Who Killed Jennifer Judd? - Ep.4: Rumors and Narratives

Episode Date: August 6, 2025

Sarah meets Misty's brother Colton for an intense conversation about how his sister’s disappearance in 1992 shaped the rest of his mother Diana's life and his own childhood. As Sarah examines the original police investigation, she learns of shocking failures and missed opportunities. When Sarah digs deeper into the statements of Trina, Misty's best friend who went to the fair with her, she discovers troubling inconsistencies in Trina’s story, which raise Sarah’s suspicions around a new suspect. Then Sarah receives a surprising email: a key witness finally agrees to talk after decades of silence. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What kind of secrets are your neighbors keeping? Who are they, really? Nightmare Next Door, the official podcast based on the hit true crime show from ID, exposes real-life murders that sent shockwaves through small-town America. You'll hear direct audio from the TV series with interviews from witnesses and investigators and finally find out what's going on behind closed doors. Listen to Nightmare Next Door on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Previously, on who took Misty Copsie?

Western Washington was a veritable killing field for young women. I don't think people can even wrap their brains around how many serial rapists and, you know, predators were out running around. It's insane. The problem is they had very little to go on. Some room would come up, they'd chase it down. But it was like, it's like swinging at ghosts, that's the problem. They looked at Diana and they said, okay, well, you're a trailer park mom, you're not a good parent,

and your kid probably ran away because that's what happens most of the time. And they didn't look and they didn't check. And they made some assumptions about mom that were just bogus. And they didn't go down the really obvious roads that they should have gone down right away. You know, for years, my mom felt like people thought she was crazy. I mean, every time she would even talk to the Puyall Police Department, it was like, you guys think I'm crazy and I'm not crazy. From ID and ARC Media, I'm Sarah Kalin,

and this is who took Misty Copsie. I want to gather new information before I sit down with Misty Copsie's brother, Colton Smith. After about a week in Washington, I decide it's time. Even then, it's hard to find. a time to meet for a few reasons. First, Colton works third shift, meaning overnight. Having worked nights as a cop, I really sympathize with how tough that schedule is.

Plus, Colton's a little nervous about meeting in person. Being the one carrying the torch for Misty since their mother Diana's death in 2020, it's a role he's still getting comfortable with. It's a slightly unusual one too because Colton was born after Misty's. disappeared. He never got the chance to know his sister personally. Still, I'm fairly certain he'll be able to fill in a few gaps in what I know so far and help me develop a clearer picture

of his mom, the sister he never got to meet, and the investigation into her disappearance. In the time I've been looking at this case, I have only had two-dimensional understandings of both Misty and Diana. Misty was the perfect. child and Diana was the distraught angry mother. But people are never that simple. Even if both of these portraits were completely true, there's still going to be a lot more in the nuance that can help me see their world as it was.

And that is critical if there's going to be any chance of solving Misty's disappearance. We met at a burger spot in Tacoma, and as soon as he walks in, I see the family resemblance. Colton's an intimidating figure at first. He's more than six foot four, but his smile is shy and sweet with a calm demeanor. Colton tells me he and his mom, Diana, were close.

It was just me and her against the world. For a long time, he didn't know he'd ever had a sister. Looking back, though, there were hints. My mom would tell me, like, I wish I could give you a sibling. I wish you had a sibling. I know you're an only child, and that's rough sometimes. Like, I wish you had a sibling. I asked Colton when he learned from Diana about what had happened to Misty.

I would be in bed, and my bed was always close to the living room, and I remember she would talk to her friends about it. Like, hey, this is what's going on with my daughter's case, and I wasn't asleep like she thought I was. So eventually I just kind of pieced it together, and the more I heard her talk about it, the more I was like, this is a real thing. Like, this is my family that we're talking about,

not just like a TV story or something like that. this is real. Once Colton was old enough, Diana told him the full story. They went to events for families with missing children. He remembers Diana putting on a car wash to raise money for Misty's case and says that Diana had a picture photoshopped of the three of them, Diana, Colton and Misty, which she framed on the wall. Colton still has it on his mantle. The fact that Diana framed this imagined reality in which her family was whole and she got to live with her two children. It kind of breaks my heart. As hard as she worked to keep Misty's memory alive and to try to solve what happened,

Colton says it never felt like he had to compete for her love or anything of the sort. My mom never made me feel like she took Misty's case as priority over me. She always made me feel equally as loved as a parent should. anything I did, anything I had interest in, even if it was just one of those things that you could tell as a kid was just a phase. My mom was like, if that's what you want to do, you go ahead and do it. And I believe you can do it. That was my mom.

