Whiskey Ginger with Andrew Santino - Judd Apatow

Episode Date: May 21, 2021

Santino sits down with Judd Apatow to ask him why he's never put him in anything, throwing out a knuckleball at the mets game, the best Letterman fringe guests and how Judd incorporated elements of his high school experience into freaks and geeks. COME SEE ME ON TOUR!!! https://www.andrewsantino.com ORDER SOME MERCH!!! https://www.andrewsantinostore.com Join our Patreon : https://www.patreon.com/whiskeygingerpodcast SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! SQUARESPACE - Help design your website today with amazing templates and the help of professionals https://squarespace.com/whiskey Use promo code WHISKEY for 10% off! SUNDAY SCARIES - Calm down and grab some CBD https://sundayscaries.com/ Promo WHISKEY for 25% off!!!!!!!!! Follow Santino on Insta and Twitter: https://www.instagram.com/cheetosantino/ https://twitter.com/CheetoSantino Whiskey Ginger Insta and Twitter: https://www.instagram.com/whiskeygingerpodcast/ & https://twitter.com/whiskeyginger_ Whiskey Ginger Clips: http://www.youtube.com/c/WhiskeyGingerPodcastClips EDITING AND PRODUCTION DESIGN BY Andres "Fancy B" Rosende Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What up, Whiskey Ginger fans? Welcome back to the show. Like I always say, please subscribe, hit that notification bell so you know when we post, but we post every single Friday. We don't miss. Very excited about what's going on. I'm putting up a bunch of new tour dates. You got to go to androsantino.com to find all that stuff. I'm going to be in Atlantic City at the end of the month. I'm going to Madison. I'm going to Boston. I'm going to Nashville. I'm going to Houston. I'm going to Houston in July. I was just there and I'm going back. And then we're adding a ton of new dates, but go to andrewsantino.com for all that information.

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In here, we pour whiskey, whiskey, whiskey, whiskey, whiskey. You're that creature in the ginger beard. Sturdy and ginger. Like vampires, the ginger gene is a curse. Gingers are beautiful. You owe me $5 for the whiskey and $75 for the whore. Gingers are hell no. This whiskey is excellent.

Ginger. I like gingers. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Whiskey Ginger. My guest today is one of my favorite people on earth. I say that for all my guests, but actually I mean it once again today. It's Mr. Judd Apatow. Judd, thanks for coming. I'm here.

I'm here. You know what I found interesting? Let's go down the list of things you've complained about so far. I've complained about a lot, but I'm going to complain about the main thing first. Okay. Here's the best part of the pandemic,

not leaving the house. Right. You know, I had to promote King of Staten Island. I did the entire thing from my couch. I did Colbert. I did The Tonight Show. Never heard of them. I did everything.

Yeah. And it worked perfectly. People enjoyed it. And then I come home from a long shoot in England, and you say you have to come to the Valley, which is everything that I so enjoyed not doing. Correct. Like there's nothing good about the pandemic except not coming to the Valley.

And then you're like, yeah, it kind of works better from the Valley. And I really only said yes, assuming it was one of those Zoom things like Colbert. You could have bailed. You could have said, well, and I didn didn't bail though, which says something about me. It says a lot about you. And here's the thing. I'm not going to make fun of those guys, but I'm about to. Okay.

The reason those shows are failing so miserably is because the Zoom stuff doesn't work. People want to see people together. They want to know that you have a human interaction. Yeah. The computer thing is so devoid of any sort of like prior relationship. It takes away anything fun.

And I don't know. It's why Conan is quitting, I think. It's why those shows are grasping at straws a little bit to like stay on the air and stay relevant. And I'm not shitting on them as much as I think there's a big disconnect in late night shows. I think people see it at home now. Because they're privy to this world, they're like, oh, that's, they don't like each other. They don't know each other. There's no relationship there. I'm going to go the other way. I'm going to say they're better now.

Oh, you, oh, really? Yeah. Well, the ratings would disagree with you. Remarkably. I love stripping it down, removing all energy from those shows. Oh, good. I like it. I like seeing people without their makeup, playing an acoustic guitar without the band.

That's what's happening right now. That's what I'm saying. I think it works on those talk shows to just see everyone vulnerable, weak, maybe even a little sad. I've enjoyed some of those interviews. I haven't thought, I wish there was a whoop and holler crowd, although I do know what you mean.

I mean, I think that... What are your most memorable, who are the most memorable guests from late night shows in your opinion? Like I'm... That I've watched as a fan. fan yeah because i'm a late night carson was like i was addicted as a kid i was obsessed my mom used to like tear me away from carson yes how old are you by the way 37 okay so i'm 53 no we know i i'm not wearing it well but i so so i got more carson years than you way more yes and maybe a little more of the the 70s yeah uh corny or george gobel-esque right era of right which i enjoyed watching though i did watch re-watch all that stuff fantastic uh so what what do i think of when i think of like the

great talk show moments that pop into mind? I will tell you. I, in the world of Letterman, obsessed with the show. Watched the morning show as a kid. It was on, I believe it started maybe in the summer. I just saw a lot of it because I just didn't go out and play with people very often. And was maybe, I don't know, 12 or something when that hit so was i was very aware when that uh was ending so he had been canceled and there was an awareness that he was going away and the show talked about it and i had never seen that before that was a big deal back

then a guy with a talk show making fun of the fact that he just got shit canned. Yeah. And the show embraced the concept of we're screwed. Right. And did the big finale episode. And that was really, really funny. He used to have guests on who were fake guests. And there was one guy who used to come on and he would pretend to be an author. And so you would think it was like Tom Clancy or something.

And then in the middle of the interview, he would just start crying and go, I'm sorry, I lied not tom clancy i'm a very bad man and he would run off and they would do it like once a week yeah they'd have this guy come on and i used to love brother theater all the fringe guests of letterman right you know when sandra bernhardt used to be on in the in the early days harry shearer used to on. And then he switched to CBS. And when he switched, there was a whole category of people that he did not put on the CBS show. Like it was more commercial. So you weren't going to have that. Because CBS had their hands on it.

Exactly. And so I love that early Letterman when you can't get the great guests, so you get the great guests. Right. Well, like I said, I think I said it on, I don't know, I said it on another podcast, but Warren Zevon, I'm a huge fan of. And when him and Dave had that interaction,

it was stuff like that that I loved, that I missed, right? And I'm not saying the new shows are garbage. I just think you miss this very friendship element that isn't all about rating roping.

It's more about like, well, I know these guys actually appreciate each other's work and there's something real there and you're not going to know everyone to have on your show but with like someone like warren or even harmony corinne right like harmony got all that flack for going on there but he had him on four more times so it was like this weird fun play that dave was doing where he was annoyed and pissed off but it was beautiful because he soaked it up but i mean there's been so many guests that have gone on in that world of the fringe, whatever. The Charles Grodin era of The Tonight Show.

Of just making it, it was like uncomfortably fun to watch. And I think Carson used to embrace weirdo shit all the time, but we went away from it. Now it's like Jimmy playing ping pong with Chris Pratt, which is fine, but it just, it misses the thing. So anyway, let's unwind. You complained about the studio and saying it was going to get hot. Yeah. The chairs are too big.

The chairs are too big. It is getting hot. We're in the Valley. It's very hot outside. You had the AC cranking when I walked in and then I thought halfway through this podcast, we are boiling. Yeah, but let me tell you something. We don't make enough money to have AC running the whole time. Well, what you need is like a kind of of a ten thousand dollar unit that's so quiet like a quiet oh a whisper quiet ac unit yeah yeah and the chairs were too big because someone broke the trixie mattel who's do you know trixie at all no she's like drag royalty she's uh she was one of the you know kind of the most one of the more famous people from rupaul Drag Race. But Trixie came on here and broke one of the chairs.

It was already broken, but I made her feel bad. Like she broke it and I had to get new chairs. This is all I could afford, Josh. These are deep. They're too deep so your legs can't fight. Well, if you're a tall, if you're a full-sized man as I, look at my feet lay flat. But most people aren't. Well, that's their problem, not mine.

