the salaryman stuff and the drunkenness, it's also sort of fun for a tourist because you can get like a mini keg in a vending machine. Right, that's insane. It's insane. It's amazing. Yeah.

But for me, what I saw was, and I have this crazy history, my family and Japan, because Japan ultimately sort of colonized and took over Korea. Like my grandfather, my mom's side was basically Japanese. Many family members of my side were Japanese. I feel more comfortable in Japan than I do in Korea. Really?

Yeah. Wow. I just do. Yeah. Culturally you feel? Culturally too. Yeah. Cause I'm just never, my whole life,

I've never fit in at any place. But what was like crazy for me when I lived there, because I lived with, I lived in a, I don't even know how to describe it, like a 12 floor building, eight of those floors house homeless people. The restaurant on the first floor, 12 floor building, eight of those floors house homeless people.

The restaurant on the first floor, which is how I got there, was run by homeless chefs that were super talented but had drinking problems. I could talk about this all day long, but ultimately what I saw was there's, at the time, we're talking like 2000, there's no programs in Japan that I know of that were to rehabilitate homeless people or to give them aid, right? For the most part, and people could say that I'm wrong, but I was there, they're looked down upon

not just because they're homeless, because they did not have the courage to end their lives. Jesus. It's like, just do it already. Yeah. Yeah, that's how they feel. So that's crazy, but just look end their lives. Jesus. It's like, just do it already. Yeah. Yeah, that's how they feel. So that's crazy, but just look at their history. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sepik is a real thing. And these are remnants of it. And a lot of these people that I was with, or college professors at Tokyo University, really well-to-do, but life goes sideways sometimes. And I saw the deepest, darkest, saddest shit. And like, just sweep it on the rug, it doesn't exist. There's so much crazy stuff, like for the most part,

if you're in Japan, the train system is amazing. It is, yeah. Like if you're late for work, you have to give a receipt from the train station that the train station was actually late, because you can't use that excuse. The train was late. Right. But what I learned is, this gets pretty dark quickly,

you can't, I would say not all the time, but most of the time trains were late because somebody killed themselves in the train, in front of a train. It was that frequent. Yeah. Jesus. It's wild. Yeah that's that's absurd. And I was like one time I was in a place and all of a sudden I was like why do they change the colors to this beautiful pastel? It's like very bright and they're like oh it's hopefully to change somebody's like

worldview about... Oh wow. And that's just how dark Japan is. Yeah. You know, and I think again, that's an experience that I lived with that like, you know, you couldn't tell me like, hey, when I went to Japan, I didn't know I was gonna live with homeless people. Right, right, right.

It wasn't a goal. It wasn't a goal. I wouldn't live there. There's no way I would have signed up to do that. Right. No way. But I'm glad that I did. It sucked, but I'm glad that I went through it

because it gave me a sense of humanity that I would not have experienced before. And I learned a shit ton. The chefs there were fucking amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Did you have a, I'm interested in the DC of it all. I feel like this is the darkest show you've had in a while. No, it's great.

You kidding me? No, it's amazing. Growing up in DC, when you said that, it kind of stuck out when you're like, you didn't fit in with Asians or whites or anybody in DC. Did you find a circle or were you just kind of like a loner when you were young? Were you someone who was just kind of like,

leave me alone, I do my own thing? No. I always wanted to fit in, but I never fit in. But what do you think it was? I think it was because I was playing golf all the time. Really? I mean, I know you're into golf. I'm a big golfer. You hate it.

I can't play it anymore. I try to pick it up again during the pandemic. I got back surgery recently, so I think it's out for a while. But I don't love it anymore. Because of golf. I actually never loved golf, I don't think. I love beating the shit out of people. Right?

It's an amazing feeling. It's an amazing feeling when you're like 10 years old and you're beating like a 35-year-old man. Yeah, that's awesome. It's incredible. It's incredible. You watch someone's soul crumble. It's great. Yeah. But your father loved it.

You didn't love it. I was forced to. I always say my dad was the first Korean person to yell at a child on a golf course. He was number one. For sure. Now you see a bunch of Korean parents trying to yell at their kids.

They want to yell, but they can't anymore. Right. Did your dad have aspirations of you? Oh, I was supposed to be a professional golfer, full style, yeah. And how far did it go? Won a few tournaments, traveled a lot for golf, and I burned out, age 13.

