WHOA That's Good Podcast - I Never Wanted This to Be My Story, But I Would Do It All Again! | Sadie Rob Huff & Annie F. Downs
Episode Date: November 27, 2024Annie F. Downs would be the first one to tell you she never wanted a ministry to singles — as a single woman — to be her story. But now, doing work that means something to so many, and following G...od's leading, Annie says she wouldn't change a thing if she was given the chance to do it over again. Annie tells Sadie she's had to learn how to give from a place of lack and why that's transformed how she approaches everything. Her latest initiative is a new Advent series, "Stay Tuned" — for anyone who has already been in a waiting season and now we're entering Advent - a season of expectant hope and waiting. Sadie asks Annie how she'd encourage other singles at this time of year (and in general), and Annie's advice for married people when it comes to their single friends. Find out more about the "Stay Tuned" Advent series: https://www.anniefdowns.com/advent/ This Episode of WHOA That's Good is Sponsored By: https://everylife.com — Get 10% off your first order when you use promo code WHOA at checkout! https://drinkag1.com/whoa — Get a free gift with your first subscription plus the Welcome Kit with Vitamin D3+K2 https://www.trymiracle.com/whoa — Get 40% off + 3 FREE towels with code WHOA at checkout! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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What's up, friends? If you haven't heard my new book, The Next Step, it's a 50 devotional book,
10 weeks of just getting into the Word, worshiping, asking good questions to journal and reflect on.
I know you guys are going to love it, and I really hope that it helps you form the habit of just
going to encounter the Lord every single day with what your next step should be.
So go check out The Next Step anywhere books are sold.
What's up everybody? Happy Wednesday.
I hope you're having a great week, but per usual, it is about to get literally so much
better because we have one of our favorite friends back on the podcast.
And you just said this because also on your podcast, but I think this is true about my
podcast.
You're one of our biggest recurring guests.
I think we've only had you and Dr. Amen
and maybe one other this many times.
So Annie Downs, welcome back to the podcast.
What an honor.
Thanks for having me, Sadie.
I'm so glad to get to talk to you.
This is like, we were praying beforehand
and you said, thank you God that this is what we get to do.
Like I'm so, I just love getting to talk to friends
for part of how I get to be on the earth and serving God.
So what a gift.
Isn't that just a gift?
It is something I'm so grateful for.
And whenever my team, they were like,
okay, this is in the middle of your book press day,
but Annie is available if you want to interview her.
I'm like, are you kidding me?
Yes, I want to interview her.
And I just started thinking, I was like,
if I said no to this, because I'm so busy,
every single person who listens to the World That's Good
podcast would be so mad at me.
If I said no to having you on the podcast.
So I was like, yes, absolutely.
We're squeezing it in and whatever time we have.
So I'm just thankful to have a conversation with you.
I have to give you a massive shout out though.
And I have to literally read this shout out
cause I'm like adjusting my eyes to make sure a massive shout out though. And I have to literally read the shout out because I'm like adjusting my eyes
to make sure I'm reading this right.
This is your milestone year,
which means you've had a hundred million downloads
of That Sounds Fun podcast.
What?
10 million downloads of the Let's Read the Gospels podcast
and more than 1 million books sold.
That's my friends, Annie F. Downs.
And the coolest thing though is like, Annie,
you have used what the Lord has given you to glorify Him
and to be a sister and a friend
to every single person who reads your books,
who listens to your podcast.
I am one of those people who have been blessed by that.
But to see just the vast reach you have had
truly is the coolest thing ever.
So a huge congratulations.
Yeah, thanks. Isn't that wild?
It's such a gift when all that ended up falling in the same year.
And you know this from podcasting.
Podcasting is having its best year.
I mean, there's a lot of new shows.
There's a lot going on.
And so we're also maneuvering.
How do we continue to lead
in content, not a number, I'm not on a chart anywhere,
but how do we continue to be leaders in the space
when it is changing so rapidly?
And so those kinds of moments felt like God being like,
you're all right, you're all right,
you're in the right spot.
I mean, that's what the reminder was.
And you're right, I mean, I don't deserve any of that.
You know, it takes a whole team to get a book in any hands,
but it is a good reminder that each of those numbers
is an actual human.
An actual human that God knows so deeply
and knows when they cry and knows what they're hurting about
and knows their greatest joys.
And the idea that He would trust me
when I know my sin patterns,
I mean, I haven't missed a single sin I've ever committed.
I've been in full attendance for all of them.
And so I think, man, I can't imagine
that He has decided to use my life
when I know myself as well as I do.
But I'm really grateful and I hope I get to keep doing it.
My goal is to be 100.
I loved going from nine to 10, going to two digits,
and my next chance to do that is 99 to 100.
And so I've got, you know, I'm on the,
I'm still in the first half.
I haven't even halftime yet.
And so I'm really grateful.
Andi, that's so good.
And that's so, I love that you said it.
I'm not even at halftime yet.
I just think it's so special when you hear someone
who has had so much accomplishment say like,
this isn't even it.
Like I haven't even, no, that's amazing.
But like God has so much more.
And I think so many people fall in this trap
of like the best days are behind them,
but that is not true, man.
God has something in every stage of your life.
And shout out to the golden bachelor for showing that,
that there's always hope.
There is always hope. And there's always hope. There is always hope
and there's always something good around the corner
if you keep your hope alive.
That's it.
I mean, Sadie, I just had a friend go through a breakup
and one of the things that she just wept over is,
will I ever get to love again?
And there is this mindset for a lot of us,
married, single, moms, non-moms,
there's this mindset of,
has the best thing
that's ever gonna happen to me already happened to me?
