WHOA That's Good Podcast - Don't Let Insecurity & Doubt Steal Your Peace | Sadie Robertson Huff & Morgan Harper Nichols

Episode Date: February 9, 2022

Artist and writer Morgan Harper Nichols and Sadie take an in-depth look at navigating painful seasons, connecting with people by sharing our insecurities and uncertainty, and finding our way to true peace in the wilderness. Morgan shares how an autism diagnosis helped her explore what it means to be worthy of peace. They also explore how to find community, develop confidence, and give yourself permission to slow down and wait for God's timing. Morgan's new book, “Peace Is a Practice,” is available now!  - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

JLL believes you should expect more from your office space. So ask yourself, is your office space working as hard as you are? Does it foster collaboration, fuel productivity, and help build culture? Is it designed with intent? Is it a place you want to be? Your office can be a powerful asset, so put your office to work with JLL and see a brighter way. Learn more at jll.com slash Spotify. What's up fam? Welcome back to the one that's good podcast today on the podcast. I have

Morgan Harp one. I just totally totally. It's okay. It's a lot of ways. You know what, hilarious. We literally were just talking about before I even started this podcast about how I botched the words to a song of her sisters. And now here I am. And I'm pumbling your own name. Morgan Harp or Nichols, you are incredible. And I'm thankful to have you on the podcast. Oh, I'm excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Really, thank you. You know what's funny is after I got married,

Sadie Robertson became Sadie Robertson Huff and people do the same thing to me. There's always this confusion on. So what you say, Sadie Huff, Sadie Rob, Huff, all the things and stuff. Yes, welcome, welcome to the club of all the names. Right? You're trying to keep all the names in one place

and it's a little confusing. Well, I got to ask you the question. I ask everyone on this podcast, what is the best piece of advice that you've ever been given? Oh, I would say when I was younger, my parents, in different ways, they said it, but it was like all the way around the same time when I was six years old. And they said this to both my sister and I and they were like you were created to create

wow and I think that that just I mean when I look at my life and everything that's happened since then I was like yeah that was like foundational advice for my life that I still hold on to and I still think about regular basis so yeah I think that has to be the best advice. I would say that's carried you pretty far in life and that that's always I think when you look at the best piece of advice someone's been given it really does carry them throughout their life and so to see that that has been such a pivotal piece of advice for you and your sister and your family is just so creative, that's so cool. For those who don't know you, I know you have a huge following, so most people do know you.

And if you're watching this on YouTube, you're listed on Puck as you can't see, but if you're watching on YouTube, you can see all the beautiful artwork behind you. You are an incredible artist, poet, author, all the things. And so tell us a little bit about yourself, about your creations that you've made, and just a journey that you've been on. Yeah, so I am a visual artist and also music artist and a poet and writer. So lots of words, lots of arts, in a lot of different ways. Honestly a lot of what I do can be summed up into that. So over the past few years, I just have the opportunity to Make art that are part of different collections and target friends and nobles and things with journals and artwork and all that kind of fun stuff

So yeah, a lot of ways like I'm doing stuff that I feel like six-year-old me will be really happy about So I just make a lot of art and I put it out there and I'm very blessed that other people connect with it. That's so cool. You know what's crazy is today I was watching this video of me whenever I was five, which was so random that you mentioned that about your six year old self because at five years old I was literally preaching on this table to my parents and I said in this video I said even if I'm famous one day I'm not going to think about me I'm going to give it to God and I was just like giving this message at five years old and now here I am at 24 years old doing the same thing and sometimes I do think

that man God just put this originality in us at this young age and for everyone like that that part of our virginity is a part of our purpose right and you see that bleed through and every year of your life and when you look back you're like man I think I've been doing this since I was six and maybe that's God just preparing you to do the thing that you're gonna do well. I think that is so so cool. I actually saw on your YouTube video that you were talking about how, you know, people might have this perspective of an entrepreneur or an influencer and I think, okay, well, this person

just has always done this or they always wanted to do this. And sometimes it's actually a little bit more to us, more of the story to that. Maybe there's some hard things that you have to go through in order to get to the place that you're at. And I love that you shared that because I do think that people have this perspective of influencers online that, you know, that would be the easy way out. That would be the way to live your life because that would just mean you just made it

