WHOA That's Good Podcast - How to See Beauty in the Church — Even After You've Been Hurt | Sadie Robertson Huff & Anna Golden

Episode Date: September 20, 2023

Songwriter and worship leader Anna Golden and Sadie Robertson Huff are new friends, and throughout this conversation, they discover how much they have in common: growing up in the entertainment industry, handling fame, serving overseas in ministry with their families, struggles with anxiety, and experiencing hurtful situations by church people in their lives. So how do you stay faithful to the Lord and keep attending church when you've been wounded? Anna shares some of the journey that took her from leading worship in one church to where she is now: leading worship and serving at Shoreline Church in Dallas. She also challenges anyone involved in doing anything on a platform — and especially in front of a congregation — that your ministry is so much MORE than just what you do on stage.  https://www.stitchfix.com/whoa — Get 25% off when you keep everything in your Fix! https://liberty.edu/Sadie — Get your application fee WAIVED when you start your future with Liberty University today! https://give.cru.org/huff or text HUFF to 71326 — Get a free copy of Sadie's book "Live on Purpose" with your gift! -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Visit EdwardJones.ca slash different. What's up, fam? Welcome back to the world that's good. Podcasts, happy Wednesday, everybody. I hope you're having a great week. But per usual, it's about to get better because we have an incredible guest on the pie guest today. My team was super excited about this one because we listened to her music on repeat in the LL office. We have Anna go to the podcast and she has a new album out called

Church and whoo, it is ministering to me. I know it is ministering to so many of you and if you haven't heard it, you got to go check it out. But Anna, we are so excited that you're on the way. Let's go podcast. Oh my gosh. I'm so I've been looking forward to this since my team told me about it. I'm so excited. It's a conversation and you're the best. So this is going to be better. My wins they definitely did just get better. Yes, I love it. I love it so much. Yeah, your team had reached out at one point and said, you know, if Sadie ever wants to do something with Anna, let us know. And I'm like, well, what does she want to do? We can do it all. Tell her to come on the podcast, come to the conference, do all the things. We just love you. And

big fans and also love following you on Instagram. You're so much fun and so cute and beautiful. And then you write this like incredibly deep album that is like getting me all in my field. So you're a well-rounded person. And I'm so excited to get to know you more today. Oh my gosh. I'm am. So let's jump in all the things. Whenever anybody's like, I follow you on Instagram. I'm like, so you definitely know about my cat. You know about how weird I can be on Instagram. I love it. I wish she was here with us today, but we're out of town. I love it. I love it. Well, one thing that I love is like, I think that sometimes like in the church world You can just have this like tendency, especially when you're young to feel like you need to be so serious

You know, because I think that sometimes you equate being serious with maturity But one time I was trying to be like so serious and I was trying to like be you you know, super mature if you will or come across that way. So that the older people in the room would, you know, feel like I'm mature, I guess, and I can handle this. And I remember Louis Gaglietto told me one day he was like, say, you don't need to act older than you are. Like the beauty about you is that you are where you're at. And the authenticity of your age and just the the fun that you bring and the purity that you bring and the joy like

bring that as a gift, you know. And it actually meant so much to me because I was like, wow, like I don't need to get rid of that side of me. That doesn't make me immature that I'm fun or good for your light to have a good time. Like, God put that in us too. And isn't it beautiful that we can come before the Lord dancing and joyful and laughing and all these things that we can also come before Him in our in our heart moments and our the serious times. And I just love that. and you do such a great job You have your little disco ball in your room. Yeah, you're like cat. You're hilarious

You're hilarious and you drop this album. So I want to talk about all the things But before I get ahead of myself, I have to ask you the question of the world. That's good podcast Which is what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given? And I know we draw it like it's hot, right? From the beginning, it's a hard, it's a hard one to start with sometimes. Totally, I was like, man, that's a heavy hit around in a game we love, we love it though.

You know, honestly, I feel like for different seasons and situations that this has changed, but thinking about it, I honestly, when I was 20 years old, I was actually engaged, which a lot of people don't know about me, but some people do if you've been following me for a long time. And obviously, I knew it wasn't the right thing. And I kept having this moment of like, oh,

is this the right thing? And I was asking every mentor in my life, every person I had accountability. And I had one of my mentors sit me down. And she was like, the Lord knows how to speak to you. Cause I kept looking for a dream or a vision or an angel of the Lord. And she was like, your whole life you've been walking

with Jesus and the Lord does know how to speak to you. So learn how to trust that you know he knows how to communicate to you. He's not gonna hide it under a rock. And I was like, that was just such confirmation in me. And honestly, beginning this journey of really trusting Holy Spirit and knowing that when he speaks to me, that I can trust that he's speaking directly to me in a way that I

understand. And I think that that's something that's so beautiful about the character of the Lord. Is he so personable? And then you see like stories to the Bible, the Lord spoke in so many different ways, so many different people, because he knows how to speak to you and give you that information So that was literally saved so much of my life so much germany like Lord doesn't have to speak to me and I do know the answer to this and that's why I keep asking everybody if this is right or not So that was something that I like cherish all the time

I'm like whenever I'm in this crossroads and like Lord I know you know how to speak to me. Would you like illuminate this in my heart in the way that you communicate with me? So that was something that was huge, huge for me. That is so, so good. Wow, I love that. I did not know you were engaged.