And that's just not true.
That's not the gospel.
That's not what scripture outlines for us.
In fact, if you wanna go to Revelation,
it actually gets way better than what we've experienced.
But even here on earth, your best days are not behind you.
And so we get to keep going,
believing that the best days are still coming. Yeah, it's great. I remember in high school, whenever high school was really hard, thinking like,
oh no, people sometimes say this is the best time of their life and this is terrible.
If this is it for me, then this is going to be a not a fun run.
And then being on Dancing with the Stars, which felt like such a mountain,
but being like, that wasn't it. You know what I mean?
Like that was great, but there's more to come.
Like, I mean, it's just so cool
when you keep that perspective in life.
I love, I'm looking forward to a hundred.
My grandma is the same way.
She's like, oh, I just want to be a hundred.
And what I think everyone in your family lives forever.
I think y'all got like a little,
like some sort of fountain you're drinking from
that just keeps everybody going.
You know what the thing is though,
this is actually, so did you see that Netflix documentary,
The Blue Zone?
Yes, I loved it.
That was fascinating.
So my great grandmother, you know, she's 92,
she might be 93, but regardless,
and I feel like at that point every year counts.
Like I need to say 93 if it's 93,
because that's so impressive.
But what's amazing is like she has this crew of best friends. Like it's a big crew too. Like her crew is like bigger than my best friend crew, which is so impressive. But what's amazing is like she has this crew of best friends.
Like it's a big crew too.
Like her crew is like bigger than my best friend crew,
which is quite impressive.
But her community is so strong.
And there's several 92, 90 year olds in her friend group.
And I was like, you know,
they really should have done a blue zone
of this friend group because, and she will say it,
it's her community that's kept her going.
It's our community that's kept her alive.
This past year, I went over to her house on her birthday.
And Honey wrote her a little note.
And we were like, happy birthday, Mama.
And while I was there, probably three, four people stopped by.
And also, while I was there, I said, hey,
did you get my FaceTime message?
Because you know now, if they don't answer,
you can send them a video.
And it was my first time to do that.
And I wasn't sure if she would have known how to do that she goes I did see something but I don't I
don't know if I watched it and she starts scrolling through her notifications and I'm thinking oh you
you've got to be in like last week about how long she was scrolling I'm thinking you passed it
sure enough there she gets on it and I go Memo how many texts do you have today and it was just
amazing because she had so many birthday texts,
so many birthday calls, four people stopped by while I was there.
And I said, Memo, it's really amazing to see how many people have stopped by,
how many people have texted you.
And she said, well, honey, you don't get to my age without this.
And I just thought, man, that is so beautiful contributing her long life
and her age to the people who she's surrounded by in her community.
So girl, I'm okay. Is she to mama's mom to mama's mom? Got it. Yep. So I'm cheering you on to 100
Annie and I hope I'm there to celebrate this birthday party. 100% you're gonna be there. I hope
that that sounds fun is still a podcast. Live. We'll be trying. It will be epic. But yeah, I want to ask you, because I know you,
but I don't even know that I know the answer
to this question.
How did all of this start for you?
Right, so I used to teach elementary school.
That's what I actually studied at the University of Georgia,
go dogs, is I studied elementary school
and I taught for five years.
But that's actually a really special part of the story
because what that means is for 180 days, five years in a row,
I had to teach and entertain 30 fourth and fifth graders.
And it gave me my 10,000 hours
of how do you actually teach people something
that they don't forget?
And so I say a lot to people,
I think we all pretty much have one calling.
It just come in each of each person's is different.
But my calling has just had multiple different expressions.
I'm doing the same thing now that I did when I taught school.
It's just the content is different.
I totally agree. That's great.
It's so good.
Cause then you go like, wait,
what are the things I've always really loved?
Well, I've always really loved talking and teaching.
Then you go, oh, God's always had this as part of my life.
And so that's it really started with teaching school.
And then while I was teaching school, I was leading, particularly the last two years,
I was leading a high school small group of girls.
And at the end, I was writing them lessons every week.
At the end of that semester, one of the girls asked me,
will you print one more of these studies that we've done
and staple it like a book so I can give it to a friend?
And I was like, like a book.
Wow.
And that is seriously how this whole thing started.
And so I just started pursuing like,
what does it look like to write a book
and to move into the space?
And then the podcast came around
because another author asked me to interview them.
And I was like, I mean, I will,
but I have like Twitter and a blog.
Where are you gonna release it somewhere?
And his PR person said,
have you ever thought about starting a podcast
and hand to Heaven's Sadie?
I said, that sounds fun.
No way.
I was like, that sounds fun.
I was like, it's just like, well, that's good.
You're like, oh, I say that anyway.
I'll just stick with it.
Yours has served you a little better
because that sounds fun,
makes it hard to do like spiritual attack episodes
of the podcast, but we have to, right?
Like we gotta talk about grief and hard stuff.
It's like, that sounds fun.
Watch out for the devil.
You know, like it doesn't go quite as easy as,
well, that's good.
But that's really where it started.
And it matters to me because the,
our friends who are listening to this,
we are with them in a very intimate way.
I listen to podcasts when I get ready in the morning.
So I have no makeup on and barely any clothes on, right?
So I'm listening to you in a way that I,
you wouldn't actually get to see me.
Or I'm working out or I'm in my car
or I'm walking through the grocery
store with these with my AirPods in and are on the subway in New York and no one else
knows what I'm talking to but what I'm listening to but these friends listening have let us
into their ears and into their head.
And it's just the it's the most beautiful medium.
I just think it is so fun to do.