I personally feel that that's what she was put on earth to do, was to be a mom. And I think that's, she just, I wanted to exemplify what it meant to be a good mom. Colton was only 21 years old when his mom died. At first, he didn't realize he'd sort of become the last hope of carrying on his mom's lifelong mission to figure out what happened to Misty. Then one day, it just kind of hit him.

If I don't do it, who's going to do it? I just can't, I owe it to my mom to make sure that at least I try to bring her home. Because, you know, my mom had always said, like, after I pass away, the Piaopolis is going to get what they want, and that'll be it. Colton felt he owed it to Misty and Diana

to make sure this didn't happen. My mom had always said, closer when she passed away, at this point, I don't care if somebody is charged. I don't care if they're held responsible. I just want my daughter home. And that's how I feel to. There's pretty much no idea in my mind that she's still alive out there somewhere. It doesn't add out to me. But, yeah, if we could bring her home and lay her to rest, that would mean the absolute world to me.

I want to do this for Diana and for Colton. I could have had that older sibling to help guide me through things to help me learn. and things. And I didn't have that. And it was really frustrating. On top of the fact that you see how it affects your mother, and it's just like, this is not right. How could this happen? I can only imagine how painful it must have been for him and how his hurt intensified as he started to understand the way the police treated his mom from the moment Misty disappeared. I've started to gather a better understanding myself, and I have a list of questions for him. There's always been this thinly veiled accusation that Misty really might have run away

because home was unbearable, because Diana drank too much, because they fought all the time, that sort of thing. It seems to have originated with the police statements, statements then printed or broadcast by the news media. The police seemed to write Diana off as too difficult to deal with, as though that's why they fumbled the ball so badly. I asked Colton, how much of this rings true. I know that she had always had a little bit of depression and anxiety, even as a kid, but I just can only imagine how much that intensified after this happened. It just ruined her.

As we all do, she had her demons and battles. He confirms that Diana struggled with alcohol. You know, occasionally, like anybody who was in this situation, my mom would drink occasionally, and it probably didn't numb the pain, obviously. This was something Diana struggled with even before Misty's discergated. appearance, not saying this caused her to drink, but it may have intensified after losing Misty. Reporter Sean Robinson told me that Diana sometimes called him late at night, quote, half in the bag. She'd do the same thing with the police, calling to rage at them for doing nothing about her missing girl.

Now, the fact that a victim or a victim's family member drinks alcohol, even in excess, is no excuse to treat their case any different. But to be extremely clear, the police's in action preceded any angry, alcohol-fueled calls Diana may have made. The thing is this. Even if Diana had been awful straight out of the gate, that should have no bearing on how the police treat Misty. Misty was a whole separate person, and by any objective view, she was the victim of a crime. period. To essentially punish her in order to punish Diana for what amounts to, at the very worst, bad manners, is beyond the pale.

I'm sure they didn't see it that way, but I've seen it up close before. Incidents in which police used someone's emotions, even a victim's emotions, as an excuse to justify dismissing their concerns. And in my experience, those someone's were, Always women. Always.

I tell Colton that the way the police initially mishandled Misty's case is some of the worst police work I have ever heard about in my entire career. We talked about this in our first phone call, but I have a deeper understanding now, thanks to Sean and Colton. So allow me to share. It starts the moment Diana gets home from her overnight shift on the morning of September 18, 1992, and finds the house empty.

As Diana would later tell Colton, she knew right away that something was awry. He can still hear her saying it. I just knew. I just knew something was wrong. I could just feel it. It wasn't right. There was just something not right. Diana takes the logical first step. She calls 911.

