WHOA That's Good Podcast - I Was Burned Out & Needed Help! | Sadie Robertson Huff & Pete Richardson

Episode Date: March 5, 2025

Sadie sits down with her friend and life coach, Pete Richardson — Co-Founder of the Paterson Center — to talk about the time in her life when she was burned out and needed some help - fast! Sadie and Christian took part in a life plan strategy session with Pete that was "surgery for the soul" but helped them identify their blind spots, how to say "no" to things even when they're good, and how to pursue God in all aspects of their life in a purposeful and intentional way. Pete shares what he's learned about leading more than 1,000 clients through a life plan session and reminds us to think about what it means for us, as humans, to be made in the image of God.  This Episode of WHOA That's Good is Sponsored By: https://helixsleep.com/sadie — Get 20% off sitewide today! https://drinkag1.com/whoa — Get a lululemon Exclusive Everywhere Belt Bag and AG1 Welcome Kit, with your first subscription, while supplies last with your lululemon membership. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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helixsleep.com slash Sadie. ["On Your Night Now"] What's up everybody? If you are watching this on YouTube, then you know we are not in the Whoa That's Good studio. I am actually here in London, which is so amazing at the Art Conference. Learning so much. I know you guys are looking at me like, you don't ever dress like that and not

in this fancy of a studio, but today's a really special day and it's going to be so fun and kind of ironic because I have wanted this man to come on my podcast for so long. He's actually a great friend. He's been pretty much a mentor to Christian and I in our life. And of all places, we get to record this podcast in London, we have Pete Richardson here, thank you so much for doing this podcast.

Great to be with you, I love it. I know, it is funny that of all places we're here, because you just were in Louisiana. That's cool, from Louisiana to London. Let's go, here we are. Well, what's really cool, cause our podcast guests will recognize you from the fact that I talk about our life plan all the time on the podcast.

And it's always kind of one of those things where I hesitate sometimes to share because I feel like, okay, maybe not everyone's gonna have like the opportunity to go do a life plan or maybe that feels unrealistic in their season of life to like go do a life plan. But I also am like, I have to share because it was like the most helpful thing for Christian and I right after we had Honey

and just really trying to figure out our life. That was like the first time I ever experienced a touch of what burnout feels like. And I didn't ever expect to feel that at what, 25. But I just, you know, life took me to that place and you helped me along with the Lord to kind of get out of it. But I just, you know, life took me to that place and you helped me, along with the Lord, to kind of get out of it.

I'm so thankful for that. So just for context for everyone listening, this is who we're talking to. Pete, before we get into who you are, what you do, all the good life planning stuff, I have to ask you the question I ask everyone on the podcast, what is the best piece of advice you have ever been given?

I thought about that. Thought about two things, but I'll hit the first one. It was from my dad. My dad gave me the gift of an active present father, dad. And this was right before I went to college. I was like 18. Grew up on a ranch. So I remember the day we were pulling a submersible

well pump out of the ground to replace it. It had broken about a hundred feet down. And it's a hot August day in Southern Colorado. And we're pulling this up and there's like slimy silt from down in the earth. It's getting all over us. And I remember these little black flies, I can smell it and everything.

And he always used to jokingly say, it's a jungle out there. You know, and here we lived in rural Colorado and I'm going off to college in the big city. And he said this, he said, it is a jungle out there, but if you learn to discern the voice of your father God, you'll be able to navigate anything in the jungle. Wow.

And at the time I was like, yeah, right, right, dad, right? You know, you're just a kid, you're ready to flap your wings and fly and fast forward about 18 months, I was gonna be a veterinarian. I don't know if you knew that. I did not know that. I was gonna be a veterinarian, an animal doctor, and I was in analytical chemistry,

which my brain could not go there. It was like this three-dimensional, like quantum type stuff. We did not have phones. We had CB radios. Do you even know what that is? I don't. It's like a radio with the long antenna on your truck.

You talk by radio. So I had to call someone like five miles from our house and he had to go there. And so I talked to him on this landline and I said, dad, I'm thinking of quitting. And he said, well, I'll support you in whatever you do, but here's what I want you to do. I want you to hang up the phone

and go for a 30 minute walk. And I want you to ask God what he wants you to do. So I did. I went on this walk in Colorado Springs and I called him back and I said, I'm staying. And he said, I thought you could say that. But he was teaching me how to inquire of God and discern the voice of God outside of myself.

So one of the greatest gifts he gave me, I told him that recently. He's still alive at age 88. Wow, that is so cool. This is like why I ask everyone that question, because it's like when you go back to the best piece of advice that person was giving, you see how it shapes them and to who they become.

