Who Shat On The Floor At My Wedding? And Other Crimes - S3 E6 Who Shat In My Dishwasher?

Episode Date: September 24, 2025

Veronica’s Saturday morning began like any other, quiet and unremarkable. But by midday, her home had transformed from a place of comfort to a scene of unspeakable violation.The dishwasher, once a symbol of cleanliness, was now a crime scene.Who shat in Veronica's dishwasher and why? A simple yet extremely effective process of elimination proving that we are really good detectives, will uncover the shocking truth.The next case opens on October 9th. Follow us on Instagram @whoshatontheflooratmywedding for case evidence and behind-the-scenes.
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911, what's your emergency? Oh, you've got the wrong department, ma'am. This is the police. We deal with real crimes. Hang on, I'll transfer you to someone who can help. Karen. Okay, I've got it. Get the phone.

Karen, pick up the phone. Now. I'm just finishing my push get. Honestly, Karen. Hi there, it's Assistant to the Detective Karen Whitehouse here. How can I help? Hi there, hi. So I woke up and found poo inside my dishwasher.

Oh, okay. I'm going to have to patch you through to the lead detective for this kind of case. Hold the line. Alright, here we go. This is Detective Lauren Kilby speaking. How may I help you? Welcome to our brand new series When the cops say no, we say yes.

This is Detective Lauren Kilby reporting semi-live from our underground detective agency. I'm here with assistant to the detective, Karen Whitehouse. This season, we're launching the world's first speed-solving detective service. Each episode, we're going to take on a new non-crime crime submitted by one of our lovely listeners. We'll meet them, hear their story and present. back of groundbreaking theories

in an attempt to crack the case. Part detective show, part game show, part panicky race, this is when the cops say no, we say yes. Veronica, you phoned in to our hotline this morning saying that someone

shat in your dishwasher. They did. Can you tell me what happened? It was the weekend. Nice, largely Saturday, long working week. I thought let's have a cup of tea, let's make myself some breakfast. While I'm doing that, while the kettle's on, I'll unload the dishwasher. So I was unloading the dishwasher, bearing in mind I'd already taken a few mugs out and used them.

Only to discover when I took the saucepans out the bottom two golf ball-sized poos. I have no idea how they got there. They're not mine. I'd put the dishwasher on so they'd been rounded off in the size. rounded off in the cycle. They were perfectly smooth, rounded pooh. And it took me to completely unloading the dishwasher to notice them. Oh, Veronica, I'm...

First of all, I'm really sorry that this has happened to you. How did you remove the feces? Well, for a long time, I actually just left it there because I didn't know what to do with it. I didn't know if someone needed to come out and look. Because I actually did cool Thames water to say that there had been a sewage leak, because I couldn't think that this had entered the dishwasher

through the normal means. So I called Thameswater, so I thought I need to leave the poo in the dishwasher so they can see it. Just walk us through how that call went. I mean, it started a lot like this call, really. I kind of called them in a massive panic saying there's sewage leaking into my flat.

And they said, what do you mean? I said, I found poo in my dishwasher. You know, fair play to Thameswater. They took it really, really seriously. And they said, we don't take matters like this lightly. We're going to send someone out straight away to investigate. Already I felt quite relieved because I thought, you know, this is clearly what's happened. Sewage has come into my flat.

They're going to sort it out. This will never happen again. The engineer came round and, well, he looked in my drain outside the dishwasher, as in the drain outside the property. And he said that my drain's actually deeper than most drains, which is awkward. And at the time I thought, well, that's fine. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. And then he explained to me that actually it was very unlikely that the poo

had shot up three metres and not only shot up three meters, shot up through a really small pipe in which to then go round a bend into my dishwasher. So at that point I realised that that probably isn't what happened. And at that point I really wanted the ground to swallow me up because he clearly thought that I had shat in my own dishwasher and was really getting off on him stood there whilst I just pointed out these two rounded poos in my dishwasher. Was there a moment that his mannerisms and his body language changed to you and was it after he looked at your really excessively deep pipes? That sounds so wrong.

Again, I was in shock at this point because I thought I'd really kind of figured it out quite early on and that this was the only plausible option. So to be told that that really couldn't have happened and the possibility of that happening was very, very slight. I was in shock, so it was all a bit of a blur. I didn't want to talk much more after that I just needed him to get out

because it was humiliating Did you ask for a second opinion because I don't know how he suddenly has the ability to know like how faeces shoot up and down? I didn't. At this point I just closed up and I didn't want to talk about it with anyone. Veronica's Saturday morning began like any other

quiet and unremarkable but by midday her home had transformed from a place of comfort to a scene of unspeakable violation. The dishwasher, once a symbol of cleanliness, was now a crime scene. Thames Water has made their opinion crystal clear. There is no chance that feces could scale Veronica's 3 metre external pipes

