WHOA That's Good Podcast - How Our Hardest Season Made Us Stronger | Sadie Robertson Huff | Luke & Courtney Smallbone

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

Sadie calls Luke (for KING & COUNTRY) and Courtney Smallbone “the realest deal,” and she’s absolutely right. From how they first met to falling in love, Luke and Courtney share their backwards Cinderella dating story — and what it actually looked like to live out their vows in the early years of marriage. In sickness and in health… and then some. Through disease, terrifying moments with their baby, unexpected surgeries, addiction, and rehab, they get real about how hardship and suffering didn’t break them—it built their faith, strengthened their love, and shaped a marriage that reflects God’s love in a way only He can. Plus, Luke shares the backstory behind for KING & COUNTRY’s “Burn the Ships,” and Sadie recalls how the song specifically impacted her, too. This Episode of WHOA That's Good is Sponsored By: https://preborn.com/sadie — Donate today. For just $28, you can help a mother in need meet her baby for the very first time. https://wildgrain.com/whoa — Get $30 off your first box - PLUS free Croissants for life! https://drinkAG1.com/whoa — Get 3 AG1 Travel Packs, 3 AGZ Travel Packs, and Vitamin D3+K2 FREE in your Welcome Kit with your first subscription order when you use my link! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My favorite part about when we first got married was we probably only been married for a few weeks. And I go into the kitchen and she's like, something's wrong with the dishwasher. There's bubbles coming out everywhere. And I was like, I open it up. And I'm like, well, yeah. I mean, there's obviously something. What did you put in this? And she was like, I just put in the dish soap into the.

It was like bleeding. It was bleeding. I knew nothing. All over everything. I mean, it was, you know, it seems like that would have been the writing to do. But I was like, we were children. Honey, we can't put,

we can't put Dawn in the dishwasher. Oh my gosh. God is so many. You knew that. I never knew. That is hilarious. I didn't know. Learn together.

You learned together. The suns were so thick. The rubber seal on the dishwasher couldn't hold all of the bubbles. It overflowed out of the dishwasher. Yes. It was literally like. bleeding out bubbles. That is so funny. It was terrifying for me at the moment. I would have totally done that though. I was terrified. That is hilarious.

We haven't, we haven't told that story in a long time. What's up, everybody? I hope you're having a great day. It is about to get so much better because we have some amazing guests all the way here in Monroe today. And I'm so excited for it. This is the second time for Luke, the first time for his wife, Courtney Smallbone, to be on the podcast. and we have a million things to talk about, honestly. But first, I just want to say, welcome to the podcast. And thank you all for coming all the way, this way, to stay at Hotel Monroe. I know.

We got to have a little bit of, like, a romantic getaway coming down here. We saw this on the schedule, and I was like, honey, I think it's just you and I going down to Louisiana. And so anyway, I got a text from my brother, Josh, who actually runs our office. He was like, hey, by the way, like, the hotel that got you staying is, and he's, like, real legit. He scouts everything. He just looks at everything. So we just felt so loved, so hosted, so like, you guys have been so hospitable. And, yeah, we just kind of showed up and it's been lovely.

I love that. I love that. Well, we always want people to feel that way. And for some people who are listening to this and you came, you know, for a conference one year and you might have stayed at not so great of a hotel. And they were just, I'm sorry, Monroe has a good side. It's some not so good. But all of it is a fun experience.

So we're glad that y'all have been having fun. Also, Courtney, can we talk about for a second, the Bob life? This is really a podcast about how a haircut can change your life. I knew it. Your post, though, you had a little series of a post when you cut your hair, and I related to it so much because before I got my haircut, I was like, why is this such a big deal? Like, why does this feel like such a big deal?

I literally scheduled it twice and then canceled the appointment twice. Because you were scared? Yes. And then I was like, why is this so dramatic? And I was, like, annoyed at myself for it being so dramatic. But then when you posted that, I was like, wow, okay. I'm not the only person that this feels like, I don't know, bigger than just like a haircut. But can you share a little bit about that?

Because that was really good. There's a lot attached to hair. So I, I mean, it was funny because I was like, babe, I was like, I tell them everything, all the thoughts. But I was like, this is what it feels like, like when you cut your hair, right? And it was like super long and more blonde, which is not my natural color. And so for a while I had extensions, all this stuff. And I was like, I think I'm just tired of not looking like myself. Yeah.

Or I don't know. It was like almost this like act of like there's a new season. So you actually need to look a different way. Yes. So there's this this act of like, you know what? I'm going to cut off all my hair. This is like Joan of Arc vibe, you know? And you know what?

Also in many cultures they would cut off their hair when they were done morning when they were marking new seasons. So I like study that after the fact. I was like, I don't know. I just felt like we just need to like take. it all. But it's really true. You can, a lot of women that I've talked to since that, like, I don't know if I could do that. Like, I feel like, would I be beautiful? Like, there's so much around it. There's emotions around it and, like, beauty. And I was like, wow, didn't know. At least we know that Samson can relate. Yeah. Like, he went through some things.

Hey, it's deep. He went through some things. That's a whole different story. We're going a different round of that. I was like, no. There's some stuff going on. No, that's actually so true, though. Like, I felt like, because in the past, I changed my hair whenever seasons were getting a little crazy and I wanted to control something. That's right. And then I was like, this time it's not like that.

Like, I'm actually really healthy. And so I was like, okay, I feel like I'm making a dramatic. It was like long. She had long hair like leaves. It was very similar. Yeah. And so anyways, it was just really cool to see you do that. And then your post, I was like, man, you're putting some words to kind of what I was

feeling. So, yeah, it was cool. And you look amazing. I love the Bob. I love your mom, too. I love it too. I love the change. It was cool.

See, that's sweet. That's a good husband right there. Supporting the haircut. He was more all in maybe than me. He was like, I think this is my favorite. That's how Christian was. Isn't that strange? I was like, oh, who was I before?

I know. I was like, why didn't I do this? There's so many new thoughts. I love that. Okay, the other thing that I want to chit chat about before we dive into the deep end is you guys are like homeschooling, Homestead, like, this is what everyone's inspired by these days, you know? I feel like once you go down that path, like, there's a whole, if you start following people on that path, then your whole social media is that.

And it's very inspiring. I'm not there yet. My brother and sister-in-law are, and there are neighbors, so I feel like I'm kind of tied to the connection. I get some eggs out of the situation, some honey from the bees. I feel like I'm, you know, placed in high favor because I'm beside someone who's locked in. but I need to get locked in too. So tell me about how that whole journey started for y'all.

Yeah, well, it was quite a number of years ago. I mean, what? We've been, where we've been living now, it's been coming up on 11 years. So we live just south of Nashville. And life was extremely busy. And I had been really, really sick. And honestly, what you guys are talking about with the hair, the move kind of represented in some cases we need to change up life a little bit.

