WHOA That's Good Podcast - How to Take Control of Your Thoughts (For Real) | Sadie Robertson Huff & Jennie Allen

Episode Date: January 28, 2026

When Jennie Allen and Sadie link up, you know it’s going to be powerful. In this special episode, they dive into the revival happening across the U.S. and around the world, how to start sharing Jesus, Gather25, unforgettable dreams, and real talk on fear, anxiety, and what to do when your thoughts start spiraling. Jennie speaks from experience — she knows firsthand how heavy and exhausting anxiety can be — and she opens up about the moment she decided fear would no longer run her life. That decision led her to write "Get Out of Your Head" several years ago and now she's written a children’s book all about taking charge of your thoughts. Grab your copy of Jennie’s book, "What to Do With Your Whirly, Swirly Thoughts," now! This Episode of WHOA That's good is Sponsored By: https://liberty.edu/Sadie — Get your application fee WAIVED when you start your future with Liberty University today! https://gominno.com — Get your first month FREE when you use code WHOA at sign up. Take advantage of this web-only exclusive offer today! https://liberty.edu/Sadie — Get your application fee WAIVED when you start your future with Liberty University today! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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What's up everybody? Happy Woe. That's Good Wednesday. I hope you're having a great day, but per usual, it is about to get so much better because we have one of your favorite guests and my favorite guest back on the podcast. We have my friend. and mentor Jenny Allen. Welcome back, Jenny. I love hanging out. Sadie, this is so fun. It's so fun. And today we're going to talk about a million things because, you know, when we get together, that tends to be what we do. Actually, just the other night, we were together at the U version, which was like the most incredible thing, celebrating a billion downloads. And we're trying to get back to the room. But of course, we see each other, so we have to chat. And we go from zero to

100. It's like, how is your spiritual life? What is your prayer life against this warfare? And our husbands are like, what? Right. While Christian is holding 17 bags for your kids, trying to get up the elevator, Zach had to come separate us because he was watching Christian. He was like, boy needs to get upstairs. Let them go. He would have never done anything, Sadie. He was so patient and so great. I love him so much. He was standing there with all those bags just by the elevator and I'm like, have kit just hanging on me. She's like, it's 11.30 at night and we go in and Zach's like, hey, on behalf of everyone here, we love y'all. I'm glad y'all are having fun. Y'all can call each other. It was so funny.

Not now. Well, now we have plenty of time to talk. But also one thing I'm very excited to talk about is your new children's book, Worley, Swirley, Swirley Thoughts, How to Deal with Your Worley Swirley Thoughts. And what's really cool about this and we're going to dive into this in a little bit. But what's cool is, too, like there's so many listeners right here who don't have kids, but who struggle with anxiety. And I just want to say, Jenny has a book for adults on anxiety. Get out of your head. And then she also has a book for kids. And so it's amazing. But even listening to the kids book, I was like, man, I can take from this. I would actually encourage even adults to read it because sometimes, you know how Jesus says, like, unless you become like the little children. And

I do feel like even as a parent, whenever I begin to simplify things for them to understand, sometimes I actually have a deeper understanding of it. And so there were some things in the kids' book that it was like, you know, you are the boss of your mind, like little things like that. And I know you put it in the other book, but reading it in a fun way and in an, you know, illustrated way, actually sinks in your heart as well. So we're going to talk all about anxiety and just a little bit, Jenny. But first, you've been like literally all over the country with something called Unite. And getting to follow along on Instagram has honestly been such a joy. I said it in the prayer and I want to say it again.

Like getting to be alive at the same time as you is very exciting because you're such a revivalist. Your faith is so big. You're a yes girl to God. And seeing you like show up in all these places and seeing what God is doing through you guys has been really epic. So can you share a little bit about what you're seeing on college campuses? Wow. Yes. I would love to because it really is one of my favorite things I've ever done.

And I go back to 2018 when I was at Texas A&M speaking for breakaway. And that was the first time Gen Z was in the room. And that, you know, they had gone to college. That was like the first year. And it was magical. And I felt it. And nobody had said that they had showed up. Nobody had a name for them yet.

but, or I didn't know it. Nobody was talking about you guys the way that they do now. And so I remember speaking and afterwards, I just gave a moment for people to reply. And we were in the arena and people started yelling out their sin and they wouldn't stop. We were there for an hour while they were, you know, in the darkness with their roommates, with other, you know, friends from class. Like they weren't afraid and they were yelling it out.

And I remember I walked home to our hotel. and I was like, okay, what just happened? Wow. And it just kept happening. And so I do believe there's something very special about your generation. The same message a year earlier, it didn't hit the same. You know, there's something about your generation that wants God. And so fast forward, we continue to see just magical things happening with you guys.