And I did not know that was where you were going or what you were gonna say, I didn't know that story. But I've heard you say those things to us. Like you talk about asking God, what do you think about this? Going on a walk, doing those things. And actually it was the walks you encouraged me to start taking that helped me so much

with hearing what the Lord had for our life. So that is so cool to know that your dad actually spoke that over you before you were doing life plans, but that probably shaped a lot of what you do now. Well, you've heard me say, I think that, you know, every leader in scripture that lived well and ended well, one common thing they all share in common is they inquired of God. And I think we way over religionize that. It's simply saying, what do you think

about what I'm thinking? What do you think about a decision I'm thinking of making or something I'm thinking of pursuing? Like literally ask God for his inputs. Do I have any blind spots? Is there any thing in my thinking that you wanna correct or any counsel you want to give me? So it's become that kind of conversational thing for me and oftentimes happens on walks. Yeah, that's so cool

Okay, so for those who have not heard me talk about a life plan, they're like, what is a life plan? So I want you to answer what a life plan is what you do But also you can back it up and tell your story how you even got started doing what you're doing How old were you when we did your life plan? is what you do, but also you can back it up and tell your story, how you even got started doing what you're doing. Sure. How old were you when we did your life plan? I was 23. Was I 23 or 24? I was 20.

I was 24. Thanks babe. Christian's in the house today. I was 24 and Christian was 23, because I'm a year older. You guys are babies. We were babies, we were. Still babies.

One thing that you helped us understand was that we were so young, but we were put in roles that were requiring us to be much older than we actually were in age, which is why I felt so overwhelmed. So again, to the point of this being such a helpful tool in our life, it was seeing like, whoa, we are young and we are like holding a lot of responsibility right now.

That feels really overwhelming, and that's why I feel this way. So how did you get started, and when did you get started? So yeah, your first life plan was 24, mine was 28. I was 28, almost 29. And unlike you, I didn't know I needed it, I didn't really wanna do it. I didn't really wanna do it. I was a young leader in this organization

called Promise Keepers way back in the 90s. And part of our leadership development investment track sort of that they had on as leaders, young leaders, was to go get your life plan done by this guy, Tom Patterson, who actually conceived life planning. He would have been about 75 years old back then, so my turn was up and I flew to Palm Springs, California. And I remember, we had two little babies at the time,

I'd been traveling a lot, I really did not wanna be gone away from home. So I was kinda like tight-fisted, figuratively, and I remember driving from LAX down into Palm Springs, and I just heard one of those nudges inside from the Lord, like, hey Pete, I have something for you. And I kinda went like that, like opened my hands. And so when I showed up,

I had heard about this guy, Tom Patterson, like he's the guy who has the ATM pin technology patent. He's the guy who designed Space Mountain and the Epcot Center at Disney World. I could go on and on. He helped. Just little things, you know. Little things, worked with governments,

worked with the government of China back in the 80s under President Reagan. All this stuff. So I expected this big statured like corporate business guy to open the door. And Yoda opened the door. With like literally. Can you get a picture reference?

Yeah, so think of a cross between a Nebraska farmer and Yoda and that's Tom Patterson. Like big belly, you know, the suspenders that hold his pants up and like a short guy and has a cane literally and soft spoken. Tom took me through this life plan process. So when it's an individual one-on-one, it's two days. With you and Christian, it was three days for a couple.

But he did surgery on my soul for two days. And he asked me all these questions I had never really contemplated and engaged, like deep, God-given existential questions, like who am I really in my core? Who am I not? How did I get to where I'm at? Where am I really?

What are my God-given talents? Where is God moving me to apply those talents? And then how does that play out in the season of life in front of me? And so we, just like we did with you guys, you build clarity of vision and strategic steps to go move in that direction. So I had all that at age 28.

And I remember watching Tom do this to me, like doing surgery on my soul. And I thought, I wonder if I could ever learn just a little bit from this guy to help other people in this way. And that, I think Tom saw hunger in me as a young leader. from this guy to help other people in this way. And that, I think Tom saw hunger in me as a young leader. And then next year, I was in one of his first

certification training classes, me and five other people back in Palm Springs. And I was just this thirsty, hungry, desiring learner. And I took that learning back to my leadership and I had 80 people in my division back then at Promise Keepers and I started to use it on my team and my family members and my circle of friends, my pastor and just, I'm like wow,

I wanna learn to do this really well. And so it put me on this pathway of pretty accelerated learning, what I found out compared to other people. And so when I left Promise Keepers, I said, hey, I really wanna do this vocationally. I wanna help people. So what is it?

It's like we spend a lot of time getting, like we did with you, perspective and clarity and focus. And then out of focus, we get real good clarity on clarity of calling, and that becomes a north star. And then we can imagine that into the future and freeze frame it and build a word picture of vision. Now I have like a word picture to move towards. And if it's rooted in truth,

it magnetically pulls me into it and opens up and becomes more clear as I pursue it. And so I've had, Tom gave me the gift of a life map, a life plan process. I've probably edited my life plan 40 times since then because we can't predict the future, but we can go create it, and we can allow these North Star insights of clarity

to keep us on track. And that's what it's done for me. I am loving this new season of life right now, but it is busy with filming, recording, podcast, speaking, and raising a family. I need every bit of rest I can get. And that's why I'm super thankful for my Helix mattress. Helix has the best mattresses on the market, and the best part of it is they offer so many models,

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Well, I love that it's so personal for you and you can feel that even when you're sitting there across the room from you because you helped us so much with the clarity and the focus and even for me, just personally, just for those listening, the way that I got with this, because I didn't know what a life plan was, I had never heard of it. My parents had gone to you, but you know, when your parents do something, it's like, oh, that's for my parents, you know, like I didn't really know much about it.