And so I was coming back from the road and had these people, like neighbors like, so happy to have you home. And I was like, I appreciate that. And I think I came into the house one day. I was like, honey, I can't do this anymore. Yeah, it's going from so many people to more people. More people. And like, how was your trip? And it was like, we were like, well, let's move to the country.

And when we moved to the country, this old, it's an old 1840s farmhouse. And we were just, we had young kids. I think Jude was two and a half. Phoenix was six months old. And we just kind of realized that we wanted to blow up life and get outside. And, you know, obviously, I love, I love, like, mowing. And I love doing, I love weed eating. I grew up doing that, you know, kind of when I was a kid.

And I just needed to feel, like Courtney used to say, and this is not for everybody. So I'm just going to qualify this. But she used to say, I want to walk out on the back porch. I want to look to my left. I don't look to my right. And I don't want to see anybody. And like, I love people. but like not in the morning when I'm drinking my coffee.

Hey, that's fair. So then we had some friends that kind of mentored us that were older, you know, in their 50s. And they were like, hey, we got into cows. You've got young kids. Maybe you guys could get into cows. And so anyway, we had bought some land. And I don't know why we even bought the land at some level. I just loved land.

And I was like, honey, I think that we should put cows on the. And she's like, did you grow up doing cows? No. Don't know anything about it. Don't know how to do it. Don't know. And so anyway, our friend of Isles, he was like, hey, here's a deal with cows. You just basically have to have really good fencing. You have to feed them and they have to have water. And you just observe them. Wow. Like a fit-up. For whatever reason, it has become extremely

therapeutic. I've often thought that, you know, obviously we live lifestyles. It can be a little intense at times. And people like, oh, when you come back off the road, you must be exhausted. And I'm like, physically you're basically fine within 24 to 48 hours. It's the emotional stuff that is the draining stuff. And I've often said that for whatever reason when I come home, and she'll see this sometimes, I go out and I get on the tractor, I get on the skid steer,

and I go feed the animals. And I might take a little bit longer than really the task needs. And that's just for whatever reason, it's life-giving to me. So we are pretty, when it comes to homestead, we've got chickens, we've got cows, you know, we've got dogs, and we used to have bees.

I killed all the bees. Well, actually our neighbor, someone sprayed some toxic stuff. And it killed actually all the neighboring bees, best in peace. So anyway, so it's always been a little bit of a... It happens. It happens. It's been a little bit of a process. And I think there's a lot of people, because on Instagram and things, you get into homesteading.

It's like, well, I'm not homesteading as good as that person. And the truth is, is there's people that are going to scale this thing up. We have found a rhythm that works for us. And I think if there was other people that were interested in doing these types of things, It's like, you know, for you guys, it might not want to be getting into bees, cows, chickens, pigs and, like, you know, turkey. Like, people go crazy with it, right? But if you want to, you know, dabble in it, there's just a few sometimes steps that you can take. And that was kind of our process.

That's super cool. I love that. Well, it's very inspiring. And I feel similar in that we love when we come back, like, I lived to Nashville for a little while and, like, in Nashville. And that was really hard for me because I felt like there was never an off moment, too. Like I would go get coffee and it's like people on their bachelorette trip and they're like, Sadie. And I'm like, hi. But I'm also like trying to just get coffee and I love meeting people.

And that was the thing about it. I actually love meeting people and talking to people. But at that point, it was so much that I was starting to like be overwhelmed by that and not enjoy it. And I'm like, this is not who I am. Like, I like this, you know. And I feel like y'all probably feel the same way. I love people as well. But what I've realized is for me to love people best.

is for me to be able to take some retreats. Because the truth is, once I retreat a little bit, and I get my soul in order, I can actually love people the way they deserve to be loved. And so I felt the same thing. Like, it's not that I don't let you, and you feel this conviction, but it's actually that you've got to take care of your soul. So true. You know what I mean?

If you take care of your soul, you can be a great, you know, in my situation, husband, but you can be a great spouse. You can have room to be a good parent. you can have room to be a good business leader, a good friend. But when your soul is empty, you start sucking at all of it. So true. And that's not what we really want to be in life. That's actually so true.

It makes me think of like, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mine's and should love your neighbor as yourself. But like it comes after loving God. And I think that's so real because once I moved back here, I was just like, oh, I can breathe, you know. And then when I go out anywhere, even just locally in town, Like I feel like, oh, like my soul is revived. Like, it's good because I live like my home is at peace, you know?

And so I feel that. I love that. That's really good advice even for people who might not be able to move or you might not get the haircut. There's little things that you can do, you know. I always love this quote. It said, take two-minute vacations. And I'm like, that's good. Like, sometimes you only have two minutes.

Sometimes you have two hours. Sometimes you have two days. But like take those moments to like revive your soul. So good, guys. Hey fam, I want to talk to you about an organization that is close to my heart and that's pre-born. There are so many women who find themselves unexpectedly pregnant and completely overwhelmed. Fear sets in fast and too often they feel like they are out of options. That was the case for a woman named Evie.

After being told that she couldn't get pregnant, she was shocked to find out that she was and fear led her down a path that left her carrying grief no one had prepared her for. Later, when Evie reached out to a pre-born clinic, everything changed. She didn't find judgment. She actually found compassion, truth, and hope. And when she became pregnant again, she went back to the clinic, seeing her baby on an ultrasound and hearing that tiny heartbeat changed everything. Her daughter is alive today because someone was there at exactly the right moment. I remember the first time I heard my baby's heartbeat in that moment is like the moment it sunk in like, wow, I am pregnant. And that's when it just gets so real. So here's what really stuck out to me. For just $28, you can actually provide a life-saving. ultrasound and so much more because this is the moment that it's going to help women sink in that wow this is happening and they're going to have help around them preborn also shares the hope of the gospel offers counseling and meets real physical needs like diapers maternity clothes and car seats all completely free to these moms so they're not just giving you an ultrasound they're really

coming around you as a mother so if you want to be a part of this amazing work you can donate by dialing pound 250 and saying the keyword baby that's pound 250 with the word baby or visit preborn.com slash Sadie. All gifts are tax deductible. Help save lives to support moms in the most life-changing moments. Preborn.com slash Sadie. Okay, let's get into how y'all met because the meeting of you too is quite a funny story. So when's the first time you laid eyes on Courtney?