Thanks for sharing that. And I think that that's so powerful because I think sometimes like, we all do that. Like, we want to sign. We want it to be so obvious. So you want it to be written in the sky or dream and those are those things are awesome when it happens and it's not that guy can't do that but it is true that like his voice really is enough and you know we can

trust that he is speaking and I think that sometimes we even get lost in the signs and we trust the signs more than we actually trust his speaking and I think that sometimes we even get lost in the signs and we trust the signs more than we actually trust his voice and I have experienced that in my life where I'm getting all these signs, right? Like it seems like, oh because this happened or because that happened and it must be the Lord but there's something in you that says this is not right, you know, but you're almost like trusting the way that it looks or you're trusting like this signs or whatever more than you're trusting the Holy Spirit in your life. So I think it goes both ways. Like sometimes you're not getting signs at all, but like you feel the peace of the Lord in it. And sometimes you're

getting all these like signs, but you don't feel the peace in it. And so I think at the end of the day, whether you get a sign or you don't get a sign, like you can trust the direction of the whole spirit in your life. And I've had to learn that too. And I'm someone that I like. I'm always like asking the opinion of mentors and friends and family, but I also have to learn.

Same, same. Yes, which I think is so good. And there's wisdom in that. And it's great to bring in mentors and friends and gain that perspective. But sometimes I do that because I don't want to have to like make the decision for myself. And I'm worried to like say what I really know is right

because I'd rather someone else tell me. But sometimes it really is one of those things where God's walking something with you like in your life and only you can answer to that, you know, only you can be obedient to that. I love that, that you shared that. One thing I just want to bring up is you talked about how not maybe not everybody knows that you are engaged. And I feel like there's some things in our life that happen where it just feels like everybody knew about this.

Is it so hard to move past, you know, maybe it was on social media or whatever, for you, how was it like getting through that stage of your life and where you're at now? Is it shocking for you to even say some of you don't know that because was there a point in your life where you felt like everybody knows this and how am I going to get past it? That's such an amazing question and I think why that's so amazing is because I remember the struggle and the wrestle of me deciding to call that off in my life had to do so much with optics and had to do so much with like, oh everybody knows and this is going

to be so like embarrassing and it's like that should never be a reason why you would enter into an engagement or the rest of your life. But at that moment, and that isolated time years ago, it was like, this could be the end of the world, and everybody's going to know, and everybody's going to be talking about it. And I look back like seven years later now, and I'm like, man, thank you, Lord, that I'm not in that. And it was like God's best for both of us that were not um and it really is years and time that it takes and you look back and you're like that was a way smaller situation than I gave it credit for in the moment yeah um but just so beautiful and it's like I I was saying this to someone else the other day I was like man I wish I had the knowledge that I

have now a 27 and I'm sure I'm gonna say that was like, man, I wish I had the knowledge that I have now at 27. And I'm sure I'm gonna say that when I'm 40. But I wish I had the knowledge that I had 27 when I was 20 and I was navigating like cutting off relationships or dealing with drama with friendships. Like I look back at things. I'm like, why didn't I forgive that person?

Why didn't I like all these different things? So I look now with the knowledge that I have of like the wisdom being like, hey, that's gonna feel like a sting in the moment and Instagram's not the end of the world and your however many followers is not the end of the world It's like your life is your life and maybe moving forward You don't need to be as public about every single thing. So there's a lot of less than in it Yeah, no, it's definitely super beautiful to be able to look back and see like oh

Yeah, no, it's definitely super beautiful to be able to look back and see like oh Maybe situations that I think that everybody's talking about that everybody's gonna care about is not actually as big as I'm giving it credit for So I don't know if you've ever been watching a show when you just absolutely love the person's outfit So you're, fellas, you're like, man, if I could just dress like them and you wanna kind of expand your wardrobe, I get that look. Sometimes I see Haley Bieber on Pinterest and I'm like, can I just look in your closet? Getting the perfect wardrobe has never been easier

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So try Stitch Fix today. Just go to stitchfix.com slash woe. And you'll get 25% off when you keep everything in your fix. That's stitchfix.com slash woe. Again, stitchfix.com slash woe for 25% off. That's so good, gosh, that's good advice. I feel the same way. I can look back and be like, well, I wish I knew what I know now, then, but at the same

time, so much of that makes you who you are, right? Yeah. Like so many of those things that I didn't do well or I made mistakes in or I kind of failed in are the times that I really found the Lord's healing and like found the Lord's freedom and just started a relationship with God. I mean, I was just telling you before we got on that song from Rita Spinger and Defender was like my song. Like, I would sing that over and over and over again, but I think about that song in a time where I made a mistake, you know, like where it wasn't a good time in my life.

But I'm like, but what came out of that in my trusting God, what came out of that friendship with Him is worth it. And so, you have to give yourself grace for the journey to that. You're on the journey of life, like you're not going to know what you're going to know 30 at 20. And there's a reason for that, you know, you grow and then you become better by 30. And I love what you said, you're like, like yeah maybe I'm not gonna be as public and I think sometimes you know my mom always says people say that people don't change but sometimes we don't still allow them to change and sometimes like people do change like you do make better decisions you're like actually I'm not gonna do that this time

I'm gonna do it differently because I learned from that, it's okay to learn and grow. So I love that. I wanna talk about your life and all the things, but while we're on this topic, one of the songs, Manasa, is just like so powerful in your album church. And especially your testimony right before. And I think it's kind of a book of what we're talking about now,

because it's really just this grand idea that you really can move on from something that hurt you or move on from something that was hard and it actually can even be forgotten. Which I think, you know, I heard it last night. I'm sitting here and I'm like, that's crazy because the things that I thought I would never forget that hurt that would replay my mind every single day. And I thought, am I ever not going to think about this person today? Am I ever not going to think about the pain that it caused? Am I ever not going to have this like,

sinking feeling whenever their name pops up? Like I have forgotten. Like truly, the Lord has brought me out of it. And I have forgotten. But if you would have told me that in the time where it was on a loop in my head, I would have been like, there's no way. And so from two people who have experienced that, like, can you speak into just the power of that song and what your dad spoke over you?

