WHOA That's Good Podcast - I Was Praised for My Eating Disorder | Sadie Robertson Huff & Jess Connolly

Episode Date: June 9, 2025

Words matter—and numbers can be deeply triggering, especially when it comes to how we see our bodies. Jess Connolly joins Sadie for a vulnerable, honest, and empowering conversation about body image, shame, regret, and the lies we believe about ourselves. Together, they explore how we can break these toxic patterns and walk in freedom. Jess opens up about how her body insecurities began early in life and actually intensified after she became a believer. Sadie shares her own story of disordered eating and how seemingly small, careless words fueled a painful downward spiral. Sadie and Jess talk about the confusion when they both became smaller after disordered eating — but were then praised for it. Jess then shares what she’s learned about the theology of the body which you can read more about in her book, "Breaking Free from Body Shame," or start the accompanying Bible study here: ⁠https://breakingfreefrombodyshame.com/⁠ This episode of WHOA That's Good is sponsored by: ⁠https://gominno.com⁠ — Get your first month FREE when you use code WHOA at sign up. Take advantage of this web-only exclusive offer today! ⁠https://covenanteyes.com/sadie⁠ — Visit the website to learn more and start your journey toward a healthier, stronger marriage today. ⁠https://shopbeam.com/sadie⁠ — Get up to 35% off PLUS 2 free gifts with code SADIE --- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up sisters and friends? Happy Monday everybody. I hope you're having a good start to your week, but y'all it is about to get so much better because today we're talking about a topic that is so desperately needed. We are going to be talking about this topic, a body image, with one of your favorite guests ever on the Will It's Good Podcast, who is back? We have Jess Connelly here in Louisiana, so welcome. I'm so happy to be here. It's a dream.

I mean, it's so fun. And I didn't even know you were a Duck Dynasty fan, so. Literally. O.G. Duck Dynasty fan. Now you're like at the Duck Commander warehouse. I have chills, personally. My husband this morning was like, I am so jealous of you. I was like, I know.

We should have brought your whole family. Listen, we'll come back sometime. Next time. Next time. I really meant it when I said it. You were one of our audience's favorite guests. My favorite guest. And it was kind of like not unexpected

because you're amazing, but I hadn't read a bunch of your stuff. I hadn't listened to a bunch of it. I had just been, so many people said, you need to have Jess Connelly on. So I started following you. I was like, oh, she's amazing. But I hadn't dove into your world yet.

So when we were having that conversation, I was like, whoa, this is so rich and so good. And one of the things we had talked about in the podcast is Breaking Free from Body Shame, which is a book you wrote, how many years ago? I wrote it in 2020. I wrote it during the pandemic. So five years ago. Yes, so we talked about that.

And now we're gonna have a full conversation about that because Lord knows that needs a whole conversation. And we're so sensitive to the fact that so many people listening to this podcast have either experienced that or are currently walking in so much body shame. And so first of all, just thank you for writing a book on the topic. Thank you for being willing to talk about the topic. It's not an easy one to to share and not an easy one to even dive into. So I'm thankful for that. And just wanted to

ask you though, before I get into your story, because last time I asked you the best piece of advice you've ever been given And I heard this time you might have some best piece of advice Specifically when it comes to body image, okay, it's gonna seem simple, but I am telling you it is life-changing. It's life-changing It's this is what the advice is we're coming into summer. Everybody's gonna go on trips. You're gonna go on beach trips You're gonna go on fun trips with your family. You're gonna do fun girls' night out. After you take a photo, as you should, take a fun group photo,

do not crowd around the back of the phone to look at it. As you would. As you typically do. As we do. And someone once gave me this wisdom and said like, hey, just don't do it. Actually, to be honest, this is how they gave me the wisdom.

They just didn't do it. I said, do you wanna see the photo? And they were like, no, I'm good. Whatever it is, do it. Actually, to be honest, this is how they gave me the wisdom. They just didn't do it. I said, do you wanna see the photo? And they were like, no, I'm good. Whatever it is, post it. And I thought that's revolutionary. And then the next time I took a group photo, somebody was like, oh, let's do the thing. Because what happens is we gather on the back of the phone

and we start picking our own bodies apart, which actually like speaks stuff over the women around us. But then on the flip side, when we just say like, I'm good, post it, do whatever, it is a ripple of freedom. It's so incredibly helpful. It's such a small thing that is a really big deal. Well, that is so good.

And there's so many things in that I want to talk about, which we're going to get to in this podcast. And it's interesting, I kind of had to have that same moment for me where I am on camera a lot, whether it's podcasts or an ad or a TV thing or something. And finally, I just had to stop caring about what I looked like all the time on camera. Because it's like, no one else is thinking

the things I'm thinking. No one else is picking me apart. And so you used to be like, OK, do you want to prove it? I'm like, no, it's OK. It's good. Because I'm not approving it because I'm worried about what I said. I'm only looking for approval in the way that I look.

And that's a waste of time, honestly, and energy and mental space. And so, I kinda got to the same place. And I've heard you say this, you're like, now the risk in that is you see a picture online that you don't love. Yeah. But.

But that's your face. That's your face. That's your body. It's who you are. And it might be a bad angle, but hey, Lord bless you and keep you. I say that as a woman with an incredibly expressive face. So literally I traveled to teach and so I'll be on stages and I just warn churches upfront,

like you are not gonna get a good picture of me. It's not gonna happen. It doesn't happen. I'm gonna be like, or that you know, that's how I teach. Oh yes. It's gonna be bad. And also, but I'm also like, that's my face. Oh yeah, when you get like the candidates from a conference

and you're like, oh, okay, so there's not one? Okay, cool, cool. No, okay, I don't smile at all while I'm teaching. Oh good, I'm gonna swear I wasn't angry. I promise I wasn't angry. I promise I wasn't angry. I know, I will always text some people back, I'll be like, do you have any video footage maybe I could share to give more context

to the face you just said? But no, that's hilarious. I do wanna hear your story. What led you into being the girl, the woman who wrote a book about breaking free from body shame? Yeah, well, this is gonna sound like it's gonna be a long story, but I hope it's not that long. But truly, my earliest memory is feeling insecure in my body.