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I agree. It is like very profound. I think that's been one of my favorite things of podcasting
is it's so used to whenever people would come up to me,
they were like, oh, are you on Duck Dynasty?
Or are you from Dancing with the Stars?
Or I follow you on Instagram.
And it would be like a quick selfie and goodbye,
which is fine and great.
But now it's just been so powerful,
because when people come up to me, it's like,
I listened to your podcast.
And in this episode, the Lord met me in this place.
Or that person said this,
and it changed everything.
And this is the reason why I pursued that.
And you're like, whoa.
It kind of makes you make sure to check your heart,
that you go into every conversation.
That's why we prayed before we did your podcast,
and we turned around and did my podcast.
I had to pray before, because it's not even
like a ritual of I have to pray before.
It's like, I just wanna bless every one
of these conversations before knowing the weight
that they carry, that like people are praying prayers
right now that God's even maybe gonna answer
through this podcast, you know?
Like God's speaking to them so intentionally
through the things that they've been asking Him for.
You know, like that's one of the coolest thing.
They're like, I was praying about that.
And then that was the subject or you said this.
And it's so cool because again, like I'm a podcast fan.
So I get that through the podcast I'm listening to.
So I understand what they're saying
when they're telling me that.
Cause I'm like, I'm the same exact way.
I remember when I started talking to Lisa Harper,
I'm like, sorry, can I just tell you
all the different podcasts that you've said
that have like blessed me and helped me and taught me.
And it's just so cool to get to have that kind of relationship
with people through these really intimate and intentional
conversations.
And that sounds fun.
You've done a great job of navigating
how fun the podcast is with the spiritual depth.
But I think that's just because it's who you are.
And I would just give that advice
to people who are wanting to write a book or start a podcast.
I think a lot of people want to write a book or start a podcast for the sake of writing a book or
starting a podcast. But I think the ones that last so long, like yours has lasted so long,
over 10 years. How long have you done your podcast?
10. This is the 10th year. That's exactly right.
10 years of all of these things. The reason why it's lasted and all the things is because
it's true to who you are. It's overflow of who you are.
It's what God's always had on your life to do.
And so I think that like sometimes,
if you feel like you're striving to do something,
it's just might not be the right time to do it.
I think when it's the right time,
it will come in that moment of that sounds fun.
Oh, wow, that sounds fun is a great podcast.
For me, it was the same.
I said a good piece of advice someone gave me. My mom said, whoa, that's good. And I went, whoa, that's a great podcast. For me, it was the same. I said a good piece of advice someone gave me.
My mom said, whoa, that's good.
And I went, whoa, that's a good idea for a podcast.
I feel like it's kind of like the light bulb moment
and the Lord leading in that way.
You've done so many things though.
And I love how you said it, you simplified it to,
yes, I've done all these things, but it's always who I've been.
It's what I did when I taught elementary school.
It's what I did when I did this Bible study with these girls.
And now you've stepped into doing an Advent study,
which we are gonna talk all about.
I have it right here, stay tuned.
For those, when this comes out,
this might already be sold out,
but you can do the, is it the digital or the audio copy?
Yeah, there's digital version.
So it's an audio podcast.
So there's every day of Advent, every weekday,
we have an audio devotional, a video devotional,
and there's a guidebook that goes with it.
You can either get the PDF or a printed version.
I love it, which again, you are good at all of those versions
of things, reading it, listening to all the things,
so it makes so much sense.
For those who have never done an Advent study,
what is an Advent study?
What is Advent?
Tell our listeners.
So I think that's what you're gonna love
about where we're gonna go with this, Sadie,
is so Advent is the season that leads up to Christmas.
It is the season of anticipation.
Usually it is four weeks this year
because Thanksgiving is so late
and because of how the calendar worked out
and where Christmas sits.
It's usually, I think it's usually the four Sundays
before Christmas and where Christmas sits, that means it, I think it's usually the four Sundays before Christmas.
And where Christmas sits, that means it's only three weeks this year.
So it's December 1 until December 24.
And December 1 is a Sunday.
So that's when it starts.
And really what happens every year, this is when you see people do Advent calendars.
This is when you see people like counting down until Christmas.
It is one way to count down until Christmas.
The other thing people talk about a lot
are the 12 days of Christmas.
And technically that starts on Christmas day.
That starts on Christmas tide, which is the next season.
And it goes from Christmas day until Epiphany,
which is January 6th.
But Advent is the longer season of waiting
that leads up to Christmas.
I grew up in a Methodist church.
And so I grew up in a Methodist church, and so I
grew up knowing about Lent and Advent because a different family would go light the candle
on Sunday. The pastors and preachers were wearing a different color robe, and it was
a countdown. But the thing that has been true for me my whole life is Advent is the season
where they really teach you get excited about waiting.
Like, get excited that Jesus is coming. Like, this is anticipation. And I'm 44 and I'm not
married yet. And every year at Advent, Sadie, it comes around and I go like, I don't want
to wait any. Did y'all miss the other 330 days that I'm waiting? Because I'm waiting.
And honestly, everyone is. Married people are waiting, single people are waiting,
but it has felt pretty profound to me
to try to muster up the enjoyment of Advent
and the enjoyment of anticipation and waiting
in the midst of a life where I feel like
I've been waiting for a long time.
Dang, Fran, that's so, that is like so true.
And honestly, I'm like so thankful that you're saying that
because it's so real.
People are like, let's get excited about wedding
and in the holiday season, it's like,
woo, fun, all the things.
But it's like, hey, actually, like this is really hard.
And like, there's a lot of people walking through stuff,
like you mentioned in your singleness,
where you're truly desiring something that isn't here yet.
