WHOA That's Good Podcast - How to Defeat the Villain In Your Story | Sadie Robertson Huff & Jonathan 'JP' Pokluda

Episode Date: February 5, 2025

Jonathan "JP" Pokluda joins Sadie to get frank about demonic forces and spiritual warfare that we've all gotten a bit too "comfortable" with in our lives. There IS a supernatural force against you and we'll only defeat him with God's help. JP asks us all to consider where we've been desensitized and given the devil a foothold in our lives. Where is YOUR compromise with evil? And then how we can be set free from the compromises. You won't want to miss any part of this conversation! JP's new book, "Your Story Has a Villain: Identify Spiritual Warfare and Learn to Defeat the Enemy" is available now!  This Episode of WHOA That's Good is Sponsored By: https://drinklmnt.com/whoa — Get a free LMNT Sample Pack with any purchase! https://helixsleep.com/sadie — Get 20% off sitewide AND 2 free Dream Pillows with your mattress purchase! https://navage.com/whoababy — Order the new Naväge Baby Aspirator and Inhaler today! You can now find Naväge Baby at Walmart or at Walmart.com - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Happy Well That's Good Wednesday. I hope you're having a great week. But per usual, friends, it is about to get so much better because we have one of your favorite guests back on the podcast. And one of my favorite guests, of course, we have Jonathan Percluta, JP for short, one of Christian and I's favorite people to learn from. So welcome back to the podcast. Let's go.

I'm excited to be back. Thanks for having me back. I am pumped. I just told you this, but I feel like I have to say it for all the people listening because you wrote this book, Your Story Has a Villain, which everybody has to go pre-order or if not, if it's already out now that the podcast comes out, buy this book. Doesn't even matter. You just go on Amazon, type this in and buy it.

This is so helpful and so necessary, but I've been doing a deep dive in it since last night and all morning and then listen to your podcast on double speed. I have so much information in my mind right now about spiritual warfare. I am like- It changes everything. It messes with your head. I mean, totally.

Like I told a friend yesterday, I said, I feel like there's this foundational truth to Christianity that I just have completely missed out on my entire walk with Jesus. And now I've been a Christian for 20 years and I'm like, ah, trying to figure it out. Well, that was so interesting too, because you talk about that,

that this was something that you hadn't really looked into a lot, but as a kid, you were kind of intrigued by. So tell me about how you even got on the spiritual warfare kick yourself. Yeah, Sadie, before I do, let me show you something. I'm probably not supposed to do this,

but I see, like you have a copy, I guess, like an advanced reader. I have not even seen the book, but the publisher sent me this. Okay. But check this out. So I opened it up, right?

Cause it's just like this on the back and inside. I don't know if you can see that, but it's the gospeler. It's like they basically put a cover on Willie's book and sent it to me. So I was like, that's amazing. Well, this is so funny too, because I got the first copy of my dad's book because the publishing company sent it to me because I was interviewing him and I, uh, like walk into his house like, can we interview you?

And I'm like, by the way, and he's like, what? Like I haven't even seen it. So that is hilarious. Yeah, straight up. So yeah. So I was raised Catholic. Like I went to Catholic school for nine years and, and would go to this cathedral. I was raised in a small town in South Texas. And so there was like this cathedral, you know, like church that you'd walk in with the big steeples and a, you know, tower and a bell and all that, and the pews and whatnot.

And I say big, it was a relatively small church in a small town, but like a big structure, if you will, didn't have all of the kids' buildings and whatnot. And it was a place where the priests lived behind it. And so going, I mean, we had a religion class, right? And so I got, I mean, weird flex, but I got the religion award eight out of nine years of going to school there because I was always intrigued by the things of God and whatnot. And as we sat there and we would sing these hymns, you know, and I'd be bored out of my mind in, in church, there was this statue, like this enormous statue behind the altar of, and the church was St. Michael's. And so it had Michael the archangel,

and he was stabbing this serpent, this demon with a spear. And so for 18 years of my life, I would sit in church and just stare at this sculpture of an angel killing a demon. And it was just normal. I never even really thought about it. And so, as Christians, like, if we have any kind of knowledge of the Bible, we know that there's an enemy, Satan, the devil. And, right, we talk about that. I mean, I grew up, there was a brand back in the day, Massimo, and you would put an angel on one side of the shirt and a devil on the other side of the shirt, or you would see this in cartoons, where it's like an angel would pop up and try to convince you to do something good, and the devil would pop up and try to convince you to do something bad.

So we always kind of had this knowledge that there's an enemy, that our story has a villain. But I didn't understand how that worked. And so Christians, then I became a Christian after college. So in college, you know, they say drug sex and rock and roll in my case, drug sex and hip hop. I just ran from God hard and fast. And it wasn't, I wasn't like real, real, real bad, but I would just, I just didn't have anything to do with God.

So I was kind of normal bad, if you will. It's like, I was just chasing the party, living for the weekend, trying to find my identity in the world, dealing with all my insecurities. And I was at a club 22 years ago when someone invited me to church and I went hungover, sat in the back row and started wrestling with what I really believe about God. And I started reading the Bible for the first time. Well, Christians would say weird things. Like, for example, if you're going to go to church one day, like you think it's Saturday night and you're like, I'm going to go to church tomorrow and you get up and you get dressed for church and then you, you know,

you get in your car, like you're going to go and you turn the key to go click, click, click, click, click, you know, in your battery's dead and you can't go anywhere. You're like, Oh, you know, hashtag spiritual warfare. Well, I'm just asking the question, like, what did the enemy do? Like, what can demons do? You know, like, can they, can they, do they have to pop your hood? Do they, do they run down the battery? Did they take out the alternator? Like, what actually happened? And so really, as I was, grew as a disciple of Jesus, Jesus, as I began to read the scripture, this whole room, if you think of your faith like a house, and on the first floor, there's a giant room that's like spiritual warfare.

