Whiskey Ginger with Andrew Santino - Steven Soderbergh

Episode Date: July 28, 2023

On the show this week Santino is excited to sit down with Legendary Director Steven Soderbergh! They sip some of Soderbergh's amazing new sauce SINGANI63 and talk about the joy of making movies, not embarrassing their wives with how they dress, relationship life hacks, and so much more! Check out Steven's Bolivian brandy at https://singani63.com/ #stevensoderbergh #whiskeyginger #andrewsantino #podcast =================================================== SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS RABBIT HOLE $5 OFF with Promo Code: WHISKEY https://rabbitholedistillery.com/drizly SQUARESPACE Get that site up and running now! 10% off your order https://squarespace.com/whiskey AURA FREE 14 DAY TRIAL https://aura.com/whiskey HELLO FRESH Use PROMO CODE: WHISKEY50 For 50% OFF YOUR ORDER & FREE SHIPPING! https://hellofresh.com/whiskey50 ========================================= Follow Andrew Santino: https://www.instagram.com/cheetosantino/ https://twitter.com/CheetoSantino Follow Whiskey Ginger: https://www.instagram.com/whiskeyging... https://twitter.com/whiskeyginger_ Produced and edited by Joe Faria IG: @itsjoefaria Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Enjoy. What up, Whiskey Ginger fans? Welcome back to the show. If it's your first time joining the show, welcome to the show. Good one to join today. Amazing director, Steven Soderbergh is on. Incredible, so talented, and so insightful. Such a good episode, and I was so happy to have him on.

And we took a sip of Singani 63, his special sauce, that beautiful brandy that he brought over for me to share and enjoy. Loved it so much. And also want to update you guys. I'm on the road again in the fall. In the fall, Bobby and I are touring around the country. Go to badfriendspod.com, badfriendspod.com to see all the dates. We're in DC, Chicago, Milwaukee, Madison. We go back to New York we do Pittsburgh, we do outside of Cleveland we are jumping around and adding dates as we go so go to badfriendspod.com

badfriendspod.com enough rambling from me, let's go to the episode in here we pour whisk whisk, whisk, whisk you are that creature in the ginger beard sturdy like vampires, the ginger beard. Sturdy and ginger.

Like vampires, the ginger gene is a curse. Gingers are beautiful. You owe me $5 for the whiskey and $75 for the horse. Gingers are hell no. This whiskey is excellent. Ginger. I like gingers. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Whiskey Dinner. My guest today is one of my favorite people on earth. I say that for all my guests, but I mean it once again.

Today, it is the legendary Steven Soderbergh. Hello, hello, hello. Hi. How are you? I'm good. You are very good, huh? This is quite a setup. You like this, right?

Yeah. It's not bad. It's good. It's not bad. It's my little house on the prairie. This is my little getaway from reality. I like to have a tiny little room to interview people in uh have a little something to sip on and then uh experience them in the privacy of this what feels like it could be somebody's basement yeah right does this feel

like a basement yeah you where'd you grow up you're atlanta guy i was born there yeah but louisiana louisiana okay right on baton rouge baton rouge baby so you brought us a little bit of sauce yes this is pretty incredible uh singani 63 the labeling is beautiful do you want to explain a little bit about this for the people that have zero knowledge of it yeah yes um it's from. Yeah. It's been around about 500 years. Wow. I got hooked when we were making Che and decided to get into the booze business. Don't. Just don't.

Don't. Don't get in the booze business. No. Okay, good. So good plug for yourself. It's just why? Because it's a financial drain financial drain it's really it's hard yeah super competitive it's hard yeah i mean i imagine well the thing that you always hear like of the clunies of the world you know cluny success with casamigos was kind of unprecedented to be honest what those guys were able to do and that's not the norm no you know were able to do. And that's not the norm.

No, no. But of Clooney's not the norm. So what else would happen to a guy who's so beautiful and successful and gorgeous, but some more success? A lot. The rich get richer, baby. Let's taste a little bit of this stuff.

So first of all, Sagani 63, Bolivian made. I've heard you quoted, you don't like to say the dirty B word for some reason. Why don't you like to say brandy? Well, because it confuses people. Yeah. Most people consider, they think of brandy, brown, snifter, library, old guy. True.

This is not that. So, we got our own category as of February. Wow. It took eight years. Wow. A petitioning? How does that get, how does one get that? You go to the government and say, we should have our own designation.

Right. They say no, and then you just keep going back and forth. Right. It's like dating in the 50s. Yeah. They're no a lot but those guys were persistent and now they're my parents and so that that's more accurate yeah brandy is confusing brandy is confusing it smells great though i mean it smells amazing very floral very floral kind of in the way that like um kind of way that that gin has its own distinction this has a very obvious distinction i pour you uh first and you say when just call out when when okay very good and let me pour a

little bit before we sip this and go get into it um i do want to pay my respects, tip my cap, say thank you so much for being here. This is an honor and a privilege. For people that might not be up to speed on whom you are and understand your past, cheers, by the way. Let's cheers. Salud, salud, salud. Or should we say slainte in Ireland? I spilled. I missed my mouth.

Look, look, look, look. I missed my mouth. For people that... That's really, really good. That is really good. It's... I like it. It's very good.

It's surprising. It's really clean. It's super floral, but it doesn't have any... There's no burn whatsoever. No, it just disappears. There's zero burn. Yeah, it's like gone in my mouth.

It's almost cotton candy-ish. Yeah. It candy ish yeah it's fast acting it's fast acting yeah um for people that don't know uh um you are uh quite your resume is is impressive for someone who isn't even aware of the business um on a personal level i think you you've made such wonderful films. I mean, Sex, Lies, and Videotape probably may be the most historic of your works as far as one of your first pieces of cinema, right? Yeah. I mean, you wrote and directed it. It seems quaint now. Right.

Like his problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Seems like very. Yeah yeah back then it was controversial and it was now it looks like jane austen so yeah it's like a hallmark hallmark movie now like that's a small problem but in the back in the day i it was so uh revolutionary to have you know look to talk about the world of relationships and sex and love and uh the the human evolution of um kind of like personal admittance of kinks and habits and blah blah with your partners and it was so you know faux pas whatever the word may be and it is funny to

think it is pretty tepid today like that film today is good as the film itself is yeah categorically it's you would never be like whoa that's racy yeah you know no they're just wild yeah you know now you've got shows like like there's the icon that's a new show that's out where they're like people are just going and that's the new world order is like show it all but i would say that's probably that was my introduction to you um and then through the years of course you've made some of my favorite films and in the oceans world erin brockovich was an incredible movie i mean i could name almost everything that you've you've put together but uh but what i'm interested in um the chat che by the way. But what I'm interested in too is the foray from going from like traffic

to Magic Mike is, it's incredible because it's like such a different kind of cult love that you had. When you had a cult love on Oceans, you know, doing the Oceans world, which for people that, you know, people that know, to me, it's like a return to an era

that I was never privileged to have, right? Like I never got to experience the Rat Pack. Right. But I was obsessed because my dad was obsessed. So for me to kind of get into the oceans world in our generation with those guys made me feel like we got it. Like, oh yeah, we got the thing.

