WHOA That's Good Podcast - How You Can Reframe Your Rejection & Begin the Healing | Sadie Robertson Huff & Nona Jones

Episode Date: October 23, 2024

Nona Jones brings a word in today's episode where she candidly shares with Sadie about her incredibly traumatic and abusive childhood. Nona talks about being told she was unwanted by her mom and how she was forced back into an abusive situation with her mom's live-in boyfriend — but how she's learned, with God's help, to work through the overwhelming feelings of rejection she's experienced. Rejection IS painful — we all experience it in different ways — but what lessons can we learn from it too? As Nona says, "Pain is just the wrapping paper" and encourages us to dig deep and observe our thoughts and why we react to situations and words the way we do. Nona's book, "The Gift of Rejection" is available anywhere you buy your books!  This episode of WHOA That's Good is brought to you by: https://www.drinklmnt.com/whoa — Get a FREE LMNT Sample Pack with any LMNT purchase! https://www.trymiracle.com/whoa — Get 40% off + 3 FREE towels with code WHOA at checkout! https://liberty.edu/Sadie — Get your application fee WAIVED when you start your future with Liberty University today! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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but per usual friends, your whole life is about to get so much better because we have a guest coming back on the show with a brand new book called The Gift of Rejection. You heard that right, and I'm telling you she's gonna walk us through this. It is so powerful. I'm so excited to have my friend Nona Jones back on the podcast. Oh Hey Sadie, thank you so much for having me. I'm so honored to be back. It is truly a gift. You are like when I think of like a boss lady, it's you. Like you're coming up in my mind as a picture of boss lady who like loves Jesus, but is crushing it in the world. You're amazing.

So I just had to take a second to fangirl over that fact. Girl, listen, back at you. I mean, look, I am your, I'm your student. You're the teacher. No, girl, that is crazy. You're amazing. I do remember when I first met you though. And it's student, you're the teacher, okay? So. No, girl, that is crazy. You're amazing. I do remember when I first met you though, and it's just, you're one of those people

that you're like, wow, like that, you're crushing it. And you just want to hear more, you want to learn from you. Following you on Instagram over the past two years. I just love seeing you and your husband's pictures, you and your kids, y'all's life. It's just special. And just to see you continue to write books and preach messages that are getting,

I don't say this in like, oh, getting so many views, but I mean, just making so much impact. Like that is just very special and very, very cool. And it's well-deserved. I mean, you're saying things that matter and really important messages. So I'm excited to dive into another one of your books. I know we talked about,

I think we talked about Killing Comparison last time, which fantastic. If you haven't listened to that podcast or read that book, you're gonna be sent off with a good rabbit troll after this conversation. But this book, The Gift of Rejection, even when I said it, I'm like, you heard that right? Because it is kind of a shocking

title, you know? But before we get into the whole book, will you just tell people a little bit about your life, who you are? Because, you know, if they don't follow you and know the boss lady that you are, just give us a little background as to who Nona Jones is. Well, let me first say, I think when people walk into the successful chapter that your life is on, they just assume that's the whole story. But I am truly a walking, talking, living, breathing statistical anomaly. For anyone who's ever heard of, there's an assessment called the Adverse Childhood Experiences Assessment.

And what it does is it essentially gives the probability that a child who has experienced forms of trauma will have adverse outcomes in life. And it's on a scale of zero to 10, where if a child scores like a three, they're considered at really high risk for adverse outcomes, like drug addiction, incarceration, premature death, system dependency, all those things.

When I took it, I scored an eight, an eight out of 10. And so when I say that I am a statistically improbable product of God's grace, I am not kidding. So to make a long story short, I was born to a mom who didn't want to have children. I'm an only child. Around the age of five, my mother's live-in boyfriend started to sexually abuse me. And I told my mom what he was doing and she had him arrested. But on the day of his release from jail, she took me with her to pick him up and brought him back home. And that experience became such, it just became such an inflection point in my life,

because part of what we'll talk about when it comes to even the gift of rejection is now I have language for what it was. It created a rejection wound for me because here I am, this child, I can't protect myself. And my mom essentially chose my abuser over me. And so he came back home and the abuse just picked up where it left off. My mom became physically and verbally abusive. And I had a really just tumultuous childhood, so much so that at the ages of nine and 11, I actually tried to end my life. We were not a church going family. I didn't know anything about God or Jesus or the Bible. But I thank God for his faithfulness because

in the sixth grade, a classmate of mine actually invited me to church. And the first sermon I ever heard, Sadie, the pastor preached that God is a father to the fatherless. And my father had passed away shortly before my second birthday. So it was almost like God was speaking to me in that moment. And that became the biggest inflection point on my journey. And so, you know, the abuse didn't end there, but I had a future, I had a hope in Jesus. And that's what really compelled me to look toward my future, where, you know, kind of fast forwarding over a lot of things, but I've been very fortunate to have a really blessed career. I've been kind of living my life in two lanes. On the one hand, in the marketplace, I've held some senior executive roles at some large

corporations, but I've also been in ministry since I was 17, just preaching and teaching the Word of God. And I got to tell you, I would have never imagined that I would be doing what I'm doing now. My plan for my life was to become a physician or a CEO of Fortune 100 Company. And now, as you mentioned earlier, I mean, I get to travel and preach the Word of God and encourage the masses and write books that really point to the redemptive work of Jesus. And so that's, yeah, that's my story. And I'm just grateful to be able to be an example

of what God can do with even the deepest, darkest pain. He can redeem it and actually make it a testimony. Wow. Oh my gosh. I'm so thankful that you share that part of your story because so many people would shy away from that part of your story. That's the part that hurts. I mean, that's the part that it's the worst of the worst.