I never even went in that room. I would say things like, oh yeah, the devil's after me, or Satan attacked and I would these kind of trite cliche statements, but I didn't know how that actually worked. And so that's where this book was born. It's like, I've got to figure this out. And the more that I studied, the more I realized like, this is foundational to everything we believe as a follower of Jesus. And so I didn't have like, some of your listeners probably grew up in the charismatic faith

or they grew up in, in a denomination where they were regularly studying spiritual warfare. Like that was not me. And so I kind of sent out, like set out on this hunt of like, I really want to figure out what the Bible teaches about the enemy and about demons and what they can do to us and really how we win. And what I found is like behind everything broken in our world is the enemy. It is the villain. I mean, behind every heartbreak, behind every anxiety, behind every fear, behind every cancer, behind every diagnosis. Now I want to be careful how I

say that. I'm not saying that someone's just anxious simply because of spiritual warfare, I am saying that I don't think that will exist in heaven. And so, when the fall happened in Genesis 3, that's where all the broken things in our world come into play, and the enemy, the villain, uses those things against us to try to keep us from Jesus. Mm-hmm. Man, that's so true and that's so good. You know, I knew this podcast, I've prepared so much, but I was going to go off the rails because I have so many questions just in my own pattern as you're talking. But as soon as you're talking, I'm getting this picture of the Wonder Woman movie, which you actually talk about a lot, how so much of Hollywood is influenced by the story of the gospel or the story that's laid out in the Bible. Not that they're necessarily meaning to be, they just are. Wonder Woman, I think really paints a good picture of that

with like everything is influenced by the evil one. If you've ever seen the Wonder Woman movie, it's like the whole time there's like this God of war and she thinks it's this other guy because it's like, he obviously is the captain of the war. And then at the end of the movie, spoiler alert, he's not the God of war. There is someone else who's like a sneakier version.

He didn't, wasn't assuming, you know, the whole movie. And you could see that like they show this whole picture of like the movie kind of that you didn't see. And it's like him whispering lies to the people and they were doing evil things, but they were influenced by an actual evil one. And I was like, man, that's such a good picture of what, I think how the enemy works because it's like,

yes, bad things happen in the world naturally and bad things, people do bad things, but like it's influenced by a villain, by an evil one. And you do a great job painting that out throughout the book. I have to say too, just upfront on this podcast, eight minutes in, because I'm a sensitive soul person. I am one of those people that if I think a movie's

gonna be dark, or if I think that I can't listen to any true crime podcast, anything that's scary, I'm out on. I don't wanna watch it, I don't wanna listen to it, I don't listen to any like true crime podcast, like anything that's scary, I'm like out on. Like I don't wanna watch it, I don't wanna listen to it, I don't wanna hear it. And I think sometimes when it comes to spiritual warfare, or when it comes to talking about Satan or talking about demonic things,

like people like me are like, I'm out. Like I don't even wanna know about it, I don't wanna hear about it, I don't wanna listen to it. But I think that that's really naive to not know or to just go through life fearing to hear about it, I don't want to listen to it, but I think that that's really naive to not know or to just go through life fearing to talk about it. So I got to ask you for those who are listening who are hearing the topic we're on and like, should I tap out?

Cause I'm kind of scared. Should we even be scared to talk about these things? Yeah, so good. That's such a veteran move to even address that upfront. And so I would just, one, I would say to the listeners, like, the book's not scary. It really is presenting a factual, the reality that we live in with the hope that we have in Jesus, and we do not need to be afraid. If you're a believer, like, honestly, if you've trusted in Christ, His

death and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins, then we know that greater is he who is in us than he who is in the world. And so like Satan's no match for Christ. There's a heresy out there called dualism, which is this idea that like Satan and God are equal and opposing forces. And this is often what Hollywood paints with like Marvel or DC, is we see the Wonder Woman, we see the Superman, we see the Catwoman or Batman or whatever the situation is, whoever the hero is, they're really wrestling and struggling with the villain. God's not struggling with Satan. Like, Satan can't do any, like Satan has to ask God for permission to do anything. We see that in the whole story and narrative of Job. And then when Jesus is with the disciples, he goes to Peter and he says,

Satan has asked me to sift you like wheat, so I'm going to pray for you that your faith would increase. Well, in Ephesians 6, we see that a part of the armor of God is the shield of faith, which extinguishes the fiery darts that the enemy shoots at us. What that means is, the greater your faith, like this is the story the Bible teaches us, that I had overlooked my entire life, the greater your faith, the greater your protection from the enemy. The more you believe in God, the more you're going to overcome the villain and temptation that you face. And so, the solution then is to feed our faith so that our faith grows, that we would actually grow in our knowledge of and our love for

God. And as we grow in our knowledge of and our love for God, we are protected from the enemy. But I do want your listeners to know you do have a villain. Like there is a supernatural force that is against you and against your family and against your faith, right? And so it's this, there's two messages here. You actually do have someone who hates you. They hate your relationship. They hate your children, whether they've been born or not yet. I mean, they really are after you. And their number one objective is to steal your joy, to kill your dreams, you know, and destroy your life and your faith. And as you pursue God, they hate that. Like, they don't want anything to do with that. And so, we just lean into God. Psalm 23, you know, the Lord is my shepherd,

I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside quiet waters. He restores my soul. And it goes, Even as I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, for you are with me. And so now all of a sudden, the pronouns change from talking about God to talking to God. You are within the valley of the shadow of death. You, God, are with me. You are near me. And so as we move closer and closer to God, the enemy is like, man, there's not much we can do with this one. And they're going to try, but the biggest thing, their biggest tool is sin, temptation. They're going to try to get you to sin. And Ephesians tells us, do not give the devil a foothold.

