WHOA That's Good Podcast - God, Guilt, and Growing Up Duggar | Sadie Robertson Huff & Jinger Duggar Vuolo

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

Jinger Duggar Vuolo and Sadie actually have a lot in common — from growing up on hit reality TV shows to now being married, raising kids, and running their own podcasts. Jinger opens up about how her view of God totally shifted from when she was younger and taught that stepping outside this super strict set of rules meant God would smite her — literally. She tells Sadie she used to live in constant fear, thinking God was out to get her for stuff she didn’t even realize was “wrong.” Basically, she was living in straight-up superstition. But once she discovered who God really is — just, not judgmental — her whole faith journey took a turn. Oh, and the wildest part? They get into what it’s actually like being a young girl getting marriage proposals (yep, actual proposals) from guys and even moms (on behalf of their sons) from all over the world. No pressure, right? This Episode of WHOA That's Good is Sponsored By: https://drinkag1.com/whoa — Try the new AG1 flavors and get a FREE Welcome Kit with your first order. https://liberty.edu/Sadie — Get your application fee WAIVED when you start your future with Liberty University today! https://covenanteyes.com/sadie — Visit the website to learn more and start your journey toward a healthier, stronger marriage today. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Y'all, I know I cannot be the only one who feels like when fall hits, suddenly everything feels a little chaotic. And that's why I'm obsessed with Hungry Root. It fills my grocery cart for me, gives me an incredible meal ideas. And honestly, it's like Hungaroo just knows what I like now. I told them what my kids like and what kind of snacks we like and y'all, they just nail it. And their groceries are the kind you feel good about feeding your family. They're hormone-free meats, organic produce, even kids snacks and treats without all the junk ingredients. So whether your plant-based, gluten-free, focus on gut health or just trying to eat cleaner, hunger root fits into your lifestyle. It saved me from the last-minute takeout nights,

questionable leftovers, and waiting for dinner meltdowns after a busy day. College students, moms of littles, newly married, whoever you are, this is the kind of tool that helps make your life easier and healthier. First time we did hunger root, we were sold. I mean, we didn't pick what we wanted, we just let it pick for us, and we were like so impressed. But all the great things that they had for us that we went to pick for ourselves, and then when we did start picking the things that we wanted, man, they just have everything on there. And even things that our local grocery stores do not carry, that was super fun to be able to get at our doorstep. Take advantage of this exclusive offer.

For a limited time, get 40% off your first box, plus get a free item in your box for life. Go to hungaruret.com slash woe and use the code woe. That's hungarroot.com slash woe with the code woe to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. Hungerroot.com slash woe with the code woe. what's up everybody happy whoa that's good Wednesday I hope you're having a great week but friends it's about to get so much better this is a podcast that I've had on my calendar for a little while and I have been so excited about it I haven't even got to tell our special guest this yet but I actually listen to your podcast a lot and so I am so excited to have ginger dougar and I don't want

about how you actually pronounce your last name. It's okay. Volo. A lot of people say it differently. It's Volo if you're a proper Italian, but we don't say it properly. So we say Volo. Wait, that's so cool. Both are cool. Volo's like Yolo, but then Volo is like a little flare to it. Well, I love it. I really do listen to your podcast. Your podcast comes up on like my recommended YouTube all the time. And I'll listen to little clips here and there. And then sometimes dive into the whole conversation. And girl, you're just, you're just, you. You are so well-spoken. It's so beautiful the way you live your life and share your family and your faith.

And I'm just super grateful for an influence like you. So thank you for coming on this podcast. I really appreciate it. Well, thank you so much, Sadie. I've been encouraged by all that you do. And so thank you for continuing to fight the good fight in the public eye. I know that's not always easy. Yes.

I'm sure we'll talk about that. But before we kind of dive into the full podcast, and I hope my team prepped you with this question because it's the question. because it's the question I ask everybody who comes on the podcast. If they didn't, then we can sit here for a minute and think about it. But Ginger, what is the best piece of advice you've ever been given? Oh, okay. I'm going to actually go to marriage advice that we were given because this has been the best thing for us.

Right before we were married, one of Jair's friends said to us, they said, before you go to bed each night, ask each other if there's something on your heart or something that you want to talk about. And so for anybody who's not married, go ahead and tuck that away for later because it has been so helpful. There are so many times where you're just sitting there, you're tired. It's been a long day, wrangling the kids, and we just slow down and say, is there anything on your heart? And it really opens up a deeper question, not just like, how is your day? Oh, it's good.

And then that could stop there. But is there anything on your heart or anything that you want to talk about? And so that's been something that has been super helpful for us in everyday life. life. It's great. I love that so much. And it's so funny. Because Christian and I had this conversation, this is like a couple of months ago. And I don't even remember what sparked it. I think it was one of those days where I wanted him to ask me like, are you okay? But instead of just saying what was on my mind, I was like waiting for him to ask, you know, which is so ridiculous. I should have just shared with him. And then finally, you know, you get frustrated because I have you not noticed that I am like upset or

whatever. And so anyways, we had this whole conversation and I said, I think it would be really good if like every now and then you just ask me like, how's your heart? Like just like a check in on like how my heart is. And it was so cute the first time he did it because it's like such an unnatural like just how is your heart is an unnatural thing for him to say. He's like, hey, babe, he's like, how is your heart? It like made me laugh. But we ended up having like the best conversation. And it was And I wasn't even expecting it that day. That was a great day. But it actually led us into, like, having that deeper conversation to your point, it's different than just, like, how's your day?

It's like, if there's anything on your heart, it really kind of leads you to more intentional thoughts and, like, what you're actually going to share and how you're really doing. Because it's not just like, oh, yeah, this happened, this happened, this happened. It's like, this is how I feel. And so that is great advice. I'm going to start implementing that more in the day-to-day and not just the every now and then heart check-ins. I love that. I love it. I can't wait to get into a little bit about your marriage and how y'all met and everything.

