Whiskey Ginger with Andrew Santino - Sami Zayn

Episode Date: April 28, 2023

Santino sits down with his arch nemesis and doppleganger, WWE superstar Sami Zayn! Sami visits the show just before his Tag Team Championship win at WRESTLEMANIA! What a great conversation, and what a great guy! Enjoy! #samizayn #wrestlemania #podcast #whiskeyginger #andrewsantino ===================================================== SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS SQUARESPACE Get that site up and running now! 10% off your order https://squarespace.com/whiskey SEED Use PROMO CODE: WHISKEY For 25% OFF YOUR ORDER! https://seed.com/whiskey GAMETIME Download the App Use PROMO CODE: WHISKEY MYBOOKIE Use PROMO CODE: WHISKEY For you 1st deposit bonus! https://mybookie.website/WhiskeyGinger ======================== Follow Andrew Santino: https://www.instagram.com/cheetosantino/ https://twitter.com/CheetoSantino Follow Whiskey Ginger: https://www.instagram.com/whiskeygingerpodcast/ https://twitter.com/whiskeyginger_ Produced and edited by Joe Faria IG: @itsjoefaria Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What up, Whiskey Ginger fans? Welcome back to the show. First time joining the show. Hey, welcome to this show. You're going to love it. You're going to love it. I know you're going to love it. This week, my guest is Sami Zayn.

Sami Zayn! I get tagged so much online with Sami Zayn, and congrats to him on the WrestleMania victory. I had him on the show before he even won. So, look at that, baby. Cena connected us. We put him on the show. Shout out to Sami Zayn.

He's the man. The Red Rumbler. Love him so much. I am on the road. Come see me and Bobby Lee tour around the country. BadFriendsPod.com is where you get those tickets. BadFriendsPod.com. Come see us. Enough rambling from me. Let's go to the episode. In here, we pour whisk, whisk,

whisk, whisk, whisk. You were that creature pour whiskey, whiskey, whiskey, whiskey, whiskey. You are that creature in the ginger beard. Sturdy and ginger. Like vampires, the ginger gene is a curse. Gingers are beautiful. You owe me $5 for the whiskey and $75 for the horse. Gingers are hell no. This whiskey is excellent.

Ginger. I like gingers. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Whiskey with Ginger. My guest today is one of my favorite people on earth. I say that for all my guests, but I mean it once again. Today, it is my arch nemesis, Sammy Zane. You're here, baby. Yeah, yeah.

You don't have a drink, otherwise we would cheers, and that's okay. We'll do air cheers on a Perrier. Here you go. Air cheers, because I can't cheers real. I can't cheers it without. Is that a rule? That's an old Irish rule. Now, you look like an old Irishman, but you're not.

Well, so I was going to ask you about your background. Because Santino. I'm Sicilian and Irish. Okay. So the Irish is, I'm assuming, where the red comes in or not? Not necessarily. Is that from the Italian side? No, no, no, no, no.

The Italian side is my dirtbag side. That's my smoke cigarettes indoors. Well, because so I'm Syrian. I'm an Arab and I don't look it. I know. So I thought that was a commonality. What's this about you being Syrian and looking like someone that's related to me? A brown-eyed redhead, by the way?

You know, there's like none of us. We're the rarest of the gingers. Why? What are redheads normally? Most gingers are light eyes. Green eye? Blue eye. Well, blue is the most common eye color, but most are blue eye.

Brown eye, redhead, tough to see because we're the prettiest. What you've got is a little bit of what I got. You don't have that... I don't want to offend anybody with this comment, but almost like- No, no, no. Irish thing? Say it. No, no, no. I'm saying the very, very fair skin.

You look like you can catch a tan. I can catch a little baby tan. You'll burn, but you can catch a slight tan. That's exactly right. I'm the same way. You'll catch a little one. I don't have that... The ginger, you know, the ginger image is like very, very almost like porcelain skin. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no.

Little Japanese girls are porcelain. We're ghastly ghosts. Irish people are ghastly ghosts who creep people out and they've got such a strong accent that is so pale and see-through. such a strong accent that is so pale and see-through. No, I didn't get the... I don't look as Irish as I am, but I don't look Italian at all. Zero.

And I'm right down the gut. So if you know my name, and you're Arab, and you saw my name, you'd be like... You know? Yeah, it doesn't match up. The same with you.

I'm wondering if you're like Santino. Santino. And people look up at you, and you're like... Do you get harassed at the border? No, so that's the... There's the white privilege, actually. I'm wondering if you're like Santino. Santino. And people look up at you and you're like. Do you get harassed at the border? No. So that's the, there's the white privilege actually. So I had a hyper awareness of what white privilege was before there were words to articulate

it. Right. Because I just knew like, oh yeah, I look white. So I get through the border all the time. Yeah. They don't say anything to you. They don't say anything. And also you're a Canadian born kid.

Yeah. So, so you're a Syrian who's a Canadian who now works in the States mostly. Yep. And then when you go back to Syria, I don't ever, I haven't, I, so my parents were born there and they moved off to Canada. So we've only, and you know, we didn't have a lot of money growing up. So a trip to Syria was like, you know, three, four years you save up money and then you go so i'd only been a handful of times and the last time i went was 1998 oh so you yeah you never go i don't go i have not been in my adult life do you want to go i'd love to go one day when things are you know when things are working out for you i think you're doing pretty well not for me for the country yeah that's right yeah yeah yeah you know you could be

the savior be the be the voice of syria yeah i'm not i'm not sure that's how it works you don't know politics man just go over there and say i'm here yeah not sure that's how dictators sammy's here yeah but it would be funny if you were this big revolutionary who looked like this that was a savior for the syrian people there you go right but actually it's slightly more common than people think there are a lot of fair skin there are redheads it's not in syria yeah it's slightly more common than people think. There are a lot of fair skin. There are redheads. It's not- In Syria. Yeah.

Really? It's not totally uncommon, no. Well, because typically, like in my world, in America, when somebody sees you with red hair, they immediately go Irish. Irish. Right. But what's ironic about that is when you go to the UK, most of them think you're English or Scottish because most of

the redheads are in england and that's right way more than ireland yeah it's insane i find no it is i've been all over scots are all redheads like every fuck i've never had a scottish person who doesn't have red hair and england is littered with these people england's where i see them the most it's gross yeah it's awful it's like almost common yeah it is too i don't know how it was for you growing up but for me it was like uh not i don't know how it was for you growing up, but for me, it was like- Not common. I don't want to say a freak. No, it was freak. But like I was the only redhead and there was one other redheaded girl and it was like,

oh, the two redheaded people in school. You know what I mean? You guys are going to- Yeah, you're going to get married. You know, when you're like in grade three, you guys are going to get married. No, it was rare. It was very, very rare. And especially in like entertainment, you saw no redheads.

None. I've talked about this on the show. The only ones were, they were always this. They were like Farkas from A Christmas Story where you were a bully, or you were like the angry, ugly bully with braces. Or like Sid, the kid from Toy Story. Right, right. You were like a freaky menace of some kind.

A freaky menace. A freaky menace. My next album coming out, Freaky, right. You were like a freaky menace of some kind. A freaky menace. A freaky menace. My next album coming out, Freaky Menace. You were. You were this ugly freak. And I was only children. There were no... What redheaded adult was like Ron Howard?

Yeah, but he quit when he was like a teenager. He stopped after Happy Days. That's it. Nowadays, there's a few. I think Seth Rogen deserves a little credit and like breaking down a bit of a wall he's got he's got a little bit of uh some of the tinge of ginge i don't even think he's all that rouge to be honest he's not he's he's got tinge of ginge he's got tinge of ginge by the way you have seth rogan face so i get compared to him a lot but i don't really see it

but then you do a little bit i guess. But then- You do a little bit. I guess I do a little bit. You do a little bit. I get put against you on the- The reason that this beautiful birth happened, I tweeted at you or I DM'd you on Instagram because the amount of times I get tagged by hardcore wrestling fans, they get tagged like, good to see Santino's in the ring this weekend. It'll be your picture, just like wrapping someone's neck

around your arm and then i at some point i was like i gotta reach out to this guy i'm constantly getting tagged as you by all these wrestling fans and then of course when i had seen on the podcast i told him i was down to fight because i've been training with him right and i mean it today we're gonna fight live on the show here at some point we're're building to it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is going to get real confrontational, but a half hour in and then it's going to, I want to keep the viewers to the end of this.

So the payoff is at the end. We wrestle at the end. No, but I had to say something cause it was in entertainment. That's the big joke is like any time a redhead is anything I'll get tagged or I'll get same. Yeah. It's like the funny things I was going to say, we look nothing alike.

But then as I sit here, we're dressed exactly the same with the's like the funny things i was gonna say we look nothing alike but then as i sit here we're dressed exactly the same with the same we're the same guy yeah we have the exact same style yeah but redheads we're only allowed so many colors right blue black i'm getting away with murder with purple it was there it was the first thing i know losing my mind right now wow but blue and black are blue and black are my only colors i wear i'll throw in a splash of this because i know it's a one thing and then you're good. One color can pop. But you know, we can't wear orange.

We can't wear yellow. We can't wear red. We can't wear- I wore a red t-shirt the other day and I fell. You're off your head. Oh my God. You're a psychopath. You look like a road cone.

Slow down. You're losing your mind. Is it maybe because we got older? I feel like I wore more colorful clothing as a younger person. Yeah, but also, how old are you now? I'm 38. Yeah, we're almost the same age. Uh-huh.

Because we grew up in the late 80s and early 90s. Colors were cool. Everything was bright and fun. Yeah. And then we realized, I don't want to be made fun of this much. Let's tone it down. And then you become a teen and you want to feel cool. So you'll wear colors that don't make you look as bright as you already are.

I mean, look at how bright we were. Yeah. Not in the mind, just in the face and body. Although you seem like a bright guy. Do I? Yeah. You know, part of another thing that I like about the opportunity that this presents this podcast is I know almost nothing about you. That's good.

Same. And you know almost nothing about me. Perfect. Which is great. So it's like an actual conversation of getting to meet someone and know someone. I know almost nothing about you. That's good. Same. And you know almost nothing about me. Perfect. Which is great. So it's like an actual conversation of getting to meet someone and know someone. I know. I said, we have to do this. And it just so happened that you came into town because you're, well, I mean, this will

air when this is over. So people want to know why you're here. He's getting married in town to someone at WrestleMania. He's marrying one of his competitors. You'll have to see who he ends up marrying again wait for the payoff yeah it's gonna be huge but no you're in town wrestlemania down no not downtown it's at inglewood right it's at the sofi stadium yeah yeah yeah sofi incredible that's ridiculous have you been inside of there before no it's pretty new right it's brand new it's two years old it's a baby it's beautiful it's the best football stadium wow i've ever been to in my life wow yeah man well because it's the it's the it's the bell of the ball it's the new darling in town

you know so i'm excited for it for a number of reasons but uh one of it is la even though i've never lived here i first started coming here for shows in like, uh, the end of 2004. And I've always been in love with it. Yeah. But it was such an important place for me to where I, it's really where I made my name. Actually. I was wrestling out here every month for like eight years before I got signed with WWE. So, uh, it just has a really special place in my heart and I love the city.

And now to be coming back for this really huge event here. I don't know. It's like a weird full circle moment. Yeah. It's huge. Huge. Pretty moment. Yeah, it's huge. Huge, pretty huge. What were you doing for eight years? What were you wrestling on?

I was wrestling for a smaller, but it's still around and it's still massively influential. If you look at the amount of talent that's gone through that promotion, it's a place called Pro Wrestling Gorilla. Small, independent, punk style, 400 crazy fans type of a place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cult fans you know, 400 crazy fans type, typical place. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cult fans. Cult fans, yeah. Like real hardcores. And yeah, just those shows would kind of circulate on DVD and all that stuff. And that's kind of how you got, yeah. We were talking right before this started about how crazy, how things are changing so fast, right? Yeah.

Wasn't that long ago where or so the first time i got booked for a really big independent company in the states i gave them a vhs tape as my resume yeah like that was the thing like hey give them a uh an 8x10 a vhs and like your mailing address and whatever and send out tapes and that's how you used to get booked wow that wasn't that long ago i'm not that old right no that's same. That's just in my lifetime. That's not even my lifetime, my career. Right.

You know what I mean? So it's just insane how fast all these things are changing. But, uh, we had to do that in standup. Same thing. Back then we had to, it wasn't VHS.