and everything's easy. But you kind of talk about how it was, it was hard. And so can you share your story of becoming this influential person, this entrepreneur type person and how that really started. Yeah, so I definitely, you know, like many people these days, like I grew up with, in my early teen years, like, I mean, I'm a little older, so social, social media was my space. But even like if my space wasn't your first sort of introduction, it's like a lot of us at this point have spent very formative years of our life like being online in some capacity and just even the idea of like having a profile and what's on that profile and who's seeing it and all that. It's been a part of a lot of our lives. So in that way like I don't

feel like I'm being different than anyone else in that. I was just exposed to it and I saw it and became a part of our lives, um, in my life, and I was in my teenage years. And I really struggled with, because at the same time, I knew I was very creative and I like to make things, not like to share, but I never felt like I could really find like my groove, if you will, like putting my art out there. And I even went through a whole phase of like I don't eat the internet. I'm just gonna do things the old-fashioned way and just like this is not going to be music. Just go out there and try to play shows and try to do music but I ended up discovering that like and I think this is something that a lot of people don't realize. It's like, not everything is for everybody.

So not all musicians are just designed to perform live shows. Like, I have a sister who's very high energy. I mean, she can do hundreds of dates in a year. And I can do like three or five. Yeah. And so I really struggled with like, how do you find that balance between like feeling like you're called to create but also

Like not always feeling like you can keep up with everything So I was starting to feel that way in like the the real world But then I was also starting to feel that way online because I just felt like I was seeing people on Instagram and YouTube who are Doing all these amazing things with the photography and the art and I was just like I just can't keep up with everyone like I just always felt like I was behind but at the same time I love to share so it was just this it was just constant conflict between wanting to share and not really knowing how not really knowing how to connect with people. So I would say that it was probably

from age like 14 to 27, which is me going back and forth to eat a lot of different things. So many different blogs and Instagram accounts and my photographer and my this and my not in my blog are all this stuff. So yeah, that was a very long time. And then when I was 27, I got, I'm sorry, 26, when I was 26, I just got so overwhelmed. And I was just like, I'm tired, trying stuff, and stuff not working out. And I ended up writing a poem about that feeling. And that is the thing that ended up going viral. And it got written over 100,000 times. ended up going viral and it got repaid over 100,000 times. So it was fascinating to me because it was like, wow, all along, the thing that was going to connect with people was not having it figured out, but it was about talking about

not having it figured out. Wow. And that ended up being the thing that I was like, oh, so I can just share from my own doubt and security and uncertainty. And the way that I write, like, I don't even always share like the specific details of my story, but I talk about the feelings

because in one way or another, we're always dealing with some kind of uncertainty, so many people are dealing with some kind of insecurity or a question in their life. So I was like, yeah, I'm just gonna focus on talking about that and the race that we can find within that. So yeah. J-L-L believes you should expect more from your office space. So ask yourself, is your office space working as hard as you are?

Does it foster collaboration, fuel productivity, and help build culture? Is it designed with intent? Is it a place you want to be? Your office can be a powerful asset, so put your office to work with JLL and see a brighter way. Learn more at jll.com slash Spotify. Yeah, wow, that's so beautiful. And people connect with those feelings. I remember my sister wrote this book and it's a poetry book. And she was so nervous about putting it out because she was like, when I put this out,

everyone's gonna see me. Like they're gonna see my flaws, they're gonna see the things that I went through. And I told her I said, Bella, you know what's interesting is that when people read a book, just like when you read someone else's book, you're never thinking, oh, the author went through this, you're thinking, that is my story.

That's me. That's what I went through. And people really don't need another person to be perfect. They don't need to see another person who's filtered and perfect and flawless because it's really unrelatable. But people need to see people who, like you, are like, hey, I don't have it all figured out. I'm sitting here for the past 10 years trying to figure it out. And someone else say, wow, that's me too.

