WHOA That's Good Podcast - A Messy Conversation on Finding Your Identity | Sadie, Christian & Korie

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

Where are you finding your identity? And what do you actually value? Sadie is joined by her mom, Korie, and her husband, Christian, to talk about finding our identity. Christian shares his perspective on something we idolize versus something in which we find our identity — are they the same or different? Korie and Sadie explore the notion of identity and wonder if this is more a Western culture question; plus the bigger questions about our online identities versus what's true in our real lives. Then a biblical look at the danger of finding our identity in anything that is temporary, rather than knowing and trusting God and His Word as the ultimate identity for any believer.  This Episode of WHOA That's Good is Sponsored By: https://fastgrowingtrees.com — Get 15% off your first purchase with code WHOA at checkout! https://thechosenlastsupper.com — Preorder your tickets for the 3-part theatrical release today! https://covenanteyes.com/sadie — Visit the website to earn more and start your journey toward a healthier, stronger marriage today. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Happy Monday everybody! We are gonna have a messy conversation which are really one of the podcast's favorites honestly. These are some of my favorites. These are people's favorites to listen to and I have two very important guests. I have my husband Christian. Hello. Hello. I have two very important guests. I have my husband, Christian. Whoop whoop. Hello, hello. I have my mother, Kay Swag. Whoop whoop. We still need our live audience. We do.

2025, that is a goal. We're gonna have a live audience. To at least do one podcast with a live audience. That's true, yeah. Let's do it. Hold me to it. Part of my New Year's resolution was being on a message conversation with you.

So here I am. Well, we haven't done one in a while either. It's been a long time. It's been fun to come back to do it and add Christian. And I gave you the context in which to provide a messy conversation. So that's why we invited you to be a part of it. Christian said, I'm not doing this if y'all are going to team up on me. I said, we're not going to team up on you.

We need you in this, though. We need your input. Because that's what makes it messy, is that we have different opinions. True. But this is actually going to be a great conversation, because we're going to talk about the topic of identity. And obviously, loaded topic, which

is why it's going to be a messy conversation, because we're going to have a lot of different takes on maybe finding our identity in different things. And it's really sweet too because I think last year it was one of my friends, she asked me if I would do a little clip for her social media about finding your identity in God. And she was like, I feel like you're the identity girl. Like you have talked so much about identity and it's so helpful. And I thought that was really sweet that she said that.

And I was like, wow, that's really cool that, you know, a lot of the messages I've put was really sweet and that she said that and I was like wow that's really cool that you know a lot of the message I put out really are around identity. Sometimes it's intentional and it's like literally an identity message but I think woven through pretty much every message I do talk about your identity in Christ and live original it's like literally live original who you were created to be. So I'm very passionate about identity. But the reason we're having this as a messy conversation is because on a previous podcast, it was actually the end of the year podcast

with Christian, Bella, and John Luke. We were just casually going through all of the different pieces of advice that we got last year. And it got to one about identity. And I said, have you ever gotten your identity wrapped up in something that you did? And if you've watched this podcast, you'll know what we're talking about. If you haven't, go back and listen to it. It ended up being like, I guess a 10-15 minute discussion after that about identity in general because myself and

then John Luke and Bella all felt like, yes, we have at times gotten our identity wrapped around things that we did. And Christian felt like that wasn't really his story. He was like, I don't know that I have my identity and anything else. And you viewed it more as like an idolization of something, not an identity. And anyways, it led us into this big conversation

on the podcast. But then after the podcast ended, it led us into this big conversation on the podcast, but then after the podcast ended, it led into an even longer conversation about identity, which then mom heard about it and was like, so what are we gonna time out with identity? We all start talking about it and then we're like, let's film a messy conversation around this. And I'm really excited to jump into it.

But Christian, do you wanna explain a little bit as to why you felt, or Christian, do you want to explain a little bit as to why you felt or if you do feel like, you know, you really truly have not gotten your identity wrapped into what you do? Yeah, well, that's good. Yeah, I am. We're doing this conversation because I guess my viewpoint was a little off kilter than other people's, which is okay. But I think for me,

because I think, because I asked you the question of, do you think idolizing something and finding your identity in it are the same thing? And I think that they can be synonymous, but I think they can also be different things. So for me, I mean, like there are times where I can, I feel like I can find my identity, whether it's being your husband or exercising or being the fit guy or being a dad or whatever, I think I

more so just view it as, do I idolize that over finding my identity? So for me, if I, for instance, I suppose, I like Auburn football. So sometimes I feel like I can maybe idolize that in a sense of like, do we win or lose? But like, I wouldn't say I find my identity in like being an Auburn football fan. So I think sometimes identity can be like a buzzword, which might not be true.

But I think sometimes it can be finding your identity in it where like, maybe it's not that deep. Maybe it's more so just like you find yourself idolizing that at times. Because I feel like identity for me is more of like a core, like this is who I am, you know? So I think like whether it's with working out, I feel like sometimes I idolize exercising, but I don't necessarily think about it from this standpoint of like, I find my identity and like what I look like. I don't know, I feel like they are synonymous,

but I feel like sometimes they can be two different things at times. So. Yeah, okay, let me think about that because. Cause I was like with really hunting, like as I was asking, say that like, if you maybe sometimes find yourself idolizing hunting, or do you like find your identity as a hunter?

Which I know he might struggle with that. But something like that of like idolizing something and finding your identity, I think they can be some of the same, I think they can be the same thing, but I also think they can be different at times. I would agree that like, I do think identity and idolization

could be the same thing because you're idolizing a certain thing even within yourself, it could be within yourself and that would be this identity that you're idolizing basically. But also it can be outside of yourself. You could idolize something like Auburn football but that doesn't mean you feel like my identity is wrapped up.