That's our version. And then to transition to something like Magic Mike, which is like a, it's an international smash and it's a different kind of cult like have you seen or your conversations with fans have been so broadly different over the years like you've watched it hit these different peaks and valleys of whom love you're just chasing what interests you. Right. So you never know where that's going to go. Right. Magic Mike was an offhand sort of comment by Channing when we were shooting Haywire. Right.

I said, what are you working on? He said, I got this thing. I said, that's a great idea. Don't lose that. Like, pay attention to that. A year later, he called, said, it's freaking clear. Are you still interested? I said, yeah.

Yeah. You know, it's Saturday night fever. It is Saturday night fever, except way sexier. Well. Way sexier. Can I tell you how many times i've jerked off to magic mike you can seven seven that's that's magic mike one don't get me started about the trilogy no it's it's it's uh it's sexuality uh again it's sexuality new wave. It's new age sexuality where, you know, as you go back in time and you see what was sexy, questionable, and dirty,

it's like it pales in comparison to how everything has slowly progressed. Even Magic Mike, it's tepid compared to stuff that's out now. But the story is what's so fun about it is you can see it from, you know, 20,000 feet. It looks like showgirls guys or something. Yeah. But then you see it and it's not at all. It's it's about relationships, real relationships. It's about work.

I like knowing how people work and make money because we all have to. So it just seemed like a hell yeah yeah why not yeah yeah and he's nice to look at with his shirt off no offense i don't i imagine your body's great too i just don't know if it's channing great that that works yeah i don't know if it's his works yeah his definitely works when you see guys like that, it is funny. Because, again, we're both regular guys, okay? We're regular guys. We try our best.

I'm in the gym. I'm doing what I can. But when I work with guys like, I worked with Efron in a movie a couple months ago. And when you work with guys that are built like machines, it really does remind you that God is not fair and that is okay. That you're like, I have something else he doesn't have not a lot by the way but that thing whatever makes people be able to have that thing god bless good for them yeah i mean i think they should sort of take advantage yeah that. Yeah, why not? I would. Yeah. So, but it's a long game. It is a long game. It's a long game. Yeah.

Tell me, there's a million ways to start with you and I was trying to figure out the best way. But to me, I want to know what was the earliest, because look, as someone who's an extremely acclaimed director, producer, writer,

director being, my assumption is the thing that you kind of grab onto the hardest. You love the most by far. Because I don't know. Sometimes guys write their whole lives and they're like, I've always kind of wanted to direct. Or I meet a lot of different versions where they surprise me. But your style is very unique to you. And what I'm interested in is like the old cliche phrase of, you know, they ask comics, well, who was the first comic to influence you?

But do you remember a film when you were young that had a style that you were like, holy shit? Yeah. Well, it was Jaws. Jaws. Yeah. That's when I started thinking about direct. Like, what does that mean? What is directed by mean? And I started to about direct, like, what does that mean? What is directed by mean?

And I started to find out. Right. And decided I want to do that. Do you think it was the style choices of the shots that really kind of turned you on? Instead of being a, look, Jaws could have been a pretty shit movie for what it's worth. Anything can be. But I guess what I'm trying to get at is from a stylistic point of view when you really see good direct directing um you just notice

that those shots they hum different they stay with you longer and that's when you really start to go wow that's directed really yeah my sense was there was something special and specific about the film yeah and the film making right and turned out there was um yeah but at 12 it's still it just tilted me you know that that was the shift yeah did you see it multiple times in theaters oh yeah yeah that's what i had heard from from my parents generation like, people would go over and over and over to see it and still get shocked and scared. I would go on a Sunday and see all five shows. Holy shit. I'd just sit there.

So this is the day where you could just buy a ticket and sit and no one said anything. Nobody cared. Yeah. Yeah. And is this in Louisiana? Yeah. This is in the South. Baton Rouge.

Are you happy that you didn't end up with any sort of accent from down there or do you wish maybe it would have been uh i didn't think about it um my parents were from the north so i just didn't hear it right you know you didn't catch it no i don't think so it's no you not at all you sound um this is me taking a weird shot. It just, it doesn't sound like, the accent doesn't convey intelligence. And I hate to say that because I'm sure there's a lot of rocket scientists with that good old Baton Rouge accent,

but it is hard to hear. I don't know why. For you. It's tough. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm from Chicago where everybody kind of sounds stupid, but it's lovable stupid. Like it's harmless. yeah and i'm from chicago where everybody kind of sounds stupid but it's lovable stupid like it's harmless you know what i mean it's like in the in the world of in the

john hughes world that was created of chicagoans it's accurate they're lovable idiots i mean they're harmless john candies of the world it's like uh which by the way the other night with my my parents and my in-laws we watched uh uncle buck and I forgot how much I loved that guy. He was so unique. Just like, you know. Something was up with that guy where he... Well, I think it's that joy of performing. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. Like, that some people have, and it's very infectious. Yeah, he's got it. You can tell, like, he loved doing it. Yeah. And he was really good at it.

So that's, I always respond to that. To those kind of people. Was there an actor like that in that world where they were taken early, and you, for a chunk of your career, really wish you were able to work with someone that you never got to work with? Well, I hadn't thought of that. Because a chunk of your career really wish you had were able to work with someone that you never got to work with well i hadn't thought of that because a lot of times and i'll fill your head with something while you think about it you know as a performer there's people

that i always say i'll probably never get to work with them but man it'd be a dream and either the the past or they quit or they're not doing it anymore or they don't really dip into the world as much and they do things once a year so i think about that a lot about like particularly from my childhood too you know i think i tend to let it let the universe sort of coordinate all of that like i have lists of people that i've seen. Like, I just worked with Tim Oliphant. Yeah. I saw him in Go in 1999. That was a long time ago.

And was like, I like that guy. Yeah. Like, I just liked him. So that's a long callback. Yeah. But so I just, I let it kind of of you get who you're supposed to get and so i i tend to be fairly you know chill about that people say no to me all the time yeah and i still go back oh that's awesome that's a fear of a of an actor by the way i mean maybe it's me too but a fear of

like when you say no to something what if they fuck me off forever that does feel like a real thing because the person you cannot deny that there's no such thing as uh you know non-partisan we all have our favorites and we all have our something rubs us away and sometimes you're like i'm not gonna fucking go that way again so it happens i mean has an actor said no to you uh that you thought was a shoe in yet like why would they you couldn't like it shocked you that they turned something down no because it's it's i have such empathy for that job yeah I find it incredible that people do it I it's hard for people I think who don't do it to understand what level of vulnerability we're talking about like it's intense I find it very intense to be around. And, and so I like to create a space where that's kind of acknowledged,

but, um, but we're here to do it. Right. Um, so given that if somebody for reasons, because they just don't see themselves in it or they don't respond to it. Like I, that's cool. You know what I mean? Cause I know what I'm asking. And if it's not a hell yeah, uh, then it should be a no.

