WHOA That's Good Podcast - How You Can Take Ownership Over the Things Making You Anxious | Sadie, Christian & Freddie

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

Sadie and Christian are joined by LO Counselor, Freddie, to talk about anxiety. They each share their "pulse check" on how they're navigating anxiety right now and then they begin answering questions related to anxiety: is it sinful, how to stop the spiral, working through anxiety as a couple, mom anxiety, and how to really and truly believe what the Scriptures say about anxiety. Freddie encourages us to take ownership of the things in our life that are causing us to feel anxious. And Sadie shares her childhood struggles with anxiety and how it's evolved, changed, and even decreased in her life lately — but it took work and faith!  This Episode of WHOA That's Good is Sponsored by: https://gominno.com — Get your first month FREE when you use code WHOA at sign up. Take advantage of this web-only exclusive offer today! Exclusive $20-off Carver Mat frame at http://AuraFrames.com. Use code WHOA at checkout to save! https://www.trymiracle.com/whoa — Get 40% off + 3 FREE towels with code WHOA at checkout! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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struggled with to some capacity but that's anxiety and we know that what are you doing? I had an itch in my shoulder. Sorry I'm getting anxious about what Christian's doing beside me. I just was like looking at my shoulder. Okay sorry. We are gonna be talking about anxiety which is a topic that most people have struggled with in life, not currently struggling with. And we all have stories of working through anxiety, overcoming anxiety, living in it, all of the, I think we kinda can probably talk about the whole range. I've had moments in life where I've had crippling anxiety

and then just casual, everyday anxiety, and then moments of really, truly overcoming it. We've gone through things as a couple with that. And then Freddie's also gonna bring a perspective of like, one, she is our friend Freddie, so she'll talk about her own anxiety, but from a counselor's perspective of how to work through some of these things. You guys actually sent in a lot of great questions. We were going to just tell our stories and kind of just let it flow, which we could, but we could be here forever. And so we decided to see if you guys had specific questions.

And once we got them back, I thought they were so good and actually lead into our stories anyways. And so we're gonna lean into y'all's questions and hopefully tackle this massive topic of anxiety. So before we start, let's just get a little pulse check. That's the episode name, Tackling Anxiety. Oh, I like that. Okay, you heard it here first.

You see it on YouTube or podcasting, Tackling Anxiety by Christian Huff. With Christian Huff. We're getting a pulse check right now. Currently in this state slash season of your life, how is your anxiety level, Christian? Good question. You can check my pulse.

Anxious. I'm actually doing pretty good right now. Yeah, I feel like, I mean, so for me, do you want me to kind of just give them just a little synopsis? Go for it, and'm just gonna kind of like, just give a brief little synopsis. Go for it, and then we'll get Freddie's post-check. So for me, I never at any point in my life wrestled with anxiety, like growing up. And then we got married, still no anxiety,

which was like, you know, I don't wanna say harder for me to like, maybe like relate to you on. Do you feel like I was ever? I think it's interesting because one of the things that was really helpful to me is that you did not struggle with anxiety. So now I'm no longer helpful. No, you're no longer help.

No, no, no, no, I'm not saying that. Freddie can counsel us through this. It's kind of what you're saying. I shouldn't say it like that. But what I mean was like, no, you were very helpful to me because you didn't struggle with it. And so you were like, one, you went with me to Dodger Aiman

to really understand my struggles with anxiety. You heard the tips he had for me and you helped me actually work those out and walk those out. You were extremely helpful to me and anxiety. So I would not, no, I feel like you tried very hard to understand what I went through. Do you feel like you were an anxious person pre-fame? Oh yeah. You were? I was an anxious kid. You were? Yes. I like hid behind my mom

everywhere we went and people would ask my mom if I smiled because I was scared. Which is so sad because you have a beautiful smile. I would cry every time. I would see rain clouds coming at school. Not because I was scared it was going to rain. I was scared there would be a tornado, and I wasn't with my mom, and she was going to be OK. That's so sad. But it was just anxiety. Like, me and this one other kid, Evan, not to call you out,

me and Evan cried at every storm in school. We were the cry kids. Me and Evan, the cryers. And I would get so anxious that there was going to be a tornado and like mom was going to not know because she doesn't care about the weather and like wasn't going to be okay. And so yeah, I've always been more, I would lean more towards anxiety because I would think about the worst case scenario from like young age. Little sidebar.

Um, no, so for me, never, never wrestled with it growing up. We got married, never struggled with it. We had a hell scare with Honey like two and a half years ago. And that was kind of like the birth of like when I kind of started wrestling with anxiety. And I feel like, yeah, after having kids, that's for me kind of when I started to wrestle with things. Because we had a moment with Honey,

if something happened, pretty scary. And then after that, it was like the fear, my anxiety would kind of stem back to like, I don't want to ever go back to that place again of like feeling helpless, scared, you know, not knowing how things were going to kind of turn out, blah, blah, blah. So then I feel like the times where I'm most anxious

are like when our kids get sick or things like that. Which they seem to be sick all the time. Vulnerability fashion, we just came off of a month of being sick and your anxiety was really bad. Like it was really hard, you know? And now like we're not sick so you're doing good but yours is very much. You did check my pulse right now. I know, it was really hard. And now we're not sick, so you're doing good, but yours is very much- You did check my pulse right now.

