WHOA That's Good Podcast - Is It Really a Dating Dealbreaker or Am I Being Too Picky? | Sadie Robertson Huff | Ben & Donna Stuart

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

Ben likes to run, and Donna doesn't, but if he had made that the issue while they were dating, they wouldn't be married today! He learned that he didn't *really* care about his girlfriend loving to run like he did, so it wasn't a dealbreaker! Ben Stuart's book, "Single, Engaged, Dating, Married," played an important part in the beginning of Sadie and Christian's dating relationship. Today, Ben and his wife, Donna, join Sadie to talk about all things singleness, how they started dating, how you know if the person you're dating is "the one," and why, in a new update of the book, Ben included a chapter on breaking up. Sadie talks about a defining moment for her when she fully intended to break up with Christian and how his reaction and statement completely changed her heart—she went from wanting to break up to wanting to marry him. Donna and Ben both share about their time apart when Ben asked for a pause and a letter-writing part for their relationship—and what that eventually proved to them both about the other. If you're in any of these phases, you won't want to miss this encouraging conversation about godly ways to approach finding a spouse. This Episode of WHOA That's Good is Sponsored By: https://drinkag1.com/whoa — Get a lululemon Exclusive Everywhere Belt Bag and AG1 Welcome Kit, with your first subscription, while supplies last with your lululemon membership. https://liberty.edu/Sadie — Get your application fee WAIVED when you start your future with Liberty University today! https://drinklmnt.com/whoa — Get a free LMNT Sample Pack with any purchase! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody? Happy Well That's Good Wednesday. I hope you're having a great week, but y'all, it is about to get so much better because we have two of my favorite people on the podcast. And I am like not going to lie, some major flex for me to be able to say this might be the first podcast they have ever done together as a couple, which is just so fun,

because they both been on my podcast, I think twice. We have Ben and Donna Stewart on together. So welcome guys. We did it. We made it. We did it together. All of us look at us. You mean, y'all, it really is funny.

Like so many people are so intrigued by y'all's relationship. Do y'all know that? No. No. No. It's true. Okay, when me and Christian see y'all have passion together, y'all are sitting in front of us and every now and then

it's like give each other a hug or something. I'm like, that's so sweet. That's so cute to see them be together and so cute. I think because we read single day engagedried, it helped our relationship be what it is. So then to see the author and his beautiful wife, who's also our friends and mentors, to see their love and y'all's love for the Lord, y'all's love for each other, your family, it's just sweet.

And so I'm so glad to get, for other people to get to know y'all as a couple too. I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah, that's good. I'm happy to hear that. It's real. It's not fake. We didn't like makeup.

So we do like each other. We do have a fun story. It is kind of wild and crazy and fun, but yeah, it's crazy that we haven't really done this together much. I think, I don't know. I mean, maybe Sadie's going to open a door for us that we haven't really done this together much. I think, I don't know. I mean, maybe Sadie's going to open a door for us that we've never, I mean, something new. Hey, everyone watch it happen. Ben and Dada are going to be in the podcast trail after

this as a couple. It's going to be awesome. But no, I'm so excited. You know, it's funny you mentioned your story. We're talking a lot lot about y'all's story. But I have to ask you, been writing Single Dating Engaged Married, was that written based off of your experience or was that written a lot of hindsight, I gained a lot of wisdom, this is what I wish we would have done it, how we would have done it,

or is a lot of it truly true to how you and Donna went from Single Dating to engaged to married? Yeah, I would say it came out of, for me, three things. I'll do it fast. One is when I was single, I was the last of my friends to get married. And I had to sort of develop my own theology of like, what is singleness for?

And so that first chapter came, I wrote it not as a chapter of a book, I wrote it as a manifesto for single Ben, of like, what am I here on earth to do? And I just wanted that clarity for my own life. And so that came from my personal life. And then a lot of the dating material, I never set out to write a dating book.

We just had the privilege of standing in front of college students for over a decade. And it was the decade when all this technological shift was happening. So you think about when we first showed up at Breakaway, Facebook had just come out, which sounds crazy, but then we just watched the act of dating get so much more complicated for people. So it came out of that concern. But then yes, when I sat down to write it, my college buddies thought it was hilarious because all my college dating was a complete mess.

But I really felt good about the way we dated. I was like, I would tell people to do it the way we did it because it came out of conviction. So, that's a long way to answer your short question, but it came from those three places. Really wanting to honor the Lord with my singleness, a real compassion for young people who I'm watching struggle with some real challenges. But then, yeah, a that we, I do think we did it right. That's sweet. I love that.