I'd seen like a counseling thing they were doing, so I didn't really ask much, they didn't share much. And then God is just so good and so kind that I ended up being in Jackson Hole, actually Wyoming, and we were at a little retreat. And I had been really struggling. It was like five months after having honey and everything just felt really overwhelming. All of a sudden, like what I used to be clear on, it was not clear anymore. And we were, we felt just so over busy. Like we had said yes to so many things, but didn't know how to get out of them,

didn't even know who wanted to get out of them, and then in this pattern of continuing to say yes to things, and it was just too much. So I happened to sit by Jenny Allen on a bus ride, and I hadn't shared with anyone how much I was really struggling. And I was actually nervous to share because I felt like it was, I don't know, I felt like some of the things I was going to share would be something that would disqualify me from continuing on doing what I'm doing.

I didn't want to seem weak, I didn't want to feel like I wanted to stop, because it wasn't that I wanted to quit, it's just that I didn't know how to keep doing it. And so I tell Jenny, you know, I'm struggling, and I said, I don't even want to read my Bible anymore, because when I read my Bible, I have so much anxiety and stress on what I need to do and like

writing a message or we're going to this conference or a book timeline or like it's just like a million things and she was so encouraging and she was like you need to go see Pete Richardson and you and Christian need to do a life plan because also at the time Christian was trying to figure out who is he, how does our marriage like work with this whole ministry and lifestyle and who are we together as a couple? We both were just having really big life questions. And so when we came to you, it was just so sweet because it's at your house

and we went downstairs in the basement and for three days it was just like surgery on our soul. I cried, Christian cried, which you said was normal, I hope was normal. It is normal. It felt like it felt like it was probably should be normal for people. But I remember one thing you said to me that was like really a pivotal moment in the life planning and I've also thought about as I've continued on a lot. I don't know if you will remember this moment, but it really hit me.

I was really wanting to say yes to something else. And it was this big thing, and it was going to require so much time. And here I am trying to get out of how much stress I have, how crazy life is. But I'm like, well, we have to say yes to this thing because it's such a good opportunity. And how could we say no to it? And Christian didn't think it was smart for our family to do. We have this tiny newborn baby. I'm already overwhelmed. Here I am wanting to say yes to another huge thing. And you were like, if you do this, it will be very hard on your family. So do you really wanna do it knowing that,

that this is gonna be extremely hard? But if you remember, what I love about the life plan process, it's Socratic. What does that mean? It means it's guided with questions to guide someone's towards the discovery of truth. So in life planning, we're trying to excavate truth.

So we spent like two days out of those three days just getting perspective. And we had these seven layers of truth that we had excavated from the two of you individually and then together. And then we ran that opportunity through that filter. Yeah. And there were some, remember red dots on it.

There's some, yeah, there's some red dots. And the whole thing there is one red means it's dead. And there were multiple reds. There's lots of reds. So it wasn't me just saying don't do it. It was saying, you know, it's your life. You can still decide to do it. But if you do it, there will be repercussions.

And I don't remember the exact categories of the process that were read, but that's what I love about the process. And so an observation, people like you, when I say you, like you're a racehorse. Tom Patterson, my mentor said, people are either a burro or a racehorse. And one isn't better than,

it's like the turtle in the air. It's just who you are, yeah. Some people plod along and they still get there, but they're plotters. Other people are racehorses. And if you don't pull back a racehorse with a bridle, their heart will burst. And if you don't pull back a racehorse with a bridle, their heart will burst.

So that's a figurative illustration, obviously, but what it means is people like you are high output, high caliber leaders. And so to put it in context, most of humanity, as David Thoreau said, lead lives of quiet desperation and die with the song still in their heart. They don't know what their meaningful purpose in life is.

And so they're just in quiet desperation trying to satisfy it or find it. That's not you. So you've got this clarity of calling, but it's easy when you're wired that way to say yes to too many things that exceed human capacity. Yes. And that's what you are feeling.

Jenny Allen's the same way. Your mom and dad are the same way. So people like you and life plans, it's less about what's my meaningful calling in life and more about what are the things I need to say no to so I can leverage the best of all the other good. Yes. Well, that was what's so cool too.

And what helped me so much in that moment is Christian is not like that and it's actually so helpful to me because there have been many times, it wasn't just that time since then that I wanna start saying yes to too many things or I'm like, but this and I can, I think I gave a very convincing argument

as to why this sounds awesome. And then he's like, but you're not going to be healthy. Like you're, it's too much. You feel anxious or the kids or it's too, whatever the reasoning is and he's right most of the time and then sometimes he'll be like, okay, I can see that but it's so helpful in our marriage and it was so helpful to hear you say, yes, it's a good opportunity. Yes, you can make impact but look at the red dots like it's going to have consequences.

