WHOA That's Good Podcast - A Messy Conversation About Cussing: Is It a Sin?

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

Sadie, her mom Korie, and her husband Christian all tackle a messy conversation about cussing. Is it okay for Christians to ever cuss? What about replacement cuss words—is that okay? And ultimately, is any cussing a sin? What about cussing in movies or music? And swearing an oath? Sadie, Korie, and Christian dive into the Scriptures to read what God has provided to us as a guide. Topics like this are brimming with nuance and even cultural differences, depending on where you are in the world. So wherever you land in this conversation, remember that extending grace and reserving judgment is a great way to start! And never forget the power of the tongue—it can be a weapon or used for good! This Episode of WHOA! That's Good is Sponsored By: https://drinkag1.com/whoa — Get a FREE 1-month supply of AG Omega-3, plus their Welcome Kit and 5 AG1 travel packs with your first subscription! https://drinklmnt.com/whoa — Get a free LMNT Sample Pack with any purchase! https://covenanteyes.com/sadie — Visit the website to earn more and start your journey toward a healthier, stronger marriage today. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Okay, flights on Air Canada. How about Prague? Ooh, Paris. Those gardens. Gardens. Um, Amsterdam. Tulip Festival. I see your festival and raise you a carnival in Venice. Or Bermuda has carnaval. Ooh, colorful. You want colorful. Thailand. Lantern Festival. Boom. Book it. Um, how did we get to Thailand from Prague?

Oh, right. Prague. Oh, boy. Choose from a world of destinations. If you can. Air Canada, nice travels. What is up everybody? If you saw the title of this podcast and get ready because this is going to be a messy conversation

But one I am so excited about when I first heard the idea that we should have a messy conversation on cussing It was very funny the reactions that I got to asking people to be my guests So the two here today are the ones that braved it and made it on this episode Christian I did force. Christian, I forced here. Mom was the brave one. Mom did her research. I'm always up for a messy conversation.

I like these. This is my first one. This is your first messy conversation? Yeah. Oh, cool. Cause y'all did tattoos and I think sex. What about identity? I've just seen your maturity grow. That was a messy conversation.

Okay, then this is my second. I've just watched you mature over the years and thought you were ready for this. What are you talking about? I'm just kidding. Actually, funny enough, this is a true story. So I asked Christian to do this messy conversation on cousin and he said no.

And I was like, oh, but that would be so good. And then, well, I asked you, Bella and Jacob, and you all said no, to be fair. Well, Jacob said yes, but. Jacob said yes, but I was like, no, actually, I'm saying no on behalf of you. You can't do it. You're too far.

You're too far on the other side. No, just kidding. But then that night, we came over to your house, and I was telling you about it. You're like, oh, that would be really good. So then we get in the conversation. Then Christian, you're chiming in, saying some things, and we get home, then we get into like

an hour long conversation about this topic, and you had so much wisdom on it. You had, like, you were just like, it was so good. Everything you were saying was like, this is so good. And then after he finished, I go, man, this is gonna be such a good podcast. He's like, oh, I'm not doing the podcast. I was like, what do you mean you're not doing the podcast?

You just talked about it for an hour. So I made you do it because you had really good advice. Well, I'm happy to be here and that you value my opinion. So thank you. I so value your opinion. So we're having a messy conversation about cussing and kind of like where we, I guess, why we title some conversations messy and some not messy

is typically messy conversations or conversations within the church where Christians differ in. We could do one on drinking because some Christians believe it's okay to drink, some Christians don't. We do one on tattoos because some believe it's absolutely not okay to have tattoos,

and then some pastors and worship leaders have tattoos. You can do one on modesty because some people feel okay in a bikini and some people don't. Cussing kind of falls under those lines because some people in the church think it's absolutely not okay to cuss and others think it's fine. Like it's not a big deal,

doesn't not a sin, anything like that. So what's the problem? And so we were like, let's have a conversation about it. And the reason I asked multiple people to do it is because I want us to, I think we're gonna come to a place of just reading what the Bible says, but maybe we differ in how we view cussing,

even the three of us. And so we'll start it out by just asking the question, do you guys cuss and, even the three of us. And so we'll start it out by just asking the question, do you guys cuss? And what is your viewpoint, just everyday life? Where does cussing fall for you? We're just cussing fall. Where are you at with your language? Would you have an explicit title on your life?

I would definitely not have an explicit title on my life, although I'm the only person that was believed on Duck Dynasty. If y'all remember, one of the very early episodes, I think it was playing football, and I fall. You fall on the bleachers. On the bleachers, and I got bleeped. And I did not, I mean, I probably said shoot, maybe.

Or maybe I said crap. OK, wait, we need to give a disclaimer. If you're listening to this with your kids, we might say words that you might think. Like some people think different things are cuss words. Okay, wait, we need to give a disclaimer. If you're listening to this with your kids, we might say words that you might think, like some people think different things are cuss words. Yeah, that's true. We don't think crap is a cuss word, so we say crap. Actually, I remember the first time I said crap,

you said, say you can't say crap. I said, you say crap. And they're like, oh. I was like in fourth grade. Your favorite is crud. Yeah, you say the crud and the shoot. Crud and shoot a lot. But anyway, I didn't cuss.

I really did not. And they did bleep me. And Phil stood up on my behalf. He was like, she did not say a cuss word and all that. Not that I'm above saying a cuss word. There have been times when I have dropped them, mainly if I get scared. Yours are always fear moments.

If I fear for my life, sometimes a word will come out and it's not shoot. But very rarely I would say, I don't think that comes very often. I've only heard you cuss I think one time and it was in the Johnny's Pizza parking lot when your car, you thought you braked and you didn't and you went forward and you almost hit a car.

And then you let something out and we were like, mom! And you were like, if you think you're gonna die, it is okay to say it because you threw that. I don't know if that's a good advice. I started laughing and y'all started laughing so hard. And then John Luke started saying that word all the time as a joke, like even just like throw it out to me intentionally to make us laugh.

