WHOA That's Good Podcast - God Had a Better Plan — Ben & Erin Napiers’ Unexpected Journey | Sadie Robertson Huff

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

In this fun convo, Sadie gets the inside scoop on how Ben and Erin crushed on each other from a distance in college (but didn’t know how to say it), how they finally got together, got married, and somehow ended up building a hit TV show. Erin also shares how blogging about gratitude to cope with anxiety led an HGTV producer to reach out—and changed everything overnight. Ben gets real about heartbreak, asking: Are we too scared of it now? Sure, it hurts—but it can grow something amazing in your life and in your faith. And Erin spills why she’s hyped to start homeschooling their girls. Start taking your sleep seriously with AGZ. Head to https://drinkag1.com/whoa to get a FREE Welcome Kit with the flavor of your choice that includes a 30-day supply of AGZ and a FREE frother https://drinklmnt.com/whoa — Get a free LMNT Sample Pack with any purchase! Chapters:  01:50 Ben's best piece of advice 03:29 Erin's best (new) piece of advice 05:15 When Ben & Erin first met 15:02 Dating right now 18:30 Heartache & loss 23:00 Six days & then "I love you" 28:00 Anxiety & counting our blessings 46:30 Dreaming about the future 56:35 Trade school & the social pressure to go to college Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fall is comfort food season. I want the soups, the stews, all the casseroles, the pies, come on, throw it all at me. But I do not want the stress of planning at all, dragging the kids to the store or figuring out dinner at 6 p.m. Hungaroo gets me. After a fun quiz, they fill my grocery cart based on what I actually like to eat and send recipe ideas that takes 15 minutes or less to make. The groceries show up at my door and we don't have to fight over what's for dinner every single night. It's just like having a personal shopper and a chef rolled into one. Hungerroot makes it so easy. So whether your dairy, free, gluten-free, high-protein, or just trying to eat cleaner. Everything's high-quality, too,

no sketchy additives, just real wholesome ingredients from brands that you can actually trust. No matter what you're into, Hunger Root totally gets your vibe. We love Hunger Root. Honestly, it's so amazing. Their snacks are incredible. They have all these fun snacks. They have smoothies, high-protein stuff, good stuff for the kids. And also, like, I love a little sweet at night, and they have all these little sweets that are, like, you know, great quality ingredients and not bad for you. So I just love stuff like that. So take advantage of this at school. of offer for a limited time get 40% off your first box plus get a free item in every box for life go to hungarroot.com slash woe and use the code woe that's hunger root dot com slash woe with the code woe to

get 40% off your first box and free item of your choice for life hunger root dot com slash woe with the code woe what's up whoa that's good fam i hope you're having a great week but per usual it is about to get so much better because we have two very special guests on the podcast. One is back for the second time. The other one, it is the first time appearance on Whoa, that's good. And I am thrilled to get to interview Ben and Aaron Napier. Welcome back to the podcast, Aaron, and welcome for the first time, Ben. What's up? Thank you so much for having us, Sadie. We're supposed to be there in real life today, but the weather there is absolutely horrible. I know. The weather is nuts. And I'm glad you even said that because for those who listen, you might hear thunder roaring in the back.

And yeah, it is even hailing here today. So it's good for you all. You aren't here, but stinks for all of us that we couldn't hang out. The next time it's going to happen. But next time. Next time, we're going to be there. Yeah. No, I'm so excited. Like I mentioned, Aaron, you were on the podcast when my mom was doing interviews when I was postpartum. And I went back and listened to that episode and it was so encouraging. and I remember that being one of the favorites of the year, truly, just reached a lot of people and people were very encouraged and loved it. And so it's a joy to have you back with your hubby this time. You know, I know you got asked the question, but Ben, you haven't been asked this question

yet. And this is the question I ask everybody in the Let's Good podcast. If you don't see this coming, I'm sorry it's going to come so from left field, but it's okay. Just whatever comes your mind. What is the best piece of advice you have ever been given? Boom. Do the best you can. Don't worry about it. You're ready. Right. Well, it's like, it is my go-to because it's this, there was this my dad is a preacher and they were at this country church for a while and there was this guy there who he was born with a speech impediment. He was an older man. He was born with a speech impediment. And because of the time and the place that he was born and grew up, his family was like, oh, well, he's handicapped. He's not going to school.

He's going to, like, work on the farm or whatever. He never learned to read. And he also had very poor vision. Yeah, he was blind, basically. But he couldn't, they couldn't get his glasses figured out because he couldn't read or write. So, you know, this. They didn't do the picture charts like they do with toddlers? They may do that now, but back then.

And also, like, you know, he thought he could see. Like before you got glasses, you thought you could see. You thought that that was what things looked like. And so he, but also, like, he had this speech impediment, but he was very sure. I mean, he knew he was perfectly fine learning. He had all the abilities to learn. They just had never been taught. He had a lot of challenges.

And, uh, but he had a great outlook on life and it was do the best you can to worry about it. It's great. Everything's going to be, everything's going to be all right. it's so great in some form or fashion those are the best kind of pieces of advice because they stick with you because that is something that i will now say to the best can i think about it daily it's so easy to think about that and it's so true it's a small piece of advice it goes a really long way um erin i know you've shared before on the well that's good podcast but do you have any fresh best pieces of advice for us um yes my friend lisa has really exceptional kids who are her youngest is now in high school and our oldest or all in college are graduated and they're all remarkable. She's a working,

she and her husband both are working, career people. But they were super involved in their kids' lives and always as a family, they would sit around the dinner table and talk about their five people, the five friends in your life who are influencing you are making you who you are.

So what are those qualities of those five friends and let's talk about it? And it would, she learned by talking about it regularly, helped her kids weed out friendships that were not good with people who were not shaping them into the person they wanted to be. And so that's, I think, great advice. You can even talk about that with a first grader.