It's as far as I can go back, and as a writer, as an author, I'm a rememberer. Like I tell my narrative in story, and the earliest I can go back, I have this memory of riding in the backseat of my mom's car and running my hand down my body and thinking if I could just cut off this portion of it, I would be like other people.

I would be like my cousins. I would be more normal. And that's for me, as far back as I can trace, like my very first memory. So I have to ask like, what came before that? You know, what implanted that lie in my head so early? I had to have been under five. And I know, you know, for me, it is rooted in the fact

that I was born in the eighties. And so diet culture wasn't diet culture. It was just culture. It was just culture. Every commercial, every conversation, it was just culture. It was just culture. Every commercial, every conversation, it was so normalized that of course, everyone would want to lose weight all the time. That's what they would be talking about all the time.

It was so normalized to talk to kids about their body, to say what was wrong about children's bodies in front of other people. And so I think I was just born into that. I don't think my family was especially bad at it. I think we were just normal. That was just normal. And so my earliest memory was like, this is not right. Something's not right. And I carried that through my childhood. Now, of course, what's remarkable is when I look back at pictures of my childhood, I'm a normal kid. Isn't that wild?

It's wild. But in my head, I was so abnormal. There was something so massively wrong with me. Wow. And that was just cemented by media, by conversations, by things people spoke over my body. It's a part of my story, you know, and Lord knows she can't help it,

but I have a sister who's three years older than me, who's about a foot of my story, you know, and Lord knows she can't help it, but I have a sister who's three years older than me, who's about a foot taller than me, with brown hair, who is literally a model. She was a model when we were growing up. And so that was interesting. She's also a genius and she's also the nicest person you ever met and she loves God more than anyone I know. So I just, I grew up like a few feet away from this otherworldly person who was so beautiful,

so praised for her beauty, so praised for her insight and her wisdom and her intelligence, which she is so incredibly smart and so incredibly kind. But I just always was a few feet away thinking like there's something, there's just something not right about me. There's just something not good. I remember telling my friends in high school, the first group of close girlfriends I had before I became a believer, I remember telling them

one night at a sleepover, I just don't feel like you guys. Like I feel like something's wrong with me. And I remember being met with affirmation, like well yes, it would probably be better if you went on a diet or, you know, yeah, maybe you should work out a little bit more. And so that message got cemented a little further. But honestly, for me, when my story with body image became dangerous and terrifying was

actually after I became a believer. So I had a radical conversion experience when I was 15, death to life, day to night, you know, one day, just one day I knew I was not a Christian. I knew I was 15, death to life, day to night, you know, one day, just one day, I knew I was not a Christian, I knew I was not a believer, I knew I did not have a relationship with God. And the next day, all I could think about was Jesus. And I sat on my bed as a, you know, sophomore in high school the day after I met the Lord, just flipping through my Bible and thinking, I want to spend the rest of my life telling people about God. And I think that was essentially for me my call into ministry. And I have felt that joy and excitement and exhilaration around

using my God-given gifts for the good of others and His glory since that day. But really, really quickly, I realized that my body, according to other people and according to culture, was gonna be what kept me from effectiveness in other people's eyes. And so I would have pastors comment on my body. I would have other Christian women comment on their bodies around me and even kind of equate their beauty or their aesthetics or their thinness

to their godliness, their righteousness, their self-control. And so I received overtly and subtly these messages that didn't just underline what culture had told me about my body, but like twisted kind of a gospel knife in it. If you were godly, you would look this way. If you had self-control, if you had these things in your life, this would not be such an issue for you. And so I just received all these really confusing messages

that really continued to exacerbate my issue with my body. I didn't know what God said about my body, but when I heard godly people talk about their bodies, it felt very shameful. And so one night I was in college and I had all of this body, these body image issues kind of baked into me already. Um, and I was actually at a ministry event and I heard another woman get up and share her testimony about an eating disorder. And she described her disordered eating behaviors. And she was talking about receiving freedom from them. But I heard her tell her story and what she did

to engage in disordered eating. And I took it as a tutorial. Wow. And I went home that night. And I remember thinking like, I'm not gonna feel this way anymore. I'm not going to let this be my issue anymore. And so that was in early college.

And so I began to engage in disordered eating behaviors, both anorexia and bulimia in different types, in different forms. And then, unfortunately, what happened is is I was massively encouraged and praised. That is the worst. And that happens so often. Yeah, I was, people were like, now you are getting your life together. And so at the time I was already teaching the word.

I was already even writing for a couple of different publications in my late teens, which was wild, but then those opportunities began to increase. And then, you know, churches that maybe would have like, not listened to me before, but like, well, now you could definitely would want you to teach. And so there were people- Do you think it was actually because of that? Or what do you- was that a coincidence? Or do you feel like some of it was that?

coincidence or do you feel like some of it was that? Friends, we all know that marriage can be hard. Krish and I have had easy days and hard ones just like everybody else, but for us and for our family, it's so important that we stick together through it all and that's why I'm proud to tell y'all about Covenant Eyes. They've always had a heart for helping couples, especially in a world where we're surrounded by technology and distractions. Victory by Covenant Eyes is a tool designed to help protect your marriage and build real trust through accountability.