Right. You know, and it may be a hell, a hell yeah to the whole thing just to do it. That's fine. You know, they may go, well,

I just want to, I want to see how this works. Right. that's fine. You know, they may go, well, I just want to, I want to see how this works. Right. That's fine. But I don't take it personally in that sense. Sure. It's like,

if you don't feel like you want to come to the party, that's totally fine. Yeah, sometimes people don't want to go to the party. Yeah. But what you just said is pretty powerful if it's not a hell yeah then it should be a no you know and like i've had if you have the luxury to if you have the luxury in that position yes if you have the ability

to say yes and no to things that is kind of a big part of it right is i think people don't understand that like a lot of times we'll get asked you know when i do those um uh what do they call those stupid press things i can't remember the junk yeah yeah yeah but the the one the tv one is the it's the acronym it's like the whatever oh god yeah it's at the langham every year it's like the whatever tca yeah yeah and uh i got every detail of that except for the three letters thank you for saving me. But the TCAs, they will occasionally say something to the effect of like, you know, what made you say yes to this thing?

And you're like, well, it's a combination of it was what was going on right now in my career. And there's not a ton of offers, you know, for any of us really, unless you're at a very high level. But I think the public still assumes people bat away stuff. And you're like, that's a really privileged place. Almost nobody gets that. People do. But, you know, whenever they ask that, I have to laugh.

And I'm always like, it's what was coming my way. was no it's it's it's it's a rare thing in life yeah to have this much control over when you go to work who you work with how you're compensated that is just not how most people go through life No. And I'm very aware of that, which is why I think intention matters. Like why you're there. I think everybody should have a really good reason for being there to do this. So that's what I request. Right. What do you think the worst reason of being there is money yeah what would you assume is like do you now having said that again sometimes

you don't have a choice right you know but sometimes you need if you're if you're fortunate to have a choice i think i feel like like you should – your intention should be really clear. Yeah. Have you thought about what – there was an actor that you never got to work with that you always wish you could have? No. Yeah. I mean, there are, but again, who knows what's coming? Yeah, who knows what's coming?

You know. That's true. who knows what's coming. Yeah, who knows what's coming. You know. That's true. So I'm not a superstitious person, but I wouldn't want to jinx it. You don't have to beat around the bush.

I will work with you. And I know that's what this is getting to. He's always said this for years to the people around him. And yeah, I'm going to do it. You call it and we'll do it. If we want to remake a historical film about a great Irish lad, I'd be the favorite. I said this to my buddy today.

How have I not been cast in anything Irish? Throw me in the background. Like, not a lot. Banshees of Inishere could have been walking through, you know, with a wheel and a stick. Would have loved to do that. Could have been a guy with a sheep herder. Could have done that. I'm just calling out my—I'm trying to manifest my destiny as well.

Well, don't limit yourself. That's right. No, I'm not. I'm not, but it is weird. I mean, you know, there is something about the ginger fascination. Hollywood has always kind of had this thing with redheads where the females are these like,

just brooding, beautiful, fiery, sexy, and the guys are like pimple-faced, dork, loser, or they're the ultimate bully, like Farkas in Christmas Story, like the worst assholes of all time. And only now in the recent years have we become like semi-normalized, you know, that they're like,

yeah, he's just a guy who happens to have a tremendous gene deficiency in his hair and something went awry i thought it was special yeah well it's rare it's very rare so yes that's special rare is special i'm hoping to change the narrative i'm i'm working hard on being uh a different version of the thing that we've always seen how freaked out would people be if you like got a total dye job i mean like if you just went like another yeah or like totally blonde like yeah what would people like just feel that they don't know you yeah well i mean like uh it is become a person part of my personality inherently redheads some reason, might be the only colored hair that adopts this trait.

Like it becomes you. Maybe I would say blonde. When girls go to blonde, some women do say that they they really start to feel different about themselves, about the way they present themselves. You really kind of a redhead has to be a redhead. But that's but that's because of your history like like you grew up being either teased or admired for being the weird goofy you had to do something because you already stood out right you can't stand out and not be a thing like it was almost impossible for me to not be a loud obnoxious goofball it was in the cards uh but i did one time dye my hair black for the show dave that we do um they they dyed it black we were in a dream

sequence scene and uh i took it took me no shit five days to get the black out of my beard it stained my face right so when i had shaved my beard down, they gave me special soap and it just wouldn't come out. And I had a moment of panic where I was like, obviously it's not permanent, but I thought, how long will this last on my face? How many weeks am I going to have like an undertone? Uh, but if I, my girlfriend in college one time asked me to dye my hair, she was like, wouldn't that be fun? And we dyed it like a brownish color. Yeah. I can't believe I did that.

I have no idea why I did that. I think she wanted to sleep with someone else who had brown hair that was 6'1 and was pale. She was changing you. She was changing you. Yeah. Yeah. She didn't want me. Yeah.

It's, yeah. That's kind of why you can't, you can never give a woman perfume. Ah. Because what is that saying? Yeah, you should smell different. Yeah. But you can give a guy perfume because it's saying you should smell better. Yes.

Yeah, a girl, you have to let them be. Yeah, I think it's, I think you've got to be happy with what's, what arrives. Yeah. Because if you, yeah, it's just, it's, what is that conversation? Yeah, how do you start that? I don't, it's almost like, you know, they know at this point in a woman's relationship, if you're married or you've been with someone for a long time when they ask you how do i look in this they know you have to say great but they still need you to do a version of it so you'll go great but i don't like that color as much as the other dress that you have

that i love right so you have to you have to yes and it if yes it's an improv lesson dating is improv lessons for men of like yes but but and you also look so good in the gold well and as they as you know one of the cardinal rules of improv is you don't say no don't say no you don't shut shit down no like you you keep the ball afloat yeah so but i think each of situations, it's good to have an approach, but you just never know what's going to happen or what they're going to, in this specific context, what they're going to be wearing and asking for an opinion on. What happened that week? Yeah. What time of day is it now like are we

early are we running behind like there are a lot of factors that i think you've got to surf to make sure you do the right thing and i think there is a right way to do that i would certainly hope for the same a version of that coming back to me. Yeah. If I said like, dude, is this am I OK? And but I usually avoid it. I just throw it together and go, I'll figure it out. I'll just if I look dumb, I look dumb.

But if she looks good, it's it's a it's a win. It doesn't matter. That's true. Because most men look stupid against their partners anyway. So it's never a win. It doesn't matter. That's true. Because most men look stupid against their partners anyway. So it's never a competition. You just want to look decent enough that your partner's not like, what is that? What the fuck are you wearing?

Yes. Why would you wear that? You would like people to think you're playing at a certain level. Yeah. And that she's not slumming. Yeah, that you belong in the a certain level. Yeah. And that she's not slumming. Yeah, that you belong in the league. Yeah.

Yeah, you belong in it. Yeah, so I think... You're coming off the bench, but you belong in the game. I think there's a, again, an equilibrium there of not looking like you spend too much time thinking about that, but that you don't spend no time.