Yeah, it's so good too, because instead of, like, you as the parent having to come in and say, like, you shouldn't hang out with this person or that person, it lets the kids figure out discern it and who they should hang out with or not. I love that. That is so good. When my kids are old enough, I'm going to bring that one into our rotation. Growing up, our parents are always people that our parents, both of us have talked about

that our parents didn't want us to be around. And at the time, we were very like, you don't know what you're telling. You don't know them. And then as time went on, we figured it out like, oh. You were so right. They were right. Yeah, it's so true. So it's a way of them figuring it out on their own.

It saves you a lot of that, that just being. stupid with the wrong feel. Yes. Oh my gosh. It's good. Okay, so last time you were on this podcast, Aaron, you were talking about when you first met Ben. And you mentioned from your perspective that you felt like you were just bombing it. Every time y'all talk, you just didn't say it the right thing.

So I got to hear, now that we have been on the podcast to clear this, did she bomb it? What was y'all's first meeting like, Aaron? Do you still feel like that? She says that she bombed it. And she's, I've heard her say that. I didn't know what I was supposed to say to a boy I had a crush on for a year when he walks up to me and finally says hello. Like I couldn't say, I love you so much. I want to marry and have your babies.

I was very. Tell me what you wish I had said. Well, what did you say? So it's very, it came across very differently from my part. Now, I'm very, I was very confident back then. And I was so smooth before I had kids. kids and before, like, I became just a dad. But, so it's the last day of where everyone's moving out of the dorms of college, last

day of freshman year. I'm going home for the summer. Don't know if I'm coming back to school. Don't know what, like, you know, at the time, I was not focused on anything. And I knew who Aaron was and had also had had a crush on her. And since the first week of school, it was the first time I saw her. And, like, Aaron had noticed me because I was very active on campus. And every year.

President of every club. Having a good time. Every page of the yearbook. He's there. But I had just noticed Aaron. She was walking across the student union and they caught my attention. And I was like, wow, that girl's really striking. And I was very interested in her.

And I knew her roommate. I didn't know that it was her roommate, but she was sitting with this girl. and I knew the girl she was sitting with. I walk into McDonald's. This is my opportunity to walk over and speak to this girl that I've been admiring from a distance. So I walk across the room and I'd never like, I would just see Aaron like in the studio. She wasn't involved in like she wasn't at any of the events that I was running except for like she might show up to like a midnight breakfast in the cafeteria or something. But we wouldn't interact.

She would just be there. And so this is my chance. So she's sitting there with this person, I know. I can walk up and speak. I walk over. I talk to her friend and her friend's like, I don't know if you know my roommate, Aaron. I was, oh, hey, I'm Ben Napier. And Aaron says, I know who you are.

I work with a guy who looks a lot like you. And me being the ever so smooth, ever so confident, you know, six foot six, very handsome, very, you know, I'm like, oh, he must be a very good look. guy. And I said, yeah, I guess. I guess. Oh, my gosh. And I was like, I couldn't say what I couldn't say the real thing. Okay, that was a hard position to be put in though. Those tough positions. It was very like, I'm sorry. I put her in this position, but what she should have gone with and we could have, I would have just not gone home for the, for the summer was I'm, yes, he does, he is good looking. And you are too. And I'm in love with you. And we should get married. have kids. And then we could have gotten this show. You totally would have been completely

accepting. Absolutely. If you had said that in that moment, I would have been like, done. Hindsight's always 2020, right? But is it true, Aaron, that you actually dated the guy after work because he looked like Ben? And that was kind of the reason. He was a very, very nice guy. But he was Diet Ben, you know. Or not Diet Ben, just different. Different. Dr. Pepper and Mr. Pibb. He was very quiet. Coke and Pepsi.

No. Y'all were very, very different. We couldn't have a conversation. And the first time, Ben and I, like, he looked like Ben Napier, so I went on a few days. That is so. But then, uh, there were two more door slams. Um, one was, I totally bombed a conversation with Aaron and I was trying to, like, use something to pay her a compliment.

at the time she had a pixie cut and I was like short hair like that's that's that looks really great a lot of a lot of girls can't pull that off but it looks great on you and joy her friend who was sitting at the table with her had we had literally come from the hair salon where she had cut her hair that was to the middle of her back up to here oh my god it just said that most girls can't pull off short hair and so I have to say I have to step out for her and be like Well, it's funny that you say that. Joy just cut her hair. You're just trying to want to know.

So it looks great on you, you too. You didn't even notice the juice there. Yeah, Joy, it looks, your hair looks great too. Okay, bye. See you later. So that was the second one. Then the third one was, uh, I was driving across campus. I think I covered all this year, a year ago.

No, no, no. This is fresh crowd, fresh audience. New ears. Guys, is Christian jumping in again for Sadie while she is still on maternity leave? Fall weekend for me usually mean two things, chasing the kids around the yard and catching lots of football games. But let's be real, staying up late for the night game does not do me any favors if I don't recover well, especially with kids that I'm chasing around.

And that is why AGZ has become such a part of my nightly routine. AGZ is AG1's new drink for winding down at night. Adding it to my nighttime routine was such a no-brainer since AG1 has been part of my morning routine for years, even before they were a podcast sponsor. AGZ is so great because there's no melatonin and you end up feeling refreshed without the groginess. It's just clinically backed ingredients that help your body and mind ease into restful sleep. AGZ has magnesium for sleep quality, aschwaganda for managing stress, and saffron to help you wake up feeling refreshed. I've been loving the chocolate flavor.

I drink it warm because I love a good cup of hot cocoa before bed, and that's just what I love to do. I love drinking chocolate before bedtime, and the AGZ formula is delicious. And honestly, better sleep for me means that I don't drag through the next morning. I'm feeling refreshed enough to enjoy my time with the family. Like I said, I have a 4-year-old, a 2-year-old, and a couple-month-old kit is now. And, yeah, I need something that I know is going to help me conquer the mornings and the best. And there's no better time to do that than to start my night with AGZ. So if you are listening to this and you are ready to turn down the stress and focus on the rest,

head to drinkag1.com slash woe to get a free frother with your first purchase of AGZ. at us drinkagy1.com slash woe. Third one, I'm driving across campus and I see her walking out of this building and I'm like, it's going to time out perfect. We're going to meet and I slow down and a buddy of mine was in the car with me and he let the window down on his side. She's walking and as she's stepping up, I'm noticing that Aaron was crying. She's like red eyes crying.