and then magically dive into the dishwasher. This leaves us with one unsettling truth. The faecal matter didn't come from outside. It came from inside, from someone or something. This is not a matter we take lightly. Veronica's dishwasher has been violated, and until we find her closure, her pain is ours. So I was renovating my flat,

so I had no bathroom, just a tiny, almost cupboard-like onsuit in my bedroom. So I had a bathroom that had been completely gutted. There was no toilet, no bath, no shower, no basin, just a pipe in the floor that had a plastic bag over it and was taped down, so the door was shut. We asked Veronica exactly when she thinks the crime occurred. I may have not emptied my dishwasher for a few days because I was living at home by myself,

and I used to work in town, so it didn't need to go on very often. So I can't pinpoint the moment the poo would have found its way into the dishwasher. But the only visitors I had that week were two very drunk friends, including myself who was drunk, but I also knew where my on-sweet bathroom was. One friend who used to stay a lot and knew that I was going through renovations, my friend Melanie. She shared my bed with me and knew where the bathroom was. My other friend Sharon hadn't been around to my new flat yet. What did you get up to? We'd all been on a really great night out.

My friends weren't due to come back that evening, but both missed their trains. I live nearby. They ended up coming back, which wasn't unusual, that sort of thing happened. Sharon hadn't been back to my new flat, so that was a bit more unusual. Melanie always used to come back.

She always conveniently missed her train. Melanie loves a good drink, so, you know, you kind of go into the night thinking Melanie's probably going to end up staying. But, you know, she was used to it. She knew I was doing work on my bathroom. She knew the state of the flat. That Thursday night, we'd been out, both had missed their trains.

Sharon definitely couldn't get in a taxi home on her own, so we ended up bringing Sharon back with us and putting her straight to bed in the spare bedroom. And then the next morning, we woke up to find that Sharon had made her way to the lounge where she was lying on the sofa, really hung over, but oddly I was more confused than anything because I'd put her to bed in the spare bedroom. I was like, why are you in the lounge?

What was wrong with my bed? Was it really uncomfortable? She said, I just got confused. I woke up in the middle of the night and I thought I'd gone to the toilet. I couldn't remember where I was, so I just ended up on the sofa. Sharon.

Sharon. Not really looking good for Sharon. What time did you go to bed that night? That was probably about 1 o'clock in the morning. Did you tuck Sharon into bed? Yep. We tucked Sharon into bed, gave her a glass of water, and wished her good night. Do you wish you had tucked her in so well that she couldn't get out of the bed that night?

Yeah. Why? She would have shut all over the spare bedroom then. Oh, yeah, true. That's true. You know, that's true. If you had to choose between her sitting in your spare bedroom or in the dishwasher, which one would you go for? The spare bedroom.

I chose the dishwasher because if she shaked the bead, we wouldn't be doing this podcast. Where did you go for the evening? What kind of place? It was just a bar. We ended up in a karaoke bar, which is probably where it all turned a bit sour. You know, we had those extra few drinks that probably weren't needed. Did you go out for dinner before the karaoke? No, there was not a lot of food, which was also a bit of a problem. The problem was, I didn't put any of this together for a very long time, so it remained a mystery for a good. few weeks. Did you tell Melanie? I didn't tell Melanie because I was so ashamed at this point.

I just, I couldn't. Well, I'd sort of forgotten they'd come back at this point. I'd forgotten this night had happened. So yeah, I didn't really, I didn't fess up to very many people apart from my mum at this point. How security conscious are you as an individual in terms of when you're locking up before bed? I'm not the most secure. Was there any sign of anything being out of place in the days surrounding the shit in the dishwasher? No, nothing seemed abnormal. Nothing was out of place. So would you describe your house in the window of the time where the crime happened as an enclosed

crime scene containing yourself Sharon and Melanie? I would. So in your opinion, no one entered your house the evening in shit and your dishwasher? Not to the best of my knowledge. I hate to go there, but as fecal detectives, we have to, you know, really thoroughly investigate every potential option about how this could have happened. So I'm very sorry to bring this up, but we're looking at an enclosed crime scene

with three potential perpetrators, of which I'm afraid you are one of them until we rule you out. So we just have to go down this route momentarily. We have right now a woman who is an eye deception expert ready to receive a clip of you to assess if you actually shatter in the dishwasher. May I ask for your permission to send a video to this eye deception experts to assess if you are telling the truth or not?

Absolutely. I want my name cleared. Okay, so in order to proceed, Veronica, we need you to answer two questions. The first one is a control question, and it's just very simply, Veronica, are you a female? I am. Now the second part of this is not as fun. Veronica, did you shit in your own dishwasher? I did not shit in my own dishwasher. Have you ever thought about shitting in your dishwasher?

I have never ever thought about shitting in my own dishwasher. Has someone shat in your dishwasher before? Not before this instant. Has anyone shat in one of your appliances before? There wasn't a dishwasher? No one has ever shat in any. other with my appliances. Have you ever shat in an appliance? I have not ever shacked in an appliance. Okay, let me just take this, um, these clips. I'm just going to send right now.