And I think that's so inspiring. And I also think it's so inspiring that you would share the timeline from 14 to 26 because I think in this same age, people just want things to happen so fast. And the reality is, that's just not the way most things work. You know, I think we see them as fast from our perspective because, you know, you might see someone on social media make a post and it's like, all of a sudden it was like, everything's great, but

you don't know like that was five years on the making. You know, you don't know, you don't see the struggle, you don't see the making of it. And so I think that that is so beautiful. I want to talk about your new book. And I'm going to go ahead and bring this up because there's a question in there. I want to go ahead and get to, but you have a new book coming out next week of a time this podcast comes out. It's called Peace is a Practice. The invitation to breathe deep and find a new rhythm in life. And I know that just by saying that title, people out there are like, yes, give it to me. I need to know how to make peace of practice in my life. I want to talk to you though about just that aspect

of what your purpose is because you talk about how so many young people and people of age fill pieces out of grass because they don't know their purpose yet and don't know how to find their purpose. You say rather than focusing on getting every detail right for the unknown future, you can go deeper into the details of the story that's already been written. And I thought that was so beautiful.

Can you kind of speak to that aspect of, speak to the person right now who's having this purpose anxiety of, I don't know what my future looks like. I don't wanna wait 10 years. I don't know how to figure it out, you know? Speak to that person who's kind of in that anxious midst right now. Oh, yes, yes.

So I feel like I can really relate to that because that is my story. And I spit, like you said, I spent so many years getting caught up in the details of like, what do I do? Who am I? What are the words that I'm going to put in the bio? Like that say, this is who I I am and this is what I do. And it was only when I recognized that,

that's actually not what's filling me. What's fueling all of this is knowing what's been meet the layers and knowing what's driven, what's been carrying me all along. And for me, that was grace and seeing God's grace woven through my life. And I was like, I need to make my purpose of what I do about what's been there all along. And that needs to be the purpose. The purpose is to share grace with others. And it was by focusing on that first that I then began to see,

oh, sharing grace with others through art. Oh, well, sometimes I do that through writing. Oh, well, sometimes I do that through, oh, wow, we're living in a apartment. And my neighbor next door is being really, really, really, really loud and not going next door and like being upset about it. And just saying, hey, let's just see how this plays out. really really really really loud and not going next door and like being upset about it and just saying hey let's just see how this plays out you know it's like there's so many different

ways that I can be to the point that even when I'm not creating even when I'm not sharing even if all these platforms and ways of a sharing win a way tomorrow that that great stays the same and I can still share from that place. So to me that I feel like I want to talk about that more because I hope that it could take that pressure off of like you're not going to have all the details like it's not there's not a single person on this planet that has all the details and has always known exactly what they were doing how they were going to do it. It's not a single person doesn't matter who you look at. So what we all have in common is that we're all learning as we go. So let's focus on what grounds us first and then from there we can

continue to try new things without constantly having to worry about how it's going to play out. Because I honestly feel like if somebody told me when I was, when I'm, so I'm about, I know, how it's gonna play out. Cause like I honestly feel like if somebody told me when I was, when I'm, so I'm a, but I'm 32, about to turn 32 in a few days. And if someone had told me when I was 22, that, hey, so you're gonna be living in Arizona and you're gonna be making abstract art and you're gonna be writing poetry

and you're gonna be talking on the sing-haw to podcast. I would have been like, no, no, I'm not. Like, that is not a part of my team, you're gonna be writing poetry and you're gonna be talking on the sing hall to podcast. I would have been like no no I'm not like that is not a part of my 10-year plan. I'm a 2nd musician. I never would have thought that I would be where I am today and it's so fascinating. I'm like well what is that story now? You know what's that story for me at 32 year old Morgan? What if 42 year old Morgan could talk to me now is say, hey, here's what you're gonna be doing. I'm probably going, no, I'm not. That's crazy.

That's what I'm like. So it's like, I can't, as much as I want to be able to see that blueprint, I can't. I have to learn how to lean into the grace that helps me move through every aspect of that blueprint as I learn it. That's so good.

Wow, I love that so much. Bob Goff says something that I think is so good. He says, always keep your 10 years younger of yourself in mind and 10 years ahead of yourself in mind because then you'll give yourself grace for where you're at, you know. Yeah. And I think that that is so true. It's like, okay, I'm not where maybe I'm going and I'm not where I used to be, but man, right here is a good place to be, you know. I love that aspect of grace and I saw one of your YouTube videos. I love your little

pockets of videos, the short ones, and you said you had this artwork and you said, I love this piece of art, not necessarily because it's like the best piece ever, but because you weren't critical of yourself when you were doing it. And I think that, you know, people look at you and you've made it into Target, Barnes and Noble, all these big places. You are clearly such a talented artist, but to hear that you still even struggle with being your own worst critic, how do you get to the place that you feel confident enough to let your work be seen, even whenever you're still wrestling through that critical aspect of your own work.