Now, if you were the Auburn football quarterback, your identity could be that. And then when that's taken away, what do you have? Or the coach. And you lose games, and it's to you or a failure. Like, I love what John Luke was saying in that podcast. He was like, it's like if your identity's in it, if your identity's not in it, then you lose the game

and it's fine, y'all lost the game. If your identity's in it, then it's like, you lost, you're a failure. It like shapes who you are. Which, this is a good point, because when I was talking to you about like, okay, well say that you broke your legs and you weren't able to work out, would it bother you that like you weren't as to work out, would it bother you that you weren't as fit

and people didn't say that to you or whatever? But a better example would be like, if you, because this is true, when you lose a game and it's like, if you say, I suck because I lost the game. Well, do you really? No. But did that happen in the game? Yeah, so do you find some sense of your identity whether you win or lose games?

Yeah, I think, I think, no, I agree with that. I think there can be that. I just think I just more so, I don't know, I think just with my walk, I just, I just kind of more so view whether it's the same thing or not. I think I just more so view that as like, am I idolizing this? I just, I don't like, even with sports, it's like sometimes I idolize winning, but I don't necessarily think about it like, I find my identity in winning. Yeah.

I don't know, I just don't, I just don't think about. I guess if you think about like, what is to idolize, like putting something on a pedestal, to put something at the top of like importance in your life. So yes, that does make sense. But also like, I think you can find your identity in things like, for instance, I mean,

I can say things about my life for sure. But now that we're talking about, since we're talking about you, we'll talk about you. We'll get to all of our identity struggles. Yes, we all have identity struggles. But just thinking about like, okay, that first time y'all lost in tennis, because like, you all have a couple identity of like, we, that first time y'all lost in tennis. Cause like, there's a, you have a couple identity

of like, we don't lose together. Like this is like part of our identity as a couple that we don't lose together. And then when y'all lost, cause it had been like, y'all had been together like a year before you lost at anything. Cause y'all are- A year and a half, but who is counting?

Yeah, exactly. And then when you lost, did that like, was that like a Bruce your identity? Cause like, oh no, like we're winners. It was. We win together. And then when you don't, how does, does that feel like, you could say, okay, we idolized winning,

but also did it feel a little bit like your identity that like we always win, you know? Yeah. And I don't, and I don't discuss, I do think like, if you look at it, like, yes, we can win, you know? Yeah, and I don't just, cause I do think like if you look at it like, yes, I guess I can find my identity in that. I don't know, I just, for me personally, I just don't necessarily, I just view the idolization part over identity.

Yeah. That's good. I think that's fun. If I'm praying or if I'm repenting, it's like, God, I apologize for idolizing this. I don't usually use the identity part. I just don't from a spiritual aspect. Well, I think that actually really makes sense

if you look at it spiritually. I mean, that's probably is what it is really, if you go back to the 10 commandments, putting something before God, like creating idols, and that is what we do. I do think identity has become a buzzword, obviously. That's something that people talk about a lot. But I do think people have always struggled with identity.

It's just now maybe we're labeling it in a specific way and calling it that. But I would imagine if you talk to anybody from any period of time, there is that feeling like we all have that, try to place things on, place who we are on something that is temporary. And so as I was thinking about today, I was thinking about whenever I was in high school,

I remember one of my favorite scriptures was the scripture about, set your mind on things above, not on earthly things, because what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. And I was thinking about that that was like, I used to say that was my favorite scripture in high school. And I think I probably had that

because that was a temptation at that time. Whenever you're in high school, whenever you're struggling with your identity or what to put as top importance, which would also be similar to identity, you are tempted to place your mind on the things that are temporary, which would be what your identity is in this world, really. You know, identity is, I'm, say, you're in high school or whatever, I'm the artist or I'm the athlete or I'm the, you know,

the smart one or I'm the this and so, but those are all things that are actually temporary because any of that can be taken away. So if we actually idolize that or put our identity in that, then that can be taken away, then what do you have? What do you have? Friends, spring is almost here and it is time to start getting that house in your back in shape.

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You struggle, yeah. I think it's interesting because that was one of the things that we brought up on the podcast was, is this something that's like a churchy thing to say? Or is this something that's like a generational thing to say, just a buzzword? Is this something that people truly struggle with? And I really think identity has been something that,

for the history of mankind, people have probably struggled with, just because it's part of being human. Like, you're trying to figure out who you are, but I think yes, in today's culture certainly there's like more emphasis on it, but I don't think it's churchy at all. I think it's something that like as a like just a whole generation we're going through. I mean last night we were watching Survivor and there's a whole, you know, five minute thing in the episode about this girl truly struggling with her identity.

Because she's not a believer, not a Christian, and she starts talking about identity, and she's like, I'm really struggling out here because I find so much of my identity in this particular aspect of her life back at home, but that isn't being able to be seen on the island. And so she's like, who am I and how do I fit in if I don't have that side of me?

And I mean, really, really struggling. They were showing her laying down in the camp, going to sleep and you could see tears in her eyes because she just couldn't figure out who she was. And then she started thinking people don't like me because they haven't seen that side of me. But she was putting so much emphasis on a particular part of her that wasn't really who she was.

It was just what she was known by. You know, I think that's a true struggle with identity. Right, and that's like those things that are kind of like temporary are seen, but can be gone in an instant because of something, circumstances. It can be gone. So if you place your identity in that,

and then it's taken away, then who are you? Yeah. I was just thinking as you were saying that, which because I've because we started to saying okay yeah this is probably something everyone struggle with all mankind but then I started thinking actually maybe it does have more to do with kind of like Western culture and because we are so individualistic and are so you know it's about me and me time and my this and my that, where other cultures and throughout time have been more community where it's like, it's about us and

about the whole. And I was thinking about, you know, Western culture is significantly impacted by the Bible. And so you have this kind of dual thing that goes on in the Bible. There's one part that it's like, God created you, He died for you, He loves you. And there is this like individualistic piece of it that we look at like Jesus' sacrifice, it's for all, but it's also for me, you know?

