WHOA That's Good Podcast - Finding Peace In the Unknown | Sadie Robertson Huff | Rachael Lampa

Episode Date: September 16, 2026

Singer, songwriter, and mom Rachael Lampa opens up about letting go of the career she thought she wanted and trusting God to lead her into something even better. She and Sadie talk about finding peace in hard decisions, discovering new purpose through serving others, and returning to music with open hands instead of pressure. Rachael shares the beautiful story of her son Leo, who was born with Down syndrome, and how he completely reshaped the way her family sees joy, hope, and what the world calls limitations.  This Episode of WHOA That's Good is Sponsored By: https://nutrafol.com — Get $10 off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you use promo code WHOA at checkout! https://www.liberty.edu/Sadie - Get your application fees waived and enter the $50,000 Sadie Scholarship Giveaway for a chance to win one of multiple scholarships!! https://helixsleep.com/sadie — Get 27% off sitewide and make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Well friends, we just wrapped up on L.O. Sister Conference a few days ago, and I'm so proud of our team. The girls poured so much into making it so special. And those weeks leading up to it were very full. Let me just tell you. So having great snacks and lunches delivered to our office without us having to think about it was honestly such a game changer. That's one reason why I love having Hungaroo at the L.O. office. We order it for the team. And I love seeing the girls trying to eat things and find favorites that everybody gets excited about. There's over 1,000 grocery items plus tons of quick meal options, so it keeps things so easy without getting too boring. You know what? To spice it up.

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but that's not going to run on our parade. We have Rachel Lampa on the podcast, and Fran, I am so excited that you're here. Hello, hello. I'm so excited to, and I think it's kind of, like, it was definitely a first of mine, like, where I, because I had already started to fly towards you. I know, I know. It was so bad. I felt so bad. Don't, though, don't, though, because here's what I got to do. I got to sit in the sky for 30 minutes because it's only a 30 minute flight. Okay, good. In the dark, listening to what I wanted to listen to, watching what I wanted to listen. And then I got off, I got a cheeseburger, a massage. A 15 minute massage. That's awesome.

Okay. And then I turned back around and then I sat in the sky again. Oh my gosh. Okay. So it was a little less bad. That is mom. You know what's so funny. So whenever I texted my teammate because we were getting sick, my daughter had just gotten over COVID and no one else had any symptoms.

And this is like five days have gone by. Isn't that the worst when that happens? Yeah. You're at the end of it. And then someone else gets it. So I'm thinking we're in the clear all as well. And then I start feeling bad. I started to notice my one-year-old going down.

Christian starts feeling bad. I'm like, oh, no. Then my grandma calls me. She's like, I have COVID. And I'm like, oh, we for sure. Like, it's all starting back again. So then I know, like, we're contagious. So I just said, I'm like, I can't do this to you.

So I text my teammate and I'm like, hey, what's her flight status? At this point, it's like 6 p.m. And you're supposed to be here tonight. So I figure like, you're already here. And they're like, she's in the air. And I'm like, to Monroe or Atlanta. So Atlanta, I'm like, okay. I'm like, well, if she wants to come and just have a getaway night, that would be great.

And I could be in the other room, but it worked out. It worked out the way it's meant to be. I'm glad you got a cheeseburger. I'm glad you got a massage. I'm glad you made it back home. And now we're doing this virtually. And I just want to tell our listeners a little bit of the backstory that I was telling you because it's so sweet. I saw you at Caleb, but didn't get to meet you.

But I actually remember hearing your name and be like, I got to meet her. And Lauren was telling me how great you are because I was like, I don't think I met her before. And the Caleb team was even telling me how great you are. And also I was like, oh, that's awesome. Well, hopefully we run into each other. But that award show is just so full. And we're hosting. I had my kids there.

It was just crazy. You had so much. Oh, my gosh. It's crazy. So like two weeks go by. And some people who listen to this podcast a lot have heard me talk about how to mentor in my younger 20s years. that really helped shape my life and was just such a blessing. But I hadn't seen her in a really long time because, you know, I got married, had kids,

we moved. And she called me. And she was like, hey, I want to ask you something. And I had no idea what she was going to ask. And she was like, you know, I, you know, pray for you so much and cheer your family on. And she said, and she's never done anything like this. She's never, you know, 400 episodes of podcast. You never been like, you should have somebody on.

Oh, my God. you should have Rachel Lampa on your podcast. And she doesn't even know you either, which I just thought was really sweet. She knows of you and I think met you at one point. But she said, you know, y'all just have so many similarities and the moms that you are and the women of faith that you are. And she said, I've kind of tracked her journey from the music she used to put out and what she's doing now.

And I just think y'all would have a great conversation. She said, and that's all. And I'm just going to pray for it. And I was like, oh, that's so sweet. And so the Lord has just been in this. Yeah, it really is cool. I'm so excited. And I just love, I love when people hear from God and then they just act. Like, they just go and they, and they, you know, they say, I believe that that was your voice, God. And I believe that there's a reason. And I just, I love that. Like, I'm, I'm,

inspired by that because I'm like, there are probably five things on my brain that I'm like, oh, I should really tell somebody that or I should really, I should really act on that thing. And it's so awesome that she did that. Isn't that so true? Yeah. That is so, that has, that happened to me yesterday. Someone texted me and they were like, hey, this is so random. I just like felt the Lord put it on my heart. Let me just encourage you. It was so exactly what I needed to hear. And so you're so right. It's like when we have those little prompts, maybe sometimes we just talk ourselves out of it or we just get busy and we forget. But like when it's the Lord and he keeps putting it on you and nudging you, like you never know how it's going to bless

somebody. And so I just, I love that. Well, we have so much to talk about. But I always ask every guests we have on the podcast, especially for the first time, the same question. And it is a big one. But Rachel, what is the best piece of advice you've ever been given? Okay. Okay, I'm so grateful that this is being asked because it made me kind of go like, like I had to kind of dig a little bit because it's one of those things where you're like, I kind of live my life like in constant fear of being asked that question. No, it's so true. Yeah. It's actually. I know that when I get asked that question, it's not going to come, but I'm so happy that you ask. So it's a tie for me. Can I do? Can I do like? Please do two. Okay. Or three. It doesn't matter. It gives all the advice. I like, I couldn't decide. But okay, so one is actually from my mom. And she told me this. I remember we were in a hotel room. I was 17 or 18. I was on the road. I was traveling and touring back then. And my mom was with me. And she was actually. my parents were going through a divorce.