I know, I was just kidding though when I said anxious. But yours is very connected to our kids and being sick and that kind of thing. And I feel like yours is, I mean, it has been really hard because at first you just didn't know what was happening. I've never felt this before. And then also it's like, anxiety is so loud in your mind, you know, like everybody's mind,

but I feel like that's been something that's been hard for me to watch you have to go through is like, you really have like a loud anxiety that something will happen if we say. And then the thing with our marriage that's hard is like, because I have it too, then we make each other more anxious because sometimes anxiety breeds anxiety,

where it's like you start convincing yourself it really is like really bad. When you kind of need someone to be like, no, we're okay. Well, that's the thing I told you, because I, yeah, I mean, I was like, before Christmas they both had flu and RSV. So like, you know, all the typical high fevers,

you know, waking up in the middle of the night, just kind of all this stuff, breathing treatments and everything. And it was like a month, I told you that. It was like, I couldn't take a shower for like a month without thinking I was like hearing someone screaming. And yeah, like whether one of the kids got really sick or something happened or blah, blah, blah.

So yeah, most of my stuff usually comes attached to like, yeah, like kids I don't really wrestle with, you know, social anxiety or day to day, like going on a plane, you know, stuff like that. Mine's more so connected to like the kids and stuff. But it is, it is, yeah, it's challenging because I spent 25 years, 24 years of my life never wrestling with it.

Then it was like, one day it was like, bam. So it's new territory. I'm still trying to navigate it. But it is tough. I used to kind of think anxiety was like a, kind of like a. Don't even say it. I'm just kidding, you can say it.

Well, no, I just kind of thought it was more like, dramatic, I'm not gonna say the word I was gonna say, but I thought it was maybe for people who are- Well, I think it's fair to say, because that is the problem. We're gonna talk about that later, about how to be afraid to say it. Well, I thought it was more so, yeah, for the weak.

You know what's crazy? Someone else said that very line, I thought anxiety was for the weak. You know what's crazy? Someone else said that very line. I thought anxiety was for the week, like years ago. And I was like, bro, that was so insensitive. Like, and it was a girl that said it. So I had to say, bro, it wasn't you. I was just like, bro, I can't believe that. I just thought it was surprising that she said that.

I thought that was like insensitive. And I was surprised that her perspective was that. And then I was like, that is so crazy to me because it was so real to me. The struggle was so real that I was just like, man, I can't believe that. But I think it's so good that you said that because that is the exact same line someone else said,

meaning that like a lot of people think that. You know, like most people who don't struggle with it think like it's something that you're just being dramatic or it's for the weak or you're not strong enough or like get yourself together where it's for the weak, or you're not strong enough, or like get yourself together, where it's like, no, it's so real. Well, I also thought too, it was like a buzz, it was like, I feel like at one point it was like-

Everybody had anxiety. Yeah, it used to be like, what's still kind of like pornography, it was like, everyone struggles with it, so it was like, I kind of find a sense of community and like a struggling, kind of like, almost like a wallowing sense in it. I kind of felt like that with anxiety was like, everyone struggles with it.

So let me label myself as that. And as if there's no, like you can't overcome it. It was more like, this is what I am. This is what I struggle with. I'm always going to kind of wrestle with this. And it's like, you don't always have to do that. So I kind of thought it was like, you know, I kind of just felt like it was cool to like wrestle with that.

Like I'm super busy. Like I'm- Yeah, I have anxiety. Right now, yeah. Which we're going to get into all the questions specifically. We touched on some of the questions, but I want to actually dive into what you asked. But before that, Freddie, what's your journey with anxiety?

I've never like been diagnosed, obviously. I have day today small stressors. My anxiety really, if you're gonna label it as that, comes out in big moments, I guess. So, like dating, I was very anxious around dating once I actually started following the Lord. I had a lot of, and I even hesitate to call it anxiety because I think it was appropriate fears

about becoming a mom and what that would look like. And so I'm very slow to call it anxiety, but I can count multiple times where I would wake up in the morning having anxiety for no reason and having to learn to combat that in ways that helped me. But I would say it was more seasonal in moments if my heart wasn't in the right place, if I was actively in sin that was causing me

to have anxiety, things like that. But it's never been like a diagnosis. I've never had to take medication or anything like that. Yeah. Yeah. Y'all, the struggle is real when it comes to finding good things for my kids to watch. And that is where Minnow comes in.

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offer so make sure you sign up at GoMino.com with the code WO to get your first month for free. I think like that's so good. I love it's like there's appropriate fear which we're gonna get into that too. But I think that's the thing when you know you have have a problem with anxiety, it's irrational fear. It's not fear because of this or fear because of that. It's like, I just am afraid. I remember people used to be like,

what are you anxious about? And I'd be like, I don't know. It's not like, yes, I can tell you I'm anxious about this or anxious about that, but it's like, I always feel anxious, like always, you know? And then like panic attacks will happen and I'll get like way over anxious. Like I think I'm having a heart attack

or I think we need to go to the hospital. Like a total irrational level of fear that I've worked myself up to and I can't even pinpoint why. It's just like I let it live in me, you know? And so, which I actually didn't take medicine for it. And I don't think there's anything wrong with medication. I would throw that out there.

I think there's a time and a place for it. But in my case, I am grateful I didn't because I do think I had enough support around me to help me overcome it without medication. And I do think now just the things that I have learned from a support system and just overcoming it is that like I'm capable of overcoming it, you know, like in other seasons and other things

that I go through, like, okay, I've been here, I know this, I know what's happening, and I know how to get through it. And so instead of just like saying, okay, I need to take medicine. So I'm thankful I'm not dependent on that. However, I do understand that there is time and place for it. And I think you need to listen to your doctor

and your support system on what's best for you. But yes, I definitely have lived in it and I feel like I have common fears now that are just natural, but I do not live with anxiety. And that was a really cool thing for me actually. I went to the doctor that I hadn't been to in a long time when we moved back here,

because I had previously gone to her before I moved to Nashville. And she handed me my chart and she was like, hey, here's your old chart, just change anything that's been changed. And you typically look at the address or your phone number or whatever you think might have changed. And it was so cool because on her paper,

like I had like anxiety, like that was a part of my medical page and I marked it out and I was like, this has changed. Like I don't have that anymore. That's not like, that is not a defining characteristic of who I am. And that was such a cool thing for me because I didn't ever think I would actually be able

to overcome. I thought that was gonna be something that would be my whole life. Cause like I said, it wasn't like fame that made me anxious. I kind of was like that from a little kid. So I thought this is just who I am. This is a part of who I am. But the word is clear.

