WHOA That's Good Podcast - How to Trust God With Our Brokenness

Episode Date: September 8, 2021

Sadie speaks with Ellie Holcomb about how God often uses our brokenness to show us we are truly loved by Him. They also talk about being changed through the prayer and the power of being in God’s presence. Because of Jesus, our suffering never gets the final word, and you will never regret trusting Him. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, what up, good fam. I am so excited. It is Wednesday and this is a very special day I have. Someone on the podcast that honestly can't believe we're not like real life friends and we should be because we have so many mutual friends. She has a new album out called Canyon. She's amazing. Her name is Ellie Holcomb and we want to welcome you to the world. That's good podcast. So welcome Ellie. So glad to be here. I know I'm like air hug. I love you so much from afar. So many of my people love you and that are your people too. So it's fun filing it to talk. It's so great. I'm so excited and I was kind of telling you this before we popped on but no matter who I get to interview it's so exciting

because I get to really dive into their life and listen to their album and read whatever book they have or watch all the videos that they've done and you were so inspiring and every time I get to do that I feel so blessed to receive you know the things that you put out and so just a little sidebar for anyone who follows Ellie or if you don't if you just go like stalk her life like I did you'll be very blessed because you have so many great things out in the world. You seem like just an incredible wife and mom and leader and just all the things. And so before we get into all that, I got to ask you the question of the way that's good

podcast. What is the best piece of advice that you have ever been given? You know what, my mom, it's just from my mom and it didn't even come in the form of advice, but she just prayed first. She prayed for her. That's good. That's good. That's good.

And so, and it's so interesting, I was thinking, you know, with my kids, I've got three kids. And I was thinking, how did I learn how to pray? And nobody sat down and taught me, my mom didn't say this is how you do it. She just prayed for everything. And so I think, I think, I feel to me, it feel the way that she, if I could say it in a, in a form of advice, what she did, it was talk to the friend. Talk to the friend. He's the dearest person I know, Jesus.

And so I just, I think for me me that has been a really good one. And then if I can do follow that up with a second, I would say from mother-in-law, she is just lead with gratitude. Talk to the friend and lead with gratitude or like. That's so great. Pretty solid way to roll through life. I love that. And what better person people would have come from than the moms in your life? I love that so much better person people to come from than the moms in your life. I love that so much and it's also cool whenever people it's

like yes people give you advice and sometimes that sticks with you but it's also like the advice people live with is like sometimes it is the coolest thing ever. Like there have been people in my life that I look out to that honestly don't really know that well but I learned so much from them not because they've like said city you need to know this but because I learned so much from them not because they've said, say to you, you need to know this, but because I just see how they live and I'm like, that's how I wanna live, you know?

That's exactly, that's exactly right. And that is the kind that, I don't know, just like, it rubs off on you and sinks in really, really deep. You're like, whoo. It's so true. It's so true. It's so true. Cause that's why you like you see it instead of somebody just saying you should do this. Like you actually get to see the benefit of like why to do

that. It's like well I see this person taught to God. I see the fruit of her life. I want to do that too. You know I think that's really good. That's exactly right. And I mean I will say this it to make me, I'm just thinking back to when I was in college, or in high school drama. We all know, we all have that in our lives. Drama, people saying things that hurt your films or whatever, harder relationship things. And I mean, my mom would just be like,

okay, we're gonna pray. I want you to pray about this. And it honestly, it used to make me mad. Yeah. Like I just was like, no tell me what, tell me what to do, Mom. I want you to like, I want you to give me advice. And she did plenty of that,

but never before having me get before the learn, and she always said, Ellie, here's the thing. She was like, you cannot get into the presence of God and stay the same. Wow. You can't. That's so good. And so she was like, I'm not saying

that you're the only one that needs changing in here, but you can for sure, but that your heart will change and that what God wants to do in you through this trial will happen if you spend time talking with him and his presence and so I just thought, well, it used to make me really mad that it's really true. It's really true. That is so good. I love that. I was just telling someone, um, literally for this podcast, I was like right before I did this, like I was trying to ask all these mentors like what should I do?