Yeah, she's voting for it. This is a slick operation. Yeah, bloody well is. Yeah, she usually takes a few minutes from back. The problem is that we're like spate-holding experts, so we actually don't really have time to do things properly. Okay, that's gone over. That's with her now. We have to see if we're really focusing on Taran or Melanie or whether we have to take you for further investigation. The beauty of this case is that it's simply process of elimination if you're certain that there were no randoms in your house shitting in your dishwashers.

While the eye deception expert scrutinises the evidence, we must determine exactly where in the dishwasher the fecal matter was discovered. Can you see my mouse? Yep. Okay, good. Okay, this game is called pin the shit on the dishwasher. And you are going to tell us where in the dishwasher you found the two feces.

And Karen is going to move her mouse and you're going to tell her if she's hot or cold in relation to the location. I'm ready. Okay. Three, two, one. And the poop is on the move. The metaphorical poop is on the move. It's very cold, very cold. I mean, getting warmer a bit now, still, you know, lukewarm, getting warmer, getting warmer, getting very warm, hot.

If you imagine that tray wasn't there, it's hot, it's there. Right in the back. It was at the very base of the dishwasher, so where the water all filters away. And I couldn't tell you how powerful my dishwasher was. It was an okay dishwasher, so whether that matter found its way cycling around my dishwasher, but it ended up at the very bottom. Let's talk about your dishwasher for a second, can we? I mean, it was an old dishwasher. I'd kind of inherited it when I bought the flat.

It was a slim line dishwasher, so it wasn't the full size, so it was a small door. It wasn't an integrated one, but it didn't have the cupboard door on the outside, so it's very clearly the dishwasher, kind of had the typical kind of white door. In your opinion, could someone have straddled your dishwasher, knowing the size of it, is it feasible for a human, an adult human, to straddle your dishwasher? I think so. I think they might have struggled if it was a full-sized one. You'd have to have really long legs for that, I imagine.

Well, we're going to go into a dishwasher shop later today and without notifying or alerting the staff. What we're doing, we're going to test out a few slim lines, if you know what I mean. What's your dishwasher etiquette like? Do you always keep your dishwasher shut, even though you're waiting to add more items to the dishwasher? or do you leave it partially open to let it breathe? No, I always leave it shut.

We've got the response from the eye deception expert. I can confirm that she is telling the truth. You've been officially rolled out. This is what I'm saying. It's a process of elimination. Now we just have to eliminate Melanie, which will be pretty easy because she knew where the toilet was. But I do need to have some questions first.

I need to understand So your bedroom at the time featured a onsuit with a cupboard door How many times has Melanie used that bathroom? Melanie used it many times because she used to stay over She'd come out in my bed often She was well aware that it was there

And she was sleeping in the bed With you beside the onsuit So she had easy access to get to that room She was that side of the bed as well So she had to step out three steps and she was there. I'm sure she wouldn't mind me saying is a great snorer. So I would have noticed if that snoring had stopped in the time that she went to the toilet. That night she definitely didn't even go to the toilet because she continued to snore all night.

Did you sleep with your bedroom door open that night? No, the bedroom door was closed. Did Sharon before she came back to your house, did she know where that toilet was? No, she did not. Did you notify her where she could find the toilet? Should she need it? No. Again, we just thought the priority was to get her into bed with her glasses of water.

I think we can all agree that a fatal error was made by you, Veronica. And I think locking someone very drunk in a house with no obvious toilet and not telling them where the toilet, the secret narnia, toilet cupboard was, does tend to lead to these kind of things happening. So I don't want to point fingers or say that you deserve this, but you didn't help yourself. You perpetuated the crime. I take responsibility for that side of it. Yeah. And again, it's not about pointing fingers. It's just trying to prevent this kind of thing from happening again and acknowledging the behaviours that can really help you on that path to avoiding bupotrotation. Can we talk about Sharon for a minute? Good old Cheza.

Yeah. What's your relationship like with Shazza? We're still really good friends. I'm not sure that she's aware about this incident, if I'm honest. How did you meet Sharon? How do you know her? How long have you been friends? We've been friends probably nearly 10 years.

Are you aware of Sharon having anything against you? I'm not. There's got to be something. I might come back to that because I need to think of some reasons why Sharon might hate you and want to shit in your dishwasher. After we hang up the phone to you or you hang up, depending how much you want to get out of this pool. We are speaking to an expert witness, an alcohol and drug expert,

who actually presides over cases in real life. So he's going to advise us on the kind of combination of either alcohol and or drugs that could lead someone to mistake a dishwasher as a toilet. Could you just give me a bit of an inventory list of the types of drinks that were chosen at the... Everything you drank that night, just so we can give the full picture. We would have probably started on wine, some white wine. White wine. I think we probably would have maybe tried mellow out a little bit with some beers.