You can't have chairs that only work for a six-foot-one person. And up. Six-foot-one and up. So you have like Brad Garadon and Bo Burnham in the chairs work. Yeah, love. I should get that. Can we make sure we get those guys on the list of guys to get on the show? Actually, I've had Brad.

Judy Gold loves this chair, but most of us don't. Jesselnik. There's so many people that these chairs work for. I'm two inches shorter than this chair. No, you're... Judd, we've known each other for a while. We knew each other outside of standup. We knew each other inside of standup in the latter return of you kind of coming really

back to the store. I've done table reads for you. I've never been able to work for you. And that's because you don't like me enough. I like to think of it as things need to sync up. Right. That's the Hollywood way of saying you're not good enough. You can just say I'm not good enough. You know, I'm not going to say that because here's the thing. Say it. The hardest part about being a producer.

Yeah. In the course of your life, you only have so many parts to cast. Yeah. Right? And you like a lot of people such as yourself, but it has to line up. It has to sink. For instance- What do I need to do?

Do I need to get tattoos? You need to just somehow magically be right for something. For instance, I just made a movie. King of Staten Island. No, I made a movie called The Bubble in England. About people during the pandemic- Trying to shoot a movie. Yes.

Could have been in that. And Fred Armisen been in that. And Fred Armisen was in it. Love him. Right? So it sunk up. It sunk up. It sunk up. But I had Corona. Don't you think using a guy that had Rona for real life experience would have been nice? Throw in the guy that had Corona in there. It would have been better. It would have been a little bit of reality. You would have almost been a consultant. And I could be hired for that. I'll take anything at this point. But you enjoy the acting. No, I love it. And I've always respected and appreciated you and your work. And that's why I always enjoyed whenever you hit me up and was like, will you come to this read? Because I always

wanted to see what you had going on. And I'm not placating. I really do mean that. We were talking before, Fancy and I were talking about you know your resume and uh i mean look some of the greatest stuff that i've liked as a comic you've made some really wonderful stuff and including the newer stuff too of kingston island was great you know it was great um is this bubble gonna be good i can't vouch for that yet you don't know here's the thing i don't know i'm in editing right now and it might be good and you wrestle with it and you think is it in there yeah is it in there but sometimes you make stuff and you don't know like no or or have you ever made a show like freaks with freaks yes you knew the whole time you know it's not so much that you know sometimes you know that you would like it

so there's a couple of levels one is do you think you can get into the place where you think it's great? Then it's like, is that result what anyone else would agree with as being great? And then it's, will it transcend and will a lot of people jump on board? So sometimes I'll make something and I'll think, well, this, it might just be a cult hit. I like this, but I don't think this is mainstream taste. And other times you happen to connect with a lot of people. The main thing is you just don't want to make something that when you see it on cable, you're really upset that people are going to watch it.

Like, you know you failed and it's, there it is. There it is. So- Which we've all done. So yeah, so if you're happy when you see it, like, oh, someone's watching that right now, that becomes the ultimate judge of it. Yeah, I guess that's true.

I'm super interested to find out because I have this, you know, Carlin was always kind of a guy for me that was bigger than a comic. It was when I was younger, I think my dad showed him to me and I was like, it never made me laugh out loud as a kid but it always made me ponder and like it was just opening my mind's eye like wow i've never even thought about shit like that like he was just great at entering these little comedic parts of my mind but it never made me ha ha not like eddie used to make me lose my shit when i would sneak away and watch eddie my mom hated it because all the shit he would say that i'd have to like hold

in my laughs to be quiet if I was watching that. But with Carlin, it was much safer. My parents, I think, were more okay with him. But you're doing a docu-series about- Well, a documentary, a two-part documentary with my co-director, Michael Bonfiglio. So that's happening right now. What a name. Yeah, what a name.

Bonfiglio. Bonfiglio. What has he done prior? What a name. Now. Yeah. What a name. Bonifiglio.

Bonifiglio. What has he done prior? Well, he is famous for having made the great Bo Jackson 30 for 30. That was him? Yeah. To show Bo shooting arrows with his feet? I mean, he said a lot of things. He produced the Gary Chandling documentary for me.

We co-directed the Gooden documentary, the Daryll strawberry doc good documentary for 30 for 30 we did that together and we did a documentary about the band the avet brothers together called may it last very cool he's a very talented man and he just also directed the patrice o'neill documentary oh my god but so yeah so we're in the middle of that now which is fascinating because obviously when i was a little kid that he was the guy class clown right you know i grew up at the prime of the 70s version of of george carlin and then it it got lighter for a while it became like place for my stuff all that stuff yeah you know yeah uh what's a suitcase uh it's a it's a i mean all that stuff there was like a moment with george carlin where we were all quite you, unsure where it was going to go. And then suddenly it went really dark the last three specials, which I always loved.

I think modern life has proven him correct on almost everything that he said. So the documentary hopefully will be a journey through history, also through his eyes as someone from the 50s, 60s, 70s, all the decades and how he morphed as the world was changing. We have a family friend who used to be his wife's assistant and would say that he had this like lab of his jokes and was extremely particular about the way he would like articulate everything.

And so he wrote down every word, like, you know, as most standups, a lot of us don't write down every word, but he wrote down every word. And apparently he used to repeat it over and over and over and over, like to a point where it would drive her crazy. It was like, stop. You've said the joke a thousand, but he would do it because he just liked the inflection differences and the intonation. And I think that kind of chaos is like what you see in Kobe or Tiger or these great athletes. It's like the repetitive chaos

is what makes them kind of the greatest, which just, you know, it makes me, it reminds me that I'm never going to be that great, which I'm comfortable with. Because I don't have that thing where you're like, oh, I can't lose my mind over the repetitive nature of the particulars. I can't do that't do well in terms of movies i don't do that with movies i i don't write a script make it perfect and shoot it i write a script that i feel like

has the outline of what i want to do and then i want to improvise and play and rewrite on the set and i want to find something in the moment right I used to be much more anal about getting it perfect on the page. When you're young as a director and producer. And I didn't like working that way because you get in editing and you realize, oh, that joke I was sure was good, wasn't good. And then now I'm in editing, I have nothing to fix it with. So I rather on the set get five jokes in every spot as opposed to one. And work with super talented improv. I mean, the people that you've elected to work with, you know, it says,

I ran into Chris Wotowski the other day. Well, I ran into him the first time. We kind of didn't really know each other. We ran into each other at CBS Radford. And he was like, hey man, you're great. I said, dude, you're great. Because I do this thing where, and people that don't know, Chris was on Love.

He's hilarious. I don't remember the character's name because I'm not good with that. I never don't know, Chris was on Love. He's hilarious. I don't remember the character's name because I'm not good with that. I never remember those things. I move on so fast. Yeah, you do. Yeah. You're already out of here right now. I remember Chris.

Yeah. Chris, you know. But Chris played Paul's neighbor on the show or like lived in the same complex as him. And I do this thing, and I've done this since I was a child. My mom was like, oh, you always did that. If I was watching something on VHS and I found it hysterical, I'd rewind it and do it again, and then rewind it and play it again and rewind. And with technology, the best part is I can just Netflix 15, 15, 15.

And I will do this to a point where my wife loathes me. But there was a scene, and I want to ask you, you might not even remember this, but I laughed so fucking hard, had to watch it for like an hour straight that um paul is trying to throw something a shoe oh chris had thrown a shoe and it hit the window to get his attention yeah and he goes why did you throw a shoe you could have just texted me and he's like i don't know and he continued on this like beautiful banter about whatever they were going to do that night. And then Chris is like, can you throw back my shoe? And when Paul throws it, he does it in a very like unathletic on purpose lob and it misses.

And Chris very like pleasantly goes, Oh man, like it's, it's a big deal, but it's not a big deal. But the moment that killed me was, and I got to know this wasn't in there. He looks down on the,

off the balcony where the shoes and he goes oh there's other shoes down there and i was like that is what like a great brilliant ad of this insane little little snippet so i watch it over and i told him how much i love that because i was like that's the kind of stuff that makes to me makes tv just amazing because there's no scenario that that's not an improv. And that is what I like about working like that. Because I feel like people have their own rhythm. And so to force them into your rhythm feels wrong.