Oh yeah, that's such a good question. So I am huge on creating time and space between create creativity and sharing. So when I paint something, for instance, you know, you can see that there are paintings behind me. I haven't, I painted those I think three months ago and I still haven't officially shared them because I recognize that I need this thing to exist. Like, as something, like, because I think I believe that when I'm creating something, yes, I'm creating it to share with others, but a lot of times through the stuff I create, God has speaking to me through what I've created totally. So I'm even with these paintings, I was hoping to make these paintings from a place of joy,

and just trying to create joyful paintings, just with joyful colors that just fostered a sense of joy. And I'm like, I need to experience that joy before I worry about other people experiencing it. So I have a role for myself. I typically, the minimum is 24 hours between when I create something and share it, but the max will sometimes be months, or even I've gone as far as a year. Like, I have like a little video that I've been working on and I'm like, it's just not quite ready yet. I've been working on this video for like seven months. So I'm a huge believer in that

because I think that especially as the world becomes more complicated and we feel so rushed to like speak about the infrastructure savings in real time. We have to give ourselves permission to say, no, we don't have to move that fast and we can paste ourselves through it. So it's been really cool because I had a moment where it was on Valentine's Day of 2020. I got for the first time, I got to see, it was like a painted quilt that I did on display in an anthropology store and it was just a huge moment for me. I was just like I could die now like

I mean that I never like I was even happened so it was a huge moment for me but it was so surreal because I was like the artwork that's in that particular on that shirt in that display. I was like I made that two years before for somebody who had de-empt me and I was like here's something I just made with you in mind. I did not make that ever that it would turn into you know a product or any of that. I was like I literally just made this for that one person in that one moment. And it's like, yeah, I can't take the credit for what happened. I was like, that was for me, that was God working through all those details to bring that to

fruition two years later. So I always just try to remind myself of that because now, now I'll have moments, I'm like, ooh, I wonder if this is going to be, you know Big or or this is going to be my next thing and I'm almost always wrong Oh me too me too. It's the things that you think this might make it that don't get attention and the things that you're doing for your friend That happens to get out there that is the thing and I think that's so cool I love that you shared that and actually I think that's so cool. I love it. You shared that. And actually, I'm working on this message right now that I'm about to put out about David and just his anointing

and how he was anointed, but then he went back to being with the sheep, right? And then I love how there's this moment where the King saw they need someone to play music for him and how someone in the palace was like oh well Jesse's son like he plays music like he's really good We should bring him in and adjust some kind of making this point that David didn't have to promote himself, right? Like he was just gifted he was just doing his thing. He was literally out there with the sheet playing his music

Being faithful to what he had and then he gets brought into the palace And he didn't have to promote himself. He didn't have to strive. He didn't have to push it. He didn't have to schedule a meeting with the king. Like it was just God put a gifting on his life and God did the promotion. You know, God put the breath behind it.

And I think that that really is when you get to that place where you just trust God with the gift that he's given you and the timing that, you know, this gift is going to get out to people. Even if that timing is one person or a million people or a hundred people, like waiting on His timing is so worth it. And I just love your story. I think it's just going to bring so much life to so many people because what you're saying

is so obtainable. It's just living. it's just breathing, and it goes so much along with what you write in the book. I want to talk about this other quote that you said. For even when we haven't seen the other side of the issue we are facing, we are so worthy of breathing deep, and knowing peace is right here,

amid, sorry, right here, amid them. And I love how you talk about how we're worthy of knowing peace. So what do you feel like? Why do you feel like you wanted to get this message out of reminding people that, hey, you're worthy of feeling this peace because you're so right how you talk about how people are so quick to feel like I have to get this out. I have to post every single day or the algorithm or change or I have to grind, I have to hustle and you're saying actually, no, you're worthy of just waiting.

You're worthy of just like resting. You're worthy of God speaking to you before you are having to put it out to the world. And so what's that message for you that you're telling people like actually you're worthy of peace. How'd that hit you in your own life? Oh, yeah. So for me, I mean, that was very, very personal because so a year ago I actually received a diagnosis that I'm autistic. And it was during that, I missed everything, like, I mean that was a huge life altering moment for me.