And I just was so confused and had all these questions and all these fears. And I just remember she just said, whatever that is, God won't waste your pain. And I just was like, God won't waste my pain.

Like for some reason, hearing that as a teenager, because you just think that pain is in the equals wrong. You know, and you think that like, you know, you just think that, okay, I got to get out of this immediately. I have to, this is the, this is a bad place to be. And I think I realize like, okay, so, you know, so being, being in pain, having pain, that doesn't mean that, that the rest of the trajectory from now on is, is the wrong, the wrong way, the wrong place, the wrong, whatever. So,

God won't waste your pain. That was, that was one of my biggest ones. And I actually wrote a song about that right after she told me that. Yes. But the other one is actually from Amy Grant. I was on a Christmas tour with her and Michael L.B. Smith and she put my hair in curlers. She full on like sat with me in a mirror and took all the time that it does take to put your hair in curlers because I've never done that. And she just like slowly put my hair in curlers. And I have this picture of me just like, I can't believe this is happening right now. On, like, highlight of life. That is so epic.

I know so epic. But she also, she said something to me in that time. And I couldn't fully remember it because I just remember the moment being so special and so beautiful. But I texted her last week and then I saw her last night, actually. Wow. And I got to thank her and tell her that I'm going to repeat what she said. Wow.

She told me that when she was first having kids and life was so crazy and she said her career was especially crazy at the time, that she felt like she couldn't formulate a good prayer. And she felt like her prayer life was really hard. And especially with her kids and praying over her kids. And what am I even doing? And so her mother-in-law at the time, her first mother-in-law told her this prayer. And she said, it says, lead me to those I need. Lead me to those who need me. And let something I do have eternal significance.

Wow. And I just thought that's like such a packed prayer. Wow. Yeah. Lead me to those I need. Like what a beautiful, like, because that's such a big part of it. And that's okay to ask for, you know, because I think we sometimes we're like, you know, it's give, give, but it's like, this is our time to like.

ask God to lead us in that direction too. And then lead me to those who need me and let something, something that I do have eternal significance. Wow. I love that. That's so good. Okay. This is starting strong. Well,

that's good times two. I love that it's from your mom to you in a time that like she was going through something really hard and saying like your pain, you know, God's not going to waste this. And I feel like whenever you are little, you think like your parents, I don't know if you felt this way, but like in some ways, you just, you know, you're expecting them to tell you how to get through it. And you just think like they're just, they just know how to get through it.

They got it. And then you become the mom and you're like, oh my gosh, like they were scared. Like they were hurting. They were, because, yeah, now I'm the mom and I just like, how did this happen, you know? And so I feel like that's so cool that she was encouraging me with something that was probably equally encouraging to her. And I've like found that to be true now in parenting. Like, even my kids are so little.

But the things I'm saying to them, I'm like, I actually, like, needed to hear that for me. And I'm challenging myself to believe that and walk that out as an example to you one day, you know? So that's just, like, really cool that you saw her in that state of her life. And something she spoke over you is, like, so hope-filled. And while she was in pain. Yeah, right. Like, because I think about this, she was probably the age-ish that I am right now. Wow.

I'm 41 now and I think she, I was like 17, 18 then. So I think it was around the same time. And I just, I think about, you know, how like, you know, how much we have to do as parents, like, when we're in pain and when we're, when we're sad and when we're uncertain or insecure and we're teaching them about being, loving themselves. And we're like, you know, I love myself. Yep, yeah, yeah. It's very challenging when you're like, oh, or you hear them say something that you know they kind of got for. from you and you're like, do that sound like that? Okay.

I'm going to work on my tone a little bit. Yeah, no, it's so true. But what a beautiful example. I love that. Thank you for sharing. I'm so stoked to hear about your story. Your story is like it's fun whenever you go, even on your Spotify and you can kind of like see the journey.

It was like all this older stuff and then like all this new stuff. So there's clearly like a story there. But first I want to hear like, when did you start singing? When did you know that God had kind of given you that gift? I feel like there are certain routines you get really consistent about because you can actually tell when they're making a difference. And hair health is definitely one of those things where the little things you do every day can really add up over time. Nutraful is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. And there's some serious research behind you too.

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Again, that's NutraFol.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com with the promo code, whoa. I was like my mom would claim that it was before I was talking. Wow. Which actually now I believe it. I always always like, oh, that's cute mom. That's a cute thing to say. But now I believe it because I have a three-year-old that doesn't have words, but he sings. And we can go, we'll talk lots about him.

Yeah, we'll talk about. Superpower. That's the thing. Yes, exactly. I was like, that's the thing that my mom was talking about. And I think, yeah, I remember as far back as I can remember being in my room and just recording myself on my my little like cassette. For most people listening,

that is this little rectangular situation that you would put into another rectangular situation. Thank you. We needed that. Pause for definition for Ginzy. That's great. Oh, my gosh. But yes, as long as I can remember, I sing.

So my mom would say three. I started performing when I was five at, you know, at church. and just remember coming off stage and being like, when do I get to do that again? Like, when do I get to feel that again? And so I, yeah, and then from then on, it was just like, I would just beg my mom for more opportunities to sing. And if I wasn't singing for a crowd, I was in my room on my karaoke machine and sticking my speaker like out the window so that everybody could be annoyed by me.

That's awesome. So yeah, longest time I've been singing. When you were little, it wasn't necessarily worship songs you were singing. You were a big Mariah Carey fan I hear. So like what, yeah, what was your genre? Were you going to be a pop star? What were you thinking? Yeah, yes.