I think that's really, I think that's really cool to hear. And I think it's also cool to hear you say like, I did not do it right other times. And then when John and I met, we did it right. Like it was a beautiful way to do it. And it's obviously blessed many people. I mean, Christian and I, Christian had never dated a girl in a pure way before. He had never dated a girl in a Christian context before me. And so he really leaned on those pages

to understand how do I even do this, you know? And so like, what a gift, you know, what a gift. It's so cool now that we're going to get to kind of go into your stories. It's interesting. And I just want to say this, because we just ran the data of this podcast, like what podcasts do the best, what performance. Almost 50% of our top podcasts were anything to do with relationships, dating, marriage,

sex, anything around the umbrella of relationship was 50% always like the highest ones. And so, I mean, this topic is something that so many people need help navigating and I'm super grateful for y'all's voices in it. So I'm just gonna start at singleness. Tell me both of you guys, how y'all treated singleness back in the day and what are ways you would have done it differently?

What are things that you're like, hey, I actually like how I did it in that area? Yeah. We both kind of were a little bit older whenever we got married. So, and according to like the time that we got- Yeah, now it's the average. Now it's average, but I was 26 when I got married

and Ben was 28. So that was considered like older. So we were both single for a minute. And yeah, I would say that, you know, you're kind of always like looking around and seeing who's doing the same things that you're doing and care about the things you're doing or care about the things that you care about.

And for me, I was surrendered into the ministry relatively early in life. And so my senior high school into college, into past that was all just trying to do ministry. And so, I was seeing a lot of guys do ministry too, but it never was working. And it was interesting because it's just like, I felt kind of stronger than them and I didn't want to be the stronger one.

Yeah. I kind of wanted to be led in that. And I just hadn't met anybody who was like that. And I wasn't drawn to anyone like that. I traveled with the band and all my band was like brothers. And so they were, it was great. I had a great community. I loved, loved, loved, loved to serve with the gifts that I've been given. So I was just, I felt like the Lord just had me on a mission. And yes, I dated here and there. And yes, we both came with backgrounds that we had to ultimately talk about later. But I think relatively, I had a heartbeat for the Lord and I wanted to bless Him with my life. And so, yeah, when I met Ben, when I saw Ben for the first time, I was like, whoa, who's that?

And then we just kept meeting again and again. And I was like, gosh, I really hope it's this one because nobody is like him whom I've met so far. Well, that's so sweet. Yeah, I was not thinking that. That's not about Donna. I would just, you know, I think it's not just I think this is true. I mean, there are two, the two greatest longings of the human heart are intimacy and impact.

Right? I want to be known and cared for and loved, and I want to be a part of something bigger than me and worthy of my life. Right? I mean, everybody wants those things, belonging and mattering. You want both. And the belonging piece can be deep friendships and community. But I mean, you even look in Genesis 1, it's friendship and community, but it's also that male-female romance. I mean, that's coming out early in our Bible. But I realized for me, all my dating relationships were such chaos, and

I didn't have the awareness to know a lot of that was coming from some broken wiring in my own head, from family of origin stuff that I hadn't really processed. So I just realized, you know what, I'm going to go hard on the purpose side. If I'm created to know God, I'm just going for it, man. I can't figure the girl thing out. I'm going hard at this. And so that 1 Corinthians passage where Paul was like, singleness exists to secure an undistracted devotion to the Lord. I'm like, if that's what singleness is for, then that's what I want to do. I want to get real good at leveraging the freedom singleness allows. And so I wasn't sure if I was gonna go

in the business world or go into ministry. I ended up going into ministry. But as I did that, I remember, Sadie, the first sermon I ever preached in ministry. My pastor came to me and said, "'Hey, I want you to preach on a Sunday.'" I was like, okay, and he said, "'I want you to preach on parenting.'"

And I was like, what? Like, I'm 21. I'm like, would you say I had a really hypothetical child? So I listened to a Tony Evans sermon and tried to preach like Tony Evans, which was a huge mistake. But the thing I did right was I started looking at the couples in our church and particularly I was looking at their children. And I saw who has healthy, well-adjusted children.

And I went to those parents and asked each one if I could interview them. And what I realized in retrospect, asking me to do a sermon on parenting was ridiculous, but God did it in his own sense of humor to get me in front of really godly, healthy, mature couples in our church. I sat down with a pen and paper, interviewed them all. I didn't even realize I was doing Philippians 3. Scope out those who walk according to the pattern you've given us and imitate their example. And so, by my mid-twenties, I suddenly was surrounded by

mentors with really healthy relationships. And so, I was chasing the Lord, building a youth ministry, and the Lord was surrounding me with godly wisdom, so I'd be ready for a healthy relationship. That is very cool. I don't know about you, but I love spring season. Everything feels so fresh. And we are finally getting some sunlight back in our life. With longer days and outdoor activities coming back around,

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welcome kit with your first subscription while supplies last with your Lululemon membership. So make sure to go check out drinkag1.com slash woe to get this Lululemon offer. Again that's drinkag1.com slash woe. You know, people ask me about singleness in, you know, asking to give advice, and I always have to be honest and say, I did not do singleness well. I wish that I would have treated it like that. And that's why your book was really impactful for me reading it, even though I had started dating Christian by the time I read it, but I opened up my mind to like, okay, I tried to just rush past the single on a stage.