Like I have not given you a spirit of fear. I want a power of love and a sound mind. Like you are not a slave to fear, but you have been adopted to call me the Abba Father. Like I think once I started reading that being like, okay, if I am a child of God, this anxiety thing cannot be my identity. Doesn't mean I'm not gonna wrestle with it.

Doesn't mean it's not something that might come up in my life, but it is not who I am, you know? And so really taking the scripture and believing it and walking that out has been really powerful for me. But- That's great. We're gonna get into a lot of the questions

that we kind of already just teased. And that's why I love your question so, so much. Someone said, is having anxiety sinful since the Bible tells us not to fear? I love to talk about this and then we can all kind of hit it but, and we might have different opinions on this. I personally don't think anxiety itself is sinful. I think anxiety sometimes is a consequence of sin.

Like you mentioned, like sometimes when you are living in sin, you have more anxiety. It's a part of that, but it's not always that way. Certainly in high school, when I was actually living more in sin, I actually was more anxious, and a lot of my anxiety stemmed from feeling like a hypocrite because I was living kind of a double life.

But then there have been seasons in my life where I'm not living in sin. Like I'm like, I'm doing great, but I have anxiety. So it's not always attached to that, but it can be. I also think that like when the Bible says, do not fear, it's not so much of a, oh, because you're sinning, it's actually God's like love saying, don't be afraid. You don't have to be afraid.

At most, every time that God says, do not fear, in the Old Testament, He follows it by, for I am with you. So it's almost like this encouragement to someone who is naturally going to be afraid with what God's asking them to do. And then he's immediately attaching it with a promise. I'm gonna be with you. You don't have to be afraid.

So it's not like sinful, it's human. It's natural. You're gonna have anxiety. But God's saying, look, you don't have to be afraid. So it's not like sinful, it's human, it's natural, you're gonna have anxiety. But God's saying, look, you don't have to go through that. Like you don't have to fear like all other men do because I'm promising you that I'm with you and if I'm with you, then what can man do to you? And so you have this like assurance.

So I don't necessarily think it's sinful, but I do think like sin is anything that separates you from God. And in my case, I feel like a lot of times my anxiety did not separate me from God. It actually made me dependent on God. It led me to God. I think God, not that God caused my anxiety,

I think He allowed me to have it for a time because it taught me how to depend on Him and grow in Him. But I think if anxiety is separating you from God in the sense of like, okay, I know I shouldn't do this, but because I'm anxious and I'm not gonna stand up for myself, I'm gonna do it, well, that's sin. So all that to say it's a kind of messy answer for, I don't think anxiety itself is sin.

I think sometimes anxiety can actually be used to further you into your faith and dependency on God. But at the same time, can it be used in sinful scenarios? Yes. Does the enemy use it as a tool? Yes. And you have to kind of discern where you're at with that. Yeah.

When I'm sitting with a client, like kind of what I'm assessing is what's causing the anxiety and if it's not clear, well, my mind jumps to a few different things. So obviously like you can just have natural anxieties if your baseline, you're a more anxious person. So I think it's really important to know like who you are.

If you have a natural baseline of you're gonna be more anxious, you shouldn't compare that to someone else who doesn't struggle with that because then maybe you are going to think like, oh, I'm sinful because I'm struggling with anxiety, which I agree with you, I don't think it's automatically a sin

to struggle with anxiety. But I think there's also reasons alongside of if you're acting in sin. So if you've had something traumatic happen to you, you're probably going to struggle with some form of anxiety. If you're going through grief, you're going to struggle with some form of anxiety. And those are not typically induced by your sin, right? Like you might be anxious about something traumatic that

happened to you, and then you're constantly feeling anxious every time you're triggered by it. That's not really you actively sinning. That's more of a product of your environment, of sin, of the fallen world. And so I think it's really important to know, because if you're going to treat your anxiety like it's a sin, then you're going to be so condemning to yourself. You're going to be so harsh on yourself, which is in turn going to make your anxiety worse. And I see that a lot. I see a lot of the times people are either so harsh on their anxiety or they're actively continuing in their sin and they're like, why am I so anxious?

And it's like, well, because you're doing exact, you say you follow the Lord, but you're doing exactly what His scripture says not to do. And so that's kind of the Lord's kindness to lead you to repentance through anxiety because He's not allowing you to completely fall flat on your face. He's allowing you to see like, wait a second,

I have control over my actions, I can change this and hopefully change the fruit of it, which is anxiety. I love that. And now I'm thinking about scripture. Like so many of the anxiety scriptures are like, come near to me, you know, draw near to me. You know, if what is it, the one, if you're anxious about anything, like a prayer petition, present your request to God,

or when it talks about how through thanksgiving and gratitude, all of it is more attached to coming to the Lord, giving your burden to the Lord, clinging to the Lord, drawing near to Him. Do not fear for I am with you. Do not fear for I am your God. Do not fear for I am your God. There's such a unity with someone who's afraid and God who is all powerful.