But first, let's throw it back a little bit because you and I had really interesting childhoods. And both of us were on a reality TV show when we were really young. And so can you tell me a little bit about what your childhood looked like and growing up in the spotlight? Yeah, it's interesting. I thought the same thing coming on this podcast. I was like, I bet that we could actually relate to. a ton of the challenges and joys of being raised on reality TV. And so, yes, my family had a reality TV show from the age of when I was nine, it started, all the way up until I was 27.

So just like four years ago, the show ended. And all of those years, we just filmed anywhere from three to six days a week. And it was a long run of a show, but basically just following our lives and us getting married and then starting our own families. And so it was an interesting journey, definitely not without challenge and struggle and a lot of trials that we faced in the public eye. But yeah, it was not anything that my parents ever expected to happen either. And so it's kind of fascinating how the Lord opened that door for our family. Well, it's crazy because like when you have a reality show, you never really know what's going to hit. And I think that you kind of have this expectation when you start it's like oh yeah like we'll do this it'll be you know you think like

one two seasons and it'll be fun or whatnot and then it's you know for both of our families you didn't really realize what it was going to become and like you said like there's so many joys in that and obviously we're back on TV so there are so many joys like we want to but then there's also like so many um there's a lot of complex use to that too and y'all's life was super unique because I know you grew up very sheltered and kind of under specific, uh, viewpoints and stuff. And so you guys didn't even have TV, right, whenever it started. So you all weren't really seeing it. Yeah, we didn't. And it was interesting. We didn't really even have many TV shows that we would watch ever. And so whenever the idea was kind of thrown around just saying, okay, like we should start a reality show.

There was somebody who had reached out to us. And first they wanted to do just a couple documentaries. And my parents, I remember they set us down and they talked to us kids about it. And we prayed about it as a family and moved forward with those. And since they did so well, when the network came back asking for a reality show, we were like, what's a reality show? And we had never seen one before. And it was kind of interesting. We didn't see one until much further down the road. And so we didn't have cable TV in our house.

We were very sheltered. We were raised in a setting where my parents taught us the true gospel, so I was very thankful for that. From an early age, I knew that salvation was not by works. I needed to trust in Jesus for salvation, but beyond that, there were many things that we leaned heavily into. And so a lot of extra biblical rules, things that were not based in the Bible, we followed a teacher who basically, he claimed to speak for God, but didn't. And so he would give you a list of principles to follow and said, if you do this, God is going to be pleased with you. But if you don't follow these principles, then your life is going to be one disaster after another. And so I would say that it was kind of interesting being in that public spotlight because there was a fascination with just the share size of my family because there were so many kids. I was raised in a family of 19 kids.

And so that was just chaotic at times. And we had so much fun together. And so the show kind of just followed our lives, but also promoted the teachings of Bill Gothard, who was that teacher, that we followed for so many years. Wow. I think it's so cool. Like, this is going deep fast, really eight minutes in.

And I want to ask you this, but I want to ask you this because I just think the way that you handle this is so beautiful that you're very clear that that's not the teaching that you believe is true anymore and that you've like changed your stance and I don't want you to speak on that instead of me telling your story but how you're you didn't like throw away your faith with that I think so many people especially in today like there's so much deconstruction going on and based off how people are raised like they feel really bitter towards church and they feel really bitter towards a teacher or really bitter towards that and that's also made them feel

bitter towards God and they've like turned their life completely around and what's so refreshing about your story is you're very clear on like my parents taught me the gospel and then there was also this and like we had a great childhood but there was also this and just the way that you're able to dissect the two and like take from the good and weed out the bad is really beautiful can you kind of talk a little bit about that process and your own heart and mind over the past years as you've stepped out of that Hey, hey, this is Christian. Sadie's better half, if you are wondering who I am. I'm hopping on for Sadie while she's on maternity leave.

Summer's been wild for us, early workouts, long days in the sun, and of course a new baby. So I have found that starting my day with AG1 next gen just sets me up to literally crush it. Sadie and I both have been on the AG1 train for years now, and I'm all about this new next gin formula. When I kick off my morning with AG1, I know that I'm locking in a win. It's one simple scoop, once a day, and I can feel the day. difference, more energy, better focus in that smooth recovery that I need to keep going strong. I can always count on AG1 to help my gut health, support my immune health, and fuel my day.

It is a daily habit that keeps me consistent and dialed in. And I love the AG1 next year and is clinically back to help fill the nutrient gaps in my diet. We're three years in and I can confidently say that AG1 has been a total game changer for me. You've heard me talk about age 1 in the past. I love drinking in the mornings. It's part of my routine. I don't like having coffee or caffeine early in the morning. So I love that AG1 gets my day started off right.

It helps my overall health, my immunity, my gut health. I think it tastes delicious. And like I said, it just sets me up for success first thing in the morning by getting all my vitamins that I need. And now they have rolled out new flavors, tropical, citrus and berry, along with the original. They're all delicious. I would say berry is my favorite. I love fruit, and the berry one just tastes delicious to me. And if you were on the fence about the original flavor, trust me, you've got to try one of the new ones.

So like I said, the berry one is my go-to. but honestly, every flavor is solid, so you cannot go wrong. I also love that AG1 skips all the add of sugar and sketchy ingredients. I know it's giving my body exactly what it needs day after day, and I am pumped to partner with AG1 because Sadie and I fully trust that what they're bringing to the table is legit. Give the new AG1 next-gen flavors I tried today. Head to drinkag1.com slash whoa,

and you'll get a free welcome kit worth $76 when you subscribe, including five AG1 travel packs, a shaker, canister, and a scoop. That is drinkagy1.com slash whoa to get started. It's been an interesting journey because it's not been easy at times. I remember for so many years just struggling with so much fear and how God viewed me. And that was something that I wrestled with for a long time and thinking, okay, I was taught that if I stepped outside of this box of these teachings, that God was going to smile. me that if I did anything slightly different than what I was raised in, that danger and danger

was going to come my way. Things were going to come upon me that I couldn't help, but I get out from underneath. And so those things kind of clouded my view of God. And I didn't view him as loving Heavenly Father. I viewed him as somebody who was constantly out to get me for things that maybe I didn't even know I did wrong. And so there was a story. that Bill Gauthord would tell, and he said that it was like this lady, she had this pastor come to her home, and they were trying to figure out, okay, why did her husband and three sons die at sea? And so this pastor came in and said, well, I know you're so heartbroken, but if you just look on your wall, there's a picture of a sailboat. And if you see that picture there, that's the

reason that they died, because there was a picture on your wall, and it was your fault. because you shouldn't have had that up there. And so she was crushed, heartbroken, and he shared that as a positive story and saying, you just got to watch out for everything. And so that makes you crippled with fear, thinking, okay, I don't know what God expects of me. And I'm living under superstition and fear instead of under freedom and peace and knowing what the scriptures say and what God does require of us. And so that kind of was the teachings.