I just always wanted to be in a relationship, always wanted to be dating someone. Like never, I didn't want to be single, but it's actually so interesting because I look back at the time I was single and the way that I devoted myself to the Lord was so different. I just, you know. You're not distracted. I'm not in the chaos of the confusion of the early days of a relationship

when it's not the one and all the different things that come with that. And I always really try to encourage people, like, please take that time and bringing up the verse that you brought up. It's actually so funny because at Christian and I's wedding, my grandpa, Pebble Field, he opened it up with a prayer. He was supposed to just do a prayer, okay? We should have really nailed down. You're supposed to just a prayer. Yeah. We didn't expect the side sermon he was going to give. And we get down to the aisle, and I just walked down, so nervous, So many people there. And he goes, brother Paul said it is better not to marry.

At least you burn with passion. And I was like, why that one? Why do we have to read that one? Like that's great for the single in this stage of your life. Don't read it at our wedding. Like let's go further. First birthday in 13, like come on. And so, it's so funny.

But I do remember actually reading, during your book, it kind of caused a little pause in Christianized relationship, and we took three days not to talk to each other, and I was praying through that verse, like, God, if I would be more devoted to you alone, then I will be willing to lay down this relationship. But if Christian and I together could reach more people, could make more impact, could, would I be a better person,

all the different things, then give me the peace to continue, you know? And I remember Christian being so scared during that time, because I thought he was praying the same thing. He said he was worried for what the Lord was saying to me during my prayer. He was distracted by what my prayers were being answered by. But I think he was- No, this is not for me, Lord. I think he was praying too.

But I do remember genuinely praying that prayer. And so even though I was dating Christian at the time, I read that, it did give me that pause to say, okay, what would singleness look like for me and is that something I actually need to pursue longer or is Christian the one? And is this, should we further our relationship? And just bringing more purpose and meaning into it.

Because the truth is, most people listening to this podcast, like what you just said is such good advice and what most people honestly have not thought about. Like they think about dating all the time, they think about singleness. They never thought about like, why do I want this? Why do I desire this?

What kind of impact do I wanna have? What is a relationship for? Other than just like the feelings that you wanna have or the, you know, what you've seen and what you wanna be in. So I just think that this is so good because it's drawing people to think deeper about why we do care so much about relationships. Why is it the number one podcast? Why are people so good because it's drawing people to think deeper about why we do care so much about

relationships. Why is it the number one podcast? Why are people so intrigued about it? Because it's what our hearts desire and long for. And so take us to when you guys started dating. Everyone loves a good dating story. Ben, I know you weren't thinking what Donna was thinking, but what were you thinking and how did it begin to escalate? Yeah, well, I'll tell you what I was thinking. I was like, my eyes are fixed upon the Lord. You know, and I was great at just studying the Bible. I wanted to mentor. I at first had really resisted being a youth pastor. And then finally I was like, the Lord has let me invest in these kids.

My heart broke for them. God had to melt my heart for these young kids I got to shepherd. And so, I was really loving being their pastor and teaching them the Bible. But in that same season where I'd gotten those mentors in my church, I was also calling youth pastor mentors at other churches. And so in my singleness, I was developing this circle of friendship and a circle of mentors. And then one of those mentors asked me to preach at his church, at his church's youth thing. So we were like sister churches. And it was because of that mentoring that I ended up preaching. I didn't really travel and speak mentoring that I ended up preaching. I didn't really travel and speak, but I ended up speaking at this thing that Donna's band

was leading worship at. And I was there like, I just felt like I was so focused in my life. I wasn't interested in dating. But speaking there once turned into speaking there once a month. And so suddenly I kept getting put in proximity to this girl. And I was really happy with my armor. Like I was at this point where I was like, you can't faze me. But I found myself thinking about her.

And I literally thought of it like an arrow got through the armor kind of thing. I was like, I don't even think about this. I'm trying to say, Lord. But I ultimately had to acknowledge, I think I'm interested believe about this. I'm trying to serve the Lord. But I ultimately had to acknowledge, I think I'm interested in this girl. It doesn't make sense because I know I'm about to leave town. I was looking at seminaries all around the country and I was like, so the timing of this is ridiculous.

But then when I searched my heart, I was like, but I'm not the guy I was a couple years ago, whose dating was always a tragedy waiting to happen. I was like, I think I'm a healthier person. Yeah. And so I sort of slowly, we would go to dinner with our group of people afterwards. And then a big group is going to a movie and I made sure the seat next to me was not taken.

You know, my buddy Chris sat there and I was next to me was not taken. You know, my buddy Chris sat there and I was like, Hey boss, move. You know, like, it was like a late night movie. It was like one of those. It was one of the Lord of the Rings. So it started at midnight and it goes for four hours. Yeah. So we started doing stuff like that and I just had to realize, okay, I'm interested in this person. Now what do we do? And on the mentor side? I'll say this too. I didn't know again My my parents were good at many things. They got divorced when I was young though So I didn't really have a healthy picture in front of me

Yeah, and so when I finally turned to like, okay I am going to now like ask her on dates like this is happening One of the first ones I did was I called a guy that I wanted to be like. I mean, he was like the picture to me of a godly man. Shane Bernard and I had like lived in his basement one summer. And we would just watch him and his family

and we'd go to bed every night. The two of us like kids be like, I wanna be just like Steve. So do I. And Donna and I, I asked her that day and I said, what if I took you rappelling? Very cool. Like kind of a fun date.

