WHOA That's Good Podcast - How to Be Authentically Who You Are EVERYWHERE | Sadie Robertson Huff & Christian Huff

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

Sadie and Christian are joined by Dr. Josh Kirby — a psychologist, life coach and the co-author of their new book, "How to Put Love First" — and what starts as a conversation about some big themes turns into a mini counseling session! Christian confesses his perfectionist tendencies but is it being a perfectionist or just wanting to be comfortable? Sadie has a strategy for suffering anxiety less in day-to-day life. And they all discuss what community and relationships WITHOUT trust would look like. Plus, are you REALLY an open book like you might claim? You can get a copy of their new book here: https://bit.ly/3PYixMk https://liberty.edu/Sadie — Get your application fee WAIVED when you start your future with Liberty University today! https://www.kiwico.com/SadieRob — Get your first month FREE on any crate line and inspire a love for learning in your child! For a limited time, new customers can get 18 free meals from Home Chef. Just go to http://www.homechef.com/whoa - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up friends, happy Wednesday everybody. Welcome back to the world. That's good podcast. Y'all, I am so excited if you are not watching this. I have a co-host today, which is her best friend me. Christian Huff in the house. And we're so excited. We get to interview Dr. Josh Kirby who happens

to be family and who happens to be the amazing counselor who wrote in our new book How to Put Love First. We are so excited if you haven't picked up the book you can get anywhere books are sold and Josh's had so much good practical sound advice that he put in this book that I just think was such a crucial part of the book. So we're going to get to know him a little bit more and get some more advice out of him today. So Josh thank you for joining us on the podcast. Thanks for having me. We're pumped. Well, would we all be considered co co authors? Yes. What? Co double co. Double co authors. Double co-authors. Double co-authors.

Well, I had to say Josh was really the reason we kind of wrote this book because people have asked me in Christian in the past like, you all should do a relationship book, you should write a relationship book. And honestly we just felt way too unqualified to write a relationship book. Maybe even a little bit too immature to write a relationship book. I mean, we have a great marriage. We've almost been married for four years. We have two awesome kids, but we look at people who have been married for 25 years, 30

years, 40 years even, our grandparents, and we're so inspired by their relationships, and we're always asking them their relationship advice. So we were like, do we have that good of advice to give? And it was really cool because during that time of kind of thinking through that Josh, you had texted me and said, you know, I would love to do a book together. I have some of these ideas of a relationship book and you were just kind of encouraging me that I'm so vulnerable with people and real with people sharing my real life experience and you as a marriage and family counselor who really set with couples and have so much

actual practical advice in the area could kind of tie in some wisdom along the way to my opening on to see about relationships. And I thought, you know, that's actually a really good idea. I think that kind of would add a great amount of maturity, practical advice, spiritual advice. And so that is kind of what led us to being where we're at today.

So thank you for that encouragement. Yeah, absolutely. I remember that well. And, you know, I think I'd originally reached out before you'd even met Christian. Yeah. And, you know, the idea of it being a book about, you know, broader relationships, not just, you know, intimate relationships, romantic relationships. But obviously God had a plan for you to meet Christian first and to step into parenthood and marriage and kind of season yourself a bit.

Sure, sure. You know, before putting a relationship books to get booked together. It's pretty cool. What it is cool to, because it really, this book is a broader view of relationships. And so, that hard did say the same. Christian, do you want to ask Josh the question of the podcast to get us started? I was just about to ask that. You know, I certainly have to intro my question,

but I appreciate the intro. And with that being said, I will ask the infamous question, what is the best piece of advice that you've ever been given? Haha. Haha. I wonder how many people come on the show not knowing you're gonna ask them that.

Oh, you can always tell. You can always tell when they don't know, because they're like, oh my gosh, that is a big question. Right, it's probably the guests that are doing so many podcasts, you know? Oh yeah, totally. And they're not going, oh, wait, yeah, this one.

I love it. So I did think about it. Of course, I've been given a lot of advice over the years from a lot of different people. But what moment of getting advice stands out to me that I can actually go back to that moment of receiving it and then seeing it kind of resonate over the years and The advice was from my mom Who is also a counselor and I decided to go back to grad school to get a master's degree in

psychology kind of as a second career. And I kind of it was a second career. And so I had been living in Nashville Tennessee as if people don't know what state Nashville. For about six and a half years, and I was in the corporate world, and I decided to go back to school, and I was going to get my master's at Pepperdine in Los Angeles. And so I sold all my stuff, basically, loaded up my car, and I drove across the country. I had this embedded social life, and basically left everything to start over. And I remember I'm driving somewhere through New Mexico or something like that. And I'm on is kind of keeping me company along the way. And we're talking about this journey. I'm about to step foot in.

