WHOA That's Good Podcast - Don’t Let Culture Silence Your Voice | Sadie Robertson Huff & Francine Rivers

Episode Date: May 4, 2022

Francine Rivers, author of "Redeeming Love," shares her heart behind this novel that gave Sadie literal chills at the end. Francine opens up to Sadie about why she stands behind every scene in the film "Redeeming Love" film and why she chose to write a redemptive story that portrays the redeeming love of Christ in a lost world. She also talks about what God revealed to her as she was writing and what she learned from her encounter with cancel culture. You can change the culture instead of letting it change you. Be a light wherever you are! "The Lady's Mine" by Francine Rivers is available now. Visit https://redeeminglovesanctuary.org to learn more about how Francine's foundation supports survivors. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, well that's good fam. Welcome back to the Well That's Good Podcast. You all today, we have a very special guest. I cannot wait to get to her. But first, I got to tell you about our conference coming up, August 19th and 20th at the Ella's Disturric Conference right here in Munro, Louisiana. And especially, I have to shout out all of you college students. You know, we have a code right now, college.

Literally, if you just type in college whenever you check out at elicesterconference.com, you can get $20 off your ticket, which is so great. And that code is going to be active to May 15th. So you just got about a week and a half left. So if you're in college and you're coming to the elicester conference, when you buy your ticket, go to L.O.S.S.S.T.R. conference.com. Type in the code college for $20 off your ticket. So pumped to see

you here at Cannot Wait. Okay, now without further ado, we're gonna get to our guest today. She is a best selling author. She's written over 30 books. One book in particular redeeming love. I'm sure you've heard about it. If you haven't, it's honestly my favorite book ever. They have sold over three million copies of this incredible book, and it is now a movie. She also has a new book out I have right here called The Ladies Mine. And I am so thrilled to get to talk

to this incredible woman. We have Francine Rivers on the Pie Gas. Welcome to the Pie Gas. Oh, thank you. It's plenty to be here. It is a pleasure to have you. Well, I gotta start this off the piecast. Welcome to the piecast. Thank you. It's plenty to be here. It is a pleasure to have you. Well, I got to start this off the same way. I start every piecast, which is asking you the question.

And this is a big one. But what is the best piece of advice that you've ever been given? Oh, wow. That, you know, that's a loaded question. It depends on what area of my life. I think, you know, the's a loaded question. It depends on what area of my life. I think you know the major question my mom Her major her her favorite verse was Proverbs 3 5 and 6 and I consider that my life first now

But I if I had only if I had only listened to her when I was a young girl I was like in my late 30s when I became a Christian. But basically trust in the Lord don't lean on your own understanding. I think that's the primary thing to learn in life that kind of sums up the life of faith. Yeah. Trusting God. Hey, I would say that that is the best piece of advice

that you can give trust in the Lord and don't lean on your own understanding. And that is a hard thing to do. It's a little bit easier said than done for sure. Well, love that you already mentioned a little bit of your testimony that you didn't become a Christian until you were 30. But yet so many people know you as this author that has written some incredible Christian books and incredible books that maybe even led them to become a

Christian. I remember, you know, I've been a Christian for a while now, I do ministry, but when I read redeeming love just this past year, how is this crying? Reading it, and I've never, I'm not much of a reader and I've never cried reading a book, but I was just crying because God was becoming so real to me as I was reading it. And just, I could just think about wrestles in my own life with God and conversations of how with God and the

voices that you know you hear from God speak and it just really moved me to the heart of the Father. So a lot of people don't know that backstory of you not being a Christian. And so what did that journey look like for you? When did you come to fall in love with Christ yourself? Well, I you know I always knew I wanted to be a writer, and I started writing when I was in, expecting our first baby, but I was writing in the general market,

steaming historical romances, and then I became a Christian in 1986, and that just changed everything. I couldn't write, nothing I'd written made any sense to me. I ended up just reading the Bible through. We started a home Bible study, and it was through that home Bible study that we came to the minor prophets. The book of Hosea is really what Bruges broke me open. And I felt like that was God telling me, this is what I want you to be writing.

You've been writing these other, you know, these other romances. Yeah. But this is the real thing. This is what the real thing is. So that was really, I felt like that was my statement of faith when I wrote that book. I was trying to share with the people who would follow my career and the general market, you know, what had happened in my life. And I would get letters from people saying, and I wish I could meet a Michael Jose and I could write back and say, you can. It's an allegory about Jesus. You know, you can meet Jesus and have a love like that in your life. That is great. So, it's so powerful. It's like all the books since then have really had to do with struggles that I've had in my own faith walk.

So I'd have a question because I thought, I thought redeeming a lot was going to be the last book I've wrote. Wow. And God had other ideas. For sure. But, you know, like with a voice in the wind, it really had to do with how do I share my faith with unsafe family and friends who don't want to read the Bible and they don't want to hear about Jesus.