And like I wanted someone to say like either like do it or don't do it and nobody did either. They didn't say do it and say don't do they said ask God what you should do and I was the same way I was kind of frustrated I was like but I really just would rather you tell me what to do I was so glad like they didn't and because you're right like when I talk to God I it changes me and it actually leads me to what he wants me to do and it's always the best thing for me to do. And no other person can tell me, you know, what I need to know more than God himself.

And yes, they can encourage you and influence you. And we all need mentors. We all need to be humble enough to receive. But at the same time, like, unless we allow God to change through us and we're never going to do it, you know, we're never even going to take the advice they give. So, I'm about to start this thing. And he is like the best listener and the kindest ear to pour out your heart.

There's one song that I love that talks about. I pour out my size before the Lord. And I just, I love that. I think right now, especially all of us, no matter what stage of life we're in, there are lots of things to say about. Like, just, oh, God, I am weary from this season. And so I still have to be reminded

to go get in front of him and my mom and my husband, there are people in my life that remind me to do that. We're like, stressing out what do I need to do? And it's like, no, go talk to the friend. Go talk to the friend. I love it. That is such good advice. So you mentioned your husband, you and Drew are both like artist musicians

and which I find incredible. Me and Christian are not like that at all. I can't even imagine I was trying to be like that because it would be so funny. But I love that about y'all. So back it up, you know, a lot of people know you now, but how did y'all actually meet? Yeah. He was my best girlfriend in college. We went to the University of Tennessee, which makes me want to say like go balls, but really I'm like, we've struggled for a while now. Go sports.

Go sports, go athleticism. But he was, we were very, very different. We met literally actually on the steps of a party, I was coming down, he was coming up. And I'm super friendly. And I said, hey, what's your name? Said my name's Drew, what's yours, Ellie? And I said, what'd you do today?

And he actually said, he said, I actually flew a plane for the first time by myself. He was getting his pilot flight that day. That's so cool. That's so cool. So we fast forward a lot of heartbreak in between there. He best got friend, had a super like awful, like hard relationship in college. A lot of like, I don't know, how deep are we going to go here?

Like spiritual physical, like all some abuse, you know, just not right. And so I had and God, you know, I knew better than to be in a situation like that. Like I knew all the right things. And and just kind of lost my way. And so I found myself just grieving when that came to an end. And I didn't even have a courage to end it. The guy ended it. Thank God he had some sweet mentors in his life. So this is a great reason to have mentors. You just said, you've pretended to be a lot of things

that you are not in this relationship. And do you want to pretend for the rest of your life? Wow. Or not. And he had the ring, Sadie. I mean, it was like, you know, like he, like, so on the day that he was supposed to propose me, ended up calling it off, which was like super embarrassing

and sad and devastating, but Sadie, the way that God met me. Wow. Like, I just, I felt like I had done just like, not made the best decisions, not made the healthiest decisions that got myself under this unhealthy relationship and the way that God met me. I'm like, all I feel like I have done is spit in your face God and run in the other direction and say, I know you love me God, but I just, I so my idol was, I think, I just want a man to love me. Like, I just want to, I want somebody to love me. I think my idol was kind of this like getting married kind of thing.

And, and man, when that ended and God said, I am still here and I still love you. And I see you and I know that you've been running hard and fast in the direction. And I, you are still in my beloved. It's like that Hosea story. I started reading redeeming love for 18 rivers and I was like, I just felt I was like, I'm going to go join a convict. He is the one. He is the one true lover of your soul. And I think I had gotten to this point in that unheldy relationship where I felt, um, I don't know. And I think I had gotten to this point in that unhealthy relationship where I felt, I don't know, and I talked to a lot of other girls. We've volunteered with young life over the years. And I hear this in a lot of girls story, but feeling very

much used and then discarded and feeling, I think the words that would have described me would have been unloved, unwanted, and unworthy. And in that place, God came and said, no, you are my beloved and I am yours. I am the one true lover of your soul. And nobody is gonna be able, no man is gonna be able to love you, like I'm gonna be able to love you. And I was like, yeah, what comedy women joy? That's amazing.

That's amazing. Love with him. And it was, you know, it's so interesting. I think sometimes the broken parts of our story, I spent so much of my life trying to be good enough and love God and other people enough. And that's not really the gospel. You know, like the gospel, Tim,

come in hard and fast when we're running in the other direction. And Louis Gigglyo says, this our friend, but God didn't come to make bad people good people. He came to make dead people a life people. And so that is what he did in my life. And wow. And so grateful.