Even reading it is just absolutely heartbreaking and shocking. And so to go there and to share that and not just say, oh, let me tell you about my life now, you know, is just so powerful because I know people already listening are like, whoa, okay, this is actually giving me hope because that was my childhood or I had a similar thing or I thought that there wasn't gonna be opportunity

for me in this life because of what happened to me. And so I just love that you give people such an example of like no really, really, really bad things could have happened to you. And yet what God can do in your life can absolutely blow the roof of what you think can happen for you. And it's just incredible.

And I'm glad you share that too, because when you see someone like you write a book called like the gift of rejection, you know, you see that title and it's like, man, I don't know if my rejection can be a gift. Maybe she doesn't understand how bad rejection can really be. But if anyone can understand how bad rejection can be, I mean, man, it's you.

Having that happen from a mother, I can't even imagine the pain that that causes. And so how did you get to the point of calling that rejection a gift? Well, let me first say some years ago, God, and it's so funny, because I never planned on telling my story. I never planned on it, but when I was in college,

my dorm mate, one day she came in late and she like ran to her room. She was crying. Um, and she was just staying in bed for like days. And I, I wasn't sure what was going on, but one day I overheard her crying and I just like asked like, what's going on, what happened? And she confided in me that she had gone to a party. Um, she was assaulted at the party and she just felt like her life was over. And, you know, I didn't even call it ministering to her because all I did is I just kind of shared my story and I told her, I was like, listen, you know, I don't know what your faith is, but I can promise you that God is good and this situation

is not, but God is good. And I need you just to hang in there. And it was sharing my story that actually ended up giving her hope. And so what I realize now is my ministry is vulnerability. So I will stand in front of a room of five, seven, 8,000 people and I will share my story because every time I do, people come up to me and they say,

that happened to me. I've never told anyone. I thought I was the only one. And I believe that one of the tactics of the enemy is to make you believe that you are defective. You are deficient. Something is wrong with you. You are damaged goods. You're the only one. And when he can get us in kind of that doom spiral, what happens is God will have purpose on your life. You will disqualify yourself because you believe the lie that you're not enough. So I wanted to start there because I do believe that there are people who are maybe watching and listening and who feel like, well, God could never use me because of, you know, look what happened to me or look what I did. No, it's the exact thing that you think disqualifies you that qualifies you. So I

want to start there. Now, let me say the title, the gift of rejection. So I never thought of rejection as a gift. Like it never dawned on me that rejection was a gift. But what happened was when I was in high school, first of all, for the majority of my childhood, I was morbidly obese because I used food to kind of anesthetize the pain of my abuse. I really relied on the dopamine of the food to get me through the pain. Well, when I got to high school, I lost weight and fell in love with a guy.

We became boyfriend and girlfriend. He was my first boyfriend. I was so in love with this guy. And one weekend he said, "'Hey, I wanna take you to the movies.'" And so I got my hair done, got my nails done, girl, I was looking good. I was ready to go to the movies. And then an hour before we were supposed to go, he told me that he couldn't go because a family emergency came up. And so I was bummed. I was disappointed, but it

was a family emergency. So what are you going to do? So I call some of my friends and I just said, Hey, let's go to the movies. You wanna go to the movies? They said, sure. So we go to the movie, Sadie, we're standing in line to buy our tickets. I look over to the right, like this memory is so seared in my conscience. I look over to the right,

my boyfriend is standing in line, holding hands with another girl, buying tickets. And at the moment I look over at him, he looks at me and the color drains from his face, right? And I felt so humiliated in that moment. Like my friend saw this whole thing. I felt humiliated. I felt discarded.

I felt used. I felt worthless. Well, fast forward 15 years, I'm working at the company formerly known as Facebook and a pastor friend reached out to me and he said, hey, can you give me a call friend reached out to me and he said, hey, can you give me a call? So I call him and he said, I need your help with something serious. He said, I need you to get a Facebook page taken down. It's the Facebook page of one of my sons in

the ministry. And people are saying really mean things on his page. And I just, I would really appreciate you helping to get it taken down. And I was like, what? I've had people ask me to help get their page back up. I've never had anyone ask me to take it down. So I was like, I don't know if I can do that, but send me the link. I'll escalate it and I'll see what we can do. I click the link and immediately the picture staring back at me is the picture of my ex boyfriend from high school. And I was like, what is this? So I scroll down. I see comments on his page, people saying serves him right, cheaters get what they deserve. Um, I can't believe he had the nerve to call himself a pastor out here

living a double life. Um, somebody said, I hope his wife is okay. So I'm just like, what is going on? So I Google his name, article after article after article after article pops up. And he had been murdered by his mistress who also tried to kill his wife. When I look to see the picture of his wife, it's the girl that he was standing in line with at the movie theater in high school. Whoa.

And I'm in this Twilight Zone, right? Because I'm like, Whoa, like, suddenly it hits me because all those years, I was angry, I was, I was hurt all these years. And I went to God and I said, Lord, that could have been me. I was like, Lord, thank you so much. Because I'm realizing I thought he was cheating on me with her. He could have been cheating on her with me. Like all of this comes to me. And as I'm talking to God, I hear the Lord say, Nona, you've been looking at rejection all wrong. You've been so focused on the pain that you have missed the protection. And he said, in my hands, rejection is a gift.

the protection. And he said, in my hands, rejection is a gift. And I was like, what? And I started to look back over the arc of my life and the rejection from my mom and how that became a source of ministry for other people. I looked at rejections in my career and how every closed door became a redirection to something greater. I looked at that situation and how I ended up being protected. Thank God his wife survived, but I realized, Sadie, that it's true while the pain is not a gift. Pain is just the wrapping paper because there is a gift on the inside that can teach you about yourself and other people and God and that Becomes the gift. So that's where the revelation came from. Wow, that is like the craziest story ever

I actually have Similar not not and how it ended but a similar story of high school Whenever I was just started dating this guy and was really excited about it, Valentine's Day was coming up. And he told me that he got me tickets to this movie that was coming out. And it was kind of weird, I should have noticed the red flags

because I was out of town and had planned on being out of town for Valentine's Day. And he knew that. And he sent me a picture that day of these movie tickets and flowers. And was like, forgot you're gonna be out of town, had bought these movie tickets and flowers for you, I was gonna take you out to the movies tonight.