The dispatcher tells her it sounds like a runaway and she has to wait 30 days. This is total BS, and luckily when Diana calls the Pierce County Sheriff's Office later that day, this gets corrected. The Sheriff's Office takes a report, but that's about it. They assign a deputy to the case. He speaks to Misty's friends and tells them to, quote, just call if she calls. Six days later, with no sign of Misty, Diana files a report with Puyallup PD. The Puyallop PD slowly sees.

start making moves, assigning Detective Herm Carver to the case. Twelve days after Misty disappears, Carver takes the first meaningful step. He goes to Misty's school with Diana to talk to some of Misty's classmates. Specifically, they talk to two girls in Misty's class. A couple girls that didn't even know Misty. These were not close friends, just barely acquaintances. One of the girls claims to have seen Misty at a couple of girls. claims to have seen Misty at a concert a few days after Misty's disappearance.

The other says she'd gotten a call from someone she thinks was Misty the week before, also after Misty's disappearance. But when Diana pressed for any details to corroborate these stories, the girls had nothing. My mom is fighting to get these answers out of these girls. Like, how do you know? Are you sure about this? Like, they couldn't get a clear answer out of these two girls and they leave. These stories scream of what I call main character energy.

A common phenomenon in a case like this, especially when the witnesses you are talking to are kids or teens. People want to feel helpful and important and insert themselves into a case without any basis. Sometimes it comes from a genuine place. Other times not. It's hard to say here. Either way, these are eight.

eighth-grade kids we're talking about. So the point is not about whether these girls should have said what they said. The point is that the detective in the room should have corroborated these stories. Unfortunately, he doesn't. From what I've reviewed and what was previously reported, it doesn't appear he spoke to a single teacher or faculty member either. Instead, he tells Diana, case closed. And my mom is told, well, we're taking her off NCIC now

because it's very clear that she's alive and well. These two girls wouldn't just say that. He removes Misty from the national database where missing persons are listed. To add insult to injury, the detective goes on a local radio show the next day and basically tells the public the same thing. He announces that Misty is, quote, alive and well,

and adds that Diana knows where her daughter is. He went on a radio show even and said that, you know, hey, don't even look for Misty. She knows where she's at. This is just a misunderstanding. And she's fine. She knows where she's at. By telling the media that she's been located, they've turned off that switch in the public's mind that might have led people to come forward with more tips in those critical first hours and days.

According to reporter Sean Robinson's article, this is seemingly. the extent of the police investigation for the next two months. At some point, there's a reported sighting of Misty at a truck stop about two and a half hours from Puyallam. Sean found this in the case files when the city granted him access. He learned that police didn't investigate this tip. Diana goes to the truck stop and asks if anyone recognizes Misty, but it leads nowhere.

Then a new case catches everyone's attention. Four months after Misty's disappearance, a man named Robert Leslie Hickey snatches a 15-year-old girl off the main street in Puyallup near the fairgrounds. He rapes her, then throws her down a ravine, presuming her to be dead. But she survives.

The police catch him. The location and the age of the girl would seem like reasons to ask this perpetrator about Misty. But as far as we know, no one questions him about Misty and whether he might have been involved. Could he have attacked more than once? Could he be a serial predator?

The brutality of his attack indicates he is. Most first-time rapists do not murder. That is usually an escalation. Or they accidentally kill their victim and their behavior escalates thereafter. The night that he abducted and raped the 15-year-old girl, Robert Hickey reportedly told her that he had to push her off the cliff

because, quote, you'll tell like the rest of them. Even if that was conjecture or grandstanding, he later proved himself to be a serial predator. In 2001, he attacked a woman in her mid-20s in a very similar fashion, even throwing her down a steep hill. She escaped, and he went back to prison.

Back in 1993, less than two weeks after Robert Hickey is caught, police get, and fail to pursue, yet another possible lead. Diana goes on a local TV show to talk about Misty's case. A woman named Tammy calls in saying she saw a girl

matching Misty's description walking past a 7-Eleven toward the highway around 10 p.m. that night. A detective is part of the show. No one from law enforcement speaks with the woman after the show.