those were the teachings that I was raised under. And at the same time, I would say my parents did teach us that God was loving and kind Heavenly Father, but the teachings of Bill Gauthored quickly overclouded that and made it difficult for me to see up from down. And so my journey has been one of realizing, okay, there was this teacher who, like I said earlier, he claimed to speak for God, but he didn't.

And so he would look at those things that he taught as gospel. And a lot of people would say he was a teacher. and prophets sent from God, so we should follow him. But when I started to stop and realize, okay, these teachings are not, in fact, based in the Bible. They are a man's opinion and they're not true. It took me a long time to be able to come back to the Word of God and say, well, what is true? Because often he would take one verse, twist it, and make it say whatever he wanted to say. So when those verses were taken so out of context, so twisted, then I started to struggle to disentangle it. And as I use the word disentangle a lot because a lot of people deconstruct,

like you said, throw out everything because they say, okay, I was sold, you know, I was sold this version of Christianity. That's just not true. So I'm going to throw out the Bible. I'm going to throw out God because how could God allow me to walk through this and to grow up believing this? And so they throw it all out. But realizing that, no, God's word is true. And we know that there will be false teachers. We know that there will be people who say things that are not true. We need to be able to go back to the Word of God and say, what does it actually say? Who is this written to? And go back and to say, okay, as painful and hard as it is, I'm not going to throw everything out and just tear my faith down to the studs, never to build it up again. That's what I see

deconstruction as being. But to say, I want to disentangle. And to have this illustration that I've kind of given, it's really silly. But it kind of makes sense. Like if you get gum stuck in your hair, you can totally go shave your head, take the gum out, be done with it. But there's another process. You can go and the painstaking process of taking gum out of your hair, it's slow, it's painful, it's hard, but it's worth it.

And I think that that's the process. That's the image of this disentangling that has taken place. It's really good. I think just opening the Bible for yourself and reading the Word of God has been the most freeing thing and being in a good church that helps you to learn the word has also that's been super helpful for me. It's great. I love that so much. That's a great analogy. And so funny, because I have a little four-year-old who just started chewing gum. She loves gum. And I've been telling her, like, do not get that gum in your hair because it is so hard to get out. So I'm like, man,

that really hits home right now. But that's such a beautiful way of putting it. You know what's interesting is like whenever we open up the questions on Instagram like, hey, what do you all want us to talk about? What do you want us to dive a little deeper in? We have so many people say I struggle so much of feeling like God is mad at me or displeased with me or how do I like get over this fear that God's disappointed in me. And I don't know to what context these people are asking from. Honestly, highly doubt most of them were under teaching like that. You know, I think it's just something that people feel, you know, that God is mad at them, disappointed in them, they have a lot of shame around it. They, like, haven't kind of broken free to really

understand the magnitude of God's goodness and his mercy and his grace and his love. And so I want to ask you, like, now as a believer, do you ever still have that fear and that feeling? And how do you work through it now as opposed to how you did back in the day when you were truly living under fear? Yeah, I think that because it was so ingrained in me, it definitely comes back up. And I can fall into that idea that performance-based is going to be better for me. Like performance-based mindset where I feel like even for my husband or for somebody who's close to me, if I don't keep everything together, then they're not going to love me. If I don't keep God happy with me, he's going to be displeased with me.

So like if that's in spiritual disciplines, I think often in the church we see where people fall into that, they think, okay, if I just read my Bible for an hour every day, if I pray for an hour every day, then God's going to be happy with me. And when I don't, then he's displeased with me. And I think that's where as believers, we have to say, okay, those things are good. To want to pray, to want to read our Bible, we are called to do that as Christians. But what are we putting our faith in? Are we putting in the works that we do? Or is it entrusting in Jesus? And so I think for me, it really starts in my thoughts. It's in taking those thoughts captive.

So whenever the enemy comes and tells me lies about, Ginger, you need to be on your knees praying for this many hours a day. I mean, when I was young and I had time, that was such a sweet season. When you're single, when you don't have kids, when you're not waking up in the night, you can spend way more time in the word and in devotions and prayer and evangelism, all the things that you love. But then when you realize, okay, there are seasons where, man, this is hard, I can't, I can't keep up the amount of time that I was pouring into these things. And I want to be filling my mind with the Word of God. But it's not a legalistic rule. It's not something that I'm trying to fight and strive for in an unhealthy manner. That's where it's really humbling because you do rely on the truth that you've really been able to stack up for all. those years. There's been so much truth that the Lord has brought to mind in those moments when I'm up

at 1 a.m. nursing or a kid has, you know, they're melting down in the grocery store and I'm like, okay, Lord, give me patience right now, please. There are those short prayers that oftentimes, I think the Lord, he hears those prayers and those cries. And I think that in the church, there's so much taught about the disciplines of the Christian life. Yeah. But those can quickly become something that we rely on to say, okay, now I'm more holy because maybe I prayed for an hour today. But I think that for me, it comes back to my thoughts. So, okay, when those thoughts come up, I want to say, Lord, is this something that's from you? Am I neglecting these disciplines? Or is this just even where I need to lean into the grace of God? And I need to remember that. I am a child of

