WHOA That's Good Podcast - How Millennial & Gen Z Christians Can Live the Way We're Called To | Sadie Rob Huff & David Platt

Episode Date: March 9, 2022

Pastor and author David Platt joins Sadie to show us how we can be the light of the world during a dark time. They discuss the best conversation you could ever possibly have, how to live for eternity when everyone is so focused on the here and now, and how to make sure we're not living a self-centered Christianity. David also shares the frightening experience of being successful in the American church when he wasn't truly walking with God. We will always find ourselves stagnating until we commit to serve the world and share, show, and teach the Word. Be the light to someone this week, friends! Check out David's Secret Church livestream event at https://SecretChurch.org. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, whoa, that's good fam. Welcome back to the Whoa, that's good. Hi, Cass, y'all. We have a special guest on today who y'all probably already know. If you were at passion, you definitely know him. But if you don't, you want to listen to this whole conversation because he is a very interesting person on a mission as we all are to preach to gospel to all the nations and I just love his ministry and all that he does. So I'm so excited to welcome David Platt to the podcast. It's good to be here. Welcome David.

Yeah. So glad that you're here. This is, you know, we've been trying to get you on the podcast for a while. So I'm glad it finally worked out. Yes. Yes. A lot of different obstacles right? Yeah. Here and there, but yes. In God's timing, here we are. Amen. I believe that. In God's timing, that's awesome. Well, I have to ask you the question I ask everyone that comes on the world that's good podcast first. And the question is

a loaded one. It's what is the best piece of advice that you've ever been given? one. It's one is the best piece of advice that you've ever been given. That's such, like, the best. I would say three words, so I'm going to put it all in one piece of advice, but three words that I just constantly come back to that people told me, it's a kind of conglomeration of the advice, like abide, surrender, abide and rest. That if we do those things in our lives, if we're like totally surrendered to God who created us and knows what's best for us, dying to ourselves, trusting in him, abiding in him,

and just focus on him, his word, walking with him, and all the ways we know to do that, according to his word, then we can rest. He's going to lead us and guide us and direct us. Like if we are surrendered abiding, then we can rest. God wants his will, his good will for our lives to happen more than any one of us does. And he will make it happen if we're surrendered to him and abiding in him. Wow, that's so good. That's a definite, whoa, that's good moment. Because I literally put my pen out and started writing it down, surrender, abide, and rest.

That's so good, it's simple, but it's so true. I love how whenever you teach, you're very much like, here's my three words, or here's my three points, or I'm gonna give you nine things or five things. And I'm like, I need to be like that. I'm just not, I am not organizing anything in my life enough to be like, here are the four things, you know? But one day I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna shout you out for that.

Well, I wanna hear a little bit about, really just your story because I know so much about what you do and what mission you're on now and your family now. Maybe some people don't and we we're going to get to that. But what was your upbringing like? Like what do you feel like were some of the influences that may ad you who you are today? Because you really are such an interesting person and do so many things and you know I look at someone like you and I'm like where did you come from?

What was your life story like and so tell us a little bit about who you were before maybe a lot of people knew you. Yes. Well, a lot of grace is where I come from. Like I, and yeah, we'll jump into more later, but I would just kind of preview some of the things that I'm most passionate about, getting the gospel to billions of people who have never heard it. Like I was born into a home where I've heard the good news of God's love in Jesus. Like ever since the day I was born, and I just born out the obvious, like I had nothing to do with where I was born.

That's purely the grace of God. Why was I not born into a place in the world where, where they've never heard the gospel. Like that's the pure mercy of God and a mysterious mercy that I can't explain. But that leads into part of what is deep on my heart to do with my life. But so I was born into a context where I've heard the gospel

to a mom and a dad. And I would say my story is really summarized in many ways by about a handful of guys like five or so guys who have had an indelible impact on my life. Like started with my dad and then a few other men along the way who just invested in me, like taught me to follow Jesus. One of those guys encouraged me to, he sees the first guy to give me an opportunity to preach a sermon when I was in eighth grade, and I should not have been preaching a sermon when I was in eighth grade city. And I could, I could have picked, so it was like for a youth service, it was like 100 or a couple hundred other students, and I could have picked any passage in the Bible, and I picked Revelation 3, which I talked about,

like layout of Sia, church spewing, God spewing them out of His mouth. And so I got up, and before I said anything, I walked into the Bible, and I took a bottle of water with me, and I sifted it, and then I spitted out in the front row, and I was like, that's what God thinks of you if you're lukewarm. And so anyway, that's kind of how it all started for me.

But so thankfully I had a guy in my life there at that moment like, okay, that's one way to start a sermon or maybe there's other ways. And so anyway. So in your eighth grade mind, did you like see that somewhere or did you come up with that and you're like, oh, that's good.