And that, there is nothing fun about that.
Like, no, I mean, think about the people who said last year at Christmas,
by next year, I bet we'll have a baby.
By next year, I bet I will have met someone.
By next year, I bet we can afford that new car.
And so what happens is the holidays get here again.
And there is this like stamp on the calendar of you said to yourself,
I bet God will give me the thing I want by next year
and here it is and you don't have the thing you want.
And it can get really complicated with God.
It's messy.
I love how you said this Advent study
is for professional waiters.
So this, what you wrote about is from that place
in your heart where you're like, it's hard stuff.
It's like, we're not acting like the waiting
is fun all the time.
It's not.
I want to-
Because I still want to participate in Advent.
Like I want to learn one of the reasons I wrote,
and we called it Stay Tuned for the exact,
it's Stay Tuned, an Advent series for those already waiting
because Sadie, I do want us to believe
that the best is coming.
It's great.
And that doesn't mean
you're going to get everything you want.
Nobody gets everything they want.
Look at the end of Hebrews 12 where they're like,
and all of them died not seeing what they wanted to see.
Like there's not this promise in the Bible
that we all get what we want
if we serve God with enough option.
And so the idea of stay tuned is like,
okay, I bet this is painful.
In fact, I know it is.
There's parts of this that are painful.
Also, what if we stay tuned to see what God might do? And so really this particular study was about
me when I wrote it in August, it was about me facing head on with, I want to participate in
a season that means a lot to me, means a lot to my Christian brothers and sisters,
it means a lot to our global church,
and it is an important season of reflection with Christ.
And I am not thrilled to be here again
in the way that it is and to still be waiting.
And so where those two collide
is what I'm trying to do this year in Advent.
So I don't have to fake it like I'm fine.
But I also don't have to just throw away Advent
because I'm unwilling to see the beauty in the season.
Dang, that is so good because that's something
that a lot of people, I feel like,
aren't willing to live in that tension.
But that's so true because I feel like we do kind of have
this rebellious generation in a sense.
And it's not necessarily rebellious in all the bad ways,
but rebellious and it's like, OK, well, I'm mad, so I'm just not gonna do
any of that fun stuff, and I just won't do that,
and I just own where I'm at.
But it's like a sass to it, but it's like,
there's not a joy in it, you know?
That's it, it's a sass with an undercurrent of hurt
instead of an undercurrent of funny or joy.
Yeah, and it's like, you make it sound kind of funny,
but it's not, it's like, there's pain there,
there's hurt there, and that's okay to acknowledge, but there's also hope.
And let's actually let's not fake it, but let's say why
and why it's very true that we can't have hope.
Man, Hebrews 12, I laugh when you said that because I remember
reading that for the first time.
And I'm such like I mean, I'm a little bit dramatic in the way
that I talk and in the way that I read.
And so I read it and being like, what all of these people who like are the hall of faith
people who did all the things that these stories are about
died without receiving their promise?
Literally.
But then it goes on to say some good stuff.
I see you have your Bible, please read it for us.
Yeah, I just got to read it.
And it's the very end of Hebrews 11 verse 39.
These were all commended for their faith. So for what they believed but did not see.
So God commended them that he rewards them. He esteems them for their faith.
Yet none of them received what had been promised. None of them received.
And then it says God had planned something better for us.
That's it. So that only together with us would they be made perfect.
So you're celebrating.
So also we want to say to people,
if you are waiting for God to do something,
keep believing he's going to do it.
Like I want when I am in the world
where I don't get married on earth,
I want to get to heaven and knock on the door and be like,
it wasn't because I didn't ask.
It's certain, listen, this is on you.
I believe, you know?
I mean, I want us to believe
because we actually get commended for our faith.
Faith without works is dead, right?
But also the way you please God is your faith, right?
That is how you please Him.
And so you're commended for your faith,
even if you don't get what was promised,
which is a complicated thing to hear.
It's a complicated thing to hear
because so many people are like hanging on to,
all your promises are yes and amen, which is true.
However, they're thinking that their promises,
sometimes people hold God to promises
that he didn't promise.
And it's like more your expectation
of what you thought God was going to give
because of what you thought that version of promise
looked like.
I don't know about you, but I'm already thinking,
I am too late.
It's starting on all the holiday gifts.
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We lead that group here called Single Purpose League and we have about 2,000 people in our
Single Purpose League and it's all single Christians, mostly women.
And I'm telling you, one of the things we hear over and over is, I thought God promised
me that.
And it is complicated because you're in a moment, you're in a relationship, you're in
an experience and you go, I heard God,
and I want to believe that I heard God.
I mean, the thing is, it just happened to me like that,
Sadie, where I said to my best friends,
my gut is telling me something, I am going to honor her.
I'm going to honor my gut and step forward.
I'm not sure this is God, but it sounds like God.
And so, will y'all walk with me as I walk toward this?
There's a chance I'm not right.
But the problem is when we think we've got a promise from God and then that thing doesn't
come through or that guy marries someone else and has kids with someone else, or the job goes to
someone else, we go, it becomes a God problem instead of a us problem. And that requires a lot
of work. And that's why you need community like your grandmother,
your great grandmother, right?
You've got to have people you know.
Hey, I thought I heard God,
and now I am really disappointed
and like a level beyond a breakup.
I'm like a devastated level
because this is a spiritual problem now,
not just a relational problem.
Man, okay, let's hang on this for a minute.
Cause I wrote this down, it's one of your pinned posts.
It was a picture of you holding something
that said, pastoring singles.
And then I read your caption.
Talk to me about, I mean, obviously, you've
shared your own story.