So yeah, I mean, I don't cuss regularly. I didn't grow up with it. I mean, my family was very conservative with this. Like we didn't say butt, like you had to say booty. We didn't say, we said two. You know, like we were very conservative with that. But strangely, like we did say booty. We didn't say, we said two. You know, like we're very conservative with that. But strangely like we did say crap. My dad said crap.

So I said it. Mom, I don't think I've ever heard my mom. Two mama does not say anything. She says booty. Like she doesn't say anything. So I didn't grow up with it. Didn't like, was not just kind of like a normal part of my vocabulary at all.

But I will say I always felt like it was silly. Like words are words and like, why do we deem some words a cuss word and some words this? So I think with y'all, I tried to kind of just say like, words, some words are inappropriate, you know? And like, it's inappropriate for you to say in like context and all of that I think is important. And so it's like, I didn't want, we were around a lot of people who did cuss a lot

and it doesn't bother me if other people cuss at all. And so I didn't want y'all to be like, oh, they're a terrible person. They're going to hell because they said a cuss word. So I just try to teach y'all like, some words are appropriate, some words are inappropriate and how do we view it that way? And so that's kind of how I look at it.

Yeah, no, I think that's really good. There's a lot of scripture actually. We're gonna get to it. And so I think that there's a lot of nuance to that. But I guess I should say, I think that yes, why do we, there is, a lot of it is societal and cultural and what's appropriate or Inappropriate for a moment or not Reading into this for this podcast and there's actually more scripture on it than I thought

Yeah, so I'm excited to get to that but Christian. What about you? Okay, am I cusser? No, do I occasionally say cuss words? Yes For me, most the time it's either in fear or anger. Like if I'm driving home today and someone almost hits me, or if someone's like riding on my bumper, you know, I might say like a what the H kind of thing, which is not right. Christian's guessing, cussing, of course.

He just says the first letter. You do. Actually, in this new season of Drug Dynasty, we've seen some clothes. My favorite one. D word. D word. Yeah, I'll say D word.

To clarify, he literally says D word. D word. He doesn't say the D word, he says D word. Which could be like darn. Yeah, it could be darn or darn it, dang it. See, people probably think dang it's a cuss word. Yeah, or if I miss a flight or, you know, just if things like that,

like I'm just thinking of things that are, and most of the time for me, yeah, it comes out in anger. And I'm also at a point in my life spiritually where I actually do feel conviction for saying cuss words. And I don't think it's because of like a societal thing that like, you know, society says it's bad. So I try not to, like, I'm not abiding by that. But yeah, I think following Jesus, I think looking at it through the lens of what would Jesus do, I don't think Jesus would walk around using obscene language and cussing

and saying, well, it's not actually a sin. So I don't think that's what he would do. So if I'm actually trying to emulate my life the way he did, yeah, I don't think then I should be doing it. But then again, you know, I do think it's wrong. And we'll get into the is it wrong or is it sinful conversation here a little bit. But do I occasionally cuss? Yes, what I say, am I cusser? No. Yep, that's good, I think that's fair. Well, I mean, even Jacob, when we had this conversation,

he's like, you know, he was like, yeah, I cuss. And he's like, but I'm not saying it's good, I'm not saying it's right. You know, and I thought that was funny to hear Jacob say. So I think it's cool for you to say like, yes, I do, but I'm at the point in my life where I do actually feel conviction when I do, you know, which is cool because you used to not feel that way. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Years and years ago, before we were together, and I was not

necessarily a Christian. Yeah. I wouldn't, if I was dropping bombs, not on the softball field, but in my mouth, I would not feel guilty per se. And yeah, a lot of it also came from inputs in my life, whether it was inappropriate movies or things I was watching or music I was listening to. And even as people I was hanging out with, if it's, because you know the kind of people, it's like when you're around certain groups of people,

you're one way. It can be respectful, but to me, I'm like, just be who you are all the time. Like if it's around church people, back when I was not really following Jesus, I would try to be more proper, more polite. But when I'm with my worldly friends, it's like, yeah, F bombs.

And it's because it's like, that's what- It's culture. We get in the car, we're listening to worldly music about adultery and just all these terrible things. It's like, well, if that's what I'm constantly filling my life with or if I'm watching Wolf of Wall Street and an inappropriate movie like that, which says the F word hundreds of times,

then I'll probably be more prone to use language like that. If I'm versus if I'm not watching or listening. Very true, which we're gonna get into all that. Definitely what goes in does come out. Does come out. Does come out. Yeah. Yeah.

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Again, that's drinkag1.com slash woe. Okay, for me, am I a cusser? No, I'm not. Yeah, that's not really been a thing for me, but when I think back into high school days, I remember feeling more tempted to, which is funny, but, because it is a temptation. Like, I remember when people started cussing

and you thought that was cool, or there were certain words that people would say that you're like, oh, that would be cool if I said that or whatever, which is so funny now looking back. But even if I did, it would feel so unnatural. It's like, man, that was forced, or like that didn't feel right.

Or it would be like, I would actually think about it before I say it and make a decision that this is where I'm gonna say to fit into a moment. But now I don't feel that or experience that. And I think the only time in the last few years I've felt tempted to cuss was after labor. And it was after labor, not even during, it's when you go to the bathroom,

I don't know if you have a baby there. It's not pleasant. But I say it to say true pain is the only thing that almost got me there for the most part. But it's not really in my vocabulary because I don't watch shows that use language or listen to music that use language. Occasionally, I listen to podcasts of people who,

you know, use language, but they are saying such great things and I want to listen to them and whatnot. Because again, like you said, just because someone cusses, it's not bad. Like, I don't think it's like sinful. They're not thinking that. So you can still learn from and think that, you know,

so much of what they're saying is so good. So yeah, I don't like write it off. It's like, oh, I can't watch this because they're cussing. I don't get into like the self-righteous mode of that. But I just prefer not to listen to things I do. It like, it's not casual to me. Like if I hear like a word, there's been several TV shows we've gone to watch

and like only murders in the building or whatever. Like I really wanted to watch that show. But within like the first three minutes, they already said that before and I was like, I just don't really wanna watch it, you know? Or like music. It's not that I just kind of like don't understand. I'm like, why?