Right. That's interesting you say this because when I looked at your outfit when you walked in, I thought, here's a professional adult male, and I'm always curious of what directors wear when they direct, right? There's the typical joke that directors always wear, like, you know, super comfy and a hat

they always have like a hat not these shoes i have boots but you wear exactly what you're wearing i dress like this but you have you have you consciously done this or is this just a natural well it's it's because i'm also operating the camera the black is not a pretentious move. This is a real-world practical thing that there's less of a chance I will appear in a reflection of something while I'm operating the camera if I'm wearing black. Right. So I can hide. So that's – but it turns out I just do it all the time. You love black. It's easy.

Yeah, I wear mostly dark. And you can spill shit on it. Like this, look, and I'm already dry. Yeah. Nobody even knew. In here, we pour whiskey. This episode of Whiskey Junior is brought to you by Squarespace. Hey, Squarespace, I've been talking about for a long time.

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how now in this current age do you feel like your selection of projects varied from you know even let's say five or seven years ago has Has there been a shift the way you choose? No, I mean, look, a lot of how something hits you has to do with what you're coming out of. I'm most interested in finding something that feels like it'll annihilate the thing that I just did. You know, I want something, I want to move in a different direction. So that's a big part of it.

But then again, it's not, it's something you can't really control completely. Um, you know, I'll set things up to start, um, the process of seeing if there's a project there. Um, sometimes they come together really quickly and sometimes, you know, they take years. Um, and your, you, your relationship to them changes. And so hence the hell yeah. Like if it's not a hell yeah, it's a no. It's, it can be hard sometimes to, to say no to something you've put a lot of time into other people have put a lot of time into but um you have to it's the the work is is i respect the work too much for for for it not to be a hell yeah right you can't do it as a favor to someone like you've really you know my my is I, everything I've ever made, I would have made for free. And some of them I did. And some of them I lost money because I put money into them. Jesus. So as, as long as that's the key motivation, which is being in love with it on set.

And I think, you know, that's pretty clear. What's the most, if you can, or what's the most over budget you ever were on what film? What film was like, holy shit, we spent way too much much um we went over a little bit on che but not i covered it right nobody got nobody nobody lost more than they were supposed to right um which is the film industry yeah yeah um but i that's always just been a rule with me is that even to the point of, depending on the project, creating within the budget, a reshoot component. Sure. You know, going, we're going to go back. I always go back. There's always something. So let's just budget for it, schedule for it.

But I feel like that's the deal. If we agree on what the thing is and the number, if I hit the number, I get to do what I want. That's the contract. So I take it seriously. I take other people's money seriously. Yeah, because you have to at the end of the day. Well, I think it's respectful. And over time, that's a good way to be.

Sure. Because you want to really reduce the number of reasons that people don't want to work with you. Right. And so many of them, most of them, I would argue, are well within your control, like how you behave. Yeah. And so this is an instance where if you're known as somebody who doesn't give a shit about the budget, well, that goes in the file. Yeah. You know.

It's logged in. Yeah. And it sits right there. Yeah. And they remember it. It's in like all caps. Right, right. Doesn't give a shit about the –

About your money. Oh, your fucking money. Yeah. So. But it is – it's a big part of the business. You know, it's interesting now that years ago, nobody really spoke about pub on a public forum. People weren't really talking about like, there's so much it costs, there's so much it made now, like box office mojo is such like a part of conversation that because the

public is so cued into the inner workings of the business, it's funny that that becomes such a big point of conversation for people that quite frankly, never cared or spoke about it before. Like you never really heard it publicly talked about, about how much money it costs. And you know, I mean,

you'll hear people that aren't in the business. I have friends of mine that are just like, I heard this cost this much to do when they did this. And it's wild that we kind of let that out, which fine. But it was something that was sexy to me when i was young it kept movies a little bit more fantasy based um not knowing so much and i feel like we know so much it's almost stripped away some of that which is maybe

my opinion on marvel and the you you know, the Marvel friend, the Marvel world and the superhero universe is that people are so aware. They're almost a part of that. That's why, um, on a personal level, not to offend and, you know, but I just, I'm not, I don't really dig in the way that I love sto, you know, organic story of life. Slice of life shit is more my, just being a comedian. No, I didn't grow up with that stuff.

I didn't have comic books. Right, me neither. I read a little bit of science fiction, not a lot. But I'm, yeah, I'm just very Newtonian in terms of how the universe works. I feel I mostly live in a world that adheres to Newtonian principles of gravity and shit. So I'm, in a sense, too earthbound to kind of completely surrender that. However, I still am looking for ways to push, you know, my boundaries a little bit.

I've got a thing I'm hoping to do in the fall, depending on how all the entertainment industry stuff plays out. That's a kind of thing that I haven't done before, where I'm sort of dipping my toe into a world in which some of these rules don't apply. It's very specific. And it feels organic because of somebody in my family who was connected to this way of thinking and believing. And then something down the road from that is a little further.

It's a comedy, but it's a very, it's very style heist, um, in a way that I've never attempted before. Like it's the, the central gimmick of it is, is significant. And, um, it's either the movie I was born to make. This is where I kind of put it all together. Cause it's either the movie I was born to make. This is where I kind of put it all together because it's a pretty crazy central idea. And people go, oh, he got there. Or it's not. The polar opposite. Yeah.

But that's fine. I mean, it's not. But that's fine. I mean, it's not, I don't, I've never let what people might think of something determine whether or not I want to do something. Like, I'm prepared for anything. I'm prepared for people to really be upset or angry. really be upset or angry. When I was growing up, that wasn't viewed as a negative. The thing that was the worst was, you know, a shrug, as though it never existed. That's every filmmaker's nightmare.

Like, if people are pissed off, at least they're engaged right you know but for for and it happens to everybody it certainly happens to me if if somebody mentions something or the best is somebody did that come out oh fuck the pain the pain that you that did come oh it did that come out? Oh, shit, I missed that. How was it? I should see it. Yeah, you should see it.

Yeah. That hurts. No, look, there's too many choices for people. Like, there really are like they've done studies that show at a certain point, having too many choices creates more anxiety than it does pleasure in having choices. And the number is around seven. It's pretty low. Yeah. And that makes sense when you're on one of your like apps and apps and you're going through the carousel or like clicking down.

Like how quickly you move into a place of like how the fuck am I going to figure out what I want to watch? Yeah. You know. I'll just go back to watching Family Feud. Yeah. I check out. It's not something you've seen before. Yeah.