And when I learned in the process of writing that book, is it's really how you live? Because people are watching Christians all the time. And then they will ask, and God provides the answer. So it's like each book has been something that I've been dealing with, they're trying to find God's perspective. And the writing has become a tool to just draw close to the Lord. That's powerful. What does that process look like for you?

So you have a thought and you think this is a question I have for the Lord of this super-specative I have. And then what next? How do you start writing this story? Well, it usually, it starts with the question and then the characters are, you know, there's always one struggling

Christian because that's how I consider myself a struggling Christian, you know, trying to find answers and trying to figure out how do you walk that faith lock in a very dark world, the world is becoming dark all the time. And then the different characters kind of play out all the different answers that you hear and that you see. But what is the search is what's God's perspective. So the story just I'm what they call a answer. So I don't know what the story is going to look like. I just start on page one and begin to write. Wow. And I have a very loose kind of outline of where it's going to go historically, but

It's just God is revealing things. That is so cool. I actually was wondering that like if you knew the end of the story When you start writing it or if you kind of just let it go that is so cool because I'm not gonna give it away Because I would never want to give away the end of redeeming love to someone who's never read it But I had chills like I was like never read it, but I had chills. Like I was like jaw drop chills, moment of just like God, it just felt like the most perfect wrapped up moment. Because you know when you're reading a book and it's so good and you're like I really hope the end is everything you want it to be, you know? Yeah. And it was just so much more, it was so awesome. So that's cool to know that God just is kind of speaking to you as he writes. Well there's always a happy ending too. I'm not a I'm not a modern writer because I know a lot of books that are coming out now.

They don't have resolution at the end or they have a very unhappy ending but you know with Christ you have a happy ending. It's good. That is the ending. There is faith involved and in the story you know, in any love story that I write. It's always a triangle. It's always a love triangle. Because as people draw closer to God, you know, they're drawing closer to each other. So he's got to be at the center of it. You know, there is a difference, too, between a Christian who writes and a Christian writer. A Christian who writes may put part of their, you know, put their worldview in there, but it's not central to the story where the books that I write, I'm writing, if you took Christ out of the story, there wouldn't be a story it would collapse. So there's a difference in

that too. He has to be the center. Wow, that is so good. And I love that you write stories with a good ending because you're right with Christ. Yeah, it is a good. And I love that you write stories with a good ending because you're right with Christ. It is a good ending. And honestly, I know the end of the story. Yes, and I think our culture could use a little bit more of that. Like, it's kind of sad that you're right. A lot of modern books and movies and stories.

It's like this, it ends on not a good note. And I think a lot of people view life like that. That what's the meaning, what's the purpose but what a gift that to know Jesus and to know that man the story it might not look good now but it but it gets good but we already know the victory that he holds is awesome. I just love that you know you used to write these semi-romantic books and now you're writing these books about the heart of God, but also not shine away from just the really tough things in the world, but also showing like beautiful

aspects to God. Especially with redeeming love, you talk about so many gritty things, so many things that are hard to talk about, hard to write about. Why do you go there in your books? I think it's needed. Do you think more people need to do that? And how did you get to the place where you're like, I'm just gonna say it. Well, I know that, you know, with redeeming love, I really identified with Gomer in the book of Ozean.

I was in a prostitute, but I still felt like, you know, I always was turning away from God and looking to other things for answers. And so in that sense, I'm a harlot. I was a harlot. I still felt like I always was turning away from God and looking to other things for answers. So in that sense, I'm a harlot. I was a harlot. So I wanted to start in the nitty gritty. All the books that I'd written before then were in the 1840s to 1880s, California history.

So I thought I wanted to put it in the same time period that I've been writing in. And I wanted it at a time period that really, you know, had a lot of historical interest, which the gold rush did. But I didn't, what I didn't know when I was writing redeeming love is I didn't have that kind of background. So I think that God revealed a lot of things to me as I was writing because I didn't have the kind of life serrated. The little girl who becomes is sold into prostitution and eight. And I started getting letters from people who read the book, who were in that lifestyle,

who had been abused as children. Broken marriages, people that were in prostitution or had been trafficked. And I had not made that connection. I thought I was writing about something that happened over 100 years ago. I didn't know it was happening now. I have friend invited me to speak at the International Conference on prostitution. I said, what would I have to offer them?