Yeah. So to say to Chris, we're going to create a situation where you can do your thing and we want to hit these beats and we like these jokes and we'll try them but you also can play and drift off. That's when you get great stuff.

Mike Mitchell was on that show too and he would do the same thing with Claudia O'Doherty. He was so funny from the Doughboys. He was very, very funny. And that's my favorite thing because I don't... I'm proud when i write a

joke but i'm just as proud at creating a scenario where someone else can think of a joke that makes it even stronger yeah i mean as long as it happens you know i always say to everybody i'm the anti aaron sorkin i want to write none of it in here we pour Hey, if you're looking to create your idea into something reality-based, go ahead and use Squarespace to create a beautiful new website for yourself, whether you're selling something, publishing, you just want to chat, you want to make your own podcast page, website to tour if you're a musician, an artist, graphic designer, really whatever you're making, Squarespace is the best. We use Squarespace to make our site. I think it's incredible. And it was easy even for a stupid

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at you know i tried multicam i tried hybrids i bombed all of them i mean they're bringing back how i met your father this kind of how i met your mother i did the original pilot of that which was i mean light it on fire and hide it bury it and kill it it's on the internet somewhere and what do you think went wrong all of it yeah all of it but is it a and kill it. It's on the internet somewhere. And what do you think went wrong? All of it. Yeah. All of it. But is it a casting thing? Is it a writing question?

Is it tone? I can actually tell you literally, and I've talked about it on this podcast before, but I went, I had never seen How I Met Your Mother. You didn't do your homework? Okay, we're done. I never do my homework. No prep whatsoever. But I'd never seen it. And so I went home and I watched it after I got the job.

And I was like, oh, I get what the show is. But the show that we were making was nothing like this. Because Greta Gerwig had gotten a big contract to write it, produce it, act in it. And I liked Greta, but I thought this is going to be hard. She's not, this is such a different world for her, right? It's just so opposite of what she- Had she watched the show? I hope.

Who knows? Honestly, doubt it maybe not but that element of her kind of being out of what she's the best at was i think confusing and tough for them to get the rhythm right and there were so many good people a part of it that i was like it's almost too rich with it's like too filled with riches that you're like this feels weird like even the first day pam Pam Fryman was directing it. And, and,

you know, and she was like, this, this feels like this is going to be great. And people were chatting like, where are you going to live in New York? Because the guys had moved to New York. You always have to have that talk.

Yeah. You always got to count your money. New York. Yeah. What are you going to do? Because, you know, the great thing about sitcoms is you do these pilots and everyone knows what

they'll make for this series. Right. Right. So, so you find out even before you get the part you have to sign a contract when you're auditioning that's like you're gonna make thirty thousand dollars an episode but you haven't gotten the job yet right so you can start fantasizing about your world what am i gonna do with all this money yeah and every pilot people think that you nailed it right no pilot that gets shot where everyone's like that really didn't work everyone is sure this is happening that was this was the one we all knew it was very a vibe amongst all

of us i mean we all kind of talked in our own little separate groups i mean they had hired and fired three different girls to play her best friend yeah not a good it was just i was like what's happening and it tumbled through this thing but anyway they're bringing that show back and you have to star in it and i have to be i am greta's part yes i have to be the female lead but beg ryan did the voiceover for it i mean the amount of people they put behind it um and i'm being i'm so blank-minded but emily um shit she did uh will forte's show um the last man on earth emily uh she's a great producer and writer oh man i feel like you know her so you would know her yeah this is gonna kill me yeah she was a part of Emily, she's a great producer and writer. Oh, man, I feel like you would know her.

This is going to kill me. She was a part of it, and she's so brilliant and a great joke writer. The problem, going back to what it was for me, was they wanted to hit these jokes so on the head because CBS was very stringent upon all of these little elements being perfect, and I felt the whole time how bad I was. As a comic, I prided myself in telling jokes at good timing. I was so bad at this timing it was it was hard every day i would go home and be like man this is not that reminds me

of a story i've told before but it still applies which is when i uh first moved to town and i was going to usc and i was doing stand-up i would do stand-up at sammy shore paul uh you know paulie's dad yeah had a little club that i booked for him when I went to college. Where was it? It was called Sammy's by the Shore. And it was on like Admiralty Way in Marina del Rey. Yeah. And some agent saw me, sent me to an acting coach,

wanted to send me out on pilot season. And I'm 19 or 20 years old and very excited. But I've never acted before, literally never said a word of acting before, like nothing, not a school play, nothing. So I go to this acting coach who's supposed to figure out if I can do this. Yeah. And the guy doesn't teach me to act. He just asked me to read this scene from a TV show called My Sister Sam, and the scene was so terrible that it was impossible to even say out loud because every joke was like,

well, that's why my sister came here today. Like, everything was the worst joke ever, and I couldn't even understand how you would say it, and then the agent called me and said, yeah, I don't want to represent you. And that literally was the end of my acting career. That was the end of it. And I was so broken and shamed by the experience

that I thought, okay, well, I've been told by professionals, this is not my future. One guy is all it took for you. Just to go, I don't want to work with you. This is why they say- And where's that guy? He's still a big acting coach.

He really is. Shit. All right. He was right. Whatever. But also he certainly didn't try to figure out my skill level, what he could teach me. It wasn't a supportive situation. But that is something about the business, which is if you don't have the fortitude after that to go fuck him right i'm gonna go take classes now

right right you know that's why most people leave town you know you know my kids act and i always say to them you know 90 of it is not quitting because everybody quits yeah people come here and we've seen yeah 10 000 of them and they leave just by staying in your you're ahead of your odds yeah which is why it's funny when people left la after during the pandemic like i'm out of here i was like good get out of here there's less assholes they have to clog up this system it is it is it is a game of longevity which is also proven in what in my first love which has always been stand-up is it's longevity it's skill set but like the best comics typically make it later in life because it's a it's a long play game it's hard for i mean guys that you know and you've worked with in the comedy world there

is a very rare few someone like beau that you brought up who made it young because of his talent and now has kind of stepped away a little bit from stand-up and focused on other things he's a he is a he's it doesn't exist what he did to make it that young and what was he 18 or 19 or well 17 is when he started making like 16 17 yeah when he's making the videos upstairs and i think that he's he is a an exception to the rule that like most comics that you know especially guys that are close to me burr someone who made it later you know sebastian like guys that are really hitting their strides it just takes a long time to stay in it which is funny because you walked away for a while and then came back and then i would see you all the time at the store with you know a bible

size notebook filled with notes falling out of it. I mean, it was such a cartoon version of Judd coming to the comedy store. I was like, here comes Judd, like papers flying out. Like, I feel like a bully pushed you and you had to pick them up fast. And you're like, I'm late for the set. And you were like running on stage. Like that was always your, I think part of the, I think part of what you liked as an outsider, I might be wrong. I think you liked the hastiness of like getting up. It was like, you were almost always like, ah, go and get up. And that helped the performance a little bit. Yeah. And also I think one of my issues just emotionally with creativity was this belief that I'm not interesting. And so I have to fight through that to do stand up. Right.

And even to write about personal things. It took me a long time to think, oh, I'm interesting, or at least my life experience is relatable enough that people want to know about it and they relate to it in some way. Even if it's something as simple as marriage or having a baby or things like that. But my instinct in my head is, who gives a shit? No one gives a shit. Just shut up. That's all of us. I think so. I feel like that a lot.

It's a pretty loud voice. So doing standup is almost a way of programming my brain to have some self-esteem and to think that I have something to say. And now it's debatable how much self-esteem I deserve to have, but it's helpful for me to get up there and do it. Although I have to say during the pandemic i didn't write one joke no not pete holmes just had talked to this talk to me about this that he came and we did a set together at uh this the supernova this uh show in hollywood and

pete and i don't really have never really known each other we know of each other and that kind of peripheral comedy thing we're like yeah we know that guy but but he was like man what have you been doing like where have you been sneaking up and getting sex? But I was like, I did write a bunch of stuff during it. And then I tried it out where I could. And he was like, I don't know how you've been doing it. Because that's, I tried to write a bunch of stuff. A lot of it was trash.