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It's about protecting what matters the most, your relationship with God and with each other. Marriage is supposed to mirror the way God loves us, faithful, forgiving forgiving, and full of grace. And Covenant Eyes can help make that happen. Friends, I just so encourage you to do this. You know, I always talk about that verse, confess your sins to one another and you will be healed. There's no sense in struggling in the dark. This is a path towards healing and we encourage you to take it. So if you're married, engaged, or even just dreaming about the future, I can't recommend Covenant Eyes enough. Go to covenanteyes.com slash Sadie to learn more

and start your journey towards a healthier, stronger marriage today. That's covenanteyes.com slash Sadie. I think some of it was that. And some of it was overtly said. It almost seemed like, well, you're getting your life together. It wasn't just like, well, you look better now aesthetically.

It was like, you seem to be the full package. So you must internally be also be experiencing some increased righteousness or godliness or sanctification. So, you know, some of it may have just been normal life. And I received the lie and believe the lie. Some of it was overt. life, and I received the lie and believed the lie. Some of it was overt. And so that really led me just down an incredibly dark path where I stayed for about 10 years. And then after the birth of my fourth son, my fourth kid, my third son, I began to engage

in some disordered behaviors again to lose the baby weight. Actually, my husband and I are local church leaders and we had moved to a new church where he was gonna pastor. And the church that we moved to, almost as like an initiation ceremony, would gift pastors this weight loss plan

where you took this kind of crazy supplement and went on a really extreme diet. And they had all done it. All the pastors at the church had done it and they were like, actually you know we want to just gift you guys this expensive program where you take these supplements and you you know eat under a thousand calories a day for a certain amount of time and we all do it and we thought you'd love it. And I just had my fourth son and so I was like okay all right I'll do it.

And for me, it brought all my disordered eating behaviors just back full force. And again, I was massively praised. Now I finally lost the baby weight. Now by this point, I'm a mommy blogger, and I'm starting to talk to publishers about book writing deals, and I'm teaching at more places. And I went forward kind of in that season,

that second season of just extreme darkness for about 18 months and something broke in the middle of the night. And I was like, I cannot live this way. God has brought me so much freedom in so many other areas of my life. I've based my entire life on a kingdom-minded principle. And I do not have a kingdom-minded principle about

this. This cannot be right to be harming myself privately and calling it freedom publicly. And so that led into about a 10-year exploration for me of learning really what God's Word said about the body, really just developing a theology of the body, which I didn't have before. And understanding what freedom really looked like and understanding the path of how most people walk to freedom and doing that myself. And then about 10 years after that moment

is when I ended up writing, Breaking Free From Body Shame. Wow, your story is like, I feel like probably hitting so many people in so many ways right now because I can think about my own story and different things and a time in my life when I picked up some disordered, not only eating, but thinking patterns and all of that.

And then that was the time I was most praised for how I looked. And that's confusing because like you said, it's like, okay, this is like getting such good feedback, but I am miserable and I'm losing myself in it. And then all my thoughts, instead of being towards things that actually matter are also self-absorbed into what I look like, what I'm eating.

And that's what my whole day began to revolve around. And it's so interesting, because I've been thinking about this with, even just being pregnant, just how many people comment on your body in a million different ways, you know? I mean, before I was pregnant, you know when people guess,

oh, are you pregnant? Do you think you're pregnant? And then you get in your head, you're like, do I look pregnant? Oh, I like all those things. And then you get pregnant, and then people are like, oh, you're so small, you're so small, you're so small.

Or, oh, you're so big, you're so much bigger you're so small. Or, oh, you're so big, you're so much bigger than I thought or whatever. And it's like every day I have somebody say something different. And I've had, it was so interesting, I was thinking about this because recently someone was like, oh my gosh, you don't even look pregnant, you're so small. And then the next day I wore a different outfit

and someone said, are you sure it's not twins? You popped so soon. And I was like, how do you, in your mind, coming from my past where those thoughts would have taken me to a dark place, how do I receive those thoughts and not let it get to me and change the way that I am and the pattern that I am? And I want to talk to you a little bit about that,

because you had this 10 years of really hard and then 10 years of freedom before you even wrote the book. Nowadays, like when it comes to your view of your body or people commenting on your body, like how do you not go back to the place you've been before and really stay in that like breaking free of body shame, like stay in the freedom of that? Yeah.

Well, what's interesting is what's wild is most of us began to receive negative or positive messages that had a negative undertone about our bodies when we were kids. And what you know about kids having sweet kiddos is kids cannot accept or reject a message that has spoken to them. They don't have the authority.

And so they just receive it. And so because we are born into that and we grow up into that, then we inadvertently believe this lie that we have to accept any message spoken over our body even after we're not kids. We feel like, right, this comes at me, so I have to receive it.

And that's especially difficult when it's someone we love or someone who may even actually be an authority to us, a parent, even as we're adults or a leader or a pastor or somebody we respect, whether they're speaking about us or they're speaking about themselves or they're speaking about other people, we just, we do the thing that we always did of like, I received this.

And so one of the first things that I learned about messages received about my body is I don't have to accept them is I don't have to accept them. I don't have to receive them. So I have a couple of different options. When someone says something negative or positive about my body that may even actually hit me negative in a way they don't know, I've got options.

So I can courteously and calmly and gently, if I have a relationship with them and I feel like it might help them or serve them, I can say, hey, I know you mean well. That is actually not helpful. And I could tell you my story and tell you why, but it might just help me if you don't say things like that. I can actually just walk away.

I can change the conversation. I can go to them in another moment and say like, hey, again, I know you mean well. I'm not making you the enemy because the enemy of our souls is the enemy. You're only saying what you've heard other people say. I just, I have different options. If I have a friend who's speaking about her body negatively.