It will be hard on your family and I love that you didn't say don't do it but you did question that and I think that's what was so helpful to me because now I'm like, okay, this can be a good thing. But are am I missing something? Are there blind spots here? Where's the health of our family? That is the most important thing to me, alongside of the impact we're going to make. But the most important thing is that our family is strong. And it's been really cool here at AHRQ, like, so much talk about the family. It's so important for society that your family and your home life is healthy.

And so I love that question and I love what you just shared. One of the things that was really impactful for me, and people have asked me this question, well, how can you plan your life if you don't know what the future holds? And I love you already kind of addressed, I've changed my life plan 40 times. Our life plan, even just four years ago, has changed some,

but you know, the North Star has stayed the same, but things have changed. But I love how you brought in so many scriptures as to like, it is a biblical thing to plan, even though life changes. So can you speak into that a little bit? Yeah, I've had people say, you know, we don't need to plan. We just need to listen to God's Spirit

and do whatever the Spirit of God tells us to do. Well, yeah, you should do that, obviously. But I don't think it's one or the other. I think God is, and we're made in His image, I think He's a profound strategic planner and thinker. We're born into this story arc from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22, this story arc of God and His creation.

And it was going on way before we entered the story, and it's gonna go on way after the day we die. And here we are in 2025, right now, we're in the story. So, you know, when you think about just some of the pillars in scripture that talk about the gift of life, we're obviously made in God's image. You see that in Genesis two, we're made in his image. He made male and female to come together in marriage,

and he's created us to create. To create what? Well, one thing, obviously, is life. Like, to make babies. And that's, you have two of them already, three on the way. So that's a part of the gift of life, is we're created to create life.

But when it comes to thinking about the meaning of our life and the purpose of my life, you look at, like, take the parable of the talents. One guy's given in one version in Luke 10 talents, one's given five, one's given one. And the master goes away to see what they do with it. The one with 10 and five get 100% return on investment, but the one with one buries it.

And the master comes back to see what they did with it. And for the first two, he's like, well done, good and faithful servants. But for the third one, he strongly reprimanded, I'm gonna take your one talent and give it to the guy with 10, and I'm gonna cast you out. In other words, you took the talent I gave you

and you buried it. You didn't own it, you didn't cultivate it, you didn't bring it into its fullest mature expression and application in the world I put you in, in this chapter in the story of humanity. I love Acts 13, 36, that it's actually words of Paul written by Luke. He's going through all these milestones

of God's faithfulness in the history of Israel up to Jesus and through Jesus. And he gets to David, King David, and he said when David had fulfilled God's purpose for his generation, he fell asleep. When David had fulfilled God's purpose for his generation, he fell asleep. Here was this David kid who was a shepherd vocationally.

Then he was a musician for a while to keep crazy Saul sane. And then he was a warrior who took down Goliath and all the other Philistine armies. And now he's the king. And you look at Psalm 78, and his early years of learning to shepherd sheep now allowed him to shepherd the people of Israel.

And put your name in there. When Sadie had fulfilled God's purpose for her generation, God's purpose for her generation, she fell asleep. She didn't die. She fell asleep and joined her forefathers in the ground. So I'm passionate about that. You don't have to burn through years and decades and go to your grave without discovering your role and God's purpose in your generation. Springtime is all about new growth and there is no time like springtime to refresh your health and start working on living your best life and AG1 has you covered. AG1 is made to support your digestion and energy levels, helping you adapt to stress

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overall wellness every day, and that's why we've been partnered with AG1 for so long. And this is so exciting! AG1 is offering a Lululemon exclusive everywhere belt bag and AG1 welcome kit with your first subscription while supplies last with your Lululemon membership. So make sure to check out drinkag1.com slash woe to get this Lululemon offer. That's drinkag1.com slash woe. Oh, that was one of my favorite parts of our life plan and really cool. So everyone who's listened to this podcast probably knows now that our family's coming

back to TV. And one of the things that my parents were very adamant on before we go into the show was that we as a family know why we're doing what we're doing. And so we had a lot of conversations around it. It was really amazing. My parents would bring us to the house, cook us dinner. All right, they'd pull out the whiteboard. What are, what's our words going to be? What are we like, where's our intention out? What do we want people to feel when they watch the show? And then they took it a next step by bringing you in town and

actually sitting with us and speaking into all of our lives individually as couples. And when you said that again, it reminded me, and I wrote that down and wrote beside it, and I think you even said this, it's like, don't die before you do this. You know, like, I don't want to die before I accomplish the things that God put me on earth to accomplish. And I think so many people forget just the gift of a day,

forget the gift of life and the intention that you can have behind it. And like, man, if you put intentionality behind it, if you understand your meaning and your purpose, like, it is just, it's amazing what you can do at even such a young age. You know, so many people, even just being here, because I was speaking to the young leaders last night, they wanted me to talk about like, the importance of leading young and how you got the confidence to lead young. And I'm like, it's so important because you don't know how long you have.