And she said, and well, we'll back story, she started her PhD at 50. So she had kind of gone down this road a little later than I was for sure, but had some wisdom in that. And she said, keep your head down and focus on the goal of getting through this. And at the time, I thought I wanted to get a PhD, which it ultimately did. She said, keep your focus on the goal. You are gonna take in so much information over the next two to six years,

it ended up being six with the master's of PhD. You're gonna take in so much information and you're gonna wanna chase so much of it cause it's all gonna be new and fascinating. But keep focused on where you're going. It're going. But here's the advice that she shared that was most important. She said, what will stick? What needs to stick will stick. And I got iterations of that advice over time along the way where people would say, Hey, because I'm a dreamer, I'm an idea, you know, guy, just hold on, stay

in this season, you know, whether that was, you know, learning academically or where I started my counseling, just stay where you're at right now. Because there's so many rabbit trails you can go in. Where I think that advice really resonates for me, because I've thought about that over time, is like, that's the advice that I probably did receive, but that's the advice that I wish I would have received at 15. When I came to know Christ in an intimate way, but then I saw that's what was happening the whole time. All these variations, all these rabbit trails, all this new information I'm taking on,

not just in this graduate school pursuit of a career in psychology, but that the Lord leads you in a path. And there's going to be all this stuff that distracts. Right. But at the end, what needs to stick, right, is going to stick. It's great. Right, God is going to put that on your heart.

He's gonna lead you in that direction. And I thought, so I've thought back on that many times about that advice and remember getting that. I love that. I love that so much. And actually it makes me think of something, Christian and I have been kind of walking through. And I'll unpack

this in full probably one day on the podcast that won't go there now. But I had this dream since I was like 18 to do, do this thing. And when I met Christian, I told him about the dream and then he kind of started helping me with the dream and again, never really shared this publicly so it won't go there yet. But throughout the years, there have been just pursuing this thing, have been so many different ideas that have come and gone and have chased the rabbit trails. Or maybe it can be this, maybe it can be that.

Or now I'm into this. So let's add this to the dream and then numb into that. And then some of those things have died off and some of those things have stuck. And now we're kind of at the point in our life where I guess since I've started dreaming about this, it's been like eight years and all of a sudden it's kind of starting to form like we're actually maybe stepping into what I've kind of been pursuing for a really long time and I think about that

advice in my all life I'm like man I'm so true like the things that were supposed to stick stuck and not to even be like, I think sometimes, you know, you can go down the trail of like, you're embarrassed that the things I didn't stick didn't stick because you feel like, oh, I told people about that or, oh, I was super excited about that or I feel like you can feel like in those areas, maybe it can be perceived that you gave up on it or that it didn't work out because you weren't smart enough or whatever it is. You can be insecure about the things that didn't stick, but I think that those things didn't stick for a reason because that's not really what it was supposed to be and that's not

the thing that God really put in you to do. Maybe that's for someone else to do. And so I've had to over the years of this stream and inviting people into it, like learn to just humble myself and know that like there were moments of the dream that thought it was this and I thought it was that and I was wrong and I just had to get back to the on track. And so I just love that you should like because that's super relatable in my life. And there's a lot of just grace for the journey in life as you go down and

you're getting all these different things at you and opinions and things can be exciting and pull you this way, things can be disappointing and pull you that way. But keeping your head down and knowing that what is meant to stick as going to is great, great advice. I want to ask you because people, you know, if they've read the book already, then they've seen your work. But people might not know who you are in full. So I want to ask you because people, you know, if they've read the book already, then they've seen your work But people might not know who you are in full. So I want to ask you a little bit about who you are in your relationship Sad is because I have to say on Instagram when we went live we're getting comments and I did see this thrown out there I don't know if you saw this one, but I saw Dr. Hottie and I was like, oh no, this dude's married

a doctor, and I was like, oh no, this dude's married. He's married to a beautiful woman with three kids. And, but you actually were single for a while. I know that was something you desired to get married, but you were a little bit older when you got married. Tell a little bit about your journey to your own relationship. I know some of you out there have some big dreams. I hope you do. I hope you have big dreams and you're there have some big dreams. I hope you do.

I hope you have big dreams and you're ready to go for it. We all have big dreams, fam. Liberty University is here to help you achieve them. Their mission is training champions for Christ, which is a mission I can definitely get behind. With over 600 degrees to choose from, as well as offering classes that are 100% online with eight start dates a year, Liberty can help you achieve your goals. Their online classes have no set log-in times and eight weeks subterm so it's super flexible. Not only is it flexible, it's also super affordable. Liberty's tuition rates are on the top third

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Liberty University, my brother. Actually, both my brothers went to Liberty. In person, my sister is about to graduate here in the next month from their online program. I even took classes for Liberty first semester. And even with that busy schedule, it was pretty doable for me, which was awesome because it's that Monday to Monday, no set log in times, which is awesome. So if you're wanting to further your education, look no further, this is awesome. So maybe you're interested in attending in person and you want to check out Liberty's amazing campus for yourself. They've got you, fam Liberty hosts college for a weekend events four times a year, which are open to all transfer students as well as juniors and seniors in high school.