God regardless of these spiritual disciplines being seen right now. And so that's something that has been a challenge. And it's not easy because it comes back daily, I think. And there is a realization that I want to be in that place of being able to love, minister, serve, pour out. But there are also seasons where it's not going to be as easy. And it doesn't change. The Lord's view of me as his child does not change. It's so true. And it's so beautiful in marriage. You kind of see a picture of this. Like, you know, people always say, and it's so true, like, your relationship with the Lord is a relationship. It's just like your relationship with someone else in the sense of like, talk to him, communicate with him. And I think about that with my husband. Like, when we were dating,

we would talk on the phone for hours, you know, like four hours, easy, would just fly by at night. And it's just like all giddy and fun and exciting. And you had the space and the time for that. And then, you know, you get married and you have so much time to go on dates all the time. you're like doing all these intentional fun things and then you have kids and it's so awesome but it's a little different because you're both pouring in so much to your kids you're so tired pregnancy can be such a doozy and postpartum and all the different things with how your body feels and you know the date nights aren't as often and you're definitely not talking the phone for four hours and it might be like a quick call here or there or you know going to bed at night and seeing each other

for a minute and discussing how your heart is and that. But like, my love for him now, my husband is so much greater than it was when we were dating, you know. And I don't question his love for me or if he's disappointed me because we didn't go on a date or we didn't have the time to talk like we used to because like we're doing life together. You know, we're doing the day to day together. And I think about that with the Lord. Yeah, like there were seasons and singleness where it was just like dating, you know, just talking nonsense. stop, you're studying nonstop, you're doing all these things. And then, you know, whenever you get married and you have kids, there is a little bit less

of that time, like the intentional time of like you're not getting up for hours in the morning to just read because you have kids to take care of in the morning and stuff. But it's like, don't think that your relationship is less than. Don't, that doesn't mean it grew apart. Like, I love God so much more than I did even back in my singleness, even though we don't, you know, do as much as back then, but we do all of life together. He's in every single part of my day. And so it's so cool when you visualize it like that. And I think that's when you start to understand like the more the grace of God, the love of God, the relational aspect of God that he really is

in it all. And yeah, there's definitely a correction in that. And there are moments where I'm like, oh, man, I needed that. Holy Spirit, check it in a little conviction moment, you know. not say I'd ignore those things, lean into those things too. But my husband taught me this a long time ago. I was so grateful for how he explained this to me because I used to beat myself up when I would feel convicted for something. He's like, say, do you take conviction as a gift?

Like, that's God telling you that you can do better. Like, you're so much better than that, you know? And it's God's grace that he's even convicting you to want to be better. And so, like, just not living in that shame mentality or that fear mentality because I'm like you, I go to fear a lot. lot um and just anxiety and so anyways that relationship definitely that view of that helps so much

and um i'm just thankful for the ways that you've been so open about your story even we're going to get into your book and just a little bit about people pleaser which i'm like lord we all need that um and even a little bit of becoming free indeed but one thing i want to ask you um because i know your husband was a big part of your story of you really diving into the word and kind of realizing that some of the teaching you were under wasn't necessarily aligned with scripture. Can you tell me a little bit about how you and your husband met and dating him when he had a different, you know, theological viewpoint than you did at the time? Hey friends, let's talk about something that I truly love and believe in, an education that fits

your life and your faith. So whether you're a student, a parent, or somewhere in between, Liberty University has something for your whole family. Liberty offers online programs, from kindergarten all the way to a Ph.D., which is super cool. Their K-12 grade program Liberty University Online Academy is a Christian online academy that's flexible, Bible-based, and still packed with real connection. Think student club, field trip, all the things. And if you're looking at college or grad school, Liberty's online programs let you learn at the pace that you love and that's flexible for you.

There's no set login times and most classes are actually 100% online. I actually took a few online classes through Liberty and I loved how to flexible it was and how faith-centered they are. But if you want to get the full on-campus experience, you've got to check out college for a weekend. You can actually visit this fall either September 18th through the 20th or November 6th through the 8th and try out classes, tour dorms, hit up dining halls, and meet future classmates. It is the perfect way to see if Liberty is where God is calling you next. We have had tons of Liberty experience. My sister went to, did the online high school and did online college and graduated from there.

And then my brother, John Luke, and my brother Will, actually went in person there. And we just love it. I've also spoken at Convo a few times and just believe in it so much. It is a gorgeous campus and you're going to love it. So don't wait. Go to Liberty.edu slash Sadie now to learn more. And because you're a well that's good podcast listener, Liberty is actually going to waive your application fee.

How amazing is that? To go to liberty. com slash Sadie now and take the next step towards your future today. You got this. Yeah. Oh my goodness. It is crazy how God brings your spouse because sometimes that might be through an online Christian dating website. I just had a couple friends who told me about that.

But Jeremy always makes the joke that we met on Farmers Only.com. And that's not true. We actually, it was fascinating. We met through my brother-in-law, Ben, he actually introduced. us, but before that, how Jeremy met Ben was like a whole thing, and it involved a guy on Facebook. There was this, like, random page that my brother-in-law followed, and he, like, would follow this guy who had all these encouraging posts about scripture and all these things. So anyhow, my brother-in-law was in San Antonio to meet up with somebody, and he said,

hey, I would love to connect with this guy on Facebook. book. And so he messaged the guy and he said, okay, we're having this fellowship, come to this fellowship, and there's a whole bunch of Christians gathering to eat pizza. So he said, I'll send somebody to the Alamo because they were in San Antonio. He said, I'll send somebody to the Alamo in this color car. You go get in their car and they will take you to where the Christians are eating pizza. No joke. So my brother-in-law is like, okay, a little naive. He's like, we might get murdered, but let's go, Jess. So Jess and Ben hop in this random car. They go to this place where all these Christians were for sure eating pizza

there and they meet Jeremy there. And it was so random. The guy who invited him from Facebook wasn't there. And so they show up and they're like, are we supposed to be here? Where's Matt? And the guy's like, oh yeah, Matt's never here. He's always working. But we're glad you're here. So they welcomed them in. And they met Jeremy at that house. That was a house that he was living at that time doing some ministry and playing soccer. And so, yeah, they met him and hit it off. And then my brother-in-law ended up inviting him to a conference. Actually, it was an IBLP conference that we were, our family was visiting in Texas.

And so we ended up like showing up there. Jeremy showed up. He had no clue where he was. And he met our family. Was your brother-in-law, like, trying to set? Was he trying to set ill up or not necessarily? He was. He was.