Like, if you're alive today, then like lead today, you know, do it with intention. And so I love when you shared that one of the things I was going to ask you, and this is kind of, this might throw you off a little bit, but I don't think it will because we just talked about made in the image of God, but it's not specifically something we've talked about a lot

but something they talked about at Ark a lot. I've been so surprised by how many speakers have brought up that we are made in the image of God. And I thought it was so amazing because I run in like the Christian circles, at Christian conferences. I hear that all the time. I say that all the time, like, you are made in the image of God, the Imago Dei. And I think like a lot of times in church culture, when you're sitting at church, we're at a conference, we've heard it. We know that. It almost has lost its power. It's like, has it dawned on you what that really means? But in this room with so many political figures who are not really in church

spaces, who are not preaching that, but saying this, do you understand the importance of us knowing that you're made in the image of God? Like, and then you sat here and took it immediately to that when we talk about life planning. Can you speak a little bit to like the magnitude of what that really means to be made in the image of God? I said I was gonna be a veterinarian. So all other non-human life forms,

they don't ask these existential questions. Like, why am I here? Is there meaning to my existence? What do I do at the time I have? Today, tomorrow, and the years in front of me. My dog Porter is not contemplating the meaning of his life. He's a great personality.

He has a lot of that and preferences, but he's not thinking about that stuff. So here we are. We're different from the rest of the animal kingdom. And so, Proverbs 16, two says, it's out of our hearts that we plan. So what's the heart? It's this organ of the soul that has desire in it.

It has intention in it. It has affinity and inclination in it. It has passion in it. And it can be dark. The human heart can be really dark, just listen to the news. But it can also be very redemptive and noble. And so it's that heart that God wants to engage

by His Spirit and move us in that heart to apply the talents He's given us. So it's out of that heart that we plan. And then Proverbs 16, nine says, out of our hearts we plan, but God directs our steps. So I believe passionately, created in God's image, because he is a profoundly, just think about, think about the story arc in scripture of humanity.

And at some point, God tells his son Jesus, Philippians 2, the Knosis, I want you to go into this thing called creation through the womb of a virgin, because it's now ruled by the Prince of Darkness. That's pretty strategic, that's pretty cool. That's like a CIA special ops type deal. Like we're going in through the womb of a virgin.

And so that's how I think about God as strategic and now he's made us to contemplate the meaning of our life and to think why am I here? I have limited time, what is time? Time is a bunch of present moments strung together. History are past present moments that may be good memories or not, and the future is a bunch of future present moments.

And Jesus said very clearly, don't worry about tomorrow. Focus on today. It has enough issues of its own. So how will I engage the present moments before me thoughtfully, purposefully, and aligned with who God has made me uniquely and creatively? That's what I believe is before us. And so if we can discover that sooner rather than later,

then we don't, I can't tell you, Sadie, how many guys have been in that same space for life planning in their mid-50s, and they burned through decades, and they didn't do this, they didn't think this way or live this way, and now their scrapbook of memories has a lot of regret in it, usually around marriage and family, because they didn't understand how to integrate

in a healthy way the different life domains of my life. And so, you know, now their wife leaves, for example, or their kids don't want to have anything to do with them. That said, you can't retrieve those times. So the sooner we can think about the meaning of our life and get clarity on it, then we can use those insights of truth about who God has uniquely created us as we navigate forward.

That's great, that's so good. So you do a lot of life plans. You've done like over a thousand life plans, I think, and you do life plans with Christians and with non-Christians, which I think is amazing. And you approach them a little differently, probably, because you say a lot of scripture, which I do want to ask you about later,

because it is amazing how much you jump around scripture. What would you say, from just the perspective of being in these rooms, like, and I'll kind of tell you why I'm asking this, because yesterday someone came up to me and asked a really genuine question. I had just got off the stage at the Young Leaders thing and I was just talking about influence

and the power of influence and the intentionality behind it and how, you know, influence has been dumbed down to a blue check, but it's so much more than that. So we had this talk, but of course I weaved in faith and I talked about Jesus and all the different things. So I get off stage and this younger guy comes up to me and he says, I have a sincere question for you. And he's like, I love what,

like how you talk about religion and everything. And he was like, but do you think that, you know, for me, like, can I find that same faith in myself instead of in religion or in God? And he was like, because I mean, it's cool that you find it in God, but do you think I could find what you're talking about in myself?

And I said, I mean, you could go down that path, but I think it'll leave you empty, because then it's all dependent on you to get through everything. You know, for me, what a blessing it is to believe in God, because when I have anxiety attacks, I don't have to depend on me to get myself out of them. I'm calling on a higher power.

He was like, oh, that's really cool. And he was like, so like doubt, same thing. Yes, I don't have to depend on me to pull myself out of that rut. It was just a really cool conversation because it was a genuine question. Can I do this myself? I'm like, well, you can. I just don't think that's going gonna be as good of a route. What do you feel like, as you've seen

and navigated life planning with people who don't have God as a person in their life, or they don't have any type of faith, what's the difference? Well, it's a different conversation. And I don't pull out my Bible with those people. That wouldn't be right. I always ask them up front,

do you have a faith framework that I need to be aware of so that number one, I can understand it and also honor it? Because my job is not gonna, I'm not trying to evangelize them in a life plan, but I do let them know that we're gonna ask some really deep existential questions. And I'll oftentimes ask people, do you believe we have a soul?