What type of beer? Lager, I would have thought. And then I think given that we ended up in karaoke, probably shots would have been involved. Of what? Zambuca. Zambuca. What, black or white?

White. No food whatsoever. There might have been some cheesy chips at some point in between walking from the pub to the karaoke bar. Chips or crested? Chips. Chips. Chipsy chips. This is England. Yeah, I know. I'm not England, so... What would your usual go-to sauce be for cheesy chips? Garlic mayo.

Yeah, I agree. That's the right choice. And do you think Sharon also would have gone for garlic mayo, as you remember? I think we probably would have shared some. I think that's very questionable behaviour. I wouldn't share in that state, but that's up to you. But that's irrelevant to the case. Are you aware of Sharon having any previous sleepwalking incidents or anything like that? There was this one time she slept walked. We're another friend's house and she slept walked.

It wasn't something she did regularly, but it had happened. What did she do during that sleepwalking incident? I think she just walked into the kitchen. No. No, Veronica. Are you lying? No. It's very important that you tell us the truth. She said she woke up because she was getting herself a glass of water.

This is not looking great for shower. So there is clear precedent of Sharon going into kitchens in the middle of the night where she's staying. Yeah. This is repeated behaviour. We need a sleepwalking expert. I actually think we do. I feel like I'm flipping a bit on you and you've been so kind to report this case into us

and as detectives we shouldn't turn on our clients, but I am going to turn on you because I am aware, Veronica, of an actual crime that you committed to do with this case. Do you want to confess right now? because I think you know what I'm talking about. Is it in relation to what happened to the dishwasher after the incident? Yes, it is. Well, for six months I couldn't do anything with it. I didn't use the dishwasher ever again.

I bleached it three times like any crime scene. And then I just thought I can't have this dishwasher just sat here, taking up precious room in this kitchen when I'm just not ever going to use it again. So I put it on gumtree. For free. I didn't charge people for anyone for it. You don't want a soil, dashosher, as long as you don't have to pay for it. And this really nice guy turned up with his dad and said,

thank you so much. And he was like, and just to be clear, it's working and everything, isn't it? Oh, it's working. And I was like, yep, yep, it's fully working. I haven't used it for a while. But yeah, I hope it's okay for you. Did he ask any other questions? Like, why are you giving us away?

No, I don't think he did. But at this point, I was just so happy to have this dishwasher out my life. I think we can all take a very important lesson from this that if you ever see appliances on Gumtree and they're free for collection only, I think you should ask a lot of questions. I think we should all ask a lot of questions before we accept the free white appliances. Do you know what? This case is looking pretty clear to me, and I'm feeling a little bit cocky.

I feel like we need to give ourselves less time to solve it, just so it's actually a challenge. Should we reduce it to 12 hours? I think we should, yeah. It's too easy. Yeah, normally we give ourselves 24 hours to correct the case, but this one's like a piece of cake, really. The only thing is I've got to find a sleepwalking expert that's going to agree to speak to us, so we might need to just use the time for that. Yeah, true.

And we still got to go to the dishwasher shop and try and shit in the dishwasher beer. I can confirm that your case is in very good hands, and I feel very confident that we'll get a resolution for you. That's amazing. That's all I can ask for. Yeah, I feel the most confident I've either felt in a crime. We should never get cookie. Think bad things happen when we get coffee. Yeah, that's true, actually. Yeah. We've got a lot of theories to test out now. I can't wait to go to the local chipping Norton dishwasher shop. Same. I'm so excited. Just very subtly, just squat. Just pretend on doing my shoelace up, but I'll be like squatting their dishwashers. And they're like, do you need any help, madam?

Oh, we have to distract them. When you're pretending to shit in his dishwasher? Really, and you'll be secretly filming me whilst distracting them. Oh, it's going to be horrific. Yeah, it's going to be bad. Lovely. See you soon. Bye. This case is officially open.

Time is ticking. The 24-hour speed-solving countdown to crack this case starts now. Countdown initiated. 24 hours left on the clock. 24 hours, also known as one day. Processing evidence. Processing evidence files. initiating lie detector machine

Suspect profile complete In one hour we'll be speaking to the alcohol and drug expert witness that leaves us with just enough time to pop to Karen's local dishwasher shop about to go into a white goods store to assess some dishwashers what do we hope to achieve from going into this place We need to make sure that we can straddle a dishwasher. What if they don't have any slim line dishwashers?

We just go and have a cup of coffee and chill. Then we just straddle a normal size one. And if you can do a normal size one, that means you can do a small one. But I've already proven that you can do that. I've already done that. What is the point of this visit? What is actually the point of this? And we're still walking towards it.

What is the point? We're meters away. I think we just need a dishwasher expert to advise us on. could a shick have come through the pipe. Oh yeah, true. Oh no, we need to take the pipes. You're right, you're right, you're right. Hi, good morning.