But then also if you think about, through scripture, within particularly like the Jewish culture, and even now, it's like son of, son of, son of, because your heritage is so important. Who's your parents and who do you belong to and who's your family line and all that. All of that is really important. So that community aspect of it.

But then Jesus really breaks down a lot of that. He says like, sometimes, yes, you need to honor your father and mother, but also you might have to leave your father and mother because I'm at the top of it. So there is that like breakdown of, if you even find your identity in who you are in your family, if you find your identity

in your last name and any of that, like Jesus has to be at the top of all of it. Yeah, that's so good. And it's so true with the Western culture. Like I certainly think it's emphasized right now, especially with social media, because like you're creating a profile

and that profile has to represent who you are. And then you, but it's not truly who you are because it's shaped by what you think people like about you. And then people start finding their identity in the things that they know people accept, and people approve, and people like. And then that's where you get messed up, because then you're like,

well, that's the filter version of me, and that's what people fall in love with, but that's not really me. And so you try to become something that's not authentically you, and then you never really feel like you're loved for that. That's why it's like, you can't find, finding your identity in something that's not real

is not satisfying. It's not, you don't get to a true confidence because you know it's not real, you know? And I think that that was such a good point because yes, maybe we struggle with it forever. Maybe humans always did, but like certainly we do now because there is such an emphasis on like who you are, because yes, maybe we struggle with it forever, maybe humans always do, but like certainly we do now because there is such an emphasis on like who you are,

how you present yourself, and we focus so much on it. What is our Ineogrim number? What is our Myers-Briggs? What does, you know, people say about me? What is my job title? What is my position? Like, we're so wrapped up in that. What is our major?

There was something I was gonna say too to what you just said that I thought was good, but go ahead. I was just gonna say, I just think that there can be nuances to it. Cause I feel like, I feel like sometimes with identity, I can maybe find my identity in, like I said, being a husband or like being a father. But I don't really know if I think I like idolized that.

But then if on the flip side, something like hunting or working out or sports, like I think I can idolize that. But then if on the flip side, something like hunting or working out or sports, I think I can idolize that, but I don't necessarily find my identity in that. So I don't know, I feel like- That's what I think, the idolization and the identity thing really is two different things because I think the things that aren't as important to you,

you idolize, but the things that are really important to you become your identity. It's like, yes, I idolize, let's use your example, Auburn football, but at the end of the day, it's okay. I idolize working out, but at the end of the day, it's not the end of the world. But a father, a husband, that we're taking away, that would really mess with who you are.

And those are good things, but again, whenever you bring up Jesus, it's like, at the end of the day, you have to get to the place where who you are in Christ really is what your identity is. And you know what? This made me think of with Jesus, because you know what he said?

He said, you focus. And it is. God so loved the world. He gave His one and only Son. If whoever believes in Him shall not perish to have eternal life. What an invitation we're all invited to. But do you remember whenever it was like the passion prayer

thing and Louie said that something, I think John Piper said that he heard and it like changed his thinking forever. And he said that Jesus didn't die like for you, like he did it for God. And like, I thought that was actually really cool because he's like, you know how people are like, how did he know me?

And he did do it for you, but he did it for God because he was being obedient to God. So like whenever he was like in the garden going like, take this cup for me. And he was like, no, because this is what you came for. Like he did it for his love for the Father. And then in return, like it was for all of us, but like the motivation was like his obedience

and love for the Father, which is really cool. Cause it's like Jesus' identity is also like God, you know, like that's who he is. We find our identity in him as creator, as savior, as. And it was interesting because I didn't mean to do this, but whenever I was on the Duck Call Room podcast, Uncle Si kept going, young lady, tell me who you are. Who are you?

Yeah. What's happening? And he's like, who are you? I bet you can't answer that question. No one can answer that question. And I was like, I'll take a stab at it, you know? And I was like, well, when I was five years old, I didn't know who I was.

And then I said, you know, but then my dad told me like, you are an original and that's who you are. And I was like, and so I realized like, at a young age, I'm originally created by God. And like, I love God and I love people. And I try to encourage people to be confident in who they are. And I kind of stuck with that. And Uncle Si was like, that's not an answer.

And Martin was like, that was a great answer. Like, how was that not an answer? And then Martin said to Uncle Si, eventually, because he kept grilling me, he said, did you notice that like nothing she said was anything she did? It wasn't like she has a podcast. And I wasn't like, yeah, I host a Will It's Good podcast and I speak at conferences and I, even I'm a mom to Honey and Haven, which obviously is like the greatest gift.

I'm a wife to Christian, all these things. It was just like, I'm created by God and in His image, I love God, I love people. And like ultimately, at the root of like who I am, like that's it. And I think that that was cool for me, for him to point that out, because in the past,

I would have said more of the obvious things, like this is what I do, this is a part of who I am. But I think it's really a cool thing when you get to the place of like, I'm a child of God. And that kind of leads me to the scripture that I want us to talk about.

But I did this message at Passion a couple of years ago about like, who are you? Because I actually pulled Instagram and I was like, who do people or who are you? And it was very interesting. I got all different answers. A lot of, you know, finding their identity and certain things that they did.

I am this, I am that. And then a lot of people said, I am who God says I am, and that kind of answer. And I kind of led me to this place of saying, okay, you say you are who God says you are, but like, who is God to you? Because who you believe God is, is going to shape everything about who you are. Yeah. And so I went to this passage, and I only have the message version of the Bible with me today, because I've been loving it. But I'll read it, this version, because it's really powerful. But it's Matthew 16.