College for a weekend lets you spend a few days on campus learning everything you need to know about life at Liberty. The next dates are November 9th through 11th. So go ahead and register online or call the admissions office at 800-543-5317 to pay your registration fee and get signed up. I know you're going to love it. Liberty's campus is absolutely stunning. I've been there several times. So visit Liberty.edu-saturday to get started. And because you're a boy that's going to buy Castle of Sinner, you're going to get your application fee waived. Hey, yo, you're welcome. Friend, don't wait. Go to Liberty.edu-saturday now and make this year the year that you pursue your dreams. [♪ music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music home. So in our family, you might as well be in the grave. So I'm half kidding there.

But obviously I came out of, you know, our family system and into college, kind of with the idea, I certainly was not seeking, you know, marriage. I mean, I think part of my story is I've got to kind of try things the hard way first, at least part of my past story. But I didn't come out in my early 20s seeking that type of relationship. Fast forward, I would say probably into my late 20s, 27, 28 was probably when I started to think about singleness and a way of You know, I guess what a lot of people say is I feel like I'm ready now. I

Was not ready God had a lot of work to do right and so what I think I tried to do was I tried to find the right girl. And I know you've spoken with people so many times about this, that's just not the way it works. And so there were rabbit trails that were not fruitful. There were rabbit trails that I hoped would be fruitful that did not turn out that way, not knowing where this was all headed. But when I moved to Dallas to get my doctoral degree, I was 33, I was single, it was a new move. I'd obviously just moved from Los Angeles where, in Los Angeles, you know, being 32, 33 is kind of normal to be single. Dallas, probably somewhere in the middle.

And I moved here and I was kind of back in this place that I was in in my early 20s where I wasn't seeking, seeking. I was at a place where I was so focused on graduate school. I was focused on growing in the areas that I needed to grow in. And I really fell into this place going into my mid-30s where I still believed that God had marriage for me. And I was still doing a little bit of rabbit trailing here and there, just at a different stage. But I fell into that place that I know is possible for people that have elongated seasons

of singleness, which is, if this is where God has me, this is where He has me. And my involvement in Christian community, my involvement in service in the church, started to become more of my life. I started to feel a sense of fulfillment in my life. I was still trying to undo some of the relational patterns I had developed over the years. But when I met Kristen at 36, it was then just about getting out of kind of my own way, if you will. Saying, you're here, you're here. You've met this person that giving you all the signals that she can be the partner, that God has for you.

And I remember sitting in a small group with the guys from my church and one of the guys in that group is a lifelong friend from Monroe, West Monroe, been known him since he was five years old. And he looks at me and he was, in the same boat dating someone, he was 33, 34 at the time. And he just looks at me and he was, it's in the same boat dating someone, he was 33-34 at the time. And he just looks at me and he's like, what are you doing? Like, what's keeping you from taking that next step?

And he had been someone that had been an ear and a voice for me over the previous couple of years as we had navigated that singleness and our thirgies together. And I just heard it differently that time. You know, I just heard it differently. I'm saying, this is good, step into it. And it's what I knew, it's what I knew. And then once that decision is made, I'm sure that you felt that in y'all's relationship. Once that decision is made,

I'm now going to step that Niels relationship. Once that decision is made is, I'm not gonna step into this to protect her, to grow a relationship, right, and to move toward marriage. Yeah. Things just start happening. It's all- It just start happening, so.

And here you are with three kids, just recently welcomed a little girl into the picture. She's beautiful. So that's awesome. I wanna dive into a little bit of the stuff that you wrote in the book that's just so good. I know Christian Particularly was impacted by What you wrote on perfectionism because I know you can struggle with that a little bit So you want to talk about that a little bit? Well, I do I struggle with it a lot actually

I'm going to be completely honest, but I love you know the subheadings called God's perfection and our imperfection and It's so easy to know and to be because I'm it's one of the things I'm hyper aware of Like how messed up and and imperfect I am but yet still I strive so much to do things like in a perfect way Because I am a perfectionist and I think in a perfect way, because I am a perfectionist. And I think, you know, I think maybe the underlying thing obviously would be probably control your account slurs. You can correct me at any point if I say something dumb. But yeah, I mean, I think that, you know,

the wanting to control things, I think, you know, I think a lot of it for me is the justice side of things too. I'm a one on the anygram. So a lot of it's like perfectionism. And it's not even necessarily, yeah, wanting to be done right. It is less like, you know, the bed has to be made perfect every day. Like if the pillows, you know, slightly slanted, it drives me crazy. It's more just, you don't really have that perfect.