And that's really what I'm trying to communicate in this book, Your Story Has a Villain, is that when you sin, you let him in. That when you give way, like sin is not cute. It's not just this thing that you're gonna get away with, whether it's pornography or sexual promiscuity or immodesty or your language or drunkenness. Whatever you're doing that you think is cute as you pursue it, you're really allowing, you're giving the enemy a gateway into your

life to try to lead you out of a vibrant relationship with Jesus. And so when we sin, we let him in, we give the devil a foothold, and really what the scripture calls us to repeatedly is to resist Him. It says, when you resist Him, He will flee from you. Whether you're living in the north and you're still out there shoveling, or you're in the south and getting ready to hit the beach early this year, keeping out with your hydration is essential. Replacing electrolytes is important for everyone, whether you're working out, recovering from illness,

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Let me think of whenever you talk about hell in the book, you say like hell has kind of become a joke, which is so true. Like Christian and I were so bothered by this, but we saw this commercial for a new Christmas movie coming out and it's called Dear, it might be called Dear Santa, but it's Dear Satan. Have you seen this?

Oh my gosh, that's just terrible. But in my opinion, I think that's awful. But I think it's just like making so light of something that actually is so serious. What do you think? I mean, you talk so much about this in the book, but I just want you to talk a little bit about it in the podcast. Like, what do you think people's perspective of hell is versus like what it actually is? Because I do think it's important to understand what that is, because if you don't understand it and you don't have a fear of it, to understand what that is because if you don't understand it and you don't have a fear of it, and then you don't take serious the actual whole message of the gospel and what Jesus really has

done. We really have allegorized hell, personified hell, we've animated hell, you know, and it's, you know, whether it's taking, you know, Dear Satan, a movie about Santa and, you know, a kid accidentally writes Satan, whether it's wicked, you know, the witches, which are cute and the, you know, I mean, there's some bangers, some bops in the, you know, in the, you know, in the play. I mean, it's like a mate, like I can sing these and, and it's fun. But I think we, I think the greatest trick the devil has ever pulled is convincing the world that he doesn't exist. As C.S. Lewis said, there's two errors about the devil's.

One making too much of him and believing that he's behind every bush and going to get you, and the other is believing that he doesn't exist. I don't think that is any longer the case. And today, I think that it's actually, we believe He exists and that belief has zero implications for how we live our lives. And I think so often we are entertained by the things that Jesus Christ died for. And what I want you to know is that hell is not a party. There are no drugs in hell. There's no alcohol in hell. There's nothing there to numb your pain. Hell is simply like, hell was a place created for Satan. Satan has really good theology. Like he's read the back of the book. He knows that

he was defeated at the cross. He knows that he loses, that he's thrown into the lake of fire. So he's running what is called a scorched earth strategy, meaning because he's lost, he's just trying to destroy everything. Okay? And so he's just trying to just hurt everyone. Like, he finds great delight in worship when you cut yourself, when you starve yourself, when you hurt yourself, when you pull out your hair, when you sit in your depression scrolling through social media, comparing yourself to everyone else because you don't look as cute as they do, or you're not as stylish as they are, or you didn't get to go to Hawaii like they did.

And so, that's a bigger commercial for hell. Hell is eternal FOMO. We see in Luke 16 that the rich man can see Lazarus in heaven and long to be there. Like, hell is for the rest of eternity, realizing you missed out on the goodness of God. And so, hell was created for Satan, and the only person that goes to hell is the person who has to pay for their sins, because it's the only thing we can do in hell is pay for our sins forever. And so, the only person who doesn't go to hell is the person whose sins have been paid for. The way to think about it is every sin will be paid for either in hell

or on the cross. And what we know is that Jesus, that God in His kindness, He so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, go to hell, but have eternal life, go to heaven. If we trust that Christ paid for our sins, if Jesus paid for our sins, then we don't have to pay for our sins, but we have to trust that He paid for our sins to avoid hell. But hell is just a place where you pay for your sins forever and ever and ever and ever and ever. And you're right when you said this earlier, Sadie, like Hollywood is capitalized on this, whether it's Gladiator or Braveheart or Cinderella or Snow White or Wonder Woman or Superman. Like all of these movies, these good versus evil movies,

is there's this savior character, there's a curse on the land, there's someone with supernatural powers that is seeking to hurt the world and then someone comes in from another world to save the world. It's like this is the gospel over and over and over again. And the reason that we pay $20 to go sit in an AMC or Starplex or wherever to watch this movie is because it's the story that we exist in. It resonates so deep within our hearts. Rapunzel, youzel, we're longing for this Prince Charming. And the Prince Charming, the Savior, the one who slays the dragon, is Jesus Christ. And it's just important that we know that. It's so true. And even as you're talking, I'm sitting here thinking, if you're listening to this podcast, you can't casually listen to this episode. You can't casually

listen to this conversation. It's't casually listen to this conversation. It's one of those conversations that it has to convict. You know, it has to do something in you. You can be a believer all your life. Like me, I gave my life to Jesus at such an early age. My parents are believers, but I sit in this podcast and you're challenging your thinking, you're challenging your faith,

you're challenging the way that you're living it out. You can't listen to this and not then be responsible for the words that are said. And I was actually thinking about, we just saw Moana too, which is like my kid's favorite thing in the whole world is Moana. So they were so excited for Moana too. And man, it was hitting me so deeply because Moana won't give it all away. But there's this moment where she gets this call on her life to go do something yet again that's scary, to yet again go beyond the reef and restore her people, except for like the call comes with massive consequence. Like it could cost her her life, it could cost her her family, every single thing that she loves. And it's like there's this moment where she's wrestling with it

because she doesn't necessarily want to do it because she doesn't necessarily wanna do it because she doesn't wanna leave everything she loves. She doesn't wanna have to do this thing that's gonna potentially cost her her life. But yet now she's been called. She's responsible for the truth she knows. So it's like, you either do it or you don't, but there's no way to not, because there's no going back.