It was like, um, when someone was like, can you make, can you show them a tape? When I first came out here, when people were getting tapes, you had to get physical,

like those high eight tapes or whatever, the little baby tapes. The mini DV. Yeah. The yeah the mini dv yeah and get a little camcorder a handy cam or whatever and film your set was it like a five minute set a short set back then when you first start yeah you need five minutes to like you know for them to even see if you can get on right uh conan or the tonight show or or even like for a booker if you were trying to get on a you know at a club at a like a c room or d room which means you know you start out at these c rooms they're you know usually podunk nowhere and you know it's like 20 people maybe are there obviously they don't know who you are you're just playing a show and you sometimes have to send tapes to these

people and uh it was like en masse right so like you'd get almost like a contact list or something from somebody and you just send maybe four or five tapes, all your phone number on it, your address. Yeah. And you would literally mail it to the club or the promoter or, or sometimes if you got lucky, a friend of a friend would be like,

dude, I have the contact with the guy. I'll give him your tape or I'll tell him about you and then that you know merge this world of like underground uh shifting around your your tape to people who could get you a gig in bozeman montana right and you drive up there you'd lose money a hundred percent lose money man the parallels in the business are so i don't know i know you had seen on it didn't i again i only heard clips of it but uh he sucks by the way john cena you stink no no no no but there is so many we did the parallels are staggering it's uncanny well also because him you know he was saying and i i want to hear from you too like at his beginnings he was trying to

get a job working for cybex or uh Life Fitness or one of these companies that made fitness equipment. And that was like the beginning of his, you know, well, I would say beginning of his young career as a young adult was trying to figure out how to get to the next thing. And I was telling him, I was like, dude, you doing the hustle to get to the next thing was us, me doing day jobs or restaurant jobs in our business is like every comic, you know, works a shitty day job. Right, right, right. And they know they have to get a job that lets them off at 6 p.m at the latest so they can get to the open mic and get to the next mic and right there reaches a point where you're like

wait a minute i'm making 130 bucks a week i can do this for a living now yeah yeah yeah i don't need that job i buy a ferrari with this money? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you have shitty jobs when you were wrestling that you had to supplement your life? I had two, I think. So the grocery store is probably the bigger one. Which one? Shout out. Oh, small local Greek owned place. Oh, local one. Okay, okay.

Yeah, Grandma's Shake Olfax in Laval if you're watching. Shout out to Laval. Quebec. Yeah, Laval, Quebec, right. And then I actually once worked as a seasonal worker for Toys R Us what does that even mean like you know for Christmas they get crazy oh right so I got hired for like a month uh oh they they let me go fast because it was uh it was an interesting world because so as an Arab and working for Greeks like I didn't really have a set, uh, time when I was supposed to come in. It was like,

I think nine, but I'd show up around 1030. You just work Wednesday. I just got a, I worked Saturday, Sunday. Like it wasn't really clear what the parameters were. It's kind of great.

Yeah. It was awesome. Like it was a perfect fit, you know? Right. And then at, uh, toys are us.

That's like kind of my first taste of like working for, uh, I mean like French Canadian Quebecers who have certain corporate structure, corporate structure. And like nine means nine. I'd show up at nine Oh five thinking I'm on time. They're like, what are you doing? You're like, I'm here. I'm early bro.

Yeah. I was not going to come. You know, I just was going to bail on this whole thing. You're lucky I showed up. I got like, go pretty fast from that one. That's about it. Then you got into it, huh? Well, actually, I did telemarketing for a minute, too.

And then what was the first year I really started making? I think because I used to write down all the money I would make. You kept the books? Well, I would just be. It wasn't like a bookkeeping for tax purposes they think it was just like oh i did this match on this date for this company and i got paid i remember like when that pay went from 20 bucks to 50 bucks i was like whoa and when 50 the first time i got offered 100 bucks holy shit i was like i'm paid a hundred bucks to go to the States to wrestle. Like it

was mind blowing. So then I think the first year was maybe 2008. So I'm only about, well, only for me, it was only at the time I'm like, I'm six years into the business and I'm making 20 grand a year. That's it. I don't need any other job. That's it. Yeah. This is my living now. Yeah. And then, uh, you know, I've been very lucky been very lucky in a lot of ways, but like 20 turned into like 40 the next year, which turned into 50. Right. And over time, like, you know, it's just gone up, which is great. And it continues to go up, thankfully.

But. What was your pay on your very first gig? Zero. What was your first paid gig? $20. 20 bucks. Yeah. I can actually tell you the first year in my business, in the business, I made $240.

And that's because I made $20 once a month. So it was very easy to calculate. Didn't have to file, did you? Yeah. No filing. Didn't even have to. Yeah. Never mind lying on taxes.

You just didn't even have to file them. And you got paid cash too. Yeah, of course. That didn't exist. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, that's wild. Was there a moment in your career then when you made a leap to like a check that was like, holy shit, this is like a life-changing leap?

Because in comedy, we kind of know. There's a couple of moments like that. So there was one, I remember the first time. So when I signed for WWE, I actually took a pay cut. Because it's like, okay, you're signing for WWEwe it's like the opportunity to make money right in a sense sure yeah like i think my last year on the independence i'm throwing all these numbers out willy-nilly but whatever yeah okay i think i was like at the time right after i left the independence the independence kind of blew up where guys were suddenly making six figures who were like just starting to make good names for themselves yeah because there was like a big indie

boom sure right after i left um so i think my last year on the independence i made somewhere around a hundred thousand and i signed my first wwe contract for 39 000 yeah because they're giving because it's just yeah it's developmental now but then eventually you'll make good money, which is what happened. But sure. So, you know, I wasn't too nearsighted about it thinking like, Oh,

I'm worth so much more. Like you kind of understand when to take it on the chin and when you'll make it up. Yeah. Right. I think anyway. No, it's true. But money was like,

man, I don't know. I'll tell you all about money and wrestling and all that stuff in a minute. But all this to say, I got pretty lucky again, even when I signed with WWE, because even though I'd already been working for 10 or 11 years, they put you through their developmental program, which is called NXT. And I did very well, very quick. So within about eight months, which is unheard of at the time, because they usually take two or three years before they start sending you to do stuff. So within about eight months, they started sending me on the road to do road loops, which

are like, you know, Oh, Friday in Brooklyn, you know, Saturday in Newark, whatever, like a loop, a little tour, mini tour, a four day loop. And I remember like 39 or at that point, maybe I was making 50 grand a year or something. But then that first check came in for that road loop and I opened it and it was like six or seven grand or something. Wow. And I had this like light bulb moment, like, oh my God, that's right. I'm here to make money because I've never actually, I know this is super cliche. I never even thought about money. I'm telling you, I know it sounds so cliche. That whole thing about when you enjoy what you do, you never work a day in your life.

Money has always been such a, like, it's so not why I do this. Right. You know what I mean? Right. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy having it versus not having it. Yeah. As most people would.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even though I do carry a lot of guilt for money, but that's a whole other conversation. We can get into that later if you want. Yeah. Are you sure you're not Irish? Yeah. Well, I was brought up Muslim, so it's like, you know, there's a lot of, yeah. A lot of shame, a lot of guilt, a lot of shame.

But you know what? I'm actually pro-shame. Yeah. Pro-shame. I'm pro-shame. You should feel a little bit bad about your success. Yes. Yeah, you should. Yeah, you should. Like humility bordering on shame. That's like the sweet spot. Yeah.

Not too much to where, you know, you hate yourself and you hate life. I tend to lift a little bit more shame than humility. I like to really slather on the shame some nights and really get sad about it uh i try to walk the line man for you i try to walk the line show me your way you need it you need it so that you're not a cocky asshole who loses perspective like a little bit of shame is a d is a good thing yeah my opinion yeah but we'll circle back to that in a minute um where was i going with all this money but when you got that first check, you realized. Yeah, I was like, oh my God, that's right. There's a possibility of making like really good money here one day.

Right. That's why I'm here. Yeah. But that's not really why I'm here. I'm just chasing like, I'm chasing the blueprint. Right. You know, you start here and you get here and you get there. One day you get on the big stage and that's just the blueprint.

That's just what you do and it's like chasing i don't even know what you're chasing to be honest what are you chasing well i don't know i say that now because i'm at the pinnacle of it in a way where i'm like yeah what are we even doing here but like i don't know you're chasing you're chasing where i'm at right now which is to be on television every week doing your art on the highest level for the highest emotional uh connection on just on you're doing your best for the best yeah and getting the best out of it are you full do you feel full in which way satisfaction from the career like it's full absolutely yeah yeah you're hungry for more just because you want to continue but you feel like fully satisfied with your yes yeah it's awesome i'm i'm i'm i'm hungry for like yes yeah i'm hungry for more but uh

within like wow within reason like i don't let it i try not to let it anyway every now and again like you know some um shallow stuff you contend with that a little bit, right? Like you get caught up in the BS and you're on the hamster wheel and you get, you know, tunnel vision sometimes. But really, I just see the whole thing as a privilege. Yeah. And like, if it ended tomorrow, I'd be like, hey, man. Good run. Good run.

Good run. Like I got to do more than most people get to ever do. Yeah. You know what I mean? I don't know. Let's say it than most people get to ever do. Yeah. You know what I mean? I don't know. Let's say it ends tomorrow, which it won't. Yeah. Where does Sami Zayn go?

Where do you go? Me as a human? Yeah. Where do you go? Home. Back to Quebec. Yeah. Home.

I don't know. I don't think that far ahead. That's good. Yeah. Think right now. I never have. Yeah. Like even making it to WWE in theory,

like, I mean, when you're starting, it seems like a Mount Everest. It seems like an unattainable, I don't know, goal. I suppose you want to call it a dream,

but a goal as well. So you kind of just like preoccupy yourself with the immediate goals, like getting booked in Montana or wherever it is. You know what I mean? Like you have these immediate goals and they're so satisfying and they lead to these slightly bigger goals. And it's just this like incremental growth. Yeah. But if you enjoy it on the process along the way, and you're not just fixated on like getting to the peak, then the whole thing is just going to rule, you know? And it has, that's my thing is the whole thing's ruled.

That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel the same way about your journey? I mean, that's a great answer. I like to hear you say, well, it's just cause like our, our rat race is different than your rat race. Like the, the thing that is like when you kept the blueprint,

you use that phrase twice. And like, what's funny is for us, there is none. And there, and what's tough is. But hang on. It's true. That blueprint's antiquated for us, there is none. And what's tough is- But hang on. That blueprint's antiquated. Because there are new ways now. Like there's people in NXT now and like the WWE developmental, they're signing people like fresh out of college or like track athletes or like amateur wrestlers.

They'll just sign like whoever. You're 19. You're a great athlete. We think you have potential. Come on in. Come do a tryout. Some of them don't even know what wrestling is. It's wild. So like, it could just be like, you know who was it like keanu reeves i don't know who maybe it's keanu reeves maybe i'm making this up it's some dude just shows up to

like la in the 70s like wow you're handsome want to be in a movie yeah you know what i mean like that stuff happens too yeah there are other people who are the grind and, you know, the lessons. Yeah, we're all grinding. How we get there is usually extremely different. That's what's so wild. But what we share is, yes, it is this like, once I, I guess, to answer your original question, once I realized that I could make a career out of comedy, and that encapsulates a lot of stuff. Like I wanted to do television. I wanted to do film. I wanted to write. I wanted to do this. a career out of comedy and that encapsulates a lot of stuff.

Like I want to do television. I want to do film. I wanted to write. I want to do this. Um, once I realized that a while ago, it felt great. Yes. I get bummed about shit. I get down on myself about this or that, and this isn't going as well, or why isn't this?

And man, I should, but yeah, for the most part, I feel super stoked and full. And to quote you, yeah, it's been rad. It's been super rad. And if it all went away, still rad. It was still really, really cool. I was still happy I got to make people laugh and feel good for so many years. Let me tell you, I saw this. I'm a big Bob Dylan fan, right?

Yeah. I've been telling people, I'm actually wearing this shirt right now. Look at that. Take off your jacket. Show me off. Pretty good. You use that ever? No, no, no.

But I should do some Bobbo. Do some Bobbo. You know what I was also thinking? It's like if 20-year-olds came to your show, they'd be like, who is this? What is this impression? Who's this guy? Yeah, who's that man? Because like-

He's transcended. People know Bob Dylan. I think you probably heard of him, but so remember there was, um, man, I think I have ADD cause I'm all over the map. I do too.