Yeah, I'm not, I'm not that perfectionistic. But it's, yeah, I like things to run efficiently. And I like things to be done the way I wanted to be done, which yes, is probably not the best thing ever. But, you know, I love that you talk about so many people that come in to meet with you are labeled themselves as perfectionists, and I really relate to that. Why do you think that such a prevalent thing, we all strive to be perfectionists, but we all are so deeply flawed and we are actually imperfect. Why do we strive so much to try to achieve that, knowing that we really can't ever get there?

The age-old question. So in counseling and psychology, the answer is always it depends. You know, so Christian and Adelaide, we're going to have time to date, unpack everything in your mind. And since you're a one, since you're a one, we'd have to have a lot of iterations of that, right? And when I say that, age old question is that, and why I put this in the book, is that, you know, some people like yourself and a lot of my clients that come in

that are high performing, successful individuals, or parents are wherever they're at in life, are saying, I'm such a perfectionist, right? I drive myself crazy, right? But, you know, to what you were saying, like, that's inherent to all of us and the point in the book, is that we are meant to be able,

we're meant to recognize our imperfection. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. It is so imperative that we recognize that our imperfections, right, are, well, it's you ever read the book by Brunet Brown gives them imperfection? No, but I love it.

I know if you've ever read that. I'm not a couple of Brunet Brown books, then I love them. Right. And the idea is that our wholeness or wholeheartedness, right holistic sense of self, comes from acknowledging our imperfections. They'll believe that the Christian idea of that, the godly idea of that, is that it's just a reflection back on God. Yeah.

And I'll tell you in my personal life, and I see this with clients, that when we get to that place in life, or when we learn how to incorporate this, this is how I kind of say it with my clients, when we give ourselves permission to not be perfect, that doesn't mean we don't want to do it well. That doesn't mean we don't want certain things to have a level of perfection. We give ourselves the permission to not have to pursue that day after day. It's like a weight comes off of you.

To be able to go, oh, wait, wait, wait, okay. My mind is, you know, a mile ahead of the rest of me, right? Slow it down. Okay. Right. the rest of me. Slow it down. You talked about chasing rabbit trails on ideas. I think that's the part is you otherwise you just get too far down the rabbit trail. Then you're in that place that you talked about which is embarrassment and you're going, why did I even go there? Then embarrassment starts to sink in and you don't want to try the next idea.

and then the embarrassment starts to sink in and you don't want to try the next idea. Yep. Yep. So a typical day in the Huff House is looking like this. Haven wakes up early. She's a little early riser because she's her baby, but not even that early. Like she's like a 737-45 baby and then honey sleeps late.

She's like a 930 wake up time. And so it's been kind of sweet because I get that morning time with Haven and it's great because she's just not getting in the toy, she's just now like noticing things, grabbing things, so it's been really, really sweet times and sometimes it can be a little bit tough to keep the girls, you know,

stimulated and engaged especially because they both like to be active now, but that is why I am loving KiwiCo. It is absolutely amazing. It's a subscription for kids that encourage brain building through screen free play with nine different subscription options. They have something for every kid. And since Honey and Haven are little, we got KiwiCo's PandaCrate, which is designed specifically for

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all the little mirror that it came with to see yourself in. So this has been so into just the visuals of things all the little black and white cards all the little The little mirror that it came with to see herself in so this has been awesome for her age And that's kind of like the hardest age for me of finding things for them to do and Kiwi Co has been my Solution for all of that also my mom gets Kiwi Co for the older cousins like John Shepard and Zane and the Projects are so cool. They have like math and science involved but you wouldn't even know it. It's just actually fun but it's teaching them. So KiwiCo offers creases for all ages from newborns to teenagers and it makes a great gift.

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For your kids, your first month for free at KiwiCo.k-i-w-i-c-o-o. Dotcom slash Sadie Rob. Go check it out today and have a blast playing with your kids. I think sometimes too, for me at least, because I can even, a lot of times it's not even necessarily inherently perfectionism within myself. I think a lot of it can be like outside situations.

And I really think, I'll honestly, I kind of was just thinking about this one. I know I was just sitting here. But I think a lot of it kind of stems from, I think like a certain level of comfortability. Like I can think of, you know, if we're having a night at the house and it's just the forbust or something, I can find myself, you know, if Haven goes down perfectly

and it doesn't make a peep and she goes down and Honey takes a bottle and she's going to sleep and we're watching a family, like I can look at those things and be like, that would be the idea of perfect. But a lot of it's not really realistic, you know, and I think a lot of it kind of just is me wanting to be comfortable of, okay, honey went to bed, she's not crying, I'm not having to convince her that, you know, her little room is safe and she's going to be all the things

and haven't, you know, didn't have a blowout before bed and X, Y and Z. That's more realistic. You know, so I'm saying I think a lot of it because I am perfectionist with myself. This is rare to be called. But a lot of it, yeah, a lot of it desire, I think a lot of the desire is just a comfortability. And I think I can, because I do think sometimes you can convince yourself to get to that level of comfortability things have to be perfect.