Because I just think it's so powerful. Yeah. I basically a little backstory on me is I grew up in church. And I've been actually working in full time ministry for over 10 years. And it's been my absolute favorite thing. Like I was the kind of kid they just lived in church. Like I really loved it. I was probably so churchy as a kid to the point of where it was maybe an eye, but I just loved it. Like I wanted to be a huge group. I was in every internship. I was also homeschooled. I didn't have a lot else going on. So I was like church, that's my life.

And I feel really fortunate because I really do get to know the heart of the Lord really young. And through serving in ministry growing up and then making the shift of also working in ministry, it's like you see behind the curtain of things and you see that people are people no matter what building they're in, no matter what title they're in, no matter if there's a pastor in front of their name or not. And obviously when I'm younger, I didn't really have the wherewithal or the discernment to know that. So it was crushing.

I remember my first year working in ministry, I mean like people do what? And it was just devastating to me. And I think that over the accumulation of years, like I just started to wear some of it, and I became that person who maybe was a little disgruntled in ministry, and a little more brokenhearted than anything. I talk about this on my record, the difference between brokenheartedness and bitterness,

and sometimes we can label like a hurt heart as a bitter heart, but they're two very different things. And I think that through this certain disappointment, I just kind of wore that on my chest a little bit. And in the fall of 2020, I transitioned off of working on a church staff. And I just kind of, there was this moment where I really looked at my hands, and I felt like the Lord gave me this vision of like looking at my hands full of broken glass. And he was like, are you going to let me pick that out of your hands or you want to keep holding

on to it? And there was part of me that felt like if I let it go that there wouldn't be justice for it, that there wouldn't be like justice wouldn't be served. I need to keep this in front of you Lord. And he was like, no, I want to actually take that from you. Like, let's actually look through your past and look at it a little differently and the lens of someone who's healed. I went into counseling for actually a long, long time, which was super grateful for. I'm a big advocate of all that. I was actually in Colorado for a little bit like day in and day out just being like, all right, I knew I always wanted to be in ministry, but I knew that my perspective of it wasn't healthy at the time and I knew whatever I didn't heal I was going to replicate. So I was like, Lord, I need you to help me. I want to see the church. The entire Bible is this

beautiful imagery of how much the Lord loves us and He calls us His bride, which is the church. And I'm like, why do you still see it like that? Like, why do you talk about the church like this in Revelation and in Acts? Why did you fight for the church even when they were doing these crazy things? Like we see these scriptures and I'm like, Lord, would you show me? And it really started with this song called The Church I grew up in and then the Lord gave me the vision for this record. And through this time, I transitioned to Dallas, Texas. And I started working at a church called Shoreline City, which Earl and Anika McClellan,

I'll probably mention them a million times during this interview, they're my pastors, like my favorite people in the whole world. And I really got to be under pastors with a healthy perspective, and we're not a perfect ministry, but we're just people who love Jesus, who fight for forgiveness, who apologize quick,

who literally just wanna out serve one another. And I remember coming in and being on staff and they gave, they gave me such freedom in the sense of, I remember walking in, I was like, our church is really white too, like our whole church is like a white building with white paint everywhere. And I was like, I feel like I'm like coming in and I'm like, you mud all over me, like I've come from these like different experiences. And they're like, no, you might have come through fire, but you don't smell like smoke. And they really prophesied over me just like, you are such a healthy

leader. You're a daughter of the house. Like we've grafted you in. Like there's nothing that like it's going to change our minds about you here. You're not going to mess everything up like all these things. And I saw through the lens of healthy ministry and healthy leaders, like the way that it really started to heal my past. Like, things that these little cracks in my heart, I knew that when I got out of counseling, I had like scabs, but I didn't have scars yet. So I knew wherever I was going, it could have gotten worse or we could have healed.

So my dad actually came to visit during our anniversary, and he was walking through the hallways, and he mentioned this story of Joseph, and the story of Joseph is my favorite in the whole Bible. I think it's the most stunning example of forgiveness before Jesus enters the scene. And if you've ever been hurt by family, it's like the most violating kind of hurt. And you see the story of Joseph being sold off by his own family,

and the Lord redeems his entire story. And there he is being second in command in Egypt, and the Lord gives him the gift of two sons, the first one named Manasseh, which means to forget. And in the context of the scripture, it means to forget the suffering of my father's household. And his next sound was actually named Ephraim, which means to be fruitful in the land of my suffering. So we see this process of first Joseph forgives, then he forgets, and then he was fruitful. And that's where the heart behind monastic came, because my dad was looking at this church and was looking at kind of a new meat really serving there. He was like, man, and this is your monastic. And we both just just wept because it's like who says something like that only my dad. And I just sat there and I was like, man, I'm so grateful for the gift of being able to forget the things that I literally thought

my entire life I'd be walking with this lamp. I thought from my entire life, I'd see things through the lens of certain pain or certain leaders or triggers or trauma and not to downplay any of that. But I just remember having this moment with the Lord, he's like, I'm so much bigger than you give me credit for. Like I can reach back into your past. And I was like, man, like I'm only looking, I'm only looking ahead of like, okay, I just got to do things differently moving forward.