I check out. It's like comfort food. It is. Truly. I mean that is what i do often unfortunately that's why i'm behind on so much stuff because i just it's hard for me to get uh to dig in also and here's a direct parallel what perhaps like my anxiety and and depression that i've lived with for years that I've gone through big highs and big lows,

that typically dictates what I'm really jumping into. And I know that's, this is very, it's very obvious, seems obvious and literal, but like the music I listen to changes week to week to week. Like in my car, sometimes I told my wife, I was like, you won't believe this, but I've been listening for the past two weeks to the Grateful Dead radio and I was never a big Dead fan but now I can't stop fucking listening to it because I'm really enjoying it right and it also is it's dictated by what's going on in my life and so I find that happens obviously in my comedy our comedy is usually based stand-up is usually based on life but it's the same thing with projects too,

where I read a thing not too long ago that was given to me an opportunity and I wasn't really interested, even though some of the people were, it was fantastic. I just thought I wasn't gonna do it justice. And that was a thing I was privileged enough to say, no, thank you, but no, thank you. But I guess what I'm lobbing to you is,

do you find that that stays pretty constant that what's going on in your real life in your practical world is is affecting the way you're making these movies or picking your projects or saying no absolutely i mean it should yeah um but some people can really kind of separate i feel like i have friends that can kind of box things away and and transform into the thing they need to and then go back to the thing they need to i found it really hard to not soak in some of that energy so like when you're picking you know has there been a moment in your life of you know either great trauma or great joy that really influenced a thing that made it great, you think?

Well, I just think you're so clearly influenced by the people that you're close to. So my wife and I spent a lot of time together talking and showing each other things. And so that's a huge influence just on where my lens is pointing. You know what I mean? So, and I embrace that as part of how you keep evolving, you know. She's a muse of sorts? Well, I'm just saying.

Yeah. We're in a long-term ongoing conversation about everything. You still talk to your wife. Yeah, a lot. Every day. your wife yeah a lot um every day so it's it's i view that as as a necessary and healthy part of just having your interests you know expand yeah um over time so i i try to I really try to make that process of deciding pretty instinctual and efficient. Like nobody, a producer, very good producer, once said to me, nobody minds a fast no. And it's really true.

Yeah. If that's how you feel, like, if you don't waste somebody's time, they're so thankful. Right. Because nobody wants their time wasted. Yeah. So. Get it over with. And again, sometimes it can be hard because it may be a close friend. And maybe something that under three years ago, it might have been a hell yeah.

And you're just different now. Under three years ago, it might have been a hell yeah. And you're just different now. Or you've got something in front of you that you feel is a little close to that. They couldn't possibly know that because you haven't told anybody about that thing that hasn't happened yet. So I'm just trying to keep it as lean and mean as possible, that process of what I say yes to. And also, I've got various producorial projects that I'm involved with, and I'm not sure why, because I don't like producing,

but I like seeing something happen that might not have happened otherwise yeah that's that's I like that you know that a thing gets made and people go to work because I I helped um I like that but it's just the reality of being a producer which is all the phone calls are bad and it's you're you're you're a doula for the actual people giving birth to this thing so it's it's kind of odd it's not fun to be a doula for the business you know i mean well what i what i desperately hope for is that I've helped get the thing on a rail and call me when you have a cut to show. Right. That's my fantasy is that there's a big gap where they're off doing their thing. And it's working.

Yeah. Yeah. I like that you were honest about it when you're like, I hate producing. It's tough. I like that you were honest about it when you were like, I hate producing. It's tough. Well, I can say that because I've had really good producers my whole career from the very beginning. And that's your – you've got to like doing that job, which is fielding all these people coming at you with problems.

Yeah. So it's – I'm fine doing the creative version of that and standing on set and trying to figure out something. But this part of it, I just, I don't have that gene that makes me like solving those problems. Yeah. Yeah, no, trust me, I see it being inside of it. makes me like solving those problems. Yeah. You know? Yeah, no. Trust me.

I see it being inside of it. And, you know, like when my parents are like, what does a producer do? And it's a really tough thing to explain in a layman way because you're like, well, it's extremely intricate. It's really, it's odd. There's not really like a layout. You're the facilitator.

Right. You know? And the parent. Right. You know and the parent right you know i mean you need you should be i i i look to that i i want somebody to if necessary kind of have their hand on my lower back because i'm about to back into a hole, you know? Um, and so it's a very, I really value it. And that brain trust, you know, it's, they're very frank conversations that go on about what we're doing and how we feel about what we're doing and whether it could be better. And we sort of figure that out and then disseminate that information to everybody else. But the brain trust of which the producers, obviously a really significant part, is an important aspect of my way of working. Yeah.

of my way of working. Yeah. That it's the Pixar credo of be wrong as fast as you can. So you want to be talking to people who you respect, who are kind of stress testing everything to make sure we don't leave here without getting it right you know sometimes you have to go back um on on the show that um we just finished full circle

ed solomon the writer and i and casey silver the producer were it was the kind of thing that that lent itself to a certain amount of recalibrating as you were going. And we were chasing ideas that we thought were better. You know, we saw things, when we saw things that we didn't feel were working, we attacked those. And when we saw stuff that was working better than we hoped, we're like, let's expand that Avenue, like add two lanes to that. Cause that shit's working. So that takes fluidity. It takes security. It takes trust, you know, that, that I'm not going to, that it's not arbitrary that if I say I want to go this way and it's a pretty significant shift that it's because i can i can explain why i can walk you through from this point to the end of the thing this is why i want to go this way um and then you

you start to work on it but that's the fun part right those conversations are i think those are fun yeah because well because it's well, because it's exciting. It's like when you're a teenager and you're building something with friends and it's like the wonderment of the world and of these endless possibilities of how this fort could look when it's over. It is, I mean, you know, we are all children too in this business of like, you know, I think about it all the time. I can't believe they let us do the thing. about it all the time i can't believe they let

us do the thing i always i'm always like i can't believe they let us do the thing you know and that's pretty good it's amazing now are you somebody who's a reuser do you oftentimes work the exact same yeah there's a there's it's not exactly the same every time but there's there is a there's a fairly um like your dp has been the same for a lot or no well that would be me so that's right you're doing everything just to yeah i just use that's right different name you use different versions of yourself yeah yeah um but it you again you've got to find this balance of it's efficient when people know what you like and how you work and how you communicate. But you don't, you want to keep from falling into a place where it becomes predictable.

And there's not as much attention being paid to the things that need close attention because it's just all, it's gotten too familiar. It's gotten a little loose. You know what I mean? You got to kind of find this zone of really good people who know you, but, you know, keep consistently, you know, tracking everything that needs to be tracked and not not feeling like oh i've done this a million times for steven you know i mean like yeah you've got it's you everybody it

still has to be like the first time yeah of course yeah you need to create well that those lines that that are hard to draw sometimes in our business of not professionalism, but it is still a working relationship of like you're a boss and it's your buddy. And it's also like, yeah, but it's still have to be, it's just very intimate. Yeah.

It just, it is, you know, and you become close with people. So it's even harder. Yeah. And, and like I said,

it's, it's your, the thing itself, the thing that you're doing when the cameras are rolling is this highly personal kind of emotional thing um so it's it's working i i would my experience of it is you know a shooting day is like three or four like normal days you know i mean that's that that's how it just feels it's like staring at the sun like it just fit time feels very sort of dense yeah you know what i mean it just you feel like a lot of things happened in that 10 hours you know i mean and

yeah um and those days are exhausting sometimes yeah and it's just it's it's it's you have to i think again be sensitive to the the think about the thing, the thing that we're here to do and not stories about what somebody is up to. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want stories about me. Like, I want you thinking about the thing. I don't want you thinking about me or something I did or something I said like now I've pulled you out I've broken the spell you know so I'm very sensitive to when I feel like the spell is being broken by someone or something and and trying to get us back to that place of focus. And I like to have fun, like, you know, talking. If you're hanging out with Tim Olafan, like, you're laughing. Yeah, you're fucking around.