You know so much more about the statistics and what's happening around the world. She said, you have no idea how redeeming love is used That it was it's like a first Contact type thing that they can give to somebody because you know a lot of people they don't want to hear the name of Jesus They don't want to hear about a Bible But they'll read a novel and that opens up conversation. It's like a tool, a bridge to reach people. And they just, they wanted to know where the story come from and how did you write it? And how did you know all that stuff? And it's like, I didn't. I had, I

was just writing what God was revealing to me. I felt, when I was writing that book, I felt like Jesus was in the room with me telling me Sarah's story and revealing her heart to me. And also, you know, what it would look like to be like Christ in a relationship, to try to love the way Jesus does. And that's what I was learning from Michael, is that he wanted to be like Christ. He was he was showing angel Christ like love all the way through and how difficult that is. It's not easy to love that way. I think that so many times it's like easy to think, well God is just God. So God gave me all this and I'm so grateful,

but you don't understand like until you try to be like Christ, how hard that is. And I think that's what became so real to me in that moment is just how much God loves me that every time I run off, every time I go straight, every time I go back to the old ways, like he's still there with this pursuing love, but love that's so bold enough to wait, you know, for me to come back. And that's like some of the hardest part of reading the book. You're like, go after her.

But I was like, why is she running away so many times and how many times in our life we run away? And I know one of the things with the challenge with the movie is I said, you have to be able to see. I wrote the script and then I worked with DJ Kuru so on the production script. And I wanted to make sure that scene was in there with Michael where he's saying, let me go after her and run her back at the end. And God is telling him, you have to wait because she was beginning

to look at Michael as her savior. And God was saying to him, no, I'm her savior. You have to let her go and find me. She has to seek me. And then, and he wouldn't give Michael the answer, because Michael's saying is she gonna come back in the book he's asking, and God isn't giving him an answer. Because it really, the choices are,

we have to make that choice to follow Christ and to accept him as the Lord and savior. Yeah, that's so good. So I love how you say young girls come up to you and say, I want a Michael, I can't wait to be my Michael and you tell them, you know, Michael is Jesus. Anybody can meet Jesus, I love that. But I know you have been married for over 50 years,

which is an incredible thing. And when I'm sure we can all learn so much from, but tell me a little bit about you meeting your husband and just the journey I've had of being married for 50 years. Oh, yeah, we met in fifth grade. Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, we were really good friends all through

a grade school and high school. And he had another girlfriend, and I went off to college. He went off to join the Marine Corps Corps and he was serving in Vietnam. And my brother was in Army Intelligence and he was captured during the Tet Offensive in a way. And it came out in our hometown paper and Rick's mom wrote to him every single day that he was in Vietnam.

And while the Tet Offensive was going on, they didn't get any letters. So when the Tete Offensive was over, he got a whole stack and the top one was about my brother being captured. And then the second one was about when the Marines came into the city, my brother had been badly wounded, but he was able to reconnect with, he was able to get away from his captors and was reconnected with the Marine Corps and then they brought him out of the city. So Rick wrote to me and said, you know, you're lucky to get your brother back, because most of them don't come back.

And the group that my brother was captured with, some of them went, ended up in North Vietnam, because my brother was badly wounded. They kept him there in way. But we started a correspondence and he came home and it was like wow he's growing up. So he came home on December 20th and we were on 1968. We were married December 21st, 1969. Wow. And you know we we each had stuff from our our lives. You know I was in 60s college you know and all the stuff that was going on there and he was coming back from Vietnam. So he had some PTSD. So we had a lot of issues to deal with. But I think being good friends was a

sound foundation. And then of course it was years later that we came to Christ and that changed everything. That really began a whole new chapter of our relationship. And that Bible study that we started originally, I was coming back to church because I grew up in the church, which you can be sitting in a pew and not be a Christian. You know, you can have head knowledge, but not heart knowledge. And I couldn't get him to go. And we had gone to a church in Southern California, but I think Jesus had left the building. I mean, they just were not teaching the gospel.

And Rick was actually the chairman of the Board of Trustees. And they didn't know he wasn't a Christian. He didn't know he was a Christian. And he saw inner workings of that church that really bothered him. So when we moved to Sebastianville, he didn't want any part of the church. And then I went back because we were very close to getting a divorce. We were really just struggling. And I walked into this church and felt like I'd come home. It was a, you know, non-denominational autonomous church teaching just scripture teaching the Bible and

I he didn't want to come so I asked the pastor would you be willing to start a home Bible study and he said sure Because I thought if I can't get Rick to go to church, I'll bring the church to him So yes, but we were you know Rick is now teaching that class We it's been going on for over 30 years So Every time we move we just kept it going we've the sabastopol Windsor Santa Rosa all in the same area But we just kept moving around we have about 15 that come now But people have moved away. We've walked people through cancer, you know, we've

You know had a lot of change over the years, but still going on. That's incredible. That is awesome. So I want to ask you a little bit more about that. I feel like I could learn so much from you and I could ask you a million questions on just several of the things you just said about, even marriage or church and all that.