Like I don't get the point of it. It's just unnecessary. Like a war movie with people getting shot at. Oh yeah, that actually doesn't bother me. It's different. Because I'm like, you're getting bombed, you know? But like there's an intensity of a situation that kind of like makes it make sense.

But when it's just like, it just feels like unnecessary. And I like to watch that. People do kind of like use it as a crutch of like for humor or something. And like, there are like, obviously like some things are funny about it, but like sometimes it's like, it's just over and over. You're like, it's not really funny.

I don't understand it. That's what I was saying earlier for me with anger. Like I said, we're gonna get into the sin part, but at least for me before I really redeemed, the Lord redeemed kind of who I was. I feel like for me, because different than 2000 years ago with phones, yes, you're speaking words,

but also it truly is what's in your heart. Cause I can think about so many times where I would be like texting something and oh, that's not funny. So I'll throw in the cuss word version of what I was saying to amplify it or to make it more funny or to try to fit in or whatever. So I do think that there are moments where like I think people pleasing is a big thing where you're trying to fit in when you're trying to make people laugh by using humor. And to me, I think that's when it crosses the threshold. I think so too. Well, and on the other side of that, people really do notice when you don't cuss.

They do notice, and that is something during, even when we were filming Duck Dynasty, because people, when you're filming, you have a microphone on, and there are people basically listening to you all the time. You go to the bathroom, be aware that somebody might be listening, because you have a microphone on and there are people basically listen to you all the time. You go to the bathroom, be aware that like somebody might be listening because you have that microphone on. And so that is something that several of our crew

did comment on that's like, wow, I just don't hear that like language. Yes, and not like I said, not like we're perfect. Like they're, you know, somebody may say something or whatever, but it's like different. It's like, I notice it's like, oh, it's different because when I'm, you know, one of the guys actually on our crew right now, he was like,

oh, I've been cussed up and down. I've been, you know, I've been, in my ear is normally like, that is what you're hearing, but it's not just that we don't cuss. It's like, oh, I'm hearing more pleasant, wholesome talk, you know? And people do notice that. Yes, there is a verse and it was talking about like, let your speech always be gracious and seasoned with salt

so that you may know what your answer is to be to a person. And then it talked about like, so that they would receive it something like great, graciously or something. And I was thinking that is so true to that point. Like when you don't use language, people notice and it's like there's something pleasant about it. It's like easy to listen to.

It's seasoned with salt. It's like Proverbs 16, which we named honey after, gracious words like a honeycomb, healing to the bones. And so I think that, yeah, people do notice and you just feel comfortable around somebody whose words are more uplifting. I mean, Ephesians 4 talks about that too and we'll probably get to that.

But it talks about, I wrote it down, let no corruption talk come out of your mouth, but only such that is good for building others up. So like people notice because even the phone crew was saying like, man, don't feel as like threatened. They were like, literally people were cussing at me and I haven't even heard y'all like say words like that. And so yeah, for me, back in the day,

more people pleasing, temptation, and then now more just like actual pain, but really not, it's really just not even in my vocabulary. I mean, C.C. Winans was on recently. She had this funny real go viral. I mean, it wasn't supposed to be funny, but people thought it was funny. She said, when you stub your toe,

cuss words shouldn't come out. It used to say like, hallelujah, thank you Jesus. And everyone laugh. And then she was like, why are you laughing? She was like, because it shouldn't be in there, because it shouldn't even be in there. And I do think I've kind of gotten to a place in my life where it really isn't in there.

Like I don't think to cause I don't have that. That's just not even in my vocabulary, in my words, which I do want to go ahead and read in Luke, which we're going to cover so much. But this has been a really pivotal verse for me. And actually this was a verse that helped me to start my podcast and everything. And for me, I do feel like a microphone

does hold you accountable in a lot of ways. And because I do like talk for a living, I like speak in front of a microphone all the time, whether it's on stage or on a podcast or any kind of interview. I feel like what I'm putting in, if I know what comes in, comes out, then I need to be really intentional

with what I'm putting in because if I'm not careful, then there's no telling what I can say in any given moment on a bad day, on a tired day, in an interview that's going south or whatever. And so this verse has been pivotal for me. Luke six says, the good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of the evil treasure produces evil,

for out of the abundance of the heart, his mouth speaks. And that was a big verse for me when it comes to language and cussing because I know if I listen to things, I'm just more prone to do it. I'm such an imitator by nature. We all are, you know? So when you hear it, for better or for worse, it's just going to come out. It will enter into your vocabulary, enter into your language. But when I don't listen to things like that, watch things like that, I don't even think about it, you know?

When I'm putting good treasure in my heart, I just notice that's just coming out. When you're putting bad, you're gonna start noticing that start to come out. And that's been a big one for me that's been helpful. Yeah. Well, I think too, it's like it, for me, it all just comes down to like your witness and you just talked about the TV shows.

It's like, what is something simple that can separate you from the world and just by you being a witness and it's like, well, if like not using bad language, if something as simple as that can distinguish you from the rest of the world and make people be interested in why you don't do that, then to me it's like, why would you not pursue that?

It's like- It's like a simple way to be visibly set apart. If it's not edifying, if it's like, if it doesn't add to anything, then, and you're able to get in conversations with the film crew simply because you don't cuss, like, why would you not wanna pursue that from the standpoint of, like,

it helps you to evangelize to people by having good language. Yeah. You know? Just by being Yeah, just by being different. Just by being different. Yeah, that's good. It's that question of, how can we look different than the world? And for me, I think your language is one of those things.