And Lord's like, no, I can still redeem things in your past. That's like, that's who I am. I'm like, God of reconciliation. I'm a God that works things together for good. So I pull things from the past and rework it into this beautiful story that is now. So I literally like, that's been, even now, it's not just been a one time experience. Like things will happen. I'll be like, Lord, can you give me the gift of manasseh on this? Like, I don't want to see that person through the way that they hurt me. I want to see them how you see them. And would you help me like, remove that?

Like, would you give me the gift of forgiveness, like Joseph, where he sees his brothers? And this first thing he says is come close. And not, I'm going to kill you guys. We can do you guys betrayed me. Like, that's beautiful example of what it looks like. And it's so counter-cultural to like what we're experiencing now. So it's a bit of delusional forgiveness that has been like wrecking my life. Bam, I'm always so excited to talk to you about something that is near to our family's

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choice for me whenever I was taking some classes because my life is really busy and they were so flexible with my schedule. Also like I mentioned my sister Bella does it as well and I've seen her be so successful in it. My brother Will Will, and Genleic went to Liberty University and we just love the school. So if you're looking for an in-person college experience, Liberty has got you covered there too. If you're in grades 11 or 12 or a transfer student, you and your family can attend college

for a weekend this fall to check out Liberty's campus. It's just three days of attending classes, eating in their amazing dining hall, connecting with other students, and learning everything you need to know about Liberty. There are four college for a weekend event every year, and the ones for this fall are September 21st to 23rd. And there's another one November 9th to November 11th.

You can register online through the CFW Portal or call the admissions office at 800-543-5317 to register over the phone. Just visit liberty.edu slash city to get started and because you're a well-that's good podcast listener, you're going to get your application fee waived. Hey yo, so friend, don't wait. Go to liberty.edu slash city now and make this year the year you pursue your dreams. I love that delusional forgiveness. That is so good. Everything you just said is extremely powerful. And I just wanna say, like, I'm sitting here listening to you

and I know you're talking to thousands of people right now who are gonna be listening to this podcast, but you're speaking directly to me. And the things that you're saying are just life to literally my bones. I'm thinking about how whenever I even started this podcast like five years ago, the whole hope for it was that I would be able to be a sister and a friend of those who don't have one and have conversations with people that are hard conversations and good conversations that maybe other people don't

have that person to talk to in their life. Maybe they don't have the sister who's going to tell them the truth. Maybe they don't have the mentor who's going to speak life over them. Maybe they don't have the pastor in their life. How can I bring in a person that can speak to someone in a situation that they're going through that? Maybe they don't have that person to say those words in their life. And it's just like so powerful sitting here and listening to you talk because this is a conversation that is so needed in the church. It's so necessary to talk

about some of these things and to not walk around with bitterness and brokenness and let our scabs here in the scars and talk about forgiveness and talk about the messiness of yes, people, but the beauty of the bride of Christ. And like, this is stuff that I've just never had this kind of conversation with someone about so, honestly and openly, but with no bitterness. Like truly like I'm for the church. Yes, I've been hurt by people.

Yes, things have been horrible. I'm for the church. I'm for God's vision for I want to keep serving and I'm truly like it makes me teary because I'm so grateful that you're saying these things and I'm so grateful as you were talking that like you actually asked God those hard questions and I think that that's something that I don't want anyone to miss that when you were hurt, you didn't like walk away. You leaned in and you said, God, you say that like this is your bride. Like you talk about the the church and acts in this way. And in Revelation and it's beautiful.

And it's this picture of love and grace and like, but I'm not seeing that. Like I'm not seeing the beauty. I don't understand the relationship, like really, like leaning in and asking you out to show you and then opening yourself up enough to trust him enough in your life to walk into the church building again and to be on a staff and to trust people and pastors, which is really hard to do when you're coming from past pain. And so I just think like I just don't want anyone to miss what she's saying like she leaned in to God and that and and I love that because I think sometimes like we just fall into the next church or we run away or whatever it is and like

Neither a really good solution if you don't first just go to the father and Understand his heart for the church and find seek forgiveness That you really that delusional forgiveness that you really only find in him and only find the power to do that through him because he is the best example of doing that for us. So the forgiveness that he's shown us. And the trust, if you would,

to just keep loving us when he knows we're gonna mess up when he knows we're not gonna do things perfectly where we're going to be disobedient at times times like he still loves us and chases after so if we want to be this kind of people finding that in him is so crucial and I just love that you shared that and Earl and I and Eka were actually on the podcast recently so everyone listening got to hear them recently and if you didn't you gotta go back and listen to them because they are incredible people.

And I love that you said, it's not that they're perfect or that everything's perfect, but you're just real people who love Jesus and are quick to say sorry and quick to forgive. And everything you just said is so profound that I just wanted to take a minute and pull out some of those things to make sure people aren't missing

what you're saying and the beauty of it. I want to ask because I was reading some of your story that before you went into ministry and full-time worship leading, you were doing stuff more mainstream and the public guys. So what did that look like for you growing up and you transitioning from doing more things and show business if you will to worshiping in the church. How did that happen? It's so honestly, I sometimes tell my own story and I'm like, is there was any of my life?