And that means putting unrealistic expectations on other people, not only just you trying to make yourself be perfect. What it makes me think of though, I love that your Santa is like the verse. I'm going to talk to you about like, peace at surpasses all understanding. I think in moments like that, it's knowing that, okay, if things are not perfect or if I'm not comfortable, like I can still maintain. It doesn't affect my behavior.

I can still have pieces of personal understanding. I can still have joy as a strength, even whenever my life doesn't look like something that should produce joy. And I think that's where it's like, I mean, to how to put love first, why it's important that God is first and that relationship is first is that when other relationships outside of your relationship with God are not going great, our things are not perfect and our daughter does have a blowout on the other ones, having them out down and everything it's like, but they're still joy in me and they're still peace in me because like my relationship with the Lord is sustaining me to not flip out, to not cry, to not have

these emotions based off of my circumstances, but really maintaining who I am because of like Christ and me. I love what you wrote in the book. I'm just going to read this paragraph. I think it's so good. You say, when we get stuck in life and feel we are not making progress, we may even begin to compare our efforts and results with those others, with those of others or the unrealistic expectation that have formed within us, that can breed fear in us, fear that we will not be enough or will not receive approval or love if we fail to meet the highest standards.

I love this part. You said, I made a mistake becomes I'm a failure. It's simply to make sense of who we are and the tension between our imperfections and God's perfection can lead us to lose temporary perspective of our eternal purpose. And I love that so much because I've seen you walk through this and I'm going to get some myself too. But I've seen you walk through this where it's like I made a mistake But I made a mistake oftentimes becomes I'm a fella almost every time almost every time for him It's like can be the smallest thing. It's like I'm a failure I'm stupid. I'm an idiot and it's like all this like talking Oh, so so recently I'm telling him you need to speak life over your self Christian

But I've been getting really good at it for the person like like Christian, and this always happens, every time we've had a counselor on the show, we end up getting counseled. But for the person like Christian, who does jump to that, like my imperfection equals, I'm an idiot, I'm a failure, I'm stupid. Like when you have that moment, I messed up. What advice do you have for that person to not start going down the trail of just extreme shame and speaking words or theirself like that? Besides saying, I am Christian, I am strong, I am brave, I am a patient man. Yeah, I'm kind of, cannot, cannot dabble into the, the, the psychology of what he's

talking about? Yes. First, Christian, I think you're nailing it, which is saying, I think that's that sense of control and being comfortable, that's motivating that. Right. And so a minute ago, as I get to imperative that we understand that we're imperfect, it's the same thing. It's imperative to realize that we're not fully in control. Yeah. And that's what you're touching on there is, it's rooted in the neuroscience of our bodies and our emotions

in our brain, is that we're hardwired, deep down, to protect against threat. right, deep down to protect against threat. Right. And that's, you know, theologically, I would say it's since the fall of man, that's how that's gone. Yeah. To protect against threat as opposed to living this open, vulnerable state, where there is no threat. Right. So once threat enters the world and threat enters our world, which is like moment three in a baby's life. That's like someone's not holding me or you're doing, you know, feeding me like I'm, I'm, there's threat now, right?

We're hardwired to protect. That is inherent to protection, right, is operating in a less fearful or less protective state takes work. Yeah. You know, just like we talked about, you know, love takes practice. Yeah. And so to answer your question and kind of speak to Christian, right, one, to be able to recognize when I start to, whatever you do, whenever that plan, the spit up or the tantrum or the whatever it is, doesn't go to plan, right, that you have this sense of yourself that, oh, here I am again. I'm in this place where it didn't go to plan. And counseling we call it like a window of tolerance.

We want to open that window. We want to get this space between this stimulus, if you will, and this response. Uh oh, threat to my system. I'm trying to get to comfort, trying to get to comfort, right? In this space that then allows me to respond in a way that's more flexible, right? Because what I'm hearing from you, especially in the, if we're gonna use the anyogram, like the anyogram one, right, that sense of wanting to figure out where the imperfection is, that provides that sense of security within you. You're likely always gonna be hardwired to protect or to hold things in place by having that plan. And so it becomes instead of kind of being dominated

more in a chaotic way, which may be someone else's organization, right? You move more toward rigidity. Is that fair? Yeah, holding it together. Which is a beautiful personality trait when it's disciplined and it's planned out and it's open to the feedback of others.