And here I thought this was this thing, this relationship was this thing, and not ended in it, felt like a death. And God just said, watch. Wow. I'm going to do with this. I'm going to transform your heart. I actually have this person that you never thought

that you would marry. I swore, Sadie, that I would never, I'll get back to Drew, because I love him so much. I swear I would never marry a musician. Well, I would never do music myself. And I swore that I would never marry and my best got from college, Drew Holcomb, because we would sing together.

And everybody would be like, oh, that's a thing. And I was like, oh, no, it is not. He is like my brother, that's a thing. And I was like, oh, no, it is not. He is like, my brother, that's so weird. And I think God has a sense of humor. And I'm so happy about it. It's, is that not crazy? So how did you like, you know, swallow the pride and be like, okay, I am actually gonna be

my best guy friend. And I am gonna be musician. And like, how did you let God change your plan? How did he change that course? So I was so happy when that relationship ended. Drew and I had, you know, not been as close because I'm here like preparing to be married to the other guy. Well, I missed Drew so much. And so I saw him and I was just like, oh my gosh, it is so good to get to be your friend again.

So we started talking immediately. And he had kind of, he always says, he was like, I was always like, oh yeah, I'm gonna see, we're gonna see about that later. I know she's not ready to do it. And this other guy, whatever. So he had really been like sad, but just hands off, you know, respectfully.

Like she's gonna be a sadder guy. And when he heard, he was driving Knoxville, we heard that we had broken up. He was like, oh no, oh no, I got it. He was like, okay dang it. Now I'm scared my heart's going to get broken. So he six months, we start hanging out. Six months into that, he says, he sits me down,

plays a song called I Like to Be With Me, went on with you that night. And I remember thinking, I wish, like I couldn't breathe when I heard him say, I was in the crowd when he sang it. And I was like, oh my gosh, I wish that was about me. But that's weird because he's like my brother. That's so weird. Well, he sits down that night and says, I'm crazy about you.

I know that you've been my best friend for a long time. Oh my gosh. But I love this city. He said, I know that you're healing right now. And I want you to do everything that you need to do to, to, I know you're on a journey with the Lord. So I, and I want to give you all the space to do that. Um, and so, but I also, when you're ready to ever date again, I think I, I, I feel like I could maybe deserve the first shot. Like, if you would let me take you out whenever you're ready to ever date again, I think I, I feel like I could maybe deserve the first shot.

Like, if you would let me take you out whenever you're ready. So six months later, Wow. We went on our first date and we walked into the Rhyman Auditorium to see it growing patty Griffin, an artist, play who I love. And Sadie, it was like, we walked in,

and he held my hand walking in. And I was like, oh no in, he held my hand walking in, and I was like, oh no, this is gonna be terrible. This is like, he's just my brother. He's, I just had him in like that friend zone. And I promise you over the course of one concert, one concert by the end of the show, I was, I knew I was gonna spend every,

the rest of my life. Wow. Every single day for the rest of my life. That is so sweet. Oh my gosh, I love your story. That is amazing. And to be honest, it's very similar. I see a lot of similarities in our story.

I had a pretty bad relationship and the same thing and then similar things. And right after I felt like I always say, I felt like I actually found love when we broke up because that's whenever I met God in the realest way and it was just the sweetest thing and it was like the same thing it was like all the sudden I had not felt beautiful for all this time and then I felt like when God's in the Bible you're all taking their beautiful my darling those verses were like coming to life and I'm like why do I feel this being real whenever it's like I should be at my most broken, like my ugliest moment, like the most

unloved, but yeah, I feel like the most loved, the most beautiful, the most alive and that is what God does. And so hearing your story, I'm like, yes, that's what God does. And so I hope it would girls hear this if they're in that situation. They can know that like, God has more, and it's not more in like another guy. Yes, God is good and like brought Drew into your life and brought Christian into mine. But before that, it was just him and like and just him alone. Like it was good. And it was the ultimate like feeling of love and beauty and all the things. And so I love to hear that.