And it says, when Jesus arrived in the village of Ceasarea Philippi, which is a really interesting place, because this was the place where all these other gods were. So Jesus is bringing his disciples right to the middle of like a very wild place where people are finding different people to worship. And he said, what are people saying about who the son of man is? Just kind of cool that Jesus is like,

who do people say that I am? This question that we're kind of talking about, who are we? And then Simon, they replied, some say you're John the Baptist, some say Elijah, some say Jeremiah and other prophets. And he pressed them and he said, how about you? Who do you say that I am? And Simon Peter said, you are the Christ, the Messiah,

the son of the living God. And Jesus came back and said, God bless you Simon, son of Jonah. And in the actual ESV version or any other version, it says like Simon, you, you know, it says you are Simon, son of Jonah. And then it goes on to say, you didn't get that answer out of the books

or from teachers, but from my father in heaven. God himself let you in on the secret of who I really am, which is really cool because back to it, like Simon could have said, you're a teacher, you're a rabbi, you're this, but he said, you are the Messiah, the son of the living God. He goes on to say, and now I'm gonna tell you who you are, who you really are.

You are Peter, a rock, and this is the rock on which I will put together my church, a church so expansive with energy that not even the gates of hell will be able to keep out. And it's so powerful because as soon as Jesus told Peter, sorry, as soon as Jesus told Peter, sorry, as soon as Peter told Jesus who he was, you're the son of God, then Jesus looks at Peter and affirms who he is.

You are Peter, you're a rock. And I think that that is just, and then he says the mission that he's gonna be on for Christ, you know? And then it's so cool because you see Peter do that and acts. Like Peter is the front runner of the church, you know, I mean, it's just amazing. And so I think that when we talk about identity, that's such a good passage to go to, to realize like truly,

when you catch a glimpse of who God is and who he really is, like I love how he says, God told you that in the secret place. Like you've taught to my father about this, you know who I am, you will have a better understanding of who you are. And when we get to the place where, yeah, nothing that we do,

whether it's being the fitness guy, being a YouTuber, being a business person, whatever it is, we're secure in it. Mom, I do want you to share a little bit of your personal story with it, because I think, again, this is not just something young people go through. Yes, high school is certainly a time where that's more like, it's definitely hard in high school, it's hard in college, but you had a time more in adulthood that you struggle.

Yeah. When it comes to finding entertainment that's both good and good for you, the struggle is real. Christian and I are always on the lookout for content that honors, you know, our faith and I are always on the lookout for content that honors our faith and keeps us hanging on to every episode and it's hard to find that. That's one of the reasons why we love watching The Chosen.

It's the first ever multi-season drama about Jesus' life and it is so good, y'all. It makes us laugh and cry and everything in between. We've been not so patiently waiting for season five and it is almost here. All eight episodes of season five will hit theaters for a three-part release on the big screen. And this season is gonna be so amazing.

It is one of the most powerful parts of Jesus' story. It's when Jesus is welcomed to Jerusalem by the people while religious leaders plot his downfall. Loyalty is our question and Judas really gets into his villain era. Y'all, it is going to be so good. Christian got me onto The Chosen. He started watching it, was so obsessed and I wanted to watch it with him. And we saw the last season in theaters and it was so much fun.

So we are so looking forward to this. You can preorder your tickets for the three-part theatrical release at thechosenlastsupper.com. Again, that's thechosenlastsupper.com. Last Supper dot com. Again, that's the chosenlastsupper.com. Yeah, as soon as you said, you know, identity, and you're like, we were talking about identity and what we place our identity in, like this time came to my mind

because I remember specifically, and it wasn't even that long ago, where like, I think the things that you place your identity in are the things that you value to your point of like, what do you idolize? And so it's like the things that I care about and place my identity in. And so for me, that would be like being a great mom.

I really value that. I wanna be a really good mom. And so when that gets wrought, one of your kids is going through something really difficult and you're like, oh, was I not a good mom? Did I not do this for them? Was I, did I not know, know this or see this or what did I miss in this?

Then your identity, for me specifically, my identity, I realized like, oh, some of my identity is wrapped in me being a good mom and whether or not my kids are okay, you know, and if they're not okay, then does that mess with my identity? And thinking about another time when, like I, another part of my identity, I grew up in a business family,

like my dad and granddad were businessmen and they taught me. And so, you know, I thought, you know, I'm pretty good at business, you know, like there's things that are going well. You sure. Oh, well, thank you. You are. No, but there's like business. You know, like there's things that are going well. Yes, you are. Oh, well, thank you. You are.

No, but there's like, all of a sudden, there's things that are going well. And then you make some bad decisions, because we all do, you know, in business. Hired somebody that was not good at all, and someone else who I put my trust in in business, you know, really disappointed and did something really bad that I had trusted and thought was good,

then all of a sudden it's like, oh, my identity as like being good at business or having a discernment about people is rocked. And then all of a sudden I feel like, okay, maybe I don't even know myself or who I am. And that's when you start to question who you are, or our marriage, like another thing that I value

is being a good spouse, you know? And then we go through a rocky time in our marriage and I'm like, oh, maybe I wasn't as good of a wife as I thought I was. And then my identity can suffer in that. But all of those things are things that are, to some extent, temporary. You know, even though, you know,

your marriage is for a lifetime and your kids are for a lifetime and all these things. But still, you know, even though, you know, your marriage is for a lifetime and your kids are for a lifetime and all these things, but still, you know, a rocky place in your marriage can be very temporary. A child, when your children going through something difficult can be temporary or, you know, business can come or go. Like you could success or fail. If you put your success or failure in your business,

then you're gonna lose every time, you know, because you're gonna make mistakes. You're not gonna do it all perfectly. So I think those are things that it's like, yes, do I idolize them or do I put my identity in? Yes, both, honestly, because I feel like those were lessons that I had to learn to be like, okay, it's actually not about me

and it's not about my identity, God is in control of this and I have to give it to him. And I'm not perfect in any of it. I'm gonna make mistakes. And was I a great mom? Sometimes. Was I not a good mom? Yeah, sometimes.