And I'm like, oh, that's so sweet. Like hate that I'm not there, all this stuff. And we had like just started, you know, talking. And so I just thought he was trying to be intentional and show me that he was thinking of me. And then that night he goes to the movie. Well, all my friends went to the same movie and sent me pictures of him with another girl

with the flowers at the movie that he said was my movie ticket. And I was so embarrassed too. I was like so embarrassed, so hurt. Didn't act out of that hurt in the best way. I was super upset about it. And at the time, this is when Twitter was very popular for high schoolers.

So me and my friends may or may not have taken it to Twitter. I do regret that. We were so mad. I can't believe he would do this. They actually like sent me a picture of him and this girl. We did not post this, but they were sending me pictures of them like kissing at the movie and I was just like so hurt by it all the stuff.

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Well, then years later, you know, I move on, of course. He moves on, don't really think about it much anymore. Well, then years later, when me and my husband moved back here, my husband started hanging out with this guy. They became not that guy, a different person. They become best friends. So me and his wife became best friends.

Well, it was the girl who he went on that date with. And so she's like one of my best best friends now. And it's so crazy though, because to hear her story. So actually it was the other way around. They had been in a relationship for years. He was cheating on her with me, and she didn't know that, but the things that she went through in that relationship

that she's now told me was like so hard and so heartbreaking. And here I was as a high schooler feeling heartbroken that he chose her over me and all this stuff. And then I was like, man, that really was a gift that I never got into a relationship with him because that guy had a lot of his own problems he needed to work out that he was putting on

this now friend of mine and who's of course the same thing moved on married an awesome godly man, has children now, but it is crazy. At the time it does not look like God's protection. I've heard you say this, like at the moment it doesn't like it protection. Like you realize that later. But I wanna ask you just with all the, I guess,

research you've done on rejection, the stories of the Bible that you've read on rejection, the scriptures you quote over rejection, writing a book on it. Now, when you face rejection, do you still feel the sting of it as much as you did in the past and the moment? Or do you automatically look at it as like,

okay, this is God's protection? How has it shaped you with all of this, study that you've done on this topic? I love this question because what's been interesting is, as I've been releasing this book about rejection, I have been experiencing so much rejection. Wow. And the thing about it is,

you can't even experience rejection unless you first had the hope that you were accepted. So think about it like this, right? Like, you don't feel rejected because you didn't get a job that you didn't apply for. And you don't feel rejected because someone who you don't like doesn't like you don't feel rejected because you didn't get a job that you didn't apply for. And you don't feel rejected because someone who you don't like doesn't like you. You don't feel rejected because strangers didn't show up

in your time of need. No, you feel rejected because you applied for the job and you didn't get it. Because you gave the best years of your life to someone and they walked away because you raised your hand and told your friend, I need help, and they chose to abandon you instead. And so when you experience rejection, it does not just injure your pride, it actually shatters hope, which breaks your heart. And I want

to give that context because sometimes I think sometimes we over spiritualize rejection. Like we'll say, well, if you just knew Jesus enough, it wouldn't hurt. If you just studied your Bible enough, it wouldn't hurt. It's impossible to not experience hurt when you had hope that was shattered. So I want to give people the grace that the pain that you feel is real and it's natural and it's human. So I'm going to start there. As I've been releasing this book, there are people, one of the parts of a book release that I absolutely hate, I hate asking for endorsements. Like I hate it because- Yes, I agree. You know, like for me, it triggers a rejection preemptively because I don't ever want to be a burden to anybody. So I don't ever want to be a burden to anybody.

So I don't like to ask anybody for anything, right? But, you know, there were some people whose projects I supported, books I endorsed, books I shared on social media, people I connected to other media opportunities. And I was like, Hey, can you help me? And I was either met with silence or no. And I got to tell you, I asked God, I said, Lord, I had to walk through rejection to write this message. Why do I have to walk the rejection to release this message? And what God told me is He said, you have to walk it back out because you are going to be the person who has to be able to look somebody in the

eye and say, this thing works. So I can tell you unequivocally that as I've been releasing this book and I've been experiencing people saying no, who I thought I could count on, yes, there is the initial shock of, oh, I just assumed you were going to say yes. Like I asked just as a formality, right? Because I would do it for you in a heartbeat, right? So there was an initial sting of that. But then because I've been doing the work and because I have the framework that I even

write about in the book, I've been able to process through it quickly. And I think the blessing of it is I'm able to stand on the other side of rejection without holding a grudge against people, right? Without bitterness. And so, yeah, I still experience the initial sting, but I'm able to like immediately deploy the practices that I talk about in the book so that I can process through it and still have joy and peace and love for the people who reject me. That's good. That's so good. I love this story and I want you to tell it if you don't mind about the Oprah interview

situation. Because I think it's so good and why I want to say that is because I think sometimes when it comes to rejection of you ask somebody to do something that would be a huge help to you and then they say no and it's like, yeah, it kind of crushes that hope, and it's like, oh man, you think, I need you to do that. You would help me so much if you could do that. And I think sometimes we falsely put our hope in people thinking we need someone else to help us do whatever,

or even a guy, I need this relationship because I need to feel loved, or I need this person to accept me because I need to feel wanted. And so it's like, we put the hope that we really need to just anchor and God on a person and then when they don't follow through, we feel rejected, we feel hurt. And we also feel hopeless, like, well, then if they're not in relationship with me, how am I going to fill up if they don't endorse it, then how is it going to have the value? And so I just love that this story represents, you don't always need people, you know, like you need God.