And so we went out to Austin and I said, I got a guy who's setting up this whole ropes course thing he's got and he's just hooking us up. But I had called Steve and I was like, dude, will you take us rappelling for this date? And will you just watch us and tell me what you see? Because I want to do this right. us repelling for this date and will you just watch us and tell me what you see because I want to do this right and I don't really trust my own discernment.

Wow. And then it turned out Steve New Dona too. Yeah. And Rodger was like, great job, man. Yeah, well done. It's crazy. That's what's happening to us. We had people who knew us both, but we didn't know each other.

In fact, it was so interesting when, you know, after we started dating and we were like, kind of learning each other's story and how we knew each other. Two times we were in the same room. One time we were at the same table and we didn't see each other. At dinner. There were eight people there and two of them was us and we couldn't, like the Lord would not let us. Never talked. Wow. I was like, yeah, you know, we went to that one and he named it restaurant. I was like, yeah.

And we sat at a round table. He goes, yeah, it was this and that. And I was like, yeah, but you weren't there. He's like, you weren't there. Wow. But we were there. So it's just like the Lord in His goodness, He had mentioned that He, a couple of years prior, wasn't doing okay. A couple couple of years prior, wasn't doing okay.

A couple years prior, I wasn't doing okay. So, literally, God wasn't letting us meet each other until we were okay to meet each other. And we both had grown so much in our walks with the Lord and had gotten really, honestly, I was okay being single. I had gone, you know what, God, you don't owe me anything. Singleness is how I might go out, you know, or you may let me meet somebody and we get married, but that's not a guarantee. And so I had gotten to a place where I was okay. I also got to the place where I didn't want to pursue anybody. I wanted to be pursued. And that's really hard whenever you're leading everything because you're just like, I'm going to do it and I'm going to make it happen. We're going to do this and I'm leading the band and I'm leading this. But what was really

beautiful was whenever I did start showing attention and I was definitely drawn and attracted to Ben, his buddies were like, whatever you do, do not push. You just wait, just wait, just wait. And I was getting that from Ben in a beautiful way too. He just wanted, we were going at the pace that I think was best for both of us, like me not to push and him to take the initiative and to be the one who walked us into the next day. So, and I appreciate, I needed that.

I needed that from my heart. And it's really been great for our marriage. That's so sweet. Yeah, it sets that foundation. I can relate to you a lot, Donna, because I was the same way, like, not even trying to or meaning to would take, like, the leadership role, and that's part of my personality and part of leading LO and leading different things and then like stepping into a relationship, and that would be how it was. And that was really early on whenever I knew Christian was the one, was he was telling me things about the Bible

I had never heard. Like, I was like, what? Like, tell me more about that. And hey, have you listened to this podcast? I haven't. Have you read this book? No, I haven't. Like, started to like lead

even just the conversations we were having. And then I always joke about the time I tried to break out with him and he stopped me. He was like, stop, just stop. And even just him saying, just stop, just stop talking was so attractive to me. Yeah, totally. I know that not everybody would like that.

To me, I was like, wow. And because whenever I pitch an idea, I can pitch an idea. So I'm thinking, I'm breaking up with you for the most godly best reasons of like, we're gonna be too busy and I'm not gonna be the best girlfriend for you because I'm going on tour and I don't wanna, it's your junior year of college and blah, blah, blah. And he's like, stop talking. Like, let's just stop.

And then he's like, you know, says his line, if it's a win for you and if it's a win for the kingdom, it's a win for me. And that's how a relationship is going to be. And I was just like, OK, now instead of breaking up with you, I think I'm going to marry you. But it was like just so like that was what I was craving. But I did need someone like that. Friends, let's talk about Liberty University.

Fan the flame, people. Liberty is a Christian university that's been so important to my family and me. Their mission over the past 50 years has been training champions for Christ. My brothers went there. My sister Bella is still currently taking online classes from Liberty, and it is very near and dear

to our hearts for that reason. I actually also took some online classes from Liberty, and I know you will love it just as much as we have. The experience was so great for all of us. My brother went in person and absolutely loved their campus. My sister's done online high school and then she graduated from college. Now she's getting her master's. So she's obviously had an amazing experience and whenever I had a little extra time on

my hands during the pandemic, I took some classes as well and it was just great for our schedule. So whether you're interested in taking classes online or looking for an in-person experience, Liberty has something for you. With over 350 residential study programs to choose from, Liberty can help anyone turn their passion into a career path. They also have a beautiful 7000 acre campus, city of the art facilities and even Division One sports programs.