But why is it so important that singles are pastored?
And obviously, I know why.
Yes, but speak into that a little bit more.
Yeah, so one of the stats from Barna
is that 28% of the church is unmarried.
So that means when you're sitting on a Sunday morning,
one out of three people around you,
so there's a couple and a single person,
and a couple and a single person,
and a couple and a single person.
And that was not the case 20 years ago.
That was, the numbers have just risen
and the numbers are rising nationally in the US.
40% of Americans are unmarried today,
whether that's never married, divorced or widowed.
And that is a large amount of people.
And here's the thing, Sadie, none of our pastors,
no pastor I've talked to took a class in seminary on singleness. That was just not a
thing they were taught. And a lot of pastors, when they decided I'm called into ministry,
the next decision they made is that I need to get married because I need a wife to partner with me.
So we've got these guys and some women leading churches and they don't have the experience of being single
and they don't have the training
of how to minister to single people.
So they're doing the best they can.
This is not a pastor problem.
Our churches don't want to make singles feel unwelcome.
They want them to feel welcome,
but we're just a little bit of an alien species to them
because they haven't been single since they were 20
and they didn't get training about it.
And so what happens, Sadie, is the pastors are trying,
they're really trying, I genuinely believe that,
that the church staff wants single people to feel welcome.
Singles are getting hurt or upset or mad
that they aren't seen in their church.
And instead of stepping in to the problem
with the church staff, they leave
or they complain from the back row.
And so, I'm really passionate about helping pastors,
pastor singles well, because I'm a single person
and I'm a teaching pastor at Crosspoint Church in Nashville.
So I am kind of a bridge between these two communities.
And I'm hearing both of them saying,
there is a problem here, how can we fix it?
And I'm like, perfect, do y'all hear each other?
Are you hearing each other?
You both want to fix this, pastors want to fix this,
but so do single people, Sadie, it's as well.
And then I'll stop, but-
I know, keep going.
This is so good, Annie.
We did a survey with Single Purpose League
and we said, do you feel supported by your church?
And 65% of the singles said no or not really.
Whoa.
So that's a sad stat, but here's the fascinating one.
We also said, where do you want to meet someone?
Three of the top 10 places were in the church.
So we're like, that is so interesting.
You don't necessarily feel supported by your church,
but you wanna be there.
And you want to meet a partner there.
And so the desire is there.
They just don't feel supported yet.
So we made that resource, the pastoring singles resource
that is just free for pastors.
Cause I sat with some married pastors,
some single pastors,
and I sent it to a bunch of single friends. Beautiful.
And we went, help make this better.
And it's like maybe five pages.
And it's like, here's how to make sure your sermons
are including single people.
Here's how to help plan events.
Here's some questions you should ask.
Man, that's good.
Because there's also a deep thing, Sadie,
of like, we need our pastors and us as people
who go to church, you and I,
we really need to assess our theology of
singleness.
Do we actually think single people are equal to married people?
What do we think about a 40-year-old guy who isn't married leading in the church versus
a 40-year-old guy who is married leading in the church?
And most people don't think the same about them.
And so we need to think about our theology of singleness.
Is there actually two paths to an abundant life?
And if so, can we trust that the single leaders around us
are pursuing abundant life,
or do we think they're behind because they're not married yet?
Man, that's so crazy too,
because biblically my mind goes straight to obviously
when Paul's like, I wish that you wouldn't get married
because then you wouldn't be distracted and divide.
And actually this is, you might remember this from our wedding, I wish that you wouldn't get married because then you wouldn't be distracted and divided. And actually this is, you might remember this
from our wedding, I was so embarrassed
but because it was so funny, the timing.
But when we get down the aisle
and my grandpa Phil was about to say the prayer
and he could have gone to so many verses
that he could have said in this moment,
about love or 1 Corinthians 13 or something like that.
But no, he goes,
Brother Paul says it is best to not marry,
and least you burn with passion.
I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you just said that, right?
As we're here in front of all our friends getting married.
But I say that to say like, the Bible is actually clear on that.
He's like, single is, Paul would say better.
I mean, you're not distracted.
You're mine.
And I remember praying that before I met Christian,
I was kind of wrestling with that verse,
actually, before I married Christian.
And I was like, God, I don't want to be distracted.
Like, I don't want to be divided.
I want my heart to fully love you and serve you.
And if we get married, when we get married,
what does it look like to be married
and to fully have,
like, you have my attention?
And I just remember wrestling with that.
But so I was gonna say the theology of it.
I don't know how that's even an argument
or why we are quick to think that
other than what culture has shaped us to be.
But if you go to the word,
that's just far off from what it says.
That's so interesting.
Tell me about the league,
because is everyone invited into that? Because there are single friends listening right now going, oh my gosh, this
is the coolest conversation ever. It's very fun. Yeah. So it's called the single purpose
league at single purpose league.com. And currently as we, as we go through Advent, you can't join,
but we'll be, we'll have it open in January for people to join. So, um, but it's just
this really sweet community. I mean, like we're all going to Dollywood in a couple of weekends. Like we're just meeting up at Dollywood, a couple of
hundred of us. And it's just a fun, and you know what's ended up happening, Sadie, and
this actually happens with LO girls too, with the LO sisters is they had like, there, there
are single purpose league members getting together for friends giving. It's the best. And they're meeting up without us because a portion of the group doesn't want to get married.
They just want community.
Now, we sometimes talk about dating and we talk like this month, we're talking about money.
We have a different topic every month.
And this month we're talking about money.
And some people want to talk about how do I save up so that I can be single the rest of my life?