And I went, oh, shoot, she's, this girl, she's crying. And I said, hey, is everything okay? And she said, and I had been in that building earlier that day. And she said, how, Ben, someone stole my purse out of the yearbook room. And some people said that you were in the building earlier. So my mind immediately being this poor, you know, kid from South Mississippi, I was like, oh, shoot, she thinks that I stole her purse. Of course I didn't.

And I said, I said, I didn't steal your purse. And she said, no, no, no, that's not what I mean. I was, I promise you, I didn't steal your purse. I wondered if he had seen anyone running with a bag across campus. Oh, my gosh. So I, like, drive away like, all right, well, that's it. I'm never, she's never going to speak to me again, and I need to look in other places. And then I finally got it together when he was running for.

I ran for student body, Mr. J.C., Mr. Jones College. And, you know, it was for the yearbook. and it was as a joke. Me and my buddies did it as a joke. And he was in a tuxedo shaking hands. Yeah, I was going around campaigning and shaking hands. And she was walking out of the building with a group of friends and I knew everyone in the group. And I was like, hey, I said, you're going to vote for me, right?

And Erin, very flirtatiously with her eyes. Well, I had to at some point. She looked at me and said, you know, I voted for you. And it was like this moment where I was like, okay, the door is now cracked open. It's been slammed three times in a row. This time it was cracked open. And then I didn't win that, but the yearbook ended up doing a story on me. I was the editor, the design editor.

Ayo. And we've been inseparable since. As fate would have it, the design editor and the yearbook king, that is so cute. I love that so much. That is the sweetest story ever. And I think it's really cute, like the awkward tension and the cute. of y'all both liked each other from afar and didn't know how to like tell each other that and you're playing it we should have just said it we should all be more honest is the moral of the story see that was that is what i was going to ask you though because people are out there right now in the same pickle they liked a guy forever the guys like the girl forever they don't know how to break the eyes coming from two people how do you break the ice listen i had a long conversation we're in our office so there's people walking around they're normal they're good they're supposed to to be here um so we we had lunch with a friend of mine who's in her 20s this week and she's like

Aaron you just don't understand how awful and hard the dating situation is if you're in your 20s nobody will just say what they mean and everybody is so like um just trying to be like lukewarm and and too cool to say I like you yeah and I would like to get married sooner than later and then I would like to have a family. And they're not saying these things. So they just have what they're calling the situation ship, which I learned about. I feel young and hip knowing what a situation ship is. I still don't understand it.

Well, it's not something that we did. We met and six days later, we're like, let's get married. So wait, all that, all those moments would you all happen within six days? No, no, that was ever a year. Okay, okay. Yeah, over the course of a year. And then when the yearbook story happened, we were together. that day to work on your book and we were together non-stop for six days after and then he was like

I love you and I think I want to marry you one day and I was like well me too and so oh my god and see this but for me it was big that my parents met him in those six days because he's just my friend that came by the house with me not because he was my boyfriend yeah we weren't dating yeah we were in a situation shit. And my parents were just like, he's wonderful. And they had never said anything like that before. Still the best son-in-law they've ever had. The very best. Of course. I only have a brother. That's so awesome. And hey, you're preaching to people out there because seriously, like be honest, you know, because it, you know, one time, I'll be honest. I have a tough story on an honest moment. So my friend had a friend that she had

liked for, she kind of liked him for a while and she would always say, you know, well, if I don't get married, like, I'll marry this guy, you know, like, that was kind of always their thing. Like, if I don't get married, I minute the sky. And I was like, I think you need to tell him that you like him because I don't, like, what if he doesn't feel the same way or what if he does? Because if he doesn't feel the same way, at least we can, like, you can move on and not have that in the back of your mind that one day you're going to marry him. But if he does feel the same way, then let's speed this process out. What are we waiting on?

You know? Why are we going to wait years when it could be now? And so I was like, okay, like you should do it, you should do it. Well, then she did it. And it was like so tough because he was like, oh, I didn't see it like that. Like, I totally thought we were just friends. Well, then I felt so bad because I was like, oh, I'm the worst. Like, why did I tell you to do that?

It was so crushing. Oh, she needed to happen. But at the same time, she was like, no, actually that was a good thing because it stunk in the moment. was terrible. But then it was like, actually, you know that need to happen. And she was like, because in the back of my mind, I always did think he might be the one. And now I'm just glad to know, you know, so I think it's always good, no matter how it turns out, because you at least have clarity. And it helps you move on. Like, it helps you either move on to the right person or he would have been the right person. You'll either get your happy ending or you'll get clarity.

Yes. Clarity may come with heartbreak, but it is clarity. And that's a good thing. Well, so I feel like we're kind of like we've all gotten a little too afraid of heartache. I mean, some of the greatest country songs of all time are about heartache and the greatest, greatest stories we've ever read are about heartache. And you read in the Bible and there's so much heartache. And it's not necessarily bad. I mean, yes, it is tough in the moment, but you always, there's always good that comes after it. You've never had your heartbreaking. I don't know.

I didn't get in, I didn't get accepted to Duke University and get recruited to play basketball there. That was pretty heartbreaking. It was. Okay. Heartbreak can look different ways. Sometimes it's from a breakup. Sometimes it's from a disappointment in life. And that's true.