Yeah. All right. It's severe. There was a whole thing about a couple of years ago where like Billy Eilish didn't know Van Halen. Do you remember that? I remember this. Yeah. Yeah.

And then I was like, oh yeah, well that kind of makes sense. She was like 19 at the time. And Van Halen was big in the seventies. Van Halen doesn't know Billie Eilish. So there you go. I mean, I hadn't heard of her until that.

That's how I heard who she was. Yeah. There you go. But then I'm thinking, well, damn, if you're 20 years old now, you might not have even heard of the Beatles to be honest. Maybe. But those are, that's the biggest band. I know.

I would say they might have heard of them, but you might've never like gone through your friends, parents' records and they had yellow submarine. Like the way we kind of probably saw them. Yeah. Cause when they were done their run and we were kids, they'd only been done about 20, 25 years. Yeah. Like that's how old California love is now.

Right. See what I'm saying? That's creepy. Yeah. I know. Yeah. It's crazy. Uh, how did I get on this subject?

Oh, so Bob Dylan. I've actually been telling this story to a bunch of people recently because it's just been stuck in my mind. And there's this one line that I don't know. It just had a profound effect on me. Right. So he's getting interviewed. I don't like I don't even know what the show is. Just some clip that came across my timeline. And the guy's asking him about the songs he wrote in the 60s because those were just like you know unbelievable songs that

stand that's just unbelievable and he says something about like those songs they're almost magically written like you could never write something like that now yeah he goes wait you don't think you could write something like that now and he's's like, no, but I did once. Yeah. Uh, you know, and I can do other things now, but I can't do that. Yeah. That already happened. And that line, well, I did it once. Yeah. I'm like, God damn. Wow. Yeah. I did it once. Like what more can you ask for? Yeah, I did. Dude, he wrote Mr. Tambourine Man. Yeah. Like, just because you can't write that song for the next 60 years, you got to write that

song once? Pretty great. If you get to write, if you get to do one thing that has that kind of effect, one thing on its own, you've accomplished more than, you know. Everybody. That's what, yeah, if you're a songwriter, like what more could you ask for? Right. Let alone to have a career that spans 60 years or whatever it is, 70 years at this point. I don't know what it is for this guy. But so to me, that's kind of how I view a lot of things like, well, I got to do that once.

Yeah. Well, cause most people, we want an embarrassment of riches. We're preoccupied with the idea that we want a million successes. Having one seems like it's not enough. That tends to happen. Culturally, we tend to just want so many. Maximum growth. Infinite growth. Yeah, we're all, what's that guy? What's the guy?

I make fun of him all the time on this show. That small guy who cusses a lot, gary v who's again a fucking get the fuck out there and sell your fucking shit and like this this new age philosopher of like fuck it man fucking take on the world and just get more and get more and keep growing and keep going and don't stop and keep grinding it's infused into culture this thing about like it's never enough well so that's so and you're touching on something that's important there like culture which means it's not inherent no you know this is yes so like once you start to pick that apart you can like reject it as you please you're like

oh so this is just this thing that was taught to me it's not an inherent human law right that we must like achieve as much as we can and destroy whatever's in our path you know no no that's that is a value that is culturally taught and you know i think there's economic components capitalism and all this sort of thing that colors the way we view everything because that is very capitalistic right like maximum growth at all expenses yeah right like what about the environment? It doesn't matter. More money. Yeah, more money.

Shareholders. We'll buy a new environment. Right. So I think that ends up coloring the way we view the entire world. Even things that we just don't think of it, but even our little chase to success in comedy or wrestling or whatever it is, or even the idea of success. And we can get into a whole thing here about like why are we drawn to these things to begin with because we're kind of taught like it

so like being an entertainer has a disproportionate social currency uh don't you think yes very much like who are Like, who are you, man? I have no idea. Who am I? Like, what is it about us that makes it worth listening to? Like, it's silly in a sense. Well, we're better than all of you. And you better remember that at home. Well, we are. No, no, Sammy, let me tell them how it is. But we are if society tells you that we are.

No. If you're like, hang on, hang on. These people do something that we have said is important. Entertainment. Yeah. And that's important. So listen to what these people have to say. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I understand. So that's kind of interesting. And that's a whole other conversation. But what gives way to that is that we enjoy entertaining. And most people don't want to be entertainers, but they want to be entertained. So we fill a, we fill a little gap in this world of, uh, people want to receive stuff and feel different and think about shit and criticize stuff, but they don't want to be the ones to do

it. We're the ones either dumb enough or brave enough or, you know, uh, uh, uh or or blessed enough to be able to be the ones that are on the other side of it so i think maybe it's a combination of uh delusion yeah yes uh we're delusional a missing screw in your head sociopaths an inflated sense of uh self-worth value yeah self-worth yeah um we're pieces of shit well no but i'm not saying these are bad things necessarily uh on their own but coupled with a society that tells us well that's what's important right with a skill set though you have to have a skill to present right if you weren't good at your gig this wouldn't exist anyway so all this other stuff wouldn't be i'm saying this from a really weird position,

which is someone who wanted this thing and then got it. Yeah. Okay. But what I'm getting at is like, if we have a society that teaches people, like unless you do this thing that is a value. So basically unless you're rich or unless you're famous, you're kind of worth nothing.

And our society kind of weirdly does tell people that not so many words. Right. Well, then you have like i don't know a thousand entertainers and like ten thousand rich people and then uh just millions and millions and millions of people who are feel like they're lesser than because they're not either of those things dangerous i'd say so yeah unless unless you reject the social bullshit like you said and you just get comfortable with the things that you have that you like, that you enjoy. That you say, fuck the, fuck that idea.

Yeah, but I don't think we're really taught, like, I don't think we're really taught to, uh, I don't know. We're not really taught to think on that level. What do you think most people are taught to feel and think then about that? That you need to achieve to be worth it? that that you need to achieve to be worth it well so i don't think they consciously think hey maybe the reason i think i'm so depressed all the time or i'm anxious all the time or all these things that i think everyday working people feel um like i don't know if the connection is necessarily made it's because like oh because i'm i'm not rich and famous and society told me that only rich and famous people

are worth anything. Right. I just don't think that connection is made. But there's a high faction of people who don't give a fuck about fame or wealth. I would say that there's a lot more people that are like, I don't fucking want to be famous and I don't need to be rich,

that I do my thing and I like what I am. Now, I do think that society does have this trick that it plays on the youth, that because of the internet, you need to be one of these things. Otherwise you aren't worth something. But I think there's many more people on the globe that don't feel that way. That just are like, I don't need to be fucking rich or famous. I don't would not want that at all. Anyway, I like this thing that I am, that I'm doing. That's what I'm saying about being full. I think there's a lot of people that are full that don't need the other thing that you're

talking about that they just don't need it it just doesn't hit them you know maybe you're right yeah maybe I was approaching this in a much more glass half empty kind of way I'm full baby yeah yeah well I'm saying I'm saying I'm looking at the negative part of it but you're looking at all the people that just don't care about they don't give a fuck but I'm saying especially in this generation coming up where like you need a following and you need this internet and that right and that sort of thing and like social clout and currency is becoming more and more of a prevalent thing that i can only assume that once you don't have it that will affect you in a stronger way than it you know

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Download GameTime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest price guaranteed. Ginger. I like gingers. Well, I'll give you some soothsaying. I do predict that in the next decade to come, that will be flipped on its head. I do think because of the oversaturation of the internet and to come that will be flipped on its head i do think because of the

oversaturation of the internet and the idea that people want to be big on the internet or known or famous or seen the pendulum will swing the other way 100 i think the cool thing to be will be to reject the internet 100 i believe it in the next 10 years you will see a complete exodus from big massive chunks of social media because people will not want to have so much of their engagement pushed onto the internet because it's affecting everyone's future now that kids can't get into school if they see what your instagram looks like because they're afraid about seeing you party with a friend that you put up six years ago or something like that and i think that this this big swing will go away a new thing will take its place nah something always fills that void 100 but in the meantime

uh it's chaos yeah but all we can do as entertainers is try our best to have fun while we're here yeah writing that one song do it once yeah fucking a yeah um yeah yeah and like i've gotten to do a lot of things once and you're gonna keep doing a lot of yeah so i guess like what i'm saying is when you get old real old right what's real old like i don't know in your 80s like okay late late in life i've got four listeners that are 89 so be careful they're aware they're older you know what i mean like can you imagine yeah did he just say i'm old what yeah fuck sammy jane uh i'm saying one one day uh you're just gonna be like an old guy who did something once yeah that's it that's cool i'm saying that's all you should take like that's how you should look at it

it shouldn't be like well i made like it won't matter whether you did 10 TV shows or you did one TV show or if you, you know, I don't know. But it depends on what you want. If you want to do 10 TV shows. Good. Great. Yeah. Yeah.

Don't get me wrong. I'm just saying it's not, I'm saying the, like, it all comes out in the wash on a long enough timeline where like when you're looking back retrospectively and you know, you're 80 or whatever it is, you're like, or you're talking to your retrospectively and you know you're 80 or whatever it is you're like or you're talking to your grandkids you know grandpa was a comic once and like 30 years of your life are boiled into that one sentence that's right because you're not going to tell them about gigs in montana and the tv show like you're going to summarize it in one sentence unless grandpa's been drinking then i'm gonna pull over a chair let me tell you about montana you know what i'm saying like in in summary i was a comic once you know what i mean

yeah and that's what i'm saying is like i kind of tried to look at it as just like this is this really amazing thing i get to do and i just can't believe i've been doing it for so long and that i've enjoyed it this entire time and And that somehow I continue every year of my career, literally, since I finished my first year in. Once I did my second year, as my third year was beginning, I go, well, there's no way I'm going to top that. Yeah, I'm done. And literally every single year has been better than the last. Wow. I hope that continues for you.

Somehow. Well, I mean, WrestleMania is in like two days and I've got one of the biggest matches. It's crazy. That's nuts. year has been better than the last wow i hope that continues for you somehow well i mean wrestlemania is in like two days and i've got one of the biggest matches it's crazy that's nuts so uh somehow that's happened and i i attribute a lot to luck to be honest i mean i worked hard if you're listening to this i'm doing air quotes right now but like i worked hard sure whatever but like people work harder a lot of people work hard. Way harder. Yeah.

At way more difficult things. Yeah. I don't know. So like I, I think luck is pretty big in the equation. Well, I'm glad you got it. I, yeah. Luck of the Irish. Luck of the Irish.

Luck of the guys who look Irish. Yeah. Yeah. It must be the luck of the guy who looks Irish. Right. Because the luck of the Irish is actually bad luck. It's terrible luck. Right?

What do you mean? A million of these people died because potatoes got AIDS. Right. The expression luck of the Irish means you have bad luck. 100%. You have shitty luck. Yes. Yeah.

So luck of the guy who looks Irish is like, ah. I don't know, man. That guy's got it. He's got it. Yeah, yeah. He got the gift. Did you grow up idolizing wrestling or no? Yeah.

You did? Yeah. You wereizing wrestling or no? Yeah. You did. You were obsessed as a kid? Because I've talked to some guys that weren't, that wasn't like, same thing in our world. There's comics that they like comedy, but they weren't obsessed with standup when they were a kid. I always wanted to be a comic actually. Did you? Yeah.

No shit. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you picked the right one, huh? I mean, it's like, it's all, it's just the same thing. It's like spectacle and performance. Entertainment, yeah. It's the same.

But you're actually a clown who's in shape. So that's a big difference. We don't have to be in shape to be clowns. You have to be in shape, clowns. So I remember- You're going to be buff clowns is going to call wrestling. I remember having this thought. I don't know why this thought has tattooed into my head.

I remember, uh, maybe it was like 2010 or 11. I barely used to work out when I was on the independence. Cause like your physique wasn't as important on the independence. So, uh, I just didn't work out that,

that hard. What are we talking like twice a week? Yeah. And like, there'd be times I'd just go months without working out. Holy shit. That's right. But I was, cause I was scrawny and it was like i was still getting cheered anyway right and it's just like the part of the allure of that act was that i was kind of a scrawnier guy right so that's like uh i don't know i think comedy i think this is actually an over maybe

i'm trying to there's a reach and i'm trying to create an overlap that may not be there, but I think there's an inherent sense of self-awareness that, um, that comics can play off or like a good performer will play off. It's like, Hey, I understand what you see and I'm going to exploit that. Yeah. Right.

