Who Shat On The Floor At My Wedding? And Other Crimes - S1 E8 Who shat on the floor at my wedding? 'The Entertainer'

Episode Date: January 15, 2021

The team unearth an important piece of evidence which brings a new sinister suspect to light. Forensic scientist Jo Millington comes on board to offer her expert opinion and opens up a new focus for the investigation: the animal kingdom. Detective Lauren Kilby and bride Karen feel they have no choice but to go to the zoo to assess possible suspects. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Previously on Who Shat on the Floor at My Wedding What about the photos that the photographer didn't think were good enough to send to me? That could be a whole other load of evidence. And? I found a couple of interesting photos that I want to show to you now just to see what you think. Oh! Welcome to episode 8 of Who Shat on the Floor at My Wedding I went through and zoomed in on the shoes and the feet of all of our guests Are you saying that you spent three hours looking for skid marks on people's shoes? That's exactly what I'm saying, Helen.

And luckily I did because I've unearthed a pretty interesting photographic lead. I mean, I think we can all agree that it's a very dirty shoe. It's a very dirty business. But it's a very dirty pitch, is what it is. It's a very dirty patch, is what it is. It's a patch. Certainly not the kind of state of shoe that you'd want to wear to someone's wedding. It looks like he's run across the fields, and

there were no fields. This is Amsterdam. He's gone from a bicycle across the gangway, up a boat, and he's been on a boat. Like, he's not been running across fields for goodness sakes. This photo is up on our Instagram page, Who Shed On The Floor At My Wedding, along with other evidence from this episode.

Well, I just wonder that if you'd noticed that you'd walked through a shed and then you had to try and clean it up, but you sort of didn't have the tools or the props to do it properly, I wonder maybe this could result in this kind of stain. Okay, I think we're looking at three scenarios here. One, this patch is actually from something wrong in the image or a light reflection or something.

Two, the stain is from something non-fecal, which is irrelevant to us. Or three, we've hit the jackpot, and this is the person who skidded through the faeces The thing that threw me was that, apart from obviously someone's shat on the floor in the wedding, was that the culprit had actually skidded in the last one that they had just dropped. Did any other guests' shoes have faecal matter or discolouration? She's skidded in the last one that they had just dropped. Did any other guests' shoes have faecal matter or discolorations or patches on them?

From my quick first glance, no. From your quick three-hour first glance? OK. It's suspicious. It's suspicious. We know that for sure. That's a fact. It's suspicious but inconclusive. I think it's pretty obvious who we need to call to ask for help.

My name's Jo Millington. I'm a forensic scientist. I've been working in the industry for about 26 years. I've been involved in the multidisciplinary forensic investigation of probably hundreds of major and critical incidents, either as lead scientist or in collaboration with other people. I report all aspects of forensic biology. So that includes scene examination, bloodstain pattern analysis, which is known as BPA, luminol application, body fluid analysis and DNA interpretation. What on earth inspired you to get involved in our podcast?

It's kind of a bit of a strong word, inspired. I genuinely feel that when you bump into people, you either get a good or a bad feeling about something. And when I read the email that you sent, I thought to myself, do you know what, this is a good project. As much as it is complete and utter nonsense, I thought to myself, you know, I spend probably 90% of my life working on very, very serious issues. And I felt that why not spend 10% of my life

working on something that actually could make people laugh. So that's the reason why I'm involved, basically. That is beautiful. It is. And also that you've just, on a recording, dedicated 10% of your life to us. That's what I'm most excited about. Maybe insert professional life for us.

Yeah, no, that's fine. 10% is okay. We can love with that. Isn't it? That's a legal contract now, isn't it? I would say so. Yeah, it is probably. Okay, so I was provided with a photograph of guests presumably dancing at the event.

And it included a particular individual who is wearing a pair of dark leather, probably black, brogue-style shoes. So all we do have is an individual's dark shoe with what appears to be a sort of brownish discolouration on the toe. It's difficult really to make any sort of substantive conclusions about this discolouration because it's not even clear whether or not it's actual physical material. It could potentially be an artifact of the photograph if there had been any glare or anything like that and if we take the absolutely unsubstantiated view that it is actually material then um whether it's feces or or really anything else your guess is as good as mine really he could have just literally dropped a canapé onto his shoe and it left this kind of mark, but it really is very, very limited. But do you think, so you, could it be faeces?