Yeah, I think that's good. And I think people are drawn to that, like what we've talked about. It's so true. Just as you were reading that scripture, it made me think about Matthew 12, 33. It's either make a tree good and it's fruit good, or make the tree bad and it's fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you speak good

when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. I tell you, on the day of judgment, people will give account for every careless word they speak." Like that's like, whoa, okay. For by your words, you will be justified, and by your words, you will be condemned. So, I mean, it's pretty like powerful words do mean

something and it's coming out because it's coming out of the heart. And that's pretty much all the New Testament, Jesus's words and what Jesus was trying to say is like, it's not about the letter of the law. It's not about like this word or this word. It's what's coming out of your heart. And your words are a reflection of that. Your words are the fruit of what is coming out of the inside.

So true. I was thinking about Romans 12, like do not be conformed by the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind. And so much of cussing is like culturally accepted, so it's like, oh, okay, I'm just gonna go into what culture's doing.

I'm listening to this, I'm watching this. It's in my mind. No one cares if I say it. But when you are transformed by the renewal of your mind, and when you have good things in your heart and good things come out, people really do notice and blesses other people. And to the point of where it's mattering,

the Bible literally says, your tongue holds the power of life and death. Like that is a huge responsibility, you know? I mean, it's just like every word you say, you're gonna be held accountable for. And I just don't think we think about that a lot. I mean, what does it say in Proverbs, like where words are many, sin is not absent.

It's like, we're not very intentional all the time with how we use our words. And I think that, like we talked about testing earlier, it can just be so careless, you know? Like when we say a war movie, it makes a little bit more sense. Not that that's the best word to use, but at the same time, like it's a very intense moment.

Or as you're watching a movie where it's just annoyingly, flippantly, because it's careless. We're just doing it just to say, yeah, just to make it like a rated R movie. It's careless. Just by using bad language. When it's like, your words actually matter. Your words really can make it or break it.

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If you don't like it, they'll refund your order. No questions asked. That's drinkelement.com slash woe. That's D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-T dot com slash woe. But I think we do have to like remember that, like you said, it is still cultural, you know, some of these things. And I think that's where, like, I do see there's a difference in like cussing and a word that's like, okay,

it's acceptable in the South, but are acceptable in like, one country, but in another country. So even like the word like bloody, like in, like in England or London, I think that's like a cuss word, but we wouldn't even think about that or whatever. Or it's like, certain words are just cultural. And I do think that there is something to like, it's silly, it's a cuss word because our culture has deemed it that or whatever. And there's a difference in that. And there's a difference in like cursing. And cursing to me, I actually read a book one time it was a book about the one about I and Herce Ali.

Yes. And she grew up in Somalia and like the way way some of the people in her life spoke, it was truly cursing someone, calling down damnation on a person or on people. Yeah, so I think that that is one of the things that the Bible specifically speaks against, is cursing somebody. And that's a whole different thing than like saying a word that is culturally inappropriate. And I think, I think like we talked about,

like there can be a witness in not saying those words that are culturally inappropriate, but that's a whole different thing than like actually like cursing somebody. I mean, Taya and Ben have told us this, but in Australia, one of like the worst words is the word rooted. That's like, she says like the F word to us.

Well, it really is unfortunate because rooted is not only not a bad word here, but it's actually used in a good term, especially a lot in the church. So like the other day we're at church and we see this van and literally the van is like wrapped and it says rooted in Christ with like trees like rooted deep. And he takes a picture and says it to Taya and Ben, they're like, no, that's the worst thing ever.

Like, why would anyone do that? You know, like cultural, like, yeah, it means something good here. It means something bad. So like, yes, you can't, I think that's why all messy conversations, you have to address like that kind kind of self-righteousness and judgmental spirit of just getting so hung up on the one thing where it's like, okay, it's not just about the words, it's about where they come from in the heart. And I will say, I think a lot of cussing

does come from a bad place. So let's get into that. Is cussing a sin? For me, personally, when we asked ourselves this question, is cussing a sin? For me personally, when we asked ourselves this question, is cussing a sin? I was like, no, I don't think cussing is a sin. Do I cuss? No, but I wouldn't say it's like sin.

And then Christian, you had a really good point to that. Yeah, I mean, I just said, I do think it is sinful because of the things we've talked about, like let no obscure talk come out of your mouth, like put away all talk that's filthy, Colossians three. I'm not gonna read the whole thing, but like put away anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another.

So it's this idea of like, yes, we are called to be set apart. And I just, for me, and this is just from personal testimony and also just things I've seen, I do think that most of the time we use words that are bad. It is because it's either out of anger or to fit into people please, out of fear, which I'm not saying fear is necessarily always sinful,

but sometimes when you find yourself living in it, it maybe can be a lack of trust or peace or whatever. But the thing for me, it is the tension because it's, you know, James 4 talks about he who knows the right thing to do and fails to do it for him that is sin. So that verse is super convicting for me, but then for someone else,

it might seem like a license to like, oh, well, I don't feel bad, so I'm going to do it. But I'm kind of rambling here. But then it is tough because it is societal, because then I would argue if I'm at church on Sunday and the pastor's cussing the whole sermon, then it's like, that'd be weird, right? But then for someone that's, then I would argue someone in the congregation that doesn't think cussing is wrong, I would even probably say that that person would think that's not the right context to be using words like that.