Now she knows the only way that they have hope. And she's so scared. And so her grandma gives her this word. And I was like, man, this is like speaking to me because when she was younger, it was a little bit easier. Back when she went beyond the reef the first time, she was like a naive young person. Like, let's do it.

Let's me against the world. I got this, me in the ocean. But this time she like is worried about her family, her little sister. And her grandma says, when you were younger, you didn't know what you had to lose, and now you do. And I think that that's a hard thing as someone listening to this podcast

who's marked by this, like, okay, if I believe this and that means that I have to turn away from my sin, if I believe this and that means that hell is real and heaven is real and I have a decision to make, and you're responsible for the choice that you make for the decision and the life you're gonna live. And although it might be scary to give up your past life

and give up the sin, it's like, you know there's only one way with hope. And so you have to make that decision. And so I just feel like, as I was watching that movie, I was thinking about just like the true wrestle it is to give your life, you know, to the Lord, even though it's like the best decision in the whole world, even though, yes, it is the hope of heaven.

You're so grateful. There's no other hope without it. There also is like a man, but pick up your cross, you know? You leave it all behind. And so I just hold that sincere, I guess, the gravity of this conversation for those listening, that again, you can't just casually talk about spiritual warfare.

You can't just casually read a book like this, casually listen to a podcast about this. That doesn't mean you turn it off. I think that's where I love how you so openly say about this book, like I wrestled through the writing of it. I was challenged and that's a good thing. We should all be challenged by it. We should lean into it.

I love that you bring up the C.S. Lewis quote too because I was actually going to ask you about this because I do feel like in some ways, yes, the church doesn't talk about it a lot. In some areas, it's like we underplay the enemy, but then in some ways we overplay it, where again, your car analogy was a really good one. Like I ran out of gas a couple of weeks ago,

and that was not the enemy. I just didn't fill up my tank, you know? So like sometimes we overblame, sometimes we underblame, and all of those things. Bringing out Wicked is a good one for me to wrestle with, because I personally loved Wicked. I saw the movie, I've seen the play. That's something that I have always loved since I was a kid,

but I'm not thinking, oh, this is dark or this is demonic. I'm not thinking about it like that. So I do wanna ask you, I guess the line as Christians, when it comes to Harry Potter, Wicked, I heard a podcast you did about even eating Voodoo donuts. Like, where do you, how do you wrestle with like, okay, I'm in the world, I'm not of the world. I understand there's a villain, but I'm watching Wicked

because I've loved it since I was a kid. Like, how do you wrestle with that? ["Wicked"] Sometimes in life, we go through seasons where we just really have to prioritize our health and make some necessary changes. Getting into a healthy sleep schedule is one of the easiest things that you can do and it makes a huge impact on your overall health.

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And we love to sleep on our mattress. So go to helixsleep.com slash Sadie for 20% off site-wide plus two free dream pillows with mattress purchase. That's helixsleep.com slash Sadie for 20% off site-wide plus two free dream pillows for mattress purchases. Helixsleep.com slash Sadie. I think God is honored in the wrestling. So first I'll say that, you know, I think the nature, sometimes we get so just bogged down, you know, and there's people with OCD or scrupulosity that just really get stuck

in the, am I in sin, am I in sin, am I in sin? And I would say, listen, there's freedom in Christ. Like we are in the world, but not of the world. We belong to another kingdom. And so it depends on your heart posture in going into wicked. If you're going into it and you're delighting in the witches and the witchcraft, you know, whether it's, and you're just making light of it and you're not wrestling with it, well, then I think, hey, be careful because there may be a crack in the door where the enemy is going to try to come in, where he's going to try to tempt you, where he's going to desensitize you to the things of evil.

When we think about evil, I think we often think Ouija boards and seances and darkness and grave and skeletons and all of those kinds of things. The mantra of the occult is do as thy will. So the mantra of the satanic Bible, there is a satanic Bible. There are people who go to mass to worship Satan, if you will, and really it's a mockery of Christianity is what it is. And it's the greatest PR campaign in the world because what they say is, hey, if you want to be a part of us, you can do whatever you want to do. Now, you know, what you might call the mantra of the Christian Bible is do what God wills. You know, Jesus said before He died for us, not my will, but thy will be done. You know,

let this cup pass from me. Like, this is so much for me to carry, but I want to do the will of my Father in heaven. And so this is what it looks like to be a Christian or a little Christ, a Christ follower, is we're going about saying, hey, I wanna do what God wants me to do. And so if I'm gonna eat a Voodoo donut, I don't wanna do that in a way that's like, ha ha,

you know, this is mocking Christianity. You know, I'm eating a, I mean, one of their donuts is a pentagram, which is a satanic symbol. It's like, I'm eating this lighthearted, no big deal. Or it's just like, Hey, I can eat this meat, you know, this food sacrifice, the idols, because I know that greater is he who is in me than he who is in the world. And then you can wrestle with, do I want to give this, you know, do I want to fund this? Do I want to give them money? Do I want to resource them? Same thing with Wicked.