Yes. That's so common. And then that even puts you in a weird head space too, when you hear someone else tell their body, when you're looking at them, you're like, okay, if you think that about you, what do you think about me? Like there's so many different ways you can take that.

I had to start, I had to stop a conversation with someone two days ago, who was talking negatively about their body. And I said like, I'm gonna have to pause you right there because you're obviously so much smaller than most of the people who are listening to us. And again, I didn't shame her or embarrass her say it in any kind of way, but like I do want to pause

because we don't want to talk about our bodies like that. So I have a lightweight and I have a not as lightweight and it depends again on the relational equity I have with them. So the lightweight is I say, hey, don't talk about my friend like that. Don't talk about my friend like that. And when I say that, it just kind of cuts the conversation

and it helps her hear like, right, I was just doing that. Because again, our friends, our family, the people we're speaking to, they're not the enemy. The enemy of our souls is the enemy. Or I can go a little more low and a little more humble and maybe in a more neutral moment and say, I want to give it to you straight. Every time you talk about your thighs, every time you talk about your thighs,

every time you talk about your wrinkles, every time you talk about how you've gained weight, not only does it break my heart because I feel like you're just missing out on who God made you to be, but also it actually makes me feel shame about me because I don't want to think about my thighs like that. I don't want to think about my size like that.

I don't want to think about my wrinkles like that. I want to bless my body. And I'll tell you, Sadie, one of my favorite things about this is that since I've started to teach other women, like this is how we can do this, is women will do it back to me. So if I think I'm saying something

that's like chill or no big deal, like, you know, I'm over 40. So if I'll be like, oh my Lord, my forehead is like really, it's really got some stuff going on. Or like my eye crinkles are just moving today. You know, my friends'll be like, oh my Lord, my forehead is like really, it's really got some stuff going on. Or like my eye crinkles are just moving today. You know, my friends will be like, don't talk about my friend like that. And I'll be like,

word. Amen. Amen. Received. I love that. It's so true though. It's so interesting because when you're talking about yourself like that, you don't think it's gonna hurt somebody else.

You're really, you're not intending it to even, you're just, you feel that about yourself and you're sharing it, whether you're sharing it because you really believe it, whether you're sharing it because you need affirmation and are searching for affirmation from someone else to say it or whatever. But what it does do, because we're all women

and you are thinking about yourself, is like, I was never thinking about your thighs till you said it. And now that you're saying that, now I should think about my thighs. It doesn't make you start thinking about yourself is like, I was never thinking about your thighs. So you said it. And now that you're saying that, now I should think about my thighs. It doesn't make you start thinking about their thighs. It makes you start thinking about your thighs. And so I think that is like something that

you don't really think about a lot, but it is something to be intentional about because not only is it not right or fair to you, but even to your friend who's listening, because it sets it up for comparison and like makes you feel like you need to work on something. Okay, mamas, let's be real. Finding shows that you can actually trust

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with the code WOWHOA to get your first month for free. One thing that I think is so beautiful about when you share your story and you've said this before is that you don't share the details of your disorder because when you heard the details that's actually what gave you like the guidelines for how to do it. Talk a little bit about that like even in people opening up and what they're struggling, like even in people opening up in what they're struggling with, like, how do we open up to the right people to get help

but not like share so much with other people in our disorder that it makes, gives ideas for other people to step into that? Does that make sense? Yeah. It's a tricky one. And as much as I don't want people to feel shame about their body image,

I don't want women to feel shame about anything. So, I don't want women to feel shame about anything. So if you're someone who you're hearing that and you're thinking like, oh, I have done this before, I've shared the details or, you know, I've spoken negatively about my body again and again and again. Number one, I would just say shame off you. Yes, it's good.

What actually changes the world is when we change our behavior and our thought patterns and our language and the people around us see it. So shame off you, first of all, there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. But that being said, it is difficult, it is difficult to know who you can share what you're going with, who you can confess.

And I would never want another woman to say like, well, I don't know who I can talk to about it. So I'll just keep it in the dark. I just won't talk about it. And in that case, I will say like, definitely a good boundary line is if you have another friend who you know is struggling with body image issues, she may not be the best person to pull you out.

You may be able to say like, hey, let's fight for each other. Let's read Breaking Free from Body Shame together or any book that you feel like might serve you. It doesn't have to be mine. Let's read it together so we can encourage each other, but let's be really careful not to glorify our sin in a way or glorify what feels broken or heavy for us

in a way that might make it look appealing to one another or to anyone else. And yeah, that was such a priority for me because I did actually learn how to do disordered things hearing someone else almost almost absolutely inadvertently giving me a tutorial. So when I wrote Breaking Free from Body Shame, I had to bring in clinical help because I said, I want this to be safe for someone who maybe is struggling so much that they might be in a facility. And one of the most beautiful things that God has done is that I've now heard of and I've actually traveled to different eating disorder facilities where they are using the book. And I'm so thankful to say it feels that safe for them.

But I had different clinical and professional perspectives weigh in on the book to say, does this feel safe for someone who might be in the thick of it? Or maybe on the alternate end, someone who might just be struggling with their body image after a baby or feeling insecure about some brokenness in the body that they're dealing with. But another tip that I would just give for anyone

who maybe is struggling is really, really pay attention to the different words that you use that again are totally acceptable in our culture. So my kids know like the F word in our house is F-A-T. Like we do not say the F word. We don't say the F word about our dog. We don't say the F word about our dog. We don't say the F word about us certainly about a human. And we just don't.