And I've only had one guy who said no up front, but then he ended up on day two saying, yeah, I think we do. And so that's less religious, like is there an intangible and material side to your physical existence? Most people philosophically would say, well yeah, I think so, I think there is. So at least we have that.

So I always go on common ground. So when you talk about, I think you were right in what you said to that guy, is you can try, like go for it, give it a good run. Go see if you can find deep existential meaning in Yourself alone I Can tell you historically from history way before me and from people I've known over 60 years that have tried that It it ends in a pretty nihilistic

Dead end But I'm not gonna necessarily say that upfront. So what I do is I approach people with these deep existential questions. And it always comes down to what's in the heart. The heart is the potentially messy organ of the soul. Why is that? Because the heart is the potentially messy organ of the soul. Why is that? Because the heart is the place of desire. The heart is the place of what I want.

And if what I want is all about me ultimately, like I had a guy once in a life plan say his whole vision was literally to make $50 million in five years. That's what was in his heart. And so what do you do with that? Well, it's his life plan. And his life has not gone well.

That, in my opinion, not in the moment judging this verbally, but those kinds of self-centered pursuits, they lead you to an empty space. And in his case, yeah, his kids were one of those kids, like, I don't even want to be friends with you as an adult. Because you're off chasing 50 million bucks. That's the big idea in exclusion of being present as a dad. So that's just one little case study. But so the pursuit of self,

I think we come into our fullest sense of self when we engage the creator of self, God himself. And I believe that, we heard this panel on identity here at Ark. And, you know, I believe that lasting identity that really becomes a healthy operating system within our soul is not something we self-define,

it's something that is given to us by God himself. So when the human heart hears deeply, Sadie, I love you, you're my daughter, I'm so proud of you. Exactly those same words that he said to Jesus at the baptism and the transfiguration. When we hear that, and that's not just for Jesus, the capital S son of God,

that's for us as daughters and sons of God, and Romans eight. You know, now we've been not been given the spirit of fear, but we've been given the spirit of sonship and daughtership. And it's out of that that we cry out of a father. That's identity. So when I know, when I know how God has defined me, and it's not just neck up head stuff,

it's like deep in me, in my fiber, it doesn't matter what other people think or say about me. It really doesn't. It's great, yep. I can't, if that becomes the anchor of my soul, I'm anchored. And as I go as a leader into different spaces and there's turbulence or opposition,

I know in here who God has declared me to be, despite what other people tell me I am. Yeah, that's so good. Yesterday, that talk on identity was so good, and I love how he said, if you don't have a relationship vertical, you know, with identity, and that's where you're finding your identity,

meaning in God, then you will go this way. At horizontal, you will look anywhere, and you will attach it to whatever. Except for the problem with doing any of that is you can't anchor it. And he said it was it's so individualized that there's no roots in it. You can't anchor it. It's not going to stand. It will fall. And it was so true. I love how they kind of gave that pattern to how they were talking about how identity is almost even like a new term. If you they were actually saying like in the 60s,

we started talking about like, what's our identity? What's our identity? Before that, it was more like you would talk about yourself. But then before that, it was your soul. And it was a lot deeper than that. I actually never had anyone besides you ask me, like, do you believe there's a soul? You know, I don't, you never hear that.

People don't talk about that. You feel really passionate about talking about the soul. You have created something absolutely amazing that you showed us and I think almost done with the book or done with the book. I'm working on it. Working on a book, which is gonna be amazing. But talk a little bit about the journey

you've been on with the soul. Yeah, it goes back to my wanting to be a veterinarian days. So I love, so I was a biology major, pre-vet biology major, and I loved anatomy. For some reason was always, even as a ranch kid, I saw all your animals on your farm. I was like, fell in love with Christmas, your donkey. Like,

I know. But just all the little personalities, you know, you got pigs and turkeys and sheep and goats and donkeys hanging out together. But I'm fascinated by that. But anyway, back in those days in the biology lab, like dissecting hearts, sheep brains and pig hearts and bird wings and all this stuff,

I actually ran evolution through the scientific method. And it doesn't even pass its own test. It fails on like step four. But I was just fascinated by anatomy and the intricacy. I remember doing a bird wing and thinking, this is like a bird of prey wing. Like they're strong and powerful, but these little hollow intricate bones

and how they're connected together with these little delicate ligaments that together make this powerful force. And I thought, God is such an amazing designer. So all that to say, I'm fascinated. That's easy to draw. Leonardo da Vinci has all these sketches of the human body and all that way

before we cut people open like that. But I thought, if we could draw the anatomy of the invisible and tangible part of us, what might it look like? Not what do I think it would look like, but how might it look like if we look at the soul and the parts of the soul from scripture? So I've literally read through the Bible like four times

from front to back, highlighting every little, and I've got 73 pages of notes and verses on all the parts of the soul. And you know, I went to seminary years back and we used to debate, is the soul a dichotomy or trichotomy? What does that mean? It means is it body and soul, or is it body, spirit, and soul?