And that's not the same tone that sin is addressed with. It's like, flee from it. Don't do that. That's always bad, whereas anxiety, it's like an invitation to come near. I think that's really good. I think you all articulated it good, because I feel like it can be a double edged sword to be like,

it is a sin, it's not a sin, because there's always going to be someone listening that forms their own opinion and believes it very much a certain way. But I mean, if you look at the Bible, I mean, I feel like you could say when Abraham goes into Egypt and tells Pharaoh that his wife is his sister or Moses, when God approaches him or when Elijah is running from Jezebel and he asks the Lord that he would die. That's like allowing anxiety to lead you to sin.

Yeah, but I'm saying like people in the Bible wrestle with that. I mean, even I would argue that Jesus in the garden, when he's sweating blood, asking the father to take the cup, I would say that's a form of him being anxious about something and obviously Jesus is perfect and didn't sin. So there's your kind of argument right there. But yeah, I think if anything, cause you're also establishing two bases

of like nervousness versus anxiety. Like what, you know, I feel like they can kind of intertwine in a sense. But yeah, I think if your anxiety presses you towards God, I think that's good. I think that's healthy. But I feel like if it causes you to doubt and to truly let self-shame kind of rule you, and you always feel condemned, you always feel, and it's condemnation or conviction, then yeah, I would say that it's not healthy

if you're currently living in a state that just pushes you away from God. It's really like, what do you do with it? Where does your anxiety bring you? What is it drawing you? That's what James says, he who knows the right thing to do and fails to do it for him, that is a sin. So like for you, like we all have different,

you know, things we struggle with, we all have different ways that we kind of combat it. So like if you continue doing what you know is wrong, then for you, it is a sin. My family loves taking pictures. We never want to miss a good photo opt-in y'all. We have so many awesome moments captured in photos. And for most people, those would just get lost in your camera roll on your phone.

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Don't forget to mention that we sent you so that you can support the show. We're so grateful and I know you guys are gonna love it. Terms and conditions will apply. I'm Freddie. I love what you said too. It totally has to do with what your baseline is as a person. And this morning, probably because we're having this conversation, you know, Instagram hits you with like what you've been talking about.

Yeah. And this like meme popped up and it was, it was pretty funny. It was like girlfriend drank as much caffeine that could kill a horse, listened to true crime all day, and has the nerve to tell me at night, like, I'm feeling anxious. And it was like, yeah, you're feeling anxious because you drank so much caffeine,

you just listened to true crime all day, whatever, and you're gonna come to me and act surprised that you're anxious. And I think that that is so true. A lot of anxiety too, you do have to take ownership for what you're adding to your life that's making you anxious. And people do not take that kind of ownership. And they're like, why do I feel anxious?

And it's like, okay, back it up. What could have possibly led you here? And it's pretty obvious. For me, I did have to cut out caffeine for a long time in my life. I cut it out for two years and it was super helpful maybe it was maybe it was longer that's a lot no it was yeah it was like three four years anyways I cut it out for a long time and it was super

helpful because caffeine would make my heart beat faster and it would make my body feel anxious and then until my mind, something's wrong and da da da. I cannot listen to true crime. I do not watch scary things. I do not let myself, I do not feed my anxiety. It's not something I want to battle with. It's not something I want to have. So I'm not gonna invite anxious things in my life.

Outside of the natural stressors that life will bring me. It's like, we already have a lot to be anxious about. I don't need like extra anxiety. Well, it's funny you say that Christian, like it's similar to other struggles because it's so shocking to me when clients come in and they tell me all that they're doing to provoke their anxiety.

And then they still ask me why they're anxious. Because you would think that people are like, well, it's like anything else. Don't like stop your own spiral. But one of the biggest things in counseling is teaching people how to stop their spiral, which to some people sounds like common sense. Like, well, you just don't do what causes you

to go down that spiral. But it's like such a lack of self-control. And that's what I see in like nine times out of 10. When you really boil down the anxiety, it's a self-control thing. It's a control thing. It's, I want to be able to control what I can't control and that's why I'm anxious.

I want to be able to do what I want to do without the results of feeling anxious and that's why I'm anxious. And it's really simple. I was actually with a client this week and she was like, that's so simple yet so hard. And I was like, you're right, it's hard because it requires constant self-control.

It's not a one-time decision to say, I'm not gonna do that. You have to make the decision every time that there's a movie option to go, I'm not gonna watch this scary movie. Even though it might be easier for you now because you know the consequences, it's like, when you first started that,

it was not as easy. I remember leaving a party, not like a crazy party, which is a lot of friends over at a house and they all wanted to watch a scary movie in high school. And I was like, oh no, I don't want to watch this. Like, let's pick something else. And then it was like clear, everyone was like landing on this.

And I was like, no, really, can we please not watch this? They're like, no, we really all want to watch this. And I was just like, okay, I'm not trying to be whatever, but I'm gonna have to go home because I actually cannot watch this. And I think one other person ended up coming to my house with me, but I was like, I'm not willing to do it

because I know the consequences, but I do remember it being harder back then because you feel embarrassed or you feel whatever. But I'm like, okay, one night to y'all that's fun and scary is gonna be like weeks for me. Not even just weeks. I will remember things that scare me like years ago. On the same thing.

At like midnight when I'm laying there, I'm like, oh my God, one time I heard that story, you know? On the same way. I don't even wanna hear the story, you know? So yeah, I feel like once you realize the peace that's available to you and you realize the value of it, you're not gonna be as willing to allow anxiety to come in in dumb ways,

like watching a movie that's just not even worth it. Whereas for me though, what Christian loves to say now, which cracks me up, he's like, do you have to just work yourself up? Because I won't have anxiety for so long, and then one day I have a massive, everything feels overwhelming, anxious, not panic attack like I used to, but kind of.