A few weeks after that is when they find the jeans on the side of Highway 410. Only then do police begin to actually interview potential witnesses and suspects. They are starting at square one, five months after Misty disappeared. Five months. And they're still not even pursuing every possible lead. A tip is called into the News Tribune in March. 1993, Sean Robinson describes it years later. In short, a man calls a reporter at the Tribune and says he saw Misty get into a car, a yellow Chrysler Cordoba with a man. He wasn't sure

exactly when he saw this, but he believed it was around the time Misty disappeared. The caller gives the man's name and says this man works at a local auto detailing shop. The tipster is a customer at the shop, so he had recognized the man. The tipster says he waited until March to call this in because he didn't know anything about the case until recently. He had left for Alaska sometime after the fair, and upon returning from Alaska, he heard about Misty's case. He doesn't give his name or contact info. According to Sean, the tipster says he's, quote, 98% certain of what he had seen. the reporter who spoke with the tipster calls the King County Sheriff's Office. A detective writes up a report.

He writes, quote, The informant said that when the girl he believes was Misty approached the Cordoba, she leaned into talk, but then got a startled look, looked around, and then got in the car. Sean reported that King County detectives looked into the background of the man named by the tipster. He was a 33-year-old local man with a concerning record. In 1990, two years before Misty disappeared, the man was convicted of sexually assaulting a 13-year-old relative. The King County Sheriff's Office passed the tip on to Puyallup Police.

As far as I can tell, none of the original investigators contacted or attempted to speak with the man in question. Sean left the man's name out of his story, because the man has never been linked to Misty's disappearance in any official capacity. Of course, there's one person who hasn't been sitting idly by throughout all this time. Diana.

Beginning the day after the fair, Diana goes into high gear. Colton retraces Diana steps for me in more detail than I'd previously known. Among her first phone calls is one to the 18-year-old friend who Misty, had said she could call for a ride. Ruben Schmidt. She called Ruben, said, hey, my daughter told me you were the last person.

She was going to contact to get a ride. I told her no, but is there any chance that she called you? And he says, yeah, she called me, but I didn't have gas, so I didn't go get her. Next, Diana tries Trina's house. No answer. She leaves a message on the machine. That's when she goes, okay, I'm going to go to Trina's. I'm going to knock on the door.

Trina is at school, so Diana leaves a note after. asking her to call as soon as she gets home. Trina eventually made it home from school, called. My mom asked her, where is my daughter? Do you know where my daughter is? And she says, I don't know. Diana calls Ruben again. This time, Ruben is out, but someone else answers,

his roommate, James Tinsley. Ruben's roommate who claims that he did, in fact, go pick Misty up that night with his uncle. Diana calls again later that day. Ruben picks up. He clarifies, Yes, I did go out, but not to pick up Misty. He left to go.

He claims to a party. Rubin's story keeps changing. Definitely fishy. But hang on a sec. What about this uncle? I've seen mention of an uncle in Sean Robinson's reporting. It was a vague reference, and according to records I've found, Ruben has several uncles.

Did she specify which? which uncle she believed he had left with. So she never specified that was a big source of contention in her own mind for a long time. She couldn't figure that out. She didn't know a name. She didn't know who it was. This could be a significant piece of the puzzle. If I can narrow down which uncle from the rather sizable pool of them,

it could go a long way towards excluding Rubin or further implication. Either way, it would force some movement. Reporter Sean Robinson told me that through his conversations with Diana, Diana would change her mind about who she felt was responsible for Misty's disappearance. But all this conflicting info from Rubin and the roommate made Diana very suspicious of Rubin. Colton shares notes that Diana wrote in a notebook. She says Rubin stopped by. her house several times in the days after Misty disappeared.

He was always with friends, and he never asked about Misty. He only asked if the cops knew anything yet. Then a few months after Misty disappeared, Diana actually ran into Rubin at a corner store and confronted him. Like, where is my daughter? I know you know where my daughter is. Where is my daughter? And she said that he just panicked, said, I don't know, man, I don't know, I don't know.

and he just booked it out of that corner store. And he ran out to an orange pickup truck. There was an older man inside the truck that was driving. Ruben explained who my mom was, and I guess his eyes just widened, and they just peeled out of there. So she runs into Ruben by chance, but when she tries to talk to him, he completely panics.