And so, but a lot of it had notions of things that I would add later. That's my thing is like, I'll write a bunch of bullshit. But maybe like 5% of it will have a nugget of a thing that'll lead me down a better path in the future. But I felt like

the world had dropped out, right? Yeah. So to me, the idea of writing stand-up and also writing anything felt like, let's say there was a nuclear power plant in LA that had a meltdown. We can only hope.

And most of the city didn't exist. But yet, we all thought in a year, maybe things would get back to normal. Can I write about my observations of normal life and my family while the wreckage, I'm still walking through the Mad Max wreckage. So the movie I wrote was about people trying to shoot a movie during the pandemic because I couldn't get out of the head of, well, I'm in this now. I can't just talk about the bullshit I always talk about because that world actually doesn't exist. Even the world of my kids and trying to get along with my kids and them having you know boyfriends and how i relate to it it just felt like well that's for later i guess i don't i

would know i had to put down a bunch of shit because of the dynamic shift that happened of like but about what the changing guards of of of the white house i mean like the shift of what happened politically and globally no and i usually don't which is weird but like i have to shit on all that because it's it's all that i felt there was nothing else going on but politics being jammed down your throat during the middle of pandemic of left versus right and who started this and who's the who's the real aggressor and who's the victim and because of that i had to shit on it now it goes elsewhere after it but it starts from that place of like you know what why did we think that this was going to be the fix and why did we think that

these people were really looking out for us and how come we can't believe in these things i think that's where it starts and then you digress into the other subcategory i mean fauci was great it's great to start with fouch you know yeah because he's so cute he's just a cute what a cute symbol of scientific hope. You know what I mean? Can I say what my issues were? Like if I was doing standup, I would have talked about. Yeah.

And obviously I'm a progressive person, but. You're alt-right. Weren't you alt-right for years? Well, I had an awakening. And you wanted to start Proud Men, but Proud Boys sued you. Well, I've always been proud. And you wanted to start Proud Men, but Proud Boys sued you. I've always been proud. And you should be allowed to say that. But I always thought all those people around Trump, and this could be completely wrong.

Yeah. But I always thought that they should hold a press conference and go, he's going to kill all of you. Yeah. And I know that everyone secretly is behind the scenes trying to get the vaccine made. And they're like, we have this lunatic person and we have to get this job done before he kills everyone. But I also felt like we needed more people to go. He knows how bad it is. He's not telling you.

As a political choice, as a calculation, he thinks he can get reelected by turning us against each other. And he's hiding the truth of what's happening. That it was important that there were more whistleblowers. There were some that Dr. Bright and all that. But I was upset about that. I thought someone needed to go. We are in so much danger that this guy is such a lunatic right now. This is the worst human in the world to deal with this. Well, I text Chris Christie sometimes and him and I really get into it. You know, he really tells me all his deep, dark secrets. And Rudy and I, Giuliani, we have lunch every other week. I have so many pictures with Rudy from years ago.

Isn't that so funny? Like I was on the Tonight Show and he was... So I have so many pictures of me just with a big smile on my face him with a big smile on his face how could you not that's gonna exist in the rest of your life that you're gonna have photos of people you know what i mean like that will just only continue to come up also you're you're you're born and raised in new york yes so you know the the rudy of old is different than the rudy of now anyway i know rudy fighting the mafia rudy right Was he stopping Frisk? I'm sure that he was. He was like a part of that, right? He also was about shutting down parts of the city

that had both the arts in them, but also the seedier part of the city. So people felt like the city really changed and was somewhat Disney-fied. Right, that's right. But I don't know if you could really fight to keep your porno theaters. So'm not sure you could ultimately what it could have been we do it here in la yeah studs theater man i i gave them 10 grand so they could keep those doors open which

is why we don't have ac in this place yeah because that's why it's so much money to studs theater well dude somebody needs to you need a place to go to watch i think it is weird that studs theater i used to live there next to there in west hollywood uh not too far and i thought the internet's been around for so long now i don't know why you'd want to go to a theater other than the communal aspect of watching porn together in a room which i think might be fun i think there's something there i've never done that watch porno with other people no but i remember fred Willard got in trouble for being in a porno theater very late in his life. He did?

Yeah, and I don't know why it was a big deal. I don't know if he was arrested or what happened specifically. But anyway, he was in a porno theater. And unlike other people... Just doing his taxes. One assumes. Yeah. Like he's old school.

Maybe he just enjoys the theater space. Yeah. But then he went on The Tonight Show, I think, and just just made jokes about it he just did the thing no one really does yes he completely dismissed the controversy made three hilarious jokes about it they read in the world just like yeah that's well because also i think with that kind of stuff there's it's not illegal i mean we live in this weird puritanical society where we do this thing sometimes where we like, we judge the moral compass of people's decisions if they're not illegal. It's like, he didn't do anything illegal.

So you're just judging it based on the idea you don't like the behavior that he went inside of a porno theater? I'm not sure what would be illegal. Is there something in the theater? I think you can't masturbate in there. I think you can't pull your genitals out. Yeah. But I don't know.

It's a form of torture, right? To have porno theaters with that rule. Right. They have to have, they give you books to put on your crocs so you don't get a hard on. Or for the cops to even break in. Right. Hands up! Just one hand up on everyone. It's a setup. The whole thing is a setup.

It is. It's bound to fail. It's just, it's a bad idea to begin with. Also, yeah, because Paul Reuben, he got caught in a theater as well. same idea but i remember because he was pb herman that's why they got mad at him he couldn't go on a show and make jokes because he was a kid programmer yeah if you did kid programming it's like you're not allowed to do that fred can do that you know it's like well he's a comic it's he's an adult he does comedy for adults i don't i don't understand any of that stuff of like the moral compass of people wagging their finger like i you know and i re-watched the tiger woods

documentary the same thing of like it was amazing that documentary it was probably one of the best i've ever seen them put together and ultimately a very compassionate documentary about child abuse really yeah truly about his dad was a terrible person. Yeah, who trained him to be this force but messed with his head, screwed him up sexually, screwed him up in terms of how he related to people and the world. But I'll tell you, at the end of that documentary, I was bawling. I found it so emotional just that they started talking about him just being nice to the other golfers, that he was finally connecting with people in a real way. Right.

After never really having those types of relationships. Yeah. It became a story of healing. And that is my favorite thing. Sometimes, you know, people think it's corny, but I do want to watch stuff about the human struggle and see people get a little better. They don't even have to get a lot better. Just a little. Just a little.

Like, yeah, there's movies that are kind of cool and independent because at the end you shoot the lead in the head and it's over and you watch his blood spill out. And everyone's like, well, that's an artist. I do love that. But it's not a hard choice to make, the dark choice. Right. You know, it's not difficult.

I mean, when you can really pull off something like that documentary where you are so invested in his emotional journey, you forget about the sports thing. Yeah. And when they have that section where they're talking about how mean everyone was to him when he was getting divorced and to his wife, and then at the end when he wins the Masters. And it means something else, right? It's just about someone who doesn't give up.

And then, of course, he just got in a car accident. So what does it mean? I don't know. Maybe it was all bullshit. We go dark at the end. That's how we do it. We have to go dark at the end. The story of redemption, like, anyway,

he flipped a Yukon going 85 by Terranay or whatever. Do you think, like, the people who made that movie just go, we need a little, let's just add 10 seconds after the credits made that movie just go, we need a little, let's just add 10 seconds after the credits to catch you up. We just need a little bit of something

just to give you full speed spectrum of what's happening. Would you go 80 at like 7.30 in the morning and on a 30 mile an hour zone? Would you ever do that? Fancy and I,

we actually take a trip every Sunday morning. He has a McLaren 720S and we'll drive it up the coast and we do this game where we say, it's look, ma, no hands. And so we do look, ma, no hands. You close your eyes, you let go of the wheel and he has to drive it from the passenger side, which is also, it's tough to do. Yeah. At that speed. We go about 95 to 110. Yeah. And I like to risk it. I just figured why not? So far so good. Yeah. We're still here. We're sitting here with you.