Actually, I'm reading through Psalms right now. And I haven't read through Psalms in a long time. It's my favorite. It's been so good for me. Like, it has ret taught me how to pray, think. It's for the anxious people. Praise the Lord. And, yeah, I feel like it tells you where you're at in life when you're like, I'm reading

through Psalms. You're like, oh, how's your heart? You're going through it. How's your heart, you know? But it's true. It's like, to your point, we don't know how it's deal with the broken heart. We fear it when sometimes it's necessary. And watching David go through so many, I mean, David's one of the ones that talks about

going through heartbreak the most. And it doesn't look like a relationship. it looks more like running from his enemies or feeling like God is answering him and all these things. But it's so cool because in those Psalms, it's like the truth of how hard heartbreak is matched with the truth of how faithful God still is in the midst of it.

It's always like, but I will still praise you, but you are still here. You are still, and it's so cool. I've been kind of underlining those, but this and this. Like, this can still be true in the midst of that. And so to your point, like, yeah, we fear that. But if it's worth gaining clarity, it's worth it.

And that's my, I want to talk about this a lot with Aaron and with, or we talk about a lot and we talk and talk about it with other people. But so growing up in my house, when I was a little kid, my parents lost everything financially. Like we, they literally, they had a, this old Datson car because the bank said that that car has no value. And so they let my dad. keep it. And we were going on the road. This is one of my earliest memories was riding on the road in this car and the hood flew up and busted the windshield. And my dad's solution was he, he jerked the hood off the car and threw it in the ditch and kept going. And so this is the kind of car we're talking about. And so, but up to that point, up until them losing everything like my dad, he was a

a big farmer and he had um it was this weird bank loan situation that is actually an illegal loan they can't do them anymore and um anyway he lost everything and he rebuilt it all and then he lost it all again and so my perspective on heartache and loss was from watching my parents lose and rebuild and start over and then have a surprise baby late like late in life when they they really like as far as the world was concerned they did not need that child um and he was he was a you know a miracle situation and so um i'm always looking and that's the whole you know do the best you can and don't worry about it because like at the end of the day everything's going to be okay yeah it's it's hard it will be very hard you will have very hard days and um and Aaron like that is probably

her greatest fear is not being prepared and not like planning and not seeing it coming whatever it is yeah it's most people i feel like most people find themselves in that like because fear is the unknown right it's like the what is it's always like the what is what could happen what might happen all the different things and it's so true it's like we don't know what's going to happen and so you that's why like reading through the song mom's so important because it's like reminding you, where does my help come from when it happens? Who is my strength and my shield? Who is my counsel? Who is my rock? Who is my guide? Who is my peace? And it's like it's kind of building up your faith for when those things happen, which is so cool.

So I got to get back to this six days and then you said, I love you. This is so great. How long did it take from I love you to when did you actually propose and what did that look like? Look fam, just because the weather's cooling down does not mean that we can slack on our hydration game. I know Element sounds like a summer thing, sweaty workouts, blazing hot days, but honestly, we need it more whenever the temp start to drop because here's the deal. Hydration isn't just about chugging water. Your body needs the right mix of electrolytes to function well. And when you're busy, you're a little worn down or you're just trying to make it through a chaotic fall week. Element legit helps you feel like a human again.

It is a zero sugar electrolyte drink mix or sparkling water can made without sugar or artificial junk. Just clean, powerful hydration. People, it is so good. I love keeping a stick pack in my bag for whenever I'm feeling a little foggy or sluggish. It's a game changer. I actually have my purse right here and there are about four Element packs in there. So whether you're bundled up for a football game chasing kids through the pumpkin pads or just trying to make it to bedtime without crashing, Element has your back.

Your Element has been my go-to for a little. long time now it is my afternoon pick me up it is so good i crave one every single day um i personally love the lemonade this summer i love the raspberry salt the watermelon salt has been one of my favorites for years um it's just good stuff so get your free element sample pack with any purchase at drink element.com slash woe try element totally risk free if you don't like it they'll refund your order no questions asked that's drink element d r i nk l mn t dot com slash whoa So Aaron's dad had a rule that we both had to have a degree before we could get married. We had to finish our four-year degree.

We had to finish our four-year degree. And I was very, like, up until I met Aaron, I was... Here for a good time. I was here for a good time, and I didn't care if it lasted a long time. Like, I was not... I had no... I mean, like, I was not a... You didn't think about the future.

I was not thinking about the future. future and I still probably don't think about the future because as long as I my thing as long as I've got Aaron and the girls then we're going to be great but um for me college like it was my first chance of freedom and I still like I've never drank alcohol I didn't drink in college I didn't do drugs or anything but I was the like my friends who like hey you know y'all are going to be drinking tonight I'm driving we're not going we're going to go to New Orleans and we're going to sing karaoke at the cat's meow and it's going to be great and we're going to drive home at sunset and we're going to miss class tomorrow.

So my college career was not going that great. You could have used a little focus. I needed some focus and that came through. And you don't need a college degree to do the job that you do, which is the best part. But Aaron's dad, like, you know, you got to have a degree. And so. I think he finished college with a job. like a three point.

It was barely over a two point. You had to have a two point out to graduate and I mean to transfer to to a university in Mississippi and it was like a two point oh one. Oh my guys? You said it. So he got into Ole Miss. Got he in. And he graduated from Ole Miss with a 3.2.

I made nearly all A's and Bs at once I was at Ole Miss and and I was there. And it's funny because Ole Miss is a party school and there was no, there was no, I was buckled down going to graduate and we met christmas 2004 and you proposed september of 2007 yeah okay so yeah it was a fast like i know i love you but then it took a minute to to kind of slow it down and get ready we would have gotten married like right then yeah i told her on six day that i wanted to marry her or i felt like i wanted to marry her so but didn't have the degree and my parents We're like, that's fine. That's great. We love Ben. But let's finish college first. Let's see this first. Hey, there's some wisdom in that. That's some good advice. I love that. So obviously, like, people know y'all now from hometown, HGV and all the different things that y'all do together. But at the time, we're all both pursuing that? Or what were you guys pursuing back in the day?