And some people are like, hey, I thought I'd be married by now.
Am I gonna have to buy another car?
I thought I was getting a car by now.
And so it's been a really sweet group.
Yeah, it's a really good community.
They take care of each other.
And Sadie, I'll tell you the whole truth.
You know this about me.
This is not what I wanted to do.
You know, like this isn't what I wanted to do.
But about a year and a half ago,
we did a dating series on That Sounds Fun called Summer Lovin'.
And at the beginning of it, I did an Instagram reel.
And I said, Hey, are you single?
I just wanted to make sure people that were dating knew we were doing the series.
Hey, are you single?
Can I have your email address?
I just want to tell you something.
That's what I said.
We expected and hoped for about a thousand email addresses
in that first week.
Sadie, by the end of the first week,
we had 20,000 email addresses.
Whoa.
And it was like the Lord had to like put a flag
in front of my face of like,
there are a lot of people doing work for single Christians.
But what that moment said to me was,
hey, Annie, there are 20,000 single people
who want to hear from you and want to,
and that, Sadie, there's really something profound
about doing work that matters,
even if you aren't, even if it still hurts a little bit. You know? I mean, I think of any of our friends who are wanting to have kids and are still helping babysit their nieces and nephews, or people who are really struggling financially, the pastoring resource, stay tuned, Advent series,
Single Purpose League, it is all from my lack. And it's been the kindness of God to see it matter
to so many people, but that's, it is all from a place of, God, please don't make me do this.
And He doesn't make us do anything. That's not his heart. But I still said that.
I mean, I still prayed that at some point, you know? Yeah.
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And you know, that's 1 through 3.
This is my favorite verse.
I used to write 1, 2, 3 on everything because of that verse.
Christian and I, that's like our marriage verse.
That verse has just come up so much.
And so I love that that's what this is all based in.
But speaking of how it talks about like,
this tree will prosper,
like this tree is supposed to be like green all the time
and leaves are in fruit.
And you just said like, this is coming from my lack.
Like you wrestle with that so well in the study.
And I don't want to give it all away,
but I would like for you to speak into that a little bit
because again, back to the promises,
it's like, how can that be true if I feel like I lack?
How can that be true if I don't feel prosperous?
And you speak so well to that,
even about the different trees you thought you would be
versus the one that was handed to you.
Can you share a little bit of that?
Yeah, isn't that funny to pick Psalm one
to do an Advent study?
I'm like, sorry, everybody, we're gonna spend three weeks not in the birth of Jesus necessarily. But we do have
in the guidebook, in the Stay Tuned guidebook, there is a Jesus verse every day because I
did want to, I still want us to be anticipating the birth of Christ. But yeah, verse three
of this, I'll just read Psalm 1, 1 through 3 to people real quick so it can be fresh
on their minds if that's okay.
Yeah, please do.
Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners
or sit in the seat of mockers.
And we go through what each of those are in the study and why it matters.
And sitting in the seat of mockers, dude, that messed with me for days.
But his delight is in the law of the Lord
and on His law He meditates day and night.
He is like a tree planted by streams of water
which yields its fruit in season
and whose leaf does not wither whatever He does prospers.
And that is like complicated, right?
The truth of the gospel can be really complicated
because whatever he does prospers
is not anybody's lived experience.
That's so true.
And so you go like, well, that isn't even true
of the high school football team I watched on Friday night
that we wanted to win, they lost.
And so what they did didn't prosper
in the way we understand.
But this is why stay tuned matters so much as a phrase.
I mean, I gave a key chain with stay tuned
to everyone on our staff.
I mean, I'm like vibing on this phrase
because it has impacted me so much.
If it is true that whatever we do prospers,
and we're all trees planted.
And so you're right.
I thought I'd be a wife and a mom kind of tree.
I thought that was what was going to happen.
And that has not been what's happened yet.
And so I go, okay, so what kind of tree am I?
Like, that's why there's this spoiler.
That's why there's pears everywhere.
It's because you think you're going to be one kind of fruit
and you end up being a totally different kind of fruit
and having totally different fruit yield in the right season.
But we really get to wrestle in Advent
with whatever He does prospers.
How can that be true when I'm still waiting on God?
And the spoiler is it can be true
because you don't know how the story ends.
This story isn't over yet.
Your story's not over yet.
My story's not over yet.
I mean, we cannot make any judgment decisions
about whether the Bible is true or not
while we are still breathing.
Because the story is not over.
We got to stay tuned and see what God's going to do.
Because if it is true that whatever we do prospers
and our leaves do not wither,
well, I got to stick around and see
how that's going to end up being true.
That's so good.
I'm like, yes, this is so good.
I'm personally sitting here like having my own meditation and Bible study with the Lord.
I feel like I'm listening to this podcast, not really a part of this podcast in the best
way because I'm like, that is so good.
And I feel like one thing I've heard you say so much in this episode is like, I wrestled
with God.
I had to wrestle with that.
You had to wrestle with that.
People got to learn how to wrestle with God.
You got to learn how to wrestle with that. You have to wrestle with that. People gotta learn how to wrestle with God. You got to learn how to wrestle with God.
You have to learn how to not just read a verse and go,
okay, I'm gonna try to believe that, but I don't feel it.
And actually go like, okay, I actually,
I don't know how to believe that right now.
So God help me understand how that's true.
And a lot of times it does take you to zoom way out
and go, well, it's because this story isn't over.
We're living in it.
That Jesus died, rose again, went back to heaven,
one day is coming back.
We're not there yet.
And when he does, like, there's so much greater to come.
There's eternity to come.
So like, you're living in the midst of it.