But one thing I want to talk about is, okay, this Bible study's been going over 30 years. And like you said, you've bought people through cancer, you've had people move. So hard things have happened within that 30 year timeframe. How do you say committed to something like that? And I think it's interesting that, you know, the book, it took about 30 something years to become a movie. So you clearly have a thing with, with waiting and being committed to something.

And so teach us a little bit about how to wait for things and be committed to something we believe in. Yeah, every time we kind of talk, well, should we not have it? Because it'll, people, we had a number of couples move away because they wanted to move out of California. They were retiring. So they were moving to Idaho.

And they were moving to Montana. And they were moving to other states. And we thought, okay, we've got about six people left, should we keep it going? And then other people start coming, so it kind of builds up. So it's been something that we felt like this is something God has called us to do. And it's really like a little church in a lot of ways because you get close to people. In church, you have that big group. And so you're saying, hi, how are you?

Well, we're great. How are you? And you have like five minutes to talk. With a small group, you really get to know each other and you pray for each other. And it's more like a family. So it's become a real important part of our lives. And I think there used to be an old saying

those that prey together stay together. It's good. And our relationship really changed for the better and it's grown over the years. When we started getting up together, Rick had his own business. So he was having to be at the office early in the morning to make his East Coast calls. So the only time for us to be at the office early in the morning to make his East Coast calls.

So the only time for us to be alone together because we had three children was for me to get up early. And then we could spend that time together. And we read the Bible together. We do devotionals together. We pray together. And that's kind of the start to our day. And I think that made a huge difference in our relationship. And also our family.

You know, I the kids saw that. They grew up with that. It's sweet. I love the intentionality behind it. I'm like, if that's the only time I'm going to see you, then I'm going to be getting up at five. And I think that sometimes, you know, we make so many excuses as to why we don't have time for something. But a lot of times it's just taking that intentionality to carve out the time for the things that are important. And I'm starting to learn that recently just because having one kid definitely throws off your schedule in routine.

And at one point, it was good to just go to work, come home, be with Christian. But now it's like, okay, go to work, be a mom and make sure honey gets all the time she needs and make sure Christian And I have a solid relationship and we've talked about too. I've realized about a month ago I just need to get up earlier and it was like in a piphany well that would just solve a lot of problems and It's true just making time for the things that matter Like I mentioned the movie, the movie just came out,

which is incredible. And I was there opening night with a lot of my friends. And it was so awesome because I came with a group of friends who's in a life group. And then there was all the different life groups from church there. I was like, oh, hey, hey, hey, hey. It's all my pastors, why I saw everybody.

And it was just the best. The opening night, everyone was so excited. And for me, I got kind of lucky because I read redeeming love just a few months ago and then found out, oh, there's a movie literally coming out in a few months. And then a lot of people read it 20, 30 years ago and had to wait all this time. What was that wait like for you?

Because obviously the wait was hard for everybody else, but you're the one who wrote this book. You love it. This is your story in a sense. Why the way, how was the way, and what were some of the things behind the scenes? While we were waiting, what were you working on? Well a lot of people had approached me and talked about wanting it to be a movie. We worked with several other companies.

But they very often, I'd read the script and go, they just don't get Michael. They don't understand Michael. Wow. And usually it was always men that wrote the script and they had their own ideas about how a man should behave. Wow. And it was usually they wanted the guy to ride in at the end and save

the dance like no, you're not understanding the story, you're not understanding who Michael represents and why he behaves the way he does. Wow. And I was talking to Cindy Bond, she was interested in getting the option. And I just thought I'm going gonna just try to write a script so I can show them what I'm looking for in a script because I did I have a very good attorney and she made sure I had a lot of creative controls Pardon had you ever written a script before for a movie? No, so this is all new This is all new So I got I got some books about how to write a script and I downloaded the final draft onto my computer and I just I knew what

I had to be in the script. I love movies so that helped. But I thought okay I'll write an example and then they'll understand what I'm looking for and they'll hire a professional to do it. And Cindy said, we like this script. We'll take this script. And then when DJ Kyrusso came on board, of course, he knows how to make a film, a beautiful film. And I had written it as a linear story

just the way it is in the book. And I think it would have been too hard for viewers to see that whole backstory of a little girl all up front. You know, that's what you're watching when you come into theater. A lot of people would be getting up and walking out, especially people that are survivors. Yeah. Because it would have stirred up so much for them emotionally. Yeah. So he restructured and then we worked on other scenes to to bring out the story and to make it clear You know what it was all about so that script that is in the movie I felt like we both

Put in that so that's why we're both on the credits for the for the screenplay That's awesome, but it was quite an experience We were it Rick and I were able to go to South Africa and watch the filming and meet the actors and see the sets and all that. But I felt too that finding the right actors, I was involved in the auditions. And we knew right away Abigail Cohn was just perfect for the role of Angel, but Michael was hard to find.