Was I not a great mom? Sometimes too. Am I a great wife? Sometimes. Am I not a great wife? Sometimes. And same for business. But if we wrap our identity in that,

then we're going to let ourselves down. And we're going to let others down as well. That's good. I think the same for me, like, idolizing identity, the whole thing. It is what you value the most. And again, those are, I love how you say, it's temporary, sort of.

It's also the most important thing. So it's not that those things not being your identity, it's not that they have to take a lesser seat in your life. They still are the most valuable things. Your kids, your spouse, this is gonna be so valuable. It should be. It should be the thing you care about the most. It should be the thing that you want to put the most effort

and want to have be healthy. But it's like, they actually will be healthier if Christ is first. Like they will be healthier if you don't wrap your identity in them, if you wrap your identity in Christ, because I think that's whenever like pressure comes in any relationship or anything,

whenever like your identity is attached to another person, you know, besides Christ, because he's the only one that's like the same yesterday, today, forever. And so I think it's not that you're like, you know, saying they can't be that important to you. They are always gonna be that important to you as they should, but it's like to be the best version of you

in those relationships, in motherhood, in being a wife, in being a business person, to have your identity anchored in Christ is actually gonna make you show up for them better, because your emotions aren't tied to what's happening in the situation. Like you can be having a rough patch and not be like super depressed about on yourself

and talking so horrible about yourself and the negative, like that only hurts. You can instead go, this is a hard time, this is a bad situation, I know who I am in Christ, I know who they are in Christ, I know God has our family, I know God is a solid rock, a firm foundation for us to build our life on. And it changes things, it changes how you act.

And when your confidence is in that, then it can't be shaken. Well, I went back and read this, it was Colossians three, and where I mentioned that verse before, that was my favorite verse when I was in high school, and I went back to that today, and it's so interesting, I'm gonna read it, because it's Colossians three, like one through four.

So it says, since then you have been raised with Christ, set your heart on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on earthly things. For you died and your life is now hidden with Christ in God." So I thought about that. It's like, we're so worried about identity and making sure people see us for who we are and for who we want to be seen as. But this is like, no, actually your life is hidden with Christ in God. And when we can like be firm in that, like I can be hidden because I want Christ to be seen in me. I don't want people to see me. Then it goes on to said, when Christ, and then

it says, when Christ, who is your life appears, then you will also appear with him in glory. And so I just thought there was two little things, like one, our identity is meant to be hidden in Christ, and two, Christ is our life. He is everything to us. And so yes, all those things are good things and can be beautiful things in our life, but whenever that hierarchy of importance

is in the right order, then it all falls into place. So good, it's so crazy too, because the end of this, it says that after this big moment where they're like, you're the Messiah, it's just a huge moment, obviously, because it's like the first time that they're really saying like who Jesus is, you would think like natural, like if this was like a current situation

and someone was like, let me tell you who I am, it's like, oh my gosh, they can't wait to go to their friends, who they were just talking to. But he leaves them with this, he swore the disciples to secrecy, and he made them promise they would tell no one that he was the Messiah. And I just think that's so interesting

because Jesus was so humble about who he was. He's God, he's so humble, don't tell anyone. He wanted to have the opportunity to, and not to speak for him, but it seems like he wanted to have the opportunity to have a relationship. No, I mean, I'm not trying to just assume, this is an assumption, but I mean, I think if people would have seen Jesus and been like,

he's a Messiah, that obviously would have started the chaos sooner. There was a reason he didn't want to do it. There's more than just this reason. But I think one of it is like, he wanted people to come to their own realization of who he was without just like being told. You know what I mean?

And I think like that was the cool thing with Peter. He knew from the secret place. Think about the temptations of Satan when he tempted Jesus. Like that was one of the temptations. Like reveal yourself, show everybody who you are, you know, and that was a temptation for a reason, because we all, you know, there's a temptation in us

as human beings to like show ourselves for who we are, make sure everyone knows exactly. And so he tempted Jesus with that, and Jesus was like, no, I'm- It's not what we're doing. Right. No, I'm good. No, I'm good. No, I'm good. We don't got to start this yet. Not to speak for Jesus, but he said no. The other passage.

I was trying to just say, this is not the only reason, because you know when you can just hear what people are hearing on the other end. I'm really giving you a hard time. That's not why Jesus said that, because Jesus was not saying that so that the Romans wouldn't come after him. Well, yes, that too. But I think also he's so relational. And I think one of the most powerful things about that is that he didn't tell Peter that. Peter came to know that because he knew him.

Jesus had that confidence. He knew who he was. Yeah, he's like, he didn't ask him who people say he was because he was wondering or worried about it. Well, even whenever at the end of his life, whenever Pilate is like questioning him and trying to get him to say, say you're the end of his life, whenever Pilate is like questioning him and trying to get him to say, say you're the King of the Jews.

And Jesus like, you're saying that. Like he didn't feel the need to like, this is who I am, this is my identity. It's like, you're saying who I am. And so Jesus never did feel like he had to prove his identity. I mean, there were obviously times when he said, I am the And so Jesus never did feel like he had to prove his identity. I mean, there were obviously times when he said, I am the son of God, I'm the son of man.

And he said specifically- But it wasn't because he needed it for his pride. Right, he said specifically who he was. Where a lot of times we need it for pride. And I was thinking about like the love verse, first Corinthians, it was like, love doesn't boast, like it's not proud. Like love is not self-seeking.

And I think so often as humans, like when it comes to identity, it's not proud. Like love is not self-seeking. And I think so often as humans, like when it comes to identity, it's a pride thing. It's a self-seeking. It's like we want to boast in it. We want people to see it and be proud of it or whatever. And I think that's not where, again, that's not where confidence found. That's actually where a lot of insecurity rides

because then it's dependent on people noticing. It's dependent on you being your best. It's dependent on so many circumstances going right that just don't always go right, you know? So you're gonna hit that. You're gonna hit that hard place. So, so. So.