My friend, Tanya, invites me to speak at Auburn with her. And this was her very first event. she'd ever thrown and she invited me and Jonathan McCluda and we weren't sure about it, but we went and it was just a miracle. We saw so many people come to Christ. We saw repentance in the room. We saw, you know, baptisms at the end of the session. We were like, hey, let's go down to this pond and see what happens. I know you have such a passion for that too. And then it just, it took off. You know, people saw it on Instagram, Fox News, I believe, covered it. And all these universities began to reach out and just ask if we could come. And so I think now,

you know, over 20 events have happened at mostly secular colleges. We've baptized. I mean, thousands and thousands, you know, tens of thousands have responded to the gospel. It's, it's been a miracle and it really has been fun to be a part of. That is the coolest thing ever. It really is like the coolest thing. It's what like we, pray for, believe for, and then to see it happening 20 times and you know God will just continue to do it 20 more as long as you keep showing up, as long as the gospel is preached. Like people are going to respond. It's so acts. It's like, you know, they preach the word and then they're like, what do we do about it? Let's get baptized. It's incredible. Repent of your

sin and get baptized. Like it is so Bible days coming to life. Simple. Yes, it is. I just think we've got to go back to these old things. And I want to encourage anybody. listening that's like, gosh, that's so cool for her. That's so cool for, you know, Sadie that she gets to speak at all these events and watch God move and baptize these people. Let me just say this is happening also in local churches. This is happening in living rooms. This is happening. I mean, we're getting pictures from girls that will lead if gathering in their home and they'll be baptizing people in the bathroom, you know, bathtub. So, you know, I just, I think we all need to be ready for revival. And it is one of my passions is to equip

people for it. Because, you know, until you've experienced it, you just, you're just, you feel like, I could never do that. The reality is we can all share our faith. Yeah. We can all give the hope of Jesus to people and people are hungry. And that's what people need to realize is, is your Uber driver actually is willing to talk about God. It would surprise you. And people in your life, your friends that you think would never, all of a sudden, they kind of are. I mean, it's a unique moment where it does feel like there's a hunger for God. Jenny, I love that you said that about people watching this, you know, on Instagram being like, I want to be a part of that.

How can I be a part of it? Cool for them that they get to be there. But actually, that's so true how you said it can be in your home because back in high school, before I was ever preaching, speaking, people knew me for that. I was leading a Bible study. And then, so I'm from Louisiana. So I was leading a Bible study here. And then my cousins lived in Alabama.

And I was going there a lot. And they were like, will you lead a Bible study here? And I was like, sure. So we started leading a Bible study in Alabama And then They were like, okay, this is so good Let's do one for the middle school too Because my younger cousin was in middle school

So I ended up leading at middle school high school Bible study No, it was so fun I don't say this to like be like, look at me But I say it's to say it really That really is how it works Then one night I just love it

I mean it was epic So we're all in the house And it was actually like really sad Because basically back in the day Twitter was like the thing and people started talking bad about the girls who were at this Bible study because they're like, oh, they're at this Bible study and look at what their life is really like. And it was really sad.

So anyways, it became a really unique opportunity, very vulnerable night to talk about some of the stuff that they were living in, but also like, hey, you know what? That's okay. Like, no shame for that. I love how you always say there is there for no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Like all have sin and fallen short of the glory of God. But now let's talk about, you know, repenting of that. I was talking from that.

And one girl there actually said, you know, my parents aren't really believers, but I want to give my life to Jesus. And we baptized her in the bathtub that night. And we're like, you know, in high school. And it was epic. And I'll always remember that. And so that's actually true. Before, you know, I was getting to be a part of these big moments of baptism, like that was just as big of a moment. Like the impact is just as significant.

And so that is very true what she said, like open up your home, open up your dorm room, wherever you're at, you know, wherever you're at. Like I said, I was in Alabama, so that's where it happened. It could have been in Louisiana. It could be anywhere. And it's so true. People are so much more open to the Bible. I feel like I used to be a lot more nervous to bring stuff like that up to people, but I actually feel like now I'm so convinced that this is the good news, that this is the hope that we all need. that I'm like, why would I be afraid?

And I just recently was with somebody who's not a believer. And I was like, you know, kind of feeling nervous to bring up the Bible, which sounds funny, but I know everyone understands that because I just didn't know how she was good to receive it. Well, then she starts telling me that her parents are both struggling. One has cancer. One has heart disease. And I was like, okay, who am I to like withhold the hope of heaven? Like, who am I to like withhold the best news?

So then I ended up buying her Bible. We had such a cool conversation, and she received it, like a huge thank you. Like, thank you for giving me this. Thank you for loving me enough to see me in this. And so just affirming everything you're saying. It's so true. People are hungry for the Word of God, and God will meet you anywhere. And it's amazing to see how he's meeting kids on college campuses, starting with repentance, like you said.

And I actually remember when you went to break away that night and you told me about it, you're like, Sadie, it was unbelievable. They just confessing sin. said, and it wasn't like lights in. It was like, for real. Like, heavy stuff. Oh, yeah. They were yelling out. They were yelling out abortion. They were yelling out sexual addiction. They were, I mean, with their friends and roommates, which happened later at Baylor again. Like, and I just, I think I, the Lord has humbled me in this and just made me trust the things he's called us to do. And, and let me just say this, too, about baptism. There's something to it. There's something. I'm not

saying it's more than it is. you know, it is a symbol, but we are called to it for a reason. And when you go under that water and you've been walking in sin and you are trusting Jesus, these, you know, students are saying over and over again the same thing. I just want to be clean. Yeah. I just want to be clean. And I love that he gave us a symbol that is so visceral that you go under the water and back up. And I know you do baptism, so a lot of events as well. And I just think we got to keep doing those things he called us to do because there is something to it. Now, It's weird as heck.