Hi. Hey. Is that slim line? That's not slim line. This is slim line. Yeah, that's slim line. No, but that's not the bit. But that's where it would have had to have come out of, right?

No, but it would have had to squeeze through a tube that small. I want to know how additional show works. Yeah, because that's the tube there, but I don't know if that's where the water comes in. That is the size of the tube. Yeah, no way. No way can face these fit through that. But we need to verify. Karen, go get someone.

Excuse me, is it possible to ask some questions just about how a dishwasher actually works? We investigate weird things that happen in the world, and one such case is that someone in a very inebriated state mistook a dishwasher for a a toilet and shatten it. Right. It was a slim line one. So we're just assessing a little bit of the, you know, the specs of how this could have happened. Okay.

Yeah. Where does the water come in to a dishwasher? Yeah. So it comes in and it sprays out of the top. So it would have come from the top. So if there was a shit that entered a dishwasher from the sewage, it would have had to have come from the top. Yeah.

So it sprays up here and it, you know, it comes out the top and out the bottom. So it comes out of both ways. So these are what these arms are usually. Yeah. comes out of. And the pipe that connects to the top is this one round the back, is it? It is, yeah. Yeah.

But it would have to come through that tiny pipe and then it would have to squeeze out of a small fountain at the top. These are like the jacks. So like some of these other ones, there's jets up the top and the bottom. So it's depending on obviously what machine it is. So do you think it's possible? For what, sorry? For a poo to travel through the pipes at the back and then come into the dishwasher through?

Definitely not. No. So someone did actually shat in a dishwasher. Someone definitely shat in a dishwasher. Yeah, yeah. Have you ever heard of that happening? Someone, you, like mixing up the appliances? No. No.

Ah, this is the expert. Doing a podcast, basically someone took a dump in the dishwasher and they basically want to know if a poo can travel up through a dishwasher. And I said, no, it can't because the water sprays through the jets and that's how the water will come into the dishwasher. I don't think it ended the dishwasher. They just straddled it. It's pretty easy to do, I'll show you.

And this is a full-size dishwasher as well. So look how easy that is. This isn't even a slim line. Oh yeah, yeah. Collects me closer together. Lauren. If you feel the need to see a video of this moment where I straddle a dishwasher in front of the shop assistants,

then go to our Instagram page at who chat on the floor at my wedding. So it's 100% come through the door and not through the back. Yeah. Yeah. We just had to assess all options really for this kind of case. Thanks for letting us into your shop and not calling security. I would just generally watch out and just because you guys are clearly targets. The goods that you sell in your shop are targets for things being used instead of a toilet. So just be very aware about how you conduct your business activities moving forward and yeah, stay vigilant.

The visit to the dishwasher shop has confirmed three things. One, Thames water was correct. The faecal matter entered the dishwasher through the dishwasher door. Two, it is entirely feasible to straddle a dishwasher, slimline or full size. And three, Karen and I should not be allowed in public places. Activating expert database. Professional experts at the ready. Contacting experts.

It's time to bring in the big guns. Introducing Dr Paul Skett. I'm a forensic pharmacologist. That means that I look at alcohol and drugs in a legal setting, anything from drink driving, criminal cases, civil cases, family cases, and even things like coroner's court, looking at how alcohol and drugs are involved in any of these legal settings. If this case we're going to trial, which it isn't, because we've clearly demonstrated we have no idea how to practice law, Dr. Paul Skeett would be our expert witness.

We are a bit perplexed about how essentially someone in an intoxicated state could have mistaken a dishwasher for a toilet. We've got the report of what alcohol concoction they consumed prior to this event. And we would just love your take on whether that's enough to have caused this state of confusion that could have led to this crime. Have you ever worked on other cases where someone has shat in an appliance? I have never come across that milk. Okay, so we have a victim

called Veronica. We're taking Dr. Skeett through all of the details of the crime. White wine with lager, white Sambuca. I would say Sambuca. Any information that we feel is relevant to the case.

We dropped off at a snack bar to get some cheesy chips that they topped with garlic mayonnaise. And she finds feces in the bottom of the dishwasher. Probably the best way to approach this is with a couple of stories. The example I quite often use in court was a young gentleman. Charged with drink driving, the police knocked on his door at 8 o'clock in the morning. We're going to charge you with drink driving. You were out driving last night.

He thought, I haven't been out of bed. said I had a load to drink last night I went to my bed about 11 o'clock at night you've woke me up at 8 I haven't actually got out of this bed and they said well just come with us and have a look at some video footage so there was CCTV around his flat

he came out of his flat in his pyjamas got into his car drove his car to the local garage the CCTV footage in the garage it's definitely him he goes in he buys some crisps he buys some juice he gets back in his car drives home parks his car where he left it and went into the flat and he said that can't be me I just have not been out of the flat and he said well there's the CCTV footage there's

the date is that you yes that's me and he remembers absolutely nothing Does he have a twin? No. And that's an alcoholic blackout. We ask Dr. Scare if there is a link between alcoholic blackouts and sleepwalking. That's a very difficult legal question. And yes, there is a link between those two. The actual alcoholic blackout is simply that the memory is not transferred from short-term to long-term memory.