Or I'm going to use it to my benefit. Sure. Yeah. It's like, you can't be a 300 pound fat guy and be out there and like, I'm not fat. What are you guys looking at? Well, like the 200 people in this room see a big fat guy.

You can't go out there and be self-conscious and be like, well, I'm not really that fat. It really just depends on the angle you look. Like, hang on. We got to talk about it. You have to have the self-awareness and the presence of mind to know what people see, know what their expectations are. And therefore you can either use it, exploit it or subvert it. However you see fit that's just

like us right same thing right like if if i've never and and i tell actually other wrestlers this we're like starting to come up now i'm like just assume nobody knows who you are and that's really the key to being a pretty good wrestler in my opinion yeah it's just assume somebody in this crowd not somebody because it's actually a guarantee if you're performing in front of 8,000 people, I guarantee you at least 50 to 100 people who are there don't really watch wrestling. Maybe don't even know what wrestling really is. It's like the mom of a kid or someone's aunt who came with them. People don't know what they're watching.

Just assume aliens are here from another planet and they don't even know what they're looking at. Yeah. are here from another planet and they don't even know what they're looking at yeah then if you if you assume that then everything you do will be coherent you can't take it for granted that they know who you are they know your storyline right i'm just sitting in the crowd and then you come out i'm like oh here's this like redheaded comic what's he about and you have to kind of let me know what you're about right right away Right away. I'm assuming. Yeah. Within the first couple of minutes, they got to feel you. Yeah. You got to like, so you're very aware of like, what am I presenting to these people? Yeah. I don't know if you still

approach it this way, because obviously like you've made a name for yourself in your industry. And if someone's going to your show that you're headlining, it's fair to assume they know your act. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But still like, even for me, uh, especially cause I'm on a pretty hot little run as a, as a good guy at the moment. So even now we'll go to a live event and be like, you know, 8,000 people cause houses are up right now. So I don't know, wherever, like where were we just recently? Whatever.

Pick any good city. Yeah. Pick a city. Pick a city. We're in Chicago. Okay. And then, um, you know, my musical hit and chicago okay and then um you know my musical hit and i'll get this really loud like ah ovation i'll be like oh wow wow they really like they know

who i am yeah i'm like constantly surprised because i assume zero right and then i have to work to get them to 100 but if we already start at 50, I'm like, oh man, this is going to be fish in a barrel. We only got to go from 50 to a hundred piece of cake. But my, my goal is always to get them to a hundred. Right. And the, like, to me, the key is like the craft and the whatever, the professional pride or whatever you want to call it is just assume they don't know you. They don't know anything you're about and you have to educate and reinforce what your act is and then if you do that it becomes airtight you know what i'm saying

yeah and they can see that they see that you're doing you're you're not mailing it in you're doing the full act even even for those that already know you you're still doing the thing yes yes yeah because nothing nothing annoys fans more than mailing in in our world in your world in musicians world when we go see a musician who mails it in it breaks your heart yeah because you're like well i like this guy so much and i wish these people who don't maybe aren't as familiar could see what i've seen before so it's like the ultimate sin is to mail it in is to just be like i don't even want to be here right now. It's like, well, then don't- You ever seen a band that you really like mail it in? I, unfortunately, multiple times. And I, you know, I shouldn't say that-

Are you going to name drop them? Yeah, you know what I will say? I will say it. Well, it bummed me out actually. Cause as a kid, you know, growing up, I loved hip hop when I was a kid. I still do. I like all forms of music. But when I was a kid, it was like my first love. And I went to see Nas one time for my birthday. My, at the time, girlfriend got me tickets. How old are you here? This is probably got to be at least 12 years ago, 10 years ago, maybe. So I was, you know, my early 30s, late 20s, early 30s.

And I loved Nas. I loved Nas. Nas, I still is one of the greatest rappers of all time ilmatic's one of my favorite albums and we got really good tickets and i was so excited and we went and saw naz and no disrespect to him it was just i could tell he didn't want to be there right there's a myriad of reasons he could have had a shitty day shitty week and shitty year i could tell he was like fuck this like you could feel it every lyric was like labor intensive he didn't really kind of move he was stagnant he wasn't really into it at

all and it broke my heart now only as a performer did i give him the benefit of the doubt because i've had days where i'm super bummed i don't want to fucking perform i don't want to fly all the way to saint paul then all the way to louisville then all the way to jersey then all the way i don't there's days where you're like i don't want to do this man i would just want to go home i'm tired and you have to fight to not let that seep into your shit but i gave him the benefit because i thought i don't know man maybe he's going through some shit but when you see somebody mail it in it's it's a bummer because you're like man i love you and i know you're better than this and you know you're better than this so it's time you feel shortchanged yeah it's like it's to me it's more like i've and maybe this is only because we're an internal perspective

because we've lived it i immediately go to what the fuck is going on with him? Right. We're looking for the behind the scenes aspect. What's going on? What is affecting this performance? Right. Here's a question. Do you think the other people in the crowd that night felt it? I think not as many as maybe me

because I was so invested in it because I wanted to feel him and see him do his thing. But I think, you know, I would say probably... I wonder about that. Well, here's the difference. Everyone there was a Nas fan.

There was... He is an old enough act now where no one's slipping into that show like, who is this again? Right. That's not happening. Right, right, right, right. So everyone was a fan and everyone was kind of vibing, so people liked it. But I would imagine, let's just say 25% of me's were in the room. Where 75% probably were like, it's great, I'm in Vegas, I'm drunk, who cares?

I was like an intensive fan who was like oh man this is another case of me perhaps being too close to it but i i uh maybe i even give people too much of the benefit of the doubt on this one which could be a gift and a curse i don't know but like i assume that even the 75 percent of people i think to an extent still feel it yeah they might because i think so wrestling's a very funny thing because um and i'm sure comedy again there's got to be an overlap here but wrestling's a very interesting thing where like even if you have uh fans that are not super smart to the business it kind of like i feel like humans in general it it teaches you about a human quality

which is this innate ability to suss out phoniness yeah which i think is like a human survival mechanism so i think even like and i'm you know not to hand wave people here but even stupid people can sense when something's phony yeah like you don't have to be smart to know somebody's a phony or a liar of course like you're just like this seems i'm not buying this yeah yeah yeah you know so like in wrestling that's why it's so hard sometimes to um really really get it right sometimes because if you're trying something that's not you fans will kind of suss it out oh yeah because like it just doesn't click and maybe they can't articulate it maybe they can articulate it.

Maybe you can articulate it cause you're still trying to, you know, figure it out, but it ain't, it ain't working. Yeah. And the reason is like, it's an unspoken thing.

And again, maybe they can't even articulate it, but it's like, I'm just not buying it. Like this ain't real. Everybody feels it. Yeah. So I'm wondering,

I think I'm wondering if those 75% on some level level, weren't just like, no, no, it was all right. Yeah. Maybe I'm wondering, I think I'm wondering if those 75% on some level level weren't just like, no, no, it was all right. Yeah. Maybe. I really don't know. Yeah, maybe. But, but, but I do think that I, but I do think that it's obvious when you mail it in or bail as a performer, it's obvious to performers more than ever. So I always have this, it's tough to performers more than ever so i always have this it's tough because we already have the perspective so i'm always kind of nitpicking when i see live performances no matter who it is if i saw you if i saw a musician if i saw you know what i mean like if i saw another comic but have your performer goggles on it's very hard to take off completely it sucks i wish i didn't but like have you ever had have you ever had a match where you were

exhausted or you had something else personal going on in your life where you mailed it in or bailed on it and you felt bad about it? Or have you just gone, you've just done it no matter how shitty the gig is, no matter where it is, no matter when it is, you barreled through? So this is, again, maybe like a lucky, I don't know how I have this mindset. I just kind of do. I don't think I've ever really had that ever that's great even if i'm like dragging my ass or i'm tired or whatever i really can't think of a single show i've ever done and i'm talking like ever even like bad ones where you kind of i think it's because i've always seen every show as like a um what's the word i'm looking for

so okay i'll give you an example on the independence uh you had these kind of bigger independent shows that had dvd circulation or you know they had uh buzz like they would get talked about on message boards and pre you know pre-twitter and all that yeah and it's like you had good matches at those promotions and it created your buzz and then based off the buzz you created there you'd get booked on smaller promotion right so when you were working smaller like the bigger indies the pressure was on to deliver the goods right but then when you had that buzz and a small indie was bringing you out i felt pressure to deliver the goods. Right. But then when you had that buzz and a small indie was bringing you out, I felt pressure to deliver the goods because my reputation from that last show was on the line for this show.

Like I can't go out there, tear the house down on this show. So you're like, wow, I want that guy bring you over and then give you a half-assed performance. So I always feel like I have to live up to something. Yeah. And I've always viewed every show as like, I don't know if challenge is the right word, but it's something I have to live up to. Like my name is on the line here. God damn it. Yeah. And I've always viewed every show as like, I don't know if challenge is the right word, but it's something I have to live up to. Like my name is on the line here. God damn it.

You know, like I can't, I can't just go out there and I've, my name's on the line. I show my name's on the line every night. Well, cause you're only as good as your last performance. That's what they always say.

Like you're only as good as the last person. That's all you do it. That one time. You know, I hear that. And maybe that is my mindset, even though I hate that expression, but it's so true.

If I came to see you one time, if I came to see WrestleMania once and you put on a pretty shitty show, that's the way I would remember you. I'm not going to look at all the times that you, I'm not going to go back and look at your, your resume and go, yeah, but these were good shows. That's the problem with live performance is they're going to remember that last time they saw you. I know it's a shitty expression, but it's unbelievably true. I guess what I'm saying is I almost put maybe too much importance on every performance.

Well, that's good. That's a good problem to have. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. I mean, it's worked out for me. Yeah. But there are times when other wrestlers are like, dude, it's just a Sunday in Topeka. No, it's not.

It's everything. Exactly. Yeah. It's everything. It is everything. It is. It is everything because to the person in the crowd, that's the goal is for a moment in time, nothing else exists. Right. We're locked in here. Right. We're locked in together. So for a moment, it is everything. It's everything to me and it's everything to you. Right? Yes. I don't know if I'm getting too like idealistic here with this stuff, but like that's why we're here. Yeah.

For it to be everything. You know what I'm saying? A hundred percent. If it's not, why, what are we even doing here? It's a waste of all our time. You want me to go out there and like be doing the thing, but also be thinking about, oh man, I forgot to mail in my taxes. Sue's going to be mad.

You know, like, like that, there's a moment in time where you get to escape all that. You, the performer gets to go out there and escape all that and put everything into this moment. And if you do it well, that everybody who's there will be locked into that moment. And then whatever insecurities they have and whatever problems they have in their life in that moment don't exist either. And that's the beauty of what we get to do is for a moment in time, for 20 minutes while I'm in the ring, for me and for all of you, nothing else in this world exists and nothing else matters. That's the beauty. Yeah, that's great. It is everything. It's everything. It's everything.

And if it's not everything, what are we doing here? What are we doing here? Why are we even here? Again, maybe that being a little- Very deep and philosophical. No, but maybe I'm being melodramatic about the whole thing. But to me, that- No, because it shows that you give a shit and you caring is why you have collected a fan base. That's why people want to see you. Because you care.

Yeah. If you don't care- And I think that's another subconscious thing. Sure. And I think that's like a timely way to do it. Because it becomes like, man, I've been watching this guy for five years and it's always good. Huh? You know what I mean? It takes like five or six years for it to click. Like, oh, wait a minute. It's not just this time or last time.

It's every time. And it's that consistency. At least in my career, there are other people who've got like, like I'm getting this lightning in a bottle. This last year I've had in my career has kind of been this weird lightning in a bottle type thing where the right storyline with the right players and everything's connected and it's somehow taking me to a really like a higher level now uh and it's really funny that this lightning in the bottle moment i got it 20 years into the business you know what i mean it's an overnight success story right the overnight success story of like 20 years, 20 years of this. That's what that's single works. Yeah.

Comedy is the same. Same thing for some. Yeah. But I'm sure there's somebody who walks up like, you know, I wasn't like Eddie Murphy. It was like 20 or something when he did raw. Yeah.

Or delirious. It was a child. Yeah. It happens. There's prodigies and there's guys who get it quick, but then there's also guys like, you know, Colbert or Steve Carell that, or even like Bryan Cranston, the guy really,

really got- Forever. His prime was like in his fifties. I mean, Clooney was the same story. Right. People know George Clooney, but he did so much whatever television forever and ever and ever until he finally hit. Right.