It's like, hey, if it's cute, it's like Dorothy, you know, Wizard of Oz. Hey, it's, you know, continuing in that I love the songs. Like that's one thing. If I'm seeing them with a heart, you know, to not honor God or to glorify Satan, then that's problematic. And I just think we, Proverbs 4, as it just talks about, do not walk in the ways of the wicked, do not come close to evil, don't poke it, don't look at it, don't talk to it, like flee from it, get away from it, like don't, don't. And so that's how we have to wrestle. It's like, hey, am I entertaining the things that Christ died for? Am I being

entertained by the things that Christ died for? Or as I navigate this world, do I have a kingdom purpose to listen to this or a kingdom purpose to watch this? And I think God is honored in that kind of wrestling. It's so true. I love that. That just welcoming in that wrestle. or you know and I think God is honored in that kind of wrestling. It's so true I love that that just welcoming in that wrestle and you know it's interesting even with Wicked the way that I kind of fell in love with the musical is when I had you know seen it whenever I was a little girl and so I really didn't understand the the context of what it was but then I met this girl a long time ago and her name is Jenna Claire. She is just like the sweetest person ever. And the first time I met her, I was like,

you need to play Galinda on Broadway. She's in theater. I met her through a theater situation and she was like, that's actually been a dream of mine. She is a strong believer, loves the Lord, like spreads the love of Jesus just by her kindness and love and joy. And anyways, she actually ended up getting the opportunity

to be Glinda. And so I got to go see her do the show. And like her, like she is such a light in Broadway and such a light in, you know, what would might be like considered a more dark industry. And it's just so cool to see her do what she's done and like thrive in that. And she's not, she's not playing the character anymore.

She has two kids now and all the things. But anyways, it was so cool because then when the movie just came out, she got to go to the premiere with all the other Glendas and Ariana Grande, all the people. And it's just so cool to see where goddess placed her. And I do think that's when it's like you're in the world, you're not of the world.

It's amazing to be called into some of those spaces too. So maybe that's why whenever I love Wicked, I have this connection of seeing what she has done. And so, yeah, I think that's so true. It's like, it's so much about your heart posture and the wrestle. And, you know, even when I was watching the movie, it gets to the part where there's like a spell.

And then I'm like, ooh, that's not right. You know what I mean? Like there are those moments where you're like, uh-uh, not about that. And you do have to discern that. Certainly. Yeah. And I think it's, I don't, I think we try to make all of this stuff black and white and the, you know, first Corinthians eight Romans 14, a lot of it, like it can be wrong for one person and not wrong for another person. And I think that's hard for Christians to navigate, not wrong for another person. And I think that's hard for Christians to navigate. But could you go see Wicked and enjoy it on a date with your husband and your marriage

is better because of the time that you all spent and the common bond and you're singing the songs and you can do it to the glory of God? Is that possible? Yes. Could someone else go see it and be tempted to toward darkness, witchcraft, evil, you know, curses? Absolutely. And so that, you know, the enemy, all things in the world, like the Bible calls him, and I don't think we understand this or given this enough thought often. The Bible, like if I was to ask a Bible trivia question, who is the God of this world?

You know, and a lot of people would be like, what, Jesus or God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the Trinity. Well, the scripture actually says that Satan is the God of this world, the Prince of the air. And so, we don't understand that we're a part of this kind of supernatural test that Satan was an angel, that he was with, he's created being with God. He said that he was more beautiful than the other angels. It says that he literally had musical instruments woven into him. So I personally think he was like the first worship leader, but he didn't want to worship God. He wanted to be like God.

And so God sent him to the earth, right? This is like a Marvel movie, like a DC, like comic, you know, he's God sent him to the earth, right? This is like a Marvel movie, like a DC comic, you know? He's like, sent him to the earth and said, let's see what kind of God you can be. And then God created, the creator of the heavens and the earth created us in His image. And now we live here and we're a part of this test of which God are we going to worship? The God of this world or the God, the creator of the heavens and the earth, you know, of all things. And, and I think we have to choose correctly. And what's happening in this next generation is like, witchcraft is running rampant. I mean, you can go on Etsy and buy a like, put a curse, have a witch put a curse on somebody. It's

crazy town out there. I don't know. Did you have you seen or heard anything about Tammy Comer's story? Have you seen that, you know, John Mark Comer? Okay, so his his wife like Has done a podcast now. It's a story that's told of Having a generational curse. Well, I grew up in in a faith where I didn't even believe in those things I honestly thought that was like Hey, that's weird. I don't want anything to do with that. I'm not even sure that's, you know, in my Bible. And, and they tell

this unbelievable story of, of this, you know, of her, um, her great, great grandmother, you know, was involved in an affair and this lady put a curse on, on their lineage. And you're, you're like hearing this and you're like, is this real? Can this even happen? Is this crazy? I think we overlook the fact that the enemy does have powers here. When Pharaoh threw his staff down or his magicians threw their staff down and they turned into snakes, I don't think that was a magic trick. I think that was dark magic.

I think that was of the enemy, giving them powers to manipulate people. And power is so appealing to human beings. And so it's like when I was in Haiti, there's voodoo temples everywhere. And it's so weird because it's like even Christians will go to a voodoo priest at times. And I was asking, it's like, how does this fit in their theology? And they said, you know, the Haitians believe in God, and this is a general overgeneralization, but this is what the Haitian friend told me. So the Haitians believe in God, they just believe he's slow. And they think Satan will act faster. And so sometimes if they want a kid to be healed, they'll go to the church first, but if he's not healed, then they'll

go to the voodoo priest. And I just thought about Americans, you know, Americans, we believe in God, we just believe He's slow. And so our God is the God of mammon, often, you know, the God of money. We want success and riches to try to, you know, bring about our own desires rather than to worship the one true God. Man, that's so good. And that's so like the Israelites from the start. It's like, that was too slow. Moses on the mountain and they start creating their own gods, which is so still the story.

Wow, that's so true. And I love that you brought up that because there's certainly a lot of things that it's like to one, it's a sin to the other. It's not, but then there are a lot of things that are just like, no, that is sinful. And there is like witch lot of things that it's like to one it's a sin to the other it's not but then there are a lot of things that are just like no that is sinful and there is like witchcraft and things happening and especially in young adults that I think people don't understand the seriousness of it like you know all the crystals and the all the different things the

manifesting and and whatnot and it is very scary and something that I think you do need to take seriously and as a believer not something to mess around with. You actually talk about desensitization. Is that right? Desensitizing things. I love your football kind of analogy with that. You talk a little bit about how you think we've been a little bit desensitized to the seriousness of especially like witchcraft and stuff.