Short-term memory lasts for a couple of minutes. So you can be doing things and knowing that you're doing, them at the time but then you don't remember doing them because it hasn't been transferred to long-term memory with sleepwalking you don't know at the time that you're doing it so the difference there is what you know at the time that you're actually doing it so here we have a case where somebody has defecated in a dishwasher yes they have no recollection they think they might have got up in the night because they've moved. The only way they know that they've got up is that they've moved. The law is quite clear. The actus reus, which is the

criminal act, and there's the mens rea, which is the knowledge in the brain to do that criminal act. So it's did you do the criminal act? Did you know you were doing the criminal act at the time that you did it? And that's the key. point. So yes, your short-term memory is working. You did know what you were doing at that time. But what if it's sleepwalking? If it's sleepwalking, then that is a pure defence because you do not know what you're doing at the time. I would use that then. If I was the defence lawyer, I would say, you can't prove that it's an alcoholic blackout. It could have been sleepwalking where they do not know what they're doing at the time. Yeah, I mean, that's been used

on numerous occasions. It's a very, very difficult defence to prove, particularly if you have been out drinking and there is evidence that you have been drinking. To use a defence like that, it's quite an odd thing because it's the wrong way around about thinking it. You've got to prove you were sleepwalking. So it's not innocent until proven guilty. Although one thing that we didn't tell you about Paul is that there's precedent. Sharon has been known to sleepwalk before and we have witnesses of that. And also she was found to be sleepwalking into a kitchen late at night. There's historical information proving that she can sleepwalk and go into kitchen. So if we brought that witness to the stand in this non-existent metaphorical court trial, do you think that would

be enough of a defence saying, look, you know, here's the precedent, witness here, seen the sleepwalking, so it's very likely that this was sleepwalking and not alcoholic blackout? That could certainly be used. The judge and jury, if there was a jury involved, it would also be looking at the intake of alcohol at that point as well. And it would be a judgment as to which of those caused the event. Was it alcoholic blackout or was it sleepwalking? Sharon is our prime suspect. But the question is, is she guilty because she was experiencing an alcoholic blackout, or innocent because she was sleepwalking. In a moment, we'll be speaking to a sleepwalking expert to help us navigate this case.

By the end of this episode, the truth will come to light, and Sharon's fate will be revealed. Well, if you've got to go, you've got to go. If you've got to go, you've got to go in the dishwasher. And if it's a dishwasher that looks like a toilet, then okay. Looking at various house appliances, I would probably choose a dishwasher. I would definitely not shit in a microwave, a toaster, a freezer, an oven. I think I'd probably go for the dishwasher. What about you, Paul?

I think so. It's the right sort of shape, and it would hold a piece as well. If Sharon was here right now, what would you like to say to her? I would say that don't drink quite so much because it makes you shit in the dishwasher. activating expert database Professional experts at the ready contacting experts It's time to bring in the sleepwalking expert

If we can prove that Sharon was sleepwalking when she shat in the dishwasher She bears no culpability for the crime And therefore faces a verdict of not guilty My name is Ian I am a sleep physiologist working in a sleep clinic and I have around 20 years of experience working in the sleep field. Sleepwalking would be considered in terms of a disorder of arousal. So if you think of it more like an incomplete awakening from sleep, so parts of the brain are awake. Obviously you're able to move, you're able to do

things, but you're disinhibited. You don't have the part of the brain that suppresses the instincts, if you like. What is the most alarming story you've come across with regards to sleepwalking? The most alarming case in the media was from a Canadian guy. I think it was in the late 80s where he left his house, drove, I think it was around 20 miles, and murdered his in-laws, and then drove back home and then woke up on his front porch covered in blood. Oh, wow.

Yeah, yeah, he used sleepwalking as a defense, and he actually was acquitted. What's the most extreme sleepwalking case you've come across in terms of people peeing or shitting somewhere that they shouldn't? It's a common thing that people do, particularly men, do when they've had too much alcohol. There's very often cases where they'll get off out of bed, go to the wardrobe, open the door, have a pee, and then go back to bed. So you've never known anyone that you've come across that's shat-in and appliance in

kitchen before. Not that I recall, no. Well I'm afraid this is the case that we're going to discuss today with you. The episode is called Who's Shat in my dishwasher? Okay. Yeah. We're presenting the details of the case to Ian. All challenge to resolve this case is we know Sharon did it, but the question is, is she culpable and we need to come up with a verdict at the end of this episode. She had enough alcohol for it to be alcoholic blackout, but she had a lot of precedent of having previously slept walked. Into kitchens. Okay, I mean, that's the key thing. Is there a history in Sharon sleepwalking? But I guess the other issue is, in some studies, alcohol's been shown to be a trigger for sleepwalking, but in others it's been shown to suppress. And this