It's not like he got handsome. He was always a good looking guy. You know what I mean? Like he was always a good looking, cool, smooth guy. It just, it just didn't, nobody saw it until they saw it.

Then when they saw it, they were like, oh shit. Yeah. Look at this guy, huh? Who's this overnight success? He's like, I'm 44.

You know what I mean? Like what the fuck? I love those stories. No, but that's, those are my favorite. Those are the good ones because the other ones kind of suck. You don't,

you boo the guy that got it right away. That's kind of a, it's like, who gives a shit? You got it right away. Yeah. The struggle is kind of part of the fun. The struggle is everything. For the audience especially, because then they know the story that you built and, you know, when you have that history, it adds more to your present.

So I think like, again, not to get overly profound here but like the struggle is everything right um i wonder if the reason that resonates with the audience is because maybe on an like intrinsic level we already know that like we kind of know the meaning of life without actually knowing it or being able to articulate it which is like The struggle is the thing. It's all the thing. It's not the thing It's the struggle to get to the thing right because you wouldn't it wouldn't be There's no payoff like you said you you're this You're this nice guy And then there's also the dramatic heel that has to exist for you to even like the nut the other side of it

Like it has to the shit has to be there because then it makes the good stuff taste better. That's just a part. Have you ever read a book called Some? Do you know what this is? Some, S-U-M. I highly recommend it to anybody listening. If you're curious about a conversation

about life and death and what happens in the afterlife and where do we go and what does this all mean? This is kind of a comedic take on that. I've spoken about it on the show years ago, but I reread it again because I told my I've spoken about it on the show years ago, but I reread it again because I told my mom and dad about it because we were talking about my grandmother

passing away in the presence of, you know, of life and death. And where do they go? Do people go anywhere? Is that a thing? Blah, blah, blah. And in this book, he kind of dictates amongst many stories. One of them being, would you rather have all the pain in the world, all the suffering, stories one of them being would you rather have all the pain in the world all the suffering all the crying all the feeling of a broken bone all that stuff compressed into one moment and then all of the happiness compressed into one moment would you rather have it kind of sectioned off as life goes on and divvied out where you have happy months and sad months and and beautiful years and then tougher years and everybody unequivocally picks the latter because the beauty of life is that it's this ever-changing chaos and it is everything because the only way

you're going to appreciate that yeah is when you have the boo that's the only way it exists it's all relative it's 100 you'll never you'd never know the other side you know you'd never know and on that note tell me how uncomfortable uh wrestling boots are truly well mine are like tailor-made for my foot yeah but you wore shitty boots over the years for sure there's no way you you still when you were starting out were you wearing yeah when i started i borrowed someone's boots that were a size too small and that kind of sucked and i like wrestling boots are 400 bucks which again i was making 20 are they really 400 i think they're more now. Yeah.

Yeah. But I mean, that's even to me, that's crazy. 20 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. They're costly. I mean, you know, it's like. How often do you have to change them?

I changed mine. So I'm a weirdo though, because I've kept the same design for my boots for my entire career. You've never changed your design? My, yeah. I don't know why. Is it laziness or is it, is your content with it? It's like this weird thing where I had them for like, uh, probably 12 years. I've changed, you know, I've had maybe three sets of each set lasts me about four or five

years. And then at a certain point I was like, wow, I've been wearing these boots for 10 or 12 years. I'm like, I think I'll just wear them my entire career. That was, you made the decision. But like I, I changed, I also wore like tights my whole career. And then maybe four years ago, three years ago, I started wearing like pants. Yeah.

Like a pant, not just the, you know, spandex tights. So that changed. And I thought, well, if I'm changing my look, I should change everything. But the boots stayed. Yeah. The boots remained. And yet the boots remained. Yeah.

So I don't know what that is. I don't know what sickness in my head is just like the boots. No, no. Like that's the constant. Yeah, but that's nice. That's your baseball player underwear inside out thing. That's like your superstition, so to speak. Maybe.

Even if you're not superstitious, we all have like a little thing. Yeah. We all have a little, all performers I feel like have a little weird thing that you keep that kind of gives you a semblance of comfort or what i mean or whatever that is do you have a boot deal by the way no you don't does anybody ever get a boot deal is that a thing um uh i don't know about like how basketball players have oh no no no no ah you know why wouldn't they do that because like there's not a market to sell wrestling boots yeah but just as collectibles um we're starting here today. Santino

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with MyBookie. Ginger. I like gingers. No, I just feel like, because as an outsider who's not a massive fan of, who I only know so much about it, I always thought, why isn't there some sort of signifying thing about the boots to the wrestler that the fans could then- Well, a lot of wrestlers don't wear boots anymore. Yeah. I see like crazy, and I kind of don't like it because that's like the weird traditionalist

part of me is like wrestling and wrestling boots. Sure. Put on your boots, man. Yeah, put on your boots. What are you doing? Put on your boots, pal. Yeah.

That's the Canadian idea. Lace them up, you know? Lace up your boots, bud. It's like that expression. Oh, he's one of the best to ever lace up a pair of boots. Right. But you got guys going out there

in Jordans and stuff now and I'm just like, what happened to this business? Back in my day. Yeah, exactly. A wrestler wanted to wear wrestling boots um i don't know i really don't know what it is but it's funny that i never really examined that about that um sort of like holding on to something yeah you did so because i do know i i have a different aspect of my life where i do that which is my car car. Oh, you love your car. Well, my car is a 2004 Nissan Altima. Okay. And I've had it for 10 years, uh, 12 years, 12 years. And you're never going to

let go of that thing. Well, I mean like people see me driving in it and it's like, so I was, uh, you know, I enjoy conversations like this. Okay. I always kind of want it to be like a barista or a cab driver you know like driving a new york drive a cab like so how are things you know like have these conversations i like to chat um so i was like making a joke recently about uh maybe i'd drive uber just for you know not because i need the money which is i'm grateful you know to but just for fun just for fun i just want to drive for fun and then i realized oh my god my car is probably too shitty yeah for uber to even like to meet

uber's guidelines yeah probably and like i could obviously i'm thank god once again i can afford a very nice car now um you don't want one and And I just want to drive my Oh four Altima because like, I don't know. It's like the last, and I think this is it is I think it's like the last piece of not like, uh, you know, rich asshole me.

It's keeping you grounded. It's the last piece of keeping it real. Yeah. That's what I mean. It's like this money, uh, this car predated money and it predated, uh,

whatever success, you know, quote unquote success. I see a lot of people do that though. A car thing is weird because for some reason there's a bunch of, like Zach Galifianakis, you know who that is? Yeah. Galifianakis for the longest time had an old Subaru, I think it was, or something like that that he held onto forever. And he had, I mean, hangover money.

You know what I mean? Like what the fuck? He could have bought a spaceship and floated around. But he held ontoover money you know what the fuck he could have bought a spaceship and floating held on to it well yeah he might still have it i don't know i have no idea but so you know what's funny he liked i had almost this exact conversation on a podcast hosted by stone cold steve austin who's oh yeah maybe the biggest wrestler of all time probably yeah probably and he told me he drives a 2003 ford or something. What the fuck? So he outdid me by a year and it blew my mind. We got to get you an older car.

Let's get you an 01. No, because if it's, yeah, exactly. If it's too old, then it's like vintage and retro. No, no, then it's cool again. I just need, yeah, I need something that's like, oh, this shouldn't be on the road. You know what I mean? That's what I need. We'll get you an old Nissan Cube.

We'll get you a different Nissan. It'll be a Nissan Cube. I don't know what it is. I like that, though. Well, also, you don't need the flashy thing. Obviously, it's not, you know. Well, I think that's another thing. It's a bit of me is like, I also do have a bit of a contrarian mindset in some respects.

And it's like, no, I reject this idea of, I've always, even when I was super poor, I always rejected the idea of status symbols. I just thought it was stupid. Silly. Yeah. Silly.

Like, Oh, you're cool. Cause you like, even now I want to judge people here, but I see someone with a Louis Vuitton bag and I shouldn't say this. Cause half our locker room has Louis Vuitton bags, but I just see them.

And it's so hard for me to not judge. Cause you're like, cause I have this. Yeah. Cause I'm like, that is just a status symbol. You can't tell me you like that design. It's the same design on every bag. There's nothing unique or distinct about it. It's strictly a status symbol and how you fall for that. I'm not okay. You know, like I have to stop myself from doing that. Cause you ever gotten into that argument with someone that has the bag? Oh no, it's far too offensive. Yeah, yeah. Even now I hope this doesn't get like, somebody's going to, oh for sure, take this little.

I like that. You're like, I hope it doesn't get out. Yeah, yeah. Three cameras are on us and we're rolling. But I'm actually kind of forgetting that cameras are on because we're just chatting, right? No, but you're right. I know what you mean by that. I fundamentally reject the idea of the status symbol.

Unless, well, what if the status symbol has status with it because it's a phenomenal product? Where's the value in that, right? Like, look, like at a fancy car, right? Like this. I like cars. I'm the opposite. I'm in love with cars. I'm obsessed with cars.

And like a fancy high-end car, let's just take, for example- Well, because of high performance. That's what I'm saying. Sure. So if the performance outdoes the status symbol, that's the balance. Sure. I can't fault you for that. mean look hey listen i'm like i have i'm very snooty about a lot of the things i like like yeah coffee i'm not gonna get whatever like i'm going you can say it you don't drink starbucks yeah or whatever you know an absolute pinch i might but like

i need coffee nerds making my coffee you You know what I mean? Right, right, right. Any losers who like take it way too seriously. It's their entire life. That's your, okay, now we can talk. Right. What are the flavor? What's the flavor profile? Right. Which one's the fruitiest of the bunch?

Oh, it has a floral kind of thing and it's kind of complex. Now we're talking. Coffee snob. Bit of a coffee snob. I like this. And even with like my food or my, cause I'm vegan. So I don't just like stop at McDonald's late at night or eat Wendy's or whatever. I'm like, I'm with like my food or my, cause I'm vegan. So I don't just like stop at McDonald's late at night or eat Wendy's or whatever. I'm like, I'm seeking out my food.

Yeah. And so it's deliberate and it's intentional. And it's very specific. And I, yeah, I want quality. I'm not talking, I'm not, I'm not poo-pooing quality here. I want to be clear. I'm not anti-quality. Just Louis Vuitton bags. I'm anti-status symbol. I get it. I'm anti the idea that you wear this thing mindlessly. It's like, that's, I think part of it to me is there's an implied mindlessness to it. Yeah. Like, oh, this is the thing you do when you're rich. So I'll just do that. Right.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And again, I know I'm being judgmental. Sure. And I'm working on it. Yeah. Okay. I am.

But that's- If the quality, if the performance outweighs the symbol, it's worth it then. Sure. And I'm working on it. Yeah. Okay. I am. But that's the quality out. If the performance outweighs the symbol, it's worth it then. Sure. Right. If it's a thing that does what it's supposed to do to such a high degree, then it's worth the money. If it's the best of the best. It's the best of the best. But if it's a handbag. If it's a handbag. Also, I'm not judging. I'm not judging. Don't yell at me. Interesting that a lot of guys have handbags now. A lot of guys have handbags now. What do you mean?

Well, you said in the locker room, guys have them. Well, the girls have the Louis Vuitton, but you see guys with the backpacks. That's what I mean. Roller bags. Bags is a big deal for men now. A lot of men wear satchels and bags and all that stuff. Well, they're very practical. I guess.

I don't guess. I got made fun of for a very long time for wearing a fanny pack on the road. Yeah, I would make fun of you. See, your judgment about the other side is me judging that's a ridiculous thing. But that was strictly practical. I get it. I get it. I was on these tours.

My passport was in there. My wallet was in there. I'm still going to make fun of you. Fair play. See, because I said, like, with Rogan, I always said that Joe would wear that and he would always shit on me and be like, oh, I can't believe you're putting all your stuff in your pockets. You could put it in there.

And I said, I know, but it just looks silly to me. I don't know what it is, but it does. But it is practical. Let me also say this. But so are cargo pants, and I don't want those around anymore either. You're a cargo pant guy. No, no, no, no. That's what I mean.

They're practical, but I just don't like the way they look. I understand. But I'm going to backpedal here a little because this is my, this is my, this is my, um, mental sort of game. This is your mental jujitsu? Is where I come out with like old habits, which is like judgment or whatever. Then I stop and I think about it and I kind of go, ah, it's not their fault. You know, there's a reason why everyone is the way they are.