So I grew up on Whitney and Mariah and Aretha Franklin and Stevie Wonder. And I just, I loved all these big singers. and we had no idea what Christian music was. I just didn't grow up on it. I just, we didn't, I grew up in Boulder, Colorado, was born in Michigan, but we just were never exposed to Christian music. I grew up going to a Catholic church, and it was actually a charismatic Catholic church, which is so fun.

I bet. That's awesome. Because we'd be like singing like the mass parts, you know? Yeah. And then they would ask me to sing at communion. And I'm like, okay. So they're like, what, you know, I'm like, what song do you want? They're like, just whatever, you know, whatever song like feels like, you know, you're singing to God.

And so I would, I would sing like, like, Mariah Carey. That is awesome. Like hero, like, and not think it was weird at all. Nobody told me that was weird. So we just did it. And I don't, I, to this day, I think it's so funny. You're like, God's in this. Come on.

Yes. And I think it did show me like that like God shows up wherever he wants. Yeah. That's so good. You know, and even, I even know, like, I know this. Like, before I could talk or before I could really, like, put words to a song, even just singing ooh and ah and la la la, la, like, that was worship. Like, I know that I felt something that was bigger than just messing around.

Like, I was like, I'm connected. And not at the moment, but I look at her and I'm like, she was connecting with God for sure. She was worshipping because she was in another place. Like I would sit at the top of the stairs with like lots of, there's like lots of reverb and stuff. And I would just sing my heart out. And I was not, I was not just on my stairs. Like I was, I was worshipping.

And I'm so happy to like be able to like kind of look back and be like, that's when that started because I didn't have Christian music for a long time. That's so cool. I love it. It reminds me of like the woman who poured her oil out on Jesus' feet. and like wouldn't stop kissing his feet. And like she was just worshipping him. And like other people are judging her.

Like what is this woman doing? And Jesus is like, ever since I got here, she's been like, she hasn't stopped kissing my feet. She has poured her oral. Like he noticed that she was in the posture of worship, even though it looked different than what the other people and how they worship. So I love that.

You're like, yeah, she's singing Mariah Carey. And some people would be like, girl, what? And you're like, I'm worshiping the Lord. My heart's and then God. So I just pictured the Lord. I see her worshipping me. Like she sees me in this. She hears me in this.

And so I love that. It's so beautiful. And so you're singing Mariah Carey at a Catholic Cairs Mount Church. How did you start getting into the Christian music industry? How did that even happen? Or did you have like a God moment that led you to that? What did that look like? Well, it is kind of funny, actually.

It's all of the above. So we really grew up in this family and this church that really taught us to pray and really taught us to connect to who Jesus was. They taught us about Jesus. They, they, they, they, we, we were full of the Holy Spirit. It was, it was, it was, so, it was so awesome. This is great. I wish I could walk in the doors.

I just wanted to see this. It's the greatest little St. Louis in, in Louisville, Colorado. Very cool. It was so sweet. But, um, and so I, I did feel like my whole life, um, really, really connected to, to who Jesus was and who the Holy Spirit was. Um, but there was, and, and, I, I, I, So I would like sing around town anywhere, anywhere that would ask me to at coffee shops or,

you know, sporting events or just whatever I could sing at, I did. And so I kind of just became like little singer girl around town. And so whenever, you know, something would come up, they'd be like, oh, have that little, that little Filipino girl sing. And so I was asked to sing at this, it was like, it was a coffee shop in, in the mountains, which was just like 30, 45 minutes up the mountain for me. And they said it was like this late night coffee shop thing. So I was like, okay. And then what they said was it's a, it's a Christian music thing.

And so I was like, oh, Christian music thing. I was like, so I got the soundtrack for the preacher's wife, that Whitney Houston movie. And it was like, I think like this is all in a church. This is great. This is great. So I just sang the soundtrack to the preacher's wife. And I got that already. And what happened one week before that, we were at a youth conference for this, for the Catholic

Church that I was going to. And they, you know, asked every kid to like kind of go, go sit in, in your own space and go spend time with God and talk to him and pray. And so I went and I and did that. And it was definitely the first time that I ever realized. like God wanted to like move in me and like live and outwardly be um be in me and like that we were like teaming up like it was it was going to be a thing now yeah and um and so something something moved and like jumped in me um that that week at this youth conference and um i always kind of have been not anymore but like all through my life i was always really nervous when people had ask me, you know, what's your like salvation story or what's your like, what was the big moment?

And I was like, it wasn't a big moment. It was, it was, it wasn't like the thunder rolled and the lightning struck and I, you know, it wasn't that moment. And I was always insecure about that. And I feel like, man, especially now, like, um, being able to share that like, like, like you just said, like, like God looks and feels and sounds and moves differently in everyone. And that it's okay if you don't have that big earth shaking moment. Maybe it's just a little click, a little jump in you that's like, oh,

this is, this is a, this is a for real thing. This is, I, I knew you existed. I knew, I know you're good. I know you love, but oh, you're, you're in here now and we're doing, we're doing life together now and that's kind of what that moment was. And that was the week before I got a record

deal. So I got signed from, from that coffee shop, I was approached by record labels and that's where that whole process started and I ended up signing a record deal. Wow, that's so cool. I love that you said that because I think it's so important that people hear that. We're so used to even like seeing on social media these big things, these big transformations. But what I think is really cool is that God met you in this really simple way, but it made such a big impact. And so God can meet you in a simple way and it can have a profound impact on the rest of your life.

It doesn't matter if you're, you know, at this huge crazy moment or you've been living a wildlife and totally transform. It's like, no, if you just encounter the Lord, like the power is not in what you do. It's what he does. And that's the same power in everybody's story, no matter how simple, small, wild it seems. And so I actually like think that's so cool that you're confident to share that because I think that's what actually most people's does look like, you know, I mean, for me, my biggest kind of transformation moment was just at like a conference with, it was a high school conference. I was like 17 and or maybe I just turned 18. And I was just trying to figure it out. And everything the pastor was saying, I'm like,

that is speaking right to me. That is me. She is calling me out. And I like went and responded to the altar call and just met with the Lord. And truly from that moment on it changed the rest of my life. you know. So you just never know. It's like, that was it for me. I was like, whatever I do, I'm doing with you, God. And I love how you said. It's like, okay, we're doing this together. And then it changes everything about your life. When you're thinking about going back to school, one of the biggest questions is usually, how am I supposed to fit this into the life that I already have? Between work, family, and everything else on your plate, you need an education that works with your schedule and not against it.