Yeah. He kind of told Jerry, he said, Jeremy at one time, like, later down the road, he told him he was like, yeah, it's super lonely being in the ministry and being single because Jeremy had just started pastoring a small church plant. It literally had like 10 people on the border of Mexico in Laredo, Texas. And he said, I'm just praying that the Lord would bring me a spouse. And my brother-in-law Ben just said casually, he's like, yeah, well, I have some sister-in-laws were pretty godly. So let me know if you needed to be set up or whatever. And that was kind of just like a joke. So he ended up following up with him. And it was kind of crazy because

he invited him to this conference. And it was a Bill Gothard conference to like come meet my family. And so Jerr shows up and it was kind of like, this is interesting. Everybody's dressed the same. They all kind of look the same. He had no clue what he was getting himself into. And he met Lawson Bates that day, kind of crazy. Our mutual friend and kind of like, who are all these big families? What are they doing here? And it was, it was really interesting because he had kind of like, he had saw the show at this family's house that he lived at for a couple of years. And he was kind of like, he'd make fun of the show when he'd walk by and they'd be watching it. He'd be like, that's so weird. That's so strange. He made fun of my sister-in-law's engagement because he's like,

oh, my goodness, you can't fly on a private little. playing. Like, who does that for an engagement? Like, that's just so unrealistic. These people on reality TV. So he kind of like poke at it, but it was funny because then he showed up, he's like, oh my goodness, it's the same family. That is hilarious. Yeah. So it wasn't until later on, like we kind of met each other that day in passing, but it was several months later when he came out to Arkansas to visit Ben and Jess that Jeremy, he really started to kind of notice me and he thought, okay, this girl has a heart for the Lord, but he knew that there were theological differences. He knew that it was like, there were a few things that we did differently. Like,

I only wore skirts and didn't listen to music with drums. He didn't know half of those things initially, though. So he was like, that's kind of weird, but okay, she's really has a heart for Jesus. She loves to share the gospel. And so he found out that my family was going on a mission trip and Jeremy was like, okay, Ben, like, how do I get in with the family? Because we were still filming. There was a lot going on. And he had interest in me. And Ben's like, oh, yeah, just sign up for this missions trip to Central America. The whole family, like 15 of them go on a trip every December. Just go with the family. And the trip was happening in, like, the next week. So he had him sign up. And Jeremy came on that trip. And that's where we fell in love, was in El Salvador.

door. And he ended up, like on that trip, we were doing ministry next to each other. And he was like, okay, I just want to like ask Mr. Dugger if I can get to know his daughter. And so at the end of that trip before he left, he said, hey, Mr. Dugger, like, can I talk to you? I'm interested in your daughter. And my dad just kind of told him, yeah, well, I think that we should get to know each other for a few weeks. So he said, how about you just talk to me for a few weeks before? And then we'll move from there. So that couple weeks actually ended up turning into five and a half months of Jeremy talking to my dad. And he sent him a 50 page questionnaire to fill out. Your dad did. And it was interesting. Yeah. 50 page questionnaire going from everything from finances to like do you, yeah,

do you have debt? Oh my gosh. You know, what are your previous relationships? What do you think your next 10 years look like in your life? What do you do for a living? All the things. And so Jared filled that. out within like two days, sent it back to my dad. And that started their discussion for five and a half months. And a lot of that really was because being in the public eye, there was a certain level of realizing you're going to have to make it through my dad, my brothers, because there were so many people at that time who would reach out to us girls. And as you know, you get like, you get so many letters, letters from people in prison, letters from people everywhere. And you, it's hard to sort through if you're somebody from the outside.

and you're not just like one of our friends we grew up with. And so it was a lot to put up with. And so he kind of went through the ringer and made it out on the other side with my parents' full approval and blessing. And it was incredible just to see how he honored them through that process, even though it was something none of us really expected to happen. But once he made it through, we started talking. And the more that we started to talk, Jeremy, he didn't, like I said, fully realize what teachings I was in and the theological differences that were there.

But my dad had asked him to watch 60 plus hours of Bill Gothard's teaching before we could get engaged. So he started watching these videos and he was like, oh, wow, there's a lot more here than I realized. And we were FaceTiming a lot. And he, through those calls, would say, hey, I think we should watch some of these seminars together and see what Bill Gothard says. And so we'd watch a bit of a seminar. It would be like 30 seconds. And then Jared would pause it.

And he'd say, wait, hold on a second. What did he say? What do you think about that? And so we opened the Bible together. And in that time, there was so much that I believed was the Word of God. That was actually just Bill Gothard's teaching. And so when we would pause those videos, it was actually the biggest blessing that My dad asked him to watch that because we were able to talk through those things and pause the videos, open the Bible, and we'd see where Bill Gauthored said half the time, the exact opposite of what the word of God said.

But he was so, he was so able to take a verse and twist it and make it say what he wanted to say. And then by the end of the seminar, he had you making a vow to God to keep that man-made rule that he had just made up. And so it was very deceptive. But it was freeing when we did that because I started to see, wow, this is not how God operates. He does not operate. He doesn't want us operating based out of fear. And a lot of the manipulation that Bill Gothard used, those tactics, I started to realize it for what it was. And it started to fall off.

And so through all of those hours of sitting through, listening to the teachings and breaking it down, those chains of like bondage started to. just fall off. And I realized, wow, this is so helpful. This is so freeing. And I wanted other people to know about it. I wanted them to be able to come to freedom in Christ too, because you don't want to be sitting there thinking that God is out to get you at every turn because that is a miserable way to live. God is a just God. And he does, he will act justly, but we will know what he requires of us. It's not like this, you know, superstition that we have to live under in this. fear that's crippling. And so it was really, really amazing how the Lord used that. And he used Jeremy in many ways to help to lead me out of those teachings. And to really find a balanced view,

just from going to the word and seeing what it actually said. Heading back to campus means new classes, new people, and a lot of late night screen time. And let's be real, that means your screen can pull you into places that just don't line up with the person you're trying to become. That's why I love Victory by Covenant Eyes. Victory is an app that helps you stay accountable online and keeps your eyes and your heart focused on what really matters, your faith, your goals, your future. Victory software monitors your screen activity and sends reports to a trusted friend or partner of your choosing, opening up a space for communication and honesty. So whether you're breaking free from unhealthy habits or just trying to say intentional,

the Victory app by Covenant Eyes gives you the tools and support to do that. friends this is not about guilt or feeling ashamed it is about growing into the person god created you to be college is your time to shine so let's take charge of your screen time and your future um honestly it has been um i think such a beautiful thing how many young people are telling their story when it comes to struggling with pornography and overcoming that i think that a lot of people have this narrative of it's just guys that struggle with that but obviously so many girls do too and that's why i'm super excited to share this with you guys just a way to help you step into freedom i can't recommend covenant eyes enough, go to covenanteis.com slash sadie to learn more and start your journey towards freedom today.