Yeah. Because we had to, there again, the actress would come in and they would, there was this one scene where he's meeting her in the, in the brawgel. And it's when he's kind of upset with her. And they all would, most of the Americans would be coming onto her. And it's like, no, that's not, that's not Michael. So DJ actually saw Tom Lewis in something and he said I think this is the young man that we need because he had a complete you know like full scholarship to the the drama school in London he was a stage actor very very talented but he by the time DJ got there to audition him, Tom had read the book twice.

Wow. So he understood the story. And they had a long conversation. He said, this is this is the young man we need. And he really has an ability to show all the different nuances of emotion. And I think he really pulled off that role. I hope he becomes a big star. Yeah, he did. I was wondering that for you. Of course, for the reader, you imagine who these people

are and what they look like when you're reading it. I remember the trailer came out right around the time I was reading it. So I was so excited. I was like, oh, putting the face to the name and kind of just imagining that like it was going to be in the movie since I knew I was about to see it But I bet that was really hard for you because when you are writing these people, I'm sure you had this picture in your mind and say to see them And that that was just the coolest thing Yeah, it was really amazing and it just to be able to meet them and I didn't try to interfere with the way they played the roles because I felt you know you have to trust the actor to do what he needs to do. Yeah, Abigail, there's the one scene where she's in the water and she's scrubbing herself. Yeah,

helping you. That was a real crucial scene that had to be just right and she did a beautiful job on it. I mean we were I couldn't have been happier with the actors that were chosen for the parts. That's awesome. She was perfect for Angel. She was like perfect for that. It was awesome. Everything about it was just so good, so cool. So obviously the movie is so well loved and the book is so well loved and you've even shared a little bit. I want to hear more about stories that people have come to you like has there been a moment where someone's come to you and share their story that you've been like, wow, that's why I wrote the book. I mean, I'm sure there's several, but can you think of one that comes to the top of your head where something happened with

the book or a story was told that you thought like that's why I did it that's why we know so much of it I when people come to me about their You know how they're responded to redeeming love I always feel like you know God can use anything Even work of fiction to reach his children. Yeah, so I almost feel like well I'm I'm not that important. I'm incidental. This is all about what God is doing in that person's life. And I've gotten a number of letters from women that are in prison.

And for a long time, I think prostitutes were treated as criminals. And now we're beginning to understand that very often, and probably most of the time they are victims. They have been forced into prostitution or they've been groomed into it, trafficked into it. That's on the rise. I mean, that's one of the highest crimes that there is now with the human trafficking. But I, you know, just the personal stories I've received so many over the years, but what I tend to do is I read the story and they'll, people will write their entire life story

to me. Wow. And I will read it and then I will write back. And then I destroy the letter because it's so personal. It's not meant for anybody else's eyes to see that because they're sharing their pain. You know, just the anguish of what they've gone through and what brought them into it and so many of them have been abused as children by family members, people that they should be able to trust and they could. And then that makes them vulnerable. Wow. Does somebody that just wants to use them? Gosh, that's so sad. That's really amazing that people are able to reach out to you in that way.

And share this story. One of the things that came that I wanted to add in here, that one of the things that came out of the movie that I was really thrilled about, Holly Kuruso, who is DJ's wife, she's actually the one that read the novel. Wow. And took it home to DJ and said, you have got to make a movie out of this. Wow. It's got to be a movie. They're very strong and faith, both of them.

And we were talking because for Rick and I, the proceeds from redeeming love have always gone into ministry since the very beginning, other than what needs to be for a long time. It was everything. And then Rick said, we can't afford to pay the taxes and we need to pay the taxes. So we'd pay the taxes. But Holly said, you know, what if we started a ministry because we won't do the same thing with whatever I make from the movie. And she founded Redeeming Love Sanctuary Foundation. And I think we're gonna change the name to just Redeeming Love Foundation.

So the proceeds from the book go into that and we're coming alongside ministries that are on the front lines working with survivors. And then we can give grants for programs, educational programs, that kind of thing. So that was a huge thrill, because I feel like we're able to do something practical to try to change what's going on and help the people that have been. That's awesome.

That have survived, you know, horrendous, horrendous lives. Come on. So I actually had that note to ask you about that. So I'm so glad that you brought that up. How can we, as listeners, like be a part of that? Is there a website we can go to to help donate? Yeah. It's www.redeeminglobsanctuary.org. Awesome. Awesome. Well, if you're listening to all kinds of information on there, so explaining it all.