I love it. Well, and then say to you come into a relationship, whether that's husband, whatever kind of relationship, you're coming in not meeting the sense of validation. You already know that you are beloved, like you're perfectly known and perfectly loved at the same time It's so true because that's the thing I would get in other relationships whenever I was broken and I like Just kept feeling broken and it wasn't anything they were doing It was just what I believed but myself and so like until I believed that from God that I wasn't that and that I was loved and that I was, you know, worthy of love.

And, you know, I was a joy to him and all those different things. Then I could believe that from a person. Like, even if I met Christian and my brokenness, I don't know if I would have been able to believe his love for me until I believe God's first. And so, that's really cool. He said that. And one thing I noticed in your stories, you talked about how like you're a super friendly person. And obviously, you are. I feel like I've in your stories, he talked about how like you're a super friendly person. And obviously you are. Like, I feel like I'm already known you for way longer than like 20 minutes.

But like you're so friendly, you're even to say to him, like, what'd you do today? Like that's just like very rare in our like world. Where like how can you encourage girls in that? And also, do you feel like before like whenever you were in that relationship, were you the same way? Did it? Did you feel like, before, like whenever you were in that relationship, were you the same way? Did you feel like it kind of took away a little bit about like the good things about who you are? Because I feel like sometimes in relationships,

people ask me like, how do I know if it's a bad relationship? And I'm like, what is it like, still the joy of like who you are? Because I think sometimes we get relationships and like all of a sudden like we're not as friendly and we're like not having that much fun in life and we're like crying way more than we're laughing and like we don't even realize it and we're like but I love you you know. This isn't good. I would say I think I think one of the most beautiful things about Drew

the the song that he wrote this is gonna sound sound got a cheesy because I like what this song that he wrote about me. But it's I like to be with me when I'm with you. Like I am in my own. Skin and I went on with you and it came from. He said it's like putting on my favorite pair of shoes and it's the story from his aunt Tishish, and his uncle, Twyford. His name was Twyford, so it was Tish and Twiff. And Tish was belled the ball, like,

back in the day when you used to have a different, you had a different date every night of the weekend. That's sort of how people dated. Like her dance card was always full. And Twiff was her dearest friend in the world. And so she would go out on all of these dates and then she would come home and he lived down the street from her family.

And they would talk and have the best. And so she finally, she had all these, this doctor who wanted to marry all these kind of like very well, like, you know, big reputations, money, status, social status, who were proposing to her. And she came home one day, are proposing to her. Wow. She came home one day. She said to her mom, she said,

mom, when I am with all these other guys, I feel like I'm putting on like my fancy heels. But when I'm with Twiff, I feel like I'm in my slippers. Oh, that's so sweet. And Twiff asked her three times to marry him. And she had said no twice. Wow.

And the third time he asked her, she was just like, I'm the most comfortable in my own skin when I'm with you. And so I love that. I love that. I love that you're asking that question and saying it because I do think,

God, I used to think growing up in the church, like you're just supposed to become, you're supposed to become one. That's definitely a biblical, like beautiful thing. But what I thought that meant was that I completely lost who I was. And I was just only about this.

And that would be such a loss for us to not be who got made us to be as individual women and as individual men. And then you come together and you're who got made each of you be together, walking side by side together. And it is helpful. I'm thankful for a reorienting of that understanding of that truth, because I think for a long time,

I would disappear, go away sad, you know. Yeah, in relationships. Totally understand. Well, that was beautifully put. I feel like I'm in muscle affairs. I love that. Okay, so I want to talk to you about how you kind of came into what you're doing now. And whenever I was listening to videos and stuff, it kind of seems like you like stumbled upon it

in college, really, whenever you were like, okay, maybe I'm gonna do this. So tell me, tell me a little bit about that story. Music. So yeah, I grew up in Nashville and studios. My dad's a producer. And so I saw from a really young age as a kid, the power that music can have to like bring deep hope to people and to connect with people, but I also saw I was pretty much like 0% enamored with fame. Like I watched, you know, families like have a really hard time and fall apart. Like I could see as a kid the cost that if that fame could take on the ceiling. So, and for me that was in the scope of music

is what I was watching. And so that's why I swore I was like, I am not doing music. I got my masters in education. I was in an English teacher for two years. I loved that. That's awesome. But I've always loved writing songs.