I grew up in a family of six. I'm one of four kids. I'm the youngest. So I three older siblings and we grew up like very, sheltered and like sheltered like I didn't listen to secular music all growing up like I didn't even know that why we didn't do like TV like that we're all homeschooled and growing up we actually would spend our summers in Albania and Kosovo Albania helping build homes for orphans and minos I started doing that when I was six so I actually was over the course of my birthday too, which was always fun every year to spend your birthday in Albania. But my parents were really, really intense about us knowing, you know, like get our world

view a little open, which I'm really grateful for. At the time, I was like, I'm six years old and they don't have birthday cake and it's just like tear mousse-sau. So what kid doesn't want a espresso cake on their birthday. Not me, but I loved it anyway. Anyway, so basically all these trips we do in the summer, I remember the very first one is it's going to tie into how my life story started. So six years old, sitting outside this house that we rebuilt for this family in Kosovo, a very warstripping country, and it was a really small home, and only my mom and my sister were able to actually walk through the house, so they walked through

the house, and they came out, and my mom gathered my whole family of six, and she's like, we walk through the whole house, and there's only one thing on the walls of this entire house, and it was a photo of Britney Spears. And I don't even think we knew that was at the time. We're like, okay. And then my mom poses this question, and I was like, what would you guys do if you had that kind of influence?

I would give every dime I have to know what my six-year-old little self said at that moment. But in the movie of my life, it was like playing lands from Albania to Los Angeles, California. And we're in auditions. We're going into the industry, like from not even knowing what secular music is, so we're going straight to mainstream industry.

So it was really, it was a lot of like a shell shot. I was like, oh, this is kind of crazy. Wow. So that was the genesis of my life. And then I think when, I think my brother was 12 years old, and I was 10 at this time, I want to say, I could be getting day thrown a little bit, but Disney Channel had found my brother from my space. This was when my space was a thing and was like, oh, we want you to be on the channel and

do a single next thing. And then that's when my brother and I started doing seven Disney when we were young. And I was like the kid that always wanted to be different, classically. And I was like, I'm not going to be an artist, I'm not going to be a singer like I want to be a veterinarian. And it's like me trying to decide my life story when I'm like a kid is hilarious. But and I had this moment, one of my first most real moments with the Lord, I was 11 years old, I was in a prayer room at my church. And the Lord was like, I gave you a specific gift and that's what you're gonna walk in in your life.

And I was like, I remember I had a little red journal and I was like, wrote that down and then I started writing songs and then that's like the following year Disney had wanted me to do the same thing that they did for Josh. Our family was also in the midst of filming like a reality TV show that thankfully, thankfully never aired. Because my mom was like, my mom was like, like no we're not gonna do this this is gonna embarrass the family I was like yeah because as much as you want to say like we're the most perfect little family it's like once you put the

cameras on you're not and it was never gonna be that pure little wholesome clume by y'all so all that to say that's kind of how it all started. And up until I was about 15 years old, we did stuff with Disney and my brother and I. We were really like actors, but that was kind of something you had to do if you're involved in that. So we're audition after audition and writing shows for us and seeing like,

what movies we can do and all these things. And I have this moment, I actually think it was like Halloween night. We were in Los Angeles. My brother and I are actually about to move there together and we'd become a duo at this point. He was 17. I was 15. I walked in a house. There's all my friends with, I think we're all dressed up as whatever and I just have never felt this function like this from Holy Spirit before and said get out of the house. And I

was like, okay, and I ran out the front of his house. And my brother was like, what are you doing? You look crazy. And I remember telling him, I was like, if we are, we're not consistent in our morals, this is going to destroy us. Like if we're not on the same page of what this is going to look like, I think this is going to destroy us. And I went back to my hotel room.

It was like me, my mom and my brother. And I called my dad, my dad's like my I think this is going to destroy us. And I went back to my hotel room and it was like me, my mom and my brother. And I called my dad, my dad's like my pastor. At this point, I was like crying on the phone. And I was like, I was really, you know, religious at that time still too. And I was like, I don't want to gain the world and lose my soul. And I look back and I'm like, if my future and I'll get with Sanks and I die, I come. But I'm so grateful that like the Holy Spirit gave me that function of like, hey, you could actually be headed down a path.

It's not so great at that time. I had some eating disorder issues. Like when you're in the limelight as a little girl and you're being told things all the time about yourself, it's just like a really hard weight to carry. And I remember my very first concert that I ever did by myself. I did meet great afterwards and I had little girls coming up to me and they're crying. And I was like, I didn't understand it. And I felt like the Lord gave me this revelation of like as creation, we're created to worship and when people don't have the knowledge of Jesus, they misdirect it.

And when when people aim worship, people, it can crush them. So I have so much grace for people who I know like have that aim that them because I'm like man that we're never supposed to be able to receive glory. That's just like not what we've been created for. And then from there we went back to St. Louis. I remember I was doing an internship at a prayer room in St. Louis and two days before I was supposed to move to Los Angeles my brother and I was de-le got pulled. And I just heard my brother at the time was super devastated and I was like, man, this is a Lord. I want to stay here and I want to serve my church and I want to be like a 15 year old, 16 year old and how that look a little different.

And I always stayed consistent and loving music in my craft, but I never thought that I would ever release music or anything like that again. So then the Lord would give me worship songs, but I didn't think that that was going to be something also at that time that wasn't like a market or something that you do like industry wise. Okay. Y'all that everyone listening, we have had some crazy wifi up in here and we've had to start and start. We've literally taken like 30 second laugh breaks just to laugh at how crazy this is,

but here's what I know. I know that so many of y'all need this conversation because I have never had so much diversity up against a piecast when it comes to technology, which I just know that's because this message is important and needs to be heard. But one thing I love about Anna is like she has continued to lean in and not given up on doing this podcast, which I know a lot of people would have out of frustration. So we're just going to jump back in to the story that you were telling of transitioning from being in show business, if you will, to going into the church and you were kind of nearing the time where I think you were 18 where we left off in your church. Yeah, I was like in the middle of that and then I think we just like cut out.