True. So even the people that like status symbols, there's some reason in their life for whatever it is that they want to embody that or they want to project that. Yeah. So like, I find myself forgiving people very quickly, but what I wish I can get to the point of is skipping that first step of like Louis Vuitton. I wish I could just skip that and be like, I'm sure they have their reasons and just keep me, you know, like I wish I could stop. I wish that could be my default setting be like, I'm sure they have their reasons and just keep, you know, like, I wish I could, I wish that could be my default setting.

Totally. I'm not quite there. We'll get you there. I'm still at like judgment. Wait a minute. Think about it. It's not their fault. We're all just, you know, we are who we are for a reason.

Anyways. Off to get really specific coffee. But I agree with you. I've learned to become a little bit more Zen about that shit. Yeah. No, but I agree with you. I've learned to become a little bit more zen about that shit. Yeah. And I think it only came from, I think it just came from like other people infusing their, who gives a shit on me? And I used to be extremely like, well, what the fuck? And I had a comment for everything.

And not to say I don't, I still do as a comedian. Yeah. My part of my job is be an observational asshole. Yeah. But then I, you'll meet someone who's more Zen than you and more balanced. And you'll say a comment like,

look at this fucking guy's wearing this thing. I don't know. And then they'll go, Oh yeah. So, and then they skip through it and you're like don't care at all oh fuck i why do i give a shit if that guy likes that thing how could i i i've learned to become a little bit like i used to say yeah when i was super broke and i was living in this um just

repulsive disgusting apartment with like three other men and it was fucking the worst and my car got broken it my hyundai got broken into and they stole cds and we lived in a like a shitty little area and it was just a it was just a bummer place and i was broke and fucking just eating my way through ramen noodles every night and this question yeah finish the story but yeah how do you look back on that time now um i blank it out of my mind no i'm kidding no i think about it all the time is it a is it do you have fond memories of it more than unpleasant oh totally i do of course of course so but it was a shitty let's circle back no but i was just gonna say was in the in the apartment complex next door which was equally as dog shit in the same shitty little area it wasn't like the apartment was any

nicer there there was a guy who had a brand new porsche a brand new porsche i mean it had to been maybe two years old max and i was like how the fuck is a guy who lives here driving a hundred and fifty thousand two hundred dollar car we're living the same shitty ramen life what the fuck is this so i used to judge it and and i would you know i would talk shit about it to the to the guys or I would always make comments or I'd think about it as I'd pass it sometimes walking through the alleyway. And then you get older and you also realize, well, man, if that makes that fucking guy happy, I don't give a shit.

Why would I give a shit? I mean, I don't think it's a move I would make, but also- Ultimately, that is what it boils down to. How does this affect me in any way? Nothing. It doesn't. That's the irony of all this stuff. How does this affect me in any way? Nothing. It doesn't. That's the irony of all this stuff. It's like, it doesn't affect you.

What the fuck do you care? It has no bearing on my happiness or my future. I'm spending more time being annoyed at somebody's choice that I think is stupid. You know, the only person who is affected by this is you. Me. Just walking around angry needlessly. That's what I mean. So that's the trick.

That's the Louis Vuitton bag. It's like fuck it what do i care so when i meet somebody or i have friends in my life who have extremely zen shit that i i'm struggling to get because i have this irish catholic you know italian anger like it's fucking gay in my veins it's hard to like push that out it's hard to like get rid of it yeah but i slowly have learned who gives a fuck. Why do I care? My thing comes from a slightly different perspective. It's not even the Zen of like, you're right. You're right about what you're saying. But for me, it's not even, oh, why bother caring? For me, it's like a softness that came later in life.

Like this is going to sound extremely patronizing, but I kind of like, I feel sorry for everybody. You know what I mean? Yeah. You feel bad. I feel bad, but for everybody. Like for everybody. You know what I mean? Yeah. You feel bad? I feel bad, but for everybody, like for everybody. Because everyone's going through something? That's right. Because like, you know what?

Again, it goes back to like, they are the way they are for a reason. Sure. And if you're carrying this around, like, I don't know what led to this, but like, hey man, do you. Do you. You know? And like, I'm sorry. You know?

But I don't mean that. I know that can sound extremely condescending or like patronizing, but I mean, I really mean that sincerely. I have like a genuine, it's like, uh, empathy, I suppose might be the word like, Oh, you're a human too. And, uh, you know, this is a product of things that have happened to you. And I'm sure you had a tough life, uh, again, not in a patronizing way, but we all, like being human's hard. Yeah. And I've been pretty lucky to not go through a lot.

Although maybe I have, and my perspective shape colors are different, but I don't think I've suffered very much compared to the amount of human suffering that's out there. Sure. Like I'm at the bottom. I'm like, I'm a one percenter when it comes to like minimal human

suffering in my life extremely lucky that's great yes but like the human experience as you said earlier is filled with suffering totally so it's like oh man i'm sorry that you have to go through that sorry you're suffering so if like the next time you pass a Louis Vuitton in the locker room- If a Louis Vuitton bag somehow makes its way into the equation, like, hey, that's cool. Okay? You know what I mean? I want you to pass someone with a Louis Vuitton bag and just go, sorry for your suffering. I have talked way too much about the Louis Vuitton bag. Now there's no coming back.

This episode of Whiskey Ginger is sponsored by Louis Vuitton. Oh, man. No, but I get it. You get what I'm saying? I get it. I get it. Like even, like, not to get political, but like Donald Trump, right? Yeah.

Loves Louis Vuitton. Loves Louis Vuitton. I imagine. That would be great. Yeah. I'm a big Louis collector. I'm the biggest one on earth. There's times if I just look at him as just a human, I'm like, damn, man, it's got to

be tough. Yeah. To be that guy. Yeah, damn, man, it's got to be tough. Yeah. To be that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You carry that all the time. Oh, that weight? Yeah. Yeah, but like that might be a bad example because like, oh, and again, I don't want

to go down the wrong path here with all this stuff. It doesn't matter. But like, I'm saying if you just look at people as human beings and nothing else. Yeah. Like, ah. What a nightmare. Tough go, man. You know? That's all. That's and nothing else. Yeah. Like, ah. What a nightmare. Tough go, man.

You know, that's all. It's true. That's it. So maybe we should all be doing that. Look at everyone like a human instead of the thing that you think they are. Yeah, exactly. Thank you for boiling it down so wonderfully. That's exactly it.

I cooked it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm not good at that. I'm not good at summarizing in a perfect little tidbit. I just like ramble yeah i'll feed you feed me and i got you you know i've noticed i have a couple of comic friends and they're very good at doing that they take what you're saying and they're like ah and push it down yeah right succinct succinct yeah get it down to its it's get it down to the cut all the fat that's what we use we like to say that it's comics and when people are writing jokes and you have a friend helping you they'll say i cut the fat. That's what we use. We like to say that as comics and when people are writing jokes and you have a friend helping you, they'll say, I cut the fat, cut the fucking fat out of it. They say the same thing.

Just cut the fat out of it. Yeah. In your industry, it's a cut the fat out. Otherwise you're not on TV anymore. No, no. But like for sure when you're putting stuff together, you're like, ah, this is. Cut the fat. Oh, you know, especially in promos when you're talking.

So that's actually my process. Cause I'll come at it. Let's say when we're talking about wrestling now in an interview and you have a six minute talking segment, I have all these things i want to say so it's kind of like this is the process i have if i have a a writer working with me right i'm like here just here's a lot help me whittle it down that's okay what's you know and then i just trim it down points and trim it down that's it. And the last like year or two, especially maybe even three, the more time I've had, the more reps I've had with live television time and interviews and all that stuff,

the more you start to realize, man, like there's so much fluff. Yeah. You can say so much less and get so much more out of it. Say less, get more. Yeah. And that's, I guess that's the art and that's the that just takes time to learn there's no other way to learn it but that doing it yeah doing it being like oh i didn't need that i didn't need that i didn't need that you just come

out there and say one line sometimes right if you do it right what's up bitch yeah yeah dude that would actually pack a punch right that's it yeah you're going down who was your when you were a kid who was the wrestler that you thought was king who was your when you were a kid who was the wrestler that you thought was king who was king to you uh the king shifted several times depending on where i was at in my childhood sure so it started like hogan when i was hogan was always the king right and then as i got a little bit older and being canadian bret hart yeah it was my guy yeah and as i became a teenager mick foley was my guy foley's the man the hardy boys yeah because the hardy boys were extremely relatable to me.

They were like kids who wrestled in their backyard. Right. And they weren't giants and they had awesome matches. I'm like, oh my God, this could be me. That was you. Yeah, this could be me. Yeah. And actually that's like, that's when I was turning 15, 16.

I was like, well, I should just get trained to be a wrestler. That's what kind of made it, uh, an attainable thing. The Hardy boys kind of led you down that path. Mick Foley's book specifically and the Hardy boys. Cause Mick Foley's book talked about his journey and, you know, um, that, that kind of pulled back the curtain in a way that I don't think had been pulled back. And like, uh, the idea of like wrestling schools and what happens at a wrestling school and what it takes, like the hustle that we're talking about earlier and sleeping in your

car and all this stuff. Of course, to me, I romanticized it. I'm like, wow, that's like paying your dues. And that's like that. And now he's here and it is romantic. It is very romantic. But I think a lot of people when they're doing it, I think like you asked me about the house. Yeah.

When you said about that, like those fond memories I have of sleeping of living in a place sharing a bathroom with with three other guys and it's all part of the struggle and it was kind of nice yeah like also you can relate to everyone also doing it the beauty of the community when you're when you're when you're doing that is it's the same reason i'm from Chicago. It's the same reason I love and miss Chicago because communally you complain about the Cubs or the weather or the L or the, and that communal bitching. Yeah. It's so warm.

It's, it's so warm. I don't care how cold is in Chicago. I know. Complaining about something as a group. I've said the exact same thing about Montreal. There's like something about living in cold weather. Yeah.

That brings people to get, cause you're all, it's, it're all it's it's it's all of you unite against the common enemy right which is the weather and the cold weather yeah you're suffering as one yeah we're all suffering you know like you're shoveling and your neighbor and you look at him yeah i believe this shit yeah yeah yeah there is beauty in that of course there is of course but that's where the struggle comes from that's where that fantasy yeah of the hardy boys and the romanticizing of like.

So I'm pro-struggle. Pro-struggle. In addition to being pro-shame. Pro-shame, pro-struggle. Pro-shame, pro-struggle. Yeah. So when you got, when you had the influence and you started, did you go to school right away when you were 16?

So my story's kind of interesting in that regard. So I was finishing up high school. I was 16. And when I was 14, I lived in a certain part of town and the kids who lived in that town got rezoned to a different high school i was 16 and when i was 14 uh i lived in a certain part of town and the kids who lived in that town got rezoned to a different high school so the last two years of high school i went to a different school and then as i was about to graduate i got a call from my friend from my old school who i hadn't heard from in two years and when you're 14 two years is an eternity it's forever yeah so i get a call on my home phone you know hey it's uh this guy steve

testoni he's like hey rami it's steve oh hey man what how you been it's been two years oh my god i haven't seen you since the war exactly right he's like well i got a job as an intern on this wrestling radio show in montreal and there's a local independent wrestler here and if you're still interested, cause we used to always talk about, you know, wrestling and art class or whatever. And did you wrestle too in high school or no? Uh, not really. No, no. I don't think my high school had a team or anything like that, but we would talk about

wrestling. We were wrestling when the gymnastics equipment was out and like, we're always just wrestling and talking about wrestling. We say, well, one day we'll be a tag team and all this stuff. Right. And he, he reached out and he's like, well, if you're, do you still, are you still interested in wrestling? I'm like, yeah.

It's like, well, this guy will train us if you're interested. I said, yeah. Wow. And so then I graduated high school and I started training and I, you know, I'd read Mick Foley's book about, you know, the eight hour drives for a $20 gig and all that kind of thing. Yeah. And I'd be there like

on the city bus for 20 minutes going like man i'm on the bus i'm on the city bus going to get trained like it's the same yeah i'm doing it yeah but there was something about that like yeah it's not eight hours to you know but it's still i'm doing it there is something to that i'm doing it you were uh and then like getting trained and then like going to these really small uh companies and just asking them if I could wrestle for them and how often was it no oh no it was all yes yeah sure yeah you're dumb enough this is the Quebec independence scene okay in 2002 yeah the standards are not high I'm like I'm a wrestler. Can I wrestle on your show? Oh yeah, sure. We run every Friday. You're good. Yeah. That's awesome. I mean, there was no money involved. Didn't matter. You got to do the thing. I got to do the thing.