So yeah, there's a wrestle.
Yeah, there's like a lot to come
that you really do have to stand tuned for.
I can see why this word is meaning everything.
Stay tuned is gonna be like in my mind now.
And that's, it's so good.
We've got to, right?
We've got to, but you do not have to let go
of the celebrations or the grieving, right?
Because like, you know this part of my story,
but my sister and her husband had a baby
that died two years ago.
He died after two months.
And so while that story is not over,
death, as far as we understand it, is a real final thing.
And so we still, for this side of heaven,
there's no world where TJ is going to grow up with me, right?
Like we will not see him grow up as a kid.
But I just have to believe, because Scripture says
that even this isn't the
end of the story. That there's more to the story that we don't see yet. But it is the thing I don't
want people to hear you and I saying what you are not saying, but I'm also not saying is, well,
then you can't be, don't grieve, don't be sad, just hang on. No, you're in it. No, I can cry about it.
I can cry it out. Of course you can.
Yeah.
You can still hold all those things.
You can still hold grief.
100%.
And still be believing that you are a tree
planted by streams who leaves will not wither
and everything you do will prosper.
Yes, that's what I mean.
It is a wrestle because both are true.
Because it does hurt.
Because it is unfair. Because it is unfair.
Because it is the worst and what you didn't expect.
And you're going to cry about it.
But that doesn't also mean that there isn't hope.
And again, I think that's what our generation has
a hard time doing.
You just throw it all out with the wind.
And it's like, no, don't throw it all out with the wind.
Wrestle with it.
Dive into it.
Dig into it.
And God is like, he's the God of all comfort.
And you talk about, there's that verse,
weep with those who we rejoice with those who rejoice.
And sometimes at the same time,
you can be both of those people.
You can be the one weeping and somehow the one rejoicing.
And that's a part of life.
I'm so glad that you shared that and you touched on that.
Yeah, welcome to being human is so true.
I would like to go through Hebrews 11.
I need to, I'm going to go through this.
I'm making a mental note and a out loud note to myself
because so many of those people,
like they had so many highs and lows and they were human.
And I mean, David, of course,
you can read his highs and lows
and like they were wrestling it out with the Lord too.
And yet like all of those things ended
without all the promises that they thought.
But yet what does that look like for them for eternity?
And what does that look like for me?
So I'll just encourage our friends listening,
speaking of wrestling with God,
Jacob is the one who wrestled with God
and God like busted up his hip
and he limped for the rest of his life.
The last time a person is mentioned in the Bible
is really important.
And Jacob, the last time he is mentioned is Hebrews 11.
So everyone needs to go read that.
We'll just send them on a little scavenger hunt.
The last thing we know about Jacob
and the little sentence about him tells you a thousand things
about his life and how God redeemed a bunch of stories.
So Hebrews 11, y'all go look it up, go find Jacob.
It's the last thing we know about Jacob and it look it up, go find Jacob. It's the last thing
we know about Jacob and it'll just bring tears to your eyes. It's beautiful.
Wow. I'm so excited. And like I've read Hebrews 11, but I don't remember what it says. I wasn't
paying attention to that. So I'm like, Oh my gosh, as soon as we get off this, I'm going
to go read that. And everyone else, if you need to pause this episode to go read it,
go read it right now. If you don't, like if you don't want to spoil it, then wait till
the end and then we'll all go find
it together. But one thing I want to end with is kind of like two questions I've kind of
had on my heart. Because you've studied singleness, you've lived it too. You have so much knowledge
about it. You also have the personal experience with it. Can you encourage those who are single
listen to this podcast right now
Like what do you just want to tell them as you know someone who's sitting in your seat right now?
You've obviously said so much about what you're working what you're doing so much good advice already
but just a little encouragement to where they're at in their life because this is so unique that someone like you who is
such a studier of the word such a
Well spoken communicator
can speak into that season of their life.
Yeah.
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I'll tell you two quick things.
One is I would not trade it.
I wouldn't trade it.
If God offered me, would you like to go back
and do this different and get married when you're younger?
I actually wouldn't at this point.
The story he has written,
when he says more than you could ask or imagine,
that's tough for me, because I can imagine a lot.
I have a very good imagination.
And he still has surprised me at every turn.
And the other thing that is really profoundly beautiful
for single people is God says in Isaiah
that he is your husband.
And if you want to start saying,
God, you said you're my husband, help me.
I mean, we have these testimonies
from girls in Single Purpose League.
We talked about this one time.
And one girl was like,
my car was broken and it fixed miraculously.
And another girl was like,
my dishwasher wasn't working and I prayed and it fixed.
I mean, there's like miracle stories.
When you go to scripture and you say,
God, you said you are a provider, provide God,
I mean, He loves being reminded.
And so, I mean, He says, remember all the time in the Bible,
He loves being reminded too.
And so I will say to God,
I feel unsafe because I'm in my house by myself maybe.
And I'll go, hey, husbands protect.
So would you protect me?
Because, and so I would just encourage people
to start living that verse true.
It's beautiful.
And the last thing I'd say is,
you said this really beautifully
when you're talking about what Paul said
about being single.
And a couple of years ago,
I won't use your time to tell you the whole story,
but a couple of years ago, I had a use your time to tell you the whole story,
but a couple of years ago,
I had a really profound encounter with God
at an if gathering.
And I felt like the Lord kind of invited me
to live under this question of,
if the gospel goes further, if I stay single,
am I willing to do that?
And as you can imagine, that kind of sentence spun me out.
I came back and talked to my mentor.
We were in Dallas or wherever.
I came back, talked to my mentor, talked to my pastor,
talked to my counselor.