And songwriting has been like breathing to me. And in college, I was like basically, because I was having all the heartbreak times, I was like a bad version of Taylor Swift. Oh, yes. That's amazing. That's amazing. That's amazing. It's so fun.

You know, sad, sassy, like the heartbreak song. So good. So good. Oh, but not as good as T-Swifty. So I, but I would sing. Here's what happened though that was really important in that time. I would sing in the the the dorm room stairwell, okay. Sounds great in there. Yeah, it's a

star like yes, but yeah, and then be so wouldn't wake up marimites. And so what we didn't ever really happen is I would be playing these songs like these like sad songs and girls would start lining the stair well. Like half the time crying, not all of them sober for sure. And what would end up happening, it would be, I mean, kind of awkward. Like I would just be like close my eyes, little Ellie, college singing, playing these songs and look up and there would be like all host of girls in there. And they would end up sitting down, say, on the steps next and be like, thank you for playing that song.

Like thank you. I, that happened to me too. Wow. You know, I'll be like, hey, my name's, what is your name again? But I saw in college the power of a song to connect our stories. Wow. It's really cool. And I, that has been, and it continues to be my favorite part of my job.

When I was a teacher and English teacher, I used music all the time in the classroom, saying in the classroom, wrapped in the classroom. I'm not. That's incredible. That's incredible. That's incredible. I'm pretty more like urban environments, you know? And so I was just trying to like get the kids engaged. And I'd be like wrapping about, anyway,

they've been laughing. They've been laughing. They've been laughing. But music was always a huge part. And I, and I sang a song when I told them I was putting my teaching job and joining my husband's bandy asked me to consider joining his band, which we thought we would do for a year. And here we are like 15 years later doing this music thing together.

But I, when I quit, the first thing we did was we went to volunteer at a young life camp. And we sang songs at a young life camp. And what I saw at young life camp, and this is a huge thing for me. I remember calling my mom and dad and we've been playing our our songs like one song and I did a concert in the middle of the week and I saw the same thing happening young life camp. All these girls.

Well, these girls wanted to tell me their story just because I played a song and then at young life camp, I have the opportunity to not just let the song be a bridge to our stories, but to let. That's cool. The song be an opportunity for me to connect their story to the most beautiful story that I know. Which is the story of God sending His Son here and of love beating death. And I called my mom and dad after that first week of Young Life Camp City and I was like,

I am firing on all cylinders. Like God made me to do this. Like I feel so alive. I love this so much. And so it's so interesting because I still, at that point, I was just like background singer, utility player, my husband's band, not really ever knowing how it would be writing my own music and release, like have a whole other career.

But it was such a powerful moment. And that's, you know, we're playing with my husband's band in clubs and theaters. And, you know, we did that in the summer, but in the years, just bars and whatever. Playing and not like Christian Studies, just telling stories through songs and everything. It's just been a beautiful thing over the years

to just continue to connect with people in that way. I'm completely grateful. I love that. I think it's the coolest thing. And I just want girls to recognize what you were doing. You were just sitting in the stairwell playing. You were just volunteering at places. And I think a lot of times, especially in the college,

age group and young adults, it's like, they just want to be on the stage. You know, just if I was gonna do this, that would mean that this and this and this would have to just work out. And that's not the case. Like, it doesn't just like work out like that. Like you have to, you know, volunteer,

you have to sit in the stairwell, like you just have to like use the gift that guy gave you organically naturally as if he just gave it to you to bless the world instead of for you to be on a stage. And God will blow your mind in a million different ways, whether it's with a platform, whether it's with changing and impacting the life

of the girls in the stairwell. And so I just think too many times, like we hold on to our gifts and like try to wait for like there to be a moment to just like go for it. When in reality it's like just start saying yes to him every day with those gifts and people are going to see it and you're going to impact so many people along the way. It's not just when it works out. And so when I heard your story I was was like, that is so, so cool. And now obviously worked out,

and you have a huge platform in your husband to sing together and do so many great things. And you just had an album out, and I want to talk to you about it. So tell me about your new album. By the way, I listened all the way through, and it is so incredible. We're to talk some more about specific songs.