When it's just you trying to create the perfect scenario all the time, who ends up feeling kind of crazy in that, it's you. I'm Sadie, I'm sure you don't feel crazy at all when he's trying to hold to the plan. No, for sure. Yeah, I sure do love meal time because I love a good meal, but meal time can be stressful. I know it can be so hard to make family meals happen when everyone has a full day of work. You got school going on, you got sports, church, all the things, and that is where Home Chef comes in. Homestep offers a huge selection of delicious meals that arrive at your doorstep with fresh,

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so easy and so convenient. I love that. And Christian and I prefer sometimes to be a little bit healthier and they have that. They have all kinds of options like calorie conscious, carb conscious, vegetarian, keto friendly and family friendly. Their keto options have 30 grams of protein and less than 15 grams of net carbs.

So I know my keto friends out there are going to be loving that. Plus whether you're vegetarian or flexitarian, Home Chef offers 7 meatless meal options every week. Home Chef's new family menu makes those meals so easy and they're also affordable at just $3.77 per meal. They are super affordable. These four serving recipes are full of family-friendly flavors that even the pickiest eaters at your table will love. We've had a great experience with home shop like I said, it's just so easy and so nice whenever you literally get your meal

to your door, but you're still good to cook because I do like to cook, but sometimes I'm like, I'm gonna have to go through a recipe book, I'm gonna have to go to the grocery store so it's nice because you have this recipe to follow and you have all your ingredients and then you get to cook in your own kitchen so it's actually really fun and if you want it to be easier and you don't want to cook like I said they have the oven ready and microwave friendly options as well so for a limited time new customers can go to HomeChef.com, slash woe, for 18 free meals. Y'all hear me say that one more time,

go to HomeChef.com slash woe, for 18 free meals, don't miss that, that's wo-w-h-o-a, homechef.com slash woe. I think Sadie understands it most of the time, but I just had this thought, and I guess it doesn't really apply to what you just said, but maybe kind of. But like for instance, if I'm gonna go get food somewhere,

and on the maps, it says, they open at 9 a.m., or they open at 8 a.m., right? And I show up and on their doors, it says open at 9 a.m., I just, I lose my mind. I'm like, it is not that difficult, you know? And say to it, say to it, it's be like, oh well, it's okay, I'll my mind. I'm like, it is not like, it is not that difficult, you know, and say to it, say to it, be like, oh, well, it's okay. I'll just go somewhere else. And I'm like, no, I'm like, no, no, you know, like I just,

I sometimes I'll call someone and I'll just say, hey, you have to fix this. But sometimes I just let it go. And I'm like, you know what, this is okay. This is, sometimes I need a little, sometimes I need to throw a little wrench in the plans every now, then just to help my patients.

Well, and in my mind, my non-counseled vice-secretion is always like, if you just live in that state of putting that expectation even on people that they have to uphold this perfectionism. Like really, it's like you said, like who feels crazy? You, who loses you because you will just constantly be frustrated if your, you know, contentment of the day relies on people doing their job or

rather people responding in a perfect way of people doing which thankfully you've never put the expectation on me. You're very gracious to me. But just with restaurants opening and different people do their job and the way that a parking lot is formed and all the things is just this expectation on society and people. I just love to do things like the way that you would have done them. But what I always say to you is like, I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done like that. I think that's a great idea and that

would be amazing if people showed up on time. But if that is that expectation on people was ultimately just crippling you, you know, that's just gonna make you frustrated. And so anyways, like I love what you're saying. You're just recognizing that that skill set and that gifting can be a great gift when it is done in a Healthy version of that and that is like a cool tool of the Enagram is like there's an unhealthy of everything and there's a healthy of everything and so it's like the one in its Unhealth struggles with dot dot dot but in health, look at how much of a strength, just like for me, I'm a six on the anyogram. So it's like in its unhealth,

I definitely struggle with all of that, like security issues, like I wanna feel secure, I wanna feel safe, I need to feel this, but in my health, I'm a loyal friend and you know, and strong in that, very open in relationship and so I noticed that and it's actually where I wanted to go next I told you I would get to my stuff too but in the last chapter of the book the last section of the

book we talk about community and one of the words I recognize you using a lot within talking about community was the trust it takes to actually live in community with people And I don't think that like everybody thinks about it like that But I think about it like that and I think that's because I have struggled with trusting people because I've of course been hurt But people are just like we all have and I think that like you and it comes up in a lot of scenarios like the other day We were having to make this call for one section of L.O. where we are going to have to have a label help us out to grow it. And basically in the past working alongside of labels or things like that have typically not gone great for me.

have typically not gone great for me and it's been difficult. And so even though these people are amazing and they are so awesome, I was like, I had to finally say to my friend, I just need to acknowledge that my fear is not because of them, what they're awesome, it's really my past and what I've experienced in the past and I'm putting on them because it looks the same, you know? And I think a lot of people do that

within friendships and community. It's like because they've been hurt in the past by a friend, they no longer want to have any friends or because they've been hurt by this group, they're scared to go to that group. People do it with church because they were hurt by that church, they no longer want to go to any church.