That's covenanteyes.com slash sadie. That is the coolest story. Like, it is so beautiful to see how you guys walked out your whole relationship. And just even like recap from the very beginning that he's like, how do I get in with the family? And normally I'd be like, yeah, here's her number. He's like, yeah, just go on the mission trip to like, you know, Salvador. He's like, no chill. Like, go on the strip. Then he does. Then he actually like gets into a relationship with your dad five and half months. Like that that's a good amount of time to get to know someone's father and then answer the questionnaire and like actually go through the process because you're right. Like

one thing that people probably don't realize about reality TV, especially whenever you're young and you're a girl, is that there are a lot of people, especially in the faith-based community we got like where people feel like they're supposed to marry you and that they're, you know, their mom is convinced that you were the one for their son and like yes it's always the moms like they had a word from the Lord or a dream or this or that and yeah yep and it's really confusing and weird as a young woman to like navigate and process that and so to just bring more understanding from also understanding the context of like reality and TV even without different teaching your parents are very careful and cautious of who you date because there are a lot of

lot of interesting people out there who have strong convictions that they're the one that you're supposed to marry. And so I think it's really cool that Jeremy, like, honored that and understood that. And then I think it's really cool to that. Whenever he understood just how big y'all's differences was, he wasn't like, okay, this won't work, you know, or we're too different. Like, the fact that he was like, hey, let's study this together. Like, what an amazing man of God to, like, lead that in your relationship. That's so cool. Because so many people, I mean, I literally heard this from a friend a couple of days ago. She was, they were kind of like talking.

Well, they hadn't even really started talking. They hadn't even gone on a first date. And basically, one of them realized that they believe something a little bit different. And it wasn't even, it wasn't dramatic. It was just little differences in the way that they really were raised. And then they decided not to even go on a first date. And I was like, what? Like, that is so wild because y'all are so both.

of you are so great and I could just see so much potential for them, but it was like one little thing that that was different in the way they believed. And of course things are going to be different in the way that you believe based off of how you were brought up. And again, not that the Bible is different. When you get in the word, you're like, okay, we are aligned on that. But you have to leave space for the way people grew up and were raised and how you got to come together and be like, what are we going to believe as a family based off the truth of the word of God? How are we going to raise our kids. What do we? And then when you come to that mutual agreement, like, oh, we're aligned and it's on the word, then you're good. You know, you're good to go. You can talk about

past all you want. You can help each other work through it. But you have an alignment on the word. And so I just think a lot of couples miss out on maybe they're both of their growth in the word, because maybe one thing was a little different based off how they grew up. And obviously, like, there are bigger dramatic things. I'm not talking about like if someone is an unbeliever and unwilling to study the word or not wanting that at all, don't be unequally yoked. But then there are just things that are different in the ways that you grew up in traditions that you work through in the word. So your story is very inspiring and I hope people really are paying attention to that. It's so cool because you wrote this book, People Pleaser, which again,

Like, even that title is about to make everybody go on and buy it. And if you're not buying it, if you haven't already bought it, you need to buy it. Because this book is incredible. But that was really cool. I was hearing you talk about in an interview that it was actually while you were writing your other book, becoming free indeed, that you started really noticing how much of a people pleaser you really were. Can you talk about just that writing process for another book that kind of uncovered something in your heart? You maybe didn't even realize it was fully there.

Yeah, for sure. I think when I started to write, becoming a little bit. free indeed. That was my theological memoir. It was basically talking about how I was raised under those teachings of Bill Gothard and how I came to freedom in Christ. And it was a hard book to write primarily because I thought I would leave that setting that the family and friends that grew up under those teachings may reject me or it may just be difficult. And so at the end of the day, the reason I decided to write it was because I knew, okay, this is not a tell-all. This is just my journey of faith. This is talking about the fears that I faced under those teachings. And I

wanted people who followed those teachings to find freedom in Christ, to come to know Jesus as a kind and loving Heavenly Father. And that was something that was really a burden of my heart. And so God gave grace and helped to walk through that. But it was not easy. I mean, many nights, I just remember, breaking down in tears and praying and asking God for strength to help me because I didn't know what was going to come after that. But the Lord was very faithful and kind and really gave peace in my heart moving forward with that book. And a lot of my fears were not realized. I did have friends and loved ones who did not approve and did not think it was right that I would speak out against Bill Gothard, but at the same time, I think that the Lord, when he calls you to do

something, he will give you the grace and the peace to walk in that way. And so that's exactly what happened. And then when I was writing that book, though, I felt that turmoil in my heart thinking, okay, I'm such a people pleaser. Like, I've got to stop being such a people pleaser because ultimately it's not loving to those around me. If I'm thinking constantly consumed by what others think of me, trying to keep everyone happy. I can make somebody happy on one side of the, you know, one side of the issue. Somebody else is going to be mad on the other side. Somebody's going to be mad that I'm walking with Christ.