Oh, I came up with like, I'm sitting there. I had like I studied for hours for that sermon. I was like, how how could I illustrate this? It's like maybe I could spit water on the front row. So yeah. So anyway, so that's just one picture of the whole point was like a guy who gave me that opportunity and really encouraged me and Life and fallen Jesus and what it means to study the word memorize and and to be on mission like so just a few different men Who I who've made me who I am and did disciple making in my life would you just as commanded this all to do they did this for me? and so so yeah, I mean growing growing up, I was probably, I was, I think I was

pretty socially awkward. But yeah, I would say very socially awkward. I'm thankful that God provided a girl in my life who was somehow attracted to my social awkwardness in my life. And so we met. She was like super cool and I was super not. But by God's grace, again, like she starts getting to know me and I'm afraid to talk to girls. And I was like a senior in high school at this point. So that kind of gives you a little glimpse into my social awkwardness. So we start dating. Actually, I was a senior in high school at this point. So that kind of gives you a little glimpse into my social awkwardness.

But so we started dating. Actually, I was a junior in high school. She was a senior and then we ended up going to university with George's together and got married right after that and then went to New Orleans to study school, do more graduate school when while she was teaching. and then so I don't know I'm starting to give my life story. I don't know if this is helpful or not and then God provided all it is so I love it. It's so helpful. I love it And it does give a window into you know how you are who you are

But also it also shows that you've always been who you are, You know, and we talk about that a lot, that we're all created originally, and who we've originally created to be, God kind of weaves together all through our life, and we don't really see, you know, it at the time, but then when we look back and we're like, wow, always been like this, you know, like when you look back at eighth grade and you're like, you know, you spit the water out and that's really funny. But you do still preach with an intensity that not many people do, you know. And I think that that's really cool. Whenever I was, you know, young, I remember my first sermon, if you will, it was really

just at this leadership training for Christy Vitt. And it was like, we had our speech moment. And I preached on, you are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden and Literally just wrote a book around this whole idea of the light of the world Still I'm talking about it still preaching the same thing and so I do feel like there are some things that God puts like a message on your heart or Even just the type of personality you have and you grow in that and you mature in that, and yeah, people come along and disciple you and Jane knew to be better at that,

and gosh, God worked so much in you and the grace of that, but there was something that was always there, and I think that that is really, really cool to hear. I was just reading Esther and my Bible reading, and yeah, like all the details in that story that God's doing, and even the hard things, right? Even the things that don't make sense, and you don't understand why,

but that God is just weaving this story together. Like we know, Romans 8.28 says for our good when we're trusting in Him, like anyway, it's a pretty powerful picture, yes, to think about that in every one of our lives. It's so powerful. I was actually just pre-tusterman on David's life being like that because David, you know, like leading

up to his life like the moment of Goliath, like everyone just kind of talks about that moment, but when you back it up, he was so prepared for that moment because of all the things that God had let him to do. And then when you say like, wow, he was king, how was he king whenever he was a shepherd, but like at one point he was playing music in the palace. So he had to see, saw, and understand what that looks like and just God had truly prepared him the whole way. And I think so many times we step into something

and we feel like, oh, we're so not equipped for this, we're so not ready for this. Because it might seem like a crazy thing or might seem like a big step. But when you look back, you're like actually, like I think God's been preparing me for this my whole life, you know? That's good. think God's been preparing me for this my whole life, you know? That's good.

And it's really cool to see. So yeah, I encourage everyone to look at their story and kind of just retell your story because I think you'll run into things like, wow, that's crazy, that's exactly like me now or that was something that prepared me for where I'm at now and it's just cool. I love how you mentioned discipleship already, which you talk about discipleship a lot.

And you wrote about one time, I think it was in Radical or maybe I've just heard you say it. You said that maybe we're a little bit confused on what discipleship is or what it means to make disciples in. I love how you put it in a more understandable way. Can you help you understand what that actually looks like? That is something we're all called to. How do we begin to do that? Just like every day lives. People are saying this podcast. Discipleship is not on their mind, but it should be. What does that look like?

That's good. This should be all be on the same page Everybody's a father of Jesus on this one because like this is the clear commanding gave to us right before he left and For you sin in heaven and so there should not be ambiguity among us about what it means to make disciples and this should be like driving All of us. So yeah, it's really interesting. So the way I often put, so what does it mean to make disciples? And you look, I mean, it's based on,

obviously Matthew 28, 19 to 20, when Jesus says, go, go there for a make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything. I've commanded you. So you've got one command actually there, make disciples

that surround by three words, going and teaching and baptizing. And you do that in all nations. And so here it is. So put that four pieces, those four pieces together. So going baptizing teaching, doing that in all nations. So the way I try to remember it is share the word, show the word, teach the word, and serve the world. So, and it's really interesting. I was having a conversation just yesterday with a guy that I was speaking at a conference and ran into a guy from India. He's doing awesome work in India, and he comes up to me, he's like, I've got, he's like, I've got all these sermons you preached on my phone or whatever, and he's like, from the very beginning, I've been sharing the word,