He's like, can you just actually space it out a bit? Could you just have a little anxiety here and there instead of one massive day? It's like, imagine you're boiling water, and it's just room temperature, and then all of a sudden it's like. There's no worry. No, it's like it goes from room temperature

to like in the stove. It's like, it skipped the 212, but it's like, it's just out of the pot. And. There's no like steady boil. Why I said that is, why I'm saying that is because used to, like it was more obvious what was like my spiral. You know, like it would be more silly things. Like I would, okay, I watched this, I listened to this.

Something happened, somebody made a weird comment on my Instagram and you know, cause back in the, I mean really still, but you know, that's been a part of my life and people have done weird things and I've had crazy people do weird things. And now you have a super sweet, awesome dad husband. Thankfully, but that caused a ton of anxiety in my life

for years, especially when I was single, before we got married, because I was so scared something was gonna happen. But it was more obvious, whereas now, it's not like things that are, oh, that would make you anxious. It's more like life gets busy. The kids were sick and I'm trying to hold everything together

and then I'm trying to do all the work that I'm gonna do. And then I'm like, I get too busy and I'm taking care of the kids. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh my gosh, my calendar is so full and I'm not gonna have a single day to take a break and I haven't seen my friends blah, blah, blah. And then boom. But it's like, I haven't seen my friends blah, blah, blah, and then boom.

But it's like, I didn't really realize it until it just hits me, it's like getting overworked or whatever, or busy. It's like there's like a little turd on the ground. And it just flies up and it just hits the fan and it's just, it's like a little turd to like diarrhea. Okay, wow. The comic relief in this is good.

Really should have started with the boiling pot of water analogy. All that to say... But my point earlier was that anxiety, it's like other stuff that we can wrestle with. Which, this is kind of a tough thing, because comparing it to actual sins, but like. I'm sorry, I can't record from the diarrhea. That was a great visual. It's an actual sin.

No, I know, it was like, you know, I just turned the fan into diarrhea. Hey, this is a Monday episode, it's not a Wednesday one. You know, we're fine. But my point was, like, for instance, if you're struggling with lust, like, and you look at a counselor following, it's like, that's going to feed that. Or if you struggle with jealousy, certain friend groups that you have or certain things that you constantly are filling yourself with, like, that's going to feed your jealousy.

Are you still laughing at my analogy? It was spot on. I like what you're saying now, but I can't stop laughing and now I'm sweating. No, but that's my point. It's like, if you know you're anxious, whatever you feel like makes you anxious, it's going to continue to feed it and you're going to continue to just kind of live in that. Your point is really good. The only reason I was saying what I was saying is like, my life is so different than what it used to be where I don't live in that space so. Your point is really good. Yeah. Thanks, baby. The only reason I was saying what I was saying is like, No, what you said was great. My life is so different than what it used to be

where I don't live in that space, I'm not doing like obvious things to get myself there, but I feel like the anxiety I describe is probably really common for a lot of moms. Like, just, you get overwhelmed. It's not even like as much anxiety, cause it's not an anxiety attack. I don't like feel like I'm dying,

or like irrationally think I need to like go to the hospital or my heart is gonna whatever. It's not that it's like, I just feel really overwhelmed. And then I get anxious about like, when am I gonna get to rest? And it's so it's like more natural. I feel like it's more like standard. But I shouldn't let myself get there is what I'm also saying.

I think a lot of it too is we don't have the right language when we're feeling different versions of anxiety. Like you're probably just feeling overwhelmed, but you might have some similar emotional experiences like you did when you were having true anxiety, that's just translating, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're anxious. And I think that's so much of like what,

when we label anxiety over everything, then everyone says they're anxious. And I think that's so much of like what, when we label anxiety over everything, then everyone says they're anxious. When in reality, like maybe you're not, maybe you're just exhausted. Maybe you're overwhelmed, maybe you're stressed, maybe you're depressed. Like it could be so many different things other than anxiety, but anxiety is just a word

that we use in our daily lives. That's so true. You have like stress, like even like the fear of God or like reverence, like, you know, like there's, I feel like there's certain things that are like close in proximity, but like, yeah, it is ultimately like what you decide to do with that.

Like does it push you away? Does it bring you closer? That's good. Like nervousness, stress, anxiety, fear. Man, we actually have like hit so many of these questions without reading them, but one thing I did wanna talk about kind of circling back is how do you work through anxiety as a couple and help each other lean on God?

We can talk about our experience like we kind of already mentioned. I mean, it is hard to work through anxiety as a couple because like I said, anxiety can kind of breed anxiety. Like when we both feel anxious, it can like overwhelm both of us because then we like can convince ourselves something's true that's not, you know? And I think that's the thing with anxiety, that it will lie to you and it will create a false reality that you begin to think is real. And then that makes you super anxious. And so if a kid's sick, it's all of a

sudden like, oh my gosh, do we take them to the hospital, something's wrong, blah, blah, blah. Like we go to like way extreme instead of just being like, they're okay, get them Tylenol, cool them down. Like I feel like we have to be aware of our anxiety and when we're having it,

so that one of us can speak truth in the moment and like bring us back to a good place. Because in a dynamic where one charles and one doesn't, the other one's able to speak more truth and open our level headed. And there have been times in our life where we've been through that and that's been awesome. But there's just been very real times when you're parenting together and going through life together and throwing the same life craziness that you're going to have the same reaction.