And for me it was a very empowering and healing thing to have those answers. And to have that language for what I have been going through. And my specialist says something to me that will always stand out to me. And after giving me my formal diagnosis, she said, and it's not your fault and I just started bawling like like I'm actually not surviving who just cries a lot like this sort of spread of people but I just started bawling because I realized in that moment I was like I've been putting so much pressure on myself and even though I hadn't told myself like hey it's your fault but I've been putting so much pressure on myself to take full responsibility for all of the pressures, all of the stresses, everything that was going on

is saying, this is my problem to fix. It's all on me, it's all on me. And if I often felt like if I couldn't sort through my anxiety or the stress that I was dealing with, then it was my fault. And then I was unworthy of experiencing peace. And then I couldn't take a deep breath until I figured everything out. So that moment became a starting point for me to really explore what it meant to breathe deep

without having the answers. Breathe deep without knowing how everything was going to come together and knowing that's like, yeah, you're worthy of that because your body was literally created to breathe. And that's not something that is held back from you when there's uncertainty in your life. That's something that you still have access to

even when you're in in your life. That's something that you still have access to, even when you're in a low place. So I just found that to be very, very, very healing and peaceful to even think about, even when I think about writing for people that I don't know. I'm like, I don't know what those uncertainties are in your life, but I do know, as long as you're here breathing, that's something that you were given on purpose. So, keep taking those deep breaths. Yes, it's so often that the gifts that we have, that we use so often that God's given us, like we take them for granted, right? Like breathing, breathing something that you dress

are like, oh yeah, I just do that because that's just what I do. But breathing is such a gift and putting intention behind your breath really is so important. I remember just echoing what you're saying, that that breath really can take you a long way. I remember whenever I was on dance with the stars, I'm 17 years old and I'm feeling like the stress of the world and the pressure of everybody

knowing who I am now and having to perform well and all this stuff. And I was so tense, like literally so tense. And I didn't know how tense I was until one day they brought in this, basically like massage person, but he was like, chiropractor doctor. He was just trying to help everyone who had like been injured because all of us were injured at that point. And I lay down for him to kinda work on me.

And when I lay down, he's like, relax. And I'm like, I ain't relaxed. And he said, your butt's not touching the ground. I was like, oh my gosh, I literally was not, like my back and my butt were completely off the table. I was that tense and I didn't even realize it. And he said, you're a Christian, right? And I said, yes. And he said, you're a Christian, right? And I said, yes.

And he said, you know, God breathed life into existence. And he said, I want you to take some time right now before I do anything. And I want you to breathe life into every part of your body. I want you to intentionally think about your arms. And I want you to breathe life into them. And I want you to think about your legs. I want you to breathe life.

And I said there, gosh it like it just, I can't even tell you how powerful that moment was. It's to the point I still remember it, you know, that I just said there and breathe, intentional breath into each part of my body and I felt so much rest and that was like a very physical representation of what you're saying of, know breathing and I love that actually that story came to mind as soon as I read your subtitle the invitation to breathe deep and find a new rhythm because it really just sets you back to that place of peace when you just take a breath and so I love that and I saw your video on you being diagnosed with autism and

I thought it was so powerful that you shared that saw your video on you being diagnosed with autism. And I thought it was so powerful that you shared that because people look at you and you know are so inspired by you and for you to share something that's so relatable to so many people and then to see like look at all the stuff you're doing, look at how you've still pushed on and done, done all these things with the challenges that you face. And I love how you posted. You said that as soon as you posted that you were diagnosed with autism people were like messaging your family and saying like I'm so sorry to hear about Morgan and all this and how

you were really bothered by that as I can see as you should be and I feel like people you know might be in that same position where they were diagnosed with something or something unfortunate maybe might seem unfortunate to the outside world was happened to them and people like feel sorry for them and they're like wait no like don't look at me like that can you just speak to that person kind of from your experience of what that did when people said that and maybe a better way for people to respond when it comes to people being diagnosed with something like that. Oh, yes.

Yes. And thank you for speaking to that because it is a very, it's been a very interesting journey just seeing some of the responses that people have had because it's like, yes, being autistic does come with many challenges, but at the same time, like the messages by family members are getting, it's not like, I passed away. Yeah. I'm still here. I'm still the same person you've always known.