So I had bought some shoes from Johnny's shoe store in the mall. I don't know if they have the, you know, down here in Monroe. or not. Yes. You have a journey. Yes, you have journeys. Yes, you have journeys. Shout out. And so I bought some shoes and for whatever reason, I mean, you got to understand, in my early 20s, I was fundamentally broke. And I had spent, like, I went out and was like, I got a $100 shoes, you know, and I got nice shoes. And within a week, I kid you not, the heel had just like popped off. They were like diesel shoes. Yeah, they were like nice shoes. I was like, what were you doing in these? And so anyway, I was like, you know, I had this like poor man's wrath. You know, I was like,

I'm going to deal with the people at Journeys for selling me bad shoes. That's actually true. And so anyway, I walk into the store and Courtney didn't sell me the shoes, but Courtney was behind the counter in this situation. So I went in, and I knew of her family from church, but we had never really, we'd seen each other maybe one other time, but we didn't really have a conversation. Our dads did love each other. And our dads loved each other.

So anyway, my pickup line was, because, you know, Courtney's this beautiful girl. She's behind the counter. And I literally, her maiden name is Helm. And I just, I just went up to her and was like, oh, you're a helm, huh? And that's what I led with. And that's what I led with. And she was like, oh, you must be a small bone, which sounds particularly derogatory in return.

And so anyway, we had this great conversation for like 20 minutes. She obviously couldn't help me with my shoes, you know, because I don't know why I thought this, but like once you walk out with the shoes, you're not coming back with the shoes and they're exchanging new shoes. You know, I kind of forgot that policy. And but we had a wonderful conversation.

And so as I'm leaving, I literally knock off like over a shoe display of shoes. I mean, that was a disaster. Like you fell? I didn't fall. He was walking backwards talking to me, which is like really cute. Like so rom-com.

He's like, yeah, so maybe I'll see you around. And then I was like, oh gosh. But I thought I also. was cute. Like I was like, yeah. So anyway, I kind of biffed it, you know. This is hope for all the men out there who the first encounters don't go well. And honestly, they usually don't go as you plan, to be honest. And that's part of what makes your story. Fast forward a week. I used to help run lights at our church. And so I was volunteering. And she came up and was like, hey, I'm so sorry. We couldn't help you with your shoes. But I just thought I would buy you some shoes. And so she hands me

me. I was so, so flustered because I didn't want to. Because I was like, I don't want him to think I'm like, desperate and like won attention because I was not in that phase in my life I was like it's me and God I don't want anyone she's 19 yeah and like I moved to Nashville I'm like I will not date one anyone in the music industry and then he was in music I'm like like like you were not my type and then I was like he's really kind like I got to talk to him and then I felt bad for judging him I was like you have a really golden heart and he lives in poverty so I need to help him I need to like I need to invest in his ministry. But, like, actually, I was like, oh, you're like a really good person. So her point, she comes up, she gives me the shoes. And so you're kind of thinking as a man, like,

maybe this is the moment she lingers, you know, and she walks away. Oh, you just dropped the shoes. I left in a hurry. The conversation probably lost a minute 30. Oh, my God. I was very anxious. Like, I was like, just here. I'm so sorry. You're so nice. Like, bless you in your ministry. I hope this helps you. Bye. Like, I just didn't. I was so awkward. I get home with the shoes. and where our kind of love story, you know, bloomed and blossomed from there was. The shoes were the wrong size. And so... This is straight up Cinderella backwards.

Oh, my gosh. It's like the shoe fits and like he couldn't afford the shoes. So it's like it's like backwards Cinderella. Did you just watch this movie recently? Actually, yes. I did because Haven loves it. Wow, I'm in the right. You ever thought about this.

Never thought about that. It's a Cinderella story. It's been a very vital part of our relationship. Wait, this is so sweet. Okay, so how did it end up sparking? So then when I got back to the house, I realized they were the wrong size. And so I didn't know what else to do other than Facebook her, which was pretty new at the time. Yeah.

And so I Facebooked them. I was like, hey, you know, thank you so much. I mean, I think I've still got those letters. He printed them out. Yeah. I printed them out for like a dating gift at one point. And I burnt the edges, which was hard, by the way. Oh, like so cute.

Yeah. And so we, and it's funny actually to do that because you look back on how you write and you're like, wow, I was definitely behaving in a way that isn't like, this is my best behavior. Yeah. You're really thinking about what you're typing. So anyway, I Facebooked her and she said, well, this is when I work. And then I went back in. We exchanged the shoes. And then she was helping out or so I was helping out with a youth ministry. And then she had been helping out a little bit with it as well. And so I was like, well, why don't we get, you know, kind of help out do that together a little bit. And we were really good friends for about six months.

I went to Australia during that time. And we just once again wrote kind of emails back and forth, kind of wrote letters, honestly. We didn't talk, I don't think, of, like, on the phone while I was in Australia. No, we were kind of like keeping it under wraps because it was like a friendship, but like both of our families, they're both strong. They would be very like, what's going on? And it just was like, you know, just friendship. So speaking of Cinderella, now that you say this, when I landed back, when I landed back into America, the pastor of the church,

his daughter was getting married, and our family was invited to go. And mom and dad were like, well, Luke, you know, if you want to come to the wedding, you know, you guys are all invited. And I was like, yo, I'm going to go. And they were a little like, why is Luke wanting to come to this wedding, you know?

And I thought, I think Courtney will be there. Oh, that's our family was there. Hold it. Hold it. This is what's really truly sweet now that I'm, you're getting the elongated version of the story. That's my podcast are the best. You get the whole story.

We go to the wedding. and we see each other, we got mutual friends there, we hang out a little bit, and then the dance floor opens up, all right? And we danced, literally, I think we were the last couple on the dance floor.

And there was a, I think the pastor whose daughter was getting married actually said, pretty sure Luke and Courtney are having more fun than the bride and groom. The bride and group sat down and started watching us at that point.

It was pretty like, and you all weren't like really dating. No, we weren't dating. No. And so I had another brother that was there, Daniel, and he was like, called me, I think, on the way home and he was like, what just happened there?

So what was that? A lot of everyone was like, what is happening? What is happening? My dad took a video on it on his phone. Yeah, he took a video because he's like, something is happening. Isn't that cute? All in a dance floor? Wait, that is so cute.

And that is so Cinderella. This is amazing. Hey, I've never heard anybody else say it. And I've never even thought of it. Never connected that. That's really good. I love that so much. Y'all's story is so sweet.

And it's really cool because so many girls say that part of the story and I had a similar story. was like, you know, it's me and the Lord. I'm not going to date. And then, like, he walks right into the shoe store and, like, this is what happens. Your journey at that point was interesting around 19 because you came from a Christian family. You, you know, knew God your whole life. But that was maybe right after a time you were questioning your faith. Can you share a little bit about what that looked like for you?

Yeah. So I'm a third generation's pastor's kid. And so I've grown up in the church. And there's such beauty to that. But you hit these points in your own life. your own walk. And so we were part of an amazing church in Florida and I was on staff for a while. And I just hit this crisis of faith. Like what do I actually believe about God? And like God didn't feel personal to me. I was like, man, is he like a business guy that like I have to sit down?