Well, I think that's where it kind of goes to that inappropriate things. There's some words that are just like appropriate or inappropriate for certain situations. And like, I remember when Rebecca first moved here, there were a few words that she said that like, we deem as cuss words, you know, like we don't say, but she learned English in Taiwan and didn't realize that those were words

that so she would say those words, you know, with y'all with little kids and she had to, we were like, oh, well that's like actually not appropriate to say here. She's like, oh, she had no idea, you know, but actually I sent you some of the day whenever I knew we were talking about this conversation, because I was reading about, it was, let me pull it up real quick. It was just an article, and it was actually about, I think it was about like the clothes we wear,

and it wasn't from a Christian perspective at all. It was talking about like nudity in public, and this kind of modesty, and all this kind of stuff. And she actually, she brings it up as basically language. And like there's language that we exist and use today that are highly offensive or inappropriate. Sometimes they're fine to say, but sometimes they're not. So like if a coworker, she says,

if a coworker says these words at work, then we'd be like, well, I can't believe you said that. But if you said it in no setting, it'd be fine. Same for like modesty. Like if you come to work in a bikini, it'd be like, whoa, that's totally inappropriate. But if you wear a bathing suit at the beach, it's appropriate, you know?

So I do think there are some words that are that way. But also, like you said, also in the same way, it's like you don't use them because it isn't appropriate or it isn't culturally acceptable. Yeah. You talked about the microphone. That's just kind of how I think about it. Because I think, OK, for me, I feel

like if someone who listens to my podcast all the time watch my sermons, and if I meet them, and I just casually cuss, it would be like, whoa. That doesn't really align up that you were like. Whereas like for me, whenever I talk to speakers and people that I respect and watch on stage and then like they just casually cuss, it's weird to me, I'm like, I don't like that,

because it just feels like you shouldn't. Because if you're not gonna say it on stage, don't say it backstage. So for me, I feel like the integrity of like, I'm not gonna use words here that I wouldn't use in my friendships, that I wouldn't use with my family. I think that's a really good point. And I live like that too.

Like I feel like whatever I want you to see me in private, you would see me in public too. I don't try to like live a different life in private or in public. So I'm not saying that. I guess I'm saying more like something like you might talk about in front of your kids that you wouldn't talk about.

You talk about among adults, but you wouldn't talk about it for your kids. I'm talking about more in that regard, as appropriate, inappropriate. But yes. But some people do think that though. Like some people actually in having this conversation, I talked to friends who said, well, I do around some people

and not around others because I'm trying to be respectful. And to me, I'm like, I don't know that that's, yes, it's respectful, but also I think there's an integrity to it too of I'm not going to say something. You're not going to be surprised by what I say. I'm not gonna feel like a different person to you in one setting that I am in another. I think like, who I am here is who I'm gonna be anywhere.

If I was at a party, I'd be saying the same things, acting the same way. And I think when you get to that point in your life, like the new self in Christ, it's just so freeing because you're not hiding from a past version of you and you're not hiding from another version of you. You know what I mean? Like, I'm gonna watch my mouth like that.

I think that's really, really important. And I think like we talked about that before about like drinking alcohol or anything like that. Like, I don't like that whole mindset of like, oh, do it here and don't do it there because of this or that. I do really feel like it's really important. You're't do it there because of this or that. I do really feel like it's really important. Be confident.

Be confident, like, yes, I'm not gonna do something I'm trying to hide from somebody else. Now, yeah, like we talked about at the beginning, like if a cuss word slips out, it might slip out because of some external factor or whatever, but it's not who I am or what you would expect. I'm not gonna, you're not gonna like be surprised by like, oh, I'm all of a sudden,

oh, I'm a big cusser and you didn't know it. Yeah, I think it's like being marked by that. Because that's the, I think that's the part that I didn't want to do the conversation because for me it is tough. It's like, is it wrong or is it sinful? It's like, because somebody, it's the speed limit. It's like, if I go 10 over, is that wrong or is it sinful? It's like, because somebody, it's the speed limits. Like if I go 10 over, is that wrong

or is it like inherently sinful that I'm disobeying the law? And I just, so I just spoke at that church in Athens this past weekend and we were kind of talking about this cussing stuff and I was like, for me, the way I look at it, it's like, if I go up there and do this 40 minute Q&A and I'm like one way, right? And then I walk off stage and the pastor's like,

oh man, that was so great. And if I'm like, oh man, I was so bleep and nervous. Then it's like, well, everything you just did, like there's a dichotomy. But what if you were in an environment where they're like, oh, that's fine, that's not. But I'm saying, that's for me, James 4. In Australia, people cuss more.

Yeah. I'm saying that's me. That's me, James 4. For him, it is the sin. So for me, it's like, in my own conscious, it's like, that doesn't line up with who I am because of what I did in my past life. Drinking is a good example of this because to me, I don't think drinking is a sin. I think getting drunk is a sin that I don't think I know. That's what the Bible says, you know, Jesus and his friends and disciples drank wine, but there was a clear, do not get drunk, you

know? So, but I don't really drink a lot. I drink on occasion, like every now and then when we're out at dinner, I'll get like a glass of wine. But whenever we kind of started in this like, okay, well if I'm gonna drink wine at dinner, and then what if someone sees me that, would that feel weird? And I was like, no, I don't think it's weird because Jesus drank wine, I'm never like crossing the line, maybe show people a respectful way to do it.

But then as far as like actual like drinks, like different things like that, I was like, maybe I'll have one on a vacation, you and I are on a vacation somewhere, but I'm not, that's not a casual part of my life. I'm not really ordering them at dinner. I think that's like where context is appropriate in some cases.

It's never okay in any context to get drunk. Maybe this place, I would have a drink with you, you know, in the Bahamas, but like, I'm not, that's not really a pattern in my life. So I think those are some where you say, here it might be appropriate, there it's not appropriate. There is a place that gets us in. So it's like, maybe it's appropriate to say appropriate

in some manner to say these words in an Australian environment, not as much here. It's never though, okay to cuss someone out. It's never okay to curse someone. Like there are like things that the Bible says. And we should get to some of those places. I know that you read like kind of four things. All right, fam, let's talk about something

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or even just dreaming about the future, I cannot recommend Covenant Eyes enough. Go to covenanteyes.com slash Sadie to learn more and start your journey towards a healthier, stronger marriage today. That's covenanteyes.com slash Sadie. So this morning when I was like kind of like studying this, which I love these misrepresentations because it kind of forces us to study.