You know, you're laughing. But you're focused. Like, you know what you're there to do. So it's a funny, it is like a band in a sense and then you have to directorially kind of be in two places at the same time you have to be in a place

of extreme presence where there is no other shot, this is the shot and seeing the whole thing from 30, 000 feet to make sure that shot belongs with all the other shots um and that fits into the larger mosaic of the whole piece so you've got to sort of be in these two places at the same time um but nothing is more fun than a sort of happy unexpected thing that an actor does you know what i mean that's just that happens you know it's just that's that's your i'm trying to

set up a situation where that naturally occurs right Right. You know. The organic. Yeah, just something, you know. And it's, if you've cast properly and you've set it up, it will. Yeah. You know, like it will happen. Of course. You'll get some new stuff that you never would have thought of that really sings, you know. In here, we pour whiskey.

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Use code whiskey 50 for 50% off plus free shipping today. HelloFresh. It's America's number one meal kit. Ginger. I like gingers. It's tough to, it's, it's, it's, it's really hard to, for people to understand, but you said it in a way that's pretty powerful of how you have to be doing multiple things at the same time, but also be in separate places at the same time in your mind of, of balancing that as a director, which is why I don't think I'll ever do it. I don't, I mean, I know I'll never do it. I have no business doing that. I sit in my little stupid brain once I can get in my little space and I like to sit in that and then you know utilize the tricks that

i've learned how to you know get back there quicker because being a comedian is hard yeah we want to fuck off i mean we're bound to fuck off it's like in our dna to see something on set and to go just float yeah yeah and i mean we're we have the worst add i mean that's all we are but it's impressive when every director i've worked with that shocks me with their abilities. It's typically the thing that shocked me the most is how they're able to, you know, spin a few things at once but still be present in the thing. I've never been able to do that. I mean, you know, no capacity up here. It's very limited, the ape brain that I've got left over.

Did your, when you said something about your wife, it struck me. Has your wife ever liked a project and influenced you to do it, even though you were kind of like iffy about it or vice versa, where you were like,

I love this thing. And she's like, I don't know if that's that good. Have you ever had that relationship? She's asked me, she's asked, you know, tell me why you're, why is this a hell yeah? Right. You know. Yeah.

Which is a fair question because she and the cats are impacted by these decisions um right and so it's good it's good practice you know yeah to to have a really solid answer um but you know it's it's it's, I guess the reason that I think about the process of it all is because that time represents my life. Like I've spent a lot of hours doing the job that I love to do, but the, I want the quality of those hours, um, to be high. Yeah. You know, I want to feel like that was worth it and it was worth that. It was worth my time and it was worth everybody's time. I think the thing that will put a crew into a kind of neutral mode is if they roll up on a set and realize, oh, this isn't one of those situations where every shot matters.

Like every shot could be in the show. Every shot. There is no let's just cover ourselves here. The crew can feel the difference. Right. And they're really interested when they feel like, man, every shot is in. Yeah. So it better be good.

Yeah. As opposed to like they've shot way more shit than they can use by a factor of 10. So where are we supposed to place our close attention? You know what I mean? I've done a lot of those, by the way. attention. You know what I mean? Um, I've done a lot of those by the way. Well, look, sometimes sometimes the, the, the sort of structure of the thing itself, it defaults to that. You don't mean if you're on a certain kind of show and you're, you know, you're new to that job and this is a big opportunity and somebody says, Hey, look, we want a lot of options in the editing room,

so you're going to have to grind it. You don't have a lot of freedom to go, yeah, I'm not doing that. Because you are. You will be fired. Yeah, yeah. So it's, again, to have gotten to a place of being able to have that kind of control is really fortunate. And I was fortunate because I didn't know anybody in the entertainment industry. You had no connection.

I was living in a suburban subdivision in Baton Rouge. I had no connections to anything. But I was very self-activated, and I was constantly writing because I knew that was a way in. I was going to have to come in through the independent route, and the way you do that is you write a script and then go convince like some people

to put up some money. Like I'd, it'd been, it had been done many times. Um, so that was going to be my path. And, and I just got lucky that finally, um, I wrote something that somebody read and said i can get i can what do you need like 1.1 million dollars i i know where to get that that's powerful yeah so that's that was one way to do it um and nobody i guess my attitude was, A, it's going to happen for somebody. Somebody is going to break through at some point. It happens all the time.

Yeah. Um, and why shouldn't it be me? Right. Um, and nobody can keep me from writing. Right. That they can't stop. And I just, and I'm not, I don't, I have written, but I don't consider myself a writer as defined by my definition. Like there are real writers and I'm somebody who wrote, um, and has written that's different. But at that point in my career,

I was just, I would, I would write one thing, finish it, start another one in a very different, I was trying out very different genres to see like what, if any, I had a facility for. Um, but I just felt like that's how you get in. You just, you write a script that somebody goes, I like that script. Are you writing right now? write a script that somebody goes i like that script are you writing right now no sort of supervising sure uh a real writer um you know um and i love that i love that part i i love being in the room um when you have a thing that that you're going to figure out in the room as opposed to occasionally you'll have an idea that you'll pitch to a writer and they'll go, I get it. Talk to you in six weeks.

And they just go off and do it. Sometimes you get into we really got to get the dry erase board out and map it. And that's really fun. That is the fun part. Because then you get to bounce. It's just a pure creative space. And I'm a big believer in parameters.

I do think you should have an understanding of like, so what is the scale of this? What are we thinking? Is this a $2 million movie or is this a $22 million movie? Because you make different choices in the writing based on that. And it's really just about, well, what's the best expression of this idea?

Sometimes it's the cheap version. Yeah. You know? Because it's more distilled. Right. And like you said, sometimes too many options is just too much. It's like you've got too much to do. Then you can't really whittle it down to something. Some of the greatest shit has come from nothing. You know what I mean? When you have nothing to do,

when you have nothing to play with, you have to find everything. You have to just create it out of thin air, you know? No, it forces you to think laterally instead of vertically all the time. Right. And I think that's healthy. And like I said, clearly from my comments about budgets, I want to know what the size of the sandbox is. You know, I think that helps me. And then again, it's at the same time, if you're staring something in the face

that doesn't work, then all bets are off. Like it has to be fixed. Yeah. You know, if there, there is no walking away, if you still see things, um, that can be fixed because at a certain point it's pencils down. Yeah.