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I do think sometimes it's funny, like, if you can see it from outside the things that we're placing our identity in, because if you're on the outside of it, you can see it as that, you know, like, for instance, even like a certain designer thing that you carry or that you have, like, maybe a lot of some people can put it into that, or like in the hunting world, you mentioned hunting, it's like the identity is like, oh, I'm this kind of hunter. I'm a deer hunter, I'm a duck hunter, or I hunt with a bow or I hunt with a gun.

Like we can divide ourselves a thousand different ways in like so many ways. And it varies by culture by culture. And it can be like race or it can be sexuality or it can be like race or it can be sexuality or it can be all these things, but every culture does it in different ways, you know? And there's skin color, there's like what you wear, there's like weight, there's how much you weigh,

whether you're tall or short, like all these things that we can find to like place our identity in, but it actually shows you that it probably isn't of that much value because they don't all cross over for every culture, you know? So true. The other scripture I was thinking about

as I was kind of thinking about what we're gonna talk about today is in 2 Corinthians 5. And I would just encourage you to go read that whole chapter. But it starts out talking about that we have an earthly tent that we live in that is destroyed. We have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven,

not built by human hands. Meanwhile, we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. For while we are in this tent, we groan in our burden because we do not wish to be unclothed, but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling." And it just goes on to talk about that. And I was just thinking about like that, like our bodies in this earth,

like we're in a tent that we're always gonna feel a little bit like, oh, we know that there's something more than what we are and who we are and how we appear because our souls are what's eternal. And so just that thinking of this dwelling place as a tent that is temporary. And so as long as we're on this earth and in this time period of our eternity,

we're gonna have that little bit of tension and longing because we know like, okay, this is, this is. It's not there yet. It's like at the end of the first Corinthians, it says like, and now you see dimly, but then you will see full when you are face to face. You know, so it's like now we see in a mirror dimly. It's not your picture yet.

Cause you're not gonna fully see who you are till you literally come face to face with Jesus. And like, you know, I talked about that this year with the woman at the well story, but I was really going all the way back to Adam and Eve and how like, when they looked at the reflection, because we were talking about when mirrors were invented, but like before there was a mirror, there was a reflection of water. And so in the garden, I just like to imagine that because there was that river

that ran through the whole garden, Adam and Eve are there, everything's perfect. No evil has come upon the garden yet. They haven't sinned yet. Everything is good and perfect. And Adam and Eve being made in the image of God could go over to wash their face in the river and just see the reflection and just be like, wow, we are made in the Amager day.

We are made in the image of God. And then not only could they see their reflection of who they were and created to be, but God was in the garden with them. So face to face, they saw God. They knew who they were. And then all of a sudden, it's like they eat the apple who told you this.

We're naked. We feel ashamed now. We just felt no shame. But like what a beautiful picture to know, like the garden will be restored. Like we will once again be in unity with God face to face because of Jesus. And like, and that's the time you're really gonna know

like who you are. And so yeah, this is like the earth is temporary. So anything you find yourself in here, besides something beyond earth, is not going to be something that you can anchor down and as your full identity. Because this world is not our home. So it's true.

Yeah, so the end of 2 Corinthians 5 is the scripture that you've probably heard before, 17. It's like, therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has gone and the new has come. Okay, talk about identity. You're like, oh no, like the old has gone and the new has come.

So like, but he's saying like, I'm giving you a new identity. And that is as a son or a daughter of God. And then he says in 20, we are therefore Christ ambassadors as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sinned for us,

so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." So like that's our identity. Like we're the righteousness of God. We are his ambassadors. Like we are sons and daughters of him. That's the identity that he says that we are. And that's like, it makes me think of Saul to Paul, like giving a new self, like a completely new identity.

Like Saul had such a different identity than Paul, you know, because Jesus completely radically changed his life. But like not even just his name changed, but like obviously what he did and all those things, but like he was one of the, wasn't he like one of the top Pharisees, like one of the top, like he knew everything, you know? Like he was smart, but like he had to drop all that.

Like everything that people knew him as, gone. Now in Christ, and then he's like- Well, God just redeemed it. Yeah, and he's like, who am I to boast, like, except for Christ, because like that is his identity. And then, you know, Paul, like, what a goat, wrote like half the New Testament. And so it's so cool to see him in Christ.

I was thinking of, in Galatians, because we talked about, yeah, we'll find anything to divide ourselves into. This kind of hunter, that kind of hunter. Even, like, I was thinking of makeup. You're like, oh, well, I don't wear makeup. I'm a natural girl. OK, well, I'm a glam girl. I do wear makeup.

But who's to say what's better? You know what I mean? People are all like, because even if you don't wear makeup, people get prideful in the fact that they don't wear makeup and then people get prideful in the fact they wear too much makeup. So many things. But in Galatians, it says in Christ's family,

there will be no division into Jew or non-Jew, slave and free, male or female. Among us, you are all equal. That is, we are all in a common relationship with Jesus Christ. Also, since you're a Christ family, then you are Abraham's famous descendants, heirs according to the covenant promises.

So you all are in this together. But I love how it says, among us you are all equal. That is, comma, we are all in a common relationship with Jesus Christ. So truly, whenever you drop all the different things that divide you and you find yourself in Christ, there's this commonality. And it's amazing to find your identity in Christ

because again, it's nothing to boast in except for Christ. So you don't feel the need to show off, like it's for Christ, you know? And I do feel like, you know, people ask me about me speaking now, but me talking about how I used to be so nervous to speak. And I'm like, no, really, truly, I really was super nervous to speak.