He runs out of the place. Has a conversation animated enough to be obvious from where Diana is in the store, with an older guy who, it appears, knows at least something about what Rubin is saying. They take off in a hurry in an orange pickup truck. This feels like yet another piece the detective should have at least run down. Was the man in the orange pickup truck Rubin's uncle? If so, which one?

Is this who Rubin supposedly left with that night, according to what Rubin's roommate told Diana? What was so important that when Diana saw Rubin at the store, he's so quickly left with this man? What were they talking about? What kind of secrets are your neighbors keeping? Who are they, really? Nightmare Next Door, the official podcast based on the hit true crime show from ID,

exposes real-life murders that sent shockwaves through small-town America. You'll hear direct audio from the TV series with interviews from witnesses and investigators and finally find out what's going on behind closed doors. Listen to Nightmare Next Door on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. all of her work in a giant binder. Colton has it with him. My producer and I start looking through. So these are mostly newspaper articles that she clipped.

It's brimming over with documents, photos, newspaper articles, all related to Misty. Is that a drawing of Misty's? Oh my God. May 1981. So she would be like three? Yeah. And this is a missing poster? This is one of the originals.

Were you at the Puyallet Fair on Thursday? Oh, so this must have been, like, right after. And do you think that's Misty's school photo from that year? Yeah, I believe that's one of the last photos she had taken. We're looking at a black and white printed page, one of the original missing posters that Diana had printed, made within hours of Misty disappearing. At the top, it reads,

Were you at the Puyallup Fair on Thursday? Below that, Misty's school photo ended, description of Misty. Blonde hair, blue-green eyes, five-foot-nine inches. At the very bottom of the page, it reads, last seen Puyallup Fairgrounds, wearing baggy, light-blue jeans,

navy blue sweatshirt, brown-suade shoes. Baggy, light-blue jeans. It's really interesting to, and a little bit chilling, to see she's describing exactly the jeans that would be found. Yep.

exactly this poster is printed immediately after misty's disappearance months before the jeans are found this is another indication that diana accurately remembered exactly what misty was wearing the night of the fair not some wishful thinking or false memory created out of desperation months later when they found the jeans socks and underwear crumpled up on highway 410 address to Diana. Dear Unsolved Mysteries viewer, please accept our apologies for the delay in responding to your story submission.

Here at Unsolved Mysteries, we do our best to carefully review each story that our viewers submit through the mail to our offices. Unfortunately, we will be unable to pursue your story as requested. There are several letters like this, correspondence between Diana and media organizations,

trying to get attention for Misty's case. Unsolved mysteries, America's Most Wanted. It's clear Diana was trying desperately to get someone to pay attention. This idea that she's, you know, sitting in an apartment drinking herself to death and yelling at cops is just... It's just fucking insane.

Pardon my language. But I get worked up about this. There has been a lot of media around this case over the years, in which the police repeatedly disparaged Diana. Sean Robinson's reporting was the only coverage I've seen that was consistently, truly empathetic about Diana's experience in all this.

There are a number of reasons, both in the case investigation and in how we tell the story here, that we keep coming back to Sean's work. It was thorough and it was humane. looking through the notebook my producer turns to a photo of a young girl not Misty

a girl with dark brown hair a mischievous grin on her face is that Trina Trina Misty's best friend with whom she went to the fair the night she disappeared the one who said that she left Misty

waiting for a bus while Trina walked all the way home It comes out later that that's actually not what happened. The actual story is Michael Reiner came and picked her up and took her home. Trina added this detail in her second statement to police. So that means the only two people whose stories are crucial to understand have both changed those stories? We have to talk to Trina.

Have to. This all has to be cleared up and nailed down once and for all. I asked Colton if he's ever tried to contact Trina. It doesn't seem that she wants to talk to me. She's not, I think she's trying to move along. Did your mom have the sense that Trina's reluctance to speak was rooted in hiding something or in, like, feeling a sense of responsibility and not being able to deal with it well?