You were like a kid. It was that day I got drunk, I think that changed everything. No. I just, there was a lot of pressure. And I think another thing was is other kids started to get better. You know? You were slipping away.

I was slipping away. I think that was part of it. I think naturally I'm very fucking good at golf, but the head game started to catch up with me. That's all it is. Yeah, that's the biggest flip of all. When I was not conscious of what I was doing, I was beating the crap out of everybody.

Right. But then when I started to understand, it just became too much, and I became a head case. Well, dude, that's what they say, right? They say there's only two kinds of really good golfers. They're either extremely stupid or they're remarkably intelligent because you got if you're If you get in your way If you get in your own way mentally and you start actually thinking about the game and what you're doing You're fucked, but that's why I love it so much because it's just like it's such

It's just a metaphor for life that the harder you want something and the more you aggressively try, the less it works out. I just think it gives you this balance. You got to be working hard and try and be prepared, but if you're trying too hard, it fucks up the rhythm of just natural life taking place and natural game. That's what got me from a, you know, when I started to really play golf, I would say around 30 years old,

you know, I played when I was young a little bit, but we didn't have any money. We were public course people once, we never was a country club kid or any of that. So I didn't know any of that. I didn't step foot on a private course till I was in my 30s. I didn't step foot on a private course till I was in my 30s. I didn't understand the world.

And so I really got into it in my 30s. And I went from probably a 12 to as low as I've been, was like a three. And it was all because I just learned the balance. You played a lot of golf. A lot of golf, a lot of golf. Well, I just learned the balance. I learned that the harder I worked, or like, wanted so much,

the poorer I played. You know what I mean? I think, but that's a testament to life. I think what you were talking about just 20 minutes ago was like, when you realize what really matters, it washes away a lot of the bullshit. Golf does that too. When you're frustrated at something that went wrong,

it's inevitably going to fuck up the rest of your game. You're going to shit the bed. There's just, that's just what it is. I think it works for a short while, at least for me. I would get so fucking angry on the course. Yeah. But I was able to like, make it work. You can.

And then it doesn't work. Well, it doesn't last forever, no. You were a head case a little bit. Was your dad a head case? No, but he was mean as fuck. Was he abusive? Yeah, fuck yeah. What Korean abusive? Yeah, fuck yeah. What Korean parents?

Yeah, what is this? Every Korean parent, it's like- I don't want any white people to be like, oh, I don't understand. Like, no, you will never fucking understand. No, no, no, no, no. Some of us good whites had got hit. The good whites got hit.

No, our parents were, it's like, our parents, our generation, I guess too, was definitely getting cracked. We got cracked for sure, and that's a part of it. But when I hear Bobby tell stories about his dad, it was insane. When Bobby talks about the shit, or when his mom's on the, I'm like, oh, there's so much of relatability.

Right, because you feel like that was just a common thread, because their parents were like that. That's just what they knew. But you guys were the first generation to finally break the shit. You're not gonna do that to your kids. No. No. Which is the problem.

Sometimes. Yeah, you should be smacking these kids. They're getting out of line. It'd be so much easier, I think. No. Because they have such a, well, do you ever get afraid because you're as successful as you are that your kids are never gonna have

a quote unquote normal upbringing. Like they live, not in the shadow. We left New York to get them out of, not the New York state of mind, but it would be harder to sort of, no one cares about me too much in LA. They care about scripted actors and comedians, whatever. They don't care about me at all. But I know what you're saying. But it's just LA's not a, I give a shit about a chef world. In New York, they do. Right. You're more of a figure there.

Yeah. I would, you know, not... Here you're more of a businessman, almost. Yeah, well, they don't, I can, it's not a problem. My kids, I don't think, you know, we only have one restaurant right now here, like they don't have to be in that world of, and I tried not to, you know, one time somebody was like, can I take a photo with you? And that's when I get pissed with one of my kids.

But I'm trying to be better, to not show anger in front of my kids, as like, why is dad fucking mad? And I remember my son being like, why did he wanna take a photo of you? It's like, what the fuck? What the fuck? Your son is like, I hate pictures with you.

I never wanna take pictures with dad. No, I think it's, even like cooks, right? Like today, chefs today, Korean, second generation, it's not really a choice, right? It's a long process to realizing you have to be better. Right? You know it, but it's like anything else, knowing and doing are very fucking hard things.