showing the word, teaching the word, and serving the world. Like, he just repeated it back. And, but it's not just like my words, I hope, it reflects what Jesus words are saying, that we share the word, like we lead people to Jesus, to life in Jesus, and then we show people how to follow Jesus. We demonstrate that in our lives. This happens life on life. And what those men did in my life, they didn't just tell me things, like they showed me what it looks like to be a

husband, a dad, just a man who's following Jesus. So share the word, show the word, teach the word. So yes, and we've got to pass on. And then this is not just teaching like, even like you and I've been talking about, like in front of a group of people, but in a Deuteronomy four and six kind of way, just in the context of our everyday conversations, like the word just flowing from us, what we learned from the word, what I learned from reading Job and second Corinthians this morning that that would flow out of me today. It's not just to to the stop stop of me, it's to tend to spread through me. So that's true for all of us, just words saturated. We're teaching others to follow. And we do this among all the nations. So we do this right where we live with a goal of seeing disciples made among every ethnic group

in the world. So that's the side of me. Share the word, show the word, tease the word, serve the world. I love that. That's so good. I love how you put that. And you brought up something that I was going to ask you about a quote that I have from you. It says, when we realize we have the responsibility that we have to teach the word, it changes everything about how we hear the word.

And I'm like, that is so good because honestly, and I don't even know that this is necessarily a good thing, but that actually was a big motivator for me back whenever my family kind of got a platform. And I was like, man, like, people are listening to what I'm saying. And so if people are listening to what I'm saying, then I really hope I'm saying something good.

And then I was like, you know, really started to think about that. And so I took some time off of social media. I was like three months. And I was just like, I just need to read the word like I have to read the word because I read this verse about how you know I can't remember exactly where it is I know it's like improvurs and then it's a getting the new testament but it talks about how from the heart like so the mouse will speak like everything in your heart is what is gonna come out and I was like felt very convicted like

oh gosh like I need to make sure my heart is pure. I want to know like what's going in, so I can be confident in what's going to come out, because I knew like, I was about to start speaking. I was about to start really having a platform. And so I took three months to really, really study the word. And I still study the word, but those three months were just like building a foundation.

And it was kind of that idea that, oh gosh, like, I'm about to teach the word, so I need to make sure I'm really hearing the word. I'm only making sure I'm really understanding. And when I heard you say that, I was like man, like that just puts it in a practical way for everybody and in a challenge to everybody because I think so many people even listen to this podcast just because they want to get filled. But they're not thinking what can I receive that I can go out and teach?

And so what do you think is like maybe a challenge to us as people to not just be people who are consumers in the church, but actually people who are actually going out and teaching, even if it's not their job to do ministry, you know? Yes, yes, yes. I love, there's so much what you're saying there. So yeah, I would, I would say we all need to ask, are we receivers, the way I put it, are we receivers or we reproducers?

Meaning, are we just soaking in and in the process, living a pretty self-centered Christianity? Like where it's just all about what can I get? Even when our, in our Bible reading, like just alone, like, okay, what can I get? Like, yes, we want to grow in Christ, we want just alone like okay, what can I get like yes We want to grow in Christ. We want to know God more But it's not just for us and we're listening on a Sunday and a local church or or podcasts like this like how can what?

I am receiving from God by his grace not stop with me It's right the sound can reproduce that the picture I always give is like Imagine being in a hut in the middle of southern Sudan. So this was years ago and this picture is still ingrained in my mind. And I'm like walking to the word with these brothers and sisters. And the whole time I'm talking with them, I hardly ever see their faces. And it's not because they're like sleeping or doesn't know. It's because they're riding down like every single thing I say. And they're, and they come to me afterwards and they say, we believe we have a responsibility to take everything.

We've learned from the word translated into our tribes languages and teach it in our tribes. Like they're not living just for themselves. They're living for the sake of others. And which leads to the other thing, I love about what you're saying, because here you are at that point in your life, you're like, okay, I'm influencing others.

I wanna make sure that I'm influencing them in good ways. Well, the reality is, yeah, it may not all be on the level of a Sadie podcast, but all of us are influencing others every day. And so how are we gonna influence them? And this is where I really believe God has designed to cycle making not just to help others grow in Jesus, but actually to help us

grow in Jesus. Once you realize, wow, I'm influencing others. You had to go to new depths and new heights in your knowledge of the word and your understanding the word. And it was that responsibility to lead others that actually took you to new heights and and depths in your relationship with God in the same way I I would say we're all gonna Stagnate every Christian will stagnate in our relationship with God if it's just about us But when others are dependent on seeing Jesus in us and learning from us what God is saying in his word Then we have to actually show Jesus and we have to know what his word says and God's designed