I have to make an appointment. Like are you with me? Like I had these questions. Like are you with me brushing my teeth? Like I want to be intimate with you. Like I want to know you. And until that, until that, I'm out. Like I'm such an all in person. I was like, until I know you, I'm done. So I was a self-professed, like, atheist. Like, I literally was like, I don't want what other people are telling me. I don't want any of this. Like, I want to know you.

So that took me through a really hard season of a lot of darkness, which was a gift. And that's when I actually was diagnosed with a rare disease. and not saying that God caused it, but he allowed it, right, for formation to happen in my life. And what I knew about him after that happened was you are who you say you are and you do what you say you will do. You can have my life. Like, I'm all in. Wow. Because before that, you know, I was kind of like playing, playing a game.

Like it's performance. And then I couldn't perform anymore. I was like, this will kill me. which I think that's what religion is. Like that kills you. I mean, religion killed Jesus. So I think this crisis was not as horrible as I felt maybe in the time, like some shame and stuff. I think it's just very like, do you want the real thing?

Yeah. And so after that point, I was like, you've got me. Like, I'm all in. Like, I believe it. Yeah. Not because of anyone else. And it became mine. And so after that point, I just, well, I was recovering from.

really horrible disease, so I was really weak. And I had worked in ministry my whole life, and then I walked by journeys. And God was like, I want you to work here for a few months. And I'm like, why? Like, I've never done this before, right? But I was healing and trying to get into like some kind of rhythm of life again. And I thought, oh, it's just me and him. Like, it's me and God. And like, I just, I have a lot of maybe time to make up too with God. And then you know, Luke came in. Yep. Stumbled his way in.

Yeah, truly. Are you a helm? Yeah. But yeah, so that was a bit of my like precursor to that time was this like, a man, just a valley or just even like this deep desert season. And you can feel so vulnerable and sensitive after that. So I was very like vulnerable after that. Yeah. This episode of What That's Good is brought to you by Wild Grain.

and if your goal this year is making easier meals that feel special, then this is a win for you. Wild grain is the first bake from Frozen subscription box for amazing goodies like sourdough breads, artisan pastries, and fresh pasta. Y'all, this is amazing. And everything bakes in 25 minutes or less, which honestly feels like a lifesaver on busy nights. Unlike a lot of store-bought stuff, Wildgrain uses simple ingredients that you can actually pronounce. They also use a slow fermentation process that's easier on your tummy, richer in nutrients and antioxidants, and there are zero preservatives, no shortcuts here.

I also love that their boxes are fully customizable. You can choose from their variety box, gluten-free box, vegan box, or their new protein box. So it works for real families no matter what your goals are. We are the biggest wild grain fans. Like if I don't have wild grain in our freezer, I legitimately am sad because that is like my go-to for breakfast, for dinners, for all the things. Their bread is amazing. Their pastas are great. It's just easy. and still healthy, and that's something that you don't get that combo a lot. There's nothing like having an artisan bakery in your freezer to chase away the winter chill. Now, it's the best time to stay in and enjoy comforting homemade meals with Wildgrain.

I highly recommend giving Wildgrain a try. Right now, Wildcrain is offering our listeners $30 off your first box. Plus, get this free croissants for life when you go to wildgrain.com and use the code woe to start your subscription today. That's $30 off your first box and free croissants for life. visit wildgrained.com slash woe or you can use the promo code whoa at checkout. I think it's so cool to share that side of your story because people look at y'all and a lot of people know your story and then hear you say you know you're a pastor's kid and grew up in church and it can be easy to be like oh match made in heaven this all worked out great easy and it's like no

there's so many layers and so much depth to y'all's story and I think it's cool too just for so many people listening who have grown up in the church or even parents are pastors to go it's okay to ask God those questions for yourself. And like your faith has to become personal. It has to become your own for it to be real and to have a true foundation. And so even though that's like scary water to step in, it's like you have to be willing to step there

so that you can meet God there too. And so I think it's so cool that you share your story. Y'all have this new song out ever and ever before. And that's one of those songs. It's like, it's so good. I'm listening to it. I'm like, this is amazing. but there's like layers to the words that y'all are singing.

Knowing y'all's story, I'm like, wow, this is so cool knowing the context. Because y'all had this like Cinderella story, you're dancing on the dance floor, everything's magic, everyone's taking pictures, like this is amazing. But y'all had some really tough first couple years in marriage. Like y'all have said it. We lived out our vows in our early 20s. Not a lot of people have to walk through that. So take us to y'all getting married and the first couple years.

Yeah, so we got married. we had in some cases, yeah, that wonderful beginning. But in some cases when most people don't really know this, but as soon as I really started actively in music, life got particularly complex. And it got complex and it got really, really difficult and circumstantially our life got really, really tough. You know, pretty soon after we were married,

we were married in 2010 in 2012, which was when Jude was. born a few months prior to when he was born, I kind of got diagnosed with the autoimmune disease and at some levels probably ignored, you know, some of the symptoms and some of the things that were going on. And I got to a point where I got really, really sick. I actually had to come off the road for about three months. And I got down to about 125 pounds. And I'm six foot four. And so I was probably about 40 to 50 pounds under what they would just, your base level weight should be and it got scary there for for quite a while and um and so yeah we you know it's it's you know so i got

a newborn baby you know we do he's six months old i'm so weak that i can't even hold him and you're sitting there like wow is this this is this is this is this is this is this and then and then it got so scary to where it got to well am i going to be able to like hang on and actually live and are we going be able to live through this. And so there was one particular night where, and you know, marriage has this unique way, and it's a real, an amazing thing that God gives you is, is it's a reflection period of who you are. And the truth is, is you get married and you have all these hopes and dreams for your life, but it's not until you really get into it that you start to see like, wow, I've got like wounds and things that I never really thought that I had. And not because she's necessarily saying,

look at the wound in your life. But because of the way that you live your life, you go, and I think I had gotten to a point where I was trying to work so hard, trying to be so diligent with what God had given us and what we were trying to steward that I'll never forget coming back off of a tour once, and I said to Courtney, I sat on a couch and I said, is it okay that I'm just sitting down? And she was like, what do you mean?

I was like, well, I don't think I have anything to do right now. I probably should be doing something. And I remember she just kind of said like, just listen to yourself. That sounds a little insane, right? And that's what drove me into, you know, getting very, very sick. You know, a few years after that, we had a scenario where we nearly lost our son, Leo. He was two months old. And, you know, he was asleep in the bed. And Courtney, you know, felt this, hey, he's taking an nap, go check on him, goes checks on him. He's got blood coming out of his nose and he's not breathing. You know, we go out to, she, you know, I was mowing the lawn. She screams, you know, call 911, call 911. We have him on the, on our driveway. I still remember the spot where he was. And he's not breathing.