That was us going to open mics. As comics, you would just go to open mics and you kept going and going and going and going and going. They don't pay. It's $0. Yeah, $0. Sometimes you got to bring somebody. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know that like a bringer show? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'd have to get people from like either your office or people in the neighborhood or someone you knew to come in order for you to perform.

So they say, bring three people and you can perform. Right. So you'd fist fight to get people. You'd be like, please come watch me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

People are like, I don't wanna go to that fucking coffee shop. That place sucks. And you're like, please, it's the only way I'm gonna be able to do five minutes,

maybe, usually three because they'd light you fast and get you the fuck off. Yeah, yeah. You get the light, they'd bring up their, you know yeah let's go and you're like i just got out here this is my time yeah yeah that that thing uh you were doing it so just because it was not eight hours the city bus is still doing it yeah you're going to do the thing to make no money over and over and over and over and over and over again yeah and so the um again there are so many parallels i think would stand up and wrestling,

but the, the one difference that makes it so unique is the physical aspect is wrestling like hurts your body. Well, for sure. Right. So I remember doing matches. It hurts our brain and our heart.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it does a bit of both if it goes bad. Right. But yeah. Um, but if you go and you do,

I do like a again just a distinct feeling of doing a show and then catching like the last metro home because i lived in laval and i'd do a show in like east end montreal and catching the last metro on the last bus and just being like beat up and being like ah doing it you know and just being beat up and that just adds a different i don't know what it is no it does it adds something else i don't know i don't know well the physical element makes it more like uh it's almost like when you high stakes high stakes yeah and going back to you know what you were saying about like phoning it in uh i'm sure tons of wrestlers have phoned it in or like let's just give them the

hits tonight or whatever you know i'm sure uh but i think part of what the difference between let's say i don't even want to say naz because even performing musical musical like that that stuff takes more of a physical toll than i think people realize totally does jumping up on stage and all that stuff but you're just giving and giving and giving dude talking for an hour when we do an hour of comedy people have no idea yeah they assume they're like come on let's go let's go out and have something to eat or drink and you're like yeah yeah dude I want to go to bed. I just exhausted my brain and my body. It doesn't look like it, but it really is.

Obviously, it's not physically taxing, but it's emotionally draining. A hundred percent. It's draining. And you have the physical element, which is- The only reason I bring it up is because I think it's harder to phone it in when physicality is involved. Yeah, true. Because there's no way for your system not to get boosted once your blood starts moving and you're moving around.

So I think even guys who go out there ready to phone it in, once they're cooking- You don't have a choice. You're kind of cooking. You know what I mean? Who's the best competitor you've gone up against? I can't really identify one. There's a guy who, Kevin Owens is the guy that my name is like synonymous with. One of your best friends.

We started together in Quebec, like our first year in the business is when we met. And now we're teaming for the tag titles at WrestleMania tonight. And that's just because you're Canadian. That's the only reason why. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

No, it's just like, it's just insane. Two Quebecians that know each other's life. Well, but it's not just that. That's the weirdest part is that like our paths have been so similar and like intertwined at every step we both like came up uh through the indies together

and then we both got signed like you know there were slight staggered parts of our career but we always kind of came back it's awesome yeah it's really weird i don't think there's another two people ever in wrestling that have this same kind of story it's weird fucking rad it's really really weird yeah and he's a partner but at any partner he's been an enemies but we've been everything in between yes it's pretty cool and it's just so unique that's that's what i think and the crazy thing about it is i remember just feeling uh like in 2005-6 when we would wrestle each like, dude, are people not sick of seeing this match? Like they've been seeing it for a year or two. Now it's been 20 years.

But I think that's another thing is we both have a similar mindset when it comes to owing the fans something. Yeah. We have a similar mindset of like we can't rest on our laurels. We pretend that like they've seen all our matches. So this one has to be different. You both hate louis bags uh he probably hates louis but i probably think about it more than he does yeah but he does too yeah i'm sure if i asked him i'd be he'd just be like oh louis bags yeah stupid

but me i have a whole like psychological breakdown for it and like the the social you know connotation beneath it all and all that bogus stuff anyway at, at the end of the day, I do feel sorry once again. If you have a Louis bag, it's fine. People know you're kidding. It's fine. Life is hard for everyone. Yeah, man. Get that bag, dude. Get the bag, baby. So yeah, you can't pinpoint one, but that is nice.

And you're best friends with him in the real world as well outside of the ring? Yeah, I'd say so because I mean, it's just it's a kind of bond that you uh like i mean i have older friends and i have friends that i was closer with at different parts of my life but there's a bond that exists there that like you just like no one else will understand it but him yeah it's like a war buddy thing you know what i mean and at the end of the day, you can speak French to each other.

And we do. Yeah, I know you do. In the locker room when it's like, I know you do. Yeah. I will just talk like if we have to. Say,

look at that stupid fucking Louis bag in French. Oh, sac à dos Louis Vuitton carlis. See, there you go. Yeah, there you go. That's like Quebec curse in there,

but. No, but that, but it's, that's great that you, I mean, that's how cool to have that. Like that's a moment. Well, the one thing I was going to ask, because we talked about a little bit at the beginning, we breezed over it, but I was going to say like a buddy to get a beer with, but you're not, no booze for you, but not that you're sober. You just never, ever got into it.

Well, so I think being brought up Muslim and like alcohol is forbidden in Islam and all that. Bad boy stuff. Bad boy stuff. Bad boy stuff. Yeah, but there's tons of Muslims who drink. I was going to say, I'm friends with many Muslims who drink. Many Muslims who drink. But for whatever reason, and I certainly did some things in my life that are not Muslim,

you know? Sure. Coming on this show. No, I'm kidding. Well, like, I mean, depending on how strict you want to get, I mean, my mom would be like, don't wear such tight clothes, you know? Like, because my mom was ultra religious. My parents were both like scholar level religious, you know, like, cause my mom was ultra religious. My parents are both like scholar level religious,

you know? Um, so even wrestling, if you wanted to make a case for it was inherently anti-Muslim. Well, like, uh, yeah,

things about it were certainly un-Islamic or wanting to wrestle for WWE, especially back in the early two thousands when it was like, you know, bras and panties. Yeah. It's a different game now. it's a different game now. It's a different game now. But there was certainly a time

when it would have made any religious person go, oh my God, yeah. Also, you could say that was WWF back then. Sure. It's a new world now. Yeah, that's true. Oh, it's crazy how much the world has changed, just let alone WWE.

It's so different. Yeah. The McMahon days of coming out with all those women. I mean, it was just like- So I saw a clip recently of a wrestler named named rikishi do you remember him yeah uh he's actually one of the teams that were wrestling the usos at wrestlemania he's their dad so i saw a clip recently where the rock grabbed vince mcmahon's head and shoved it right in rikishi's ass which was like rikishi's gimmick was that he had a huge

ass yeah it was always out all the time and i remember watching and going my god the thing that blew my mind about this clip wasn't that what i was watching was crazy it's that when i watched it when i was younger i didn't think it was crazy at all that was awesome i just thought it was normal yeah i just it was so normal it was so not controversial right and that was the shocking part of the clip i'm like this wasn't like nobody batted an eyelash at this this was like a weekly occurrence back then you know it was just normal did you have to hide then be wanting to be a wrestler from your parents they were super supportive they were supportive yeah because because they may be very religious and very strict but but they never, they never wanted you to feel like you couldn't

do what you wanted to do. Never. So super supportive. That's awesome. Very supportive. Very like, I mean, different levels of support,

I suppose. Because Kevin, for example, his parents have been to like all his shows. Your parents have never been to any shows. The first show

they ever came to is when I wrestled for WWE in Montreal. Right. So this is, I don't know what, maybe 10 years ago, but it was like the first show they ever came to is when i wrestled for wwe in montreal right so this is i don't know what maybe 10 years ago but it was like the first show they saw was like you know 10 000 people in the bell center see they weren't there for like you know 40 people in elementary school in saint rose right right but it's like it was but i didn't take that as like i can't believe they didn't show up it wasn't like that i knew they supported but i don't know i guess they also had five kids, five boys. Yeah.

And they love staggered age. And I just don't like they, uh, parent teacher nights and stuff like that. So my dad recently told me a story about how he went to a parent teacher thing, uh, for my two older brothers when they were in like grade one. when they were in like grade one and my jaw hit the ground because they never had any scholarly involvement of like, they just had no involvement in seemingly anything other than like the Islamic community. Right. Like when it came to like talking to my teacher, it was only like, Hey, he's in a lot of trouble. We need to talk to you. All right. Yeah. Then they'd have to come to school or whatever. Or if they were dropping me off at friends' houses, um, this a cultural thing, but it's like they dropped me off and be like, all right. But they never came and talked to the other parents and were like, oh, hi,

small talk or whatever. What about sleepovers? Do you ever sleep over at someone's house? My parents were staunchly anti-sleepover. So no one slept over at your house, but could you sleep over at someone else's house? It was a big fight to make it happen. But it did happen. It did happen. Yeah. But it was a big fight to make it happen but it did let it happen yeah but it was like they didn't like it and now i kind of get it all these years what was that about why why no i don't well i don't know i think you just don't know what might happen out there you know what i mean yeah do they think you're gonna do something you shouldn't be doing for sure and i think they also worried about something happening to you you know what i'm saying yeah yeah yeah yeah which i think is like but if they went to the door and met the parents

and they dropped you off maybe they changed their perspective still no maybe maybe not man like i maybe i don't know maybe they just maybe some stuff happened in their life that i'm not saying to them but in their periphery or to people they knew that they just knew like leaving kids unattended in a stranger's house is just not a good idea. It is a very weird idea. And like now as an older person, I'm like, yeah, what sleepovers? What is that insanity? Yeah. Like even if I met the kid's dad, let's say I have my son and he's friends with this kid.

Like, I don't know that i don't know this i don't know this guy yeah i'm just gonna let my kids sleep it seems insane when you really think about no it is crazy it's absurd it's and it's like a very i don't know i think a man was at fun it was awesome yeah we got into it was so great but that is where i watched my first porno so it's like yeah like yeah it's kind of right so you can't that's where you're like no parents but but even parents then know that they go well come on you got they're gonna watch their first porno these guys got to break something they're gonna smoke drug they're gonna do something they're not

supposed to be doing it's almost like them facilitating the chaos because they're like well they're gonna do it in my house and at least they're not in the woods so this is where my upbringing is very interesting because like my parents were not just Muslim. They're like, they're immigrants. They're from the old world. Yeah. So it's not, it was like, I grew up a product of two, like I joked about the white privilege thing at the top of this. Right.

But I had an inherent understanding, and maybe this is part of what shaped me as a person, of kind of another thing I touched on earlier was like seeing that things are not necessarily default settings and they're cultural. Right. I think I saw that from a very young age. Obviously I couldn't articulate it cause I, you know, I hadn't studied sociology at the time, but like I had an inherent understanding of like, there's no default setting here because I go to school in one country it's called Canada and then I go home and my home is Syria right you know like these are two and and they were like opposite yeah they weren't they did not work very well in synergy like Syrian Islamic culture in the house and then outside for all intents and purposes I'm like a white redheaded kid yeah white redheaded Canadian kid right so like I understood the duality there

from the jump. Yeah. So it kind of makes you realize like, Hey, that ain't necessarily the right way. It's our way. It's not, it's not the only way. It's not the only way. Totally. And I don't think, I think a lot of people don't learn that till they start traveling. Let's say in their twenties, if you're lucky enough to travel in your twenties, when you go on your first like trip to Europe and you're like, man, in Italy, you know, they take siestas in the middle of the day. They nap. They're not working nine, you know, nine to nine.

Yeah. They nap. And they don't even care. Like they don't even care how much, you know, like these things that we just took as default, the default setting of humanity. Yeah. You like take a six hour plane ride and you're like, whoa, I mean, things are different over there.

You know, like it just blows people's minds the first time they realize, oh, there are multiple ways to do this thing. Yeah. And the way we do it, not only is it not the, uh,

you know, a natural law of man that this is where we would end up in a lot of ways. It's kind of bogus. Yeah. And there's a lot, a lot to be criticized about it. Yeah. We're often doing a lot of stuff that we might not need to be doing.