And in those moments, one thing that's been helpful is we have reached out to outside people. He has a very strong friend group with guys and like I do with the girls and Freddie's in that group. And like super grateful for that. But also we do go to a counselor too. Like we call Ms. Tara and walk through it with her. And like we get someone outside of the situation to a counselor too. Like we call Ms. Tara and walk through it with her and like we get someone outside of the situation

to speak into it. And of course, God too, and prayer and all that absolutely has a part of it for sure. But I feel like a lot of it is getting someone else's perspective to speak truth into it. But do you see a lot of couples that go through anxiety together? Like have you talked to people like that?

Yeah. that go through anxiety together? Like have you talked to people like that? Y'all I know I cannot be the only one who struggles with my sleep schedule. It can be so hard to find the perfect sleeping temp that keeps me, you know, not waking up shivering or covered in sweat and not finding that balance can have a huge impact on sleep quality and overall health.

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and not knowing how to communicate it, not knowing how to talk about it, and then feeling trapped in it. I haven't seen a lot of couples, because that's kind of, I see more of the individuals in counseling. But I mean, to your point, it's hard when you both have the same experience,

because then you can feed it. I think the best thing that I've seen in the counseling setting, but also personal life, is like learning to take time apart from it, to where you're not feeding it, even though you both know you're on the same playing field. Like you're both feeling the same thing, but maybe taking a step back to like not talk about it in a sense where you're building on the anxiety. Like you can be practical and you can resolve the issue at hand, but you're not

overly investing more time into it than it's needed. No, I think that's good, because I think for us, typically with other topics of anxiety, we can help each other because we're not feeling it. But because we both experience a traumatic situation with our daughter being sick, when our kids get sick, we both experience the same trauma response of being anxious about it.

And because what Honey went through was a crazy worst case scenario moment where it's like, that's why we jumped to the worst case scenario. She can have the flu, but it's like, is it just the flu? Like, you know, it's like, what if we're missing something? Should we, you know, it's all that where we feed on that. But we have to take time to zoom out and be like,

this is what it is, and speak truth to it. Which I think a lot of anxiety is that, like speaking truth to it. It's saying like, cause someone said, how do you get out of the, not the spiral, but how do you calm yourself down? You know, whenever you have an anxiety attack, like you have to speak truth.

Like one time I remember, this was kind of a like funny, not funny, but like ironic situation because we were having that L.O. sister retreat and this girl was having anxiety attack. And they like come to me and they say, these girls have an anxiety attack. I'm like, oh no. And they're like, no, like what do we do?

Like you're in charge. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like I'm in charge of this retreat and responsible for all these girls. And there's a girl having anxiety attack. And like, I struggle with anxiety. Like I don't know what I'm gonna do, you know? This is years ago. And so I go up to her and this is our first time to like host a retreat too. Like now we don't know what I'm gonna do, you know? This is years ago. And so I go up to her,

this is our first time to host a retreat too. Like now we've done this a lot, but this is my first time. So I was nervous, like how I was gonna respond. And so I'm talking to her and she's so anxious. She's like, I need to go to the hospital. And it is so sad because it looked just like me. Like she was saying everything like I used to say.

And I'm like, have you eaten anything? And she's like, no. And she's like, I actually just drank a cold say. And I'm like, have you eaten anything? And she's like, no. And she's like, I actually just drank a cold brew. And I was like, okay. I was like, well, I really think you haven't eaten anything all day. You traveled. You just drank a cold brew,

which has more caffeine than typical caffeine. I think that's making your body feel anxious and you're in a new place. And she's like, no, no, no, I can't breathe. I can't breathe, I can't breathe. And I was like, well, you can breathe because you're talking right now. I can tell you're breathing. But I know I used to do the same thing. You think you can't breathe, I can't breathe, I can't breathe. I was like, well, I was like, you can't breathe because you're talking right now. I can tell you're breathing,

but I know I used to do the same thing. You think you can't, your mind's convincing you of something that's not true. I was like, I know you can't, I know I really can't. Well, that was during COVID years, and so we all had those oxygen things, you can literally see.

So I was like, hey, I'm gonna run down to my house, this is really close, I'm gonna go get my oxygen thing, I'm gonna put it on you, that way we can see. So the girls all set with her, we went to my house, cause it was really close. I was like, I'm gonna go get my oxygen thing and put it on you, that way we can see. So the girls all sat with her, we went to my house, got the thing, and I put it on her and her oxygen was like 99, you know? I was like, okay, see that you can breathe.

And she like sat there and like watched it and it calmed her so much. And I think it was just a really cool visual. Like when she saw truth, it was like, okay, I actually can breathe. Like I actually am okay, you know? And I think sometimes it takes that within an anxiety attack to like bring yourself to truth.

And I have to tell myself that too, like I can breathe. I'm okay. God is with me. Whatever I think is gonna happen, even if, and this is what my counselor tells me. She goes, okay, even if it does happen, are you okay? Yes. Why are you okay?

Because God's got you. And even if you're not okay, where's eternity in heaven? Like you have to get to like the root and then be like, even if the worst thing happens, I'm okay, you know? I do that with my clients all the time. You play along with the what if. Okay, so like what if that does happen?

What's the worst case? What's the worst case? What's the worst situation that you could possibly imagine? And you kind of have to play that out to go, it's really not as scary. And then there is actually no good in playing out that worst case scenario in an anxiety attack because even if that worst case does happen, the preparation you feel like you're doing

doesn't actually do you any good. It doesn't, you're not gonna be better off if that does actually happen by thinking it's gonna happen and preparing yourself. I remember when I was going through anxiety about dating because I was a new, I had been following the Lord for a while, but this was my first relationship and it was with Parker of dating someone that was a genuine believer.