Liberty offers a wide range of scholarships and financial assistance to help you achieve your dreams on your budget. And if all that sounds like it's worth a closer look, then Liberty might be the place for you. If you're a transfer student or a high school student, second semester sophomore, junior, or senior, Liberty invites you to check out College for a Weekend. It's a three day event that lets you test drive life as a Liberty student by attending classes, exploring the campus, watching sporting events, and connecting with other students. The next one is coming up April 3rd through 5th, so check it out. To learn more about Liberty University, go to liberty.edu slash Sadie. And because

you're a Woe That's Good Pike podcast listener, you're going to get your application fee waived. So Fran, don't wait, go to liberty.edu slash Sadie now and get started on your future today. Someone did send in a DM and this is a DM we get all the time. It's something we've talked about so many times on the podcast. One of the number one questions we get asked is how do you know when the person is the one? So how did you guys know that y'all were the one for each other?

Yeah, that's a good question. You know, I'll tell you guiding principles, I think, for me, and then you can fill in with color commentary. Color commentary. But, you know, I mentioned a lot of like, you want to be running the same cause, you know, because if you link your life up together with somebody, you go, what direction is your life going? And so that's where I think you've got to get a relationship with God right first.

Because if someone says, I want to honor Jesus, He's my Lord, you don't want to marry someone who says he's not mine. Because whatever you value most in the world will shape your values. And your values will determine what decisions you make, and those decisions build a life. So you go, let's make sure we both really lockstep on the major values. So for me, it wasn't just, I want to marry someone who is technically a Christian. I was like, I want to marry someone who is chasing the Lord. And I think you said it with Christian, what drew you to him is he was a peer to you. You were running at the same pace. You know, you're used to

running and having people follow you, and there's a place for that. You have mentors in front of you and people following you. And sometimes people want to marry someone following them and be like, I'll help save them or I'll help bring them along. You know, you want to be lockstep with someone where you run together, where you are on mission together. And I mean, you look at the one healthy marriage, the one healthy marriage in the New Testament we're presented, it's Priscilla and Aquila, and their names are constantly interchanging in the texts, which is not normal. Normally, like in the disciple list, Peter's always first. Why? Because he was the top guy. With Priscilla and Aquila, you're like,

they were both on mission. They were both running. They were both helping make things happen. And you go, they were peers. And they were running together at the same pace. And then you want to see godly character. Can I trust you? And for me, again, coming from a divorced home, I was kind of shocked to realize, wow, that's the piece that takes time for me. Like it was pretty easy, pretty fast to see Donna was chasing the Lord. But I just realized when you marry someone, you go, do I trust you?

You know, with our money and our children, but with my heart, if I start sharing more of myself with you, do I trust you? And that was a lot of us is, it was kind of, you know, for me, it felt like a bit of an embarrassing thing, how long it took me to trust, you know? Chemistry came fast. Donna was the only girl I knew that could make me laugh

and do it consistently. So I was just like, God, like she's interesting to talk to. I can talk to her for a long time. And we both love the Lord. But where I got stuck is that one. So to answer your question, how do you know? Those are kind of three guiding steps. And then there's some other principles I could say too.

You know, you look at Song of Solomon and you go, their intimacy looked like springtime. Are we helping each other grow? Do I sense in myself a growing sense of commitment? That was the best advice I got from a friend. Everyone would say, oh, you just know. And I'm like, no, you don't just know. How do you know? And he said, Ben, every relationship I was in before, as soon as we had like a disagreement, there was a part of me that was like, I knew this wasn't going to go good. He said, but with what ultimately became his wife, he said,

whenever we had a place of disagreement, I discovered in myself a desire to resolve it. Yeah, there was a fight for that. I want to fight for this. And so we saw that and just like, hey, if there's a disconnect, we want unity. And so a growing sense of commitment, a growing skill of communication to overcome barriers. I think if you don't have those in a relationship, you're not going to make it to marriage. And I think in dating, we saw that. We both want this and we want, and we can resolve our problems in a healthy way.

I also think that we both really wanted each other to be who we fully are in Christ. And like, I didn't want him to not be who he is, and I didn like, I didn't want Him to not be who He is, and He didn't want me to not be who I am. But what we ended up, you know, because we were blending also ministry because we met on stage and I was leading worship and He was teaching. Actually He just started, like, I think it might have been one of the first times outside of your youth group. Pete Slauson Oh, yeah, for sure. Jennifer Snell And the first time I heard him preach, it

was kind of sad. I repent. But basically, what happened was he said, open your Bibles to Genesis 1-1. And I was like, eye roll. Like, I've heard this so many times. But then he taught Genesis. and I was like, never in my life have I heard it taught like that. Just like what you said about Christian, he was pulling things out of the word that you didn't know and it was making you better. Same thing with Ben and I was like, whoa, okay. I don't know how he got there, but I totally agree that that's what it says and I I want to be better, and I want to go back and read my word more. And that is huge.