Another person's going to wish that I would have left the faith. So I cannot be a people pleaser in that way. And not all people pleasing is bad because, like, we realize, like, there are elements to it. So we're designed for a community. It's a good thing to want people to like you. You don't want to just be a rash person who doesn't care about anybody. there's that side of people pleasing. But for me, it manifests itself in a crippling fear. And it kept me from speaking up for the vulnerable, speaking up for those who were in harm's way. And I'd rather

stand by and be passive when I should probably speak up. And that was something that the Lord was showing me. And I started to see, man, I really want to break free from this. And so through that book process, that book writing process, once it was out there, I was like, wow, I feel like I should write a book talking about my struggles through people pleasing and also some things that the Lord's taught me on this journey. And so I definitely saw people pleasing show up in many forms and in many times. So when I was a young kid, I wanted to like keep everybody happy with me through my teenage years. I struggled with an eating disorder. And so it was hard for me for just the those years as a young teen to wrestle through my body image. And that was another form of people

pleasing, trying to make everybody like me by looking a certain way. And then the older I got once I was married, it was with my husband. Is he going to like me? Is he going to prove of me? And then with kids, it's next level because you can't keep your house perfectly clean. If you want community, you're going to have to invite them into the mess and into the chaos at times and not keep everything perfect. And so I started to realize, wow, showing up in so many areas in my life. And if I can just be willing to, by God's grace, open up and share a few stories and helpful verses that have come to mind, then maybe this could be helpful to other moms and other young people who are coming up behind me. Oh, man, I'm so glad you did because it's so real.

And it's so true. It's like when you have a thing like people pleasing, it doesn't just affect one area of life. You really do see it affect every area of your life. And very similar to you had, you know, struggle with an eating disorder in high school. And a lot of that for me, I think, came from, like, how crazy life was with, like, being known by so many people. And it felt like one thing I could, like, kind of control. And it was just, like, for a little bit different reasons, but also same. Like, there was this element underneath it of people pleasing for, like, the people that I was dating. I thought I would be, like, more. attractive if I was thinner or more fit or more whatever and like always trying to like keep up

with this image that people you know had of me or so I thought they did or whatever and um then it's so true if you don't uproot that and if you don't address that it will go into all the other things of your life even the good things because for me like that people pleasing and even the eating or so it came out of like a really unhealthy toxic time of my life where I was like not in great relationships and not in a great head space. But then even when I got into like a good space, like I'm now in a great relationship with like a man who I love and I'm married to and children, like because I didn't kind of address that thing,

that came in and tried to take away from the goodness of what I had. You know, and I'm like, wait a second. Like, no, we got to deal with this because I don't want this to take away or poison like something that's so beautiful and so good that I have. And I remember, like, coming head on to the people-pleasing thing the day after I had my first daughter in the hospital because it was so crazy. I just really realized how much I cared about what people thought of me. And it's so interesting because if you would have asked me at that time, like, do you care if people think of you, I'd be like, no, I'm so past that, you know. There's so many opinions of me out there, blah, blah, blah.

I'm confident in who I am, all this stuff. But in the hospital, I realized how much I kind of did care, and it lingered because I had in my mind, like, I was going to have a natural birth, and I wasn't going to have an epidural and a little while and, like, you know, had the way I wanted to do it. And my doctor kept telling me, like, that's probably not smart. Like the baby, he could tell, like, the baby was big, by the way she was measuring. I was 41 weeks. He really felt like it was going to be better to get induced.

And I was like, no, no, no. finally my husband was like you need to listen to the doctor and I'm like okay fine but I'm not getting epidural like I want to at least like do that natural well you know I get to like 6 a.m. I had gotten there like the night before and it's like 6 a.m. I stayed up all night in so much pain and finally I was like why am I not getting an epidural? Like I just kind of asked myself that question and I realized it wasn't because I thought it was wrong or anything like that it was literally just like what is my what are my friends going to think who didn't you know who they went natural and so I should go natural what is like online going to think because I've said I was

going to go natural like all the it was all what people were going to think so then thankfully I did get the epidural and I didn't know I was about to have such a crazy childbirth because honey had shoulder dissociate and it was just like a wild situation and I'm so thankful I had it then after it was like breastfeeding and it was like all these complications I was having but I was like I got to do it and I was like realizing it was because I was scared at what people were going to think about me and I had this heart to heart with myself in the hospital of like okay this has to stop now like I God you have made me the mother of this child you were going to equip me with everything I need to be the best mom that I can for her and I am not going to look to what

people think or people's opinion like I'm looking to you to help me raise her. And I'm like so glad for that. And not that there hasn't been struggles in times that I felt insecure and all that stuff. But like that was such a heart-changing moment for me where I was like, I'm not going to like let that pattern just keep spiraling. And I know for you, motherhood was a big wake-up call as well. Like what did you see, how did you see people pleasing start to sneak into motherhood for you? Yeah. Well, I love that story. First off, I have to say that because I was in a similar boat. I think that was one of the first things I noticed in motherhood because so many people before me had done the whole homebirth and no medication whatsoever. And I knew I didn't want to

do that, but I also didn't want to say it. Yeah. So I kind of was like, I'm just going to do my own thing. But I definitely did feel the pressure of other people's opinions. And I let that affect me a lot. But yeah, but scooting back a little bit, I think that when I first realized as a mom, the people-pleasing tendencies, it was when we first moved here to California. We're in L.A. and we had moved from a small church plant in Texas. Jeremy came out here for seminary. And it was a big move. And as we left that small church, I remember one of the ladies in our church told me, she said,

Ginger, I feel like I don't really get to know you, didn't really let us into your life in a deep way. And I was like, oh, like that, that killed me hearing that. It just really shook me up. And when we moved here to L.A., it was, you know, we knew a few people, just a couple, and started to get plugged in a local church, and it was great. But at the same time, I had a lot of fear. And I felt myself feeling like I was just performing all the time. It was, not like I was trying to. I was trying. I really genuinely love the Lord. It wasn't performance in even the spiritual duties. It was more so just in everyday life. So if a mom came over and her kids only ate organic food, I quickly hide my goldfish or something that I happened to buy

the day before. And I would, there would be things like that where I would just panic and fear. Like there was a mom who, when I first moved here, she said, oh, Ginger, I'm in the area. Can I just swing by her house. I wanted to like drop off something for you. And so I was like, sure, yeah, come on over. But it took everything in me to tell her that she could come to my house because that day, I just didn't have it all together. I had a little toddler and my house was a mess and I was embarrassed, but I needed her to come over and drop this off. So I was like, sure, come over. And anyhow, once you know, her little one was just starting to crawl. She put her on my carpet and she crawled over under my table, started eating dried Cheerios off the floor, literally picking them off