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You don't have set login times. It's just a Monday to Monday thing. Get it done whenever you can. And so if you were thinking about it, this is the best way to do it. But if you'd rather experience Liberty in person, college for a weekend lets you test drive college by exploring campus, attending classes, and meeting other students. The final dates for fall 2026 are November 5th through the 7th. So don't wait. Register today to check it out.

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So what did that look like? How did that change your life? Did you stay in Colorado? Did you move? And where did the trajectory go from there? It was a little crazy. I was in the summer of my eighth grade year. And I guess you understand some of this too. Because you were young. I was actually an eighth grade whenever our family show started. And so like totally life changers. So that's wild. Every time someone's life changes in eighth grade, I'm like, how was that for you? How much therapy have you been in? Yeah, yeah. Summer of eighth grade, you know, just about to go into high school. And, um, I people knew I sang but people didn't really you know they didn't really understand that but what happened during the summer that's when it all happened so it was while we were kind of out of school and and while that happened this this article came out in the newspaper like our local newspaper and it was like Rachel Ampa signs million dollar deal you know or something like really dramatic. And it ended up really setting off this, this tough, like, next few, like, next season for me.

Because what ended up happening is, like, the first day of school, like, there was graffiti all over our school. It was a brand new school. And so people were already kind of, like, oh, there's the new school, the brand new shiny school. And so it was like, this article comes out about my big deal. and so they graffiti like we hate you Rachel Lampa and and uh you know bleep bleep bleep rich people and things like that and so there was just this really strange like oh i'm so excited i signed a record deal to like oh my gosh everybody hates me and you know like just like this really um confusing time um where i just wanted to be invisible but my job all the sudden

and became very visible and not even job. Like, I didn't even, it's not like I even thought I had a job. Like, I just was like, oh, I get to sing a lot more and get to, you know, travel and do fun things. So it did like kind of set off an interesting trajectory. And I definitely, I definitely had, you know, struggles in that time that I am just now, like, opening my eyes to. and, you know, trying to, you know, sift through too.

Wow. So it was a little wild. There's a little wild. I, you know, I ended up going, you know, showing up for my first day school and everything was fine. And, um, and I, I would travel, uh, often to Nashville, um, from Colorado and just kind of did that for the first, I think two, yeah, well, yeah, first two years of high school and then slowly kind of, uh, kind of worked my way into like a, uh,

the online, you know, classes. And it was still, you know, when that was like kind of not super easy to do online, it's still still pretty far back in the day. But we figured it out. And so I kind of did a little bit of both. Wow. I actually can relate to that so much. It's actually very, very similar to my story.

And what you said is like, that's a really good way to put it. It was like all I wanted to be was invisible, but my life now, required me to be very visible. And I feel like I could so relate to that sentence, really a lot of different seasons in my life, but particularly in high school because it was like this thing happened that was like so exciting initially. It was like, oh, we get to do this thing as a family and all stuff. And then I go to school and it's like same same thing, different way of doing it, but very similar. And just feeling like, oh, well, I don't even want that to happen if that if I'm going to lose all my friends and if nobody likes me and if it's like there's no joy in it and all the

things and so just tried to like you know had to figure out who I was in that stage and then did the same thing started off the first two years like going to high school and then kind of teetered off to doing like an online-ish thing but that was also before our school had that oh my gosh and so literally when you're talking it was like well we had like very very similar high school experiences and I was traveling back and forth that's so crazy I feel like if we would we're not on a podcast. We could sit there for a long time on that. That's crazy. Yeah, so wild. Okay, so after you kind of got going, I mean, it seems like yeah, like a lot of success pretty fast. And then you decided to like stop everything. That's a really hard thing to do.

Yeah. What did that look like? You know, it's funny because I ended up, you know, really, really loving, like being on the road. I made some really amazing friends. I got to tour with one of my best friends, Stacey O'Riko. We would just like, we would just, we had the same agent. And, you know, all the labels would be like, well, you guys are kind, you know, you're kind of competitors. And we're like, oh, no, no, no, no, that's not. No, we're best friends and we want to do everything together. So it ended up being this really beautiful path that God did want me on. Like, you know, people will be like, you know, do you wish that that never happened?

And I'm like, gosh, no, no, no. But, but it was a different looking path. And throughout those years, you know, record deal or not, you are searching for who you are, you know, and it's just this constant like, what do I have to say? What am I, it's actually what do I have to say versus like what do they want me to say, you know? And I had a lot of that going on. Like I started to really realize like, oh, I could, I know exactly what I could be and what. what they would look right and and what would sell, you know, like I got into this place of just like, I know I could close my eyes and just go through the motions and just be, um, you know, a puppet or, um, and and I said and in or I could really listen to the voice of God and figure out where he wants me and what he wants me to say. And I could not for the life of me like, access God's voice. I just couldn't find it. There were there were so many voices speaking into my life

and even my own voice felt distorted. Like I just couldn't get there and I couldn't, um, I couldn't find peace. Like I just was so itchy and wrestling and just like I'm not in my, my body. I'm not with, I'm not with God right now. I'm not walking with him. I'm just walking with everyone. else. And so when I was 21, you know, when all my friends were like graduating college and like going off to their lives, I, I walked into my record label with my big brother and just said, hey, I am really disconnected and I'm really struggling. And I, I weren't out of my record deal. And that in the legal world is not a very easy thing to do. But it was a really beautiful moment.