If he or she in your life, listener, if you see that this person makes you want to go back to the scriptures and go back to God more, that's a good sign. Now, it doesn't mean that they're going to be the one for sure, but it definitely is somebody who looks like somebody you want to be, like somebody you want to be and somebody you want to be with. And so, I wanted to be more in love with my scriptures and

more in love with my God after meeting you. Yeah. That's so true. That's so good. I can say the same thing for us. You know, we, I'm thinking back to a conversation that my friend group had at one point whenever one of our friends went through a breakup. It was kind of an interesting conversation because one of our friends was giving her advice and I was kind of giving her another angle of advice. It was like an interesting conversation.

So basically, our friend went through this breakup and one of our friends was saying to her, I mean, you can't be too picky, you know? And that is 100% true. There are a lot of friends that have walked through and like, you are being way too picky. Like, there are some of those things you have to let go. You know, your list is way too long, way too tight, like a little unrealistic in some sense.

And so from, you know, the perspective of my friend, she was hearing you're being a little too picky. But my perspective, I was like, well, actually those things perspective of my friend, she was hearing, you're being a little too picky. But in my perspective, I was like, well, actually those things, in my opinion, are the things you should be picky on because those things matter when it comes to your marriage because those problems are probably not gonna change. And if it bothers you that much now,

it's really gonna bother you when you're married. And we just had a really good conversation. But as people are looking at a future spouse, like how do you know the difference in like, okay, I'm being too picky and unreasonable, or like, no, I'm holding to the things that I value and that I'm really looking for. Can you speak a little bit of vice into that dynamic?

Yeah. Yeah, totally. I mean, I'm curious to hear what you would say. I can go first on that, but I mean, I do think you want, when it comes to a cause, I am chasing the Lord Jesus Christ. Like if you are a Christian, you don't want to go, what's the minimum amount spiritually we can agree on? You just don't want to do that. Well, he ascends to the existence of a deity. No, don't do that. Like, he ascends to the existence of a deity. No, don't do that. It's going to determine how y'all make financial decisions, how you raise kids, how you make every decision. And you're talking about the deepest things of a human heart. Why

do you think you're even here? What do you think life's about? You don't want to scrimp on that one. So, I would say keep your standards high in are they chasing, knowing God, and do they have a God-shaped character? And that doesn't mean they're perfect, but it means this person wants to be shaped by God. They have wisdom. Wisdom is I want to know how I'm meant to work in the world, and so I'm humble enough to learn, I'm humble enough to repent when I do it wrong. So they're not perfect, but they're perfectible because you're watching. This is a person who's learning and moving. They're not going to be in the same place. They're not going to have the same struggles years from now that have made no progress. They might have similar temptations, but they're

making war on those. So you want to see that. What a lot of people do is they put chemistry, which I would put last, they put first. Are they funny? Are they cute? Are they smart? Does he like the things I like? And you go, there's a lot of bend in that world. I mean, and there's some things that some people make those all their deal breakers

and you go, you know what, man, like, you can't really tell on date one. I mean, this didn't happen with us dating. But I remember when I was looking for friends when we first moved to College Station, I was going on, we called him friend date. And I remember I met this guy and I was like, so what are you into, man? He was like, I just love gardening. And my first thought was, yeah, we're not going to be friends. I could possibly care less about gardening. And then I was like, what else do you do? And he's like, I like to tinker on cars. I'm like, oh man, like, we are not at all like. But as I got to know him, the dude loved God, had a heart for people. And we became deep friends, deep friends. And I realized, cars are not a deal breaker.

Guardian is not a deal breaker. And so I think charm is deceitful, beauty is fading. And so I think if you put too much weight on that, those are the things that don't last, can change. So I tell people not to get too hung up on that stuff. You know, that's so true. And Donna, I wanna hear what you you want to say to this too. But I was just thinking about, we talk about this a lot,

like high school friendships are a lot of times very different than like your friendships later in life. You know? I mean, I'm only 27, so 10 years out of high school, not very long. But I think back to like the way that you do. Because I was thinking about, I was looking around in my friend group.

And I was thinking, I don't think we would have been friends if we went to the same high school my friend group, and I was thinking, I don't think we would have been friends if we went into the same high school. Like my friends now, you know, I don't think we would have been friends because we're so different, because we would have all been in different hobbies and different things, and I would have done this,

and you would have done that, and we wouldn't have found the same clique because in middle school, high school, it's mainly based off of like, do you play sports or are you musical? Or are you, it's like the kind of chemistry thing. But then later in life, when you meet people, it's based more on like, what do you value?