I breezed over this mentally, but I do want to ask you, what do you think was, because you were talking about when you were writing, you know, we're talking about the tough of writing during the pandemic.

What do you think, do you remember the first personal thing you put down? Like that you, instead of just writing a comedy script or a script from like somewhat, semi taken from your

personal experience do you remember the moment you're like oh this is really a piece of me i'm putting down on the thing and i'm a little anxious about it about putting it out to the world i the first like really personal thing you put down yeah i think that uh you know the one that uh was meaningful to me. 40-year-old virgin. Was some, well, yes, very much so. But probably the, some Freaks and Geeks details that were specific to me. To your real high school experience.

So when I was a kid, my parents got divorced. Paul Feig's parents didn't get divorced. So when there were broken homes in the show, I was always pitching a lot on that and what that felt like. There was an episode that J. Elvis Weinstein wrote, I think.

And it was about Sam Levine's character, Neil. And he finds out that his dad's cheating on his mom. And how he deals with it is becoming obsessed with ventriloquism. And I really related to this idea of being interested in the arts, like whatever, stand up or magic. You know, that is a funny nerd's reaction to- Trauma. Stress, trauma, and anxiety is to become obsessed with something

right i have to fill my time and i remember like practicing juggling or i knew people were doing magic and making money i'm like i gotta learn magic so i could make money when i'm like 13 or 14 and in the big scene he's like doing the pentecost in his parents' party and just goes off on the dad. Right. As the puppet. And, you know, those kind of things, you know, I didn't write the episode, but just in terms of pitching in the room and sharing your pain. That's what I did at Freaks and Geeks. I tried to just be as honest as I could about how how strange it felt having step parents yeah uh on both sides that you're just you're just like a little kid and you're

uncomfortable and you're guilty and so there was an episode where bill's dad i mean bill's mom starts dating the gym teacher and that was an episode i directed and there was a scene where bill comes home alone after school and he watches shandling on the dinah shore show and it's to this who song called i'm one and it's just him watching shandling eating cake and grilled cheese and it's just him laughing to shandling being hilarious you don't hear anything gary says it's just all to the who right and that was my entire childhood was coming home after school my friends would play sports and i would watch like the mike douglas show and eat cake and grilled cheese yeah i'd watch jeff altman or michael keaton do stand up yeah and that was

my friend and so when you watch that it's a really sad scene but it's how i felt my whole childhood it's like you watching the tonight show there, you know, when you're a kid, you get such comfort from these imaginary relationships. It's very Rupert Pupkin. Yeah. Because in your head, I'm friends with, I'm sure,

Roof Griffin. Right. I mean, I spend more time with him than my real friends. In here, we pour whiskey. Whiskey and fans,

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And thank you, Sunday Scaries for making sundays chill once again ginger i like gingers when you when you say that uh it just you brought the image in my head because i used to eat hot dogs cold because i didn't i couldn't reach the microwave so i would just grab hot dogs and wrap them in american cheese and i would sit and watch carson and my mom are hot dogs pre-cooked? They're all pre-cooked. Oh, I didn't know. That's why I say cold hot dogs.

I still have never quite known if they're pre-cooked. And I'm alive, so either way. No, they're all pre-cooked, but I would eat them cold. That's why I used to say raw hot dogs, but there's no such thing. But I'd eat them cold with wrapped in American cheese, and my mom would be like, were you eating last night? Did you sneak in outside and watch Carson? And I'd say, no way.

And she'd find American cheese wrappers hidden all over the home like in the bathroom drawers and stuff because i was embarrassed that i would sit and just eat and eat and eat and watch carson but it was very comforting but for me it's interesting you say that just because like for me it wasn't a trauma response much as it was like uh you know like my parents got divorced when i was one i don't know them together so there was none of that those moments that you talk about where i hear it from friends the shattering of the home but it was like i never even knew those people in the same room yeah so for me the the entertainment or the comedy aspect that came into my life was because my grandfather used to make fun of everything i mean he he was just he's a chicago firefighter and one of the funniest guys i ever

knew all he did was shit on stuff and i love the quippiness i it gave comfort to like you know they they poor is the wrong word but you know broke is probably the right word you know because that era you just make enough money to get by and it was fine and i think that was his always his response to the haves you know because the have-nots would always shit on the halves and punch up and so then i kind of learned that and that's where i got my comedy itch from and was he alive your whole childhood yeah he passed he only passed away less than a decade ago yeah he was my hero as far as comedy goes yeah he was just so fast like he was just he could he could make a joke out of something quite tragic and quite sad and i think that was just their oh their response always to you know what it was like being kind of always the poor working class have-nots you know and

being a firefighter i you know i got to be around a lot of firefighters by working with pete davidson king of satin island and they're just the greatest greatest. I mean, it's hard to even get across to people who haven't spent time with firefighters. And I hadn't before that. We're living in a world of pure ego. So we're trying to be creative, but we're really feeding our ego and our career and our success. And to be around people who've made a choice to have this job, which isn't the greatest paying job in the world. A lot of times they have to have other jobs simultaneously to pull it off and every day they go to work and really all they're doing at work is trying to help somebody yeah every second of the day that's that's their thing and i said to one of the firefighters is it boring because a lot of it is

just you go somewhere nothing's really happening or it's bullshit. Right. And the guy said, you know, I know it sounds corny, but I kind of just like helping people. Yeah. And it was so beautiful. And there's a spirit when those people are together with each other. They're also doing that for each other in the firehouse. Right.

And obviously, they're not perfect people. They have the problems just like everybody else. But it's very different than what we do. Well, we'rehouse. Right. And obviously they're not perfect people. They have the problems just like everybody else. But it's very different than what we do. Well, we're bullshit. Exactly. Yeah, we're fantasy children. It was nice to just know that that existed. Right.

Because when people talk about 9-11. What is that? It's a date in history where there was a tragic event. I'll have to look it up. They would do that the next day. Yeah. And that's something that you know when you're really around those people and the bell goes off and they run out and your heart pounds

thinking where the fuck are they going yeah because while we're shooting in the firehouse the real people are there working having to go out on calls and i'm we're seeing them leave and and you really you get scared every every single time and and 9-11 wasn't a special day it was any day to those people they're always going to walk in that building and they're they're going to walk in the building two days later even after that happened yeah and and it takes a special kind of mindset to go yeah i'm going to put it all on the line for other people and as a result of it they, they have an amazing spirit. Yeah, they have to because they're sacrificial. They're like, oh, well, I guess this is my goal is to just take care of the thing and not worry about me second. I'm busy in the basement

tying my shoes. I'm like, I'll be up in a minute. And the truck is gone. I'm like, shit, I missed you guys. That's me. I'll stay and cook. That's why we hired Burr in the movie, because we needed someone like your grandfather. Yeah. We needed to have someone hysterical in that space to go, yes, there's something wonderful and selfless about it, but also they're just busting balls all day long. And they're so funny. And there's like a strange summer camp vibe. Yeah, no, it is.

To it also. It's because the boys are back. You know, like whenever I used to run past, by the way, you could have hired me as Burr's kid, but that's fine. Yeah. Definitely. But, but I don't want him to hear that. Because we're not that far in age.

But he, but there, every time I used to walk past the West Hollywood fire department, when I was going to like Lubitsch or something to do a set, those guys sometimes would be out late at night, like playing ball or hanging out in the streets just to like, just have their night exercise. And I was like, Oh God, that is like, it is like camp. It's just like, you get to, you're meeting up with you. It seems like the camaraderie is so strong that probably aids in the thing that we're talking about. Whereas like the sacrifice part is because, well, they they're all doing it so they're all in on this game together yeah you know it's almost like they have to be in shape for each other oh yeah you

have to be in good shape to save for those calendars oh right and the calendars you do need to be in good shape should we do a uh director actor producer calendar of me of regular bodies exactly why don't they do that regular bodies bodies? You know, they took a poll of, I can't remember what magazine did it, but they took a poll of like from porn stars and sex workers, like OnlyFans. And it was like 70 something percent of women preferred regular dad bod, quote unquote,

to guy who has too many muscles because guy who has all the muscles because guy has all the muscles he's going to spend more time on himself than he ever would on you and i was like that's see that's the influence that we need to be putting out there i've been doing trying it my whole life it's working i i mean i i've talked about on stage but someone said you got to read this article about dad bods and i clicked on. And the picture in the article was me. It literally was like, I was like the definition of it.