And so tell the story about Oprah because it's so good. Absolutely. Yeah. So one of the gifts that I talk about in the book, and this is why I say God, God makes me laugh so much. God is like, okay, if you're going to write about this, you're going to walk this out again. So one of the gifts I share in the book is that the gift of rejection reveals people's role in your destiny. Because when a person doesn't help

you when they could, like, here's the thing. Some people can't, they won't help you because they just can't, right? They can't do what you're asking. But there are other people who can and they don't. There is a lesson in that and that's the gift of rejection. So anyway, I actually have several friends who either they've had their books selected for Oprah's book club, which is huge. Basically, if you go to Oprah's book club, your book is a best seller. It's just happening. It's a really good thing. They've also been on her show. Oh yeah, it's good, right? So I reached out to them and these are people again,

who I've supported. So I'm not asking for help and I don't have any relational equity. These are people I've supported. So my question was simply, hey, would you be willing to give me some tips or even connect me with someone on Oprah's team who could help me get my book considered for the list.

I wasn't like, hey, connect me with Oprah. It wasn't that at all. It was like, can you just help me navigate this? Like, just point me in the right direction. They all said no. And I remember being like crushed. This was at the beginning of the book release process. This was some months ago.

I was crushed because I just knew, I was like, of course you're going to help me. Because look, if I have access to Oprah, and you're like, hey, can you get me, I'm going to, I'm going to find somebody on the team to just be like, hey, I want you to talk to my girl because she has an amazing book. So anyway, around the same time, I got invited to speak at the Black Enterprise Women of Power Summit. And Black Enterprise is this huge magazine that serves predominantly black corporate executives. And so this summit is like 4,000

of the most senior executive black women in America, like women CEOs, C-level vice presidents, whatever. So I go to this event and I'm telling you, I'm so discouraged, cause this happened like right after the no. I'm so discouraged. I go to the event, I'm sitting you, I'm so discouraged, because this happened like right after the no. I'm so discouraged. I go to the event. I'm sitting in the green room.

And there's all these celebrities there. And they're talking with each other and laughing and having a good time. Nobody's talking to me, because they don't know me. But they're having a good time. And then at some point, they all leave, because one of them had to speak. So they all leave.

Now, again, this is a conference of really senior executive women, so everyone is dressed in like Chanel and St. John and like really expensive suits. I'm sitting in the green room, this woman walks in, she's wearing sneakers, jeans, a sweatshirt, and a baseball cap. And she walks in and she looks around the room, I'm the only one there, and she says, hey, did Sherri Shepherd come through here yet?

And I said, yeah, you just missed her. I think she's gone on stage to speak. And she said, Oh, man, I was actually supposed to catch up with her, but I got caught on a call. And so she said, Are you here with someone? And I said, No, I'm actually about to give a keynote. And she was like, Oh, what's your name? I said, Nona Jones. And she said, Well, what are you talking about? I said, I'm talking about my new book. It's called The Gift of Rejection. She was like, that's a crazy title. What is it about? So I begin to give her an overview of the book and some of the points from my message. And this woman goes, you know, that's a really powerful reframing of rejection. Let me give you my business card.

Can you send me your manuscript? And I said, well, sure. And she said, yeah, I spent 15 years as the senior producer of the Oprah Winfrey Show and I would love to send her your manuscript. So crazy. And I was like, what? So this woman, she didn't send my manuscript to Oprah's team. She sent it to Oprah.

Wow. And I have no idea what will come out of that. I have no idea, but I do know this Sadie, God in that moment, when that happened, God took me back to the story of Hagar and how she, after being literally like attacked and discarded by Sarah and Abraham, like she's out in this field by herself, feeling unseen, feeling discarded, feeling dejected. And the Lord meets her there and she refers to him as Elroy, the God who sees me.

God took me back to that because in that moment, I realized that the same God who saw her, saw me. And he just proved in that moment that another person's no is not the end of the story because he is sovereign over all things. That is so good. That is like the coolest story. And I love too how you're like,

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and save over 40% off. Again, that's trymiracle.com slash woe to treat yourself today. And I think so often, like, you know, we can't just look at like how it's gonna end up or what the outcome's gonna be and measure that by God answering our prayer or measure that by success. But I think along the way to getting maybe what you're praying for,

to getting what you might be longing for, man, God's gonna show up in those little intentional ways just to say, I see you, I hear you. You weren't alone in that. You weren't even rejected in that because I was with you the whole time and I was gonna show you the path that I have for you. And so I just see that story is so beautiful.

I wanna talk a little bit too, just the power of people and how I guess limited power people actually do have in the sense of like, whenever you started speaking, I know there was someone trying to kind of knock you down whenever you were just starting to get going on your speaking train. And whenever you were talking about, I wrote down the quote, it says,

"'We can feel rejected when others feel accepted.'" I was actually watching, do you ever watch Survivor by any chance? I've watched it, yeah, I've watched it, yeah. I love Survivor and it really shows like the human, it just shows people at their most human level, right? Because they like don't have food, they hardly have shelter, they have to like all get along and make alliances

and you just really see people oftentimes like revert back to childhood. Like people often act out of like their insecurity or act out of whatever. And it was so interesting because on a couple of weeks ago, this survivor episode, this guy, he's a grown man, okay? He is a full grown man. And him and another man were like chopping coconuts.