We can't rule out that it could be faeces. Oh, no, I mean, that's an absolute classic kind of prosecution bias question, really. The fact that we can't rule out the possibility that it could be feces and the answer to that question of course is you're absolutely right i can't but on the alternative and in the you know from a defense uh point of view then to put equity into this kind of investigation we cannot say at all what the heck that is. It could absolutely be nothing, basically. But it could be faeces, is what you're saying.

Yes, and of course that would be something that perhaps as lead investigator you would hope to sort of latch on to. Apologies, Jo, I'm just going to put you on hold for a minute. I know what you're saying is important, but I also have something very important to say about the patch on the shoe. It's not necessarily just about the patch on the shoe anymore. It. This man attended the wedding but not as a friend or a family member. Not even just a random guest. He was at the wedding because he was hired

to be one of the entertainers. And that is why we will now, going forward, refer to this man as the entertainer. He proceeded to stay on the boat at 9.30 when we dropped the other entertainers off, and he proceeded to stay on board to enjoy the party. Karen and Helen received several complaints from other members at the wedding about the entertainer.

It got to the point where Karen and Helen had to make an actual complaint to the other entertainers about the entertainer, about what he got up to that night when he decided to stay on the boat. He, uh, let's just say he didn't make a lot of friends that evening. Anyway, Jo, thanks for holding. Back to what we were saying. But with your opinion, would you say it's worth our while to get this individual in for serious questioning and to assess his shoes? Well, you could do.

I mean, that's obviously, I can't really advise you on how you progress the investigation as such, but all I can say is that... That sounds like a yes to me. Karen, make the call. Here's a quick disclaimer before the entertainer answers the phone. We have edited his voice slightly because we're a little bit scared of him

and we don't want to get into trouble. Hey. Hi, Ro. How are you doing? Sorry, is this a good time to have a quick chat? Yeah. Yeah, it is. So we've had one witness statement from one of our bridesmaids who said that they saw the turd on the floor and it looked like someone had accidentally trodden in part of the turd.

And we just wanted to know if you had things, we've been gone through all the photos, and we've seen that on one of your shoes it looks a bit dirty and we're just wondering it could be a very interesting lead that you possibly like walked through without realizing and that would actually give us a lot more information basically the photo looks like it could either be a weird reflection of the light because it's very very unclear but we just wanted ask, did your shoe look dirty at all? Or did it look like you'd trodden anything after the wedding?

No, no. No, I would definitely have noticed if there was dirt on the shoe. If I would, I would have called earlier already. But yeah, if you do have a look at your shoe and you're like, oh my God, there was something on there, just let us know. And otherwise we will shut down this lead. I wish I knew some more, but... If you hear anything else from anyone else,

please let us know. And thank you so much for being interviewed. Good luck. Thank you. Cheers, bye. Karen, thank you for making that a very awkward but very important call. I think it took you quite some time to get the entertainer on the phone.

It appeared that he may have been blocking you. Anyway, all I know is that we're not done with this man yet. But let's go back to our forensic scientist, Joe Millington, because, you know, probably shouldn't be keeping a forensic scientist waiting too long. Oh yes, what techniques can you use generally to analyse faecal matter that I might be able to take on? Sure, so I mean, it sounds kind of stating the obvious, but the first test that we apply to any kind of suspected fecal material is an observation test. So we look at it, literally, wearing protective equipment, etc.

And we assess whether or not it has the visual appearance of faeces. And if it does, that's a tick in the box. And we move on to the next test, which is the odour test. So if it smells like faeces and it looks like feces guess what folks it's probably feces but we can't stop there as forensic scientists we have to apply some sort of analytical test and the test that we apply examines fecal matter for the presence of this chemical called urobilinogen, which is in faecal matter. Interesting.