But it's funny because Mark Wahlberg, I guess is doing some movie now where he's supposed to be out of shape. Out of shape? Out of shape. And he's, you know, he literally would get up at, I think three in the morning and start working out. The schedule is obnoxious.

And, but now he's, he's looks like me or worse or kind of the same. And he posted a picture of it like last week on Instagram or something. Yeah. Yeah. And people loved it so much. They were so thrilled to see him out of shape.

And then I think Will Smith then posted his like pandemic out of shape. Well, he's doing a challenge to get in shape. He's doing this whole like, OK, I think Will Smith is doing it because he's so... He's monetizing it. Yes, he's so skilled and talented. He can go, I'll eat shit for a week and then watch me get in even better shape than I was in before. That's what cool guys can do. I try that challenge, I would gain one pound over the course of all of that, look worse, lose more hair. It just wouldn't work out you know what i mean it's it's nice to know

that i've allowed it all to fall apart like i'm i'm i'm moving so fast to looking like mel blank or lou jacobi and my wife gets so upset because you know when we go out i have got it down where i'm not joking from the moment she says let's we're gonna leave in five minutes i can take a shower and get dressed five minutes in five and i could be in the shower in two minutes put on my clothes throw my hair to the side put on deodorant and be in my sneakers and she says well she's just so annoyed at that and it keeps getting reduced and reduced and reduced she wants me to care more yeah you know but they they do they want you to care they want me to care

because also that's part of when you're married for a long time there's this agreement that you won't fall apart right like i won't make myself someone you don't want to be with so are you upholding your end of the agreement i'm i'm in the... Like our last... She's not furious about it. I lost a bunch of weight during the pandemic, like 16, 17 pounds. I put on about half of it in the last few months. And there was a moment of pride where I saw 189 for the first time in decades.

Yeah. And I was like, wow, 180. I'm doing the 180s. And then now I'm right back at 200. So I have to try again. You got to get a 189 tattoo on your wrist to remind you how girls have breathe on their wrist. You know, that's what you need. 189 is your, what's your secret? What's your late? I've asked this to so many guests. What's your shitty late night or you're just your shitty guilty thing

that you're like, well, this is why I gain weight because I can't get away from eating this shit. why I gain weight because I can't get away from eating this shit. I can eat perfect meals all day and then be eating like nachos or just like chips, chocolate covered almonds, some sort of power bar that I've convinced myself is healthy but isn't. Right, it's just all sugar. Maybe I'll be like quietly pounding an enormous amount of raisins or something, but it's just enough to never lose weight. Right. I'd have to eliminate that. Yeah, like if I could eliminate all but it's just enough to never lose weight. Right. Like I'd have to eliminate that.

Yeah. Like if I could eliminate all of that and just have a piece of salmon. You don't have a, you don't have a shit thing that you go to every time. That's like a, this is the bad thing. Like ice cream is my late night. I'm going to eat ice cream.

Like during the pandemic, there was early in the pandemic, there was a moment where for the first time in my life, and it seems weird, but the first time ever where i ate a pint of ice cream and then ate another pint of ice cream that was the as far as i've ever gotten the bang and i never even considered it like oh you could just start the next one you're allowed to keep going and with the cholesterol and all that i mean it's literally

like 3 000 milligrams of cholesterol. It's a lot. That was bad. So I can go to the ice cream because what, I have a thing, I love being stuffed. Oh, you love feeling full. I love feeling full. I love like almost passing out

from being full. I like when all the blood leaves my head and goes to my stomach. You know what it's from when I was a kid? I swear to God, we used to eat McDonald's like five days a week.

We used to eat it all the time as a kid, yeah. And I would have two quarter pounders with nothing on them. No ketchup, no cheese, nothing. Just the meat and the buns? Yeah. Then I'd have a hamburger, nothing on it. A large fries, a small fries, a shake, and a Diet Coke. And I would get so stuffed, and I loved it.

I think all the recipes are different now i haven't had mcdonald's in you know why decade we've talked about this people always say that i don't even changed everything it's it doesn't taste different yeah whatever the pink slime i don't know oh the sludge chicken yeah i mean none of it is what it felt like as a kid where it did feel like there was some burger in there somewhere there was there was i mean it used to be non-frozen meat once they learned that they could freeze it mcdonald's was like we're not paying for refrigeration anymore we're gonna freeze this stuff so there was glory days i guess of of the mcdonald's so i think i'm chasing my mcdonald's hot go to in and out that's the that's the move just get one of those uh i just i'd have

ice cream at night and uh i'm uh you know i'm a booze and beer drinker and and we're only not drinking now because um because judd was drinking all morning already and he said no more for me but i can't not have a beer when we go have like a burger like it's like i want to have a couple of beers and a burger and i know that once a week i'm going to my favorite spot to go get a burger and a couple of beers yeah and that added on to the other shit that i sneak in it's always going to keep me in fluctuation like it's just i'm never going to break out of that i'd like to think one day i could stop that stuff but it's never gonna i'd rather just die with it you know yeah it's it's uh it's probably the worst podcast subject because we could both just start weeping right now.

We could cry. We could cry about our struggle. Our sadness. Our sadness that we can't just eat all day long. But also eating has always been such joy. Like when I was a kid, we really loved to eat. We talked about it. I remember me and my friends as kids,

we would be like like let's go buy shrimp and cook it like we realized that you can buy it and cook it yourself yeah and we loved it like like the discovery of that when you're like 14 or 15 like we could buy a lobster and try to cook it pull your money and buy a lobster and then going to like beefsteak charlie's like when we realized they were restaurants that were all you can eat when we were like 15 like wait a second they'll keep giving us ribs yeah hometown buffet that's what we did made you so happy yeah i want to ask you one thing about this new york mets yeah this shirt you threw out the first pitch i've openly played that and laughed at it because it's very funny yeah it is very funny and i I only say this because I love you. But when you throw it,

I don't even think you are happy with the throw because the clip, you go like this. Like you were annoyed with your performance and it made me laugh that you were like, oh, fuck. I have to backtrack the whole thing. They asked me to do it like two days before. And when they asked me,

I instantly realized that I had not thrown a hard ball, like in a real way, since I was 14 years old. Like play catch. Yeah. So now it's so long since I've thrown a ball. And when you throw a ball after not having thrown a ball. Yeah. Do it on TV. You start thinking about your mechanics.

Yeah. And you start thinking like your mechanics yeah and you start thinking like do i throw it over my head to the side and if you are conscious of it it's like trying to think while playing the piano the whole thing crumbles right this is why people fuck it up because you can't it has you have to be in a non-thinking head so when you see like george bush do it and he's great well there's nothing up there he's not thinking he's thinking about painting horses yeah he just whips it and he's done it and he doesn't give a shit but when when people think about it you you it could go straight to the side anything can happen 50 cent yeah so i practiced

and my arm instantly hurt because i hadn't used any of those muscles i get there that day they take you underneath like the stadium and there's like a place where you can practice on a mound they always say throw high there's like it's like an place where you can practice on a mound they always say throw high there's like it's like an optical illusion when you're on the mound you have to throw higher than you think right so now that's in your head like what the fuck does that mean yeah and then i'm out on the side and they're and i'm waiting for them to call me out and so they call me out and i think someone's going to be there to walk me through it a little bit. I don't know why.

I just thought I'll get to the mound and someone will tell me what happens now. But they just like say my name. And I've talked about this in stand-up. When they say my name, like not many people applaud. And so what I'm thinking as I run to the mound is I've just found out how little people like me. Right. Because it wasn't like, you know, here's Jay-Z and the place explodes. It was Mets Yankees sold out, by the way.