And so I had so much anxiety and it was with Parker, of dating someone that was a genuine believer. And so I had so much anxiety and it was mainly touched by shame and guilt of my past. But I was talking to someone about it and she had me read Psalm 23 and it's like, I know that Psalm. So I really wasn't like thinking that much into it. But then when I got to the very end, it says, surely your goodness and mercy will follow me

all the days of my life. It like clicked for me in that moment of like, the Lord is my shepherd, I'm following him. And what that means is no matter what I go through, like his goodness and his mercy follow me. So it was just like this piece of, no matter what happens in my dating relationship, no matter what happens in my life,

like that's what I go back to is like, surely your goodness and mercy will follow me It's just the same thing you were saying. I love that I I love listening to like memoirs and audiobooks But one of the reasons I love to listen to them because I listen to pretty like extreme stories like the one I'm listening to right now is called the happiest man on earth and It's a story about a man who survived like the worst concentration camps. And it's just unbelievable. But it's titled, The Happiest Man on Earth.

And you're like, Oja, I'm in the depth of the worst part right now, and I'm like, how is this gonna, how is he going to become the happiest man on Earth? Because this is truly the worst of the worst. But he has all these inspirational things along the way that you're like, whoa, how did you find joy in that? But he did, and he's like, life is totally what you perceive it, how you receive it and perceive it to be.

And it's just so powerful. But one of the reasons I love listening to books like this is because it's not that it turns at the end of these stories where it's like, oh, wow, and then everything got better and he got abundantly more. Like, no, he lost his parents, he lost his family. The bad thing happened, but he made it out. He had a completely different perspective on life.

God had him in whatever way that looks like for goodness and mercy to follow. Redemption somehow happens. And at the end of the day, this man has passed away now because everyone does. And where's the hope to come? Heaven, you know? So it's like, when you really work it out

in the nitty gritty, you don't even find your peace at the end of the story. You find your peace at the end of life, in the eternity to come. And so I think that's the thing when we are walking through what we walked through. Honey, that brought forth so much anxiety. I had to wrestle it with God. I remember like trying to go through the counseling

moment like, if the worst thing happens, is it okay? And I was like, no, it's not okay. It's not okay if the worst thing happens. Like, I will not be okay. Like, just being like so mad about it and frustrated and anxious and like, I can't handle it. And then realizing I gotta work that out with God. This is something that I have to surrender to God and know like, honey is God's child first. You know, like He created her. He knitted her together in my womb.

She is His. And He has blessed me beyond measure to be her mom. You know, and like, I'm gonna pray for her. I'm gonna believe with her. I'm gonna be there every her mom, you know? And like, I'm gonna pray for her, I'm gonna believe with her, I'm gonna be there every single waking second of her life and like loving her and supporting her and cheering her on. But like I had to, I had to get with the Lord on what that meant to parent her

and like how to combat my anxieties in stewarding life. And I feel like, I feel like you don't have to go through an extreme situation in parenthood to have the million anxieties that come with the fact that your heart is outside of your body, you know? And like, you're just gonna be anxious about that. What are they doing?

Are they okay? Did they breathe weird? Did they cough weird? Is everything, am I missing something? And that, to me, that started like when they're in the womb. Like, is everything okay? I'm pretty sure. Why did I feel this?

Well, like you already get those anxieties because it's not bad. It's natural because you love so much. Like you love that person so much. And somebody asked about mom anxiety. That's a common question that I get. And so I wanted to speak to that too, because I think sometimes you go through situations

where it's like deep and you gotta like really wrestle with it and we have so many friends who've gone through truly having sick children and losing children, and seeing that's been devastating. And then we've had moms who've had very healthy kids and healthy lives, but really struck with anxiety. And so I feel like regardless of your circumstance, you gotta get a rain on it.

Yeah, absolutely. This episode is brought to you by Samsung Galaxy. Ever captured a great night video But regardless of your circumstance, you gotta get a rain on it. Yeah, absolutely. distractions. And that's not all. New Galaxy AI features like NowBrief will give you personalized insights based on your day schedule so that you're prepared no matter what. Pre-order the Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra now at Samsung.com. One thing I think we should talk about because we've talked about scripture so much and someone said any tips for believing the scripture about anxiety? I know about the scriptures, but I struggled to believe it for myself. We brought up scripture a lot,

and I will say this is a hard one, because I remember when people used to throw scripture at me, like when I was having anxiety attacks, and I'd be like, no, not helping. Not helping. Not right now, like, because I know it, okay? Like, I know I should believe that, like right now I'm just like struggling, you know?

But I think what clicked for me and when scripture resonated with me is whenever I understood it as a bigger picture than just like, oh, you know, Philippians like for there to be, it can't just be like one scripture that you like pull out and you're like, okay, I'm gonna attach this to the way I feel

and hope it makes me feel better. So much bigger than that. Like it is a, like I have to realize my anxiety is not gonna be like cured or healed by a scripture. Like it is healed by my relationship with the all powerful sovereign God who is my father and like my identity as a child of his. And it's so cool,

cause like remember that time we were in the golf cart with Honey and she kept saying like, daddy's got me, daddy's got me. And I was like, that is a picture of clinging to your dad for comfort and support and really working through not being anxious through a scary situation. And when you understand, OK, he's my father, so he's got me, so I don't have to be afraid, and wrestle that out, then all of a sudden,

the scriptures mean something to you because then those are words from your Father. So it's like, this isn't just like a random scripture I'm just trying to attach to my life. It's like, okay, no, the Word says, like, I don't have to fear for God, you are with me. And because I know who you are, that changes everything about my current situation.

And so I'm actually no longer afraid because what can man do to me if you're on my side and if you've promised me heaven and hope and eternity and you have that for my family and you have peace and like that I don't have to be afraid. And so it's more than just like putting a bandaid on it. It's like really healing your heart and understanding what that power really means.