Yeah. to the seriousness of, especially like witchcraft and stuff. Yeah. Well, fam, the seasons are already starting to change again, which means allergies are on their way. I've been talking a lot about Navage Baby and how their new baby aspirator and inhaler have been champions for my family. Navage Baby products are made to last and give us the pediatrician recommended baby safe relief our kids need.

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So get easy relief for your little ones. Order the new Navaj Baby Aspirator and inhaler today. You can now find Navaj Baby at Walmart or at walmart.com. And again, get Navaj Baby at Walmart or walmart.com. That's the downside to Wicked. That's the downside to some of the music that we listen to. And it's like, I wish it was terrible music, but I mean, it's a lot of times it's really very gifted artists.

And sometimes their giftedness is given to them by the enemy so that they will raise to power and create this. And I know I sound like your grandma right now. It's like, hey, you know, trash in, garbage in, garbage out. But there's a reason why those sayings, those trite cliches, statements have stuck around for centuries and centuries and centuries, because the same, it's a lot of what the scripture says, you reap what you sow, or above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life. Everything you do flows from it. And so the things that you feed your mind, feed your heart and what you feed your heart, feed your life. And you're

going to go in the trajectory of the things that you, you take in, you're going to become what you watch and what you listen to. That's, that's the reality and the enemy, the, the villain is working through music. He's working through movies. He's working through videos and it's, and it's like some of the, like the Karens, if you will, they'll put out the crazy, you know, TikTok reels or whatever it is. And it's like, and it's so easy to blow it off as crazy. And a lot of times there's like a sliver of truth in there too. And so we just have to be discerning and we have to look at it and say, all right, what is true? What is not? And am I, I mean, this is the question for your listeners, for your viewers right now. It's like, where have you been desensitized? Like if you're, if you're trying to safeguard your life. And so like, let's

say you're in a room and, and the room has lots of doors and behind those doors is, is a lion. First Peter five calls Satan the villain a lion. It says that your enemy is a lion who prowls around, the enemy prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour. So behind all these doors is a lion. And whenever you compromise, when you give in to temptation, you go and you unlock that door and you give in to temptation again, then you turn the knob and you leave it cracked, you know, and you, you're just giving the lion room to come in and devour you.

Where are you leaving that door unlocked? Where are you turning the knob? Where are you making those small compromises? Where have you been desensitized to that? Where are you saying, ah, it's okay. And like a good test for us is like, hey, if I'm listening to a song and like Jesus walked in, would I be okay?

Like would I be like, hey, Jesus, listen to this, put, you know, hey, here's my AirPods, you know, like listen, you gotta hear this, you know? Or if I'm watching a movie and like Jesus walked in, like would I be, oh man, sit down, here's some popcorn, all right, you got Jesus, pull up a seat, like let's watch this together. Or would I be embarrassed, would I be ashamed, would I feel like, oh man, sit down, here's some popcorn, all right? You gotta, Jesus, pull up a seat, like let's watch this together. Or would I be embarrassed?

Would I be ashamed? Would I feel like, oh goodness, I don't wanna be doing this when you come back right now. Like this is not what I wanna be doing. In my relationship, you know, if you're in a relationship with a young man and you're not married and you know you're making those compromises,

you're going and you're turning that knob, and you don't realize, like nobody wants to be depressed Nobody wants to despair but a lot of times the depression comes later from those little compromises because that's what the enemy's trying to do Yeah, like as you make those tiny compromises as you give in to temptation He's he just wants to hurt you like he hates you and he wants to hurt you He wants you to be heartbroken. He wants you to have a knot to hurt you. He wants you to be heartbroken. He wants you to have a knot in your stomach. He wants you to not be able to sleep. He wants you pulling out your hair. He wants you hating what you see in the mirror. You know, this

is what he's after. Like that's what it's fun for him to do that. It's fun for him to create pain in your life. And so God, he's not trying to rip you off when he's like, Hey, I wouldn't listen to that. I wouldn't watch that. I wouldn't go there. I wouldn't hang out with Him. I wouldn't date Him. I wouldn't text Him back. He's not trying to rip you off. He's trying to set you free. John 10, 10 says, The enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy, but I've come so that you might have life and have it to the fullest. Jesus wants to give us an abundant life that is only found in Him.

And so, if you're in this place and you're listening and you realize you're looking at your life right now and you're thinking like, where have I compromised? Like maybe it's vaping, maybe I have an addiction to nicotine, maybe it's THC, maybe it's a show that I watch all the time because I love the way that I feel when they make out

or when they go further than making out. Maybe it's a novel that I'm reading that I know that I shouldn't, but I really enjoy it. Maybe I'm addicted to reading them or watching them or maybe I'm clicking hashtags on Instagram or TikTok and my algorithms are continuing to show me lustful images because those are the ones that I dwell on that I go slow over. Maybe it's Amazon habit. Like I just, you know, I find so much just a dopamine hit by that buy it now, you know, it's going to be

here in two days, like prime delivery. Maybe it's shopping, it's retail therapy. Like where am I making those compromises where I'm not God's man or God's woman, and just know what it is, and then bring it, get some believers around you and say, you know what, I was listening to Sadie's podcast, well, that's good, and I realized, like, in this area of my life, I've given the devil a foothold. I've made a compromise. I've partnered with evil, and I just, I've never even thought about it that way. Would you guys please pray over me bring it to the light and James 5 16 says have people pray over you says Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other for the prayers of a righteous person are powerful and effective So that you may be healed it says and have them have believers pray over you and and I think that's going to be step one to you walking in the light

and finding freedom in Christ. That is so great. I'm so thankful for every single thing you just said. I'm like, that is going to bring so much freedom to people, just the accountability of it and all of the things. And I think, you know, when you say that, I love that you said about the care and it's like, there's a sliver of truth in it about the garbage and garbage. I was like, no, that is actually true. And it's not even just true for the negative. It's true for the positive. Like once you put in that's positive, it's amazing to see the fruit that comes out. Like it's so fun whenever you do get in the Word and you're having conversations with God and you're listening to the