I didn't want to do that. I was not good at it. But I think whenever I switched from speaking about myself and like Duck Dynasty and the things that our family did to speaking about Christ, a whole new confidence came on. Because it wasn't like I was having to talk about me or what we did or what we accomplished or come up with anything.

I was talking about Christ, the pages here, the stories here, and a new confidence began to arise. And so it's crazy how like the world will tell you, build your identity on the things you accomplish and then you will be confident. But it's like, no, put yourself on Christ, then you will find what true confidence is. Yeah.

That's really good. Mentioning that about like the dynasty, there's one part of it that I remember like really kind of becoming more aware of how people do really want you to kind of stay in a where you are. And I remember John Luke even did a talk. He did like a Ted talk. This was when he was like 18 years old at this.

He did a Ted talk and he talked about that because it's like people want to put you in a place and they want to keep you there. And you think about these because it's like, people wanna put you in a place and they wanna keep you there. And you think about these like, so like old celebrities, like old rockers that are still dressed exactly like they dressed when they were like 30 years old,

because they're like, oh, this is my look and it has to be this way and I have to keep it because everyone expects this of me. And so I do think that can be difficult whenever you're living in this place where it's like, everybody, even in high school or college or whatever, it's like, everyone expects me to be the party girl, or everyone expects me to be this,

so I have to keep that because everyone expects that. And we put that on one another where like, what if we could offer each other freedom to like change and to be different and to grow. And I think we can even do that like within our relationships. Like I've noticed being married for 32 years, like there's times when I'll see Willie changing and I'll be like, I'm like,

oh, I need to accept that he's changing. Sometimes I can think of him how he was before and he, but I was like, oh wait, actually he doesn't do that anymore. He's actually changed, you know? And so allow one another to change and to become something new and to become new creations in Christ

because that's what we're meant to be. Like we're meant to grow and change in Christ. And if we hold people to that, that can be really hard and detrimental. And like, even if you're like, oh, I'm not finding my identity in that, someone else might try to find your identity in it. Put it on you.

Uh-huh. Yeah. I just thought, like even like Willie with his headband. Yeah. Or the bandana. Mm-hmm. Because I was, and you don't have to speak for him, but even like that, you know,

like he might not find his identity in that, but if someone thinks you do, Right. You know, like an, you know, like he might not find his identity in that, but if someone thinks you do, right, you know, like an outsider might think, oh, he probably finds his identity and this look that he's cultivated. But knowing Willie, he's probably like, it's just a bandana. You know, I don't, you know, so. Yeah. Yeah. But when he did cut his hair and beard, I do remember he had to think about it because he was like, everyone knows me like this. And it did become this thing of, thankfully he didn't idolize it and keep it forever

because he felt like he had to. But he did think about that. I remember him being like, hmm. And then he surprised us all and like did it. And it was so fun and hilarious because no one knew he was gonna cut his hair and beard. But he's grown it out and back wearing the banana because he likes that.

That's his thing. He actually likes that. I think that's the thing though, when you find your identity in a certain thing, it limits you to that thing. So it's like that girl on Survivor, for instance, her identity was so limited to one aspect of her that if she would have just not found her identity

in that one aspect of her, they could have seen all that she has to give on the show. And she has a lot to give. But it was like, in her mind, that's it. And if that can't be a part of it, then who am I? How do people like me? But it's like, if we find ourselves in this,

then it's just so limiting where God has so, God created you so uniquely, so wonderfully, so intricately, like there's so much to you and surely he wouldn't have made all of that in you for you to be one specific thing, on like to one title, to one sport, to one, you know, social group, you know, like there's so much more. And so you're not limiting yourself to that.

And it is- What was the scene from Wicked? Unlimited. Hey! Hey, you good? That's pretty good. Thank you. That is good.

It is true that like the bandana thing made me think of, and I don't know if this really plays into it, but it is true where it's like, I can walk through the airport, you know this, like if I go to the airport and I don't have makeup on and I just wear pajamas, like no one will notice me. Yeah. Like it's truly, where I can walk in the airport, you know this. Like if I go to the airport and I don't have makeup on and I just wear pajamas, like no one will notice me. Like it's truly. Or I can walk in the airport with a cute outfit,

make it done, and I would take a lot of pictures. And it's like a weird thing because I know like, I'm the same me, but like one does certainly get a lot more attention. And I think like in my insecurity, I could go, okay, well do people, you know, not care if I'm not as put together or if I'm don't, whatever.

And it's like, no, don't go there. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's just how the world works. But like, I think I witnessed, I view that like, where I'm actually walking to the airport and I can see the way people notice me, but everybody has that with like social media. You can tell, like I said, what gets more likes,

what gets more attention, what. And so it's like not letting who the world says you are shape who you really are, because that's where it gets like so limited. So you get stuck, you get put in a box, and like people might have put you there, you might put yourself there, but that's a box you gotta break down.

You break down with the Lord. And it's again, like I think the goal of this podcast was to yes, have a messy conversation about it because this is a messy topic. It's a messy thing to work out. It's something that you can go through in any season of your life. You probably thought, ah, this was,

I thought this was just gonna be when I was 15 and here I am and I'm 40 years old and it's hitting me or here I am 27, still having those same thoughts, you know, whatever. But it's like a constant thing to anchor yourself and to root yourself in Christ. And I think we have to be, we have to kind of discern our own self.

Like when you feel like it went too far, because we talked about this in the podcast, like I wouldn't say, oh, if I'm identity on social media, I would be like, no, I don't, heck no, delete it right now, I don't care. But then all of a sudden, when feelings start to arise, I'm like, okay, maybe there is something there. I just need to check myself.