But as an album in general, like where did the album, where did that inspiration for Canaan come from? Yeah, so I had been on a journey via counseling. I'm a huge advocate for counseling. I never, ever thought that I would need to go. And it has totally changed my life. I think because the count, my council counselor repeated to me the invitation that Jesus gives to all of us that where there's

truth, there's freedom. Yes. And the truth can be hard. Yes. But their truth can be hard. Brunei Brown says the heart, it's the hardest thing to own and stand up and the brokenness in our

own story. But it is a great deal harder to spend our lives running from it. And so true. And I have been in counseling for years, you know, working through the hard parts of my story, some of the wounds from childhood, college that I know they really took all of that. But what I had never allowed myself to do was to grief those ones. And so I had acknowledged them, I talked about them, I prayed through them, I've grown, I've done, like I feel like I'm like a pretty, you know,

it's like I've done a lot of like heart, spirit, work over the years, praise God and in a different place than I was, but what I realized, I'm actually when my daughter went to kindergarten, all of these like kind of childhood wins that I'd had started coming. I think if we don't grieve properly, it ends up later coming outside ways,

or at least for me at the day. I've been on this journey of visiting some of the most painful places in my story and allowing myself to just breathe there and weep and grief there and as I did that, which was visiting places sometimes that felt like they were gonna kill me.

I don't know, it's like why would I go back to that? Like, God, it's healed me from that. Why would I go grieve that? But man, I was missing so, what happened as I did that Sadie is I encountered the nearness and the tenderness of empathy. It's beautiful. And the places I thought would kill me to visit that Sadie is I encountered the nearness and the 10 year school empathy of beautiful. And the places I thought would kill me to visit actually God brought a deeper level of healing and brought me to life in ways that I didn't know I needed to be brought to life.

And so that I had written this whole record about that process. Well then March 3rd of 2020 hits and E.F. for tornado like tears through our Nashville neighborhood scary tonight on my life. It went right behind our house. Wow. And woke up to the house shaking. Three kids drew it out of town. Getting them down. It was just it was so scary. And then so much beauty in the wake of that rebuilding strangers love and strangers neighbors loving neighbors. But then a week later, COVID-19 safer at home hit. And it felt like hope and community got quarantined. I think that's how it felt for a lot of us. And then in the wake of George Floyd,

a lot of the racial tension, there was so much political tension, racial tension, division, even within the church. And it was just heavy. It was so heavy. So many people were losing so much. And so I think because I learned a great personally,

I began to grieve on a global scale to lament, to lament the experience of some of Black and Brown, to start listening, intentionally, Black and Brown, started listening intentionally, Black and Brown brothers and sisters, whose stories were totally different than mine, just because they looked different.

Their skin was a different color than mine. And I just didn't know that that was their experience. So there's this like, just grieving season, where I was like, man, this world is a heavy broken place. And in the midst of all of this, I went to the Grand Canyon. Have you been? Yes.

Incredible. We were just driving to LA one time. So we literally just stopped by and saw it, but even just like seeing it, it's just like mind blowing for real. It's it's crazy. And I, you know, we ended up with the numbers were low last year in August going, which I don't like highly recommend doing the kind of trip we did in August because it is like 117 different things. Oh, I got really hot. But we camped on the northern rim, went down into the Grand Canyon, drafted the Colorado River, camped on the river banks, and then drafted out.

And so that's amazing. It Colorado River. Wow. Camp on the river banks and then rafted out. And so that's amazing. It was honestly very epic. I'm like Arizona River runners. They were great coming. I'm like, go book a trip. They were awesome. But I will never forget our guide telling us when we were down there.

He was saying like the Grand Canyon walls tell this story of disaster upon disaster upon disasters. Like and you can see it. He's like, and you can see it. He's like, that's a landslide. Then a mudslide, that was an earthquake. There's a volcano. And I just was looking up at this picture.