And she just starts praying these amazing prayers over him, you know, basically demanding. I've never heard anyone pray like it. Demanding that God brings him back. Wow. And, you know, he at some point takes a gulp of air. I called the ambulance during this time. and they were like, we'll be there in five minutes, and you're like, well, that's not going to, that's not going to work.

Just soon after that, he starts breathing again. And so we go to hospital, we get to, we live in a small town, similar to Monroe. And they were like, you've got to go to the bigger town. So we went to Vanderbilt Hospital. And while we were in the ER there, they were like, hey, do you realize what he's got going on with his head? And we were like, no.

And they said, well, he's got something called craniosynastosis, which is when your child's head fuses shut. And they're like, he's so small that we can't do the surgery now, but at six months, he's going to have to have a skull reconstruction surgery. Whoa. And, you know, so in some cases, you're like, the hits keep on coming. And so we walked through that process together. And, you know, there's, obviously there's more and more stories inside of that. And so there was about 10 years, you know, just even a few years ago, I had to have vocal surgery.

You know, I couldn't speak for however long. And, you know, there's been things. But speaking to marriage, you know, I don't know too many. There's other people that have these stories, right? You know, suffering will find you in life. It's guaranteed. But I will say what we've built in our marriage is we've built marriage equity. And sometimes you've got to spend it.

And I think when you get into the hard things like this and you're like, hey, I'm still here. I mean, when I was sick, it wasn't pretty. This is ugly stuff. The disease I had is disgusting. It's not fun. She never left. You know? You go through that nurse taking your child to go do a surgery that they're saying he's going to be in, you know, hospital for recovery for a week to 10 days.

And we don't, you know, should be okay, but. Yeah. And you're, you know, walking out and there's the collapse for both of us of like, did we just make the right decision, you know, all these things. You get to the other side of that. And there's, like, we lived out of our value. We had the gift of living out our vows in our 20s. Wow. And, you know, in some cases we sit here today,

getting to reflect on that. In some case, you know, laugh about some stories, but then actually look at the goodness of who Jesus is. Because sometimes the greatest way God can love you is actually by allowing you to go through some struggle. We are repulsed by the idea of pain and suffering in this world. But the greatest things, the greatest stories I ever, you know, read in the Bible, I hear where they went through some sick.

significant struggle and struggle produces something in people's life. It produces character. It produces perseverance and it ends up with hope. If you want hope, you're probably going to actually have to walk through some struggle because hope in the Greek actually you can translate it to certainty. So if struggle produces perseverance, perseverance, character, character, hope, you have to go through some struggle for it to produce certainty in your life. That is good. It makes me think of your prayer of like God, I want to know you personally. And then you said, God didn't give you that, but he allowed that. And then on the outcome of it, you knew him personally. And so that's so real. If you want hope, if you want to know God personally, sometimes that does come with

struggle. But you don't have to, don't make that, I think some people will hear that and go, okay, well, then I'm not going to pray for that. Like, I don't want that. But it's like, no, because you come out stronger. You come out with certainty. I think God uses everyone's different circumstances different ways, right? Some people, like, don't have this story, but their love for Jesus is radical. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't always go that way, but what I will say is, you know, another scripture even is talking about Courtney's story, which is, you know, work out your faith with fear and trembling. Fearing trembling doesn't necessarily always mean, you know, a deathly disease. Yeah, that's right. But it does mean that you have to work it out. You have to, you have to get to a

desperation point. You have to get to a point of going, I'm sinful. I need someone in my life that can triumph over sin. That's when reliance and faith is produced. And at the end of the day, why I think God wants the most from us, he wants faithfulness. He wants to say, how do you feel the most loved by your children?

When you tell them to do something and they go, I, I cap, you're like, this is amazing. I'm an incredible parent. But that's what you feel really loved. I think it's similar with God. When we hear something from God and we're like, this feels risky,

this feels whatever, but I'm going to go do this. it produces something significant in our lives. Great. I just read through for anyone doing the Bible recap out there. We just got through Job. And I loved the Terley Cable was kind of giving some advice in the midst of it. And she was like, I always tell people, like, you can quit before you start reading Job or you can quit.

Like, or you have to finish it. Like, you can't quit in the middle. Like, you have to finish it. And I was like, man, that's so real. Because in the middle, you're like, oh, this is like another conversation, another bad thing, another whatever. And then you get to the end. And it's like, what does Joe know? He knows that, like, God is real.

He knows his Redeemer lives. Like, he knows, like, him so personally. And it's not even just about that God gave back. It was about, like, him knowing God. And it really was, like, so cool that she said that in that middle part because I remember thinking, like, okay, this is, like, rough in there. But then you have to get to the end. And it's such a struggle and a wrestle.

But at the end, it comes into, like, I know him personally. And I'm not going to question you anymore. whenever God comes to Joe and he's like, you want to keep questioning me? Like, were you there when the universe was creative? Were you there? You know, it's like so sassy. It's the most amazing mic drop. It's like, no, it's a mic drop.

It's a mic drop. It's so good. Thank you for sharing that, all of that. Your All's story is so, so wild and it's so beautiful that you share because it gives hope to so many people. One thing I heard y'all say in an interview you did one time was your marriage counseling before you got married. y'all discovered something about your relationship that was a blessing.

Do you know what I'm talking about? And can y'all speak to that? It was kind of the idea that y'all were able to resolve conflict. And I think that that's actually really cool to look back. Was it our high scores? Your high scores. Your high scores, because I do think that a lot of people are afraid to, like, argue. And, like, they think, oh, if I'm arguing, it's bad.

But I think, like, what y'all were talking about. Conflict resolution? Yes. Because I think that that's a really cool. thing that y'all noted before you even got married. Yeah. And then when you stepped into marriage, you didn't know everything that you were going to walk through.

But like, praise God, you already had a steady, like strong relationship going in that was willing to kind of talk about the hard stuff. Winter mornings move slower in our house. It's darker, colder, and honestly, a little harder to just get yourself going for the day. And so I've tried to be intentional about leaning into small grounding habits. And AG1 is one of those for us. AG1 NextGen is a daily held drink with more than 75 ingredients, including vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and superfoods, basically all the things that help fill common nutrient gaps in adults

while supporting gut health, all without juggling a bunch of supplements. It's great to start your morning off with AG1. It's just one scoop in cold water, and it feels like I am setting a solid foundation for a busy day. It's not about doing everything perfectly. It's about having one simple habit that you can go back to no matter how crazy your day gets. AG1 fits into your real life, whether your mornings are calm or chaotic. When routines shift and schedules aren't predictable, AG1 is there. And even whenever I'm traveling, AG1 makes it so simple for me with travel packs.