They said, we believe you and we believe that you need to do what you need to do. And so I had, I had to leave. And so I left this record deal and seemingly left music, you know, for the foreseeable future. But it was the first time that I, or at any time that I would think about leaving, leaving that the industry, I would get so much peace. I would, I just felt so peaceful. So I just kept kind of like, like testing, like leaning towards leaving. And I was like, peace, peace, peace.

And then, you know, I'd be like, oh, but accept. And then it would be like wrestle, wrestle, wrestle. So it was like, I just had to like, like with my eyes closed in the dark, just be like, where's that peace feeling? Where's that warmth? You know, and just kind of followed that out. It's actually a really good visual for what most decisions feel like. like that are hard. It's like, I don't necessarily, because I think we get this question all the time

on this podcast. We have a voicemail line that people call in and ask questions to. And one of the most common things is like, how do I know if God's in it or not? Like, how do I know if I'm supposed to do this? And it's like, I haven't really heard from the Lord yet or like what that looks like to even hear from the Lord. How do you hear the voice of the Lord? And a lot of times it is peace. A lot of times it is, okay, when I think about this, it's not like I heard the Lord say, walk in there and quit. Like, it's not that. It's actually just, okay, I am in turmoil here. This is not working.

This is like, clearly the fruit of who the Lord is, is not in this right now. Yes. Okay, so what does this look like to follow the peace? What does it look like to follow the Lord? Like his word is a lamp to my feet, a light to a bath. Where is he leading me in that? And then as you think about that, is like, okay, I really do feel peace in that. I can see that being like the right direction.

And I think it's a good thing to establish. So sometimes things are hard and you still have peace in it. It's different whenever things are hard and it's like, and I'm insecure and I don't know who I am and this is not good for my soul. This is like, okay, then that might not be where you're supposed to be. How can I get out of that and walk towards something that would make me in a better state? And I think like that's so cool that you said like just kind of in the dark. Like it wasn't like so, so clear, but it was just that's where the pieces you lean towards it

and made that decision. And I think a lot of people probably needed to hear that because it's not like that was easy. That was very hard. It's not like you knew, oh, and here's my next step or here's where it's going to lead or here's what that means for music for me in the future. It's like I actually don't know any of that, but I know that there's peace in this next step, which is really cool to like have the courage to do that. And what a good big brother to go with you.

It's like, I know. I'm doing this, but I need you to. go with me. That's so real. He was my tour manager too at the time. And we had managers and lawyers and we had the whole team and stuff. But I was like, I think I just want to go in there with my big brother. And he is awesome. He is the best. He's like Nashville's big brother now. So that's so great. He's the right guy for it. It's so cool. So I probably am jumping ahead a little bit in the story. But what I think is really cool, your story almost like I was thinking about that phrase that people say like, you need to go touch grass.

You know, it's like, you need to, like, get out of this and go touch grass. And I feel like that that's something that I think about that a lot. Sometimes I'm like, I need to go touch grass. Like, I need to go literally outside and touch grass. Or I just need to, like, go sit in church and just, like, listen and receive and go talk to people. I need to go just like touch grass, ground, humble yourself. And your story kind of reminds me of that.

It's almost like you went in, like, touch grass, like prison ministry. I know you'll have a nonprofit. where you just love people, like where they're at, like talk to me a little bit about going into the prisons and how that began to like reshape, I guess, your life in some ways. There's something about settling in after a busy summer and finally getting back into your normal routines that just feels so good. And honestly, sleeping in my own bed on my Helix mattress is a huge part of that for me. Kristen and I have the Helix Midnight Elite and we were matched with it after taking their super simple two-minute sleep quiz. We are both side sleepers and we

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He started this nonprofit and it's called People Loving Nashville. And so right in this time where I was kind of walking away from music, my brother ended up getting hired and stolen by Toby Mac. And Toby was like, I'll take you. And so he ended up going like on the road hardcore with Toby. every weekend he'd come home like either Monday morning at like six in the morning off the bus and or you know Sunday night and then he'd be like what are we doing with this week like we're just you know you sit around and you when you're in kind of a touring world you you you leave like Thursday or Friday you know so you're just home during the weekend he's like I just didn't know

what to do with this week and so he had met um someone um that was sort of staying on like a porch near his house and he was kind it was like an abandoned porch and so he he he struck up a friendship with him and found out that the need um alongside with with uh practical needs of like food and drink and clothing um is is community community and friendship and um so he ended up just becoming really good friends with this guy and um and then one one night uh uh i think it was like right around Thanksgiving, made too much food, packed it up, brought it downtown, and just sat and shared his food. And, um, and, you know, sat with like just a couple others. And then they said, hey, we should do this next week. You bring friends. I'll bring friends. And then it just kind of kept

growing and growing and growing. And it's 18 years later. And we've never missed a Monday night. So every Monday night, um, around like four to 500 meals are, are made and given out and then food and drink and clothing and resources and mainly community and friendship and consistency happens every Monday. And so, yeah, I skipped out a little bit, but that's kind of like, that was kind of where that started. Within that time, I was like, oh, I'm all in on this. This is something that like our mom and our dad had instilled in us very young. We would do that when we were when we were young. We would pack up our leftovers and bring it downtown Boulder.

And then my dad is Filipino and he is just this, he's just this amazing cook and it is just all about cooking too much food, too much food. Like, there's never, there's never too much food because it's going somewhere, you know. And so this has just been in us for a long time and it just felt like the natural thing to do is just to go be with our true neighbors who are in a tough spot. go really walk with people. And one of those ways that I really connected with was through a prison ministry that my sister-in-law and actually Toby's wife, Amanda McKin, had really a heart for too.