If you really think about it, we're all used to it. If you've grown up in the church. But, you know, my Buddhist person that will often give me a massage, she was like, why are your shoulders so tight? And I've had to be like, she's like, what do you do? And I was like, have you ever heard of baptism? She was like, no. I tried to explain it because my back is just, you know, I'm doing it all night long and

bending over. And she was like, that is so weird. I was like, yeah, but, you know, it opened up an amazing conversation. So I just think there is something so special about it. There absolutely is. If you follow me for a while, then you know I'm always talking about trying to love people well, not just with words, but with action. And that's why I am so grateful to share about Love One International.

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I would love for this podcast to be known as some people who do stuff like this. On the note of saying yes to God, I want to talk about Gather 25 for a second because that was the most insane, like, coolest experience ever. I just felt like, okay, wow, God, this is revival. Like, this is amazing. Like, look at your church. This is so beautiful. And, you know, you can just get so in your little world sometimes. And yes, we have social media.

And I think social media kind of sometimes makes you think you're seeing the world, but you're not. You're still seeing your algorithm, your little pockets. And then you see something like that. And it's like, you're the same God to all of these people. And you love us all, but you're also. personal. It was just the coolest thing ever. It fired me up in such a new way. It was amazing. So tell me just a little bit about saying yes to God to do gather. And also, if you will tell

this story, I love the story of like you having to raise that much amount of money and how much you had left and how the all came through. So tell us a few like God highlights of that whole experience. Well, first of all, yes, like it was a miracle. And just so you know, we were in different countries, everybody. So this, the event is, we go live in March of 2025. And we go live and we go live from the U.S., but then we go live from seven events across the world. So it was insanity. For 25 hours. To imagine, you know, passing the baton to New Zealand and they pass the baton to Asia and they passed the baton to Africa, you know, it just went around the world. Well, Sadie was in London. And so we experienced this on two different continents. But what I can say

is that it was a work of God. And, you know, it just, you don't, you don't do something like that in your own power of strength. We had never, the church of the Olympics, nobody had ever live translated into that many languages. We live translated into a. 86 languages. 85 of the languages were used. And then you think about song lyrics. We were singing together across the world at the exact same time. And every lyric had to be translated live into different languages.

So it was truly the first time the global church could ever sing together because of AI. AI helped us. So it really was such a moment. And 7 million people participated. It was incredible. And we will do it again. Gather 27 is happening. We're really excited about it. We're already working on it. But it was terrifying. And to be called to something like that. So I want to go back because this is where the story gets so interesting and cool. And God is I had a dream, a vivid dream in April. I believe it was April of 2022. And I dreamed that we were on a cruise ship and there were bad guys. They were all dressed in suits and they were fighting us. And Chris Kane, Kane swears that she was fighting beside me. And I sure she was. I didn't see her. You were in the

dream, Sadie. Some people were. And so I end up, we're losing. And a clock pops up. This one demon looks down at me and this pushes a button and this clock, clock pops up and it begins to count back 10 years. And I knew in the dream that was 10 years until Jesus came back. Run off the boat. I go where I can see sailboats as far as I can see and they're all the exact same. And I start running on boat and saying, come, like Jesus is coming back. We have to work together. We have to figure this out together. And you were on one of those boats. And so after I wake up from this dream, and there was a lot about the dream that was really special. And helpful as it went on. But I woke up and I thought, we need to gather the global church, which just should have stressed me out, but it didn't because

it just felt like it was from God. And I was like, if this is from God, he'll do it. I've already learned this from if gathering. I've already learned when you listen to God, like he's going to help you accomplish it. And so fast forward, I take time off in the summer, and I haven't really told many people about the dream. But I felt like my first step was to tell the people that were in the dream. And it was John Mark Comer. It was you. It was a guy that ended up funding millions of dollars at the event. I mean, it was bizarre, like who was in the dream and how God connected me to them and all that. Of course, you and I were already friends. So you were just on my list. Like, I just had to tell the people in the dream, you know, and I had no real clarity of what we were about to do.

And so I call Sadie. I'm sitting in my dentist parking lot. I'll never forget it. I was walking in the warehouse over there when you call me, obviously not knowing what you were about to say, but I was like, yeah, let's catch up. So I just went to walk in the warehouse. So I share the vision in more detail than I just shared it with you guys. And then you're just quiet. Like you don't say anything. And I'm like, is she still there? So then you can tell your side of it. So this is actually crazy because I've never shared this publicly and I'm glad we are.

But to be completely honest, I was very quiet because I was like a little stunned because what I'm about to share about why it shocked me so much actually was something that had really shaken me up. So I feel like now I'm sharing it and I'm smiling and I'm like, this is so cool because I've seen what God has done and connecting Jenny's dream and gather and it's just amazing. But at the time, I was kind of scared. It felt like a very overwhelming thing because in 2021, May of 2021, it was three nights after I had honey. So I just got home from the hospital, like fresh and postpartum.