And it was, it was just very interesting. And I was like, oh wow, for some people, just because of their lack of knowledge, like they see this as something and it's like, oh wow, like her life is just really going downhill. And I don't want to negate it all, that you know, because autism is a spectrum, there are people who, their day to day life looks a lot different than what my data life looks like. And yes, there are real challenges and struggles. And that, you know, there aren't even all my experiences. However, at the same time, it's like I, I, and, and just in learning from other autistic people who have been sharing

is that it's very valuable that we see people in a more holistic way and that we don't just see people for Oh, okay, here's a diagnosis and everything that is quote unquote wrong with them. And it's like, here's what makes this person, you know, able to get the support that they meet and able to get the help and the language around their story. So yeah, it's something I am definitely still learning how to talk about because, you know, even I remember being so nervous and and we were just sharing about your experience on dancing that the star is like being so nervous when It's like it's almost like when you feel like you're you're doing something new that you've never done before but then you're doing it in front of everybody Yeah, so that is Yeah, and that's how I felt with sharing my diagnosis.

I was like, I was so afraid that I was like going to get the terminology wrong or you know that I was going to just say the wrong thing or not capitalize the right word or forget a comma and it gets misinterpreted. It's so true. And it's like, wow, it takes a lot, it's so much pressure to One, just go through that process, but to to share it. So it's definitely something I'm still figuring out But that's why I'm committed to sharing it because I want to show people the realness of it I'm like, yeah, I'm still learning how to

Respond to what other people say like I haven't figured that out, you know, just because I have books out there and followers and stuff. I didn't figure that stuff out. I'm a human and I'm figuring this out. I was like, oh, so that was my biggest hope of sharing that, just showing people, like, yeah, this is what it's been like and it's something that I'm still working through and I'm still dealing with every day.

Well, thank you for sharing that. And I love how you've said so many times in this podcast that you're still learning and you're a learner. I'm like the biggest advocate for always saying a learner in a student of life. And I think with social media there's almost this pressure that everyone has to be an expert. And it's like we're just not experts at everything. You know, there are very few people who can actually say they're an expert at something.

And even they are still learning in so many other areas of life. And it's okay to give yourself that grace to say, I don't know what all this means. And I love how also you're saying, like you didn't change. Like yes, it was a big life changing moment for you, but you're still the same person.

And I do think that sometimes we have this tendency in our culture to just peg people as one thing, and their whole identity becomes wrapped around this one thing. And we are just so much more unique than that. We all just have so much more to us. So more well-rounded than that, you know? And so yeah, that might be a part of who you are. And that's a part of your story.

That's not everything, you know? And so I love that you're just sharing that. There's such freedom in that, you know? I love it. One thing you do talk about is about just like the difficulty of finding community as an adult. And that's for everybody. And I, I spent something I've been talking about a lot as well.

And so how do you do it? You know, you're a mom, you're a wife, you're a busy, you're an artist. What is that journey look like for you? Morgan Harper Nichols to find community because I have found that people think that if you have a lot of followers you have good community Immediately and that's not true. It's still hard for people to build community And so what does that look like and do you have any advice for people who are seeking that community in their own life? Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I'm so glad you brought that up because that is something that I am very passionate about and

I'm somebody who grew up, I mean from a very young age, I struggle with making friends. And one of the biggest things that was, one, it was just being autistic for me, that was something that made a challenging for me to find friends. And then also too, I am a preacher's kid and I distinctly remember hearing kids like, tell my sister and I why they didn't want to be friends with us because you know we were we were the preacher's kids and all you know y'all are so it was just all kinds of just wild assumptions that were made and that often left me just feeling very alone and

even as I got older that's something I still struggled with. So one area that I've really found a lot of peace in my life when it comes to friendship and community is that regardless of what I see online or in media or in movies or even in other people's life, is that there is no certain number of people that you have to be able to call friends and hang out with as a group of friends that makes that community valid. Some of my best friends right now are friends who live all over the place. True. We barely ever see each other anymore. True. We just text, like, we'll respond to each other's text like a whole month and a half after the first one said the text and it's like that's okay that is community too. It's