But on the flip side, the other word we don't use is S-K-I-N-Y. Because in so many other ways, like people have felt attacked by that word. But I just taught them like, let's don't use these labels. We don't need to. They make people feel a certain way. And so I would even say just watching the language you use to talk about your body or other people's body. And of course, yeah, maybe some of the more broken things that you do. And one last thing on

this, I know I'm just like going for it. So helpful. No, I'm like, thank you. Keep going. But a lot of people, when they start a step into freedom, they do realize that a lot of the rhythms or patterns that they do are actually disordered. So this could be as simple as maybe like pouring food or pouring water on your food when you want to convince yourself not to eat anymore. Or saying language, for example, now my whole family knows, all my friends know, things we don't say around the holidays is like,

well, we gotta exercise to work this off. Because we don't earn food and we don't pay for food. Like we don't punish our bodies to be able to nourish our bodies. And so even you might find that like, the more you step into freedom, you'll realize like a lot of this is actually rooted in shame.

So true. And so I would just say grace and peace as you realize a lot of this may be in there. And I hope, I hope for me I'm always learning new things in that way. Not so that I live scared and small and like, oh gosh, I can't say the right thing, but I just continually want God to be transforming the way that I talk in all my kingdom-minded perspective. So true, that is so good and so helpful. And I remember back in the day, whenever I was kind of walking through that

and walking out of it, there was a friend of mine, one of my greatest friends, but she was also struggling with it. And I remember thinking, okay, this is a safe place because we both struggle, but we struggled in different ways. And I shared something and I actually said how much I weighed. And she was like, I can't hear that.

Like, I can't hear that number. And I didn't mean to say it for her to feel that way, obviously. But it was my first wake-up call and like, whoa, like, what I'm saying, like, you're hearing it in the context of where you're at, and that's messing with your mind. And she had actually just gotten rid of her skill. Like I didn't know the context of what she was walking through and so, yes, like words matter.

Numbers are triggering, things like that. Even sharing it with a close friend, like you have to discern who and where and what's right. And like you said, if someone else is struggling, that might not be the person that y'all confide in one another, because oftentimes you unintentionally can bring each other back into those patterns. Not that you can't, I mean, we also encourage each other

so much and we walk out of it together. But there was just that little time in history where I felt like we were both too vulnerable to where we were at. And then also, I remember in a dating relationship, whenever I was really struggling, I had not brought this up to anybody that I was struggling,

but I had developed a lot of different patterns and I didn't even realize it was necessarily unhealthy because in my mind, I had convinced myself that it was just me trying to be fit and trying to be healthy and all this stuff, but it had really gotten into more disordered patterns. But because I didn't recognize it from a word I had heard, like anorexia, like bulimia,

I didn't notice that like, oh, this is so unhealthy. Well, I really got down this bad path. No one knew, no one had called me out, no one said anything. So I was like, okay, I guess it's fine. And no one had really commented on me losing weight, whatever, people just said I looked good. And I actually shared with my boyfriend, I was like, hey, I think I might be struggling with this.

And I mentioned this disorder. And he goes, yeah, I've noticed. And that was all he said. And it affirmed it, as if, oh, you've noticed. And I should be doing it, because maybe I look better now. And why would you notice, and you didn't help me? You didn't say, oh, you don't have to think like that. You don't have to live like that

because you're beautiful. It was none of that. It was just like, I've noticed. Then that sent me down like a whole, like another year of doing the same thing because then I thought, okay, well, people are noticing and they're not worried for me. They think this is good.

I look good, I've whatever. And that was such a toxic time in my life. And so I say it to say, using wisdom on who you share it to does matter so much. And you can discern in your own life who that needs to be. And maybe it's a counselor, like a true outside source that is trusted, who can truly hear what you're saying and speak truth into it.

Obviously a Christian counselor is who I would recommend. Pastor, mentor, mother, like you'll know in your life who that needs to be. But it is so, so important to that point. Gosh, I'm just thinking there's so many different directions we could go from here. But I do want to talk about this aspect because you have a daughter. I have two daughters. I feel like that did change a lot of the way that I talked about myself, even the way that I got dressed in front of them, the way I do my makeup.

Because even the other day, my daughter, she's like, why do you wear makeup? And you're faced with this question of like, okay, why do I wear makeup? What am I going to say to her? Because this really matters. And I was like, you know, I wear makeup because Why do I wear makeup? And what am I going to say to her? Because this really matters. And I was like, you know, I wear makeup

because I think it's really fun. I think it's fun to get dressed up. And you know, that's something about being a girl that we get to do that's super fun and creative. And she was like, yeah, it is really fun. I was like, it is. Said nothing about the way that I look. Said nothing about makes me pretty.

Nothing like that. It's just really fun. And we get to do this as girls and it's just a fun way to be creative. But like, then I'm asking myself, but is that really why, you know? Do I wear makeup because it's just fun or do I actually sometimes feel like, no, I need to

because I look better and because people respond to me differently when I do, you know what I mean? Like it challenges you when you have a daughter that you're raising and you want her to have such a healthy perspective of herself because you see her for how beautiful she is. How has that changed your language and the way that you'd think about all of this?

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and have one less thing to worry about this summer. Oh, it's changed everything for me. So when I first began this kind of journey for myself, my youngest son is 12, so my daughter is five years older than him. So she was about five when like for me, something shifted and I was like, no more. I'm not living like this anymore.

And so I would say, most of her sentient memories of me are either getting free or free. And that being said, I don't know which came first, the chicken or the egg. This is what I'm gonna say about my daughter. Her name is Gloria Ana Eloise, we call her Glory. I don't know if Glory is free because I got free, or if I'm free because Glory's free.