Literally just like black. Just with blank and I was like, Lord, I'm going to swim goodbye if I guys. Anyway, so back to me in my life. I'm very swirmed, good wife, I got it since my... Anyway, so back to me in my life, at 18 I was... Yeah, I led a worship at a conference for one of my friends' dads at the time and it was a conference of worship leaders and I had sung this song that I had written and it kind of went all over, which was really shocking for me at that time. And there were churches kind of all over the US who were singing it and even some out of the country. And my friends, I was like, you need to release this, like you need to get on this.

And I had this moment of like, you could say it was like a little trigger. And of like, since I was a little kid, I learned how to work a room, I learned industry, I knew like strategic relationships and all those things and I hated it like it was just so against my character and like what I wanted to do with my life especially because I was like church has always been so separate from that for me and ministry was such a safe place and kind of the idea of almost meshing those two worlds just freaked me out and I had this moment with the Lord of like okay if you would like me to release this stuff I I never want to be an opportunist. I don't want to do any of that. I was like, any opportunity that you would like to bring if you want

this to be successful, you're going to have to do it. I'm a hard worker. I'm faithful to say at your feet, but as far as like any of those other things, you're going to have to do all of that. And so we, I kind of had this moment with the Lord where we made this agreement. And I genuinely can say every single opportunity in my life from that moment has honestly been God. Like there's been like random emails out of the blue of like, hey my name's Tasha Cobb's Leonard and I want you to come be on my record. And like these things of just randomness and how I've been able to be a part of so many incredible things, it really has been Lord.

I think when we released that single, it stayed on like iTunes charts for four weeks and was on like, it for, I don't know, some 16 weeks, I don't remember any of the stats of that kind of stuff, but I'm like, it blew our minds of what the Lord was doing at that. And I was like, all right God, if you want me to continue to do this You're gonna need to open these doors And it really like my entire what you would say I guess career or why not or influence or anything has truly just been a testament of the Lord

being like all right, we're gonna go here next. We're gonna do this next and it's been so the Lord's been so kind and that way because Like growing up and I know that you grew up in the industry too, and it's like, you learn these things, this is how I need to be. And then I was like, I just can't bring that into the space. I don't want that to be who I am. I don't ever want to look at a friendship with someone

and think, what can we get out of this? Or how can we collab? I want to see people as people, I wanna see ministry as ministry forever. And then Lord, however, you wanna like, put that out there or market it. So it's been honestly wild to see what the Lord is doing, but that's just kinda like a snapshot of all the things.

Yeah, I have truly seen life change because of the power of the gospel. My own life changed personally, and I'm so thankful for that. God is out here changing lives and hearts all over the world and one way He's doing that is through crew. Crew has missionaries in almost every country in the world, which is amazing, sharing the ultimate hope and peace of Jesus. But many of the people they read are missing one major thing and that's a Bible in their

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And as my thank you to you for signing up to help crew, you'll also receive a free copy of my devotional book, Live on Purpose. If you haven't heard of Live on Purpose, it's a daily devotional talking about how you can find purpose in your everyday life because God made you on purpose For a purpose and we want us to need that as a thank you

There's so many of you who have already signed up and we just want to take a sentence to thank you so much Well, that's good fam is amazing and you're changing lives out there But there's a lot more work to do crew needs more bibles to give out So let's keep going y'all we can do this just text huff a2ff to 71326 to help today. Just imagine how much this give could truly change someone's life by just texting huff a2f to 71326 that's huff 71326 to help now or visit give.crucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucrucruc Huff, messaging data rates may apply available to US addresses only. Gosh, I love that. I can relate to so much of that. And I think that, I think that us being in the industry for a time and like actually experiencing that life has, from what I'm hearing from you and the same for me, I think it made me so not like that. Like I hated that. I didn't want any of that.

That when I came into the church world, I'm actually really glad that I experienced that. And it was like, I don't want any of that because I came in with like such a pure heart and pure mind in it. And like, friends or friends, people or people, we have these gifts. And that's amazing. And let's use them to grow the kingdom. But, you know, we're not trying to like promote ourselves. We're not trying to like, I don't know, make something crazy. I'm like, we're just trying to like be faithful to what God's given us.

And we're just stressing that he's doing it. And we're working hard with what he's given us. And I feel like a lot of times in the church nowadays, like that is a temptation for the church. Like they can start like acting like the industry, like looking like mainstream, like all that kind of stuff, but I think coming from that into the church is like, no, actually don't want any part of that.

Like I actually don't want that. I don't want any of the glory. I don't want any of the fame. Like that is what attracts me so much to doing things for the kingdom is that it's not about me. I don't have to have that pressure. I get to put all the attention on God because I can't handle that. And I read something where you said going into the church role was so freeing for you because you realize like the attention is on me, it's on God. And that is exactly

how I felt where I felt at a similar moment where I heard a Christine K message at the time when I was kind of like at the height of fame in the mainstream world and before I like entered the church world fully and I heard this message at passion and she was saying that if the spotlight is shining on you, brighter than the light Jesus from within you, she was like, that light will crush you. And I remember just like sitting in my chair like thinking, I think I'm going to get crushed. Like I have to get out of that light because it is currently crushing me. And I don't want to be crushed by this. And I like need to make sure that the light of Jesus coming out of me is so much like

it's just reflecting off of me and going to him, you know. And so it was just so cool to hear you say that because that's exactly how I felt. And then last year we had our first L.O. conference and it was really cool to just get to host so many people who are used to go into conferences who used to being in church scenes and like freeing rooms and backstage and whatnot and every single person was like this is the most pure Gathering like this is just everyone is just here to worship the Lord Everyone is just here to fill us with one another and create this like sisterhood and this beauty And I was just like man, I'm so glad that you experienced that because that I would not want you to feel anything else.