is the interesting thing. A lot of patients who sleepwalk, you come into sleep clinics. Alcohol will stop them from having a sleepwalking episode, whereas others, it's a guarantee that they will sleepwalk. So we basically need to find out if alcohol triggers her sleepwalking episodes. The other thing is most people, if they go and stay in a hotel or if they go away on holiday and stay in a strange environment, they might not sleep that well because your brain kind of is semi-aware of where you are and it's unfamiliar surroundings. So as a sort of an instinctive protective mechanism, you retain a certain amount of awareness to the outside world. Sleepwalkers, some will stay elsewhere

and they won't sleepwalk whereas for other sleepwalkers it's a guarantee that they will sleepwalk. The incident that we know of where she has previously slept walked into a kitchen that was also at kind of a sleepover situation. Do you not think the fact that she was caught the next morning on the couch

she didn't actually go back to sleep in the spare room so if she had committed the crime and she wanted to get away with it she would have taken herself back to the spare room and put herself where she was put to bed and say, you know, if she was questioned about it that she knew nothing about it. But instead, Sharon stated proudly

that she woke up, was confused, couldn't remember where she was, so went to sleep on the couch. And as we're discussing this with Ian, something suddenly dawns on us. She remembers waking up. Does that mean she wasn't sleepwalking at all? Oh no.

Oh no. It gets very complex now because maybe she got up with sleepwalking initially and then came to her senses because obviously it's not an instant lights on situation Let's break down what Sharon said when she was confronted by Veronica

I was like, why in the lounge what was wrong with my bed? Was it really uncomfortable? She said, I just got confused I woke up in the middle of the night and I thought I'd gone to the toilet I couldn't remember where I was so I just ended up on the sofa.

Let me translate. I woke up in the middle of the night. I came too during a sleepwalking episode. I thought I'd gone to the toilet. My body told me that I had just relieved myself, i.e. I had just shattered the dishwasher. I couldn't remember where I was, so I just ended up on the sofa.

I was sleepwalking when I left the spare room, so now I have no idea how to get back there. So hello, sofa. This proves that she was definitely asleep and was sleepwalking when she left. left the spare room. This is phenomenal detective work. I think that was quite good, wasn't it?

Yeah. And I think that was really interesting what you said before that some people's sleepwalking can be activated by alcohol. So I think finding out how many of her sleepwalking incidents were related to drinking.

I mean, that would just be, that would be proof. The proof is in the pudding, you would say, Ian. Yeah, I think the legal argument, if you're a sleepwalker and you're triggered by alcohol, then the advice would be,

don't drink. You know, if you're going to put yourself in the standard, in a situation. If you drink knowing that it triggers sleepwalking, then you're kind of responsible. Ian, based on the facts that we've just presented to of the case, do you think Sharon physically shut in the dishwasher? Yes, I think based on what you've said, yes. Do you think Sharon was aware, consciously in control, of shitting in the dishwasher or not? No, I don't think so. so you think she's not guilty

I think she's not guilty in the sense that she was unaware of her actions at the time so do you think that makes Veronica the real guilty person in this crime because she's the one who basically took her toilet apart her bathroom apart

locked someone in a spare room without giving them the guided tour hid the only working toilet in a small narnia cupboard shut the bedroom door and let her go for it do you not think that Veronica might be the one to blame in this scenario.

I think that's quite harsh. I think it's fair. I think it's very for you. If you had to give her a punishment to correct her actions, what do you think would be a good punishment for Veronica? I think she should be made to go to some antiques market and find a really nice old-fashioned bedpan so she can keep a bedpan in the spare room for the future.

Oh God, that is so gross. A second-hand bedpan from Victorian time. Well, we should take that on board and maybe we'll give her that as a present and we can engrave it or something. Or we could just give her a bag of nappies, adult diapers that she could use. Or handcuffs to the bed. Lock them with handcuffs to the bed. There is historic cases of people who tie themselves to the bed to prevent their sleepwalking. A bit of bondage.

Yeah? Yeah, why not? Well, also me, and I can't wait to go vintage bedpan shopping for this case. So thank you for that beautiful bit of inspiration. we are closing in on the truth but one crucial question remains we need to return to veronica we need to find out whether alcohol was consumed the night Sharon wandered into the kitchen the other night the one where she didn't defecate in the dishwasher if we can establish that Sharon's sleepwalking episodes are triggered by both alcohol and unfamiliar environments then the case for her sleepwalking becomes undeniable this This is the final piece of the puzzle. When she was sleepwalking in the house that you referred to in the first interview, and she appeared in the kitchen, whose house was that?

That was another friend of ours house. Do you know how many times? Do you think she had stayed in that friend's house before? Probably not that often, because I lived a bit further out. Wow. There's a bit of a link here, isn't there, Lauren? There certainly is a link. Was there alcohol involved?

at that other friend's house where she appeared in the kitchen sleepwalking. That absolutely was. Yeah, it was definitely at end of the night, let's head back there kind of thing. There we have it, Lauren.