We just don't know any better. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And the only way you, why the fuck do I do this? I don't even like doing this. Yeah.

And then you're like, do I have to do this? Wait, so not everyone in the world's doing this. Are you aware of this? I don't want to do this anymore. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's true. But I think you don't, you just don't have that awareness. Right. So I think that was a, you just don't have that awareness. Right. So I think that was a weird gift that was given to me, uh, which I had no hand in going back to my thing about luck.

Yeah. I had no hand in that being showed that lesson. It's just, boy. Yeah. It's happened to be born in Canada. Was there ever then things that your parents, because they were immigrants that you had to teach them that you learned as a

kid, culturally all the time, like, like the sleepover. the sleepover yeah like hello it's just a sleepover you know your dad's like what is going on over there and you're like i can't tell you yeah yeah it's like fight club man it's the fucking first rule we can't talk about sleepover can't talk about sleepover what are other things that like your parent because my i had a friend years ago that used to joke about that that his parents you know were from india and he used to say like he would teach them everything and it was like because he would learn stuff in school and bring it home and then his dad would be like what the fuck is that uh well so here's here's one um like being

polite to wait staff oh because they just mean to waiters? Your dad was always... Well, no, no. My mom specifically... Man, I don't even know because I feel like service is a funny thing in those Arab countries. Go on. I don't know how to describe this. Give me the raw detail, baby. So, for example, when you call a waiter, when I call a waiter, I'm like, I'm so sorry. Can I just trouble you for a glass of water? Thank you so much what what is this dance i just did yeah your job is to get me water yeah you don't have to be rude about it but you have to be uh you can just go get a glass of water

what even is rude is cultural ah yeah right like so like whistling at a waiter here is such an insane taboo but there are other places in the world where like like to me i genuinely think i actually used to have a whole rant about this like back after shows it would be at ihop and i'd be on this whole rant but like it should be socially acceptable to whistle at waiters because because it's not it's not demeaning it's demeaning because we say it's demeaning culturally but if you're over there and i'm over here other than shouting hey excuse me like that should be okay it should be because followed with the well but see i'm still yeah you're doing it americanizing it because if you went hey and then you waited but that's only as demeaning as we say it is because culturally here it is though but it's arbitrary is what i'm saying it is but i i tend to be on the side of it is oddly demeaning

because it's like saying i own you right now you got to get me the things i want okay but is that not the social contract that is i'm not it is yeah it is it is but however do not crucify me on the internet as being some like no but you're right a hole to wait staff here I'm just saying the agreement is when I walk in and I sit your job is to serve me whatever I want when I want it totally and I'm not saying of course you don't demean people you don't but I mean I'm here tiptoeing so that's wrong right that part you don't need to do but we do but don't you I know I't. I do just an honest level of respect of like, you know, can I get that please? Thank you.

That's it. I don't ever really go. I did serving for a while. So I bartend. I served. I did everything. So I don't. You don't overcompensate.

Nah, because I know better. Because also then it almost feels more diminutive when someone's like, thank you. Yeah. That's the problem. So then when you just do like a baseline level of human respect that you'd give to somebody on the fucking train or a cabbie or. But what I'm saying is that's not baseline human respect. It's like, it's cultural.

It's cultural baseline. It's our westernized cultural baseline. So like, yes, right. It's the one I like. How about that? I've seen the other ones. I like the one where you go to a flight attendant thank you when they give you the thing but i do get i have seen other people that when they get a thing they don't even look at them and it's like

a lot of cultures that like get deemed rude like for example uh germans or russians or whatever sometimes well germany's got a tough history no but i'm saying because they're not super smiley yeah we're used to like over the toptop smiley customer service and all that, that we think they're rude when they're just direct. Yeah, they're very- They're just like, what would you like? Okay, cool. And they're gone.

They didn't say- Well, who can we blame for this in the Western world? Because you fuckers, meaning Canadians, you're annoyingly nice. You guys make fun of us because canadians are always like oh i've always thought that the states is over the top nice compared to canada oh you guys are way not you guys are way more kiss ass than us i think that's just the time out that's just the perception you're also east coast uh quebec is different doesn't count yeah you're your own yeah that's fair quebecans are more french they're more european than the

rest of Canada. Because you guys are frogs. You're Frenchies. But all I, in America, ever since I first started coming to America, I'm like, they're, oh, it's like, it's, take it down a notch. But I see, that's how we talk about Canada. You get on a plane. Good morning.

How are you? Ba, ba, ba. I'm like, thank you, ba, ba. Have you been to Australia? Yeah, I have. I was just there. So nice, it's annoying. It's different. Down there, they're way too nice.

But what I'm saying- Hey, how you going? And you're like, hi. How you going? It's 7 a.m. Yeah, yeah. I'm not there yet. Wherever I'm going, I'm not there. They're way too nice, dude.

It was to a fault where even I was like, and I like pleasantries. I think it's nice. I get the hey how are you hey man come on this was so much i'd begin to kind of get a little when they would do that in the morning i go you gotta give me some time to who anybody that we were working with on this okay okay in the movie i was like man i can't flight attendant or uh you know well the people we were working with on the movie like morning. Good morning. Just take it. Just give me a second. I'd go, good morning, good morning.

I'd rush through it like, yeah, you gotta leave me alone. I was up at 4.30. I'm tired. Hey, and you know what's funny? When you think about it sometimes, like that interaction is enough for someone to just label you. A dick. Yep.

Forever. Yeah. Think about that. Yeah, it's wild. Forever. And you're like, no, I just was, I just, I'm just tired. I swear, I had a guy tell me, we became friends, but he told me that, oh, one time he disliked me for years because one time he met me at an independent show when I was like higher

on the independent wrestler totem pole than he was. And he said hi to me and I was dismissive. Yeah. But I have obviously zero recollection of this. And it may have been like, I'm lacing my boots. I on in two minutes it's like hey good to meet you like hey and you know you don't even think about these interactions yeah but then somebody is like i takes it home that guy that that sammy yeah he's a real piece of work you know for the next six years that's the story going around you know what that guy went goes and does he goes and buys a louis bag

to fill that fucking mean sammy void and so when he straps on his louis bag next time well and he sees you he goes you said it not me as far as like i say i'm over the judgment but clearly i'm not clearly you're not yeah you're filling something with that but i know what you mean. Aren't we all? But it is cultural. And it is interesting how we deal with those kind of cultural norms that may seem unusual for the opposite culture and usual for the present culture where you're like, no, that guy's so rude. It's like, no, that's just not in his world. That's not what people do. So I've noticed it more.

And I don't think I'm an especially cultured person but maybe i am but like when we go on some of these overseas tours with other wrestlers it was like sometimes mind-boggling to me how like quick they were to dismiss an entire country sometimes over the behavior of like a single place yeah like a single hotel hotel receptionist right switzerland you know like just because the one person's like sir give me a minute because i'm busy and like that's it and like now you've impugned an entire country based on this one interaction so it's like i don't know that stuff cracks me up but we do it naturally we all do that that is that like you know immediately when you go somewhere else and you say uh uh and if someone's like where are you from and you're like canada they're like

oh yeah but then that same person where's your friend from you know the states they go the states yeah right they all everybody does that everyone has this kind of compacted idea that they understand an entire place to be even though that's insane because the united states has fucking 360 million people i was actually saying this today because i was driving around LA today and I love LA. I love almost everywhere actually. And, but I love LA especially. And I was driving and I said, man, can you imagine people come to LA and they're just like, they hate LA or they go to New York and they hate New York.

People do that. Well, and this is the thing that I think is so funny. And this is again, again, been blessed with the ability and privilege of traveling all over the world for many, many years. But people will dismiss an entire city, country, whatever you want, continent, an entire people, an entire culture, an entire civilization, sometimes based on their limited like 48 hour experience in a town right like i came to new york went to times square there were lights everywhere i hated it screw new york don't even talk to me about new york like well so okay yeah that was your experience in a in a you know in a vacuum you can't judge the entire city have you been to the lower east side no you know we went to the m&m store in times square and that city sucks yes i'm like you can't again like you know we go to uh um sweden i remember we went to could i i've been to sweden before i'd went to

wwe and then when wwe went to sweden i was like guys wait till we get to sweden i was like hyping up sweden to all the boys right and then we get to sweden and uh you know we get in late and i don't know you know customs are a little different and maybe the hotel food one lady wouldn't hold the elevator for one of the guys and i remember him just saying like f sweden you're like what because that lady wouldn't hold the elevator. Yeah. The whole country. The whole country can suffer because of her.

Because, because Margaret Clorgans-Clorgans didn't hold the elevator. I think I was going to go back to the States and be like, Sweden, don't go there. Sucks. Yeah. Don't go, man. Sucks. People are rude. They, you know, food's terrible.

Yeah. Like, no, the food's not terrible. Catering that night at the, at the Marriott was terrible. That was terrible. Yes. And I think that's another thing about, I don't know, just, I don't know, decompartmentalizing perhaps or not throwing, not throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Great phrase. Great phrase. Don't do it. Great phrase. Do you know why that phrase was born by the way? I'm afraid of the answer. Well, a family would take baths, right? A full family would take baths, and the baby would typically get the last bath.

Father would get the first bath, and then the wife and then children down the line. So the baby would get the last bath. I feel like it should be opposite. The baby should get the first bath? He's the cleanest. Smallest body, though. Biggest body probably needs all the water. Let's get dad in there first.

Water absorption is what you're saying? No, just like who needs the most water? Baby needs almost the water. Let's get dad in there first. Water absorption is what you're saying? No, just like who needs the most water? Baby needs almost no water. Well, what I'm saying is now the baby is going to get all the filthy water. That's right. So don't throw the baby out with the filthy water. That's where that came from. So it'd be dirty, dirty water from the bodies.

And the joke was, if you dumped out the buckets- You're going to throw the baby out too because he was last in line. Yeah, because you didn't see him in that dirty water. I'm just approaching this from a logical perspective here. I don't think the baby should get all the water. I'm just saying the baby should get first because he's going to be the cleanest. Dad's filthy from working in the coal mine or whatever. Yeah.

Coal mine. Where is this? No, the coal mine. You're right. The first thing I was picturing was like one of those tenement apartments in New York. That's probably what it was. Yeah. There's no coal mines there.

But yeah, you know, anyway, the father's the provider. He was a chimney sweep. He had coal all over him. Yeah. He's filthy. He's a filth bag. He's filthy from manual labor all day. He should be last.

Not last, but I think the baby goes first, then the dad. So the baby gets the cleanest water, hygienic. It's important. And then all the kids and the mom get the dirty water from dad. So you're mixed up. I think dad goes last then. Yours either has to go. And you know, I think I'm so much above these social hierarchies, but here I am playing this game. There you are. Who am I? What a piece of garbage, know, I think I'm so much above these like social hierarchies, but here I am playing

this game. There you are. Who am I? What a piece of garbage, man. I think I'm so great. You know what we learned on this podcast today? You don't like Louis bags. There's a lot you could take away from that.

I know, that's it. Yeah. We delved into that way more than I expected. I appreciate you so much doing this. I'm glad that we came here and we got to fight it out the way that we really wanted to fight it out. Yeah. I've been talking that shit. I'm glad we got to do it, man.

I just really hope the people who tuned in around the two-minute mark and stuck it out. Stuck around. Yeah. Yeah, I hope. I hope they did. Yeah. Good luck at WrestleMania. Thank you.

That's amazing. I'm stoked for you. I appreciate you. We end the episode the same way. You look in that camera right there. That's your camera. And you say one word or one phrase to take us home. This is going to be embedded in history forever.

So one word or one phrase from you to that camera that's going to end the episode whenever you're ready. Do people struggle with this? No. Really? I feel a lot of weight. It's a lot of pressure. But that's what's beautiful about it. So give it what you got and that camera when you're ready. No. Really? I feel a lot of like weight. It's a lot of pressure. It's not, but that's what's beautiful about it.

So give it what you got and that camera when you're ready. You're about to see an ugly side of me here. Not an ugly side, but one of my not so great qualities, which is indecisiveness. Okay, good. I don't know what to do here.

Perfect. I don't know no if you buy a louis vuitton bag i guess it's okay yes in here we pour whisk whisk whisk whisk Whiskey, whiskey. You're that creature in the ginger beard. Sturdy and ginger. Like vampires, the ginger gene is a curse. Gingers are beautiful. You owe me $5 for the whiskey and $75 for the horse. Gingers are hell no. This whiskey is excellent.

Ginger. I like gingers.