I mean, I was like,
is this God saying I have to be single forever?
Is this God saying I have to be single forever?
And instead what it has,
well, I don't know if that's the answer.
Stay tuned.
I have no idea if I'm gonna be single forever.
But what I do know is that sentence,
if the gospel goes further, if I stay single,
am I willing to, shapes every dating relationship
I walk toward.
Because I just go like, hey, and so for today,
this exact day that we're recording,
and most likely the day people are listening
unless I have a crazy week,
the gospel goes further through my life if I'm not married.
And so thanks be to God that somehow today,
this conversation you and I had,
the conversation we had for that sounds fun.
The other things I put my hands to today
impact the kingdom more today because I'm single.
And for you, Sadie, they impact the kingdom more today
because you're married. And so in every Sadie, they impact the kingdom more today because you're married.
And so in every dating relationship,
when it starts to fall apart,
which spoiler alert, they all have so far,
I go like, it still makes me cry.
It's still very hard.
It's all the things.
And also the sentence goes,
well, if that's not the guy
that the gospel goes further with, I don't want him.
I only want the guy that is going to do more.
And I want a lot of other things than a husband,
but in a partner, I want someone that the Lord goes,
hey, you remember me asking you
if the gospel would go further if you stayed single?
Not anymore.
Now it goes further with him than without him.
And so until that comes along,
this is exactly who I want to be.
Ooh, that's good.
That is so good.
What I hear you saying that's so powerful too is like,
it is like you're single and you desire marriage.
Absolutely.
But you're not desperate for it.
Like you could get married to someone if you want to do.
Anybody can get married if they want it too bad enough.
You can get married, but it's like, that's not the point.
It's not just that you want to get married
for the sake of getting married. You have a vision for it. You have a hope for it. But at that's not the point. It's not just that you want to get married for the sake of getting married.
You have a vision for it. You have a hope for it.
But at the end of the day, like, what is going to spread the gospel more?
And you're willing to lay that at the feet of Jesus and say, like,
I only want marriage if it's actually going to grow your kingdom more.
Like, that's beautiful. And like, yeah, you want other things too,
because again, we're human and you desire those things,
but ultimately, like, that's shaping it. And I think that's so beautiful that you can get to a place of singleness
that you truly desire it, but you're not desperate for it. And you can make so many more wise
decisions from that place than desperation. I want to ask you on the flip side of question
to your married friends and friends that are in relationships. When, when, and even for
me, like as a podcast host,
you like, we talk about relationships all the time.
What's something you wish people were more sensitive to
when they talk about singleness?
Because I think tone does matter and like questions,
but is there something that you're like,
I wish people wouldn't act like that
when you talk about singleness.
No, I mostly want singles to have a little bit thicker skin
because we should let people talk about marriage and dating
and not take it personal like they don't see us.
And so often I want to be like,
no, we want to hear about that.
That's cool.
So I don't, nothing comes to my mind
of what we need necessarily in conversation,
but I will tell you the thing I hear a lot
and the thing that matters a lot to me
is when my married friends think of me
when they're trying to set someone up,
or if they meet a new single guy. And so, and it just requires really high communication between
singles and marrieds of going like, Hey, Sadie, I'm not dating anybody today. If you met someone
and he was in my age bracket, would you think of me? Or the married person calling you calling
me and going, Hey, Annie, I was speaking at this church
and the pastor's single,
are you interested in being set up right now?
And then I get to say,
actually I'm just recovering from a thing,
so not today, but thank you for thinking of me.
Or yeah, girl, let's roll.
And so it's just a high,
so maybe that's a conversation,
Sadie, that would be fun to have at some point
on Whoa That's Good is kind of having some marrieds
and singles talk together about like,
what does it look like to have really high communication
between your friendship so that singles feel seen
and married people feel permission to talk about
their sex lives and their parenting lives
and their like financial life
and their things with their husbands without going,
oh, I can't complain that my husband
didn't empty the dishwasher
because Annie has to empty the dishwasher by herself.
A, that is still a problem for you,
whether that's true for my dishwasher or not.
And I want to be in friendship with people who are married.
And so I want to hear that stuff.
I also want you to think of me next time you meet
a 40 year old who's not married.
Girl, you know I will, you know I will. And there might meet a 40 year old who's not married. Girl, you know I will. You know I will.
And there might be some 40 year olds in this podcast right now.
And if you're like, that is the woman of my dreams.
And maybe shoot a DM.
I don't know if any of you read your DMs.
My DMs are shaped like a slide.
Just come on in.
Think like a slide.
I love you so much.
I am genuinely just so thankful for who you are, how you steward your platform
and just sharing you with the world. It is a true gift. You teach so much with the words
that you say, but the life you live is something that I learned from just as much as the words
that you say. If you listen to this podcast, I used to do this whenever I was learning
how to speak, I would watch speakers speak. And what I would do is I'd like watch Priscilla Shire. And the first time I'd receive it for the words that she said, but then
I'd watch it again to look at how she said it. Because that was how I was learning how to use
analogies and actually how to connect with scripture and not take away but add to all the
different things. I feel like this is one of those podcasts that made me think of that, because you
could listen to this podcast and listen to the words you say and write down the notes and it's
one thing. But then if you listen to it again from listen to the words you say and write down the notes and it's one thing.
But then if you listen to it again
from just the posture that you hold
and that you carry and the way that you live,
you would take a whole nother set of notes from that.
And so thank you for living such a powerful life
with so much authenticity.
It's beautiful.
I love you.
And thank you for coming back on the Well That's Good Podcast.
Thanks friend.
Love you.