It's over. And, and I think that's good too. yeah and and i think that's good too um you know otherwise i think you would i i need to treat it like a sport that's that's the best version of it for me right the longer i have to like mull things over the worse they get so i tend to like a rhythm that's pretty quick just because this is my experience of early on in my career when I was trying to figure out what kind of filmmaker I was and where my place might be in the film industry. And I was trying a lot of different kinds of films that were not being seen, but I was learning a lot. not being seen, but I was learning a lot. Um, and so by the time out of sight came about, I felt ready. I felt like, okay, I think I know where, who I want to be in this context. And that movie felt like the perfect opportunity for me to go, I want to be working in the mainstream. I do. I just want to do it a certain way. And the key to that is getting a great script

and like movie stars. What a shock. It's been like that for 120 years. But this was a revelation to me. At least you figured it out. Yeah. But it was a sort of watershed career moment for me because if I fuck this up, I'm in real trouble. Yeah. But I felt like I knew how to do it. Like I went in and George was attached. Jersey Films controlled it.

I met with Scott Frank, the screenwriter, and I said, this is, this is what it is as far as I'm concerned. It's, it's kind of, it's a Hal Ashby movie in terms of its approach to characters and plot, and plot, but it's, it's a little more overtly, uh, flashy than, than Hal Ashby, who was a very sort of almost invisible director. When you watch like his great movies from the seventies, like being there or the last detail, the direction is just invisible. You know what I mean? It's all about the characters and they're beautifully crafted. But he doesn't, he's not trying to impress you with that.

He's trying to impress you with the story and the character. So that was my huge pitch, is like, in terms of its balance of drama and humor, you should be thinking about the last detail. That's how it's going to feel.

And everybody else in town passed on that particular opportunity, and I was literally like the last person standing. Wow. Like I was cold. I was cold. I was out in the cold. And so this was like, this was a big chance. And so this was a big chance.

In your more recent years, have you tried to work with Clooney again? And is there something on the rise again? Yeah, we see each other. We're in regular communication. And I think we both, we've talked about stuff. We, it's just gotta be something like really different. Yeah. You know,

we, we both, we're both excited about that. I, by the idea of like doing something after all this time. Um, but it's gotta be something like really startling. Right.

Something that's just really, he hasn't done before and i haven't directed him doing it before like it's got it's got to be a character that's just like maybe that's the verse of comedy that you talked about um well that's that's that's for me thank you exactly i did think that was for me um you got the right hair for it actually um but and i'll tell you why okay privately okay that's actually true okay um but yeah i mean it's got to be the right thing with you and him yeah yeah yeah um but i think that again you let the you let the universe sort of do its stuff no and i like that perspective i think that's like the way to as i've grown in my career it's something that i've kind of

come to terms with that i i'm like oh yeah you, it's got to just happen the way it is. I mean, I believe in pushing the ball downfield, you know what I mean? But there's progress and then there's like forcing something that's not moving right you know it's like resisting your attempt to move it that's different um very sisyphus in your in the in the yeah which tends to be part of the part your time and, and think about it a little differently because you know, what's required, you know, how sort of immersive it is. Um, and yeah, I mean, I think to your point earlier, your point earlier, my algorithm for getting to a hell yeah absolutely is different than it was 20 years ago. Yeah.

You know, just because I'm a different, I'm in a different place in my life, you know, and things have happened, you know. And so my goal is to continue to find ways to push what I'm capable of and find a spot where it works, but it might not have. You know what I mean? Right. And so, because I have to be scared. Like, there has to be a pocket of fear surrounding some aspect of the thing. Or I feel like I'm not, if I'm not scared by some aspect of it i'm not sure why i'm doing it um it can be on the nick it was the schedule it was just on paper the schedule looked like madness right you know you're really you're gonna do nine pages a day for 73 days really and then how well it determines it means you know you're staging and blocking and

shooting in in a way to reduce any kind of redundancy like talk about this this shot's going to start here go to there it's going to pick up here and then i go to there and and and and that means including scenes where lots of people are talking knowing after you've watched the rehearsal and blocked it you know like i am only going to be on these people for this section and i'm only going to be on these people for this section right i have a tendency i'm told by actors who've experienced this, to sometimes in a situation like that, to not even photograph the person that's talking throughout the whole scene and just shoot reaction shots and over the shoulder and never actually turn around. Hit the person that's on. Yeah. That's that's I've I was told later, you know, that's kind of a thing that you do and everybody's now had it happen to them and we're, we're kind of talking about it.

But also it obviously worked. Well, it can. Yeah. Your job is to use composition, movement, and cutting patterns to create emphasis. You know, like, what is this scene really? What's really going on? Well, my whole thing is, if the sound's off, do I still know what's happening? Just through the way it's staged and cut. It should.

That's my definition of what directing is. Like you should be able to watch it silent and go, I know exactly what's happening in this scene, even though it's all just people talking. So that's, I work back from there often. Like what if there's no audio? How would I lay this out visually and have people get it um and then sometimes you're just we're doing this in one because we have an hour

and it's three pages yeah so we have to do so let's work from that like how do we let's get this thing knowing that can i get it on its feet so that it's moving? Right. And you don't even notice that it's one shot because I've hidden all the moves in your guy's movement. You know, that's fun. It can be fun. Yeah. My buddy Michael Angarano did that show, Nick, with you

and had an enjoyable time. It's so funny because when he... He's great, and he's a good filmmaker he's he's he's phenomenal he's such a bright talented kid i wouldn't say bright i don't want to give him smart because he's a close friend so i wouldn't say that i don't well you know him i don't really know him so he may be he's an actor yeah he's peacocking a little bit he may pretend it's all actors pretend at the end of the day most actors are um well when did you when tell me your uh if i can turn the table yeah so give me your moment of understanding that performing is like i want to do that i think uh like as a as like i want to pursue this seriously

you could have been six for all i know well uh my dad just joked about it when my when my stepdad married my mom um i was uh actually five or six or well like that. And I had learned the song One Singular Sensation. And I kept saying to my dad, can I sing? Because I would love whenever there was a- Where did you hear this? The song? Yeah. Where did you hear it the first time?

It was like a daycare program or something like that was teaching us songs my mom was a full i was a single sing i had a single raised by single mother for a while and then i'd go to these sitters or daycare programs or all this stuff and then but i kind of but it wasn't a touring company of a chorus line no no no but i remember seeing bands or musicians and being like infatuated, but not having the drive to want to play music. But I just thought getting up in front of people was so cool for some reason. And at my parents' wedding, I begged them to let me sing. And I'm not, I couldn't sing. But you just wanted to do it.