He's got the whole thing rigged. He's designed disciple making for others to grow in Jesus and for us to grow in Jesus. And we will miss out. We will be stagnant, Christians with a ceiling over our heads spiritually, until we're committed to helping others. Yeah, until we're committed to sharing the word

and showing the word to others and teaching the word to others. That's so good. Come on. I hope everyone was listening with the volume all the way up to what he just said And if you didn't then rewind and listen to it one more time because that was so good You know you talk about reaching people who don't know Jesus and like even in my mind and I've been to places where people don't know Jesus, and so I've been able to see it and kind of understand what that looks like, and I'm really grateful that I've been able to go to those places and hopefully make an impact and the best way that I can

by spreading the good news, right? But I feel like even with the small thing that I've seen, like to imagine someone never hearing the name of Jesus, it's so hard for so many of us to picture and imagine because for us it's like, we're constantly preaching, we're sharing, we're doing our things to people who have known about Jesus' whole life and trying to get like a light bulb to click of like, do you not see how good this is, you see the truth.

But you said it at Passion and it hit me for the first time. Like when you said the name Jesus to someone and they say, who, you know, and I was thinking about that in the context of even this week, I was, okay, so have you ever heard of crumble cookies? We love crumble cookies. Yes. Okay. So, so I had never heard of crumble cookies until this week, which I feel like

I was just missing something major in my life. But it was just so funny because somebody says to crumble cookies, I'm like, what? And then they're like, you don't know what crumble cookies are. And I'm like, no. And so then I asked someone else, I was like, do you know what crumble cookies are? And they're like, yes, how do you not know

what crumble cookies are? And I was like, it just don't know, you know? And I was like, man, like that's, you know, in a way bigger, bigger, way more detrimental way. People around the world who, what we feel like is so obvious, everybody knows, it's so great. How could you not know? They've literally never heard of it.

They've never heard the name. So what is that experience been like for you, introducing people literally for the first time? And what is the response from that person been maybe different than people that you see in America or people who have heard Jesus their whole life? Like, do you see a different response to the gospel when people hear those words for the first time

in other places? Is it different? Yeah, wow. You know, it's interesting. When I think about that question, one, you were talking about crumble cookies like my mind immediately went to illustration, actually, used recently. And I think I may have included in radical, but a friend of mine who when God opened his eyes to the reality of unreached people was when he was in a remote part of the world. And he was asking

this people in this remote village, like, where does the rain come from? Where do you believe the rain comes from? Or who created you? What happens when you die? And their response was, nobody's told us about that yet. And then he goes and sits in one of their homes and they bring him something, a drink, and they bring him something to drink and they bring him a coke bottle and it hits him that like a bottling company in Atlanta, Georgia has done a better job of getting brown sugar water to the ends of the earth than we have with the greatest news in the world and that's where his life just turned to that point. So anyway, I was thinking about so I mean they know about coke or that but but they don't know about Jesus or or I would add even to use maybe the crumble kick analogy a little bit more.

They either don't know his name or or they know about him about as much as we might know like about Confucius or something like I think he taught some philosophy. I don't know or they may have if you use the crumble cookie and halgie they when they hear that they may actually think of something really disgusting and And they have in their mind a picture of Jesus that is just not true So that's what we're talking about when we talk about unreached people in the world people who've either never heard his name or never heard the truth about who he is and so now To back to what you're saying like are so how do I see them responding? It's so, it's exciting and sobering at the same time because you realize you are especially with somebody who's never even heard his name.

You're introducing someone for the first time to who Jesus is. And there's not this other picture that's been painted that's false. Like it's here's who he is, which is awesome. And at the same time, it's really challenging because the reality is in those places for hundreds and not thousands of years, there's been an adversary who's been blinding minds and convincing them of all kinds of other things that are not true about God creation, et cetera. And so it's not like it's like a blank slate. Yes, it is when it comes to hearing,

never hearing the name of Jesus, but there's all kinds of ideas that now working through, like if you're talking with a Tibetan Buddhist, like, oh man, that can be a very, very challenging conversation. Oh, of course, many days, weeks, months, years, even. At the same time, this is the beauty of the message we have of, like, this name has power. And this good news has power. And the spirit of God, the spirit of God. You will be my witnesses to the end of the year with the power of my Holy Spirit. So it's not a natural conversation.

You know in that moment, this is a supernatural conversation and this is true wherever we are, but all the more so in the front lines of places where for centuries the adversaries had his way. And so to like, there's no greater joy in that sense, say, even to be the first person to introduce someone to Jesus, I say there's no greater joy. I'd rather not be the first person. I wish there weren't three billion people who have never heard the name of Jesus. And this wasn't something we were stepping into but I mean what what conversation can you imagine having that's more awesome than introducing

somebody to Jesus for the first time yeah there's not a better conversation I can think of ever because I was excited about learning about Crumble Cookie, so I can't imagine the true, just joy and true excitement and love and all the things that you experience in that one moment. So that's really cool. I got to ask you about all things radical, especially the book, because I loved the book radical. If you haven't read radical, you have to go read it right now. Pre-warning, it will change your whole life. Even for a Christian and I who have been Christians for a long time, when we read that book,

we had some serious conversations of like, okay, let's look at our life. And let's look at, are we really living this out? And it was so good. I want to be challenged like that. And I encourage everyone to go be challenged like that. So I just love it. But I want to ask you about the writing process of Radical.