And they wrote this curriculum and called ourselves the wild ones. And we would go into the women's prison and we would just talk about the wild ones of the Bible. And Jesus being the wildest one, Jesus being the one that. pushed that pushed buttons and ruffled people's feathers and the and you know like really kind of kind of shook it up you know and um and rehab and just you know all these all these people and women that in the Bible that just um that you know maybe the wild ones can see themselves in and maybe maybe consider um a god that is truly loving and truly truly inviting us to come as we are and and not the god that a lot of a lot of these women

grew up knowing who was like oh you screwed up like you're out you know like you're you're too far gone there's no chance that you will you will get to be loved by god anymore and so that was that was a god that a lot of the women were walking in with and so we were just like just determined to show them and really show ourselves ultimately and sit in the circle and just say, all right, who is this God? How in the world is he this good? And then just kind of remind ourselves every day, like, and just be, just be in his presence and be with each other and walk through healing together.

And man, it just, it, it healed all of us. It changed all of us. And it was just such a, such a beautiful part of my story. It's beautiful. It's so cool. Like going back to the best piece of advice you've been given from your mom, like God doesn't waste your pain. And look at like what your pain led you to was this, you know,

moment with people loving Nashville and with the prison ministry and all these things that were kind of happening. And it's really cool because it makes me think of, you know, of course, like in Genesis with Joseph's story. And he's like, no, like what you. you intended for to harm me like God intended for my good. And it's so cool because, you know, obviously Joseph's story is like so dramatic and like so many bad things. But it actually is a little bit similar whenever you look at your story and just, you know, all of our lives, because again,

like this is the same God we're talking about. I love that song about the same God that we sing because it's so true that you can see the same characteristics. But it's like, God put this dream in your heart to sing. And then you get this awesome record deal. All of a sudden people are like graffitting crazy things on the wall. and like dragging you down, like throwing you in the pit. And then it's like, one thing leads to another. And then it's like, okay, this is not it. I'm in Nashville.

But I don't want to do this. Where's the purpose in this? Quit everything. Hello. Here's like new purpose. Now I'm like with people. I'm loving. Like I'm the hands and feet of Jesus here.

And the Lord says, like, whatever you do for the least of these, you do for me. And so you're sitting there and like loving people in Nashville where they're at, going into these prisons, like start in a family, I think around this time, getting married, like, just being. And I think that it's just being. And I think that is so cool, and this is just so good to note, that like the pathway to success when it comes to the kingdom of God looks so different than the pathway to success that the world will give you. Because the world was a move to Nashville and go get to know every who's who. Go get to know. And then also.

And you're like, I'm actually going to go and like get to know the least of these. I'm going to go know my neighbor and love them well. I'm going to go start my family and go meet some people in prison. And while you're in there, the Lord starts putting these songs on your heart again. And I think it was about the time in COVID whenever you weren't able to go to the prisons anymore. That isn't that when you wrote like, it is? Perfect. Okay, tell a little bit about that.

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And that's what it helped us so much with and Duck Commander as well. With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business. So go make it one. Start your free trial at Shopify.com slash wo. start your free trial at shopify.com slash woe again that's shopify.com slash woe yes yes so the other thing that you know all those years of like burnout um kind of kind of got stuck in me was was some cynicism um and just being like ah this is all like what what could i have to say that would be anything different than what everybody else is already saying and singing and doing so much better than me

and I just was so, I just had believed a lot of lies about myself. And by sitting in those circles with women, we would sit with them through like AA classes or ACA classes, which is adult children of alcoholics, or we were making bouquets of flowers or we were doing a songwriting class. Like we would do all these kind of different things and then we would do Bible studies also in between. but in that I started to believe like who God is again

and who God says I am again because I'm I'm you know sitting there and looking at these women I'm just like oh you are so loved and I'm so excited for you as you're discovering this about what God thinks of you and then I'm like I'm the same like I am

it's like us with our kids what we're talking about it's like wait I actually really needed to hear that. I forgot that. Yeah. Yes. We are all in need of these reminders all the time through each other, you know. And so as I'm like getting rewashed by love, I am also, we are also nearing March of 2020. And so these programs that we do, like we talk about the wild ones and they'd be like these nine week programs and at the end of nine weeks we would kind of do like a little graduation and we just kind of do like a ceremony for the women for like going through this program and right before our graduation that we get cut cut off and we aren't allowed to

go back in the prison because of COVID and so I wrestled with that I was going to my small group all the time being like oh I just like I just want to like go be with them I just want to hold them I just want to like, you know, reconnect and, and two of my, when you're in a small group in Nashville, you're probably going to have some songwriters in your small group. Yeah. And I had a few. And so Andrew Rip and Ethan Hulse were, are in my small group. And they were like, well, why don't we just write a song about it?

Why don't we just do this song? And I was like, I was like, I just don't know if I'm ready for what that means to just write a song and put it out and does that mean I have to do the whole thing again? Does that mean my my all this healing all this therapy all this you know is going to just go you know I go to waste like am I just going to fall back in? And so I had to really work through that but I just so I was just like I'm only sending this song straight into the prison and I'm and then that's it. And then I'm going to keep momming. I think I was just like a little tiny bit pregnant with Leo my second and I'd already at had my older boy and so I was like, I'm just going to keep mom in and I'm going to send that song.

And then Toby, Amanda's, Amanda's husband, Toby Mac, I was walking through Target. Great. As we do. As we do. And I was like, I think I want Toby to be on this song because he knows these women. He knows their stories. And so I called Toby and asked if he would do it. And he was like, duh, I would totally do it. And so he jumped on the song. And then all my friends were like, I think maybe more people want to hear your song. Yeah, they did.

So I really just opened my hands and I just stood in this posture of like whatever you want to do God. I didn't sign a record deal. I didn't get a manager. I didn't do any of the stuff that you're supposed to do when you put out music. And we just put it out and people did need to hear it. And God really spoke and breathed through it and breathed through. through it to me and just walked me through that and just kept me in this position of just

like open hands nothing forced nothing out of striving um just truly out of like celebrating the gift of music and the gift of how god works and moves through it and the ways that he has like deliver the ways that that song was like a delivery system of his of a really true true love um it has just that's the thing that keeps me keeps me going it's so cool. It's so cool. I love that. I remember even for us in a similar way, we got asked, you know, or approached again about doing a reality TV show again. We were going to do Duck Down to see the Revival. And of course, you know, for people who are listening now, it's like, it happened. So obviously we did it. But when it first, when it was first brought up, I was the most

hesitant to do it because same. I was like, oh, I've gotten through like so much healing. And I'm like so, just at such a different place. And to me, like, going back there, I was like, well, what does that mean I go back to that same, you know, insecurities that I felt or the hard things that I've felt and the things that I've worked so hard to overcome, all the different things. And I remember just like processing this with a great counselor of mine who lives in Nashville. She is a lot with me since I was like 20 years old. She's so amazing. And she was like, just because things look the same, they're not the same because you're not the same. She's like, you are going into this a different person. And she's like, okay, let's, she's like, you just listed everything that's the same.