And then, so urobilogen, how do you say that? I don't know. Don't make me say it again. It's a really complicated word. No, so that thing, that chemical. We spend probably maybe two or three training sessions literally just pronouncing that word so I think if you haven't really attended those training sessions it would be it would be cruel of me really to make you say it yourself thank you okay well I'll let you know when I have attended

those um but for now let's just call it the chemical um and does the chemical I know that you said that it's very unlikely that um so far after a crime you could detect that chemical using that test what are the chances that i could take every pair of shoes of every wedding guest that attended and do that chemical test um via you of course you'd have to pull some strings for us to just submit 100 pairs of shoes to a lab. Yes. And then, obviously, what are the chances that two years after the fact we could actually trace that chemical and therefore know

that someone at the wedding had stepped in faecal matter? Slim. We couldn't make any really meaningful conclusions from any findings that we got. couldn't make any really meaningful conclusions from any findings that we got. We could just basically say 10%, 20%, 0% of those shoes have faeces on them, but we couldn't pinpoint it to when that faeces was deposited. So that means that, you know, like with bones or tree trunks, you can determine the age of them. You can't do that with faeces. There's no test you can do to say how old the faecal matter is. Precisely.

That sounds like a real gap in the market for us to move on to. The development of a test that could sort of specifically determine when something was deposited, and I use something meaning feces or blood or saliva or cells or absolutely anything that we look at in forensic science you'd be basically that wedding would have been on your own yacht you wouldn't have been having to hire a yacht you would have had a whole fleet of yachts so it's like the it's like the holy grail of forensic science so we're wasting our time working on this podcast is what you're saying we should actually just be working on this test that will

make us all rich yeah yeah i mean it probably take a good afternoon so don't expect really quick results for this i mean there's been a lot of, like, incredible minds working on this for probably decades. Helen and Karen are actually the victims here, so if you were to say something to them as victims of this crime, what would you say to them? I would probably say, on a on a scale of one to ten that there's a kind of the the significance of this case is probably on a bigger scale quite

small so probably get over yourselves there's a poop joe i just want to say here that I'm actually, you know, I feel like I've got a bit of a trauma from this. Do you? Well, OK, I apologise. But yeah, I mean, a mutilated body versus a shit on the floor at your wedding. I see your point. I do get it. Yes. I get it. Yes. Yeah.

I would love to know, honestly, what your initial impression of us as an investigative team is. what your initial impression of us as an investigative team is? Okay, well, I don't know. Haphazard. Inexperienced. No clue. So the first question that I asked during my kind of instruction was um well first of all were there any animals at the wedding i felt that was a really important thing to to understand you probably asked the same question yourself actually because the the anticipation is that if there had have been

an animal there that had been sort of wandering around potentially it could have you know left a little present on the floor of the bathroom and we wouldn't have known about it so I think that was important to to understand that. Based on the witness statements we it sounds like we can't rule out that this could be animal. We can't exclude that this is animal faeces on the basis of our observations or and in the absence of any test and we can't exclude that this is animal faeces on the basis of our observations and in the absence of any test. And we can't do any DNA analysis. So I suppose back to your original question, it's kind of meaningless, really. Okay, well, that's great to know.

That's really good that we're moving forward with the evidence. That's lovely. Okey dokey. Cool. Thank you forward with the evidence. That's lovely. Okie dokie. Perfect. Thank you so much, Jo. You are amazing. I think it is pretty clear what we need to do now. Why are we going to the zoo?

Because that's where the animals live, Helen. We have to go to the zoo. We have to lay our eyes on animals that we think could have been capable of either swimming up to the boat and then climbing up onto the deck of the boat, scrambling downstairs, defecate on the floor, scrambling back up the stairs, diving back into the isle mirror and back to wherever it lives.

Or alternatively, the animal may have boarded the boat when the boat stopped at 9.30 to drop off the tired and mature guests. And actually, may I add that two of the witnesses that we have interviewed over the course of this podcast have said that really looked like dog poo. Are you sure there weren't any dogs on the boat? This is a lead, Helen. We have to chase this lead. To be thorough in the investigation. We're a thorough investigative team. So, okay, so the idea is to try and eliminate the fact that it was an animal,

but I don't know what that's got to do with the zoo because they're all locked up. It's like saying, I need to find a suspect. Let's go to the prison and see who could have escaped from the prison and got onto our boat. That's actually a really good idea. We will go to the prison next. I can tell Helen's a little bit unsure.