Well, the other man, as he was like chopping the coconuts, his whole tribe was like, oh yeah, like you're so good at chopping the coconut. Like you're gonna be so great for our tribe because you know how to chop a coconut. Well, this other guy's over there chopping his coconut and he's like, why don't they care how I chop a coconut? And he like literally is getting like so offended. He's like, they don't even care about me. They don't they care how I chop a coconut? And he literally is getting so offended.

He's like, they don't even care about me. They don't even notice me. So anyways, he's having these silent dialogue with himself about how they don't care about him. They don't notice him, all this stuff. And you can see it in his interview by himself. He's telling the cameraman, I just feel like they don't really care about me

because whenever he chops his coconut, everyone cheers for him. And when I chop my coconut, no one cheers for me. Okay, well then go on a few, you know, a couple, I don't know how long it is in the days of Survivor, but the next time they were playing one of their challenges, he has a total anxiety attack. Like just falls out on the ground,

has this whole anxiety attack. Everybody's like, what's wrong? Are you okay? He has to come to, and then he just says, like, it was like anger. He was like, no one cares that I chop coconuts. They care when he does it. They don't care whenever I do it.

And it was just like exposed that he felt rejected by his tribe, that he just felt like they didn't care about him. And they're like, that's not true. We didn't even know, we didn't mean to make you feel that way. And they all were very sincerely being like, we didn't mean to do that, we didn't do that. And he then goes into sharing

a little bit about his childhood. And he's like, you know, I had just, that's how it was in high school for me. Like people didn't notice me, people didn't care about me and that insecurity. He's like, I haven't thought about that in years and it in high school for me. Like people didn't notice me, if he wouldn't care about me and that insecurity, he's like, I haven't thought about that in years and it just came out of me. And it's so crazy because this was the first episode

and you almost thought, man, maybe he is a little bit different. Maybe he has something going on with him. But since then he's been like completely normal, totally fine. He just needed to like release what that was and share and be vulnerable with his tribe. But it made me think about that because it was like, man, someone else's acceptance made him feel rejected. And then there was another quote in the book you're talking about, like anticipating

rejection. Like he had almost just like, I guess, gotten used to anticipating the feeling of rejection because that's how it had always been for him. And it gets to the smallest thing like a coconut that set him off. And so I think that's why it's so important that things you're talking about, that you uproot that pain. So it's not always like, okay, it can be as small as a coconut that sets you off

or as big as someone to your face actually rejecting you, but you have to get to the place where it doesn't crush you, where it doesn't take you out. And so I think every, this whole story, like as I was reading this book, as I was listening to these things, I just kept thinking about that guy,

because I'm like, does that not represent so many of us when we hold onto something and it's so deeply rooted in us and you don't even realize that kind of, even the viewpoint is letting you see life at. And so I kind of got away from the original question I was going to ask you because I wanted to talk about your speaking stuff, but I kind of got on this this new page of just like the anticipation of rejection. And so can I speak into that? I think what you're saying is so powerful. And I talk a lot about it in the book, because the rejection that we experience today is actually usually simply an expression

of a formative rejection. Because if you actually, and when I talk about, we'll get to this later, I'm sure, but when I talk about how to open the gift, one of the things that I say, the very first step is you have to observe your thoughts, like observe what you think. Because, you know, if you go to a museum and, uh, you know, a docent hands you a pair of headphones and they say, Hey, you know, when you go to the exhibits, just press the red button and you'll hear a narration about the exhibit. If you go and you do that, if you press that button long enough,

you won't even need to press it anymore because you will have the talk track memorized. You will actually have what's narrated memorized. And I believe that when it comes to rejection, many of us have a talk track that plays in our mind that we have not even paid attention to. So for example, you talk about the guy with the coconuts, right, it seems like a really small thing,

but there was a talk track in his mind that nobody cares about me. Like nobody thinks I'm worthy. And I guarantee you, as he mentioned, like that didn't come from the coconut situation, that came from words that were spoken over to him in his formative years. Proverbs 18 and 21 tells us that life and death

are in the power of the tongue. The word that's translated power is the Hebrew word yad, which means hand. So life and death is in the hand of the tongue. What does a hand do? It shapes, it molds. A hand can build, a hand can also destroy. The same hand that can paint the Mona Lisa can pull a trigger and murder someone, right?

And so we have to be very cognizant of the words that have been spoken over us, because many times when rejection happens, what it does is it triggers a talk track that was seeded into us by other people, which is why once you acknowledge what that talk track is, the next step is to ask yourself, is this true? Is this line of thinking, is it true?

Is it true that the talk track that I think gripped my heart for years was that I was unwanted, that nobody wanted me around, that I wasn't good enough. Why? Because when I took the time to actually think about it, that was seeded into me by my mom telling me, I wish I never had you. You were a mistake. You were a burden. So that talk track then became absorbed into my identity and it became absorbed into the narration of myself. But we have to be very careful to really think about where did this come from? It's not from this experience, you know, because somebody who has a really strong identity,

if somebody didn't say anything about the coconuts, they probably wouldn't care. They're like, I just want to chop the coconuts and get the liquid. Exactly. They don't care. But when we've been told that nobody wants you, you're not good enough, that's what plays, and that's what gets reinforced. Yeah, that is so true.