Like, what were your expectations when you wrote that book? And you know, when you were writing it, did you think what was going to happen, was going to happen? And for those who don't know, Radical exploded. So it did very, very well. But when, take me back to that moment you're writing a book that's your first book right yes yeah yeah i i really was just writing out of the overflow of my own personal journey and something that i'd walk through like i we had uh walked through like we had we had we'd stepped into leading this church and Birmingham and a year before we'd lost everything we had in Hurricane

Katrina down in New Orleans and I looked at Heather and I said, we got an opportunity like start over fresh, not that we had accumulated tons of stuff we were just like let, let's live simply and just give generously and sacrificially. So we had this kind of rare opportunity in this culture to totally restart. And a year later, I'm pastoring this large church and I've got more stuff in a bigger house than I'd ever thought. And I had this sinking feel and I was totally missing the point.

And I basically was in a fresh way. I just, I would call it a crisis of belief. I just found myself looking at the Bible saying, okay, if I'm following this Jesus who said these things in my life and this kind of, I mean, in the eyes of the world, like in the church world, I was like living the dream, but I was like, that's, that doesn't seem to be the dream that's outlined for me here.

And so, so I began a process and how did I begin a process of reorganization, some things in our lives, and then led the church through that. And it was awesome just to see the way God started to move and the church and And so the whole point of writing this book like was I wanted to write things down that I was just we were just gonna kind of self-publish it in House so that People who came to the church and the days to come would know why we're doing some things differently and why we're trying to focus on these ways and using our Resources in these ways. So that was the whole idea. So it would be like for members of our church, people who come to the church,

just kind of self-evident, maybe my mom would read it, whatever. So then we, yeah, basically got it in some other hands, and then a publisher picked it up, and so then they published it, and I probably, again, even when they published it, I was like, again even they published that i was like okay people are church economy and my mom read it i probably would read it through a couple more times if i knew like a lot of people were in a read that but

i think i think it really uh... i i don't think i would have wrote in that book was i think why it can't take off was because it resonated with a lot of other people who are thinking and realizing, I don't think most people will look in the Bible, honestly, at Jesus, look up at the church culture around us and think, yeah, this makes sense.

I think most people listen to the words of Jesus, if we honestly look at them and then look up and think, well, this, like, if this is true, if what Jesus said is true, and I'm following him, then a nice, comfortable Christian spin on the American Dream makes no sense. It does it make any sense. And if there's billions of people who have never heard the gospel and I'm in this world, like this, this, this, my life needs to look really really different

the way I prioritize things the way I use my money whatever it might be and so yeah so that was kind of the process through which that that book came about it was just the overflow of what God was doing my own hard personally and in the heart of the church I was faster at that point. So cool I love it I love it so much because I feel like even in today's day, like so many people are trying to promote themselves and so many people are trying to get the message out. And you know, I am all about people writing books and starting podcasts and doing blogs and all that stuff. If it's really out of the overflow of your heart and you really feel like, you know, this is something no matter what, no matter how many people listen

to me, how many people buy it, no matter what publishing come and fix me up, I'm doing it because I'm doing it out of the obedience to my heart. But then there's, normally it's not that, I want to get the following, I want to gain all this stuff. And in that I'm like, man, that's just, if God wants a message to go out, it will go out. And I think about how, when we went to Israel for the first time,

we went to where Jesus preached, like the amount of the attitudes, you know, like where he preached at that. And you know how at the bottom of that hill, if someone's talking, you can hear at the top of the hill because of the way that it shaped. And I thought about that and I was like, man, I've never really thought about how thousands of people would show up to hear Jesus preach. And everyone heard what he was saying in that space because it's literally the way that that is shaped. The actual hill, the actual mountain is shaped in such a way that thousands of people could hear his voice when he spoke those words that were completely countercultured to what was happening and how people were living. And I'm like, I got just begin to reveal to me in that moment that, hey, like if it's a word

I want to get out, then the word will be heard, you know? And I think Radical was a prime example of that. What you were saying was very counter-cultural to how we were living, and I say we as in the American church, right? And it was so the truth of the gospel. And I think people are hungry for that. And I love how you talk about how the gospel is kind of the opposite of the American dream.

And it really is. And we're living in this culture where the American dream is hot, right? It's everyone wants it. We're going after it. And there's also so many Christian millennials and Gen Z and all of my people who are trying to kind of do both. It's like we want to be a Christian, but we also still want the American dream.