I don't know, I don't know who would have influenced more. But she is the most free woman I know. Wow, that's so cool. And it makes me so hopeful for the women coming after us. It just makes me incredibly, incredibly, incredibly hopeful for the women coming after us and the women who are at least afforded, if not the opportunity to be in safe spaces

regarding their body image from birth, but even the opportunity to be in safe spaces regarding their body image from birth, but even like the opportunity to be in spaces where they see people having their minds changed and renewed by God's word and developing a kingdom-minded perspective. But so yeah, it changed everything for me because all of a sudden, I felt almost in a way how I assume the Lord feels about us.

Because I wanted to stand in front of a bus for her and anyone that would speak negatively over her in any way, shape or form. And I wanted to be like, you are gonna have to come through me if you wanna speak death over her. And then I realized like that is actually what Jesus did for us. To say like the lion of the tribe

of Judah speaks over our bodies and says, this is good. I made it good. No one can change it. No neglect, no obsession, no brokenness of the world, no pain, no sickness, no aging, no nothing can change what he has made good. And so I think just feeling that for her made me feel No aging, no nothing can change what He has made good. And so I think just feeling that for her made me feel it even a little bit more for myself.

Yeah, so true. That is the same for me. I was like, whoa, okay, this is how I feel about her because this is how God made her and feels about her. This is how God feels about me. Why am I like this? You know, like reading like Psalms 139, you're reading it through the context of your daughter.

And you're like, oh, but that's for me. Like I was in together in my mother's womb. Like, it just all of a sudden hits you in such a different way. And it's so beautiful how, I love how you say, I don't know what came first, like, but like all of a sudden it's like, man, you find that freedom and there's nothing more than you want for your kids

to believe that they're good, to believe that they're all that God made them to be. And then you're like, I'm the kid, I'm the child of God too. So I wanna believe that for myself. It's so good. You've talked about learning the theology of the body and how that was really important for you.

Can you speak a little bit to that? Because a lot of people listening might be like, what is it? Like, what did you learn that like changed your perspective so much? Okay, let me hit some high points. Let me, I'm gonna see if I can limit it to three. There are probably three really important things

that I learned about the body that maybe I had actually been like overtly told the opposite in Christian spaces, or maybe I had just subtly believed differently. So the first is this, this is life changing. Let's get ready. Get ready. Gear up. Everybody lean in. The first is this, and you probably already know this, a lot of your listeners might be like, duh, but I did not know this, that in God's Word, specifically when we're talking about the New Testament, there are two words that are translated the same

in the English language that actually mean, you know, really different things, and that's the Sarx and the Soma. So the difference between the Sarx and the Soma is the flesh and the body. And the reason why this is really important that we know the difference between the Sarx and the Soma, because sometimes they're translated both as flesh or body in the New Testament, is

that the Sarcs is our sinful nature, our flesh. That's what it's often called as our flesh, our sinful nature. It actually has nothing to do with the physical body, which is the Soma. So the Sarc is this part of us that wants darkness, that wants brokenness, that is not who God made us to be. It's a broken desire for something that is not going to fulfill us. And on the contrary, the soma, the Greek word for body, is soma, and it's good. It's a good thing. It's a beautiful thing.

God made the soma. He called it good. In fact, God makes the whole earth, and He says like, good, this is good, this is good, this is good. But back in Genesis 1, when He makes man and woman, He says, this is muchness good. That's the word He uses. He says, it's very good. The Hebrew word there means muchness good. And He says, it's just so good. So why this is different and why this is important, and one of the first things for me that I learned in the theology of the body is because a lot of times

when we are hearing that the flesh is bad, the flesh is bad, the flesh is bad, we are receiving this inadvertent message, like your body is bad. So this impacts us because we believe that our hunger is like a part of our sarks, our physical hunger, our need for sleep would be like, we start thinking that that sarks,

that's like some weakness in us. And so we're taught again subtly and overtly that if you're hungry and you subdue that, you're somehow strong. You're subduing your flesh. But your soma's need for food is good. Wow. Isn't this wild?

This is so good, I've actually never heard this before. My mind is like blown. Your soma, your need for, your soma's need for food, for sleep, for water, for care, for nourishment, all good. Whoa. We get this intertwined with the sarx and we believe like, okay, well, if I can,

if I can be hungry and not eat, then that makes me strong. That makes me even maybe self-controlled, which is not actually what it's about. If I need sleep and I push past it, I'm strong. I'm subduing my flesh. You are not in fact, because the flesh wants ungodly things and rest is not an ungodly thing.

Food nourishment for your body is not an ungodly thing. Now, can a desire for food be an ungodly thing? For sure, we hear all about gluttony, but that is so different and we have to know the difference. So I would say that is one of the first major things that I learned, like the sarx is one thing and the soma is another.

That is so good and I see now why you got ready to deliver that. I'm like, yeah, that's life changing actually. Yeah, your soma's good. God loves your soma. He made your soma and he loves the needs of your soma. The sark's bad. We don't wanna mess with that.

We wanna put it to death. We wanna kill it. But it's- Yeah, it's one question. Like this, I'm probably gonna botch this because I can't even think of where the scripture is. But you know, it's Paul and he says something about like, for no one would ever, like,

it's talking about taking care of, like maybe it's about loving someone, like love yourself for no one would ever, like, it's talking about taking care of, like, maybe it's about loving someone, like, love yourself, or no one would ever mistreat yourself or, like, not love your body. Like, he says that. And I've always been like, that's so interesting, because he's like, well, no one would ever not love yourself. Like, no one would ever not love your own body.