So what I have done this week is I've done a little bit of research to see what precedents there are for animals climbing aboard various boats. And it's actually surprising how many incidences there are. So I just want to get your opinions on a few of the cases that have happened in the past. You're going to love this one. It's entitled the video on YouTube. It's actually got a lot of hits. It's got nearly three million hits. But the title is Huge Sea Lions Spotted Hanging Out on a Boat in Olympia.

And this is a perilous situation. See what you think about it. Oh, my God. That's bigger than I thought it would be. Oh my god. That's bigger than I thought it would be. Is that a seal? Is that two? It's a sea lion too. Sea lions.

Oh my god. They're massive. They're going to sink that boat. Has the boat cast a drift? Is someone in that boat a human? They're drugging it, yeah. Are they humping? Are they actually, they're humping the boat. Are they having sex?

What's going on? They're not having sex. What the fuck, man? You never said this before. I don't want to watch boat? Are they having sex? What's going on? They're not having sex. What the fuck, man? I don't want to watch animal porn, Karen. Yeah, what's going on? They're not on top of each other. Oh shit, maybe they are. It's porn.

Karen, they're humping. They're not. They're not humping. They are. I forgot they're humping. Porn slash horror movie. What's going on? I'm sorry.

They're not. They're not. I don't think he's on top of that one. They should come with a warning. That is disgusting. Yeah, I'm not into that. No, Karen. We're not they're not I don't think he's on top of that they should come with a warning that is disgusting yeah I'm not into that no Kieran we're not no

that's too far yeah yeah actually it's borderline pornographic I'm sorry about that we would have noticed if there were two fucking seals on the

on the bunch are we even going to solve this crime do you know what it's only now at this point in the podcast you've had that thought do you know what I mean what are we doing we've this do you know it's only now at this point in the podcast you've had that thought do you know what i mean what are we doing we've crossed the line multiple times but this is really something uh i did some actual research and i checked the netherlands um ocean society's uh statistics about the temperature of the isle mirror on the day of our wedding

and actually what i found it was very hot around that time, wasn't it? Was it not a heatwave? There was a heatwave before, and then on the day itself, it was not a heatwave. It was the year of heatwaves, many heatwaves. And as a result, we had a peak, almost one of the highest ever record temperatures of the ocean. We were so lucky.

So do you want me to give you the statistics about the ocean temperature of the Eiselmeer, where we were? I'd love to hear that. Yeah, let so the average water temperature in amsterdam in august overall from all of the years that this temperature has been recorded is 19 degrees in august okay so the very peak the highest on record temperature in amsterdam in august has been 21.4 degrees who wants to guess what the temperature was on the day of our wedding 21.3 no close though 21.2 no this is boring 20.4 degrees oh yeah so all i'm saying just a little fact for you to have in the back of your mind

when we go to the zoo tomorrow that the water was warm therefore could it lure in some more exotic creatures than what is native to the Amsterdam waters so I'm now supposed to know between now 10 to 8 at night

and tomorrow when we go to the zoo 11am I'm supposed to just gain an understanding of what types of animals live in 20.4 degree water. I'm not a fucking whatever the type of person would be that needs to do that. No, that's why we've got a professional expert. Who? Dr Cecil Sarabian, who just happens to be

one of the world's leading cognitive ecologists. She spent years studying primates' to fecal matter so i would say we've pretty much got the world's best monkey poop expert on board for a podcast i mean she's not coming with this issue she's in japan as well so we're gonna have to call it it's gonna be midnight they're gonna call her you're gonna call them all right there guys we need to calm down we're gonna go to the view we're gonna do our own feel we're gonna look at all the animals we're gonna report back to dr sarabi and then she's gonna tell us what's what but at least we've yes you know the detective has seen at hand these animals looking at their fecal matter let's see what her

gut feeling says yeah so you're gonna go you're gonna assess the situation then she is gonna hear your your conclusions i going to present my findings to her. A scientist. And she's going to... An animal scientist. She's going to listen to what I have to say about the animal kingdom. I have not been nervous

this whole time, but suddenly knowing that I've got a looming presentation to the chief of animal science. What are you talking about? You've not been nervous. You've been nervous. I haven't been nervous once.