There we have it. She's triggered by alcohol, she's triggered by unknown places, and that is when she sleepwalks. Seems so, yep. Oh, that's it. We got you. Well, we didn't get you, actually.

Well, we've just, we've got you. You're not guilty. That doesn't really work, is it? The sleepwalking expert also agreed with us that you are a little bit guilty in this case because you put a very drunk person in a room. You shut your bedroom door, which was the key to the Narnia toilet. The main bathroom was not working. So part of this does lie on you.

Sharon is not guilty, but you are a little bit guilty. I can take that. Sadly, the only slightly harsh part of the conversation we had with the sleepwalking expert is we asked, well, if you think Veronica has a tiny bit of guilt, what do you think her punishment should be? He suggests that we find you a vintage bedpan that can go in your guest room, which sounds pretty gross. The thought of a vintage bedpan has been a lot of things going into that bedpan over many decades and centuries. I think he was thinking more like 19th century, a little 19th century bedpan. that we could possibly send to you as a punishment slash gift

which has twofold it's a slight punishment but also prevents these kind of things from happening in the future because future Sharon's will have a bedpan I mean it's better than them shitty in my dishwasher

so I'll take the vintage bedpan I mean I see that more as a gift to be honest Should we send handcuffs with that as well Lauren? Yeah definitely yeah This is the first crime prevention who shirt hamper we've ever sent even though Sharon isn't culpable because she was sleepwalking.

There is a subconscious part of the axe while sleepwalking, and that can be good intent and bad intent. And I just want to leave you with the fact that if it was malintent, subconsciously, she would have shat on your carpet in a terrible place. We all think the dishwasher was the one to go for. It was the appliance that sung out to us as the easiest to clean up. So actually, deep down, she was really caring about you, and she did her very best in that moment.

I'll take that. The thing to remember with sleepwalkers is they may be aware that it's a potential thing to happen. They know they sleepwalk. They have a history of sleepwalking. But the most important thing is at the time, at least initially, their actions are not conscious. They're not aware of what they're doing. So they can't be blamed for anything, including murder? I think that's for the judge and jury to decide. I'm the medical experts. Which is us? Which is, yeah. Which is us right now. But yeah, I think just an awareness that during the event, even however bizarre the behaviour may be,

they weren't necessarily aware of what they were doing at the time. And remember, they've got to live with it. They've got to live with the consequences. Any final message to Sharon? Sleepwalking expert to Sleepwalker. Make sure if you do go out drinking, that you go to the bathroom before you go. What would you like to say to the perpetrator? Imagine she's right here.

what would you like to say to her? I think enough time has passed now that I've made peace with it. I suppose I just want an answer. I've mulled over it time and time again and run over all these different scenarios in my head but now I just want to know what really happened. But she was asleep so she probably can't tell you.

This case is officially closed. We've just ruled Sarah. as being innocent. She's not guilty. I just got a message when we were trying to get Melanie on board to see if she would speak with us. And I think we've run out of time because of the 24 hours. But as I reached out to Veronica, she just sent me this message about Melanie. She said, she hasn't said no. She thought it would be fun to be interrogated by you both. I'm optimistic. She asked me to send the edit, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then Veronica said Melanie also reminded me that our friend Sharon in the final taxi on the way home

before Sharon was put to bed there were two songs she was drunkenly singing in the taxi oh no do you know what those two songs were final countdown and danger zone no no my stomach sunk a bit because I just wonder if she's had the last laugh here. I just wonder if Sharon's had us all. 20 minutes before you're about to be put to bed and that's the zone you're in. What does that say? What if she was planning this all along? It wasn't on the radio. Those are the songs that she decided to sing. There's something about the comedy of those two songs that make me think there's a bit more to Sharon than meets the eye. Something might have happened that night where she was a bit fucked off with them both? I don't know.

Are you aware of Sharon having anything against you? I'm not. Sharon, if you are listening right now and you'll know who everyone is, because you know Veronica's voice, even though that's not her real name, Sharon, get in touch with us, because we need to have a little chat. A friendly chat.

We need to strap her up. We need to strap her up. We took Sharon into bed, gave her a glass of water, and wished her good night. It's the fecal countdown. Well, if you've got to go, you've got to go. There might have been some cheese and chips at some point. Sharon.

Sharon. The Fecal Countdown. And if it's a dishwasher that looks like a toilet, then okay. There's more to this than we thought. I don't think it's case closed. She's head us. This lyric, I guess there's no one to blame. There is someone to blame, and potentially there is Sharon.

Has Sharon just heard the last laugh? I think it's possible. It's hard to even trust, even your best friends, the ones that go way back. I think the thing we've learned is that however much you want someone to be innocent, it's never black and white.