OK, so you mentioned you're a preacher, and you definitely are that. Definitely. If you've ever listened to Nona Jones preach, you've said it before. I love how you say it. You're like, I can't just casually preach. Iona Jones preach. You don't just like, you've said it before. I love how you say it. You're like, I can't just casually preach. Like I got to like preach and it's so true. I love it.

I remember, um, you know how sometimes people will say, oh, it's quiet in this Presbyterian church when you're talking. I've actually preached in Presbyterian churches and I told them, I was like, y'all listen, I only know one way to preach. So I was like, I don't know how to just sit here and teach. And it was funny because it was so quiet. But then after I was done, they were like, oh, that was so amazing. I was like, really? You're like, really?

Because I wasn't hearing y'all. You didn't say a word. That is so funny. So I grew up more in a traditional background. And so yeah, there was not a lot of feedback. But you'd be like, that was great, but you never say it. And so then when I got to churches that would give so much feedback,

I would get so stumped. And it was funny because someone called me out for it. They would be like, why do you just laugh sometimes on stage? Because it throws me off, but I love it. It fuels me, but it also makes me kind of be like, okay, that was good. Okay, cool, we're going somewhere. We're going somewhere.

So I was like opposite than you. But I love listening to you preach because it. Okay, cool. We're going somewhere. We're going somewhere. So I was like opposite than you, but I love listening to you preach because it's like, yes. And there are certain people like you where it's like, your passion for the word just overflows. And that's why it's like, you can't change the way that you preach in a smaller church and you do it at a bigger church. And on the same way I was at something the other night,

there was probably 20 people and I was like bringing the same energy. And someone was like, I love that you bring the same way I was at something the other night, there was probably 20 people, and I was bringing the same energy, and someone was like, I love that you bring the same energy you do at passion conference in this room. And I'm like, well, it's not that I muster up the energy for what I'm walking into. It's just that I love the word,

and I get so excited about it, that I'm just like, y'all gotta hear how cool this is. And when you preach about just the whole story of David, which is really like such a center point of this whole entire book, this whole entire message, I love it because it's a story that many people have heard over and over and over again, but it just comes to life. It's illuminated as you preach it

because you're speaking from a place of relatability. You're like, this is me, this is us. So I just wanna let you preach the story of David and how this whole thing comes together in that story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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and a half ago, I was in the book of first Samuel. I was just reading through the Old Testament and I love, oh man, I love first Samuel. Like there's, there's just so much depth there. But so there's a point in first Samuel chapter 16, where, you know, the prophet Samuel, God sends him to a man named Jesse. And, you know, we all know, like the David and Goliath story, right? Like, we know that David was this young shepherd boy who slayed Goliath. But God sends Samuel to Jesse's house and he tells Jesse, bring all of your sons to a sacrifice because God told Samuel that he chose one of Jesse's sons to be the next king. So, you know, after meeting

the seven sons, Samuel realizes that none of them have been chosen. And so he asked Jesse, he's like, are these all the sons that you have? And in first Samuel 16, verse 11, Jesse's like, oh, well, they're still the youngest. He's out in the fields tending sheep. And so Samuel was like, we'll send for him because we won't sit down until he arrives. Well, you know, it's interesting to me when I read that I was like, okay, Samuel told Jesse to bring all of your sons. Seven of the sons got the memo. And when asked about the whereabouts of the one who didn't, Jesse without batting an eye, without skipping a beat,

he's like, oh yeah, he's out in the field tending sheep. So it wasn't that the youngest son wasn't there because they didn't know where he was, it's that he wasn't invited. Yeah. And when I read that, that revelation did something to me because in the very next chapter in 1 Samuel 17, when we find out that Jesse's son is David,

you know, Jesse sends David to the battlefield because Israel is lined up against the Philistines and they're about to go to battle. And David is out there and he hears Goliath taunting the Israelites. And he's like, who is this uncircumcised Philistine to defy the armies of the living God? So he goes to Saul and he tells Saul, he's like, let no one lose heart on account of this Philistine. He tells him, your servant will go and fight him. Now, Saul looks at David, he's this like young shepherd boy, and he's like, you can't go and fight him. You know, he's been a warrior since his youth, you're only a young man. But then David says this. He says, your servant has been keeping his father's sheep.

When a lion or a bear came and carried off a sheep from the flock, I went after it, I struck it, and I rescued the sheep from its mouth. When it turned on me, I seized it by its hair. I struck it and killed it. Your servant has killed both the lion and the bear. This uncircumcised Philistine will be like one of them.

This was the part that got me, Sadie." This is verse 37 of 1 Samuel 17. He said, the Lord who rescued me from the paw of the lion and the paw of the bear will rescue me from the hand of this Philistine. When I read that, it took me back to the point where Jesse invites all of the sons to meet with Samuel, but leaves David out in a field by himself. But it just so happens that that exact same field where David had been rejected was the training ground that gave him the courage and the confidence to stand before Goliath. Why? Because when he was alone in that field and those lions and those bears came, he didn't have his father or his brothers protecting him. All he had was God. And he learned that that's all he needed. And so

for me, when I read that text, what I realize is every rejection that we experience becomes a training ground for purpose and character and resilience. And the gift of it is that in Deuteronomy 31 and 6, God says, I will never leave you and I will never forsake you. To leave someone is to physically separate yourself from them. To forsake someone is to emotionally separate yourself from them. And God says, I will never physically nor emotionally separate myself from you. So when David is in this field, he is not by himself because God is with him. And that's the whole point of the book. God is with him. God is with you. God is with me. God is with everyone who is watching this, who feels like you've been abandoned and neglected and isolated and discarded and humiliated and blamed and shame.