You've been so insecure throughout the whole investigation. Insecure maybe. You are put on the spot a little bit. It's like, right. I always achieve. I always come through and I perform. But I don't know where I can pull this kind of shit from. She's given us a little bit of direction um of how to approach the

zoo tomorrow and certain sort of categories of species that we should be focusing our efforts on uh gibbons spider monkeys crested macaques and a nocturnal species the mouse lemur and then she says good luck at the zoo so is the idea to go to the zoo give lauren a crash course so that she can conform her own opinion and they can talk as almost equals when they are, you know, comparing notes of what they think happened on the day? It's a bit like a line-up, really. A line-up of suspects, but from the animal kingdom. I would say it's more like the coming together of two great minds.

Sorry. What, you and the chimpanzee? Do we have to wear khaki? Yes. Haven't you and the chimpanzee? Do we have to wear khaki? Yes. Okay. Haven't you got those things? You remember when we went into the rainforest and you had those leech socks? You could like wear those.

I've seen your leech socks actually, Karen. Wear those leech socks tomorrow. Why do you own leech socks? Well, I had... You were going for a walk in the Amsterdam park and you wore leech socks. I didn't realise they were... I thought they were waterproof gaiters. And then I realised I put on leech socks to go outside in Amsterdam and it wasn't my best hour.

In a city. In a city, yeah. I was wearing leech socks out. I think there's a lot of opportunity in this zoo visit. We're going to really get progress. We're going to make progress in the case tomorrow. Stay positive, Helen. To be quite honest, just from a production point of view, I'm hoping that we don't progress tomorrow

because I think it's going to be a bit of a nightmare. We're going to have to change the title of our podcast from Who Shat on the Floor at My Wedding to What Shat on the Floor at My Wedding. I think the chances of us solving the crime tomorrow at a zoo are very, very, very low. We've just entered the zoo. Karen has loaded a map on her phone. We originally tried to find a map,

but it wasn't where the woman at the entrance said it was. I thought a place like the zoo would be foolproof because it's supposed to be children friendly but not the case. Speaking of children, we seem to be the only two adults without children. Oh no, there's another couple there, that makes me feel better. So yeah, we look a little bit suspicious. I think whenever you're recording in an area where there's children, you look like you're up to

no good unless you look professional, which we don't. So I'm a little bit, I think we've got to keep our voices a little lower than usual. I think we're just going to have to pretend like we've lost our child and the child is somewhere that we can't find right now. So, Bobby, Billy, sorry, are we a

lesbian item now? I have taken over Helen's role. Speaking of which, we should probably explain why it's just you and me today. Yes. Helen had a bit of a change of heart in, you know, feeling this was a good direction to head in for the investigation. She didn't think it was fruitful. She didn't use that word, but I interpret it as fruitful. She also has a proper job and thought it was probably more important

to pay the bills rather than go to the zoo. Prioritise work, she said. Right, shall we head to the primates? Let's go to the primates, because our animal scientist advised us to focus on animals whose faecal matter most closely resembles human faecal matter. And that would most certainly be the monkeys. That's a monkey. That's a Macaque.

Yeah there he is. Oh he doesn't look happy. He looks really angry. He looks fired up. So let's just describe this creature gosh oh god he's not hippie he is oh god he's sitting down in the sun but he's getting very cross with the flies and he just caught one mr miyagi style angrily in the air he's got a very he's got one leg up he's got a leg up he's looking at his leg he's burrowing into the fur on his leg

looking for fleas he's looking around like he's a bit suspicious, doesn't want to be watched. He's got his back to us actually. I think he looks a bit guilty. He does, he doesn't want to confront us, he's not giving us eye contact, which is what you would expect from someone that is innocent. And he's scratching something on the wall. I think he's writing a message to us. He's just climbed, he's just scaled the wall.