We want to be a Christian, but our feelings are a huge priority. We want to be a Christian, but we also want to be comfortable. Speak to that a little bit on how do you live radical as a Christian millennial in America? Well, I would just say, well, one, I love that question, too. It's regardless of where we fall and generationally, this is a battle. What's interesting, I'm thinking about it in a fresh way right now, as we're talking, I wrote that book and then it was super successful and I found myself getting invited to do all sorts of things, all these kind of accolades, not everybody loved the book, there was definitely

criticism, but accolades come my way. And then I started really, like I was writing a book like to fight against the American dream and I was starting to live it more. Like it was like it was and so it's this constant battle I think for all of us. And I would even say like not long after that, I went into a pretty, a very, very unhealthy spiritual place. And like I was getting invited to speak in all these different places, our church was growing, the book was doing great. And I mean, there was a long season in Sadie in my life at that point where my time with the Lord was like non-existent. Like I would not spend time alone. I would study the Bible to preach or pray in

public, but I would not walk with God. That frightens me. How successful I could be in the American church dream and do it totally apart from intimacy with Jesus. It was so now to come back. So this is a fight for all of us, but I really think it comes back to that fundamental call that Jesus puts before all of us. Like if anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and daily, daily, and so all the things that were prone to desire, like the applause of people, comforts of this world, the pleasures and pursuits of this world, possessions of this world, whatever it might be, we are called to deny ours, and a world where, and this is, I think, part of the crux of the American dream, it's like, what can you do? You can achieve anything, just believe in yourself, trust in yourself, promote yourself,

even as you were talking about, and we follow a king who said, slay yourself, like deny yourself, die to yourself. Think of a cross. And this is the Christian life. And so to say, on a daily basis, and it goes back even to that surrender of our best, like on a daily basis, come before him. Lord, I want to follow you for who you are,

not even for who I can create you to be. Like, Jesus is just fine with all my materialism and pursuit of worldly things and tax you on on Sundays. Like we can make Jesus kind of into our own image instead of allowing him to conform us into his image. And so to daily come before him in that way. And to honestly examine our hearts. And so for every,

and one of the old Jin Z, in the same way that I need to do, but just, but there are probably some different temptations. There's different challenges. There's different whether it's, yeah, just when you think about social media, when you think about the, the messages that you're hearing to seriously filter those through denying myself and not and And that can almost seem, well, just really sad, like I'm just gonna deny myself, but that's the beauty. Take them across and follow me. What did he say to the rich young ruler

when he said, go sell all your possessions and give them the poor, and then you'll have treasure in heaven. He wasn't calling him to a miserable life. He was calling him to full life. Like this is, so it's worth it. He's better than all the best stuff of this world. And that's where even Matthew 1344,

like when that little story just tells about the manage walking in a field and he stumbles upon a treasure that he realizes is more valuable than everything else he has put together. And the text says, and nobody else knows this treasure's there. So he goes and he sells everything he has, but it says with gladness, he sells everything he has. So how can you do that?

How can you with a smile on your face sell everything you have? Because he found something that was worth losing everything for, and for us to see, for everybody listening to this, to see that Jesus is someone worth losing everything for. He's worth denying ourselves to experience life and identity, enjoy and destiny in him. He's better than all the best stuff in this world. To constantly tell ourselves that, preach that to ourselves on a daily basis as we deny

ourselves and step into the reward that is him. That's so good. Oh my gosh. I am like, I literally cannot wait for people to listen to this. I am glad for those of you who don't know this because you couldn't know this. Christians in here listening to this. And I'm glad Christian has my husband's in here listening to this with me. So we're both hearing this because I'm like, man, it's so good. And it's so true. And just that reminder that we do serve a king who says, like, to deny ourselves. And to give it all away, but it's all actually worth it.

It's not like you're giving it all away. And you just have to be like weeping and then sorrow because everything's going. It's like, gladly because of what is to come. And I remember the first time I was like, really reading Hebrews 11 and like 12 and like words, like all the heroes of faith and everything. And I remember reading it and being like, oh, this is so cool, all these heroes of faith.

And then at the end it says, and all of them, you know, went on without getting, you know, what was rewarded without seeing the promise On the surf and you kind of read that and you're like, wait, what? Like they all did these awesome things and they didn't get to see it or they didn't get to receive it But then it says but because there is something better to come and it talks about just heaven and the reward that is to come and In heaven and I was like, oh, like that is so cool actually that they gave their whole life to something that they didn't get the promises on this

side of life, but they went out believing in a full of faith of what was to come and they lived their life gladly and they live their life loudly and faithfully because they knew what was to come that were a word that was to come. I'm like, man, I want to live my life like that. Like, knowing and not getting disappointed when it doesn't happen here, because I know it's going to happen there. And just living full out like that. So that's so cool.

Last day on that. Real quick on that, I just want to mention, like a picture that I got years ago from Francis Chan, but it's so helpful. Like he pictured a rope, so just picture a rope and it starts at this point and then goes like forever in one direction. And picture the beginning of that rope is like the start of our life and like the first like inch of it is our life on the surface.