And so when it comes to putting yourself in community, obviously it does take trust. Like it does take opening yourself up. What would you say the obviously that what are the benefits of doing that? And what do you risk by not opening yourself up to trusting community and stepping into relationships. Well, I'm glad you mentioned kind of the underlying motivation behind, you know, what often keeps people from stepping in, which is they've experienced hurt. And so, you know, our brains and other anticipatory machines, that's how we're able to drive a car without going oh put my right hand On 10 and my left hand to you know kind of thing I guess it be left hand on 10

That's that's how we can do that right. It's muscle memory right and we kind of do that even Relationally Because otherwise we'd be kind of robots right we need We need to have some fluidity to, you know, interacting and so You create that that anticipation of what that experience will be like and what happens your mind your body your Emotions all of it kind of organized and just starts avoiding or Producing these narratives or stories about what will happen or the opposite.

You suppress that all down and then you step into, I hear this a lot, this someone will come to counseling and they'll be like, I'm an open book. And then once we get past about the first 20 minutes, it's like the book shut. past about the first 20 minutes, it's like the book shut. Because they're so used to about 20 minutes of throwing that elevator speech about themselves out there because it allows them to connect quickly, that it doesn't allow them to connect deeply. And so they kind of come out and they're super social or they've got a prepackaged version of themselves, but they're not quite or, you know, they've got a prepackaged like version of themselves, right? But they're not quite sure how to show up fully. Yeah. Shoot, I get that. I totally get that, you know, the community of believers and friends and family that you and I grew up in,

Sadie, I mean, I say it and I live in a town of seven million people. I say this all the time, it's, it was really unique. And Christian, imagine you've experienced that as you've moved there. I know you're from a smaller community as well. So maybe there was some similarities, but there's a uniqueness to it. You know, and I don't mean that just in the sense

of you saw the same people from church at the ballgame at Walmart. I mean, that was certainly true. But there was a deep intermingling of believers that I felt surrounded all the time. There's a goodness in that. But there's also the capacity to kind of just go along, right? And not think for yourself. As long as you stay within this system, right? And then you get out in the real world, right? And I talked a little bit earlier about rabbit trails.

And I mentioned to you the day when we spoke on the Instagram live about some of the way I would connect in early relationships, right? It is I was still wrestling through how I wanted to live out my faith on the other side of the security of what I grew up in. When I became more disengaged from Christian community, something that I had known deeply since birth essentially. I went from feeling like an insider like an insider to an outsider that couldn't be let back in. And as I started to kind of form a new path in my life, a new chosen and surrendered path in life with Christ

in my thirties, that really psychology, the study of psychology opened me up to. Really, I started to see God in studying the brain and see God in studying psychological theory. And then I started to hear teaching. You know, Christian, you had Matt Chandler on the other day on your podcast, and that dude's just, I mean, the best teacher of our generation to me. I would agree. And I started for sure. He's fantastic and you did a great job with him. Thank you.

I would go to the village church on Sunday morning, I hear this teaching and I'm just taking it in in this new way, right? But there was still this part of me that was saying, and I think I put it in the book that sometimes you feel like I'm not relatable or I can't step back into the church or I haven't been near the church enough. I remember when I started to get back involved in a local community church because when I moved to California that wasn't as much a part. I attended church, but there was as much community, and I came to Dallas and I'm trying to figure this out. And I remember the, when I first stepped in, I started serving in a ministry.

I started serving in a grief ministry. It's called grief share for people that have lost loved ones. And I remember the first night I walked in there. I was like, I got no business being here. I'm not good enough to do this. I, you know, they're gonna think I'm a fraud, but after about a week or two and we would step into the volunteer meetings,

not only did I realize I didn't have to think like that, I realized everyone else in there had thought that too. That's cool. And it was like, I'm amongst friends, we're all just trying to figure this out Yeah, we're just here to help care and pray and love on people that that are grieving right now Yeah, that's it. This is the only reason we're here And so that's what happens I think that you talked about the benefit Is that you you walk in and it's not about you go in there and there's like no you're gonna find that people are gonna

Love you because that's what people say. No, you've got a great personality. You're gonna take to people so fast. It's like, when you step into real community, it's not about that. It's about belonging. Yes. Right?

So that's my answer. It's great. I love that so much. I wanted to read this quote. I read it on Instagram live, but it was so good. And you said, we often talk about the highlights, the integral parts of our life, but you cannot post, smile, and filter your way to closeness.