No, I got an art degree. My major's graphic design, my minor's printmaking. And I worked in corporate graphic design for my first. job after college, like in a glass corporate building in a cubicle, and it was soul crushing. And then I had started a side hustle doing letterpress wedding invitations. And at the time, websites like minted did not exist and where you can just like order letter press anything anywhere anytime. There was no Etsy to do it from. And so my business really blew up and I left my day job and we bought our dream house in downtown Laurel and we renovated it. together, but I had written an online journal, a blog, I guess, but a journal that was only about the best thing that happened every day, because I struggle deeply with anxiety and worry,

which is why Salm's my favorite. Either I walk through the valley of shadow of death, I'll fear no evil, for thou art with me. They ride in thy staff, they comfort me. And I learned that when I was like eight years old, and I'm never forgotten. I'm like, real anxious. Because you were anxious. You were an anxious.

Yeah. And so the blog, the journal blog, was a practice in daily counting my blessings, counting my blessings. And it really changed my life. Wow. Totally. Because if I had had a horrible, rotten day, I had to sit down at the computer. If someone I love had died that day, I had to sit down at the computer and write because 10 people were going to read it. My mama, my friends.

I mean, no one cared. I just, it was like a personal challenge, but I had to sit down and think. of something that was wonderful. Well. Something that was a blessing in that, that day. And that was where this all, like the show, the everything eventually stemmed. A producer just saw the journal and reached out and asked. They saw that we were renovating our own house and we did it really thriftily because he learned

how to build things. I knew what I wanted, expensive antiques that I couldn't afford. Then I would ask him if he could build it. He would build it. And then I got the look for cheap. And that was really, I think, what drew HGTV. Well, and it's, so we were talking about heartache earlier. And my goal was I was going to get, I was going to be.

You're going to go to law school. You're going to go to law school. I was going to be a politician. I was going to get involved in politics because I wanted to make a difference in the world. And I was, you know, going to. And then at one point, I was like, I think I wanted to do something different. And I was going to be, I was going to get a degree and be a college professor or teach at Jones college, the college that we met at before we transferred. And then, and all of those things I was

failing at and struggling with, which is hard when you're a newlywed and, you know, in a traditional situation where you're like, you know, I'm supposed to be the breadwinner here. I'm the one that's supposed to be, you know, providing. And I was struggling through that. And then through Aaron's blog. He was a youth minister. Yeah, I was a youth minister for 10 years, and I reached a point in that where I knew that it was like God was sort of saying, like, all right, it's time for this to end. This is coming to an end, and don't worry about what's next. And that was the scariest thing. I kind of had a break.

We were in St. Augustine, Florida, and Aaron was painting a bit. She was doing a painting of a building. The journal that day was tricky because it was honestly not a very fun trip. Ben was like having an existential crisis. And trying not to worry my wife, who was prone to worry. He didn't want to talk about it. And she was like, what's wrong? What's going on?

Why are you? What's wrong? And I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. He felt like he didn't know how to connect with young people anymore who were living more and more of their lives digitally. They had a whole world happening in social media that was outside the world in real life where he was trying to minister to them. And it felt.

And I didn't know how to cross that bridge. And it felt very, there were some other things. The other thing is your brother, your brother was graduating from high school. And he was your link to the people that age. Yeah, he was 10 years younger than me. He was going to be graduating from high school. And that was my connection, my connective tissue up to that point. And then also there were some other things that had happened with some people in our church that was making it feel like,

golly, this feels very obvious that God is saying, you need to stop and let go of this. A friend of mine who's done my business partner, Josh Nowell, was like, I don't understand what the fear is because it seems pretty obvious what God's telling you to do. Aaron needs help running her business. You already know how to do it all. And you like building furniture, do that on the side. And it was this moment of like, oh, okay, that's great. And so I've gone through all this heartache, and then in the end, everything was okay.

And we were fighting, trying to hold on to this thing that I had been doing for so long. And that felt like the right, like to walk away from professional ministry, that feels like, who, you are walking away. The night he wrote the letter to our pastor, his resignation letter, he typed it, and he put it in an envelope. And he called our pastor and said, I want to. I want to have coffee in the morning. I want to have breakfast with you in the morning. He was like, oh, no. I know what this is.

And then we went to bed and Ben was asleep and I was scrolling social media and in my DMs was a message from the producer at HGTV who was just reaching out to ask if we had ever thought about doing TV. Whoa. That night. The night that you read. That night. Which didn't feel like.

It didn't feel like anything that would actually happen. It only felt like... You're going to be a... God saying something is out here. Everything's going to be all right. Something is out here. Whoa, that is actually crazy. That's so real, though.

I'm so glad you shared, like, the grittiness of walking through that because the reality is, like, so many people right now who listen to this podcast because primarily from age 20 to 35 are our listeners. So is people trying to figure out what they're going to do in life, what's the next? what's the next step. And so to hear you say, like, no, there was a time I was thinking about law school and politician and this and that. And then I'm in youth ministry. And then that felt really like the clear direction. And then 10 years go by. And it's like when you're confident in something for 10 years and all of a sudden you feel a shift, it is really hard to wrestle with

that, especially like you mentioned in ministry because then you have the question of like, it's like you're not walking away from the Lord, but you're walking away from ministry. And so that can sometimes feel. Is this? my turning my back on my faith in this moment is this you know this is and my dad's a preacher and so it was like this is a is what you thought you'd do yeah this is huge and terrifying yeah but the greatest advice that i can even offer is that every plan we ever made every plan we ever had did not happen yeah none of it happened i was going to be a magazine design editor was my dream i thought I would live in Birmingham and I would design magazines for Southern Living, Southern Living, or Coastal Living, Coddage Living, any of the living.

All the living. It was going to be all the living. We were going to be living. I wanted to design magazines about beautiful houses. I could just instead design the beautiful house. I didn't think of that. And then, you know, like, we, I was scared to ever have kids. And then we had Helen and it was the greatest thing that ever happened. And it's like every single thing that, we were thought was the right thing and what we wanted to do, God had a thousand times better idea and plan. That is so great. There's, um, okay, there's a book. Streams in the desert. Do you know this one?