And I was like, that's so weird, because now, like, so many people don't love their own body. But you breaking that context down, I was like, man, that's probably why in the day it wasn't as confusing because those two things were so different, where now those two things are so blurred. And so it makes so much sense why we would think those things are bad,

because we're equating them with our flesh, and it's such a different thing. And also, like you said, you're kind of praised for those things as if like you have good discipline. Like, oh, I put the food away even whenever I was hungry or I didn't go to, I only sleep this many hours or whatever. And it's like, we treat those as like a flex, but actually that's really not even good or healthy or discipline, that's just.

It's certainly not glorifying God if he made our body to have these needs. Interesting. Okay. So cool. Now I can't wait for number two. Okay. Number two is this. And that is that the body, the soma, actually really matters to God. And so I would say this was a message

that we were hearing the negative, the antidote to this, the wrong version of this a lot more maybe in the 90s and the early 2000s. I feel like we've thankfully moved on a little bit, but in churches when I was like a teenager in youth group, you know, there was this kind of message of like, you know, your body is all just gonna fade away and you're gonna go to heaven

and this is not even gonna matter. The body's not even gonna matter. The body doesn't matter. Like your spirit, it's your soul that matters. When actually, again, Genesis to Revelation, the body matters a lot to God. The fact that Jesus came, our friend and savior, embodied actually matters.

And the reason why it matters is because his death and his crucifixion and his resurrection is a crucial, essential part of our faith. And he is still an embodied savior. And in most of our eschatology, we're gonna find that like, we are gonna have new bodies, but we're not gonna like just drift away

and like all of a sudden become heir. We're gonna have resurrected new bodies. The body matters to God. And the reason why this has huge implications is because a lot of Christians, a lot of us can justify harming our bodies or muting the need of our bodies because we're like, well, this doesn't really matter.

Yeah, we don't prioritize. None of this really, it's just a flesh suit. You know what I'm saying? So I can abuse it, I can neglect it, I can treat it poorly, I can hate it, I can say what I want about it, I can do whatever I want to this body because it doesn't really matter, it's my soul that matters.

But what we see biblically is actually like the body, the soul, the mind, they're all one. They're all one. They're all us. And they matter to God. So I would say that would be number two. And then number three, that also has wild implications about like receiving God's compassion when our bodies are broken, you know?

Because the brokenness of Jesus's body also really matters. The third one takes us all the way back to Genesis. So I actually was in an interview for Breaking Free from Body Shame, however many years ago when the book came out. And I remember someone said in an interview, they said, well, this is hard, right? Because there's not body image in the Bible.

Like there's not body shame in the Bible. We don't see body shame in the Bible. And I was like, oh, excuse me, ma'am. Body shame is actually the first sign of brokenness we see in scripture. So what happens when Adam and Eve disobey God and they experience the effects of sin, they immediately cover themselves.

They feel shame. And so this is wildly important because I believe the enemy of our souls knows an incredibly effective way to keep us from experiencing peace, to keep us from experiencing oneness and unity with the Lord, to keep us from experiencing oneness and unity with one another, to keep us believing lives, to keep us from stepping into our callings, to keep us from feeling present, to keep us from believing God's faithfulness and truth over our bodies, to keep us from His compassion and His kindness and His gentleness, is that

if we, if He can get us in this one area, if He can get us hating our bodies and feeling shame about them, it's over. Wild. All, it has just massive implications to how we experience God, how we experience one another, how we experience the world, how we step into what He's given us to do. And so I would just say like the theology of the body matters

and the enemy of our souls will always be attacking our bodies with shame. And yet, if the Son has set you free, you are free indeed. There is freedom. And we can actually experience, if not complete freedom, a very beautiful version of it, the sight of heaven. That is so great.

And it's so true. And just to encourage the listeners out there, this is coming from two women who have experienced a lot of body shame in the past and who walk in freedom today. That doesn't mean that there's still not days you struggle. I mentioned even with pregnancy, I fight the struggle of like,

okay, like so many people have said this, so you wanna stay looking good, but then I'm pregnant. I'm going to get bigger. That's what I'm supposed to do. And it's like, you get in your head, even though it has nothing, like this is obviously the most beautiful reason to grow. But even people's comments in this stage

can make you question. My kids actually helped me so much with it, like you said, because you think about what you want for them. And even with my C-section scar, you know, that can be a tough one sometimes, because it's like the most beautiful reason you have a scar. That's why what brought your baby into the world. But it is a big scar on your body, you know?

And I'm about to probably do another C-section and have the scar again, but what's so beautiful is my daughter loves my scar. And she's always like, now that she, you know, my oldest can talk, she's like, and is that where the baby's gonna come out of? And is that where we came out of? And she like loves talking about it. And she's like, can I that she, you know, my oldest can talk, she's like, and is that where the babysitter come out of? And is that where we came out of?

And she like loves talking about it. And she's like, can I see where we came out of? She loves to see the scar. She loves that scar. So it's become like such a beautiful thing for me to share. And so like, man, you know, Jesus says, and this is not to take this out of context, but like to be like the little children, you know?

And when I think about the way they see themselves, and they look in the mirror, and they just smile, and they just love what they see, and Honey just twirls her hair, because she loves her hair, and talks about me as her mom, and my scars, and my self-like, I'm like, oh God, give me the eyes to see myself the way that you see me,

the way that I would see myself as a child, and just that innocence. And so I feel like what's so cool is yes, years ago I walked in a lot of disorder and now I truly do walk in freedom. I am so happy with my body because of what it has done, how it has served, the different things and just the power that God made it to be.

And so I just want to encourage the listener, like, just because this is so normal to you right now does not mean this is your story forever. No. There was a time where I thought, well, I ever go a day not thinking about these things. And I don't think about those things anymore. Like, you really can break free of the thought pattern.