And it's so real. I just love that's kind of what you're sharing. I wrote about this, and I think I wrote about it and who are you following, what I was talking about, the difference in being light and being loved. And so many of us, it's like we have such a desire. We truly have a desire to be loved, but sometimes we act like we just want to be light. And being light is so different than being love because you normally whenever you're just light, I mean, think about just Instagram, like someone likes your post. It's like you

kind of know deep down like they like me, but they don't really know me. And if they knew me, they might not actually love me and they might not even like me because it's not as filter just as, and it's not as pretty as it is, it's not as likable as this. But there's this beautiful thing whenever it's like, oh, you love me and you know me.

Like you've seen it all. You haven't just seen the filter inside all you haven't just seen the filtered side You haven't just seen the polished side like you've seen all of it and you still love me and like that's the power of being loved is that you're also fully known and they still chose to love you despite you being Unlikable at times and it's just a beautiful thing and I love how you mentioned that about like Some of us sometimes really oh yeah, we're an open book. And it's really just like our filtered version of our testimony or our filter version of what that looks like.

And man, I've experienced that so much. I remember there was a time where it's like I told my story so much. And I was like, that's really just like the story I've gotten so used to telling in front of people. And my life has always lived on camera. So it's like, I think people, you know, think I'm being over, I think I'm sharing all this with them. But it's really like layers to that. And I feel like over the past maybe two years or so, especially on this podcast, just kind of gotten rid of that. Like, no, this really is me. This really is what we're talking about. And what it's done for me and being totally authentically myself and probably more than

two years ago, it's probably been, I mean, at least since we got married that I've been very real and all the things, I feel like what it's done for me is it's freed me to just be me everywhere. I think used to, before we got married married probably like six, seven years ago, whenever I was, you know, known by a lot of people, but not really known by anyone, I had this fear that like, if they really knew me, then they wouldn't like me as much, or they would think maybe I'm a hypocrite, because I have some of these thoughts or feelings or insecurities. And, you know, when you're young, or even anytime, if you're just struggling with insecurities or maturity. You think like you have to be a certain way for people like present yourself in a certain way to be smart enough to be

saying what you're saying or to be schooled enough or whatever it is. And so I think I just lived in a lot of insecurities. And finally I was like, you know, I'm just going to be who I am because I feel like I'm scared, like one day, people are gonna find out whatever, and there's not even anything to find out, but there's just like this real side of me that I need to express. And once I started just like showing up who I am,

telling it how it is being authentic, like it just freed me in so many different ways in my life. I actually noticed I didn't have as much anxiety. I didn't, I mean, it really changed everything. And it's really cool for me because I can trust and know that the same person I'm being here is the same person people will meet when they see me anywhere. Like I get in the same conversation, you know, randomly meeting someone and just being authentically who you are in every different stage of your life and every different space that you walk in.

It's just such a gift to give yourself even and it's such a gift to give others who you're doing life with because ultimately like we all are image barriers of course we all have something to bring to the table. We all have a little bit of a different angle than what the next person in the room has and so walking in as an original is such a great gift. So I love it. You talked about that. I love that you wrote about that. Krishan, you have any, I know we've already gone 45 minutes. It's just crazy. Do you have anything else that you want to share talk about? I really don't. I mean, I think, you know, just from the book perspective,

if you're listening to this and you're like, why would I want to go by another lovey-w book about relationships? It is not that. It is a book about relationships in general. And yeah, I'm just really excited about it. Really, I've been saying some people tag us about doing the challenge with a friend or with a spouse or with a boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever. They had just really excited and I think Josh, I think you had so much practical stuff to so much of the maybe things that me and say to try to put language to. You put language to it from a philosophical perspective in from a deeper thinking perspective

which I think is really cool and yeah, I'm just really excited about this project. I think excited that people are going to pick it up and read about it and yeah more than anything we hope that it brings people closer to Jesus and I think that you helped I think you were the cherry on top to help us do that so just really grateful for you and just for your part in this book and I'm just really excited for people to go check it out. Nope. Josh, seriously, thank you for encouraging us to do this book. For speaking that years ago, before I even met Christian about doing a relationship book and then going along the journey with us and then even coming on this podcast and counseling us, we're like every time, every time we have a counselor on, we get counseled and, you

know, we do want to live our life in such a way that we are open with our lives So the other people who are listening in can learn because I know people are listening in who are just like Christian At the moment they make a mistake They're failure and they're stupid and then people are listening who are like me and they've been burnt in the past and they're scared to trust people and You know we ultimately believe that like What is that saying that people have in the church where it's like, your brokenness is like, welcome here. But we always say it's like, yes, it's welcome here, but you don't have to stay broken like there, there is a redemptive part of the story. Like there is hope for the future. There

is a God who can sanctify and make new and make right. And so we wanna get better, you know? And so thank you for helping us get better. And thank you for all that you do. And for writing and how to put love first. We appreciate you so much. Thanks, Sadie. Thanks, Christian. This was a blessing to be able to work with you all

on this book. You guys are awesome. And I hope obviously the book touches many people. And yeah, thanks again for having me. Yes thank you. you