I've heard of this. I've not read it. The greatest collection of devotionals in history. I'll fight anybody. I will fight somebody. It's the greatest. I love it. It's an old one, very, very old.

But it's daily devotionals. And the one that really relates to what we're talking about here is it said, mind the checks. God sends quiet, little, little whispers, little zaps throughout your life. And if you're not asking for them and you're not paying attention to them, you'll miss them. That's so true. But if you follow them, even if it feels crazy and scary, that's really the direction he's trying to. to guide you. That's great.

I love that. You know that feeling whenever you realize your bed might be kind of gross? Like, we think it's clean and there's sweat, dead skin, and bacteria just chill in there. Yeah, such an ick, and that's why I made the switch to Miracle Made Sheets. They're infused with silver, which means they prevent up to 99.7% of bacteria growth that keeps some cleaner, fresher, and smelling so much better in between washes. And a bonus, it's actually better for your skin. Because less bacteria on your sheets means fewer cloud pores and breakouts.

Plus, blocking out that bacteria means miracle sheets stay fresh and cleaned up to three times longer than other sheets, leaving you with less laundry and more me time. Yes, please. But these just aren't clean sheets. They are cozy, breathable, and feel luxurious without that bougie price tag. Plus, the NASA-inspired fabrics help regulate your body temp, so no more waking up in a puddle of sweat or shivering under a mountain of blankets. It's like your bed finally got its life together.

Y'all are going to love these sheets if you've never tried them. They are such a game changer when Christian and I first tried them years ago, we were sold and have been on it ever since. So upgrade your sleep as the weather cools down. Go to try miracle.com slash woe to try miracle made sheets today. And whether you're buying them for yourself or as a gift for a loved one you can order today and save over 40% off. And if you use my promo code Woe at checkout, you'll get a free three-piece towel set and save

an extra 20%. Miracle is so confident in their product it's backed with a 30-day money-back guarantee, so if you aren't 100% satisfied, you can get a full refund. Upgrade your sleep with Miracle made. Go to trymiracle.com slash woe and use the code woe to claim your free three-piece style set and save over 40% off. Again, that's try miracle.com slash woe to treat yourself. Thanks for sharing that. I was thinking about this verse I just read as I've been on my psalms journey in psalm 16 and it says i bless the lord who gives me counsel in the night also my heart instructs me shows like that that kind of reminds me those checks it's like you you kind of feel in

your heart like the instruction of the lord but sometimes you don't listen to it because it feels like crazy or scary or intimidating but then it goes on to say i've always set the lord before me because he is my right hand i will not be shaken therefore my heart is glad and my whole being rejoices my flesh dwells secure what a promise then it says you make known to me the path of life in your presence there is fullness of joy at your right hand our pleasures forevermore and that has been like so speaking to me because this has been a year in my life that has felt like whoa everything's crazy and changing but when I look back at last year there were a lot of checks that led me to make decisions I made last year to really prepare me for this year I just still didn't

see it coming you know like of course I didn't how could you see the full picture. And so we like geared up to start filming our new show, which felt so crazy. And a lot of prayer was involved with that. And our whole life was just kind of being restructured. Because as you all know, filming a TV show is busy and a lot of work. And so we finally felt like, okay, we're ready for it. Well, after the very first day of filming the new show, the next day, I found out I was pregnant. And it was a total shock. And it was like a great surprise But to be honest with you, I was like so overwhelmed because everything that I had, no, everything I had spent time like preparing my heart for for what I thought this season was going to look like just felt like it went out the window because I was like now I'm pregnant. So in nine months, we were having this baby and then I will be on maternity leave and then this and that.

And then I'm going to be pregnant the whole time we're filming. And it was just like everything I thought got kind of shaken. And I would be honest, like the first week, and I felt so bad for this because it wasn't about the baby. I was so happy about the baby. I was just so nervous about my life changing, you know. It looked different. Yes, I was so just nervous.

And every time I thought about the future, I just get nervous. And it's so cool because now about to step into my third trimester, I have been so thankful for the timing of this baby. And I truly mean that it could make me cry because I'm like, God, you knew so much better than I did. It has kept me so grounded almost in this season of life feeling so crazy and the show and the speaking and the butt and everything. And I'm like, but I have a baby in me. Like I have life forming in me. And it's sort of like the like all this stuff doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Yes. It's like this is just. He's telling you you got to slow down. Yes. And it's it's

slowed me down. It's kept me so true to where I'm at. And it's the most real thing about. my life. Like, it's just so beautiful the timing. I'm so excited for August now. I'm so excited for all the things that are going to change and happen. And so to the point of like, yes, like the Lord, everything you have planned, it doesn't ever happen the way that you planned there or the way that you thought it. And I think what I've learned now, because I'm like you, Aaron, I was always an anxious kid. I love to be prepared. My worst nightmare would be walk. I literally have nightmares. This is a reoccurring nightmare of mine that I get on stage and I forgot to prepare something to say like I actually have that reoccurring nightmare so I hate not feeling prepared but what I've

learned is like okay what does it look like to not be prepared for a moment but my heart to be prepared for it and like keeping my heart ready keeping my heart in a good posture and that looks like a daily surrender to the Lord so that your soul your flesh is secure it doesn't matter what tomorrow looks like because my flesh is secure and trusting in what the Lord's going to do and so I love that y'all shared that and the grittiness of that. And it's just so cool that that night the Lord gave that. And it's normally right after you take the leap of faith. Like it doesn't happen before. It's after you write the letter. And then you're like fully ready that the Lord goes, okay, now I'll show you what's next. But I love how you said you didn't think anything of it necessarily.

When was it from the time you got the DM to you were like, whoa, we're doing a TV show. And what did that look like for y'all? It was six months later when we filmed the pilot. And they told us it probably, you know, it may air and it may not air. Because we, I mean, I don't know how much you remember from the beginning of Duck Dynasty, but we didn't know, like, anything about TV. And then, so in our mind, like, we filmed this pilot, and we knew that it, like, they invested so much money in making that one episode that, so we're thinking, like, this is going to end up.