He can definitely scale a boat if he just scaled that wall. He's got some kind of nut, some kind of acorn, and he's rubbing it aggressively against the wall. Also interesting, we're in the enclosure, which is surrounded by a moat, which suggests this is the prevention measure so he doesn't escape because otherwise it's pretty easy. He'd just crawl up here and go across the water. Look, it says here on this plaque that they, and I quote,

like to take a refreshing dip on hot summer days. So they're not adverse to swimming in the summer. Their enclosure is surrounded by water and your wedding took place just after a heatwave. This is pretty shocking. Also there's some trees with little wooden ladders swinging between them so you can have a bit of fun but the highest point of the tree is actually very close to one of the normal trees outside of the enclosure which suggests to

me that escape is actually not a far-fetched idea really here. I mean that animal sitting up there now, the angry looking one, could have escaped via that tree that you just mentioned, Karen, climbed down the tree, left the zoo on your wedding day, went to the boat, climbed the board and shat. He is a definite suspect. OK, let's go and ask those people over there to get a second opinion. This is really guerrilla podcasting. Sorry, could I just disturb you guys get a second opinion. This is really guerrilla podcasting. Sorry, could I just disturb you guys for a second?

Do you think, first of all, that these monkeys are capable of escaping this enclosure? We just talked about it. I thought just with a big jump they can do it, I think. Climb to the top and then whoop. I reckon they could, yeah. Do you feel scared? Are you frightened? Terrified. Yeah.

I mean, it's not a safe zone. There are a lot of children here at risk, in my opinion. And then the second question I'd love to know is, what do you think these characters are like? Could you describe how you think? Obnoxious. I find them obnoxious. Thank you very much for your offering.

Thank you for your time. No problem, good luck with the hunt. So that is the Japanese Makake, definite suspect from the primate section. Shall we move on to the next suspect? Oh god, someone's just been attacked. If you're going to commit a crime, it's a great place to do it. Lots of screams. That's a good point. It's like in Scream when they're watching the Scream movie and then the murder occurs in the theatre. Because everyone's screaming at the scary movie anyway.

If there's a suspect or a perpetrator running away from the crime, you wouldn't know. Because it would blend in with the children running excitedly across the pavement. Exactly. No one bats an eyelid when someone runs at the zoo. Yeah, here we go. We've got a specimen over here. Ooh, found the otters. Thank God.

Okay, that was the otter just speaking, listeners. Okay, let me try this. Excuse me. Did you or did you not shit on the floor at our wedding? Remaining strangely silent. Okay, we're in a strange interior zoo. It feels quite unhumid in here and warm here we go here we go here the lemurs here they are they look very dodgy oh we've got fecal matter we're just deposited right there so we just got some fecal matter hitting the ground um it looks a bit goosey it looks a bit

goose poopy. I'm not sure it's got the substance of what we had described from the witness statements. It certainly wouldn't be a comedy joke shop turd. This is something you'd find in a park. I don't like the way there's a very beady-eyed, fluffy, very rotund bird the size of a football. Very fit. Very fat. Very fat. Just staring at us, not blinking.

So in terms of the sort of behaviour, he looks suspicious. That's for sure. Yeah, he's... Let's get away from here. I'm feeling uncomfortable. There is something about this visit that's making me question my approach a little bit. I'm not going to lie. Last night, I don't know if I was feeling cocky because it was late and I was feeling a bit excited about the

zoo, but I really thought I was going to find a way to communicate with the animals. And I've seen none of that today. The animals aren't talking to me. They're not understanding me. They're not listening. They didn't really give a fuck about us. So just to recap, the Japanese macaque has proven to be the most suspicious animal in terms of not only its face and its red embarrassed looking face, but also the ability to actually escape from its enclosure and potentially go to the boat. Well I think that's a wrap. Yeah that's a wrap.