And there is definitely places where the Bible talks about it is enlisted as a sin, and there's four of them that I kind of like spotted and wanted to bring out. I thought, so it's like these four areas like definitely would be, the Bible would call sinful, and so the first one is obscene talk. Like there's so you mentioned Colossians three,

also Ephesians five talks about don't let anything, any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth, but only what is uplifting. So like obscene, and it talks about, it does talk about that kind of in reference to sexual immorality and things like that. So I think that would be a place where it calls it out specifically.

The other is in anger. Ephesians 4 and James three. If y'all wanna just kind of like look these up, but definitely, you know, talk about, let's see. I think I'll read James here in a little bit. Four, 30, let me see, it says. It's 28. Therefore having put away falsehood,

let each one of you speak the truth of his neighbor for we are members of one another. Be angry and do not sin, and do not let the sun go down on your anger, and give no opportunity to the devil. Then it goes on to say, let no corrupting talk come out of your mouth, but only such as is good for building up and fits the occasion that may give grace for those who hear." That's the one I was referring to, give grace to those who hear. This is the last part I couldn't remember. Then it goes on, let all bitterness and wrath

and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another. So this is more just in reference to anger cussing people or cursing people in anger. Clearly that's not the way we should live as Christians. It's not the fruit of the spirit.

This is kind of interesting, just in the messiness of this conversation, I'll say I remember back in high school, like a lot of people used the B word, like they called people that. And I remember thinking that was not like a super bad word, you know, like you deem what words you think are worse than others.

Oh really, I think it's a bad one. No, now I'm saying, what I'm saying now is like, I think I didn't think it was that bad because everyone said it. Everyone's, oh, it's just a female dog. I know, but let me say now, I think it's one of the worst because that's completely opposite of building someone up.

You are belittling someone, like you are talking to someone's character and offending them. And so it's, or you're gossiping about them. So like you're in line with like actual sin when you're calling someone that, because that is unwholesome talk. That is not building someone up.

That is not gracious words. That is not kind words. Like, and so it's just interesting because because I didn't think it was that bad because so many people used it, but now in the context of studying the Bible, I'm like, no, it's actually absolutely wrong to say something like that. And it's not like a small thing to do.

It's actually a really big deal. Well, the verse that you read in Matthew earlier talking about careless words, I think that, because then again, too, at the same time, I don't think it's the same thing for us with heaven or hell. We don't have the authority to deem that. And I think sometimes it's maybe similar to sin, because it's like, for a careless word, for instance, it's like, if we're on a plane and there's bad turbulence, and you say the

S word and it comes out, It's like, is that a careless word or would a careless word be more like if I'm just flippantly in casual conversations just throwing out words just to say cuss words, you know? So it's like, what? To me, that's where, like, that's a good point because that's why I think when you asked me of cussing as a sin, I was like, no, because in the moments I've ever felt tempted in the past two years to cuss, it was an actual moment of pain, like literally giving birth to a child

or the aftermath of child, like just pain. So like, I didn't think, like it's not coming from anger, it's not coming from fear, it's not coming against someone, it's like a response to pain. Is it careless? Yes. Could I use a better word? Yes. Does it need a better word? Yes.

Does it need to be said? No. But it didn't feel rooted in something wrong, you know? Yeah. And so, yeah, then there are other times. Like these kind of four things where you're like, okay, what are rooted in things that are wrong? Like obscenity, yes. Anger, like at someone.

Was obscenity, like... Well, it references the two places, or Colossians 3 and Ephesians 5, and it talks about obscene talk, in reference, I think, to sexual immorality and sexual conversations. Crudeness. Yeah, crude. Yeah, crude.

I think the F word is always wrong, because it's crude. Yeah, it's very, exactly. It's an inappropriate word in all contexts, you know? Yeah. Okay, so the next one that I have heard and I remember as a kid, people use this very flippantly

and it always bothered me because there is actual, real scripture against it. And even like this Jesus's words is swearing an oath and like swearing on something or swearing because it just sucks. You were really vague on us never swearing. or swearing, cause it just sucks. You were really vague on us never swearing. Never swearing, never saying like, I swear, because this is Jesus's words.

Like, again, you have heard that it was said to those of old, you shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord which you have sworn. But I say to you, do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by earth, for it is the footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. And do not take an oath by your head,

for you cannot make one hair white or black. Let what you say be simply yes or no. Anything more than this comes from evil." So I think that has to do with kind of that like flippant talk or, you know, swearing an oath on something is definitely, you know, Jesus' words and James, Jesus' brother, James 5-12 talks about like, don't swear by anything, you know,

let's, you're a S-B-S and you're no-b-o. And then the fourth is the Lord's name in vain. And that's, you know, a commandment is not to use the Lord's name in vain, but I think people actually do take that very, I think there's a lot of ways you can use the Lord's name in vain. I think one specifically is just like

loosely saying the Lord's name whenever like, there should be respect when you talk about the Lord. It's like you wouldn't, you wouldn't like say a cuss word and say my name. Like your mom's name or your dad's name. Every action movie, it's like if something happens and they're like, oh, JC. It's like, yeah, like they always say it's,

it's always like a casual. Yeah, it's just like disrespectfully. Jesus Christ comes out in anger. Jesus Christ is chosen born. Using, yeah, like think about if you were to do that for like just your husband's name or your dad's name or your wife's name or your, you know, like, it's just, it just disrespectful and God is.

That's a thing. Yeah, so I think there's one way. And then other ways I think you could use the Lord's name in vain is like, just like be like claiming Christianity and actually being hypocritical, you know, like living a life that's opposite, but claiming it in public or living a life that's contradictory to your faith, I think is using the Lord's name in vain.