And I just thought, this looks exactly like our hearts look, especially after the past year and a half that we've had. Like loss on loss, trauma on trauma, wound upon weary wound. And I just, I think to be human is to be broken. Like we all know what it's like to have our heart split wide open, like a canyon, but they're in the very deepest part of the canyon. There was this river running through. And I just thought, oh my goodness,

this is the gospel because as it turns out, there is a current of living water. There's a current of God's love that runs deeper than our deepest sorrow, than our deepest ache, than our deepest pain. And that will carry us when it

feels like we can't carry on any longer. And I left the green king and said, and I couldn't shake it. And I feel like what happened is my understanding of the gospel of the way that got in that me and my own personal story was like a raindrop. Like this necessary like I can't survive without the beauty and the nourishment that is in this raindrop, like this necessary, like I can't survive without the beauty and the nourishment that is in this raindrop. And what happened when I started to grieve on a global scale, a national scale, and then went down into that

green king and he was like, Ellie, my love is not a raindrop. It's the ocean. It's all of the water. And we are all invited to join up as molecule of that of that living current of water like streams and the wasteland. We get to join up with that current of living water as we're carried and transformed the refreshment that comes from that place from our deepest well not when we are on our egg game like from our deepest places of mistakes, wounds, pain, ache, when our dreams didn't turn out like they that we thought that they would. God is there and we'll meet us in that place. And and when I look at when you look at a canyon a redness national geographic article, I love how God proclaims this glory through the earth.

First of all, but I read this now. Go do a graphic article. I'm like, this person isn't. I don't know where their faith perspective is coming from. But I'm like, this is the backwards upside down nature of the gospel that to blessed are those who mourn for they will be comforted. Blessed are the poor. It's the opposite of what I think is I was not going to want to meet a climb high go reach her and he's like no I'm actually down here.

Wow. I am in the lowest place you can go I'm up there too. Yeah. It's not that he's not there, but he is in the lowest place they go ever be and and he is there with life and healing and hopes that are suffering never gets the final word because of who Jesus is and what he did for us. So I shoved a pile of 35 songs off my desk and I was like, okay, this is bigger, you're bigger. If I understand is being expanded, as my heart is breaking, there is more room for your love to flood in.

And a canyon that natural geographic article says that a canyon is actually an upside down mountain. Come on. And so our deepest places of wounding and ache and pain are actually the places if you will invite guys into those moments. You are going to look back on

your story and say, this is actually my power. Let me and it's not my power. It's his power. Yeah, it's his power to meet me in my most wounded weakest, aching, breaking place, the ash places out by the grave that he is there. Yeah. And the stories that we tell or that I end up telling or not the ones where I got it all right and just crushed it. It's when I was on my in a pile like weeping in the fetal position in my shower and and God

met me even there and said yeah, you're my beloved. Wow. Even right here. Come on girl. Why don't you just preach for a second? That was so good. I can't wait for people to hear that and just amen and just see a new perspective who God is. You know what is making me laugh so hard too, is that back, okay, in seventh grade, my seventh grade year. So my teacher had a board called the stupid board.

And if you said something stupid, your quote got put on the board, okay? Yeah, listen to what I said, inside of the great, you're gonna love this. I said, we're learning about the Grand Canyon and I said, it's the Grand Canyon mountain and he put it on the board because he was like, no, it's a canyon. Why would you, if the Grand Canyon is a mountain, I was like, well, if you're standing at the bottom, then it looks like a mountain. And so that is just so crazy that you just said

that it was an upside down mountain because like everyone has made fun of me for that quote. And I'm like, no, it's just your perspective. It doesn't look like a mountain if you're at the bottom of it. And so that is so cool that you just said that. You were just being a little prophet. Hey, I was just looking out with some spiritual eyes,

OK? No one else saw that. I was saying, I knew it. I knew it had something to it. Anywho, that is hilarious. I want to ask you and wrapping up shortly because you've said so much that I really want people to like genuinely listen to you and take hold of and take

to heart. But there was some quote that you said in the song, color, and you said you were talking to a God who you're scared to trust. And I just thought that was like when you said that like pause it and like rewind, I was like, yes, like sometimes it is really hard to talk to God whenever you're scared to trust him, you know. And sometimes I think that we shy away from prayers that we really maybe even want to pray because we're scared what the answer will be. I don't know that really gripped me.