That's amazing. Well, if you're listening to this right now, I would just encourage you. We're going to keep talking, but I would go do that right now. Look up the website, give what you can because this is a true story that so many people are living right now and you know you can be a part of giving and changing someone's life in that way. So thank you for setting that up. I want to ask you because I know with the movie obviously so many people loved it and so many people

doored it and learned from it and cried through it and felt God in it. And then a lot of people, you know, have criticized it. A lot of people have misunderstood or not even seen it or have a perspective, an off perspective of it. Did you anticipate some of that going into it? And how do you handle that? You know, do you just stay rooted in what you know to be true? Well, when it originally came out over 30 years ago,

there was pushback on it because it was about a prostitute. I mean, even though it's based on a book from the Bible, it was kind of an edgy book at the time. So I knew there would be some pushback. I think it was a real shock to DJ and also Cindy, the how vicious some of the criticism was. And what surprised me, although it shouldn't have, the worst criticism came from people who had never read the book or seen the movie. They just assumed it was

pornographic. And I wrote a blog to try to explain why every scene in that movie is there for a purpose. And I'm behind it fully. I even had things canceled because they'd asked me, were you on board with everything in the movie? I said, absolutely. You know, I wrote the script. And it's all biblical. If people really thought about the Bible,

the Bible is our rated. And there are places in the Bible that are X. You know? So you can't have a PG-13. You know, the warning would be, consider what the subject matter is and it is about trafficking. Although we didn't promote it as a trafficking book because we didn't or a trafficking movie. We didn't want that kind of connotation to it because it's more than that.

I mean, it's really about God's love for each of us at the redeptive power of his love. But I knew what happened. I was told don't read any of that. Don't read any of the websites. Don't go online and I thought, you know, I know it's there. But I think you have to do what God's calling you to do. Yes. And just try to what God's calling you to do. Yes. And just try to, you know, remove yourself from some of that and just pray, I didn't want to disrespect anybody that was criticizing it because I think they felt they were being gatekeepers for their denomination, you know, because they were telling people, avoid this, don't go, you know, have nothing to do with it. It's pornographic and all that. It was like, I wish you'd seen it and understood the whole story. But it really, the movie was never intended just for the Christian audience.

It was intended for people that are in the world and have no concept of who Christ is. And also, like one of the things that got a lot of pushback were the love scenes. Yeah. And it was like, well, hopefully it's very clear that he, he, first of all, he paid her ransom to get her out of the brawl though. He married her and then he waited months and wooed her

until she loved him and it meant something to her and then the marriage was consummated and how beautiful sex is between people who love each other and are married and committed. That's that's the beauty of God has designed us for that too. So that was the intent of that. Yes, but people were like, oh hey, so I thought it was beautiful. I have to say I really did. I thought it was beautifully done. And I think that, you know, we don't have,

well, say this, the Bible paints the most beautiful picture of what sex is and what it was designed for. And does it create a by God? But we don't have that represented very well in our culture. We have the complete opposite of what sex is or what it is used as nowadays. And that's terrible. And so I think you being able to show a redemptive story of all of the pain and the past and the guilt and the just horrible aspects of just the nature of trafficking and what that looks like. But then the beautiful aspect of their dimension of God and then what sex looks like in a marriage and how powerful

it is. I thought it was beautifully done and honestly it was a great example that I think we need to read and we need to see. And so I think it's awesome. And then another thing I want to say too is that we do live in a cancel culture and I hate that that happened to you and that people canceled you for certain reasons or what not But I love what you said you got to do what God calls you to do and I think that a lot of people right now Especially in the church are backing down from saying the things they feel called to say doing the things I feel called to do because they're so scared that they're gonna cancel by culture and for me I don't know if you know anything about my background,

but I come from a TV background and they went into ministry, but I was on Dancing with the Stars and when I was younger. And being a Christian going on that show, a lot of Christians had some hate for that, you know, because you're dancing and you're in outfits or whatever. And I remember my mom said to me, she's like, you're called to be the light of the world. And she told me that verse about,

you're not meant to be a light hidden under the sand, but to be on top of the sand, to give lights to everyone in the house in the same way, shine your light so that people can see Jesus in you. And so she's telling me this verse and just giving me this example and I go out in Hollywood

and I'm in the midst of a lot of craziness and I'm able to shine a light. And people came to know, God, just because of that, how cool. And now you're doing that in a really huge way through this book. And I think that as Christians, we cannot be scared of the darkness.

Like you have to know you're the light. and you also have to realize that if cancellation comes because you did what you're called to do well that's a lot of what happened is Jesus you know. So the world hates you it hated me first you know. And so I just think what you're doing is awesome I just commend you for your I just think what you're doing is awesome. I just commend you for your boldness to say, I am behind this, your vulnerability to write this book, put it out there, make it a movie, all the stuff. I think it's awesome. And so I just wanna say thank you for that.