Like a preacher that's like, oh, I'm a preacher and I'm preaching about Jesus, but I'm living a whole other way. I think that's a way that you would do that. People do get really sensitive about this. And like, for instance, we've had guests on the podcast who are like believers and strong believers and they'll be like, oh my God, you know, and like they don't think that's bad

whereas like for me, I wouldn't say, oh my God, but I say, oh my gosh, and I say, OMG. Yeah. So like, but I'm not thinking like I'm taking the Lord's name in vain because when I say OMG, I'm thinking, oh my gosh. So for one time I posted on Facebook, it's like years ago, and I was actually talking about LO tour

back before we did a conference. And I was like, OMG, we're about to hit the road, so exciting, like come out for worship, all the different things. And this woman commented and was like, I cannot believe that you would take the Lord's name in vain and just starts like, like pretty, like roasting my character, you know?

And then my great grandma, Mama Jo comes back at this lady and was like, are you seriously going to miss the whole point of this post that she's hosting nights for young people to worship Jesus and like preach because she said, OMG. You're worried about three letters. And she's like, I think that you're missing the heart here. And I think sometimes we do that

when it comes to this kind of stuff, like we go so zeroed in, you know, it's like, ooh, they said this, they do that, blah, blah. And again, it's not about that. Like when I say OMG, am I taking the Lord's name in vain? If I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I would say no. But like, if I'm gonna say Jesus Christ out of the context of worshiping Jesus Christ,

I think that is taking the Lord's name out of vain. It's interesting though, because I thought about this, I always say like, holy moly or like holy cow, you know? And people are like, cows aren't holy. I'm like, okay. But also, then, you know, all the worship songs and in Revelation, it's like, we will forever be saying, holy, holy, holy are you, Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come.

I'm like, well, I don't really want to say anything else is holy. So I even feel like in my own language, I don't want to say that, even though that is a more thing in my vocabulary because I've always been like, oh, holy moly, you know? But I'm like mindful of that. Like, okay, I shouldn't be so flippant with that.

Not that I think like my heart's bad or it's wrong necessarily, but I'm like, if forever and all of eternity, I'm gonna say holy, holy, holy, are you Lord God Almighty, then yeah, I don't really wanna use that in other contexts. So I think, yeah, you gotta be like, you gotta use your own. It's your heart, it's back to your heart.

I had a Bible teacher in eighth grade who I can remember her saying this because for some reason during that time period, bull was like a thing. If you said something, I'd go bull. That was like the thing. And we would say what comes after that, we'd say bull. And she'd go, you know what comes after bull.

And we'd be like bull crap, bull shavaki, whatever. You know, we'd like make up other words that came after bull. But like, it can get really silly if we're gonna get ticky. Or can you say BS, but you can't say this. Or can you say, you know. I have a personal recent story on this.

So we were at Passion Conference and it was Levi Lesko and his daughter. I was talking to them. We were having a great conversation. I literally told his daughter, hey, I love that you're getting into ministry. She had just done this whole event. That was awesome.

She did a Q&A with Levi. I was like, if you ever need to reach out and just want to chat or any way I can encourage you, I want to give you my number, it was great. Then Crowder comes over. And Crowder's so funny. He's just so crazy. And Levi asked him driving advice

for what way Olivia should get back to her campus. And Crowder goes, oh, I don't have a car, blah, blah, blah. And I looked at him and I said, BS, you don't have a car. I've seen your car, you have a nice car. And then I felt so bad, I said BS. And I don't even say BS, And I don't even say BS. I don't even say it. But literally, that's all I can say to him

because I was like, you're lying. That's not true. That's BS. And I don't know if Levi and Olivia really felt offended by that, but I felt like it was awkward. Like, oh, that was a weird thing for me to say because I don't really say stuff like that.

So I didn't say anything about it the moment passed. I still- But you said the letters. Like that's the thing. Yeah, I said the letters. Yeah, I said the letters. I still haven't said anything to them about it, but I have asked Christian like two times,

should I text Levi? Should I tell him sorry? He's like, no, like, I'm sure Levi says BS. Like it's not that big of a deal. Like there's a whole game called BS, but still. And I think that's the thing is like, we have to be careful because it's an easy way for us to divide ourselves.

You know, like to say like, oh, you said that and I can't say that. I mean, even the words like- It can get very religious. It can be a very judgmental spirit. If you get there, it's like, I mean, I can think of, I'm like, I keep thinking of words that like, I'm like, should I say it?

Cause I don't know if people are listening or whatever, but that are not cuss words to us. Like we say that and we're fine with it. But other people might think they could divide or they could divide, use that to devise and say like, oh, you said this or you can't say that. People probably will do this podcast. I mean,

Hey, okay, Martin, let's try one. Remember big. You got it. The Ford it's a big deal event is on. How's that? A little bigger. The Ford It's a Big Deal event is on. How's that? A little bigger. Ahem. The Ford It's a Big Deal event.

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Visit your Toronto area Ford store or Ford.ca today. Whenever I asked Bella to come on, Bella's like, no, I don't want all the hate that we'll get from Christians. And I said, oh, well, we will get hate. I was like, every messy conversation we do. But every messy conversation is also people's favorite ones and the ones that we learn from the most

and ones we dive into the Bible the most. So it's like, it's unfortunate how divided we can be when we're literally reading scripture. But at the same time, these are important conversations because I told Christian and Bella and Jacob this, I was like, the truth is most people who listen to this podcast probably do cuss. And that's why we're having this conversation. Why does it matter to have these conversations? Because we all go through our day to day life.