the floor. And I was like, oh, my word, I'm so mortified. I do clean my house. I promise it was clean. Anytime people are not at my house, it's like spotless because I love a clean house. But then when no one comes for like three days, somebody pops in unexpectedly. And it's like, they think I am like, our house is always a disaster and it's just not. So I was mortified. I was like, oh my goodness, she's never going to. going to come over again because here her kid is eating these shirios off the floor. And she so graciously, I was like, oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. So I ran to grab the broom and she picked her kid up and was like, it's fine. She would have got them off of our floor if it wasn't yours. So I went

and got her a bowl of like proper cereal. And I cleaned that up off the floor. But it's things like that, right, as moms that can be so big in our mind. And it really ultimately, when it's coming down to it we have to think okay what is my motivation what am i trying to keep up is it this image and yeah we don't want to be slobs but at the same time in that case it's like i realized i was sacrificing this true relationship for something that i wanted to keep picture perfect yeah and ultimately i've realized that throughout that season when i was in texas i would so often just like push people out. And I think some of that too, maybe you can relate to. I'm not sure. But being in the public eye, there's pressures that we put on ourselves. And so so many people may think of us a certain way

or have an image in their mind of who we're supposed to be. Our personality on the show may have been more crazy and bold. And maybe when they come to my house, I might not have caffeine in my system. And so maybe I'm going to be more chill. And I think that those things often can keep us from having people in our lives. But ultimately, the real thing is, like, as Christians, we are called to be genuine, real, to have those relationships where somebody can come into our life and challenge us and they can see who we truly are. That's our spouse. That's a close friend. But those are all gifts of God. But if we're pushing that away in true community, oftentimes we're not going to allow ourselves to have anybody, even

share a needful critique with us because we're so consumed with who we want them to see us as. And so I think those challenges were ones that I faced definitely in motherhood. I can relate so much. I actually wrote down a quote from your book, The lifestyle of image management becomes isolating and unsustainable. And I was like, that is so true. And I actually had a really similar conversation with my community in Nashville before I moved my friend thankfully it was like a good bit before I moved and she's one of my best friends to this day but she was like city I just feel like we don't know you you know like she's like I feel like you're everybody's friend but like you don't let anyone actually like be your friend

back you know like you're everyone's friend from a distance but not like up close and um I was like no you're like you're right um you're right I don't like I don't like I don't like I don't I don't even, it's not that I'm trying not to. It's just that it's kind of like you. You were nine years old whenever you started the show. I was 13 when we started filming our show. You don't even try, like it doesn't feel like you're trying to perform. It's just that you know what, when the camera's on, you're just, you just know how to act, you know?

Or like when so many people are in your house, you're just going to behave. Like, you're just going to do it right. Yeah. And like you kind of know, you know, in reality TV, it's like you're playing. yourself but you do kind of get characterized as like a version of yourself so like you know how to play into that and so not that you're trying to it just i think it happens for anybody like anytime you know people pull out the video camera like you're gonna kind of like sit up a little straighter and people like watch themselves back and they oh i hate the way my voice sounds

well it's like when you're so used to seeing yourself on camera you don't even mean to but you can kind of become like that and be so like aware i remember one of my best friends told me one time it was pretty funny. We were all on a wedding together and I said something about like oh, I don't like the way my arm looks on camera. I can't remember what I said.

Some of my arms and the way that they looked based up the way that we were all positioned in this photo and she goes, you've seen yourself on camera too much and it was like

such a good best friend moment to be like no one cares like no one else noticed your arm you noticed your arm. Totally. And I'm like so thankful for those friendships

And ever since my friend confronted me that first time, I've done friendships so differently and actually let them in. And it has been the greatest gift of my entire life to be seen for who I am and known for who I am, like, the good, the bad, the ugly, all of it. And it's so funny that you bring up the cheerio thing because that actually, like, that's very similar happened to me. I was hosting a baby shower. And it was so hilarious.

So, like, right, whenever you come in my door, there's this little, like, bench thing. and someone suggested, oh, we could use that bench for the, you know, mom to be to sit on. I was like, oh, that would be perfect. So, like, I'd pick it up. And as soon as I pick it up, on the back side of the bench, there is a whole cinnamon roll stuck to the thing. I love that. There's literally no telling how long that's been there. It was like rock solid.

Oh, that's so great. And I'm like, when did they put that there? But it's like so just part of being a mom and like, here we are. Yes. And it was so cool because one of my friends actually told me she's like, you know, whenever I come to your house, she's like, I mean, this is a compliment, but how kind of, you know, chaotic it is, it makes me feel the freedom for like, it's okay, my house looks like that. And it's so true. Like, when you're just like free in who you are, it really does

give people the gift to be free in who they are. And it's like, it's just beautiful. When you're walking in freedom, it kind of gives people the gift to be free themselves. And you're walking in your originality. It gives people the gift to be original themselves and feel celebrated for that. And so it really is such a gift when you can break free of that pleasing mentality and performance mentality opens a door for like true relationship and growth. Ginger, this is so crazy. We've gone 53 minutes. Like this podcast is like at the end and I'm like I feel like I have so much more to talk to you about. But I just want to say you are truly a gift to the world. The way that you have handled your life in the public eye with so much grace. And even

just like you didn't have to write the books you know you didn't have to start the podcast you didn't have to keep putting yourself out there but the fact that you continue to and you continue to show people the true love of the father it is such a gift and I'm just so thankful for your platform and to everyone listening on this podcast because this went by so fast you got to go get her book there's so much more where this came from listen to her podcast dive into the world of ginger and jeremy and you will be blessed but thank you truly so much for the wisdom you poured out today it was so good well thank you so much for having me sadie it's been a joy and yeah hopefully we can connect more again soon and you're in l-a i didn't even know that so now i'll next time i go to

we'll have to connect let us know that would be awesome oh this was fun thank you so much for being on Oh, yeah.