I'm talking three days after I had honey, my first child. I went to bed and, you know, you're barely sleeping when you first have a baby anyways. And I have this extremely visual dream. And I was on a boat. And I was on a boat. and so was a lot of other people. And all of a sudden, on like every TV, on every boat and also like around the world, I could tell that everyone in the world was watching this thing on the TV.

And specific people. And all of the sudden it started showing us like this flash of all of these like bad things that have been happening in the world. And it was all things that I have recently seen on the news. And then some things I hadn't seen yet. and all of a sudden it was Priscilla Shire and she was preaching and she was saying, do you not see the signs of the time? Do you not see the signs of the time? And then all of a sudden Priscilla like kind of morphed into Priscilla's mother who had just passed away,

but I actually never met Priscilla's mom. So it was really interesting that she was in the dream. And then she said, wake up. Like it like, and she kept saying like wake up, don't miss this. don't be sleeping, don't be caught sleeping. And it was like this whole message of wake up a sleeper. So there was a lot of other details to the dream that I won't share. But for the most part, that was the heart of it. And so when Jenny had called me and she was describing her dream of different people speaking or, well, her vision of gather, she starts kind of pitching it, but she was telling me her dream of we were all on these cruise ships and we were fighting the demons and the timing in the 10 years.

And that was... And there's a clock. And it was like everything I had in a dream a year ago that quite honestly completely freaked me out. And I'll share a little bit more of my side of it because that dream really shook me again for more details and I didn't know what to do with that. I didn't wake up and go, we need to get out of church. I woke up and said, God, I feel like you just gave me an overwhelming vision.

I have no idea what the next step is. And I just had a baby. so I'm trying to like figure out how to like literally breastfeed right now and figure out how to like be a mom and I don't know what to do with this huge vision. Well, that dream kept me on my knees like literally I would cry and pray into that dream often up until August of that year. So I was made in August. I didn't know what to do with it anymore. And so I texted Priscilla Shire at midnight because I couldn't sleep because I would go to bed thinking about that dream so often. And I texted Priscilla.

I was like, hey, I had a dream three months ago. I don't know what to do with it. All I know is that you were in it and I just need to tell someone who was in it. So similar to you. I was like, I just have to tell someone who was in it because maybe you can help me through it. And so she immediately calls me midnight

and she's like, I want you to tell me everything that you saw. So I tell her and then after I told her, I felt like such a relief. Okay, someone else knows and just I don't really know what to do with that except for pray and someone else knows and has it. So when you called me a year later, I was like, oh my gosh.

And then gave an action. for like what we can do with kind of that pressing feeling. Like what does that mean that the time is now? What does that mean like to wake up and not be caught sleeping? And it just gave like action behind it. And I'll never forget Jenny when we met at Passion Conference that year. And we were like shaking. David Platt was there.

We were just like, man, this is a moment in history that we're going to get to be a part of. And we're going to go for it. And it was so cool. It was really one of the craziest experience. ever. There's something about the start of a new year that makes me want to reset our rhythms, our routines, and the types of content we're consuming. The content we choose now really does set the tone for the year ahead, so I try to be really intentional with the shows that I watch, but more importantly, what I let my girls watch, and that's why I love Minnow. Minow makes it so

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for free. I know you're going to love it as much as we do. Let me give everybody some context and really invite you into what God is doing on earth right now. So first of all, Priscilla Shire opened Gather. She was the first speaker. And that was just, I think that was for me and you, Sadie, just that, you know, that was just a gift. And to say that Gatherer. She doesn't say yes to anything was actually on like everybody's phone and on every TV because t b and sponsor um you know on our you version apps that now we just talked about how a billion devices so that was like the cool thing we literally seeing these dreams it's like this is what to do with what's happening in the world and so yes i love i love yes invite everybody into what is happening because this is this is crazy

so let me just say this that that we don't know right let me be clear when you you have dreams like that. And you kind of know, like, okay, that was unique. And I believe that was from God. I think both of ours were, especially because they were so similar. And then you helped build my faith because what I was going to have to do was so terrifying. And so I really helped me that it was kind of the Lord months later after I'd had my dream confirming. Like, I'm not, I'm not being unclear. Like, you need to do what I've called you to do. But I do believe the time is short. And I don't know that the time is eight years from now, seven years from now, nine years from now, but I know that it's short. And I know that we should live urgent, all of us.