And I was always troubled by that debate, because I saw parts of truth in both, and there wasn't like one glaringly right one, but actually after reading through the Bible four times, I think both of those are wrong, actually. I think it's more complex than that. I actually see seven parts to the soul. Wow. And so certainly the soul and the spirit,

but also the mind and the heart and the will and the conscience and the seventh is actually the body because it's all integrated into the body. Isn't that cool? So the visual I showed you was it can't be proved because it's like trying to draw air. But it's like, this is how I think if I, back to my biology days when I drew anatomy, that could be right or wrong.

Like this is how I see the organs of the soul, as I call them, in their design. And I actually, it makes sense to me, Sadie, this might go too far. No, I love it, this is so good. But when you look at God's design criteria and specifics for the tabernacle that he wanted Moses to build, and for the temple he wanted Solomon to build, it's crazy.

Like, this many cubits this way, and this many cubits this way, and this way, and this stand this high, and this stand, and use these materials, and it's like, why is God so into design and architecture? And then he tells, he told Moses in Exodus 36, go find Ozelelil, and I'm getting the name, Bezalil and Ohaliab, something like that.

These craftsmen. These craftsmen. These experts. Yeah. And all these materials to go create the exact design specs I gave you. So my theory, it's a total theory, is that why wouldn't God design the soul

like he did these temples? And what do I mean by that? Because in the new covenant, the new covenant, this is crazy, that our bodies now are living temples. Yeah, it's crazy. So God inhabited the tabernacle, which was portable, they'd break it down and reassemble it,

and then the actual temple. And now in the new covenant in Jesus, we are the temple. Right. Colossians 1.27 said, "'This is the mystery of it all,' said Paul. "'Christ in you, the hope of glory. "'Christ in me, the hope of glory.'" Like, you're telling me the living spirit

of the risen Jesus lives in this human body? That's a crazy thought. It's crazy. But then I raise the question, like, where? Where would God inhabit the soul, the living temple? Well, I think there's a most holy place within the soul. And I think it's in the inner chamber of this human spirit, which is in the human heart, which is inside the will.

Wow. I know, that's what I think. I wonder so much. I actually got an artist who's a really cool artist, who he's gonna come up with a 3D thing for me on it. But I'm fascinated by it. And again, there's no way to prove it. But those organs of the soul are all biblical.

And they're unique and distinct. They have different functions. Just like organs in your body have different functions in your body, I think these different parts of the soul have different functions in the soul. Wow, that is the coolest thing ever. Because last year I got on this kick

just the verse, your body is a temple, you know, and Paul says like do you not know that your body is a temple? He's talking to these people. He's like you guys are like walking in the flesh. Like I want to address you like you're in the spirit, but you're not. Like you're just living in the flesh and do not realize that your body is a temple the most high and then he talks about how you can destroy the temple. So I got on this whole kick with the temple and the tabernacle and I would watch YouTube videos of how the temple was built

and all the different design of it. And I was just thinking like, man, this is so crazy that it was so detailed and so wonderfully designed and beautifully designed. And then where is it when you know Solomon dedicates the temple and he says I would I remember the message translation or version of it more than the actual version of it but essentially he dedicates it to the Lord and then the Lord shows up and basically saying like this is amazing this wonderful, but if you don't keep it,

you know, holy, if this place doesn't, then I'm going to be gone from it. Like I'm not going to be here. And it says, this will be a God visited devastation in the message version. And it really hit me because I was like, man, that's how so many of us walk around, like designed to host the presence of God, like, designed to be the temple of God, but like, it's a God-visited devastation. It's like, created in the image, has everything it needs to host the presence, yet we destroy it, you know? And it's very sad. And like, you see this happen after Solomon the temple, it just continues

to get destroyed. Well, there was idolatry in the temple, it just continues to get destroyed. Well there was idolatry in the temple. They actually began to worship false gods in the actual temple which was to house God's presence. So now go to the new covenant temple, your body, James 4.1. Says why do you have all these quarrels and these conflicts and these wars among you? It's because you have competing desires within you.

So now in the architecture of the soul, you can say, what are the parts of my soul that are in conflict with one another? So now you get, in Romans eight, the only way you can overcome the misdeeds of the flesh, as Scripture says, is by the Spirit. So now I've got this potential civil war within me. Thanks be to God that his presence inhabits us.

And this is where, talk about self, this is where I can over time literally experience the freedom from death to self. And when self begins to die becomes less, Jesus becomes more. And now the king and his kingdom live within my soul and it starts to bear fruit out of my life. That's not my own doing.

If it was, it'd be called self-righteousness. So I love this thinking, like, let's really get deep and real about our bodies. I think you're on it, because we can indulge, obviously, in the flesh, and it can contaminate and even set up idolatrous practices within the living temple. Totally, I think we see that all the time.

We live that, you know? I think Josiah, the story of Josiah has really resonated with me over the past couple years and I feel like it's actually a word for our generation to be reminded of because up to Josiah's life, you know, they had destroyed the temple. There are other gods in the temple had become horrible and he's this young king who, you know, is like, I want to, you know, pray to the God of David. He doesn't even know what he's really doing.