And I loved getting to hear your heart on it. Whenever I saw that you said yes to do this podcast, I was like, I can't wait to hear your heart on this book because I know people have so many opinions, but man your hearts have pure and so beautiful in that. I know you have an idea. Well, we want so much, you know, I think Christians, we want so much to reach the people that don't have any concept.

I mean, it was actually, when we moved into Sevastopol and Rick and I were so, we were just struggling in our marriage, it was actually a little boy of eight what came next door and wanted to help us move in and he said have I got a church for you no way and on the other side of us this was the only house for rent in Sebastopol of the time so it's like God put us right there between these two families It's like God put us right there between these two families. And on the other side, the lady was coming over with apple pie and saying, I'd love to invite you to church. And it was like, that was the church I went to, where I felt like when I walked in the door, I'd come home.

Come on. So it's like, we can be a light in our neighborhood. We can be a light wherever we are. But we need to reach out. And I think there are so many people, I heard the term, Mesaudah Christians years ago, where people go inside the fortress of their church and they want to close the doors and windows and keep the world out. We're supposed to be going out to the world and drawing people to Christ. And I think that the culture isn't canceling us. We're canceling ourselves. That's good. By staying silent and by staying hidden. Yep. You know. What a scheme of the

enemy too. It's like to make you fear that culture will cancel you so much to the point that you actually cancel yourself because you're so afraid to say anything. Wow, that's a good point. Whoa, that's good. That's a moment. So you have this new book out and it's called The Ladies Mine. Tell us a little bit about it and also I just have to mention, like I said at the beginning, you've written over 30 books. Like what, do you even know what number this is?

I have no idea. That's all I've done. It's the last time you've done one. Oh my gosh, tell us about it. What are you excited about with this book? Oh my gosh, I had so much fun writing that book because I wanted to go back to the the old west. That's where I started. And and it's a romance that I also was dealing with a question of can one person make a difference in the community? And of course with Christ, yes, you can but she's She's feisty Catherine wall she's feisty and she's basically been disinherited by her family

By her stepfather and mother and sent west to collect an inheritance that was meant for her mother But her mother has signed over because women didn't have the right to have property at that time. And the step-other sees a way to get rid of her. So go collect whatever it is. It's not going to be very much, but go and don't come back. And she finds out that she's inherited a little house on Main Street in this wild west town that's, you can smell a mile away when she comes into it.

And it's the silver mining era, the 1870s. So it's a lot like the gold rush, just a wild, lawless place. And she takes one look, and she just begins to see the potential and what needs to change. And she realizes very quickly that what she's inherited is not just this little house, but a Washington hand press, which was that what she's inherited is not just this little house, but a Washington hand press, which was a use for newspapers. So, she thinks, all right, I'll try. So there's a lot more to it than that, but I called it my COVID book because I wanted there to be a lot of humor in it. Yeah. That when we were all sitting sheltered in place, and of course a writer is normally sheltered in place anyway to get any work done.

But I thought we need to laugh. We need to have some things that are amusing and fun. And so that book is a lot lighter than the master piece was the book before and that was heavy duty about childhood trauma and how that can affect adult adult thinking. But this one is more like a taming of the shrew in the wild west with a little bit of Oklahoma tossed in there and you know, just a bit of things. Love it. Well, I love it with the names, you know, there are different names of characters that are just meant to be a humorous in the names of business, you know, businesses and the titles of her articles and stuff like that. So I just had a lot of fun writing it. with titles of her articles and stuff like that. So I just had a lot of fun writing it. Hopefully people will have a lot of fun reading it. Hey, I'm sure we all will. Well, hey, thank you for writing a book

that we can laugh with, that we can read and get lost in. I think we need that right now. There's a lot of heavy answers, a lot going on. And what a great escape to read. And, you know, honestly, it also still get inspired though, because your work is so inspiring. And this book being about a girl who's using her voice to change a community.

And I just love what we said a second ago. You know, the enemy wants to silence your voice. Culture wants to silence your voice, but you've been given a voice to use. To change culture, to shape culture. And I love that heart behind this book for that reason. And I think it's awesome. And you do that with your voice so beautifully.

So for those who are listening, so obviously you gotta go read redeeming love if you haven't, you gotta see the movie. You gotta read the ladies mind. What other book would you say, okay, if you're getting into my work, this is where you should go next. I would say a voice in the wind

because that was the book when I was first a Christian and I was really struggling with how do I share my faith. You know I wanted so much to share my faith but most of the people in my life at that time were not Christians and they didn't want to hear about Christianity. And you know you get a lot of pushback. You know what happened to you. You know what happened to you? Why are you the way you are? I remember one gal I was coming back from a conference and we were talking about faith and they were literally mocking me and teasing me. I was driving and I thought, that's the way it is. A year later, one of the gal's that rode with me, wrote to me and she said, now I understand because now I'm like you, she'd become a Christian. Wow.