Oh, they're very different. And now I think again, like, you know, the cliché of having kids changing your life, it's true. It's like, shit, like, I can't, you know? And I'm not the person I was, thank goodness, but I'm definitely not my dad. There's not a chance in hell I would ever treat my kids the way my dad treated me. That would just, I would be in jail. Right, yeah, 100%. Child services would be there. Is he alive? No, he passed. And your mom too? My mom passed, you know, they both passed during the pandemic. But when my dad passed at the funeral, and that was weird, I don't know if

you were a funeral during the pandemic, but everyone was like six feet away. It was fucking weird. That's awful. My mom gave like a brief eulogy and in a broken English said, your father was a terrible husband and a horrible father, but I loved him anyway. That's Korean parents.

Yeah. Yeah. uh... that's uh... that sums up that's that's korean parents yet uh... yeah yeah but but it's but i'm sure their remnants of him but what's your best memory of your dad saying a lot of therapy to understand that all fallible we make mistakes

and he came to this country war torntorn Korea and he worked in the restaurants not as a cook and he fucking hustled his way. He never had somebody telling him this is everything's gonna be okay. People were dying left and right in his life, fucking starving all the time. And somehow he made it work and hustled his way. And I think one of my brothers,

I have two older brothers and they were like, dad is a son of a bitch right now, but when you get older, he gets cool. And I was like, whatever, I don't even understand what you're talking about. I turned 21 or maybe I turned 18. Maybe he knew I had a fake ID and I was 18, but he sent a car to pick me up in college

and we went to Atlantic City. Oh shit, that's cool. And it was the first father-son moment I ever had where he was just trying to be cool. And he taught me how to gamble. He taught me how to play craps, taught me how to play blackjack. Because this was the first time,

it was like playing baseball catch with his son. I never did that shit with my dad. It was the first time, so was like playing baseball, catch with the son. I never did that shit with my dad. It was the first time, so it began for me to understand, like, oh, much later on that he was just trying to relate. He's got four kids born in this country that it was just impossible to understand. So I think I've forgiven him in a lot of ways. In some ways I hate him more.

But I think overall, like, in a lot of ways. In some ways I hate them more, but I think overall, that's just fucking life. So, you know, I think the best memory was probably when I went gambling with my dad. It was in Hong Kong we did it, or Macau, or Vegas, and that was the only time, maybe four times, where I was like, oh, my dad's like my boy right now. That's my dog. Yeah.

Yeah, not my dad. Not my dad. There's a separation. Yeah. I mean, those are big, those are important things to hold onto because I know all that other shit is tough. But it kind of, it just does, inevitably makes you a better dude.

I mean, for as limited as I know you, you know, you do seem like a really solid, like, well-to-do person. Like, you just, you've lived enough shit where I just feel like you know, you know what's right and what's wrong. And that's kind of part of Lee because he was fucking an asshole. I mean, sometimes you, that's what it takes to, like, learn. You know, when you meet people that kind of just don't get social These understandings where you're like, how do you not understand that and I think it comes from a place of like Tough shitty learning tough love type of shit you learn to just kind of deal with it work around it

Just get it done. Just do it. I think it helps sometimes. As unfortunate as it is, I don't know, Bobby has that in spades too. Bobby does have a big heart. He may be childish and do all the bullshit that makes us laugh and roll my eyes, but he does know the best version of what actually is the right thing to do. And he does the right thing more than people will ever know.

It's not my business to ever say, but he does things for people that no one will ever hear about. He's a mama's boy. He's a fucking little mama's boy, yeah. Has Bobby ever talked about, because this is how I feel sometimes, at least, because you know, I have had so many employees too,

like, I was like, fuck. A realization, like, I think I'm turning into my dad. Oh yeah. You're like, fuck. Yeah. This is not acceptable. Yeah. Holy shit, no wonder they fucking hate my guts.

And it takes some time to realize, I always use this example for myself. It's like, in that moment when you're with your friends or you're with a group of people, and you're like, who smells bad? Who's got that terrible stench? And you're like, who is that person? And then you're like, who is that person?

And then you're like, it's that person. And you're like, no, it's that fucking person. And then you realize, no, I'm the fucking smelly person. It's me. I stink. I stink. And that's that moment of humility and embarrassment, like, oh, fuck.