I think in a way, and this, hopefully this does not get like misconstrued, I feel like in a way, scriptures, like one off like a hundred verses on anxiety. I feel like that's kind of a bandaid. Absolutely. But I feel like actually reading the Bible is healing. Absolutely.

I feel like, yeah, Philippians 4.13, I can do all things to Christ, whose strength is me. Like that's great, but like maybe you should read the whole book of Philippians. Yeah. It's like with this book that I'm reading, I can't quote one thing the happiest man on earth has said.

I can't tell you, and he said this, and it changed my whole perspective. His life has changed my perspective. So it's like, you can't just say, okay, this verse, and not know any context. I mean, you can, because it's scripted, I don't even lie, but it's like, but when you know the story, it's like, if you read Moses,

like that's an amazing thing for overcoming anxiety. There's not like, it doesn't say like anxiety, so you're not gonna like pulled out of a hundred scriptures with anxiety. But if you read that, that's a man overcoming anxiety, realizing that the Lord is with him, that the great I am is, and then he does something so much greater than what he was capable of. Well, I'm saying that, yeah, like not that the Lord is with him, that the great I am is, and then he does something

so much greater than what he was capable of. Well, I'm saying, yeah, not that this is a bad thing, but it's like, if on your mirror in the morning, you're brushing teeth, and it's like two verses to help you with anxiety, it's like, that's great. But like, actually get in the Word, actually read the story, actually see how people truly did wrestle with things that were scary

and anxious and frightening, but how God brought them out. Not don't just read Jeremiah 29 and 11, like, friend of the plan is a half of you, like, which is great, but read the whole book of Jeremiah and see what made him get up to that point. I think about Joshua, so many times people quote Joshua, like, be strong and courageous, do not be terrified,

like for the Lord your God is with you. But it's like, when you read Joshua, that is Joshua one. And that is God talking to Joshua, who's like taking on the huge mantle, like Moses. Post-Promised land. Post-Promised land, like this is crazy. And he's like, you're the guy, like you would be terrified. And he's like, hey, don't be scared.

Like be strong, courageous, like I got you. Meditate on the word, you know, like I got you. I'm gonna be with you. And then he goes on and defeats like 31 kings, all this crazy stuff. And like, you go all the way back and God promised him, like, I have got you, I'm gonna be with you. Like, that's the power of reading scripture

and understanding like that God is your God. So cool. I have so many thoughts, but I'll say too, I love what you said because I think that's so accurate. Like, if you think about people in the Bible, they can quote scripture, but it's not because they're like just Googling a piece of scripture.

It's like they know the story, they know the beginning, the middle, the end of what they're memorizing, right? So it's like, when I think about that, I'm like, man, their anxiety, if we're gonna say that like people in the Bible had anxiety, their anxiety must have been so much more manageable because they knew at the end of the day,

God is their father. God is gonna provide for them versus us just having to Google something and then reading it and having to believe it over an anxious moment. It's like they had the foreknowledge to be prepared for these moments where we just try to put the bandaid over it in the moment

and we're like, oh, it's not working. The Bible must not work. But it's like, no, the purpose bandaid over it in the moment. And we're like, oh, it's not working. The Bible must not work. But it's like, no, that's the purpose isn't to, in the moment of an anxiety attack, go read a scripture and it calms you down like that. Like there's so many things you should be doing in preparation for your anxiety. And I feel like one thing that we learn in grad school

is like the hierarchy of needs. And I think about even with anxiety, if you try to put a band-aid of scripture over your anxiety, like you're gonna be confused as to why it's not working. But it's like, you have needs before that that need to be met of like, physically you might need to eat.

You might need to like focus on your breathing so that you can feel like you're not suffocating and dying before you go to read that scripture to try to let it help you. So it's just, in that moment, you're not using common sense but letting someone else speak that common sense over you. That helps so much. When I wrote Live Fearless, there's a chapter called

Being a Friend to Fear, and it's like having that for the person going through it, because sometimes you can't think rationally when you're in the moment. Like you need, which is what was so helpful when we first got married, you can see it and speak the truth. You'd be like, hey, go put your hands under warm water because that always helped me.

You would be like, hey. Which I still help you. No, you still help me so much, but I just mean, I don't struggle with that as much as I used to. So not on you, I just don't really struggle with that. But you would tell me to do things or speak the scripture over me, which was so helpful as opposed to me having to muster up strength

in that moment. But I think too, like to say, I love how you said like, it's not just a Google search, you know, people back in the day must've been so much more manageable. And I think it's so interesting cause you might say, oh, well, yeah, they had a fire in a cloud by day. And then like they had the sun and moon stood still. Like God was like on their side.

But then like you read the word and it's like, but they dreamed of living in our day when the spirit of God was inside of them, when it wasn't just outside and a fire and a cloud. And it wasn't just, you know, the sun, it was like, no, that what's happening there is in you. Like, and that's what Jesus says, like, when I leave my spirits will come

and then the spirit falls on the people and we get to be badgers in the Holy spirit. So it's like, no, we actually have like more power because that power of God that they followed is living inside of us. And so that's when it's like activate. You're like, hold on a second. I haven't been given a spirit of fear.

I have been given a spirit of God and want to power love and a sound mind. And it's like, that's like, okay, that's a scripture that I read, but like, I understand what that means. Spirit of God is living inside of me. Like that's wild. And so I think about that sometimes,

because I look back, that's how I used to think, like, oh, what would have been so much easier if like God, you were just like literally showing up. If you sent an angel, it would be totally cool. I would be so fine right now. And I'm like, okay, but I have the Spirit of God in me. You know? Yeah, that's good. It's good.

It's good. ["I'm Not Gonna Give You Up"]