like seeing a whole bunch of people in a photo together taking a group photo. It's just one version of what community can look like. Yeah and I just I want to talk about that more and I wrote it I wrote in my book an actual practice that I've Incorporated to remind myself of this and I want to share with others and that is this concept of Creating your own personal bibliography. So if you look in the back of a lot of nonfiction books You'll see where they referenced other authors and you'll see like the all the you know annotations of all these different people and one day I was looking at one of these bibliographies in a book and I noticed that a lot of the authors that were mentioned I was like oh these authors all

kind of reference each other I was like they're kind of like a community of authors and I was like isn't that interesting I'm like I don't even know if these people are real-life friends or if they hang out, but they are a part of a community of people who are on the same page and writing about the same thing. So what I did was I bought myself like a hard, like a really thick, bad hard-bound journal. And've started my own bibliography of just writing down all the little notes of people that have either read songs that I've heard and people that I've met in my life that I'm not even hang out with anymore but who have impacted my life in some way and the advice or the wisdom and the words that are spoken to me. And I'm like that too, this community. It's also a form of community to just be able to look back and see,

wow, I've been able to encounter all this wisdom, all these moments of being seen in the special way. So yeah, all about just exploring all the different ways that we can have community. That is so cool. I want to do that. Like, I love learning from other people, which is a part of why I started a podcast because I want to learn from people I love learning from other people, which is part of why I started a podcast because I want to learn from people's advice.

Even we have this wall out there that I'll go right advice that I heard from someone in the podcast or someone in life. I just love that. When you look at the notes on my phone, it's just things people have said, even my friends are like, I was not lunch with this person. They said this, but I need a book to put that in. It's so true because community, it's like a reminder that you're not alone, you know? And so even that, like you said, is an aspect of community knowing that,

hey, I'm not alone in this world. I've learned from this person or that person. And it was actually funny yesterday I was doing this podcast. And I was like, oh, one time my mentor told me and I said, actually, that's not true. I heard this girl on the stage say this and I took it very personally. I'm not a mentor.

She's just like speaker who I heard one time. But I've viewed it as so personal and that's the community. Oh, my God. So I love that you said that. Last thing I want to ask you about, I just thought this was such a good point. You wrote that if it's peace we are looking for getting into the gritty details of our

feelings and experiences is where we should start. And I think so many people have this perspective of peace that if you want peace just go take a nap, right? Just go on vacation, go sit on the beach somewhere like that's peace, but true peace is really not just resting, it's not just sleeping the day away. And in fact, what you put is almost opposite. It's getting into that gritty details

to work through those feelings. And so how has getting into the gritty details for you led you to peace? And what's your encouragement for people who might fear that aspect of peace? Yeah. It's what I found is that, you know, in one way or another in our lives, we're all in some kind of wilderness. And the way that we find peace in that wilderness is not ignoring the wilderness.

It's not saying, oh, wow, feels so good to not be in the wilderness. And you're very much so in the wilderness. So what I found though is that when you slow down in the wilderness and you accept that this is where I am, oftentimes if you slow down and listen, you can start to hear and you're traveling through, you might just hear a river, you might just hear the rush of the river, find your way to the river in the wild. That is what peace is. It's not the annihilation of discomfort. It doesn't mean everything that goes away. It's saying, hey, this is the reality of where we are, of where I am.

And at the same time, I am free to practice seeking out that river and what I love about rivers is that they're not just like you can't just like in most places but for most of us like we can't just look out the window and just see a beautiful flowing river by a darker window some people can't and that's amazing but for a lot of us we see sidewalks or concrete or grass and a river is something we have to take time to go out and seek and find if we want to see it. And that is why I like to think of peace,

like a river, I think it's a song in itself, peace like a river because it reminds us that, yeah, right here right now, I'm just everything that's going on, peace is something that we can practice finding our way to. So that is what I hope to communicate and show with other people, is that the reason why piece is possible is not because we can figure out everything

in the present moment, piece is possible because we can find grace in the present moment to keep finding those moments to breathe. So, wow. I must say, whoa whoa that's good on that one that's so good I love that well I have enjoyed this conversation so much I'm honestly learned so much and want to take so many of these things and put them into practice in my own life friends if you like this conversation this is just like a we're just scratching the surface of this book that she has coming out next week piece is a practice the invitation to breathe deep and find a new rhythm in life.

Girl, you're amazing. I'm so thankful for the influence that you have. I'm so thankful for the art that you create and put out into the world. And thank you so much for taking the time and being on the world that's going to podcast. Yes, and thank you as well. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much.