Now list everything that's different. And it was like everything. I'm like, okay, well, like, I know who I am. I'm married to an amazing person. I have an amazing kid. You know, it's like, okay, whoa, I'm not the same because the Lord has changed me. And that's so true because sometimes life does give you those second opportunities that mirror something that happened in your past. But it's like, no, I'm, I get to, this is redemption route. Like, I get to go in new. I get to. I get to. to go without the striving, without that pressure, without that insecurity. And now I get to go in and like, how can I be a blessing for others? Like, this is not about me. This is about your kingdom or so much bigger. And so, man, it's so fun to get to do that. It's so cool to see you thriving

in that. And the songs you put out, yes, people wanted to hear it. Go check out those streams. People are like, yay, truth. Because it's reminding people of who they are. And you're speaking truth, the kind of truth we all need to hear. One of the things, as I was listening to your songs, there's just an undeniable thread of you believe in people. Like, you believe in people at their lowest, at their hardest, at their worst, and you speak to who they are at their best. You speak to who they were created to be.

And you can hear that through a lot of your songs, which is cool because I think you talk about identity a lot. But of course, one of my personal favorites is superpower. I love when you sing about your son. you know, just think about my kids, like, I love to sing truth over them, to speak truth over them, to remind them of who they are. And that song is such a truth bomb over your son. Can you tell me a little bit about your son and the story behind it? Yes, totally. I'm so glad that you love that song too, because I, we all, like, we all see,

we all just want, like, our, every, the world to see, like, how amazing our kids are and stuff. and like how, but just it's, it is always like the stuff that you only get to see in the living room, you know, and you're like, ah, it's just such so, so powerful. But, um, so Leo, um, so I have a nine year old now, his name's Jackson and, um, he is just like, the best. I'm so obsessed with him. He's just like, he's so cool, you know, like, we're getting to that zone where he's like nine and he's like my friend is, you know, and I'm like, okay, no, I'm your mom. But, like, I'm like, you're cool, though. I like you. I love that so much.

That's awesome. But so when, yeah, when Jacks was six, I found out I was having Leo. And I, you know, all the, all the normal, like, excitement came along. And then we, I was actually at a rehearsal with Lauren Dagle. Oh, no way. I was filling in for one of her background singers who got COVID. Wow. Man, COVID is just.

just trying to get in. And so I jumped in. But you know what? COVID has also made some ways for us to be together. So it did. It did. It did. So I'm in this rehearsal.

It's like 8 o'clock at night. My doctor calls and I'm like, ooh, I bet I'm going to get like the gender, you know, or something like that. So I walk out and I answer the phone. And I was like, hey, actually, before you say anything, I want to be with my husband when you tell me the gender. So I'm just like, you know, like, don't say it. And so she was like, okay, I won't tell you that part, but I do need to tell you something else. And basically, the words that were used were, um, you are at a 99% risk of having a baby with Down syndrome.

And, um, and I mean, it was like, it was like heat. It was like, I got hot. I'm sure everybody's been in that place where you're just like a phone call or whatever it is. You're just like, oh my gosh, like, what is this like thing taking over me? And, um, and at the same moment, I felt like a full, like a bubble of, of something around me. And I think ultimately what that was was peace. It was a bubble of peace around me. I felt like I would just got like, you know, like caught in this thing. And it was like the most, it was, confusing because I was so scared and so like full of questions and worries and fears but I also was just like it was that same like warmth that you know when you're leaning like trying to find the peace

you're just like that that that warmth and it sometimes it's scary you know like yeah yeah but it is peace and so I just was like okay I think this is going to be a new normal for me to like have to to to be in this in this bubble like this is this is this is my, my bubble, my new bubble. And so, um, you know, had weeks and weeks of, uh, you know, just like, what are we doing? How are we going to do this? What's going to happen? Um, and, um, but also, also kind of just while also being like, knowing, like, we're going to be fine. I remember calling my mom and telling her and she goes, um, because I was crying, you know, it's like, and she just goes and, um, what's the problem?

Wow. I love that. Oh, yeah. I love that. Wow. And actually, I am named after a girl that my mom worked with when she was younger who had Down syndrome. No way. And I've known that my whole life.

I knew that. My mom told me that when I was younger. Wow. That's crazy. I mean, it was just great. That's beautiful. Well, the song is so good. And the artwork is incredible.

I love. It's Leo. Yeah. I love it. He is his little superstar. It's so awesome. but it's beautifully written. Oh, thank you.

Yeah, sorry. I didn't even like get to the part where I wrote the song. That's okay. That's what I want to hear. This is what podcast are for. We want the whole story. I mean, and that's so helpful to hear because so many people,

whatever it is in their life, whatever, you know, bad news they get, I don't want to say bad news, but hard news that just makes you go, whoa, what does this look like for my life? It's like, what do you do with that? And again, I love how you said, it is scary.