So I think it's, yeah, find yourself in Christ, but then constantly find yourself in Christ. So like that keeps you. Well, you saying that, just thinking about, yeah, as we change life experiences, you know, that's like when you're an empty nestester all of a sudden, or whenever, you know, your different things happen, or you retire, or you, like, there's always gonna be, if you place your value and your identity in anything, time will pass and that thing will

change. Yeah, so true. You know, if any of it, like, it could, but it's, and we can put it on the simplest things, you know? Joyce Meyer said, only a fool thinks they can always do what they've always done. It's like, you have to change. Like, you can't always do what you've always done. Like, it doesn't work that way. And I think, yeah, it takes like,

understanding and allowing people to change, but also I think it takes a lot of humility to allow yourself to change too, because that's just just funny. But one thing that I've had to like, but also I think takes a lot of humility to allow yourself to change too, because it's just funny, but one thing that I've had to find just humility and accept is that I got started in the public at such a young age, and so obviously I've grown up. Obviously I've grown up, obviously I did immature things, obviously the first messages I did weren't the deepest or whatever.

And people always come up to me and they're like, man, you've grown so much. Your first messages, I mean, they were good, but you've just gotten so much better. And it's like, thank you. But it's kind of, I feel kind of embarrassed because I'm like, was it not good? That was in front of millions of people.

Like, was it, you know what I mean? Like you get in your head like, oh man, but then I always had to remind myself like, yes, I've grown and that's a good thing. And like, yeah, it wasn't gonna be like the best when I first started. Like I'm gonna grow and like God used that for what it was in that time.

But like, again, it's not about me. So it's like, am I embarrassed or not? It's not about my performance, it's not about how I did. It's about like the message of Jesus going out and God did that. And so like, I have to remind myself of that because I feel myself getting embarrassed whenever people do that.

Because people say that to me all the time, which is really sweet and I will receive it and accept it. But sometimes you're like, oh shoot, can I not do a good job then? They're meaning it like growth. But yeah, I mean, people can, anytime someone gives you a compliment, sometimes it can be like this compliment that you're like, oh shoot, did I not do a good job then? They're meaning it like growth, but yeah, I mean, people can, anytime someone gives you a compliment, sometimes it can be like this compliment that you're like, oh, but wait, does that mean that that wasn't good before?

I know. Yes. You've gotten way better. Yeah, exactly. Like, thank you. Well, that made me think about, like, Sadie sent this picture, were you the one who sent it? Or you or Bella sent this picture of me on Duck Dynasty.

Oh that was me. And my outfit. Oh my gosh. It's so bad. My hair is so bad. I have so many extensions. My outfit, I had like fringe mixed with turquoise. Brown fringe with turquoise with like, your rings were giant.

Yes. It was so funny. And so if I had found my identity and my appearance and my fashion sense at that time, I would be majorly having identity crisis right now, because I'd be like. That's on the internet forever. It's there forever, and things change and all that.

I was thinking about just this conversation, and I love that you brought up the idolization versus identity, because I do think there are the things that are wrapped together in it. And I've mentioned this before, and because I really, literally what led me to write the book Strong and Kind, that kind of parenting book that I wrote,

because I had this young guy who was in his 20s, and he had lost his way for a little bit. He'd grown up in the church, grown up with Christian parents, and was a choir boy in church or whatever, and he had lost his way for a little bit. He'd grown up in church, grown up with Christian parents and was a choir boy in church or whatever. And he had lost his way and didn't even know if he believed in God anymore and went to drugs and alcohol and all this.

But even more than that, had a real identity crisis. Do I even believe this? And I asked him, I said, why do you think you lost your way if you grew up that way? He was like, well, and this was so like scary as a parent to hear. He said, well, my parents said they valued the things God values, but they live like they valued

the things the world valued. And I was like, whoa. And he's like, not just my parents, he's like, my parents and all the adults around me that I saw said they valued these things. It's kind of like, they said their identity was in Christ, but what I saw was their identity was in. And he literally mentioned, he was like,

what kind of bag they carried, what kind of car they drove, what school, what college we got into. So it was like, we can say, oh, okay, our identity's in Christ, but if we're living, like our identity is in what. But if we're living like our identity is in what, you know, school, what type of job we have, what kind of house we, where we vacation, all those things, you know, people can see it from the outside.

So I think that is kind of the question. I remember being really struck by that and thinking, okay, like what am I showing my kids I value by the way I live, what my identity is by what I'm doing with my time, the conversations that I have with what I, how I spend my time, my money, all of those things. And so I do think that is a question that we can all ask ourselves in searching for like,

what is our identity wrapped in, or what is the thing that we're idolizing is like, what am I showing other people that I actually value? I think that is so good to end this on too. It's a challenge because you cannot say your identity since something if you're not living like it. That's why even that social media poll idea whenever so many people said my identity is in,

who God says that I am, and then, you know, you click on their page and you're like, is it friend? You know, like if it is, then that's great. But if it is, it should be obvious. You know, what your identity is in is probably going to be obvious to people from afar. More than what you say is actually how you live because your identity is who you are, what you do.

And I love how when Jesus spoke over Peter and is like, you are Peter. You are rocking on this rock. I will build my church and the gates of hell won't prevail against it. And then like, he directly spoke into it. And this is how you're going to live, Peter. Like, you're going to live with like a confidence

that like, the gates of hell can't prevail against the church. And it's amazing to see what Peter went on and did from that relationship and with Jesus. And so friend I really hope this was encouraging to you. I think that this is going to send you off with a lot of questions. I think the best place to ask is God, God why did you make me this way? God what do you see in me? And more importantly God who are you? Show me new sides of you that I can understand more that would help me understand me. You know this is going to send you off with an incredible intentional time with the Creator.

So thank you friends for listening. Of course, we love doing Messy Conversations and we haven't done them in a while, but we're back at it. So send us any topics that you really have been struggling with, want us to talk about, and we will tackle it in the best messy version we can with the Bible's open. So thanks, Renz. Whoa, that was good. And messy.