Age 1 really is awesome. It's so well-rounded. For me, I love that I don't have to have a bunch of different supplements because it's just one thing that helps everything. Not only does it help with my energy and brain fog, but also gut health, which I'm big on. I definitely notice a huge difference when my gut is healthy. So if you want a simple way to support your health this winter, AG1 makes it easy. Visit drinkag1.com slash woe to get three AG1 travel packs, three AGZ travel packs, and vitamin D3 plus K2 free in your welcome kit with your first subscription order. Again, that's drinkag1.com slash woe.

Yeah, I mean, communication, I think that's what came up the most was our communication level. And that's so crazy because, I mean, we were almost married now 16 years. So we've got communication. way back down. But like, but that's so important because a lot of people forget the basic things. They actually don't do the foundational things, whether that's in their health or their lives or their marriages. And they're like, but I want that, but I don't want to have to really do anything to get there. And so that doesn't work. Like the water is, the grass is greener where you water it. So same with marriage is like, if I want to feel connected to you, I have to do something.

To go to Monroe and stay at the hotel Monroe. If someone has to do it. This is what has happened. But it's like communication is so bedrock. So that means like when you're talking about conflict, you know, resolving that, you actually have to say the hard thing. Yep. You have to say the true thing. And the only way to do that is to be like, hey, when you did that, that hurt me because

of this. But I know it's not fully you, but I have this wound, this like little Courtney wound. And when you did that, this is what happened. And I know that's scary. It doesn't feel good at first. But on the other side, it's whole and there's healing. But you have to let your spouse, who is the sacred place, this is the holiest of holies, come close to you and show them your wounds. And God has a way of using your spouse to come in, sometimes with a little scalpel, sometimes with an alcohol pad.

You know what I'm saying? To like clean up the pus and all this stuff. And it's a, you have to be surrendered. You also have to have zero pride. Like you can't puff yourself up. You have to be like flat as a pancake to be like, I feel ridiculous for even saying this. Because there's been so many times where I'm like, babe,

I know I sound ridiculous, but I feel insecure about boom, boom, boom, what happens when we bring things to the light? Like it says confess your sins to one another and be healed. We just talked about this last night. Something about saying the truth and safe places. And that is the same for marriage. That's the same in deep relationships, in your counseling relationships. It's just saying those things in a safe place has a way of being able to complete it.

You know, where we get stuck. We get stuck in woundedness. We get stuck in our own narratives. And my goodness, when you get married, he has a narrative, and I have a narrative. He has a family culture. I have a family culture. God's hilarious. And he's like, and you guys are going to become, you are.

one, but you're going to become even more one. And how do you do that? I really believe it's through that. It's through resolving conflict that breeds intimacy. It's true. Because think about it, I feel closer to you when we go through that. I feel closer to a best friend when I'm like, hey, whoa, can I just be? And then there's like this, oh, I didn't mean to hurt you. Or, you know, and then you're like, oh, you're stronger that way. It's like the opposite of what your flesh wants to do. Your flesh is like, run, hide, put up a wall, wall of China, self-protect, self-protect, which I would be like, my gosh, like, definitely I was the self-protective prototype. And now I'm like, I'm just like, because you see the beauty on the other side now,

it's like you trust the process now. And that Christian and I have just been talking about that because we're not quite as far as long as y'all are about seven years in. And we're like, how do you guys got now? We have three. Yes, we have four and a half, two and a half, five and a half month. So all its years of heart. It's so sweet, so wild and so sweet, as you guys know.

But we were talking about just like what we've been through in the past seven years and kind of got thrown into the fire in a lot of things and had a lot of hard conversations and probably more counseling than a lot of young people do and all the different stuff. But we were looking at each other night and we were like, wow, like look at how far we've come and like where our relationship is at. And we were like, we didn't even expect to see this much, I guess like fruit you could say, this soon. Like we thought all this hard work, we'll see one day.

Like we knew that. But how sweet that we're already seeing it. And like the people that we are now were like so proud of because we're like, wow, we really worked to get here. We really worked hard to get here. And I'm like so thankful for that. And so yeah, you trust the process now. And now it doesn't feel so scary to open up and say things. and you know it might burn, you know it might hurt a little bit, but you're like, I know it's

going to make it better. And even like, this is funny, but the haircut thing, I know, I'm going back to the bob, but even that, like, to have a spouse where it's like you have such open communication that you can say those things? And I remember at one point in the journey of it, I was like, can I just be honest? I think it's because I'm scared. I'm going to be insecure. Like, I'm scared if I don't like it, then I'm going to be insecure about the way I look

and I don't want to feel insecure. Like, even like little stuff like that that you can talk to with your spouse and say, I'm just going to confess that. And I don't want to feel that way, but that's just the truth. And then they can speak truth over you. And it's just like a beautiful gift to have someone that you can be totally honest with and confess. That's not going to meet you with shame. You know, there is therefore no condemnation for those who are found in Christ Jesus.

So when someone understands that and goes, okay, I'm going to offer you grace, but also truth. I'm going to speak truth over your life. It's an amazing gift. So I love that you shared that. Okay, we're going back into the deep end because you said, once things are brought into the light, obviously it's exposed and freedom comes. You talk about how your life got thrown into the light at one point of your life with anxiety and overcoming addiction and stuff.

And I love how you share this part of your life because you were saying in the interview that I saw, you were like, there are so many like miracle stories that I have. I wish that could just be the thing everyone knew about me, but God's going to use this. And that seems to be the case oftentimes. Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, it's actually funny because I, I, that's like the first story that hits like a literal news headline is like your deepest shame and your sin. That was me too.

Fun times, right? So fun. But God is so good. Like he's so trustworthy. And so that story, I call it the burn the ship story because he wrote a song ending up about that season in my life that became an album. I didn't even realize it was you know that. No, because I remember getting the PR from Burn the Ships and I had like a moment. I literally went out, had a moment, and burnt the ship.

Like, I physically put the match on the ship. So that's crazy. Wow. That was birthed out of my story. Wow. Yeah. So in that season, obviously had a rare disease and healed, right? But I had emotional issues.

I had trauma. I had panic attacks. Like, my nervous system was broken, too. And I didn't know what to do with it. There weren't, like, conversations at that time, too. that was like, gosh, 2007. So, like, this wasn't like a conversation. And so I just felt like I had to deal with it.

And I felt shame for that. And I just kept trucking on and thinking it would go away. Doesn't go away. We get married. Oh, I would get up in the middle of the night and pace. And I would just, oh, gosh, just overcome with anxiety. And then, like, torment started coming in because it's mind, body, and spirit. And so at that time, like, he got super sick.

that re-triggered me because it was my deepest pain that I hadn't dealt with yet. And now my husband, I was so mad. I was so mad at God. I was like, how dare you? Like, yeah. I remember being in our bathroom being like, God, I was 18 and like I got a rare disease. And I felt like that was enough. That was enough suffering in my head. But no, we're going to add on the person you actually love more than yourself. And I was so triggered by it. And I was taking care of him too. So, like, I was a nurse doing all kinds of things and injections and all the things. And so that re-triggered me because even the smell of an alcohol swab, when you're that, like, PTSD, it was just like an open wound. I was bleeding out, like, emotionally, my spirit, just everything.