And I do think because we've experienced it in the mainstream world, it's like we so don't want that, that we get to create this purity in the church world. And not that everybody's like that. There's so many conferences that are beautiful and amazing. And the backstage feels like that. I just say that to say, like, I do think we've learned from that and we don't wanna see that again. And also, I think it's really cool that your parents instilled in you a world view

because my parents were very similar. The time we were 11, we were going to Dominican Republic every single year. And we're still like so close family friends with all the people that we met down there and the orphanage we built. And now the little girl who I used to have like sit on my lap all the people that we met down there and the orphanage we built. And now the little girl who I used to have like sit on my lap all the time, we were like so close,

she's my girl. She also has a baby now and honey is the same age as him. And so we got to go and like, I got introduced honey to him. And it was just like so beautiful and such a God story. But I do think that that helped my perspective just be a lot bigger than myself. And I was the same way I would go from Dominican Republic straight to LA for like red carpet

events and all these different things. And I think that when you see the world for what it is, you see people for who they are, the red carpet just doesn't mean us much. It just doesn't do anything for you because it's like, that's cool. But unless I'm here to be an influence for good and unless I'm here to speak live or be unless I'm here to bring the good news, then there's just really no reason

for me to be here, you know? And I think that that's a beautiful thing to learn at an early age and just for people who are listening to this. Some of you, you might be like, well, I've never been famous, so I can't relate to that. But I think that a lot of you probably relate to the desire, maybe to be famous. And I just want to ask you like that question that her mom asked her, like, what would you

do with that influence? Because fame is just a four-letter word, as Mr. Rogers says. It's like tape or zoom or face. Famous just whatever. But it only means something. If you use it for good, it's like tape or zoom or face, famous just whatever, but it only means something. If you use it for good, it only means something. If you actually take that influence and you do something with it. And then as far as some of you who might feel like, man, I've been trying to push this

thing, I've been trying to go, God, why haven't you opened the doors? I just want to encourage you like, there's a difference in trying to promote yourself and actually just working hard towards something and being obedient. Because I think many of us fall into the temptation of, I gotta promote myself, I gotta get it out there and you're like on this grind and on this hustle, but it says in Psalms, unless the Lord builds

the house, the labor is labor and vain. So that isn't mean that you don't work hard. That isn't mean that you don't lean into your craft and you get the lessons and you do the thing, you wake up every day and you sew your seed. But then you gotta let the Lord build the house. You gotta let the Lord bring the rain. At the end of the day, he's got to give you the platform, if it's supposed to be a platform. And if it's not supposed to be a stage, he gave you the two people in your home. And so I just love what

you're sharing. And I just want to make sure that people are hearing that whether you grew up famous or not, I think we all can relate to these feelings of maybe having this desire or maybe experiencing some of these things and making sure that no matter how we grew up, that our hearts are pure and the things that we're pursuing and things that we're doing. And man, I love what you said. And I just love how God just opened the doors. And it was just crazy. Um, so with your life now, like leading worship, the way that you're leading and stuff, do you still feel like, because I've heard a lot of worship leaders say, like, I have to constantly

lay down my image, lay down my ego to be able to lead in just like a pure organic way. What does that kind of look like for you to walk it out? Because I know we have a lot of worship leaders listening, especially because you're on. How do you constantly fight against getting glory and giving glory when you are on such a big stage and being heard by someone? At Salesforce, we're all about asking more of AI. Questions like, where's the data going?

Is it secure? Are you sure? Are you sure you're sure? Get answers you can trust from Salesforce at AskMoreVai.com. Many people. Man, that's such a great question. I always look, firstly, I always look at scripture, especially when things started to kind of, I don't

know, in a way get bigger. I still try to, I'm so disconnected from a lot of it too, which I feel really privileged of, like when I'm home at my church, there's no one who's like asking me questions or taking pictures or anything like that. And I'm really fortunate that that's like the culture of our church and our house. Because at my church, I'm a prayer partner when I'm a prayer partner. I'm worship leader when I'm worship leader I'm holding the door when I need to I'm helping clean up afterwards. So it's like that Remaining I talk about this a lot. I think I see this often with worship leaders right now

And we kind of have this like orphan evangelist kind of thing because we're not being shepherded and we're not being planted in a house. And I think that when we're not touchable, that's where the stage gets bigger, that's where the fame gets bigger. If I'm not able to lock eyes with people and pray with people and they're like, man, everything is so much bigger than my little thing that I got going on. I always have to remind myself of that. Like after Sundays when we get to lead worship,

we say this to our worship team. Like if you're leading on a team, weaken and weak out, and you're just coming in for rehearsal in the morning and you're leading and then you leave right out the back door at the end, you're missing it. Because if you're not being able to let people touch you, lock eyes with you,

tell you their stories, tell you their testimonies, tell you how, man, when you led that song that actually transformed the way that my life looked, that's what matters. And I think that there were so many years where I was traveling as a worship leader and I didn't create space to be touchable. That's my biggest thing.

I always am like, man, where can I be serving people? Who am I pouring into? Who am I mentoring? Who are young girls on the team who are coming on that I'm taking the time out to get coffee, people are never the problem, people are never in inconvenience. That's literally why we do what we do. Something too that my pastor's talk about, which I love this, pastor Earl talks about this all the time every night before he goes to bed, he gets on his knees and physically

does the act to take you know off his crown. He's like, he's throughout the day, people give you crowns, people, oh man, what you spoke was so incredible. And it's never that weird moment of like only him, only him, you know what I mean? There's not like that false humility of like, no, like you were a vessel and the Lord used you. And so many people have such a pure intention of being like, man, that song you wrote, that book you wrote, that book you wrote, that song that you led or when you did this in our small group, that really meant a lot to me. And being able to like, man, thank you so much. That encourages me.