And so for people who are listening to you and you're like, yes, that's amazing. Yes, God is there. Yes, God is the river running through it. But I'm scared to trust in that God. What is some encouragement that you've found from choosing to trust even when you're scared and afraid? Yeah, it's such a great question because I, I call myself a warrior in progress. I just, I know God says that we're not supposed to do it and I continue like to do it. And so it is really good for me to talk to the friend. Yeah. Such a dear friend. But I am often scared of trust him.

And I think, I think for me, I would just answer that question. It's okay with another story that happened to me in the cane. This is the only way I know how to answer it. When we went to sleep that night on the river banks, our guide first was just told us to jump in the river. It's 50 degrees. The water is 50 degrees, which is very cold. If you don't have like a, that's very cold.

Yeah, I think so. And so he's like, just take the little sheet that we gave you and they had these little cots that we could sleep on. Take the sheet and go literally jump in the water with your sheet. And I'm like, I'm tot crazy. Um, but it was y

to crazy night. So I a i like, so that's the first have you. Second thing you is wake up, make sure yo night because there's a called the rim effect. A that. But he said, when the moon sets behind the canyon walls, he said, you will be in the darkest place that you have ever been in your

life because there's no light. There's no light in this place. You're over a mile into the surface of the earth. And you'll be further away from the stars than you've ever been in your life. But because it is so dark, the stars will shine brighter than they have ever shown before and they will appear closer than they have ever appeared before. And I think what happened, I woke up in the middle of the night because I got really hot and I was so grateful

because the stars say they were like, right here. And I think for me, when I've taken the risk to trust God, even when I'm scared to trust him, because I'm hurting, it's usually when I'm hurting. And I'm like, why, you're a good God, why would you let this hard thing happen? Like, and that's what sometimes I think when I, I don't know,

when I'm more fearful to approach him, because I'm mad, honestly, and confused and sad. But when I can come to him with all that, he says we can come. As we are. And so I think for me, I have, I have been, I think that is the times when I have encountered his light. Yes. In the most palpable way when I can kind of push through those fears and trust him,

even when I'm scared, because I'm in such a dark place, his light has shown so bright and his nearness has felt. Well, I don't know, almost palpable. And so I would just encourage you you if you were in that place as a fellow sojourner like your fellow sister on the road on the journey who's been scared a lot to trust God. I would say I have never regretted trusting him. I have never regretted. So good. I have zero regrets ever pouring my heart whether it it's been tears, questions spewing like, like, I mean, I have come angry and raw before him

and he can handle that. And he has helped me in those places. And so there is such freedom because of who Jesus is for us to just come. As we are broken stumbling, doubting, questioning, and to know, I just want you to know that you are coming to the safest place imaginable, like to the most place where you will belong

no matter what you are kind of carrying and because of who Jesus is and how he loves you. So good. Oh my gosh, I just feel like this is just going to help so many people. I know it is. It's so good. I just want to end it with the one

that I quote from your song that I love so much. It says, got a lot of bad days so coming our way, but it's sweet ever after. And I just think that's so good. And it's so hope filled. It's like, yes, times are hard. Yes, things are going to continue to be hard, probably for a little bit, but it's sweet ever after. Yes, times are hard. Yes, things are going to continue to be hard,

probably for a little bit, but it's sweet ever after. And I think that you just have put so much real authentic things that you're going through, they're very vulnerable and very hard, and everyone can connect on that, but you've also filled it with hope, and there is a hope, and there is a future, and that it is good because God is there. And I just wanna to thank you for that because that is what we need these days.

Thanks for pushing us out the 35, which I'm sure we're all amazing songs. And you know, listening to what God had for the now because it speaks volumes. And so if girls, if you are, you know, listening to this and guys, too, I know there's some guys listening and you were impacted by the things that she said. I just encourage you to go listen to her album, Canyon, I think it will continue to bless you and Ellie. Thank you so much for being on the What It's Good Podcast and pouring in so much good advice and just being such a real and bubbly and friendly authentic version of you. Thank you, friend. Thank you for having me and it's so good to finally meet you. I love

you and hey you take that quote off the stupid board. That was a spiritual that was a spiritual download. You put it on the board. We are taking that off. We are putting the eraser over that. Thank you so much. Well I love you already too. Let's for real hang out and real life one day. And God bless your family. Thanks. All right. Awesome. Awesome. you