God is there. You are not alone. And we can take heart from even the story of David that, yes, they left him in that field. But guess what happened? Samuel made Jesse and the sons wait for David to show up. And then he anointed David as the next king. And it says he anointed him in the presence of his brothers. He didn't go to the field and anoint David in secret. He anointed David in the presence of the people who discarded him. And I believe God did that

to prove to David, his brothers and his father, that if you leave me out in a field, God knows where I am. And that's my hope and my heart for everyone. As you read this book, it's like you will realize no matter how alone you feel, God knows exactly where you are. Yep. Wow. If you leave me out in a field, God knows where I am. That's like the most, whoae that's good moment ever.

I just think about so many people just being in places that they just feel so unseen, so unnoticed, thinking, God, how are you gonna do these things in my life if I'm here? Especially, I think, especially people in their 20s, because so many podcast listeners, we have listeners of all ages, so I'm not discounting any one season of life in this.

You can be in this anywhere. But especially in their 20s, when they're trying to figure out like, man, I have all these dreams, I have all these desires, I have all this passion, but yeah, I'm sitting here and I'm working a job I really don't wanna work at or this person's not noticing me or I haven't gotten noticed by the professors

or the jobs that I desire or the relationship that I want to be in. But it's like, man, God knows where you're at and He will come after you. Like, you don't have to strive. Go ahead. Can I, I want to, I want to, because as you're saying this, like this is taking me to another part of First Samuel 16. And this happens after David is anointed. The Bible says that the spirit of the Lord left Saul and that an evil spirit started tormenting him. And so, Saul's attendants said to him, an evil spirit is tormenting you. Command us to search for someone who can play the

liar. He will play it when the evil spirit from God comes on you, you'll feel better. So Saul said to his attendants, find someone who plays well and bring him to me. It says, one of the servants answered, I have seen a son of Jesse of Bethlehem who knows how to play the liar. He's a brave man and a warrior. He speaks well and he's a fine looking man and the Lord is with him. And then it says, Saul sent messengers to Jesse and said, send me your son David, who is with the sheep. So there's two things I want to point out here.

The first is, the king came looking for David in the place where he was rejected. Like the king actually came looking for David in the field. So when you feel like, oh, nobody knows where I am. I'm so overlooked. No, because God knows where you are, purpose will find you. It's great. Favor will find you in the exact place where you feel like you've been rejected. God knows your address.

Yeah. That's the first thing. The second thing I wanna point out, which is really important, is if you notice, it wasn't that the king knew of David. It was that a servant in the king's court knew of David. And so sometimes we feel like, oh my gosh, the person with the platform, I need to get to them, or the person who we think has the power, we need to get to them. No, God will use a servant in the king's court to place your name in rooms that you

don't have access to. My name has been placed in rooms that I didn't have access to rooms that I was denied access to, not by the person who had the key, but by a person who was in the room with the person who had the key. So our job is really not to position ourselves and strive and try to make it happen. Our job is just to prove that we are worthy of God's favor. What does that mean? That means living a life that honors God. I'm telling you, Sadie, I am the most shocked person. Like what I get to do, I am shocked.

But the reality is I am not responsible for any of it. God has orchestrated this. Not because I positioned myself, but because God has done it. So I just want to encourage anyone who you feel like you've been overlooked. You know, you're like, Oh, like you said, Hey, I'm in this job. I don't even want to be in this job. Guess what? David was left out in a field by himself tending sheep. He was not trying to be the next king. That's right. That's good. He wasn't. He was just tending sheep.

That's right. And God sent the prophet to find him. So just keep doing what you're doing to the glory of God. That is so good. I'm like, yes, yes, yes. I shared a message a couple of years ago and it was called Anointed Right Now. And I was talking about like how David was anointed, but yet he was still out there tending sheep

and you know, doing music. But I love how it wasn't David marching around the palace, playing his music, trying to be noticed. It was like, no, like he's still tending sheep when he was noticed. Like he's in the field. And I just love that. Cause I do think that like so many people, they want to strive because you noticed. Like he's in the field. And I just love that.

Cause I do think that like so many people, they want to strive because you're trying to like expedite the process, but it's like, no, maybe you're not ready yet. You know, maybe where you're at right now is sharpening those tools. It's getting you ready. It's just showing God that like,

you're going to be obedient. You're going to be faithful even in those small things. And I actually had the coolest thing someone said to me recently. Cause a lot of people will come up to me. I've had a lot of people come up to me, even in coffee shops, and they see me, and they're like,

hey, I want to do what you're doing. How do I start? And I always say, I was like, well, really and truly, like, I started leading Bible studies in like eighth grade. And that is what I love to do. And I feel like in a lot of the same way, I'm still doing that just on bigger platforms,

but don't look at the platform. Like just lead a Bible study. Like do the heart of what you feel God calling you to do. If it's ministry, then like minister to people. And it was really cool because I had this girl come up to me at conference this year. And she was like,

Sadie, can I tell you something? I said, yeah, she said, I have compared myself to your life for a long time. And I've told the Lord, I want to do what she's doing. And we were right beside the stage at LO Conference when she said this. And she said, and to me, when I was praying that, what I was asking God for was this. And she pointed to the stage. She said, I thought it had to look like this to do what you're doing.

And she said, but now that I've been in a room with you and I've seen what you're carrying, she's like, this is not even it. And it was just so cool for her to say that. And she said, what's really excited me is that like, I've seen what you brought to a really small town, just a faith in God that he is bigger than your small town. And she goes, so I'm gonna go out to my small town and I'm gonna start ministering to people

and I'm gonna start about it. And she starts telling me what, I was like, yes, yes, like that's it. Like you don't have to strive, just be faithful where you're at. That is what the Lord is looking for. And so I love that you shared that. That is so good.