And then all that's to come after that. And just to think about how focused we are on that one inch and thinking, okay, how can I live it up right here? Like we should be thinking about all this over here. Like it goes on forever. Right. Like for 10 billion years. And we're like focused on this little inch

and not even just little inch. Like the American dream is like work really hard and study and then like this little part of this little inch at the very end when you're kind of older and you're tired, then live it up then. Like that's success according to our world. Like don't buy it. Like there's so much more this little hint. There's this whole picture, which is what Hebrews 11 and 12 point us to so live for treasure in have treasure that will never ever ever ever fade. Like that's that's life. That's life. And it's just smart. We

realize this at this point, it's like, well, to not follow Jesus is just not smart, to not and to follow Jesus in kind of a comfortable, casual Christian spin on the American dream. Like that, that's just it's dumb. It misses out on life. So anyway, just a little picture to put it in the lines. That's so good. I love that. I love that picture. And it's so true.

And it makes me think of how so many people are like after fame. And fame is like, what do they even say about it? It's 15 seconds of fame. It's like 15 minutes of fame, maybe. Like, even if it's seconds or minutes, who cares? It's 15. It's not a lot. It's very brief. it's very short.

And so many people have asked me like, you know, when you got famous, how did you not like just, you know, wanna pursue that instead of like pursuing Jesus and going towards ministry because, you know, obviously like, it didn't really seem like I had to choose ministry after dancing with the stars. I had all these other opportunities coming at me.

And I'm like, why would I not like devote my life to what I'm actually like living for and actually like going towards like eternally, right? And I could spend a couple years living it up and getting praised for it and modeling and movies and all these things. But like at the end of the day, what does that mean? Like, what does that really matter? What does that mean for eternity? What does that mean for the gospel?

What does that mean for what I believe in my mom? So this to me, whenever I was young, she said, when you decide to give your life to Jesus, when you become a Christian, when you know, your baptized, you make that decision. She's like, you don't get to pick and choose when and where you're going to be a Christian. You are a Christian. So that means if you get famous, you're still

a Christian. If you're at work, you're so Christian. If you're at school, you're still a Christian. And I think so many of us pick and choose like when we're going to actually claim our faith, when we're going to live our faith. And that's going to be on Sundays and that's going to be in Bible studies and that's going to be with the right group of people, but then when I'm with my other group of people or when I'm at that party or have this opportunity, then we're not gonna talk about our faith because that would be not cool. But like that's actually what we're called to, right? And so I love that advice and you live that so well.

I wanna go over this story and just you kinda bring this to life. You have so many great stories, but you talk about how you were in underground church in Asia at one time, and it was a place where Christians are heavily persecuted. And these people were so desperate to hear the word of God. They wanted you to teach the word, and you go in and I'll let you tell the story,

but you had some ideas of what you were gonna say. You probably had your points, your one, 2, 3, 4, your words and you taught for eight hours and not only did you talk for eight hours but they wanted you to come back. Like what does that look like and what can we learn from that of just that hunger for the word? Yeah so that picture just insured I mean you summed it up pretty good like I was in this context where I wouldn't even plan on we were in a place where there are very few believers and they're persecuted so they have to meet in secret and we were just gonna be sure in the gospel as best as we could and if we get kicked out then that's totally fine and so but met these couple leaders of a house church network and they asked me to come and spend time with them in the word. I thought it would be just yeah, like a Bible study for an hour or so.

And so yeah, I had some things I thought through, okay, here's how I can encourage them from the word. And then eight hours later, we're still going strong. And these are, I mean, we're like sneaking into these places, like we're meeting in secret, all the blinds are closed. These guys are not meeting, like I could be kicked out of the country, they, I mean, the consequence would be a lot worse for them.

They could lose a lot, including their lives. So, anyway, but we got finished that first night and eight hours and they were like, can we do this again tomorrow? I'm like, sure, and I'm thinking maybe tomorrow night or something. They say, well, no, we want to get together in the morning. It's like, okay, morning Bible study. And then they're like, until tomorrow night. And so, yeah, that started a process. Oh, wow.

Two weeks that I was there, it was pretty much like 10 to 12 hours a day. Just walk to the where they are. I was teaching at one point on Nehemi. I was just talking about the importance of the word of God of the middle of the people of God from Nehemiah 8 and I gave him some background in history of the book that helped understand that text, that story. And they came to me afterwards when we were kind of in a break and they said, we have never heard of that background. That was so helpful in understanding the Bible. Can you do that for us with all the books of the Old Testament? And so we walked through all of them. They were like, yes, all of them. So that's what we did. We just started walking through that and then we had one day left. They were like, we want to go the full day, 12 hours, say, okay, and I'm thinking, I don't know what to, what we're going to talk about. We've been through for a back at like, what else is there to cover? And I start talking about something that next morning and they were a guy in the back kind of spoke up