But it was in the early days, when you're first a Christian, you feel that pushback, and you're just kind of confused. Well, how do I share this passion I have now and this new life that I'm experiencing? I want all my friends to know about it. And so I would say that would be the place to start. That's awesome. That's so good. That was the one I wrote after redeeming love.

That's so good. Oh gosh, I'm so excited. I gotta go read that one because I haven't read that yet. I'm very excited now. And I love what you said. That's so true. I remember when I started doing ministry and some of my friends mocked me for it. And we're like, really? You're going to do a ministry

and how's that gonna work? That'll be a short live, that kind of thing. And then I remember a few years in, I was on tour and I was speaking and one of my friends who used to kinda make fun of me for this came to a night and at the end of the night she ended up saying a very similar thing that your friends and she cried and hugged me and said, I get it now and I'm so thankful for what you do.

And it was just awesome. And so I think when you stand true to who you are and when your faith is real and when I say real, not just something you say, like you said, not just because you're sitting at P you, but because your heart's changed, because you love God and you love people well and because you have joy and you have peace

and you have the goodness of God in you. I mean, that preach is louder than anything you can do, you know, and I just love that you are so such a gifted writer. And you've done all these things for 30 books and years and years and years, but but also you've led a Bible study for 30 years. And that to me is just like the most inspiring thing because I have a Bible study. I started about a year and a half ago and to think, you know, and's like the original version of redeeming love came out in the general market. And then I had grown as a Christian and I got the rights back. And then what I called the redeemed version of redeeming love is what's available now. That's awesome. I got the rights to the first one back, but I was able to put the conversion scene in.

I was able to take some things out that I thought were a little bit too edgy for the Christian market, but you're always growing and changing. And same with scripture, meets you right where you are. So in that 30 years, I mean, we've tended to,

the first time I read the Bible, I read through the one year Bible, which to me blew me away because I could hear God's voice in all of it. Because you're reading the Old Testament, the New Testament, a Psalm and a proverb, and you actually go through the Psalms and the Proverbs twice, but I could see where the Old New Psalm and they were all talking about the same thing. It was like, you knew it was being written by individual men who were inspired by God, but what I kept hearing was God's voice through all of it.

And that just blew me away. And I think every time you go through the Bible, there's so much there that, you know, it's always new, always new. Well, I want to ask you, last question, because I really could ask you a million questions, but this will be my last question. So as they're right or yourself as an author Reading the Bible Is that like a different experience for you? I mean, I'm sure you couldn't say it's different than anybody else because you don't know What anybody else reads or how they read it But what are some of the things in the Bible that stick out to you that maybe the next person wouldn't think about, but because you are an author yourself when you read, do you feel

like there's perspectives that you get that make you excited that maybe the average person who doesn't write for a living would even think about? Well, you know, when I tend to look at people, and I think, you know, a lot of times people look for doctrine, they look for how to, but I tend to look at the lessons that people are, because, you know, from the beginning to the very end of the Bible, it's always about the heart. It's always about God looking at our hearts and where our hearts are. And I did the lineage of grace, which is about the five women in the first chapter of Matthew. And then I thought, you know, I'd written it and and the show far blue, which had to do with churches.

And what is a church? What is a church? It's not just a building, it's the body of Christ. And out of that, I was really fascinated by five men from scripture and how they were kind of the back, back behind the leader, like Aaron instead of Moses. You know, we focus on Moses, but Moses, but Aaron, what was his part? And then you've got Caleb and Joshua.

Caleb was behind Joshua, and how did he influence Joshua? Jonathan and David. So I was more interested in Jonathan in the part he played in building the king, David. So that in Amos, I think that prophet Amos speaks to all of us today, he's a prophet for our time. And then Silas, who was the secretary to Peter and Paul, you know, traveled with them and saw all it was going on. So to me, it was fascinating how

important it is to have those people that you don't know that much about, but they're behind the scenes. And yet they're, they're really the foundation too. They're the ones that are holding up that leader and keeping that leader accountable, which we need accountability in the church. Yes. So I think I tend to look at the individual face in their life and how does that look and how does that have to do to me, how does that apply to my life? That's awesome. That's so good. Oh man, I'm excited to go read the Bible now and I'm excited to get to read all of your books. Well, Francine, thank you so much for being on the WoW That's Good Podcast. You have had several moments throughout this podcast that I have literally refrained from saying,

whoa, that's good. Just for the sake of not saying it a hundred times. But thank you. Thank you for all that you've done. Thank you for the movie, the books, just the heart that you have and the willingness you have to share it. We are so grateful and I've truly learned a lot today.

So thank you. Oh, thank you. It's a bit of pleasure. So good.