Sorry, a train's coming right. Hello, trade. it's very loud so you know in our minds like it would be silly to invest that kind of money and not put it on TV

and they're like oh no they film pilots and then throw it in the trash all the time so so we had no expectations we did it for fun and there was another year

whether it airs or not we all just like send us a copy of it so you know we have it it was a year after we filmed it that it was actually on TV it was six months it was January

Yeah, but we wrapped them and then... We just found in July, 2015. It premiered January 2016. And it was the most watched pilot in HGTV history because there was a snowstorm on the East Coast and everybody sat at home and watched TV that day. That is so cool. Oh, my gosh. That's crazy.

It was. So then they ordered season one. And we still are like, nothing is guaranteed. Yeah. And it's the number one show on the network. But we're still like, I fully expect to not be renewed every single time. Yeah. Which is a tribute to our production company is good at managing expectations.

Good at managing expectations. They were like from the beginning. They're like, this could be ever tomorrow. So have fun with it. And we're like, okay, sounds good. And, you know, now where, and it's different. Once you have kids, it changes. None of that matters.

And, uh, it's so true. you, it's like, you know, hey, we're going to be, we're not going to do that because it's May Day. Yeah, or yeah, it's Field Day. We can't. This was something I was talking, okay, at Field Day, every single parent was on the field, like watching the kids. When I was growing up, I don't think parents came to Field Day. And we were having this conversation, like, I think this is a millennial thing. Like, our parents were working when we had stuff like this.

They'd be like, have fun at Field Day. see you at home tonight but we're like there for it and i don't care i don't care if it i just don't care yeah i'm going to be at field day i can't work i'm sorry i love that that's my priorities into perspective more yeah for sure they're going to be little for such a short time yeah you know how fast it's going but also it's like it's for all like we are you know in a very blessed financially career right now. But, you know, my brothers and all, like, they're the same way. It's like, no, I'm not working.

This is happening that day for my daughter. So I'm going to be there. And so it's across the board for us. Yeah. That's awesome. So now y'all are doing a spinoff show as well. So how many years have y'all been in this? Hometown Takeover.

We've done three seasons. We filmed that last year. It just finished airing. Hometown, we've been filming since 2016. Wow. 2015. This is when we filmed the pilot. Yeah, the pilot was in 2015.

So 10 years. That's been incredible. So none of that was a part of y'all is a vision board when y'all got married. You didn't think y'all were going to be there. What kind of things do you guys as a couple like dream about now? What do you like dream about for the future? What do you love doing? What makes you feel like, man, this is what we thrive in?

We have dreams, but of course, it probably won't happen the way we want it. But I have a dream of homeschooling the girls grades 5 through 9. When they're going through the worst, most awkward part of being a teenager, I want to be with them more. I had a hard time around that age. And I just want to be there for it in a way that my parents couldn't be. And it was just weird then. Home school was a weird thing. But now it feels like a really.

amazing way to get more time as a family. I mean, we just like being, we like being at home with the girls. We have a beautiful garden that we've built. We're several years away from the fifth grade homeschool dream, but it's one day. If you start now, though, you do kind of have to start thinking about those things now. Because again, even if those things, some of those things are like checks. It's like an idea is like a check. Like, huh, maybe that is what my life could look like.

And if I wanted to like that at fifth grade, then I need to start doing stuff now to, like, prepare for me to be able to step out of this and into that, you know? We got to think about those things. You do. I think it's really cool. You shared on the podcast last time. But again, this is a new audience, more people, different ears to hear. Can you share a little bit about just those middle school days and what you are wanting to be intentional about with your girls and why? Because I think it's so important.

A lot of people, a lot of moms and daughters listen to this podcast. together. And I just feel like that would really encourage them out there. My mom was my very best friend. I got bullied in elementary school. I was a weird kid. I love dinosaurs. Most of the girls did not love dinosaurs. You were obsessed with the mascot. I was obsessed with my high school's mascot when I, like, where my brother went to high school. When I was little in elementary school, I was like obsessed with the mascot. And they're like, that's kind of weird. Um, so I see so much at Helen, our oldest is just like a carbon copy of me. I know every struggle she's dealing with right now.

I know exactly how she feels. And I know exactly how gross and difficult middle school was then. But now with the like phone, social media culture, culture, I can't imagine how much harder. Right. And that's why we started Osprey with other friends of ours who just, if we all work together, collective action works. So none of our kids, in our big friend group, none of our kids have phones. And the oldest are now turning 12, and they just got watches that can call and text. And that's cool.

That's on that note where we're like when we were growing up, we had landlines and you could call your best friend. And at school, there was a, there was a phone. You could go and you could call home. So we got a landline at our house. Our girls are welcome to you. That's cool. It is cool to, like, hear the phone ring. And it's when we got our Wi-Fi set up, our tech guy was like, technically you have a landline phone, but I'm not going to hook it up.

And I was like, no, no, no, go ahead, look it up. I'm interested in that. That's awesome. Yeah. And also, when I got to middle school, is when I picked up a guitar and I started taking lessons and that learning to play an instrument when none of, my peers did gave me otherworldly confidence. And that's something I really want for my girls to find the thing that's theirs, that they can own, their skill, that they really, really love,

and that makes them have confidence. Yeah, that's great. I think that'll help so much getting through those awkward years. I love that. Well, just having your mom. She's only seven. We have so much time. She's not going to be.

How old were you when Doug Dynasty started? I was 14 when we filmed our pilot episode. So a little bit older, Bella was 9. So she was around that. But yeah, 14, it was a weird time. So our filming, our first show, was from whenever I was in eighth grade until I was a senior in high school. So it was my whole high school.