And then all of a sudden they rediscover the word as they're cleaning out the temple. And he's reading it and he begins to weep and then it changes his life. And then he ends up getting up in front of the whole nation as this young king and is like, we are going to repent and turn to the Lord. And then they like completely clean out the temple, like purge everything,

like get anything out that is not of the Lord. And it's such an amazing thing and a bit of a revival. And then the next page, it's back to corruption, you know? But I think that it's such a good point. It's a good story and it's a good reminder that, yes, we need to be reminded of God's word. We need God's word in our life. We need to rediscover it. We need to get out that ungodliness in us. But thank God we have the Spirit now. Like it's not on us to have to do all of those rituals that they had to do and go through all the processes and all the sacrifices. Like Jesus paid the

sacrifice for us. Now we need the blood of Jesus to wash us, the Spirit of God to live in us that's active and alive. And so I think, yeah, I love what you're saying. I think people don't think about this a lot, but it's something to think about because it's who we are. It's like what we're designed for. So it's amazing. I have two last questions. One is your love for the Word is incredible.

The way you know scripture is just absolutely amazing. You just mentioned that you read the Bible four times through, specifically for this project, not even just like in life, that's for this project. What does your Bible reading time look like? What does that look like for you to get in the word, and when did you become so obsessed with reading it? I had to detox from scripture after seminary. and the Word, and when did you become so obsessed with reading it?

I had to detox from Scripture after seminary. Seminary, not slamming seminary, I loved it. I loved those years of learning, but it took the life out of Scripture for me. So I had to go through a three year, almost like removal from it, because it was broken down into higher critical thinking, literary works, history, language, and all that. And that was a long time ago, that was like 30 years ago.

But since then, I've fallen in love with scripture. And I grew up reading scripture. My dad had me reading all kinds of great classics when I was young, because I'd get bored in school. So typically, for I don't know how long, I read the Bible through at least once a year, if not twice a year. Wow.

And I just use the U version app and just, but I'm always, every morning is, I hate the word quiet time, but it is quiet at 430 to six in the morning. It's quiet. The insects aren't even up. You know, and it's just the time to go into my space with coffee and a fireplace and marinate in scripture. And not just read it for distance,

but really meditate on it for depth. And so I've been doing that for years. I love it. Janet and I talk about stuff we're learning every day together. It's just a part of that. We never had formal Bible studies that grown up as a kid in my house,

but we talked about scripture all the time on the ranch. That's cool. Like digging ditches and working with animals and all that. It was always a part of our upbringing. So I love scripture. I get new insights every time I'm in it, even though I've read that passage forever. And it's like, wow.

So when God's spirit engages those words on that paper and then speaks to my human spirit, it's like, that's where I get, that's where I encounter God. And people are like, how do I hear from God? Well, just marinating scripture, that start there. And then learn to hear the whispers of God by his spirit, and those never violate the written word, by the way.

They never do, but people say, well, how do I hear them? No, it's God's voice and I didn't self-create that in my head. Typically, well, first of all, it doesn't violate scripture. Secondly, I know I didn't self-create those thoughts. They came outside of myself. Secondly, they stick. I can't shake them.

I don't forget them in a day. Sometimes in the next month or two months or three months, it's still coming back. And then fourth, it always leaves a sense of peace. Even if it's a hard word. So those are things I've really learned over time. That's good, that's good, that's true. Last thing, because I know we're running short on time,

but I know people are listening who are like, I wanna do a life plan, how do I do that? What are the next steps for people who are wanting to do a life plan, how do I do that? What are the next steps for people who are wanting to do a life plan? How do they, one, do it, and two, if they can't do a life plan, what's a good next step in general, hearing a podcast like this?

Sure, sure. Well, the Patterson Center, which I'm so grateful, the next generation of leadership under Jason Baker has taken it and runnin' with it, and they're just really, you would say, from a business perspective, scaling its impact. So we have hundreds and hundreds of certified facilitators and I think 130 franchisees now,

most of them in the States, but also around the world. We have a group here in the UK that are, they feel called to facilitate life plans for other people. So, PattersonCenter.com is a way to inquire if you're interested. And that's Patterson with one T. I always ask Tom Patterson, why not two T's? He said to save ink.

To save ink, that's good. So, PattersonCenter.com is a way to connect if you're interested and to engage more. And we do have some online materials that if people can't take the time or afford a full life plan, they can get them started. And we also have some group type things that people can go through things in groups.

It's not the one-on-one depth that we did together, but it gets people started. That's great, that's so good. Well, I know you guys are gonna love this. Obviously it helped change Christian and his life and our family and Pete, we're so thankful for you, truly. Christian and I are so thankful for you. I'm so thankful that I know you.

I'm so thankful I have your number to ask you questions, but I'm also just so thankful for you and Janet, the life y'all live, the way that y'all love people, the way that you love the word and for taking time to be on this podcast to encourage people. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Love you guys. So proud of you. You can reach out anytime. Thank you so much. you