But I wanted to tell, I told a few jokes. I told two jokes and then i sung part of it uh and by the way the jokes killed i crushed uh but i do remember that feeling of people being impressed that you had the ability to kind of control a room i thought that was wild and um then i said no that's that's a superpower it just it just felt it was something i couldn't believe happened and then as life had gone on i you know i was obsessed with comedy when i was young and i kind of lied to myself and everybody in my family because i never really admitted that i was going to do it i really did lie saying i was going to go and i out of college

maybe get a job and i had done a little bit of theater in school and I continually lied to myself because I didn't want to let myself down so but honestly since I was a kid I was obsessed with I used to and the comedy route was Carson I used to watch Carson a lot when I was when I was a little little kid

I was obsessed with the format I thought that was so cool to talk to people in the joke and and that there were these winks at the audience and that was probably my my um initial uh idea of the world of comedy and then as i grew i saw what what expanded eddie murphy changed the way i saw everything in the fucking world i was like holy shit you can make fun of like dark weird personal stuff and everybody likes it and um but that was but for the acting side um jim carrey was uh like my hero as a kid and i wanted to be that so bad i was like he was it to me that was that was that was genuinely the he was just so like mesmerizing everything he did was obsessed i was obsessed

as a kid he made half of the country talk out of their buttholes you know what i mean it was what a great trick he pulled but it worked it worked brilliantly and so anyway that's that was kind of how i started to fall in love with comedy and performing and acting was later in my life because i or later in my career because i just didn't think i could do it i never bought myself i was like i'm not gonna right i'm not gonna be able to do it but it's been okay and i'm gonna i want to do it now forever. I mean, I think as I get older, I'm more attracted to it than I've ever been. I've had great experiences casting comedians in dramatic roles.

It's, it's, I've found that the energy they bring is, it just, it, it's kind of slightly off in a good way. Yeah. But on the informant, you know, everybody, almost, almost everybody around Matt in the informant is a comedian. Yeah. And they were great. And we just, we just used Jim Gaffaffigan in full circle i love gaffigan and he's so good like he's this is a real like traumatic role and he is so good like talk about something out of a 70s movie you know like he's he's great and was just a total you know doll to to yeah deal with like he's a total pro he's very funny um but is completely prepared and fearless you know just that's what you want is is is people

who just aren't protecting anything well the good thing about comics in film and television to me that gives me comfort is typically not always but we don't really have to look cool i think a lot of comics you know you want to look presentable as an adult at some point in your career but the comedian's first goal is never to like you know look hot or right we would rather steal the scene from a thing that we've said or did we like when i know i shot something well uh and i know i did like you know curb was a big deal for me when i shot with larry and making him laugh i could have been naked and people could have been laughing at my my little little tiny penis. But the fact that he was laughing, it didn't, nothing mattered. Yeah. And that's what you say. That fearlessness of like, I don't give a shit what anybody thinks

as long as people that I'm making the product with are like, this is fucking good. Yeah. It just feels so, you feel, I mean, i mean limitless you're like i can do fucking anything because we're making this thing churn and it's and it's humming and happening there's no better to me that's that's where the pinnacle of people that don't understand why certain comics want to act it's like because it's it's the most to me it's like the it's like injected with steroids it's comedy on its highest level because you get to bounce with other humans that are good at it so i've that's always been you know my my world of it but i'm what i'm interested in when you said that you're working

on something more in the comedy space is because getting more into that this part of your career i think that's it's so cool because it's like you said, it's not what you've always been doing. And that's, to me, is when you make the best stuff. Knock on wood, I would hope. Yeah, I guess we're going to find out. We're going to find out. But it's, like I said, it's, I'm excited about it. I'm scared about it.

So I feel ready. But we're in such a weird time in terms of where do movies belong? Yeah, where do they belong? And what is a movie? Yeah. So I'm not as despairing as, as some people. I guess part of it is because it seems inevitable that these things, you know, evolve over time, not always in ways that, that make you happy, but you've just got to keep figuring it out,

you know, and my goal is to be the cockroach of the entertainment industry and that there's like no version of it that i can't find uh you know a kitchen with some shit in the cupboard so you'll find your way yeah like that's i'm i'm like well how do we work with this um but i i always feel and there are some similarities to what was happening with the studios in the 60s that led to this kind of American new wave of movies from 66 to the late 70s you can kind of feel

some of the same echoes of what was happening there just before a new thing kind of burst into the culture and took everything in a different direction now things have changed you know uh the way we watch stuff has changed and what we watch has changed but i still i still and believe that there's somebody finishing something right now or working on something right now that six months from now could completely change the narrative. Yeah. And take the whole business like in a different direction.

Like I want to believe that that's possible. And I think it is possible. that that's possible and i think it is possible so um the the the goal i think is is to as you hope that that's the case is to try and be a kind of contributing party to that yeah you know like well what could i be making that would potentially if if it works, send a message like, oh shit, stuff like this works now. That's good to know because it opens up a little space here that wasn't open beforehand. I mean, Sex Lies was a real beneficiary of some of fortuitous timing it it showed up at the end of a decade in which the studios really took back control of the movies and it wasn't a great decade for american cinema except for a handful of independent filmmakers as far as studio movies went, the 80s was like pretty corporate. Yeah. And people were just ready

to start seeing things again that felt handcrafted and had a voice. Right. And a signature. Like they just, they wouldn't, I don't even think

they would have articulated this to you. It's just when they started seeing it, they went, that feels better. I like that. And so that's what happened is we and some other people just kind of rolled up at a time where people were ready to like see something that felt human. I think we're ready now. I think there's a new change coming.

Well, that's what I'm saying. I think there's a new change coming. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's like, who's to say that, that people are like, I want to, I want to move back to a place that's more grounded. I hope. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, look, a lot of that audience, um, migrated to television because the kind of

things they like, look, traffic in the air today as movies don't work. Yeah, well, it's in a theater. Not in a theater. They do not perform the way they performed.

It'd be great on HBO or something like that. that's where, that's, well, exactly. I mean, I did

three, four, three and a half because Magic Mike Warner's decided after they saw it to put it into theater even though it was made for the platform but let them all talk no sudden move and Kimmy are

mid-level movies for grown-ups that I sort of made my bread and butter on decades ago yeah that's where you have to go to make those movies now because theatrically when you add the marketing costs in like it just doesn't work yeah the math doesn't work so you know but we're we're for the first time confronting a version of the business in which we don't have all the information that we're used to having right it's the streaming world's kind of a black box. And they know what's happening, but they won't tell us. Let us know.

Will you just let us know, streaming world? Either way, I am excited to see what's next. Yeah, me too. And I want to say thank you graciously for coming on the show. I appreciate you. I am a fan. I hope that we can work together someday. If we can't, I will hold it against you.

I've done that for many years with a lot of people. I have grudges now. Okay. If people— All right, so you're coming in hot. Yeah. If people interested in the world want to taste something delicious, I hope

they go grab a bottle of Singani 63. It's actually, it's very, very good. Um, it's available most places, I imagine,

that you can pick up alcohol. Um, and please do it so, uh, Steven can make more movies because otherwise, if this thing tanks, we're in deep shit.

It's all going away. Yeah, it's all going away. Um, we end the episode the same way. You end the episode with one word or one phrase. Now, it used to be a word, and a lot of people say, I don't know one word.

So they would just say a phrase or something that means something to them. But you have to look in that camera right there and say one word or one phrase when you're ready. panic has never solved anything in the history of the world in here we pour whisk you're that creature in the ginger beard sturdy Sturdy and ginger. Like vampires, the ginger gene is a curse. Gingers are beautiful. You owe me $5 for the whiskey and $75 for the horse. Gingers are hell no.

This whiskey is excellent. Ginger. I like gingers.