And I get pregnant with Jude, and you add that on. So I'm like a new mom. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm taking care of you. So I'm not really, like, I'm connected, but I'm not. I'm not that connected because I'm scared. Like I didn't know what I was doing. So just like, let's keep on some more pressure and trauma.

And then, you know, for King and Country's taking off, boom, you're just like, gosh, it's just so much. And then after that, he starts to get a bit better. I know he went back out on tour. I get pregnant again with Phoenix. And I get horrible morning sickness. Like, this is the straw. broke the camels back. And so I'm pregnant with Phoenix and I, I will never forget that feeling of being like, I am utterly broken. Wow. Like, I'm scared. I don't know what to do. But when I got

pregnant with him, I was taking these pills to help with the nausea and everything. And sometimes this prescription can bother your serotonin levels. It can kind of make you a little crazy. Like, Like if you already have anxiety issues and all this other or even slight depression, it will amplify that. And I didn't know that. But I was taking it. So I would take it to calm down. And then I would take more because it was like my only thing.

It felt it was my strong tower. It was my safety because I didn't feel safe. I didn't feel safe in my body. I didn't feel safe with you at that time because I was the caretaker. I didn't feel safe in the environments we were in. Oh my gosh. We'd be in arenas. And I'm like, oh my gosh.

Like get me out of here. Like just too much for the census. go to the mall, leave grocery stores. Anyone who's left a grocery cart at a grocery store because of your nerve system been there. And so I start taking more and more medicine. And the midwives don't, they don't really know. Like, they're not fully aware. They're just like, yeah.

And I was abusing it. I mean, I was abusing other things to calm me down too. But I was so not connected to myself that I didn't think it was wrong. I was surviving. Yeah. And so I was trying to keep. myself safe. And so there was a breaking point where I was like, I can't do this anymore. Like I was, I was starting to feel suicidal. I felt tormented, like literally tormented. Like the spirit of fear

is a real spirit. And it wants to take you out. And it was, it was real close. It was right there. And I couldn't. It's like, I don't know what else to do. Like this is like fighting for my life. And so I tried to get off the pills by myself. And that was awful because, you know, you have, like, you're shaking and anyone who's, like, detoxed from something like that. And Luke was in, he was at a show in Texas. And I called and I actually said, hey, I'm not okay. He didn't know fully I was doing that with pills. Like, I was, I was, yeah, it was all me. And I told him everything. I said, hey, I've been doing this. I need help.

I can't do this by myself. I'm scared. I feel suicidal. Like, I need you. I think I've never asked you to come home. I said, I need you to come home. And so I actually called one of my good friends, mentors. She was a counselor.

And I asked her opinion on what to do. And she knew of a rehab, a local rehab. And Luke came home. And that was one of the most humbling experiences. I had like, you know, I'm so pregnant with our second child at this point, with Phoenix. And like we're walking into the rehab center and you're like, this is the bottom. Like this, I've found the basement level. And, you know, you give them your keys and everything and you're just like, okay.

But at this point, you're so broken that you're like, you just, you're like, you just, just need help. And it was huge because I didn't ask for help up until that point in my life. I just never did. Starting something new is exciting, but it can also be pretty scary. Before I started low, I had all the what ifs. What if no one listens? What if I feel? What if I do? All this work, and it goes nowhere. And that's why having the right tools matter. And that's where Shopify comes in. Shopify is a commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world from major names you already know and love to brands you're about to fall in love with. For us, low runs on Shopify and my team loves how easy it is to make online sales. For managing products to handling orders,

everything just works the way you needed to. Shopify gives you tons of amazing templates to choose from, so building a beautiful online store to match your brand style is actually easy. Plus, with built-in AI tools for marketing and selling, you keep everything in one place so you're not juggling a million platforms. And that iconic purple shop pay button helps turn more cards into actual sales. And LO, online merch, and my family's business, Duck Commander, are both powered by Shopify. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash woe.

Go to Shopify.com slash woe. Again, that's Shopify.com slash woe. And I knew that there was something there of like, you just think you got to take it on and shove it down and keep going. and I was really good at that. Like, I would probably pride myself in that. Like, I can just keep going. And then, but you know what? God didn't ask that of me.

Yeah. And when I went into rehab, I found God's heart. And there were so many other believers there who felt shame for other things that they were there for. Wow. And I feel like God's heart

was not for me to stay in line and to be, to keep on heaviness. It was like, let him close to your broken heart. Why are you doing what you're doing? Because it's never about addiction. It's about longing. What are you doing with your longing?

What are you doing with it? I was longing for safety. And so that was my thing. Other people have other longings, and they're filling it through pornography, through gambling, through an eating disorder. It's all the same root. And so it was actually one of the most freeing things in my life.

Once I got out of shame and I got out of beating myself up and I just fully surrendered like, God, I can't make myself good. I can't make myself not sent. Like, it's not on me. Yeah. Like, I actually feel like I received grace in this season where I was like, it's not about my performance. It's not about me even sticking.

keeping everything together. That's not my job. And so I just surrendered everything. And in that season, it's funny because our child's name is Phoenix, which means rise up from the ashes. And we would do these sessions before we would break out in this rehab center. And they would say, I got to know everyone very well. And they would say Phoenix, may we rise up from the ashes too.

Wow. So I knew, I was like, I'm carrying Phoenix. I'm in my Phoenix season but we have to let it go to ashes for it to become beauty we have to let it all just let it die for it to resurrect like a lot of our problem is going halfway

for whatever reason we're scared we're ashamed we feel prideful like what will people think let it die let it burn because then God can do so much with it and so that season was like it was a long excruciating season

because there's miracles but then there's like the slow healing so like you have the counselors right you have the physical part of it that you're walking out there were insane miracles of like I used to have gosh more than eight panic attacks a day

and then the next day I didn't like there was fast miracles and then slow grueling walk out your healing and God is good in both and God was after my heart in both. He literally was like, I can do that here, but here I want you to know me. Like, it's all about knowing him. He's like, I want you to know me that I'm like a safe father to you

and that I want to mend every broken place. And sometimes that takes time. We want fast food healing, fast food miracles, fast food, everything. And God's like, we're going to simmer. We're going to simmer. here and it's actually his goodness to do that. And so in this season, Luke wrote a song called Burn the Ships, which talks, the bridge says, flush the pills, face the fear, feel the waves disappear, I'm coming clean, I'm born again, my hopeful lungs will breathe again. And it's talking about stepping into a new day, like burn the past. It's complete burning because we're not going to walk into the new if the old is still hanging there. Like it's just human nature. If we know it's there, we're going to go back.