I don't know specifically what it was, but I do know that my mom would say from time to time she knows more than what she's telling us. I know she knows more than what she's saying. Colton says he's reached out to her via Facebook and she didn't respond to him. She cooperated with the cops, but other than a short quote given to a newspaper in December 1992,

she's never spoken to the media. Sean Robinson tried to speak with her. She twice agreed to an interview but then backed out. To be honest, I'm highly doubtful that she'll talk to us. But I'm determined to try. After our meeting, Colton sends me Trina's Facebook profile. My producer, Tessa, and I pull it up. Her name has changed.

There she is, Trina. Oh, wow. I type her new name into a database I use to find people. I think this is her with actually a different last name, but yeah, yeah, it's her. Trina. There are a few phone numbers, an email address, and an address about 50 miles north. I consider calling or emailing. Instead, I decide to just go knock on her door.

I don't want to ambush her, but I have so little time on the ground here. You never know if people will even get an email or a voicemail, and so few people answer the phone from strange numbers anymore. I won't push her. If she asks me to go, I'll go. But I think in-person is the best option right now. My producer Tessa and I pack up our gear and get in the car. An hour and a half later, we pull off the highway and drive a few blocks to her street. As we're approaching her house,

car goes by us. I think she just drove by us. Are you kidding me? I'm not kidding you. A woman who looks just like Trina drives past in the opposite direction. When we reach her house seconds later, there's no car in the driveway and no one answers the door. We're certain we've just missed her. We regroup. Go to Plan B.

We try calling the numbers we'd found. None of them work. Slightly defeated, we drive all the way back to Tacoma where we're staying, and we resort to Plan C. I'm just formulating the second paragraph of this email. All right, it is sent. Now we wait. And now we wait.

I hate waiting. So Tessa and I decide to do. something I've wanted to do since we arrived, we decided to retrace Misty and Trina's last known steps the night of the fair. So this is Blue Gate, which does kind of appear to be the main entrance. So this is, I guess, where Diana dropped them off? I think so. It's on the main street, Meridian. There are huge metal gates. They're closed right now. Diana dropped Misty and Trina in this spot around 3.30 p.m. Apparently, Diana had agreed to fib to Trina's guardian, saying she would pick them up later that night and take Trina home. So Diana was trusting these

two girls to catch the bus and get home safely. From there, Trina and Misty skipped off into the fairgrounds. You can picture it like when it's in full swing. Oh yeah, the sounds and the lights. We don't really know what Misty and Trina did at the fair. The next thing we know is that around 8.45 p.m., Misty calls Diana from a payphone, saying that she missed the bus home. That phone booth, according to reporter Sean Robinson, is right near the police station. He said the phone booth is like across the street from the police station.

Okay. The phone booth, as I understand it, is also right near the bus stop where, Misty was supposed to catch an 840 bus home. We head that direction. The map says it's a solid 10-minute walk away. So there's Piala Police. I don't know if that was really 10 minutes from where it was. It was not close.

It's not close. Yeah. Maybe Misty also underestimated just how far that walk was, and that's why she missed it. At least as I understand it now, it's from this area that she calls Diana, though whatever payphone she used, is long gone.

And I believe it's from here that Trina and Misty start calling friends, looking for a ride, and near here that Trina leaves Misty. The next confirmed sighting is here at the bus stop, around 9.20 p.m. This is where a bus driver tells Misty that the Spanaway route is done for the night.

There's also the tip from a woman named Tammy who called into a TV show to tell Diane that she'd seen a girl matching Misty's description walking by a 7-Eleven around 10 p.m. We go to check that one out and learn that the 7-Eleven is all the way back down Meridian, basically where we started. This makes me question the tip.

I think a sight against 7-Eleven at 10 p.m. is kind of unlikely. This just doesn't make sense. Why would she be here? The caller said the girl was heading south on Meridian towards a highway on-ramp. And technically, it is headed in the direction of her home and span away, but still another 10 or 11 miles away. There have been some swirling suggestions that Misty decided to walk all the way home, but now that we're here where she would have been making that decision,

that just seems ridiculous. There's no way she would have... Tried to walk home. No. I don't think so either. It was either she got a ride or tried to hitche. It seems like. Jesus.