And so what it has helped me to do is it hasn't put fear in me. It's put excitement and a recklessness and restlessness of just who cares. Like, who cares what people think? Who cares if they're offended? like let's just go let's just do the things God's put in our hearts to do and I say that to you because most of my life I was not visible but I was obeying God so I was leading a Bible study in my home like you were I was I was ministering to people in my neighborhood and I really believe the reason gather was important and will be in the future and what we're going to all do what L.O. is going to do what passion is going to do, what all of us are going to do on Earth unite, is we're going to take what we've got and we're going to maximize it for the gospel for one reason, not just

for our own altar calls, but to release missionaries all over the earth. And so every person listening right now is called to that. When I am thinking about the end game of gather, and when I woke up and thought about why would we gather the whole global church, it was not for a cool event. It was not so that millions of people would sing together, although cool, you know, that was amazing. It was so that each person would recognize that they are part of this story because the greatest way to change the world, the greatest way to see the gospel go forward is to go share Jesus. If all of us did that, you know, we would reach the world. And so I just think if we all obey God where we are, I just don't want to overwhelm people with like,

I haven't had a dream. I would say to the Lord, speak to me. God, would you give me a dream? After I had that dream, I had not had very many like that. And I asked, you know, a friend that does have more. I just said, what do you do about that? He was like, ask for more. And you can't trust them. You have to test them. You have to make sure that the fruit of it isn't fear or causing you, you know, the enemy can use that too. So, so I just want to tell everyone, like, this is not something that's special that happened for Sadie and me. This is something that as believers, we all should crave wanting to be part of this story right now. Yeah. And also, I will say, when God gave me that dream, like I said, I didn't do anything about it. And besides pray and call Priscilla months later, because I didn't know what to do about it. And then when Jenny had the dream and had the idea for Gather, I wanted to help in every way I could. But also I'm like, I'm a mom.

I'm like, I have two little kids. I'm trying to figure out this life. Like, I want to help in every way. So let me be a part, but I knew it wasn't mine to carry. And so everybody does have a part. Everybody has a part. Maybe that's like Jenny, and it's to lead it. And maybe it's to be a part of or help affirm or help pray or help link arms.

And maybe whatever your part looks like in your sphere of influence, that's what you have to ask the Lord. And it's funny about the dream thing because Christine Kane, speaking of, she gets so mad about this. because she's like, I'm more charismatic than all of you, and y'all have the dreams. But Allison, too, just on the note of dreams, because I've never talked about this on the podcast, but I definitely am a dreamer. I've had a couple of dreams like that that have been very visual, that have, they've all had the same tone of I knew the Lord was speaking and kind of like made me literally shake because it was like a fear of the Lord.

God, what are you showing me? But also, being a dreamer, I have a lot of really crazy dreams, too. Like, nightmare, have nothing to do with anything, totally random. Maybe I ate something weird. So it is something to discern, you know, if that dream is from the Lord, if it's not. I think the enemy can also kind of weave his way in there, because I have a lot of very scary dreams like last night. I literally had a nightmare. It woke up at three, didn't go about to sleep until 4.30 because I was scared. I just want to be completely honest about that because, and Christian was praying over me this morning about my dreams. And so that is something that I am always wanting the Lord to speak to me in. But sometimes when you carry that, it comes with this other side of it. And to speak to the timing of when Jesus is coming back, again, no one knows. We don't know the day of that hour. But I love that. Jenny says, I want to live like he's coming back in 10 years. I hear you say that all the time. And it's like if I'm going to live like, that, then this is what I'm going to do with my time. And I had another dream that I was just

thinking of that I hadn't shared. And again, this is not about the timing. It could be any time. But I feel like the Lord gave it to me for that same urgency, that it was me, my mom, and my grandma. And all of a sudden, we're sitting at the farmhouse. And it just all of a sudden starts to begin to fill with water. And we were not scared at all. It was like water was coming and the sun was getting brighter and we were going, it's happening, it's happening, he's coming. We were getting so excited. We were sharing with each other and we were like, it's happening and we weren't scared. And I remember being so thankful God gave me that picture because it felt like, okay, he's coming back and it was like a generation thing, but I wasn't afraid at all. I was excited. And so again, I want to share that

too because if you get anxious about like, okay, we all talk about Jesus coming back, but then when we think about it, we're like, wait. Like, this is crazy. For me, I'm like, kids only three months old. Like, he comes back now. What does that look like? Don't let your mind go there. Like, faith, friend, have faith, my friend, and just know that, like, it's going to be so good. It's going to be so good.

There's a book called Imagine Heaven, I think it is, or Heaven. I'm going to make sure I get it right, and I'll link it in the show notes that I read. It gave me so much peace during that time as I was kind of starting to be afraid and not, sadly, I was more afraid than I was excited. I had to reposition my heart. I had to get to know what heaven was a little bit more. I had to get to know who God is a little bit more. So I'm going to link that for you guys as well.

I mentioned at the beginning we're going to talk about anxiety. And I feel like this is a great segue because, Jenny, we've talked about, you know, unite and gather. And when you look at someone like you, you go, oh, she is like the most filled with faith, bold person you could ever meet. You would seem like the person who would laugh, scoff at the face of fear, like, L-O-L. but you actually do struggle with anxiety. Talk to me about how do you struggle with anxiety, but you also have so much faith in boldness. Talk to us about it.