What, like it's just deeper. It's just so much deeper, so much better. It's mainly like, oh, we ran into each other at work or this or that. It's like more important things. And so you have deeper relationships. And so that is just so interesting thinking about that. That is so true in relationship that sometimes we put chemistry first, but it's also very true in friendship too. But it's so much

deeper and long lasting when it's not just based off that. Like Donna, me and you are such good friends. But like if we went to the same high school, we would have lived such different high school lives, you know? Totally. We played different sports. We did different things. It's just interesting to think about, but so, so cool, like how your relationships later are just much more meaningful. So, Dawn, I want you to speak into that too about the picky, practical, all the things. Picky, practical. If you're a person who loves heading to the gym, then you probably know how important

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Some people try to do they're they try to pull them into, oh, well, they're going to like this or maybe they'll be more like this in this way. And you're kind of like trying to change them a little bit. And you just can't change anybody. You've got to just know, like, no, you want to be with somebody who you feel like you want to change for. You don't really want to go in and go, well, maybe they'll, I don't know, go to church with me later, or maybe they'll,

about what Ben was saying earlier, just, you just don't want to try to change somebody. I just, I don't know, I've watched so many people try to drag people around and into what they want to do, or into where they think that they're supposed to go. And you just can't. I would also say you have to be okay just being yourself. If that person is not into some of the things that you're doing, but they love that you love it, just let that... If they love that you love it. Just let that, like if they love that you love it, that's cool. Because then it's like, I don't even know how we would

like, I think Ben and I love the same types of music, but he like really likes rap and I don't. And I really like singer-songwriter stuff. And he's like, meh. But then we kind of like land in some spaces that are like, we both like this and we both appreciate, you know what I mean? And it's kind of like that on, on all levels. Like just if you can, if you can find, um, I don't know. Well, I think about, we were trying when we were dating to find stuff to do. And at that point I was running a lot. And like a real stress

relief for me, this will sound crazy, is I would go on long runs at night through the woods because the adrenaline rush was so high because there was like deer and all. And so I would just be out there like, ah, like I just loved it. And so I was like, I want to share this with you. And so we went running together at night through the woods and like, she hates to get. I hate when I'm chased. So I'm laughing now and I'm like, yeah, that was, if I would have been like, well, sorry, my girl's got to run. I'm like, I realized I don't care.

I'll run by myself. That's not a deal breaker. And how ridiculous to miss all the amazing things we've been able to do in life over something like running. Yeah. See, that is so good. But you're evaluating.

So you're like, do I care about that? No, I guess I don't really care about that. Yeah. I think that's the thing. Some people put like a lot too much weight on the things that aren't really like weighty decisions. You know, it's like, I mean, people, someone asked me this morning

if me and Christian work out together. And I was like, no, we don't work out together. Me and Christian do not work out together. Because me and Christian's workouts look very different. First of all, I don't work out near as much as Christian, but also like this morning, when I was doing a little 10 minute Zumba, Christian don't wanna do that.

He was making fun of me laughing because it is hilarious. Honey even walked in and said, you look funny, mommy. I'm like, I know, but that's the way I like to work out. When I go into Christian and he's sweating and he's popping it and he's, I'm like, I just, that, no, not my thing. But that's okay. There's so many other things we do together that we have so much fun in. And where you play pickleball or play whatever other sport that's fun.

But like, yes, that is something Christian cares so much about working out, but he didn't put the expectation on me to have to do that too. And there are things, like one thing that I had to give up is I love playing cards so much. Like I am a, I love nerds. I love playing cards. I will play cards with you.

Maybe we would have been best friends in high school, Donna. We might have been. We could have been. We might have been and could have been, which would have been really fun. But I love playing cards. And Christian gets so frustrated at cards. It's not fun to him at all.

And I would always be like, please, please, please play with me. And it would never end well. And so finally I'm like, I need to stop asking him to play cards. I actually need to find someone else to play cards with. So there are some things you just have to compromise on and settle.

I get to ask you all, because in this new edition, you talk about breakups, which I think is so important, and I'm so glad you're touching on that. I want to know for y'all's story, did y'all ever break up? Was that a part of your story?

We took a pause. We took a massive pause. That was two different reactions. I wouldn't call it a breakup in a classic sense. No, it was a pause. For us, we got to a point where I was looking at seminaries all over the country. I was like, the only thing I do know is I'm not going to live in the town that she lives in. That's the only thing I know about my life. And then her band was getting traction and traveling and so she was like, I'm going to go to seminary.

I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to go to seminary.

I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to go to seminary. I'm not gonna live in the town that she lives in. That's the only thing I know about my life. And then her band was getting traction and traveling. And so we just looked at the summer and I said, I'm trying to hand off these kids that

I love really well. You're gonna be in 14 weeks of touring. I said, let's not expand all this emotional energy of like trying to get near each other. Cause I just didn't even know like, is this going to work? And I think in retrospect, uh, Sadie, I was like, I think part of it was me is the constant input of like call, call, call, find each other, find each other. I was like, I need a chance to call, call, call, find each other, find each other. I was like, I need a chance to meditate, think. Am I ready to get married?

Am I ready to, is this, my processing speed was slower. So I asked Donna to slow it down and I came up with a way to do it. I said, can we physically write letters? And then I realized if I just leave it there, it's gonna be like a five to one ratio. So I was like, I was like, alternate, like you write one that I write one because I knew

response like a response. Yeah, I was like, I just knew that would slow it down. And again, it was kind of a humbling thing. I was like, I just need that time. I just need that time to think just need that time to think. There's too much life change. And what I discovered in that time was, wow, I look forward to her letters. I'm checking the mailbox constantly. And I miss her when she's gone. But it took me like a month to figure that out. I'm like, what are these feelings? I think I miss her. I love the processing.