Spirit and then all of a sudden you're in a conversation and you start hearing those things come out of your mouth. Like it's so rewarding to get to be a part of something good coming out, you know, at the same time. And so there is like reward to that whenever you turn away or turn off those bad things and actually fill yourself with the good things and the goodness of the Lord. And I actually, I say this often and I really mean it, like I don't know who I would be without starting this podcast.

And I don't mean that from a, I'm a host of a podcast. I mean that from how much I've learned from this podcast, from the guests that have spoken into my life as I've listened and how I've gotten to read so many books. But before even that, just even wanting to start a podcast, I had such a, just kind of a, I guess a good fear of the fact that I was going to be talking into a microphone a lot just kind of a, I guess a good fear of the fact that I was gonna be talking into a microphone a lot

and thinking, man, that is a huge accountability thing. Like I'm gonna be talking into this microphone and people are gonna hear it and it's gonna live on the internet for years to come. And I remember writing the verse down on a piece of paper from the heart so the mouth shall speak and I put it in my closet and I thought about that verse, I still think about that verse all the time.

And when I'm watching something, if I'm like, I do not want this in my heart because whatever's in my heart is gonna come out of my mouth and a lot of times my mouth is in front of a microphone and I do not want this to ever come out in a podcast, in a stage, in a conversation with a friend. Like I think about that as an accountability thing for me. And you know, not everybody is speaking in a podcast

or on a stage, but your life is your ministry and your conversations with your friends are your ministry, your conversations with family members is ministry, all of it is. And so I think if you can think about that from the heart, so your mouth shall speak what you're filling your mind with, what you're filling your heart with, is what is gonna come out and the stressful moments, in the happy moments, in the

everyday moments, in the conversations. And to be able to bring something to the table that is life-changing, like the Word of God, to be able to bring something to the table in a conversation that could actually bless someone and encourage someone is such a cool thing to get to be a part of. And it raises and increases your faith, it increases the faith of others. And I think whenever you think about even, actually it was thinking about this morning, whenever someone sent a text about just the Passion crew

last year and how we got to pray together, and then you sent back one of those scriptures and it was like, you know, we cheer each other on in our faith and all those things. I think that's kind of what I'm thinking about when I think about this conversation. Like when you fill yourself up with the good stuff, you're able to give thanks and cheer each other on

in the church, and it's just a gift. It's a beautiful thing. I love how you just quoted that scripture about being healed. One of the things you talk about in the book is about how like we're never going to reach perfection when it comes to our thought life, our thought pattern, our not being sinful because we're human.

But I do think, the word does talk about being healed. So yes, we're not going to be perfect, but you can be healed. And I want to ask this question. It's kind of a messy question, but I think you can handle it considering all the topics you face. Ask anything. I feel like this is like one of my Friday questions to JP. It's kind of a messy question, but I think you can handle it considering all the topics you face. I feel like this is like one of my Friday questions to JP. So me and a friend were talking about this recently because she was at this conference

and one of the guys was up there on stage talking about how like he struggled with, you know, a porn addiction for his most of his life. And then like now he's married and he was like, it's always gonna be a problem. It's just always gonna be a thing, but I'm kind of like overcoming it, but it's always gonna be a thing. Well, my friend came to me and was like,

that really messed me up because like, like what about my husband? Like, I know he's sure with that in the past, but like, I know he's trying to overcome it or he has overcome it. Like, is that something I need to worry about for him? And I feel like that is like a hard thing to wrestle with as it doesn't matter if you're the girl or the guy.

Like there are certain things in life that you struggle with in your past that might still be a struggle, but you are overcoming it by the blood of Jesus. So yes, we're not going to reach perfection, but how do you get to the place of at least being healed? And like, not only for Yourself but also for maybe like your spouse is that make sense?

Clear your schedule for you time with a handcrafted espresso beverage from Starbucks Savor the new small and mighty cortado cozy up with the familiar flavors of pistachio or Shake up your mood with an iced brown sugar oat shaken espresso? Whatever you choose, your espresso will be handcrafted with care at Starbucks. Yeah, it's a great question. It's a really great question. And so I'll address it on the topic of lust. I'll address it with the scripture and my experience. And I'll say that you can swap out lust for some other struggle, some other addiction, whatever it may be. And this one is particularly damaging to marriages because it just creates so much insecurity.