Well, I'm gonna say, I think part of what causes us to strive is a rejection wound. Yeah, that's true. At the base of it, a lot of times we are striving for notoriety and we're striving for platform, not because we are called to that, but because rejection is driving us to that.

Because we are conflating platform with worth and we want to matter. And so that's why honestly, that's one of the reasons why I wrote this book because look, I've been there. Like I had, I had so much success in my career early on because I was, my ambition was fueled by rejection pain. I wanted to matter. I wanted to, you know, have the title, have the position. I wanted to be in charge because that gave me a sense of worth. But it wasn't until I really, truly understood my worth in Jesus that none of that mattered. And frankly, when I understood my worth in Jesus and I was no longer striving after approval

in man's eyes, that is when God pivoted my entire trajectory and put me on this path. Because here's the thing, God will not enlarge your territory if he cannot entrust it to you. And some of us are in places that our character cannot sustain. And that's why you see people falling.

That's why you see people exhausted. You see people who are bitter and angry because you put yourself there. That's why you see people exhausted. You see people who are bitter and angry because you put yourself there. God didn't. So I love what you're saying. And I love your examples. Like, look, faithfully serve, serve the one, serve the three. And if God decides to give you thousands, praise God. If God decides to give you millions, praise God. But one of the revelations that God gave me years ago is that you are not worthy of more until you steward your seed like it's your harvest. Wow.

That's good. And I think we have to remember that, yeah, the harvest looks good, but if you don't know how to steward a seed, the harvest is eventually going to die because you don't even know how to steward the seed. Yep. Oh man, that is so true. That is so true. And I think too, like again, people might look at you in this season of your life where it's more successful and think like,

oh, that's where you started. It's like, no, I remember feeling all these feelings. Like, because I remember in high school, my senior year, when I decided to not go to college and do ministry, I remember in high school, my senior year, when I decided to not go to college and do ministry, I remember people literally making fun of me to my face, thinking, that's not gonna work. And I wore my very first Live Original t-shirt to school

on like senior day. My sister made it for me. It wasn't like, this is selling. This is something my sister literally made for me. I wore it, owning it. Someone looked at me and I'll never forget this, just the tone she set it in. She went, live original.

She went, that's embarrassing. Like no one knows what that is. And so, and to be fair, no one did because it wasn't, but it was very rude and it felt like rejection. It was like, ouch, okay. Well, then of course, like the next thing that you want is like you wanna prove to them, well watch, you know, watch. So then, I didn't do this out of spite,

but the next step for me was I had this one event, went really, really well. Then I'm like, oh, okay, I wanna go on tour. And so we did a tour, it was not successful. I mean, we had to cancel two dates because literally in an arena, 47 people bought tickets. Well, then I'm embarrassed because then I have to like announce on social media, hey, we're actually not going to Albuquerque because no one wanted to come, which then just affirms what she said of that's embarrassing.

However, I wasn't doing those things for man's approval. I wasn't doing those things for the, you know, success of a tour date selling out. I was doing that to really minister to people, to be confident in who they were originally created to be by God. And so that was a learning point for me. That was a time of really leaning into God and saying,

what actually do you have for my life? What does this need to look like? That was around the time I moved to Nashville and planted myself there and just grew a lot as a person. And I look at it now and, you know, I'm 10 years into doing Live Original, but like it's so much, I feel like that was such a pivotal time for me because it wasn't about the success of it,

how many people showed up. It was really about the heart. We did a show in New York, again, it's supposed to be like in big, it's supposed to be thousands of people, 200 people bought tickets. And I said, can we just do it? So we did it and those 200 people,

the room felt so small, it felt so empty. But again, we just were being faithful to where God had us and what he had us in. And it wasn't impressive. It was, it was almost a little bit embarrassing, but yeah, at the same time, like, I had to ask myself, why am I doing this? Is it to sell out venues or is it to actually ministering

to impact people? And so yeah, I just look back at that, man, such pivotal times that in some ways felt like being out there tending sheep. What where's your heart posture? You know? And so anyways, yeah, you can look at the story now, but let's go back a little bit to where we were actually in in that shaping point. But anyways, we are like running out of time and I told my team, I said to them, I said, this is going to be a hard interview because I have way too much I want to ask her.

And so the good news for all of our listeners is there is an entire book called The Gift of Rejection. And everything I didn't get to that I wanted to get to, you can go read for yourself. At the same time too, Nona is an incredible preacher speaker. She has a YouTube page where you are going to get some great encouragement and the hype is real. If you need a good morning message to wake you up, definitely listen to Nona.

Fran, you're amazing. I'm so grateful for just, man, I'm so grateful for you as a person, that you are so vulnerable and you lead with that. And I said this before, I think I said this in the prayer before, but you have such a unique ability to just share some of the hardest

things in life, but also bring joy and comfort and love. And so thank you for going there, not shying away from it, but still making us laugh. I mean, that's a gift. You're a very well-rounded human and I'm grateful to know you. Oh, Sadie, listen, I'm just honored to even be in your orbit. I love to see what God is doing in and through you and how you have surrendered every aspect of your life to Him and it's been such a blessing to witness.

I truly believe, and this is gonna sound crazy because of all that you've already done, but I truly believe that you're just getting started. I truly believe that. I believe that there's so much more that God has for you. There are dreams that are in your heart that may seem crazy and you don't even want to voice them because it's like, that's not going to happen. But I believe God is going to blow your mind even with that.

And so I just thank God for you. And thank you for having me and just being a friend and encouraging me. I really appreciate it. And I love you and your team. Oh, thank you so much. Hey, I received that. You're speaking to my heart. So I appreciate that.

Thank you, friend. Thank you so much. Thank you.