Oh, man. Please answer that for me. It is, because it's real. I'm not faking. I'm the worst faker ever. I could never act. Like, I could only do like anything that is reality because I can't pretend. So that's, that's served me well in this life.

that I'm leading because I think people relate to that. And both of us, I think both of us are honest about that and about whatever's hard. And so I would just say, you know, even this week, guys, for two full days, I physically felt tightness in my chest and I am working on a new project that I'll release soon and I was living everything I wrote against in that project. And so I just, I don't know the answer. I don't know why I still, faith isn't the overwhelming only force in my life. It is an overwhelming force in my life, but I have still really struggle with anxiety. And sometimes it's in my body, sometimes it's my mind racing. Sometimes, you know, and this is what I've learned. It's not to resent that feeling, but to go to Jesus with it. I think I would be an

arrogant prick if I didn't struggle so hard with things. I think I would be like, oh, yeah, like, look at my life. I gathered the world, you know, I don't know, but I don't feel that way at all. Instead, I feel like a wimp and like I can't believe, you know, every day of my life and just I stand in all of God. And I feel like how on earth could you ever use me? And, and I think part of that is a grace because I want to depend on it. I don't want to think. think I'm better than I am. I don't want to be someone that gets ahead of God. I want to be someone that needs him and is kind of holding on for dear life. My life analogy the last few years has been, I'm Lucy and Narnia on the back of Aslan and I'm holding on to the main and we're just going

wherever he says. And, you know, that feels pretty fitting. Like a lot of days, I just, I still feel like a little girl almost in my mind of my 12-year-old self will come back in and take over, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And then. And then. And then. And I've also done a lot of work. And I've, I've really grown. And that 12 year old no longer is to boss of me. And I actually have 40-something that is very secure and very in love with God and very full of faith that I can also say, you know, to that 12-year-old, like, it's okay. Like, I know you're afraid.

But we got work to do, girl. Like, come on, let's go. And I think as I've done that work of healing from my past and the fears that really took root when I was really. young, that has gotten, my boldness has grown and I have gotten more healthy. And fear no longer is ruling my story. Yep. However, it's still there. It's still a foe. Yeah. And it's there, you know. No, I think that's so helpful to hear because I totally agree. There's something about a new year that makes you really start to think about what's next, new goals, new plans, and for a lot of people that includes school. Whether that's you or someone you love, I want to tell you about

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I've said this before. I'm like, if I went back and rewrote, live fearless, I would change the title to not be like fearless, but maybe I'd put a little breaking it fear less because I feel like it's not that like you ever are completely gone with fear and actually I wouldn't want to be because I think one, there's a natural feeling of fear that just, you know, gives you wisdom. Like, hey, something's scary and dangerous.

Don't do that. discernment. But then also like fear keeps me dependent on God. Like like you said, don't resist that feeling. Just lean into it. Just that's where you meet Jesus. I literally spoke to 50, 6th graders or middle schoolers this week at our local school. My heart was racing literally. Like I was so, that's way harder than passion. That is harder. I was so nervous. And then I spoke to some high schoolers, small, local, scared to death. Then we went to U-Version and there's like 12,000 people. And I'm not going to lie, I didn't feel near as nervous as I did when I was at the high school and the middle school with all of those little eyes, like right there on me yawning and

looking bored to death. And so I'd say that to say, I was like, thank you God, though. Thank you that I feel afraid right now. Thank you that feel nervous, you know. I don't ever want to be to a place where I'm like, oh, I've got this. Like, no, I want to be dependent on you, Lord. And that's like the cool thing whenever you feel called to something, anything, if it just feels bigger than you. It can be as big as gather. It can be as big as talking to 50 middle schoolers. It can be as big as a moment with your kids that you feel like this is significant. And it's going to require strength I don't have. You know, it's got to require the Holy Spirit speaking through me. And I think that's actually a really good place to be and a cool place to be. So fear does not put you out of the

picture. If you go through the Bible, God says so many times, do not be afraid. But the reason he said that is because the person he was talking to was afraid. Like, I think we should note that that it's right. He knew that we were going to be afraid. What he's calling us to is bigger than us. When he's calling us to, it requires his spirit to intervene. And so it's okay that you feel fear. It's just not okay if the fear stops you from doing it. That's right. That's it. That is it. And it's been so cool. I'm so glad that we're talking about your book because for me, at first, when I started seeing tendencies of anxiety rise up and honey, I started beating myself up. I'm like, oh, like, she got that for me. I was like so sad for her because I was like, no, like that's such a hard thing to struggle with. And she's so cautious and

scared. And then something like flipped in me one day when she was, I posted this video on Instagram. It was, you know, maybe two years ago. And she was about to go down a slide. And she was so scared. And I started talking to her and I was like, honey, say, I am Honey James. Say, I will not be afraid. And I started like giving her the words to say. And then she's like, I am Honey James. Do not fear for I am with you because we always quote that verse. And then she slides on the side.