It was pretty quiet. And so as I'm running to the mound, my feelings are hurt. Sure. Because, you know, you could delude yourself into thinking, I've made good movies. Maybe even New York likes me. I'm New York's son. No no no one gives a shit at all it literally is like you know a local you know city you know yeah it's done and so then suddenly they just like do it and so now i'm in a panic and uh i remember like jacob de grom was like in the outfield near me.

And it's also awkward because I thought, am I supposed to go say hi to him or not? Or do I stay in the mound or do I run out in the field? He's like 20 feet away. Right. And I was just disorganized. Like, should he come say hi to me? Like, are we supposed to have like a little moment? But no, he doesn't move.

So I'm like all that right hitting my head and then it's like throw the ball they literally say like throw the pitch in a panic i throw it it was straight but it did not reach the plate it hit the dirt and rolled in and i said to myself i would like this either to be the worst pitch ever or do it solid. So at least there's a funny story. At least there's something. And it wasn't bad enough to be kind of a great bad one. It was just right down the middle.

It was, so it left a bad taste in my mouth. And Keith Hernandez was there and Dwight Gooden. The gods. And did they boo you? If they raz you, it's fun. It wasn't bad enough to get some big boo i think they didn't care about me at all and and that's all i really took from it was i have not penetrated the consciousness of my home states what if they say come do it again will you do it

again i would do it again i may have to try to do it for the come on call them out at some point yeah you don't have a choice. Get him out one more time. I think you need a redemption song. You need to get out there and have your moment and really kind of soak it up and then redeem yourself. I think you need it. I think you can't go out like that. I'm not in any reels of bad pitches, so that's all I can say.

No, you're not. No, it's not the 50 Cent almost hit the dugout. You're not in that realm. But are you a big sports fan? Because you never played. You just were a big fan as a kid. But you weren't into sports. Here's how my brain works.

I can't remember anything from sports. So if I watch a game and I think, oh, those are all the Lakers. The next day, I can't remember any of their names or any stats. So where comedy, everything sticks. For whatever reason with sports i forget most of it's hard for me to be a fan because my memory my sports memory is bad where like bob costas could tell you every pitch he's seen yeah ever his whole life i don't have any of that i i like basketball i had season tickets to the lakers for a long time and i don't anymore and i like the mets but

i'm fair weather i'm a i'm a guy. I jump back in at the playoffs. You jump, well, but you've never, but you're not like a fair, you won't root for the Yankees. Oh, I don't care enough to- You don't have that kind of thing. Like if the Yankees were in the World Series, I would root for them, yeah.

You would. Yeah, I'm not like territorial, you know, I'm a nerd. So like all the rules of what that's supposed to be in my head, I rebel against. Sure. I know. But what's interesting to me is always like whenever someone says nerds don't like sports,

you know, that old like, oh, yeah, nerds don't like sports. Of all the sports, baseball is by and large the nerdiest. It's all analytics. It's all statistics. It's all strategy. It's chess. It's chess with a bat and a ball. And that's why I always got annoyed when people said it's like, no, all strategy it's chess it's chess with a bat and a ball and that's why i

always got annoyed when people say it's like no uh a lot of comics used to do that a lot this whole like oh bro bro like sports but you're like but nerds should love baseball it's all numbers it has nothing to do with anything else but numbers in fact the only way we speak about athletes in baseball is fucking numbers their numbers are what numbers are what's your on-base percentage. You know what I mean? Like what's your batting average? It's like it's all and you're viewed as a number. Everything about you is a number, which is why I always got annoyed when friends that were like,

I don't like sports because I'm a fucking nerd. It's like, well, no, the most intricates of sports are all numbers. I mean, when you're talking about having a blank brain, I'm a big golfer. I love golf. You have to be empty or a genius to be good at golf, right? That's Phil Mickelson said that. And they said, well, and they asked him about a few other golfers. Like, what about, you know, Dustin Johnson? He's like, you can figure it out on your own. But it's like what Tiger was a literal genius. I mean, his brain was so tuned in or you have to be the opposite which is you know not not to belittle the guy but like john daly is kind of like a flow as you go guy

he's not this over analytical insane but i think there's genius in that of being like yeah i just step up and hit the fucking ball i mean there's a great interview with him where he was like they go now that you don't drink anymore what's your your warmup routine? Because he used to drink before. And he's like, I drink about four or five Diet Cokes and hit about a dozen balls and go to the first tee. And you're like, that's like some shit your local yokel would say. But it was because he was so empty about the stress of it that it was just- But it also could be just pure muscle memory and-

Yeah, he's just a pure talent. But he's wired for it. Right. But he doesn't have to intellectualize any of it but there's such a strength differential as the game goes on of what you can do and how you can shape the ball and how hard you can hit it and and the guy's still playing with fucking cancer which is just like i just think there's impressiveness of that i stopped playing golf for the same reason i stopped acting which is me and sandler went and played with Dennis Miller way back in the like 1990 or 91 or something and then I never really played before and I just kept like walking

in his line and oh stepping on his yeah and and he was just like you know hey Ben Hogan maybe uh don't step there in front of my line there and he just just humiliated me all day. And I was like, I guess I shouldn't play golf. That was the last time you're done. You're like, that's it. Well, I tried on a vacation to take a lesson and then I was hitting some balls. And then I went to play tennis and I herniated a disc and had to have surgery. So that's what ended it. And I think I didn't ever do have a warm up. So I just, you know, I went down. You put it to bed? I went down hard. So I put what ended it. And I think I didn't ever knew how to warm up. So I just, you know, I went down. You put it to bed?

I went down hard. So I put it to bed. So outside of then, what, outside of writing, directing, producing comedy and in general, what's like your getaway then? Like, do you not, do you not have a thing that's like your little escape? Like golf is literally my escape. It's the thing that I take away from this. And when I'm not touring, I'm not doing standup, I'm not acting, I'm not shooting this.

That's kind of how I just get to leave the world a little bit. Do you not have one of those things? That's a good question. Or have you dedicated too much of your life to the arts and now you're trapped? Yeah, I'm probably a little art trapped because I might go, oh, I can go to the art gallery or I can go watch some movies. It's all in the arts. I mean, a lot of it is in the arts. I play tennis. If I have extra time, I'll go to the art gallery or I can go watch some movies. It's all in the arts. I mean, a lot of it is in the arts. I play tennis.

If I have extra time, I'll go play tennis. But how often does that really happen? Every couple of years. No, there was a period where I was trying to do it. When I'm finally in good enough shape to do it, I like to play tennis. I finally started walking and taking hikes, which I never did before. Really? During the pandemic, I started walking two hours a day.

Two hours? Yeah, I would get up pandemic, I started walking two hours a day. Two hours? Yeah, I would get up and just walk seven to nine, like almost every day. Would you listen to something or would you just? Sometimes, sometimes take walks with people, but I never wanted to do that before, but I had a feeling during the pandemic that if I didn't get up off my ass,

I would gain 50 pounds and just be on drugs on the couch. But Fat Judd would be cool. That would be a good debut for your, you know what I mean? For that second half of your career because that story I want to tell

when I make your documentary. Yeah. When I went just the wave over the edge. I mean, I was right there because I was like

heading towards 210 which is not that tall. That's a good number. And I thought this is good. This is going to go, I'm going to go all the way

in that direction right now or I have to take it back. There's no middle ground. I will not hover at 205. I need to like, it's going to go all the way up. It's going up or it's going down. You can use swap with Kevin Smith.

You just, he gets really thin and he's like, he is like, it's shocking. The hockey jerseys now look like. He didn't make an adjustment in the. You got to get smaller jerseys. You got to change it somehow.

But you know, I like that too. I'm a hoarder. So like if I had the good jerseys and i have memories with each jersey yeah i wouldn't change it out you're a hoarder in the sense that you just keep all the bullshit you keep all good shit i say i'm not a it's like it's not hoarding if your stuff is awesome ah says says someone who has a problem that's when they go clean out their houses and they're like but all of it is amazing. You're like, this is cat poop wrapped in newspaper. I've got three Paul Lind autographs and there's no reason why you can't have three. Yeah, because one isn't enough.