I can't. She, I don't think that's that kid. From everything I've heard, Misty was a really good, well-behaved young teen. By 1992, the idea of stranger danger was really drilled into kids that age, my age. Hitchhiking, popular in the 70s and 80s, had become recognized for how dangerous it was, especially for girls and women.

We can't be completely sure, of course, but I just don't believe she would hitch a ride with a stranger. Tessa and I hop in the car to head home and continue to discuss the possibility that Misty might have tried to hitchhike. It doesn't seem terribly likely, but again, with 14-year-olds, their decision-making skills are not known to be well-thought-out, you know.

I mean, especially if she, like, had called and couldn't get a ride any other way, and she's like, what am I, I'm going to sleep on the street? I'm going to get in trouble, is the main thing she's thinking, you know, like kids are always afraid to get in trouble. So the idea of a 14-year-old Misty in 1992 hopping into a strange dude's truck is pretty unlikely. No matter how many times I go through it, or how many possible scenarios, I think through, I keep landing at the same place. Misty got someone she knew to agree to come pick her up.

And top of that list right now, for me is Trina's friend, Michael Reiner. I've done some more digging on his history, and what I've found makes me realize he's pretty suspicious. When Michael Reiner was 16 years old, a juvenile complaint was filed against him. Juvenile records are sealed, so I don't know the complete scope, but based on Sean Robinson's reporting, I know that the juvenile complaint accused him of abducting an 11-year-old girl and raping her at knife point and using a cigarette lighter to further threaten her. According to the report, 16-year-old Michael offered this 11-year-old girl a ride in his car. charges were never filed.

This was seven years before Misty disappeared. When questioned by the police, he denied it. Again, charges were never filed. But if Michael indeed abducted a girl and raped her at knife point when he was 16 years old, this is pretty advanced. There's something else, and again, this is according to Sean Robinson's reporting. Apparently, several of Michael's friends told police that Michael was a, quote, four-wheeling freak, addicted to stump jumping.

Some of his favorite trails were the logging roads near Enum Claw and Highway 410, end quote. Obviously, this could be relevant if it places him so close to the location of the genes, plus the locations where authorities found the bodies of Kim and Anna. Remember that question I was asking myself, earlier about who might have a reason to be out in this particular direction on Highway 410? Someone who might know about this section of secluded logging roads. Well, there's one answer. We know from police notes reviewed by Sean that when Trina told Misty that Michael could give them a ride home,

Misty declined. I bring this up with my producer as we're driving home from the fairgrounds. Now, the fact that she didn't get in the car kind of substantiates that, right? Unless she did. Unless she did. Right. This is the mind-bending challenge

in a cold case like this, with so little physical evidence. After so many years, there are so many rumors and narratives that have been built around this story. That's the whole thing about these cold cases is you really do have to go back to date one as though it's never been investigated.

Because if you assume that anything from the original investigation is correct or was vetted carefully, then you're going to end up with the same dead ends. You can't use the same roadmap and not get lost. My understanding is that Misty didn't get in the car with Michael Reiner, but I don't know that never happened. What if Trina never told police the full, true story. What if Michael picked them both up? What if Michael picked up Trina, dropped her home,

then went back for Misty? Or what if Trina lied or held back details in her second statement? And he actually picked them both up that night. And something went sideways. As we're approaching Tacoma, my phone gives a short buzz, a notification. that there's an email in my inbox. It's Trina. This can't be right. She writes me to say that she's willing to talk, and what's more, that she's more than happy

to answer any questions I have. I mean, holy shit. This is someone who has not agreed to speak with media for an official interview since, as far as I can tell, December 1992. We make a plan to meet at her house the next day. Coming up on who took Misty Copsie. I don't remember us saying we're going to ride the bus.

For Misty and I, we knew we were going to call Rubin the entire time. To me, there's no one who was floated as a suspect that we could absolutely rule out. I missed her. I mean, I know she's not there, but I don't ever want to. rehashed the feeling of being with her at the very last time and not knowing it was going to be the last. Who Took Misty Copsie is produced by Arc Media for ID. You can follow our show wherever you get your podcasts.

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