I know. She's so incredible. So she slides on the slide. And when I saw that video, something like flipped in my brain of not being sad that like, oh, I gave her that. But actually being like, oh, I'm so thankful. I am her mom and I've gone through this and I'm working with the Lord still to overcome it and I can teach her how to do that too. And it's so amazing like honey was praying the other night and man, she prays such

beautiful prayers and every night she prays for peace. And I'm like, I love that at four years old. She knows how to pray for peace. And give us peace because we've seen the blessing so much. And so all that to say, it's so amazing what a four-year-old is already learning the tools in her toolbox And so talk to me a little bit about writing this book for kids and what you've heard from parents as they begin to help their kids with their anxieties. Okay. So Get Out of Your Head came out several years ago and it just, I think it struck a nerve. It was COVID and I think people were completely stuck in their heads. And so that book, when it came out, though, I knew right then I would write a kid's book for it. In fact, I wrote this back then. I wrote it right after Get Out of Your Head came out several years ago. and have held on to it. And the reason why was because it felt like the enemy was uniquely

coming for kids. For five-year-olds to be as anxious as they are on earth right now, that's evil. Like that is a sinister plan by the enemy. And so I just felt like we've got to fight this all the way up and down. And obviously a five-year-old, I think almost any age can reek it out of your head once they're in middle school, high school. But for kids, I was like, we've got to illustrate it. We got to show them that their thought patterns can be interrupted. I didn't know until I was 20-something that I could interrupt my thought patterns, that I had a choice about what I thought about. I didn't know that until I was struggling with an eating disorder and I read the verse in Second Corinthians that says, take every thought captive. I was like, wait a minute.

That means I could shift my thoughts about food and exercise and how I obsessed about all of these things. And that was such good news. It was like, gosh, why has nobody told me this before? You know, this feels really important to life. And so fast forward, get out of your head, comes out, and then I write this book. And I wrote it, of course, just thinking of a little five-year-old that is afraid and doesn't know how to put words to it. And so I tried to just write all the words that kids think, you know. And a lot of those words came from actual kids that shared with us, like, what they think about and what they're afraid of.

And to name those things, because once we get out of our heads and say it out, loud. So when honey says that to you, you're able to help. But the problem is most of us, and especially kids, don't know how to articulate it. But I would say if you're 21, it's probably hard for you to articulate too. It just all of us have a tendency to think we're the only one that fuels it, which is such a lie. And it is such a lie. And so we are afraid to say it out loud and it feels scary to be vulnerable. But what happens when you are is then you're inviting the Holy Spirit in, you're inviting truth in, you're able to hear it and go, you know what, I don't think that's true. I think I can do that. I am okay. That's exactly what you got to do for honey.

And so one little girl, I was doing a little kid's book signing a few weeks ago, and one little girl came in with her mom. Her mom had gotten her out of school to come. And she's in her uniform and she has her backpack on and her mom said Jenny she's anxious every day she doesn't like school and it's so hard for her and she's probably I don't even know if she's five I she might have been preschool and and she said so this book she keeps it in her backpack and whenever she gets scared she goes and gets it out her teacher lets her and she just holds it that is the best thing ever I know but I was like okay so this is real and I don't know why and like we can all analyze why little kids are wrestling, but it's just true. It's so sad, and I just pray it helps.

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She is like throws caution to the wind. I was actually laughing at them because when we were at the beach, I was parenting them so differently. I was like, honey, the ocean is such a beautiful place. Like, let's go. Let's enjoy it. Look at the waves. There's doff.

And then to Haven, I'm like, Haven, Haven, the ocean is a dangerous place. Don't go any further. There's sharks. Like, I have to put fear in Haven because she's just like, woo. And then I have to like kind of put some boldness in honey. And so they're so opposite. But one thing Haven does not like to do is to like go to any kind of class, you know, like Sunday school class or anything, you know, because she has to leave me or like

leave what is a little bit more comfortable. And what was so cool is she has this little like story time Jesus book. and she wanted to bring it to church. And I was like, yeah, you can bring that to your class. And maybe you could ask your teacher if she wanted to read anything from it. She walked in that class so confident. It was as if she has no fear of the class ever. And the only difference was she had the book with her.

And so then the next week at church, I was like, hey, like, let's go get a Jesus book. And you can bring another one to class. Okay. Like, so confident. And I was thinking about that. Like, it's really cool because that's not like just about. Bible, but it is a storybook about Jesus, but she's learning that the word gives her confidence, that the word gives her strength. And that's what they're doing with your book, too. It's like,

these words give me confidence and these words give her strength. And what's the verse? I'm totally going to botch it, but it's like whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is noble, whatever is trustworthy of her praise, like think about such things. And I've thought about that verse before because I'm like, oh, man, I'd love to think about those things. But, in order to think about those things, you have to be intentional to put those things in your mind. At one point, I had to like make my screensaver. I did a collage of things when I thought about those words. What's trustworthy?