You know, you're like, I am my fucking dad. I gotta change shit. Yeah, well, you seem like you're a level cat. And by the way, when you said you only have one restaurant, you don't have two, you have two here now. We're opening another one in Century City. We want to major, we actually, I think we're opening something in,

we're opening a Fuku in crypto.com. But Mamo Fuku is going to be in crypto. No, Fuku, chicken sandwich. Oh, Fuku, Fuku. But we're opening up something called Super Peach in Century City, but I'm not going to be involved with it day to day. We have an amazing team. So that'll be opening up in the next year, hopefully.

And Majordomo? Majordomo in downtown. Yeah, it's great. I had the, I went with my old manager back in the day. I had the tomahawk, you know, with the bone. Right. It's great, man. It's great.

I asked to take it home, and my wife was like, why would you take it? I'm like, for the dog. She's like, don't bring that fucking thing to the house. What a stupid fucking thing to lug around. I had a couple of drinks. I was like, wait a minute, this is great. The dog's going to love this. She's like, shut the fuck up, dude. Don't bring that back to the house. I was like, okay, fine. Well, you're, look, I had a blast on

your show. You guys were so much fun. It was awesome, dude. It was such, it's such a fun experience to have, to change the world. As a guy who like has a little crush on your world, to change the world. As a guy who like has a little crush on your world, you know, I've always kind of from afar just really like enjoyed the world of chefs with personalities. You know, I mean the world does. Everybody likes it. But it's just kind of cool when you can kind of feel the food, you feel the person through the food a little bit, as corny as that sounds. But like when you eat certain people's meals, you're like, I just get it.

You know, I felt that way when I had a linea for the first time in Chicago. This is a great story, by the way. My mom, you know, I had a little bit of money and I was like, I'm gonna treat my mom to her, I'm not gonna say what number of birthdays, she'd be like, don't fucking say one. But it was a special birthday for my mom. And so I reserved at Alinea in Chicago

for me, my wife, my mom, and my dad. And this is how fucking stubborn my dad is. Because we left the city years ago and they live out in the suburbs. And I said, I got a phenomenal a booze, the booze package, it's even more expensive, the wine, you know. My dad's like, oh, where are we going for your mom's birthday? I said, I got this restaurant and it's downtown. He's like, oh, I'm not going downtown. I was like, are you out of your fucking mind? I was like, do you know how much I spent on this thing, dude?

I'm losing my mind right now. He was like, no, no, I'm not going downtown. So we fought about it, and then my little sister got to go, the little brat, she got to fucking- Your dad didn't go? No, he didn't go one of the great dining experiences It drove me nuts it pissed me off. I was like you don't understand this guy This guy is Chicago. This is like it. This isn't it. This is us. I was like this is it

He didn't go and I to this day. I was like fuck fucking believe it No, I took my little sister to he didn't he then he was like I don't really feel well I know that's not true. He just doesn't want little sister to, he didn't, then he was like, I don't really feel well. I'm like, no, that's not true. He just doesn't want to go into the city. He's just setting his ways. He's old man style. He's like, I'm not going to the city anymore.

I did that and then I went to an Oriole. I don't know if you've been to that. No, it's a great restaurant as well. You did great, yeah, very good. But I've always had like a big, a crush on that world because I know I can't cook for shit. Like sometimes, I think I told you, I watched that Jacques Pepin, that world, because I know I can't cook for shit. Like sometimes, I think I told you, I watched that Jacques Pepin, that dude,

I'll watch videos online, and I just watch it. Great guy. But I don't use it as instruction. I don't cook. I can't cook. But I just like to watch it. And my wife is like, have you ever tried to do it? And I'm like, no, no, no, I don't want to. But it is fascinating to watch. I don't know why, I just like watching people cook. So it was a privilege to be on your show because I was like, this is gonna be great

and we got to eat food and I gained seven pounds and made me feel good. And I appreciate you being here on the show and I don't give a shit what Bobby thinks. You did this first because you said to me and I have it via text, I like you more than Bobby. And we have it, we can show everybody. It's true, fuck you Bobby.

Fuck you. We end the show the same way. Look into that camera right there and you say one word or one phrase to take us home. One word or a phrase whenever you're ready. And you can take a minute, I know, sometimes it hits people. No, I'm just gonna say the first thing that hitting me because my youngest son Gus,

because I'm saying this all day, all week Mm-hmm. He's dad. I got a poop In here we pour The ginger gene is a curse. Gingers are beautiful. You owe me five dollars for the whiskey, and seventy-five dollars for the horse. Gingers are hell no. This whiskey is excellent. Ginger. I like gingers.