Yeah, one isn't enough. No. Were you a collector of autographs? Yeah. You were? Yeah, when I was a kid. Me too. And I'll go online.

Like the other night I went online and bought uh a like a an old saturday night live something signed by the cast like from the chris rock era oh wow just just out of just because you want it i don't know i just was like oh that's kind of cool it's got farley on there and yeah phil hartman and yeah i'll go get that stuff and the funniest thing is I know the second I drop dead, my kids will throw it in dumpster. Sure. As they should. All your shit, right? Everything.

And I tell them that. Don't go through it. Toss it without guilt. Yeah, burn it. You don't need to worry about my Frank Sinatra autograph. Just burn it. They're like, who is that? Exactly.

They don't care. My dad says that all the time, that when he cleaned out his mom's house, he's like, it was more heartbreaking to go through all of this shit yeah he's like when i die we're burning the house you're like it's gone all he's like i'm gonna pay a company to come and fucking just light it out because he was like it was exhausting with his brother you know and his sister going there and like having to go through this kind of like piece by piece of things of things of things i went through shandling stuff yeah there wasn't someone to really go through it yeah and so i went

through all of it you and i want to note this uh before we let you get back to work because judd took time out of his day to come here and i do appreciate it very much um you invited me to come to shandling's uh memorial and i't go, and I'll tell you what, I don't think you even thought about it, but I appreciated you inviting me. And I didn't go because it was a huge fan, but he didn't know me. And I was like, I got to pay my respects from afar

because it was uncomfortable for me. I hate those things because I'm really hard. I'm like, for someone who loves, like, look at me. The things are really difficult for me to be a part of uh like crowded things and i couldn't do it and i asked my wife i was like should i just go just to go and she's like are you gonna be uncomfortable the whole time i was like i'll be thinking about everything i'll be i will be you on the mound for the mets game do you know what i mean? Do I go say hi to that guy? Do I have to? Yeah. I have a lot of social anxiety. And I feel like it's gotten worse in the last couple of years. I feel there's too many people. I've met too many people and I don't remember anyone's

name. Even people I know, my brain just shorts out. Andrew Santino. Yeah. And even that I'll be concentrating, right? Even during this. But my brain is a little like slow on the up, you know, uptake about that. And so even like doing comedy again and meeting like another 400 people. And then every time you make a movie, you might meet a hundred people. That's a nightmare. And then my kids, friends and their parents and the kids at school. So there's like thousands of them. And I swear to God, I probably remember like 30 names and so going into any space for me is terrifying of people going like how's it going i'm like hey fuck how are you

how do i know this man and and and my whole thing is i will talk to them till i figure it out and then 10 minutes more so they'll think that i always knew oh I'll give them way too much time. I'll talk to them until they walk away. He must have known my name because he wanted to talk for so long. Yeah, he was annoying. I had to get the fuck out of there. He wouldn't leave me alone.

I do the opposite. I can't do it anymore. When someone, I just go, hey man, I'm sorry. I totally forgot your name. And then they'll say their name and they'll be mad at me for a short time. But at least I don't have to do the thing where it's 30 minutes of,

how's your brother? Yeah, I'm Jewish. That's a whole different approach. You're Jewish? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's part of my thing. That's part of my whole thing. But I...

Gross! I had a brain scan recently. And they said I had brain damage, which I think was from a car accident in like 1990. I got hit from behind by a drunk driver while I was stoned. Wait a minute. Did you get injured, injured during the accident? I think I had whiplash and I probably got concussion, but didn't know it at the time. And so when they did this brain scan, they were like, look, there's, see that there?

That's probably like brain damage ever hit your head. Whoa. So now what I was thinking about doing was saying to people, I have brain damage. That's good. And apologizing and just saying, I have a neurological thing where my brain, I'm having problems with names. That's a good cop out. Do you think that would work?

I mean, if this podcast gets out, it'll kind of spoil the- It might be true. It might be true. It does sound true. It sounds true because there are moments when I look at you and I think, I wonder if Judd has brain damage. See? See?

Oh, that makes me feel so much better. I feel so much better. I think you should start using it. I do like that a lot. Actually, you should just write a film about brain damage, and that'll be your kind of, you know. I use it with the wife all the time. Anytime anything weird happens, any mistake I make, I'm like, it's the brain damage.

It's the brain damage, baby. It's the brain damage. Well, look, I hope that your brain damage subsides enough that you can keep making great stuff. I can't wait to see what you're putting out with the Carlin documentary and The Bubble. It should be very good. Another film I could have been in. But in the future, if I don't get to work with you,

we tried. Well, isn't this a form of work? No. Don't you get paid for this? No. There's no money in this. We pay other people. Jeez. This cost me $150,. We pay other people. Jeez.

This cost me $150,000. Oh my gosh. Yeah. It was done. That's pretty good. Yeah, it was really good. This is a- I do wonder how much money everyone's making on their podcasts.

It depends on how popular the podcast is. Is it for the road, to sell out the road? Yeah. Or like, let's talk like hard numbers. Yeah. Hard numbers. We have tons of friends with podcasts a guy like we literally spoke before this uh a guy like dac shepherd who has like one of the

most famous podcasts in the world that's that's is making millions and millions and millions of dollars yeah enough that like he shouldn't ever do television ever again yeah let's say that okay i feel like that's a good barometer and a comedy store person successful road comic has their own specials they're making good money they're making they're good good money a few hundred grand it depends it just depends on how they monetize it and how they sell it and who their sponsors are we're making i think we make eight bucks an ad is that am i wrong am i right or am i wrong who are your main ads uh this one's going to be a lot of antidepressant ads yeah it'll be uh this will probably be boner pills antidepressant xanax uh

something for dry eye dry eye yeah this is awesome uh like a back hair trimmer yeah we do have that yeah manscaped usually sponsors us do you know that uh someone saying like on instagram they you know they think like they hear you and if you talk about something enough you'll see the ad come up sure and the one that people talked about with me they're like i don't have a cat but like when i'm with friends and my phone's on i'll just always talk about cats to see how long it takes for cat ads of some sort to pop up to pop up and they say it does happen but i have to say for a little while it was a lot of back hair trimmers hitting my instagram and i don't know that's i looked at something on amazon once i don't know like what that's really what it is but i have to say my ads are so on target you me too yeah mine are mine are absurd also what really is a good tell

you don't have to show me but to look yes you open up your because i'll show you mine you don't have to show me but you open up your explore page you know this the the just a spyglass yeah oh no i'm sorry that's the search yeah so like this immediately what is all of that? It's all just... Can you see mine? It's just golf. Oh, if I do the... So hit the magnifying glass. It says everything about me.

What is it? And I'll show you just so you know. I'm not lying. Yeah. A picture of Elvis Presley in the late 60s looking good. Good. A picture of Layne Stanley, the lead singer of Alice in Chains. Yes.

This is a picture of Janet Jackson talking to Matthew McConaughey. These are all my Instagram photos that come up first. And then a picture of Eddie Vedder on a boat. Cool. Zac Efron has come up. Jack Black. This is you. Jack Black, my wife and daughter.

And Bill Pullman. And Bill Pullman. And Bill Pullman. So this is an aggregate of what they're going to continue to pool analytically of what the next thing to sell you on that's what this is that's what this page always is they're going to sell me on a picture of ben ben affleck and uh and and picking up dunkin donuts his wife i bought that this morning it cost me a pretty penny uh look i love you i appreciate you i want we end the episode the same way i used to have to walk off camera, but I don't have to do it anymore. So if you look in that camera,

you're single and you say one word or one phrase to end the episode, it can be profound. It can be stupid. It can be whatever you want it to be. Calm. In here, we pour whisk, whisk,

whisk, whisk, whisk. You're that creature in the ginger beard. Sturdy and ginger. Like vampires, the ginger gene is a curse. Gingers are beautiful. You owe me $5 for the whiskey and $75 for the horse.

Gingers are hell no. This whiskey is excellent. Ginger. I like gingers.