I would say that's an unsuccessful wrap. Right, it's time to take our findings from the zoo to a professional. Meet Dr Sarabian. My name is Cecile Sarabian. I'm a cognitive ecologist slash primatologist. And for me, this work started in a very weird location on a small island in the south of Japan, a small island called Koshima Island. It's only 32 hectares island where two troops of Japanese macaques inhabit. So there are no other human beings on this island, only researchers and Japanese macaques inhabit. So there are no other human beings on

this island, only researchers and Japanese macaques. And so, yeah, our work is to conduct experiments, but also to collect their poo, so to assess their parasite levels of infection. Well, I knew that you'd recommended us for us to go and look at the Japanese macaque, but I wasn't aware at that time that you, you know, had this really strong experience with this particular species. I mean, you'd specialised in not only this animal, but its response to faecal matter. So we, you know, imagine our surprise when we've just spent a day at the zoo and we've really gone through every animal. We even interviewed some passers-by and we decided that the Japanese macaque was by far the most suspicious animal,

just purely down to their behaviour, but also the way that they kind of lined themselves up in a detective line-up and were kind of very cocky towards us. And it was just very clear that they had been involved in the crime. If it was an animal it was definitely the Japanese macaque. Okay so I think if we take all the evidence that you have shared with me, so first for those Japanese macaques getting out of their enclosure and out of the zoo. I've seen water around their block of rocks inside their enclosure. But I would say that although Japanese macaques

are capable of swimming, they usually don't like it much. The water that you explained is really only a couple of metres, maybe three metres wide. And I did see a sign at the zoo that said they sometimes like to go in when it's hot and I do believe that there'd just been a heat wave in Amsterdam prior to the wedding so

it would make sense that that water around the cage had started heating up and they really felt the need to maybe go for a swim and on top of that there are some trees inside the enclosure that almost meet with the trees outside the enclosure. So I mean I would say without knowing anything about zoos or animals that it looks pretty risky. My main argument to rule out the Japanese macaque here is that I think all the noise and all the people on the boat would have distressed them. Would we not say that, you know, a group of animals from inside a zoo have very, very much a lot of noise, particularly children related noise, which is the worst type of noise. worst type of noise. So I feel like them going to a party on a boat would actually be less offensive and less overwhelming

than being in a zoo. I think the main question here would still be what would have attracted them inside the boat? They don't need to seek for food. They are provisioned with food. So, yeah, why would they take the risk to leave the zoo? That is a very good question. There might have been some food that was on the boat

that they just weren't able to access within the zoo enclosure. What is their favourite food? They are fond of peanuts. What if I was to tell you that there were peanuts on the boat? A lot of peanuts. More than there would be at the zoo. I think, though, as they are still primates, as their sense of smell is not that developed

to smell them from that far away, I think that would be maybe a bit too far for them to be able to detect that. You've done a very good job defending them. If this does go to trial, then I think you'd make a good lawyer for the Japanese macaques. They're very lucky to have you on their side.

I think it's safe to say that I've just embarrassed myself in front of a forensic scientist and the world's leading cognitive ecologist. Okay, so newsflash and super strange piece of timing. I almost don't believe it either, but I promise you this just happened today. I just received a call completely out of the blue from one of the other entertainers that we hired at our wedding. This person knew the entertainer, the man with the brown stained shoes, who I awkwardly called earlier. And basically, got to be a little bit

vague about how I say this, but this other man was aware of the complaint I made about the This other man was aware of the complaint I made about the entertainer's behaviour on our wedding day and the complaints many of our guests made about him. And turns out that he's actually looking to take some legal action against the entertainer. And he's asked me to file a report with the police or to file a character statement because he's basically there's been lots of other instances where he's upset people and they're looking to basically sort this out so can't really say much more than that uh but turns out that the entertainer is a bit more of a dubious character than we originally thought.

I'll tell you what, the number of dubious characters who attended this wedding seems to be growing by the second. Coming up next on Who Shat on the Floor at My Wedding. Is Karen the person who shat on the floor at her own wedding? I never thought she would be able to do something like this.

She's definitely done things like that before, 100%. What if our entire marriage is built on a lie? Karen Whitehouse, welcome to your interrogation.