It's not that it's not scary. And that's what, you know, when you read the Bible, Bible and the Lord says, do not be afraid to all these people he's coming to. It's because they are afraid because whatever he just told them is scary. Whatever news they just got, whatever thing they're about to walk into, it feels bigger than them. It feels unknown. It feels out of their control. Yet there's this peace knowing, God, you're in this. And God, you don't make mistakes. You write good stories. You're a good father. You're the father of this child. You're the father of me and what I'm about

to walk into and I can so relate to that. I mean, we've gone through, oh, go ahead. Yeah, no, no, no, go, go, go. I was just saying we've just made me think of something. I'm holding it's like, oh, man, like it's so scary, but yet I do feel that piece that surpasses all understanding. And then there's sometimes where you're like, okay, I don't feel that necessarily. I might actually feel scared, but thank God that my trust is not in my feelings. Thank you, God, I know that you are good. And, like, you know, you hold that future. And so it's just like a really good reminder to people that like, it's okay to like feel scared, but also acknowledge that he has you. And in that knowledge and in that truth, that's where that bubble of peace forms, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It's so okay. Like I, I married a therapist.

So, ooh, thank God. Thank God. Praise the Lord. Hallelujah. I know. But one of the big things is to feel the feel it all. And to feel it all within the safety of knowing that God is God. Like, God is the biggest thing. He's, he's, he's driving the car. Like, you know, but like fear and worry and all that, like, it's, it's going to pass through. And it's going, and it's okay to feel that. And I think that's, I think maybe that's why that, that bubble thing was so important because it's, it's, it's, he's holding it. It's not, it's not like, you know, this, it's not that these things are bad. It's like, feel it, feel it. You are safe. You are safe. Feel it. And so I felt. that all the way through. And, um, and, oh, what you made me think of is that he, um, he, he,

he wired our brains. God wired us. Like, he knew that we would feel fear. He knew that we would feel worry and that we would feel sadness. And, and he, and I think he wired us so that he could like, rewire our brains and that he could re, um, reheal our, our dreams, you know, and re-heal. And, re-heal our imagination and our hope. And that's actually something that we, this is so, so many full circles are happening right now. I love it. I love it. My ADHD is not keeping up. No, same. Same. We have two ADHD people in the house who are stoked on life. We can, we can talk all day long. But that's also something that we teach in the wild ones is that sometimes our, we, we are suffering for so long, we're in pain for so long that we forget how to dream and we forget how to hope. And so

he rewires. He rewires our dreams and our hopes. Great. And that's what he did through Leo because it was so scary. And we have all these preconceived notions about what life is going to be. We don't realize that actually, like, Leo, Leo was born with Down syndrome. He flung all the windows open. He opened the curtains. He let the air in. He's like, not only, like, am I not all those limitations and all those, you know, set backs and all the things. But not only that, but like also I'm just about to like show you even more. Like like God has healed my imagination through him and healed, you know, so much and just, you know, retought so much and rewired so much about all of us in our family and in our in our community.

We're just like, oh, that is important. Wow. That is so good. Yeah. That's like where superpowers came from because we were just like, okay, we put Leo in the middle of our circle. Me and Ethan and Andrew also wrote that one. And we just sat him in the middle. We're like, okay, what are all the things we love about him? And what are all the things that, all the things that people would say are the setbacks and the flaws and the, you know, the, the limitations. But to us, that's, those are, those are superpowers. But to us, they have made space and room for him to, to shine in ways that we don't have, like, access to sometimes. And

just in culture and all that like his connection he he he slows down time is what I always say like he that's his like that's his like real superpower is like I'm in a hurry we're getting to the next thing where's the you know where's where's the diaper bag where's all this stuff and he's

and he's he's standing there and he just goes oh and he's like we got a hug first we're hugging and I'm like in my head I'm like there's no time for a hug and then and then but I'm like no way I'm ever passing up a hug from Leo and you go in for the hug and then and then there's time all of a sudden

there's time again and there's connection and we've all connected to each other and ourselves into God and then we go on with the day and it's so good it's so good I love that you said that about the dreaming and the hoping and that he unlocked your imagination I'm actually reading a book right now on hope and this morning I was listening to it and it was just so powerful and it was listing all these people in history that we know that have done like epic things but who actually actually had like really, really horrible, like hard things happen to them. And it's like the reason they're known is because they had hope. Like the reason that they're actually known for their story is because they took what

happened and they said, you know what? Like I have enough hope to make something different with it. And it was just like so powerful listening to that. And I love that's kind of what you're like, nope, there's hopes and dreams and imagination and a newness in it. And now it's like better than we could ever imagine it. And it's flung the curtains open. it's given life and in breath.

And like, that's the story of all these people who had hope. And I think that's so cool. So whatever your story is, it's like hope is essential to the story for it to become good. Yes. Yeah, it's like a muscle. Hope is like an active thing. It's so true. And I mean, the Bible is very clear.

It's like, you know, faith, hope and love. Like those are three things listed. And I think that I'm like on a big hope kick right now. But I do think we talk about love a lot. I think we talk about faith a lot. but like hope just seems like this like cute little thing like you know we just like dainty write it doodle it no hope is like core like it is necessary it'll make you do crazy things and it's scary because it's hard to hope it's scary to hope sometimes but like it's so poor and it makes

the biggest difference it's so powerful um i have to say i can't believe we talked for an hour i really could talk to you forever i know it flies it flies like it's so powerful but one i just have to say One of my favorite things that I have learned about you as I have studied you to get to interview was that, you know, in a world of Instagram where you get to pin three things, that your number one pin was is you dressing up with a wig to go get your kids at school. And that told me everything I needed to know. I was like, yeah, she might be my best friend if we were neighbors. I love it.

It is really fun. And I love that your kids are still young, so you have so much to do. There's so much potential for pickups. It's really fun. You inspired me greatly. I was like, you know, this girl could pin three things. And I'm one of those three. I've never even thought about it that way, but you're so right.

It is the joy of my life to just like be so silly. It's great. With my kids, especially. It's so fun. Bring the fun. Isn't it great? When you can talk about hard things in life being real and then laugh and be like, but I still have joy.

And it is a strength in my life. and fun is a priority of my life. I love it. Well, you're a huge inspiration for a million reasons. Thank you for coming on this podcast. You've given so much wisdom. It started out with two drops and then it just like multiplied. So thank you for all that you've done, all that you are.

We appreciate it so much. Right back at you. You're beautiful and I love what you're doing. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks, friend.