Yeah, girl, tell me about it. I was like, that was rough. I see you. I mean, obviously. You would get to see it and feel so self-gone. Oh, gosh. I was like so insecure in so many ways. And it's actually something I'm really excited about with filming a new show. I'm like, I'm so excited to film a new show and being where I'm at in life now. Like just being confident in the Lord, my relationships, knowing who I am. And yeah, now like my daughters are so young that this is their reality too. Like how do I, you know, raise them in that? And I think sometimes at first I was like afraid of that. And then I was like afraid of that. And then I was. I was like, man, but I was the kid that my mom trusted God enough to step into TV knowing that it was going to affect her children in certain ways. But like the blessings so far outweighs, the hard things of that, you know, and the opportunity that comes with all of it. And I also have perspective now that I can help teach and help walk them through that I didn't have the first time around.

That's what I love what you said about your daughter. You're like, I know everything she's going through it now. Like I've felt it. And I think as a mom, we have this tendency to want to try to be perfect and everything. I want to have it all figure out. It's like, no, man, some of the most powerful moments with your kids are whenever you're honest about how you didn't, you know, like that you can empathize with their payment. You can empathize with how they're feeling. And right now we're having that on a three-year-old level.

One day we'll have that on a 13-year-old level. I mean, I told Honey recently we had a big conversation and had made her have the conversation. She does not want to have serious talk, but we were having a serious talk. And I held her a little body down until she let me have the serious talk. And then later, we're laying in bed. And I said, honey, I just want to say, thank you so much for having that hard talk. Because I know when you don't want to have a hard conversation, it can be hard to sit there and listen. I'm really proud of you that you did.

And she said, yeah, mom, sometimes whenever I have those talks, I just want to run to my room and slam the door and cry. I said, I know. Well, guess what? Yeah, that doesn't change. We all feel that way. I know, I'm like, we all feel that way, honey. I want to do that too sometimes, but we don't because it's so much better now that we had that conversation, you know.

And so anyways, empathizing with that and going, yep, true, fill that, been there, done that, all the things. Like, that's what helps guide them through those things. Helen's going through a hard time at school right now because there will be kids on the playground playing again. game and she'll want to join in but she doesn't know how to just put herself into it and what if they say no we don't want you to play with us and the thought of the possible rejection is too much to even ask and so if no one invites her she believes they just don't like me and I'm thinking

everybody's just little Helen and they're not thinking about that so true it's so hard as a mom It's so hard. And then when you're a grown-up, you can still feel those same feelings. Her little sister is me. She's the extrovert. Helen's the introvert. May is the extrovert. And I never struggled with just inserting myself into whatever everyone else or whatever was happening that I want to, hey, what's going on over here?

I want to be a part of this. And May is, she is that. And I have taught Helen. like we were going to a thing recently and she was terrified she was like what there's going to be so many kids and they're older than me and they're all friends and they're going to leave me out and then i don't know then what if there's someone i don't know and i was like well you just walk up to them and say hey what's your name and she was like i can't do that and i said well you have an ace up your sleeve because your little sister is going to do it anyway so you just say may go over there and introduce yourselves of them and then introduce me to them and they do that and when they're together like that's how it is May is the Icebreaker. Helen walks up to May and she goes,

and then May turns and looks at who she's talking about and walks up and says, Hi, my name's May. This is my sister Helen. That's so cute. And then they're in. But she doesn't have her at school. That's so cute, though. I mean, two are better than one, right?

And I think to the point of seeing how y'all's relationship has been, I mean, I know, Aaron, you were never talking to Ben. Ben was ever talking to Aaron. It's so cute, though. But then y'all are the perfect couple together. y'all differences complement each other so well. And that's why it's like such a dynamic duo that America has fallen in love with. I don't believe it was just because of the snow day that it's hit the top watch of all HV, HGTV.

Why is it so hard for me to say HGTV shows? It's because of who y'all are and people are so attracted to the people that you are, the joy that you share, the not only the gifting that you have, but the way you use and steward it. It's beautiful. And so to see your girls in that same light is such a, such a cool thing. And I'm super grateful for the influence that you'll have in the world right now and we'll continue to have. And if that looks like stepping away and be with your girls for a time, I'm excited for you and that, because what a gift that will be. But thank you all so much for sharing so much advice on the podcast and sharing your story. I know people are going to be so encouraged. And you guys are truly a joy to know. So thank you all so much. Yeah.

Thank you, Sadie. But before we go, on the, like, people in their 20s and 30s who don't know what to do with their life. Go to trade school or go to, like, if you are trying to figure it out, every plumber, every electrician, every carpenter, everybody on all of our crews are like, we can't find anybody to work. And, like, one of our carpenters was a chef at a restaurant and the restaurant closed and he didn't know what he was going to do. And he came and he had never done any sort of construction work whatsoever. And he got a job and it pays really well. And he's doing really, like he's figuring it out. And if he wants to go back to a restaurant, he can.

He can still do that. And that's, I don't know, it's an interesting time in world history or in American history right now where even if you can't figure it out, there is a way that you can do something until you figure it out. You know, that's very true. I sat with two moms last week who have a college age or going into college kids, and they both talked about how hard it is because both of their sons want to kind of just go to trade school, but they feel that intimidation of their friends around them because they're going to colleges. And the moms are like, why do we feel that? The social pressure. Yeah, the social pressure. We've got to change that.

Yes, because the mom was like, I don't want to feel that. Like, I don't want him to feel that. It doesn't matter. Because it doesn't matter, but that's such a real thing. I'll tell you a quick anecdote that's not very useful, maybe, but our one of the plumbers that we work with. He's a very cool guy. His parents are like the business professional types.

His brother's a banker. Yeah. And he went against the grain and took up the family, his grandfather's plumbing business. And he's cool, man. He's cool. He's got a golden retriever. His wife's a good at a go to a group. His wife's a beautiful.

graduate professional woman, like, you can change, you can change the stereotype completely. It's so true. And we need to because the world is big enough for all of the giftings God gave every single person. And it's so cool when we go against the grade and actually follow what God's put in our heart, the plan he actually has. So much bigger than the box that we put them in sometimes in the way that we just do society. And so I love that. That's great advice. y'all are awesome this was so good