So I had to get rid of everything in the house. There was a time where I was like, I got to get rid of everything. At that time, a lot tempted me is that get rid of Benadryl, get rid of anything that could just be a little hook, right? When you're just sensitive. And that can be different for so many people, but God honors that. He's like, you're all in. Like, you're going to actually do it. But you have to, because the flesh has to be disciplined.

Because the spirit wants to, but the flesh is weak. And so you have to, well, it says like, eat it into submission of like, you will obey Christ. You will not take those pills. Especially when you're like, like, literally you're just like, I want to. And I was detoxing. And you want to, but you will not. Yep. It's this thing that happens.

And so in that season, what was so cool, it was enough for God to heal me. It was enough for him to restore me and redeem me and a place in my life that felt like my greatest shame has become my greatest beauty, but then that he would make a song, and then we would see it multiplied. Wow. Like people, I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, you didn't, right? Like, he's so good and, like, to see people free. People are free. But it's the, it's the crushing that creates the oil. It's the crushing that creates the oil. So it's like, he's so good with our crushing, that he's like, and now we will just like spread it around. Because that's who, he's a god of multiplication.

Yeah. He didn't have to, though. So good. This is so helpful. This is so helpful. Like, I was going to say, walk people through how you come out of that. And then you were like, counselors, this, that. Like, you went through everything.

Mind, body, spirit. This pike has started from the heart of. We want to be a sister and a friend to those who don't have one. And that was the most ultimate sister and a friend moment to share. with everyone listening what it looks like to really go through those hard trials. And there are, and God can still be, God is still good and he is good in the fast miracles and the slow processes. And everything that you're saying is so true to the character God when you read the word. I just got through Joseph's story too. And I was just thinking about like it's the ultimate

what you meant to harm me. God actually intended for our good. And then it says so that to provide life for us. So he's talking to his brothers who are scared that he's going to now turn, they're back on them now that the father died and he might not give them food and everything. He's like, no, no, no, I don't have to take this out on you. There's no revenge. There's nothing needed. Like, what y'all meant to harm me, God actually intended for my good and for life to be preserved. And not only did God mean that for their family, but like for this nation, you know?

And then you think about even the symbolism and the names and the meanings. And like, that's the same God. And your story is the same God in all of our stories. Like, Phoenix and this and that. what he did in your life and now the world is burning ships. And it's like, it's so cool to see the same God in the Bible in our life today. Like, it's the most amazing thing. And we see that when we testify. And so many people are scared to testify because they're scared of the shame that comes with it. But like you said, like, there's no shame on that. Like, I was dead and I'm alive.

Like, I was lost now I'm found. Like, I'm celebrating what God has done. And said, thank you for sharing your story. That was beautiful. I want to ask lastly, because y'all do have this new song and there was a song with that. What is it like at the end or maybe even in the middle of these tough seasons of life? What does that like to write a song about it? Like does that help? Is that like therapy to you? Does it help overcome something? Is it saying we're looking back on this now and this is what God did like stealing a moment? What is that like? Yeah. So I'll tell you just a brief story about when we nearly lost our son, we had this small little cabin and there was a porch and I was kind of just sitting on the porch and I was just kind of

crying out to God I was like God I see you know so you take me getting sick you take this story you take Leo and this all happened in about four years time you know and so some of these things like my my sickness kind of took up a year and a half of our life this situation you know it takes time to work through these things then we've got the so it just felt like one hit after another one hit you know just kind of like whoa and so I was kind of going and even actually had a sibling kind of come to me as like well how do you handle this one? And I was, you know, at the moment, you're kind of like, can you ask a different question? Yeah.

But what I realized was, is I was sitting on the couch, so on the porch, and I was just praying, I was like, God, I don't actually know how to deal with this. I don't know how to, I don't know why the hits keep coming, you know. And I felt God say, and look, you know, sometimes you can get into, was it really God speaking, was it really? But I think that, you know, as long as we qualify, like what I think God was speaking to me in that moment was, I felt him say, Luke, these stories reflect my faithfulness and goodness in your life. So go tell them.

Wow. And so when it comes to songs, I'm not like, there are certain songs that are off limits maybe, you know, certain stories that it's like, this is just our family stuff or this is just ours. There's certain things. But I think that God gives you testimonies to share them. And so I kind of just made a decision, you know, on that porch that was like, God could have my stories, you know? And so those stories become songs, you know, ever and ever before was a song that we, our engage anniversary is February 13th. And so on February 13th, I sung, oh, I love you, oh, I love you more than ever before.

And it felt significant because we're sitting there on an anniversary, kind of like a big moment. And you're starting to reflect on 15, 16 years. And you go, can I make that statement? Is that actually true? Yeah, it's true. Well, then, you know, with everything that people know about, you know, not everybody knows these stories, but if they hear these stories and you can get to the end and say, oh, I love you more, more than ever before, that speaks to covenant.

That speaks to a love sustained. And the hope is, and, you know, for anybody that's watching, like the hope is that our marriages reflect, once again, the goodness and faithfulness of who Jesus is. when you know the true love of who Jesus is, it makes sustained love in marriage that much easier because you're seeing it lived out in who Jesus is and who God the Father is and who the Holy Spirit is because sometimes it feels too much.

Sometimes it feels too hard. But when you know how dearly loved you are by someone else, it oftentimes gives you the model to love the ones that are closest to you, to love your spouse. And so I think that's always been the hope is to, you know, It's a love song. But it's, the love song is talking about, in some cases, a far greater love than we can ever comprehend. That's so good. Oh my gosh, this is so, so good, y'all. It's so helpful. This podcast, I say this sometimes when I'm sitting here and I'm like, wow, God,

thank you so much for allowing us to have these conversations because it's not just a podcast. Like, this is going to change someone's life. And the word says that. Like, the enemy's going to be defeated by the blood of land and the power of our testimony. And so there are people who are this podcast right now. This is going to be the start of a life change. And I just encourage those who are listening. Don't let this just be a podcast you listen to and you say, oh, that was good. Okay, maybe one day I'll get help. Like today, call a friend. Call, like Courtney Dech. That's the first time I ever called him and said, I need help. Like call the friend today, reach out to a counselor today, go to a pastor today. Don't let this just go by because freedom is on the other side,

hope is on the other side, certainty. And you're going to know God so much more than you ever have when you actually decide to dive in and get to know him in that personal way. So thank y'all for sharing your story. Thank you for being real. Y'all are the realest deal. And your success makes so much sense. I'm so thankful that God has elevated y'all to the platform that you have so that the world can see such a beautiful family, such a beautiful picture of family and God's faithfulness.

So y'all are amazing. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you.