We all hear cuss words. Let's talk about as a believer what our response should be to it. Yeah, well I think the thing, I think we do this probably the most with sexual stuff. It's like how close can we get to that line to where it's sinful? And so for me it's like, how close can I get to that line to where it's sinful? And so for me, it's like, in my life,

I'm like, I don't want to live my life thinking it's this sinful, how close can I, it's like, just live your life, let God redeem it, and just try to bear fruit to the Spirit. It's like, I don't want to be like, is this sinful? Because then it's just like, you're just on a hamster wheel's like, I don't want to be like, is this sin? Cause then it's just like, you're on a hamster wheel of like, either trying to please people

or like, you're just being worried all the time. It's like, don't try to get to this line and teeter it just to say, you know, it's not sinful. It's like, just let no unwholesome talk come out of your mouth. Like, be genuine to others, be, speak words that are edifying, and live set apart. That's what we're called to do as believers. We're supposed to look different in the world. And for me, I think language is one of those things. So it's like, I don't think we should be asking

that question of like, how close can I get to where it's sinful or like, living my life, always asking like, is this a sin? Because it's sinful or like living my life always asking like, is this a sin? Because it's like, if you're asking yourself is that a sin, then there might be the Holy Spirit convicting you to stop doing what you're doing. So yeah. And that's good.

Yeah, I would love to read James 3 as we begin to close out. And then if you have anything else to say, please add to it. But this is so good. And I think, you know, as you're processing hearing this conversation, maybe you currently struggle with cussing.

Maybe it's something you've never thought about very much. Maybe it's something that you absolutely do not do. And this conversation has been really interesting to you. I just want to read James 3, because we have been commanded to tame our tongue. You know, the word is clear on that. So whatever context you view is important to tame your tongue, Jesus is very clear in His word.

We read Matthew, we read Luke, and then also in James. Like, it's very important the words we say. So James 3 is literally called the taming of the tongue. I'm going to read James 3, starting in verse 2. For we all stumble in many ways, and if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, also able to bridle his whole body. If we put bits into the mouth of horses so that they obey us,

we guide their whole body as well. Look at the ships also. Though they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are guided by a very small rudder wherever the will of the pilot directs. So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great things. How great a forest is set abla the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great things. How great a forest is set ablaze by such a small fire, and the tongue is a

fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell. For every kind of beast and bird and reptile and sea creature can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil full of deadly poison. With it we bless the Lord, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God.

From the same mouth comes blessing and cursing, my brothers, these things ought not be so. Does a spring pour forth from the same opening, both of fresh and salt water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water." So I feel like that kind of sums up like everything

we've talked about and everything we've said. If you are someone, and this is kind of when I went back to the integrity of something, if you're someone and your words like, bless the Lord, you are worshiping God, you are a believer in Christ, you've confessed Jesus Lord and Savior of life, and then you were to cuss people, or you like, that doesn't line up. That's that, that those two things do not go hand in hand. That's like fresh water and salt water. Evil treasure should not be coming out of a good heart, you know, from the heart.

So the mouth should speak the good treasures you put in. So the good treasures are gonna come out. So I do think it is a direct call to Christians to tame our tongue, to watch what we say, to put in the right kind of things. And those kinds of things are gonna come out. It says in the word so often too, like our word should bless the Lord.

You know, like, think about the Psalms, like the blessings and the worship and all that kind of stuff. It should be worthy of the calling we've been called to walk in. So yeah, it does matter. It should feel weird when words like that come out of your mouth. It shouldn't feel right. You should go, oh, that wasn't right. That didn't feel right. Maybe repent for it. Say, God, I'm sorry. Carry on. Try to be better. It shouldn't just become a casual thing in our lifestyle as a Christian. Yeah. I think that's so good. I think y'all summed it up really well. Yeah. I'll just, I wasn't going to say this, but yeah, I think we're all called to live above approach. And that's what Paul tells Timothy. And two, if you finish listening to this and

you still do not think cousin is wrong, that's fine, that's your opinion, that's great. But I just would challenge you because I think sometimes it can maybe be a slippery slope to where you look up and a simple thought like that, it does impact what you listen to, what you watch. Because if you say that's not a sin and then you look up and you're watching things

that are inappropriate, then I think they can end up infiltrating your life and end up being a bigger thing in the music that you listen to. So I think sometimes it is bigger than just, are the words wrong? It's more so like, by you saying the words aren't wrong, you end up putting things in your life that aren't wrong, you end up putting things in your life that aren't

beneficial or healthy. Back to what you said earlier, I think if you don't think your pastor should say it, you shouldn't say it. You know, like, if you're like, oh, that's weird that my pastor is saying that, but I'm saying it. It's like, you're called to be a minister of the gospel too. So you're actually called to the same thing that your pastor is called to. You're ambassadors of Christ.

You are a disciple of Him. You have confessed Jesus with your tongue as the Lord and Savior of your life. And so if you don't think He should do it, you shouldn't do it either. To get placed to fall. But I think this is a good study. Just one more scripture about the importance of our words.

And so I do think that this is important conversation because words do matter. And there's a lot of scripture that kind of backs that up. But this is Matthew 15, and it says, it's not what goes into the mouth that defies a person. This is talking about, there's all this debate at that time period about what you could eat

or what or whatever. And it's like, it's not what goes into the mouth. It's what comes out that defies a person, what comes out of the mouth. So what comes out actually does really matter. It goes on to say, do you not see that whatever goes into the stomach and into the mouth passes into the stomach and expelled?

Great thought. But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart. And this is what defiles a person. For out of the heart comes evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, death, false witness, and slander. These are what defile a person, but to eat with unwashed hands is not defile anyone.

And so I think that, yeah, it's just, we're back to the heart. You know, it's like what comes out of you, whether it's obscenity or anger or swearing or using the Lord's name in vain or any of that, it's like, it's a fruit of what is coming out of you. So if you work on your heart and try to align your heart with the Spirit of God, with the fruits of His Spirit,

and then that's what will come out. Great. It's good. It's so good. you