What's worthy of praise? What's honorable? And I did like all these pictures that represent those words to me, just so I could have a visual to like put in my mind and think about those things. And maybe that's holding a book. Maybe that's holding the word of God. People say, I listen to your podcast to make me feel more confident in my faith. It's putting the right words.

in your mind. One thing I love that you talk about is having like a kind of a checklist when you have an anxious thought. It's like, okay, is this true? Talk a little bit about what you do with your anxiety. Like even this week when you say my chest tightens, what are just some practices that you give yourself? Yeah, let's go through this question. So the first thing is, is it true? And it might be true. You may have just gotten broken up with. You may have, it might be like what you're afraid of just happened, but it might be make-believe. And so you first have to go, like, is this something that's real? Is this, is this something that is that I'm afraid of that is true? Or is it something that I've just made up in my head? Because a lot of what we're afraid of,

we have just made up in our head. And then the next question is, what does God say about it? So even if it is true, what does God say about it? You know, he has plans to prosper you and not to harm you, that he will always be with you, that he has prepared every good work that you will do in advance. So that means that your plans, your life, your kids, everything is already planned out. And then so you write down like the verses of what did God say about it. And then you have to ask yourself, do I believe what God said? I think that's probably the most important thing because we can like try to slap a verse on it. But if we don't actually internalize it and go, what is keeping me from believing us?

like why is this so hard for me to to take in and to take that step to go to to I would say meditate on it to go you know God promises me that he will not leave me why do I not picture myself with God yeah like why do I not picture that he's in the room with me it's really in this fear in this difficulty and so to really say do I believe this do I do I do I really can I internalize it um and then what is it going to take to keep living free And for each of us, that's something different. For me, usually it's a call. It's a phone call.

It's I'm going to call a friend within, I would say, if half a day goes by and I am still anxious and I have not, it hasn't worked itself out with me and the Lord. I haven't. I've put truth on it. Then I'm going to tell somebody. I'm going to call my husband. I'm going to tell him. I'm going to call a friend and say, hey, can we get together tonight? I'm going to reach out.

That's what it is for me. For some of you, it might be you need to go on a walk first. For some of you, it might be you need to open the scriptures. For some of you, it might be that you want the scripture read over you and you have a passage that you just have ready on your phone on an app. So, you know, I think lately I've been, there's an app called the pause app that John Eldridge created. And it has simple prayers. And so as I'm driving, if I notice myself anxious, I will just, I won't get out of the car

till I've listened to one of those. And it's just really fast. It's just a minute or two. but it's unbelievable how much just surrendering everything to God breathing, taking a minute to slow down, to notice what we're thinking. Yep. It really does help. But these are tools we need ourselves, but we also need to be thinking,

how do we give this away to the people we disciple to the people in our lives, our roommates, our friends? Yeah, it's such a game changer. For me, I am like, I got to actually get it out of my head, out of my mind. My friend says, like, a word is louder than a thought. thought and I love that. She reminds me that I might actually be in your book. She might have got it from you. But she, I love that because to me, like my thoughts will be like so loud. But then when I say it, I'm like, okay, like it definitely starts to lose its power. And like I said, this morning, I'm like,

Christian, wake up, pray for me. Like I've had a bad dream. But actually, even before that, last night, and normally I can trace my bad dreams that I was anxious throughout the day. And last night, I was just feeling anxious. And sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to do it. You just feel anxious. And, you know, sometimes for me, I can feel anxious. And then it's like, oh, should I be fearful about something? Is something bad about to happen? Like, I really can spiral in my head. And so last night, I started, I was noticing myself doing anxious things.

I was like checking everybody's head. Does anybody have fever? Does anybody, is anybody sick? Why does Kit have so much spit coming out of her mouth? It was like every little thing my kid was doing. I was like getting anxious about. And maybe moms can relate to that. We're all of a sudden, you're scared someone's about to get sick.

or someone's about to get hurt or whatever. And I just, like, stop myself in the pattern. And I say, Christian, I'm just going to be honest. I am very anxious at my mind right now. And I feel like the ball's going to drop. I feel like somebody's about to get sick or something bad's going to happen. And can we just pray?

And he's like, yep, let's pray. And so right there with the three kids running around in the room, he just prays over my mind and prays over our children. And thanks God that we're good. And then we carry on. And truthfully, I did not feel anxious anymore because I just got it out. Oh, so good. I mean, we got to recognize the enemies behind so much of this.

And if we don't do that, then we will just try to fix it with our own needs. And what we have to do is approach it from a physical standpoint, an emotional standpoint, a relational standpoint, and a spiritual standpoint. And when you think about spiritually, if the enemy is coming for you in fear, you've got to pray against it. And to me, that is absolutely. I'm so glad you brought that out because that is the first stop, right? That is, you did that in one minute. And it changed the atmosphere of your home. And so, yes, I think all of us need to be people who fight the enemy.

I think what we just talked about in the beginning of this show is we talked about God being on the move in a mighty way. And as God is on a move in such a powerful, undeniable way, the enemy is getting more undeniable to you. And the enemy is attacking all of us. And so remember, the more you love God, the more you are running after God, the more the enemy comes for you. And so you've got to guard yourself. And the greatest and quickest way to do that is prayer. It's so true. I'm like sad this is over because I have received so much from this.

And I know people are going to be like, I want more. And if you want more, good for you. Jenny has her own podcast. She also has so many books out. There is a lot more where this came from. Jenny, it is so fun. It's always fun to talk to you as a friend and as a mentor. But it's also so fun to do a podcast with you. You're such a masterclass communicator. I love how you recap things like back at the beginning of the show. It's just so fun to talk to you and learn from you. So thank you for coming on the podcast again. You're such a blessing. And for everyone listening, like I said, go get not only the children's book, but the book for yourself because we all need this message in our life right now to fight back the enemy. So thank you, friend. Love you, friend.