He said we have a problem. I said what's the problem? He said you've taught us the whole of the test of you not taught us the new testament and and I was like Okay, so we want the new testament today, please and so we like to the next 12 hours walking from Matthew's revelation like they love the word say he like it is worth giving their lives To know it and to hear it. Like they're risking their lives for it. And I could tell story after story of that kind of picture around the world. And so like is so how does is the same true with us like do we love this word like we have yeah free access to it all the time. So are we are we waking up and meditating on it day and night? I mean, I think about some of our

Afghan partners that we that we work with right now, who I mean, they they meet in secret late at night by candlelight and they are just reading like whispering the Bible. They have one Bible between them. They have to go out and get from from a cave to bring back and read it by candlelight in order to just soak in here from God like it's that important to them and yes if they were caught it would it would cost them most likely their lives and so this word is that good. And I would just add like they have, they don't have so much of what we have. And obviously they're not in good situations and these kind of persecuted situations. At the same time, they really believe there's power in just the

spirit of God and the word of God. And not all this other stuff that we oftentimes surround ourselves within the church. Like there's a sufficiency in the spirit and the word that I I long to be a part of. So anyway, yeah, that's so much. So much to take away. Yes, absolutely. And I know I feel like we need some of that. We need a lot of that. We need that hunger for the word. We need that desire. We need that. just the understanding, the gravity of what we hold and what we carry and what people probably have six Bibles in their house all around that maybe they don't open, but like these people have one and they're all circled around their whispering and they're getting from a cave. And I've heard you tell stories of crawling through the night to hide the Bible

and then get it back and all the things and it's just wild. I know YAH's team has come up with a creative solution to help us get a little bit of that with something called the Secret Church. Share a little bit about that and how people can get involved if they want to. Yeah, so when I came back from that, we were sitting around just with some brothers and sisters and just friends and they were like, why don't we do that? Why don't we get together for like 12 hours of time, just to study the word. So we said, well let's try it one night and we won't do 12, we'll just do six, like from six to midnight and we'll gather around, just to the word and, and I should add that that 12 hours a day with those those brothers and sisters in that location, like it's studying the word and it's pray and like to pray with them to see them on their faces, just weeping in prayer. So we said, all right, let's set aside six hours, just study the word, like with hunger for it, till past midnight and to pray specifically for our

persecuted brothers and sisters in the world. And so we started doing that years ago, like we'll do it again a few months from now at the end of April, secret church. This is the 22nd time we've done it. And it's been awesome. Like it's I love and now it's a signimalcast because we got the point where I that first night we did it there were about a thousand people Who showed up and and we're part of this which was awesome But then we maxed out within about a year or two

The number of people who could fit in a room. So then we tried to figure out anyway that let us the simulcast So there'll be 50,000 or so people from all around the world Which yeah anybody can be a part of secretchurch.org. You can find out information about it. And so what we do is each time, so we'll take a different, so we did over the old testament one night, over the new testament one night, how to study the Bible, or there will take a different doctrine. So like this, this time I'm actually doing the doctrine of humanity. So what does the Bible teach about who we are, so our identity, and then I try to apply that to all kinds of different issues.

So I'm taking doctrine of humanity and applying it to artificial intelligence and gene editing and metaverse and social and digital media and how does our understanding of humanity affect the way we live and a lot of all these issues in the world and so and race and justice. So it's just that it's like a fire hose of context because it's kind of patterned after. When these brothers and sisters get together in those places like it's the risk of their lives they're not playing around like they're making most of that time. That's what we do. We just dive into hardcore, six hours of prayer, of study around the word and prayer will pray specifically

for a part of the world where our brothers, sisters, are persecuted. So yeah, secret church.org, people can find out more information there. That is awesome. I'm so excited for that. We want to be a part of it. I'm 28 Christian.

We want to listen in. And so secret church.org, definitely check that out. David, thank you so much. Your stories are so powerful. It's Jessica Deere. Thank you for going and telling. Thank you for reading and sharing. Thank you for all the things that you and your family in your ministry does to help just grow the church and equip the church. We're so appreciative. And this has just been a great conversation and I have to say, you've also given great inspiration to people who used to be socially awkward because that was one of my favorite conversations

that I've had on the podcast because when people come on a podcast, they're very form or interview-like and they have their answer, but you're such a conversationalist and I'm like, that is awesome and so if you're socially awkward out there, look at this man. Look at how lucky his color. I appreciate you being on the bike guys and breaking paths all the barriers. Love it. Well, thanks. This is pure joy.

I'm so thankful for you guys. And yeah, just for God's grace in you all. And the way you always say to me and you've done it all throughout this conversation and a way that's encouraged me and I trust everybody's listening. Like, yeah, God's unique grace and each of our lives, whether it's me and my social awkwardness and everything else that God's up and even difficult things along the way, like the way God's doing a lot of good work when we trust in Him. So just grateful for you guys. Amen.

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