When you get into a relationship and you realize, oh man, my spouse may be addicted to variety and I may never be enough for them. That can just really feed those insecurities. So quick backstory, if we don't know each other, I struggled with pornography and sex addiction through my adult years and then became a Christian. And it wasn't like when I said the prayer and asked Jesus into my life and trusted in His death and resurrection for the forgiveness of my sins, that desire didn't go away overnight. I mean, there were things that changed, like, say, do you talk about language? I mean, I cussed so bad, but when I became a Christian, I just was uncomfortable saying those words. But

I would still struggle wanting to look at porn and then I would fall. Like, I would, you know, we get so clumsy when we talk about sin. I would fall into pornography. I would fall, like I would, you know, we get so clumsy when we talk about sin. I would fall into pornography. I would look at it, you know, I would give into it. And so let me back up and kind of go back to my door analogy. A friend recommended a movie. And so now I'm, you know, years sober from pornography and somebody recommends this movie

and I'm watching this movie and all of a sudden there's a, you know sudden there's a shower scene. They're taking a shower and there's nudity on the screen. Well, what happened is it's like when I saw that and I didn't do it intentionally, I didn't wanna see it, but when I saw it, it like awoken something in me and it's like I went to that door and I unlocked it and I turned that knob and I invited the enemy

and now everywhere I go, I'm tempted, I'm noticing, you know, what women are wearing and I'm thinking objectifying thoughts and I'm, you know, I'm just not God's man. I'm wounded, you know, I'm falling susceptible to temptation. Well, we don't think about that in the demonic realm. Like there's something supernatural happening because of, you know, looking at that. It's not just biological. It's also demonic. It's also satanic. And those are words that we're not always super comfortable with. And so in recovery, we will often use language like I'm struggling or I'm a recovering alcoholic, or I'm a recovering porn addict. And I think that is an effort to stay close to our depravity, understanding that today we are capable of going the way of sin.

And so I think that's good. But you bring up a great point in that we do have victory in Christ. And so as I'm walking with Jesus, I cannot walk with Jesus and look at porn at the same time. It is impossible. So when I look at pornography, I'm walking away from Jesus. Now, I'm not saying I'm not saved. I'm not talking about salvation. I'm saying that I am not in right relationship with Jesus when I'm engaging in sin. But when I'm walking with Jesus, I'm not engaging in sin. And so the truth is that when you marry someone,

you are marrying someone who is capable of all kinds of sin, whether that's pornography, whether that's adultery, whether that's drug use, whether that's, you know, abuse of all kinds. I mean, humans are capable of all sorts of evil, but not when we're walking with Jesus. And so as you're looking for someone that you might spend the rest of your life with, you're trying to find someone who is both walking with Jesus and committed to walking

with Jesus. Because as they remain committed to walking with Jesus, they're going to remain committed to pursuing you rightly, to honoring you, to respecting you, to submitting to you, to caring for you, to cherishing you. And so that's why it's so important. People think it's so cliche when I'm like, hey, find the godliest person you know and go out with them or marry them. And they're like, oh, it's not that simple.

It's not that simple. But it is that important. It is like that simple. But it is that important. It is like godliness, like a right relationship with Jesus is most important above and beyond everything else. There's never been a divorce between two people who are pursuing Christ. It's never happened in the history of the world. The divorce rate between two committed Christians, Christ followers, between two people following Jesus, the divorce rate is zero. Zero. It's never happened.

And so it's like, that's what we're looking for when we're thinking about this. And then to your friend is just like, yes, I understand the vulnerability of having to trust someone. But it's whether, you know, maybe she hasn't licked a porn, but she has sin in her past too, right? That he's overlooking and extending grace to, and so she's extending grace. And a part of that vulnerability is what love is made out of. You know, it's like God allows us some semblance of free will, because without it, we'd be robots.

And likewise, in the marriage relationship is like he has to choose her and she has to choose him every single day. And if he does look at something, if I click on a hashtag or I dwell on an image on Instagram that shouldn't, I go to Monica and I'm saying, love, would you please forgive me? While ago I was on Instagram

and I saw something that I shouldn't have seen and I looked too long. I didn't flee as fast as I should have. And will you please forgive me for that lustful thought that I had and be restored in that relationship. And it's the asking for forgiveness that also can build trust because she knows that I'm not hiding things from her.

She knows I'm not sneaking. That if I do something foolish, that I'm going gonna bring that to her and seek to restore our relationship. That's so good. That's so beautiful. I'm so glad I asked that question because that was such a great way to answer it just from your personal experience as well. For those listening, if you don't follow JP on Instagram, every single Friday he does a Friday Q&A and it's answering questions like this, these messy questions that people have to ask. And he answers them with biblical truth

and his own story and testimony. And it's honestly so helpful. I look forward to Fridays. Always make sure to go. And sometimes I'll get it on Saturday and I'll have like, you know, one hour left of the stories I'm trying to get through it. But it's so good and it's so helpful.

I'm so grateful for how you do not shy away from the truth or the messiness of sin or conversations. And so, JP, thank you for writing this book. Everyone, your story has a villain. Go get it now. JP, thank you for spending about an hour with us talking us through it. Hey, I'm so proud of you, Sadie and Christian. We love you guys. And I'm just encouraged. I mean, I want to say this as we wrap up. I I've seen your faith go from this like cute relationship with Jesus, which is, which was fun loving and inspiring to people and administered to others. And I watched messages you did early on to, I've seen it just grow into this powerful force of the kingdom thinking about spiritual warfare.

The enemy is terrified of your relationship with Jesus because of the way God is using you. And you gave one of the best, I mean, and I say this with no flattery and I'm a guy who cares deeply about communication and the preaching of God's Word. And you gave one of the best messages I've ever heard at Passion and just elevating the scriptures and calling people to know the Word. We're cheering you on from Waco, Texas. You just need to know that. We're in your corner and we're cheering you on. Keep going. Lauren Ruffin Thank you. That means so much. Honestly, it means so much. Like I said, we learned so much from y'all. And I have to just say too,

because it's so cool that you said that about changing from like acute faith to like a strong faith. And a lot of people have noted that they think my voice has changed over the past couple of years, but it's ever since becoming a mom, people are like, ever since you became a mom, you talk different, like on stage, it's like a more seriousness. And it's true because now I think about them.

And you know, when you have something that you're like accountable to, and you're thinking about the next generation and how what you're doing today affects the next. Like yeah, we should all be aware of that. And I'm definitely aware of it with two little ones running around the house. So it's cool that you said that. It's very true.

I've gotten a lot more serious about it since seeing the next generation come up in our house. So thank you for saying that.