But at the end of the day, giving it all back. Yeah, it's good. At the end of the day, I don't go to bed with any of my crowns. Like I lay that before the Lord and I'm like, God, thank you for using me in this space. But I'm also reminded that like like it has nothing to do with me Yeah, that's so good and And there's no talent that changes that or or space or stage, but to me that's that's been the biggest thing Of two is like serving in my local church and I always talk to worship leaders too like we we have this

worship leaders too, like we have this era where we get to release music and it's beautiful and we get to put out like the Lord gives us these sounds that we get to put out. But if you're not serving like in a local church, if you're not serving underneath someone else building other vision like and it's all about you, your self-awareness just gets completely off. And that celebrity, it creeps in, it just happens. Because you're the judge, the jury, and you're everything for your own life. But it's like being able to have, when I was growing up, I thought accountability was control.

And now I see it as such safety. And I have, everything I do is submitted underneath Earl and Anika, and I pass everything through them. Like, we're doing this tour, I'm doing this like and it's not from this place of like I can hear people thinking like oh man that's like control and it's like no there's such a beauty in covering. There's such a beauty in being planted. It says in scripture those who are planted in the house of Lord are like trees planted by streams of living water and my favorite part is they grow fruit and old age.

Like we're in such a culture of like your time is this and then you've aged out. And I'm like when we're connected to the body of Christ, like there's no age out, like we're going for ever. Yeah. And it's like such a beautiful picture of like, man, I don't have to listen to, when a woman turns 30 or she loses her influence

or she's, I'm she's like no like I'm playing in the house of the Lord like I'm gonna go fruit to I'm tome dad. That is so good I'm just like yes yes yes because I do feel like especially nowadays like you feel like there's this pressure to say relevant say whatever and at the beginning of this year I felt like the Lord kind of like leaning into social media for a of this year, I felt like the Lord kind of like leaning into delete social media for a little while. And immediately I'm like, okay, that's fine.

Because personally I'm like, that's great. I could get rid of it. But then the second thought's like, oh, but that might not be good. Because what about all things that I'm doing and like, how am I gonna let people know? And then will I not be relevant anymore when I come back and you're gonna lose all these far's whatever. And like, even though I say like, how am I gonna let people know? And then, will I not be relevant anymore when I come back? And you're gonna lose all these fars, whatever.

And like, even though I say, like, oh, I don't really care. But then, like, when you go to do it, you're like, but do I care? And why is this so hard, you know? But then, I took seven months off this year. And it was like the best thing ever. And I was so present with my family. I thought about that verse.

That's me and Christian love that verse. And we love songs one, two, and three where it talks about being like planted by stream of living water. And those who meditate on the word, it talks about, you know, you're always bearing fruit in every season. And I'm like, man, that is the beautiful thing about God.

Like, it's not that you're just gonna time out. Like, he's the off in the omega, the beginning and end. Like, he goes from glory to glory to glory. Like he's gonna keep going. This mission's like always on, like came to earth and I can be a part of that always. And I always say like if God never gives me one more cool revelation to drop in a sermon.

If I like, I just better be preaching the gospel like for the rest of my life. And if I just preach like preach like so good the gospel and I don't know what to say and I just open the book and read exactly what it says. There's no better words that I could say. There's no more relevant thing that I could preach like I don't have to strive in his kingdom ever because I just get to be who I am and I just get to go to work with my dad and what a gift. And so I love that you said that. It's just so awesome to take all the pressure off of us to know that when we're doing a ministry

or working with the Lord, it's not the same as working in the world. I literally had a call yesterday with an agency and I'm grateful for agents and what they do and everything but there was a moment at the end she's like okay like if you want to grow more following we can help you with the algorithm and how to do this and that and I just said I appreciate that and I'm so grateful for all the tips and stuff but that's just not where my heart's at right now I just want to be

authentic to who I am. I want to do this in the most authentic way. And if it grows, that's awesome, but I'm not striving to do that. I'm not trying to hack an algorithm. I'm not up against Instagram. You know, that's not my battle, you know, and it is really freeing just to kind of lay that down and just be like, I'm the battle is not between flesh and blood, it's not between me and social media, it's not between me and the platform, like, I'm sitting here and surnard to what God wants to do in my life.

And so, and I say all that, that, that's easier said than, than done. It's hard to really put that trust in Lord whenever, like, there's so much pressure from the world and so much pressure from a boss or so much pressure from an agency or management or whatever. And so, but it's just so good to speak that truth out and to actually live it. And you're just such a good example. I love what you're sharing and love how you're walking it out, how you're living. It is extremely encouraging. It's a breath of fresh air.

And I know people have learned so much from this podcast, but if nobody did, I learned a ton. And I know people are gonna cling to this as just pure wisdom from a friend, but again, it happened here first and I'm so grateful for that. So Anna, thank you for being on the podcast. Thank you for working through all the life.

I thank you for writing an epic album that everyone can go listen to now and cry the tears I need to cry. And then go on your Instagram and laugh until they cry. And so we're grateful for you. And this is a great conversation. Oh my gosh, thank you so much. I'm so honored. Like this has encouraged me more than you know too.

I just love the idea of like the conversation man it's just can be that simple and even like if you're listening to this right now like let it encourage you like let it connect to you let it like push you forward because man this even like to speak of the things of God is to honor him to praise him like stunning so super grateful awesome thank you so much and congrats on all the things that's going on in your life. The best. you