You can break free of the eating patterns. You can find freedom in this. And that is going to come through the way God sees you, you learning that. Friends, counsel, some people might need to actually go into a facility. I've had several friends who have actually gone and gotten treatment and there is no shame

in any avenue like that. If you need that, do that. This has just been so encouraging. I do want to give you an opportunity to talk to the listener right now who this really has been a life-changing conversation. Everything you said about the theology of the body, everything you said about how God's easy,

everything you even pointed out about how the enemy would work. They're like, whoa, it all makes so much sense. Yet for years, they've thought this way. Their whole friend group acts this way. They talk like this every day. What's like the first step for someone who's like, I'm ready to change,

what do I do with all this information? That's such a great question. So the first step is this, is that I wanna say this upfront because you might be feeling great while you listen to this interview. And then you might turn it off YouTube or turn it off on your phone

and immediately go into a situation that makes you not feel great. And one of the first things that God showed me about breaking free from body shame is that it doesn't start with how I feel. So I don't have to feel free to act free. I don't have to feel free to live free. And so you might like finish listening

and turn it off and move forward and look down and think, the problem is I still feel like I hit my body. I still feel disappointed in my body. I still feel broken. And I would just say like grace and peace to you, your feelings, you are not crazy. You live under the effects of a fallen world and you have been again, overtly and subtly told incredible,

incredibly broken and hard things about your body. So it is natural and normal to feel those things now. The feelings don't have to guide us forever. They don't have to become facts in our life. And so I would say, if I could hand you a pathway, what I believe, kind of watching how people change over time in a variety of different ways and different areas is that we have to have our mind renewed.

We have to actually know truths. We have to say, like, I used to believe this, and now I believe this. It's what Tim Keller calls, like, decadakization. We gotta be decadacized. We gotta say, I used to think this, and now I believe this is what Tim Keller calls like decadakization. We got to be decadacized. We have to say, I used to think this and now I think this. And so I would say get in a safe place where you can have your mind changed. Whether that's reading a book, whether that's going on your own journey in God's Word and saying, I want to just dive into God's Word and I want to know what he says about it. Do that. It doesn't

have to be my book. It doesn't have to be anybody else's book. You can go straight to I want to just dive into God's word and I want to know what he says about it. Do that. It doesn't have to be my book. It doesn't have to be anybody else's book. You can go straight to God's word. He's a much better communicator than I am. And so I would say have your mind renewed by truth. And then the second thing is, then you're going to have to act free

before you feel free. You're going to have to start to speak truth about your body before you feel truth about your body. You're going to have to look in the mirror and say like, this is a good body, even if you don't feel that way. You're gonna have to walk away from the camera when people are taking the pictures, even when you want to walk toward it.

You're gonna have to like put on the shorts, even though you maybe like me have really extreme veins in your legs. You're gonna have to just put on the shorts and say like, that's what my legs look like. I'm gonna have to live free before I feel free. And guess what? You're gonna set some other women free

when they see your veins and realize like, oh, that's what a lot of legs look like. It's actually so true. They're kind of beautiful when you start to look at them. I'm like, my legs are a piece of art. This third pregnancy gave me those veins too already. I'm like, wow, okay, that's new. But thank you for that perspective.

Thank you for that freedom for me. My kids are always like, wow, it's like a painting. I'm like, it is, in fact. It is, but thank you for that perspective. That's what my kids like to trace. Thank you for that freedom for me, yeah. My kids are always like, wow, it's like a painting. I'm like, it is, in fact. It is, it's a work of art, thank you. But yeah, you're gonna have to have your mind renewed, then you're gonna have to live free, and then you'll feel free. But if you don't feel free right now,

it's not because there's something wrong with you. Yeah. It's not because you're broken, but the feelings don't have to be facts. Oh, that's so good. The feelings do not have to be facts. And I think that's where my freedom comes from now. That doesn't mean I still don't get to be facts. Oh, that's so good. The feelings do not have to be facts. And I think that's where my freedom comes from now. That doesn't mean I still don't get feelings of that.

100%. That doesn't become a fact. Like, I don't let it go there, because I know truth. It has to come through like this shield of truth that goes, actually, not true. You know, the belt of truth is on me. So it's like, I can't let that live here. And so I think that's the difference.

It's not that you don't have the feelings. It's that you know truth. You have the facts. And so you walk in that live here. And so I think that's the difference. It's not that you don't have the feelings. It's that you know truth. You have the facts. And so you walk in that daily freedom. That was so helpful how you broke that down. And she's being very humble by saying, you don't have to read my book. You don't have to read her book, but you probably should.

Because if you want more advice like this, she wrote a whole book on this. She dove into this and put all of her resources out there. And I want to say, because I think you might have mentioned when I was like, I've never heard that before, I think you might have mentioned that concept between the two last time you were on the podcast or maybe I heard it.

But you know, it's funny, like even hearing it again, it hit me in like a whole new way. And so you can hear these things that you might know or you might've heard, but it hits you in such a new way when you need to hear those things. And we're actually linking in the show notes today, her book, and I think a Bible study, I mean, that you did that you could actually do with your friends. You can do by yourself, whatever way that you feel like freedom might be

a better fit for you to do by yourself or with friends. But I just encourage you so much click on that, get that book, get that Bible study, dive into it today. You're not alone on this journey of freedom. And Jess, I'm just so thankful for the resources you have put out there. get that Bible study, dive into it today. You're not alone on this journey of freedom. And Jess, I'm just so thankful for the resources you have put out there. It's so needed.

Thank you for coming all the way to Louisiana to talk about this. And it just shows your heart and it's so beautiful. Thank you for your leadership and your courage for sharing your story too. Thank you, friend. Thanks for watching!