Hmm. Hmm. No one asked five or six people about this. And Donna was gracious enough to give me that time, you know. It's funny, I mentioned that in the book and someone asked me that once. When do you enter the letter writing stage? Right. It's like, what? Wait. Like we think we're ready for the letter stage. And I'm like, when do you enter the letter writing stage? Right. Like what? Like we think we're ready for the letter stage. And I'm like, it's not a stage.

That was ours. Yeah, that was our thing. Yeah. Not prescriptive. It helped. It was helpful because it did. What it did is it slowed everything down. There was not that instant gratification, which honestly, like people right now, you

can text and meme and you can send a DM and you can do whatever. And it's like constant communication all the time. It's like you don't know what it's like to just take a break and evaluate and see what happens whenever we're not always able to get ahold of each other. Do I miss them? Do I want to be around them? Or do I have things I need to process with them because I don't want them to miss out

on the things that are going on in my life. And that was basically what it was. If you- No, go ahead. If you read Song of Solomon in the Old Testament, the book of romance, every chapter is the same. The lovers are separated, there's yearning,

and they long to be back together and they find their way to each other. And so if you think about this ancient document about love, it's separation, experience of yearning, overcoming the distance. And we needed that experience and that constant bombardment. It's one of the tragedies of modern life is meditation has gotten to be in such rare supply because attention is the coin of the economy. And so I think there's a place for reading books and podcasts and I'm a big fan

of absorbing information, but then I think you have to take a walk in the woods. You got to go pray and think and journal and I needed that time for us. So I wouldn't call it a breakup. No, I wasn't. I was actually, whenever I- I didn't even call it a break. Some people were like, we're not breaking up, we're taking a break. That means you're scared to say you're breaking up. I was like, I just need to slow this thing down. Like this thing's going too fast and I'm scared. I was actually thinking about a specific moment that it wasn't a breakup, but I thought it was over. So it was one of those like, Oh, I broke it. I broke it.

Well, I remember it was actually November 15th. I have it down. I can tell you what the date was. I knew exactly what it was because it was right before, because then we got engaged like not even a month later. So it's one of those like, oh, I did something. And this goes back to the, can we trust each other? Is this, because we were literally at that point, everything was so tense. And I think he was thinking about getting the ring. And it was just like, and then I had,

I had made a decision that wasn't like wrong. It just wasn't what we had agreed upon. And so because we were trying to figure out during that engagement, we weren't engaged yet, but we were kind of marching that direction. I had made a decision that wasn't best. And it wasn't what we had agreed upon. And so because of that, whenever that came to the light and we had to talk about it, he was angry and I was, he was right to be and I was crushed because I was like, I did it. I'm the one that broke it. And then I had to go through this whole thing about like, you know, how you feel whenever you feel like you broke something and you feel the pain of it, the shame of it, all of the things. And to go like, this thing that was awesome is broken because of me. And the Lord and his goodness,

actually, I wrote a song that day, it's all about blue skies and all about how God's not beating me up and I don't need to beat me up anymore. And Ben wasn't doing that. And it was all this stuff. And then we ended up that being this like almost like the last hill to climb before we're like, we made it. We made it through that really terrible thing that wasn't that terrible, but it was, it was for our relationship. And we got past it and the Lord was good and we were gracious to each other and we forgave each other and we were honest and we were able to speak the truth and love with each other and kind of come to more of a, I understand you, you understand me. You were worried about these things and I made you worry about those things, you know, like kind of coming together and then realizing we survived it. And now we're stronger. And then it wasn't even a month later and we got engaged.

Wow. I love that. I love a song. I love those guys. Hey, is it out? Can we listen to it? Yeah, it's out there. It came out in 08. I love that. I love that it's like both of your stories

speak to how to break up, even though you didn't break up in a healthy way. But one of the things I love about the letter story is like, ghosting is such a thing nowadays. And like when people wanna take time, they're not clear to the other person that I need to take a minute to figure out life because this is going too fast and it scares me. You're not articulating that, you're not using your words.

You're just not speaking, not saying anything, letting it hang, which then causes so much confusion on their side, so much heartbreak on their side. It's such a terrible thing, you know, to do or to experience. Now, I will say in the past, I did that. I regret that. I hate that about the whenever I look back at the past story. And so I have to say that to just be honest. But when I read, when I listened to that and like, man, that's so clear, because it's, it's true to where you were at, you really didn't need a break. You really didn't need to like, I'm like, man, that's so clear. Because it's true to where you were at. You really didn't need a break.

You really didn't need to think about it. Not a break, but you needed time to meditate. You needed time to think. But you also wanted to give her clarity. Hey, actually, it's not about you. I still like you. You're still amazing. But I need to slow things down.

And so I think the clarity is so beautiful. And then on the other hand, an actual moment where I broke this, I messed this up, and he was angry and all things, but then to like work it out and to talk it out and to come to the other side of it. Because I actually think that's so healthy and so important in relationships.

I think back to Christian and I, having some like big hard conversations in dating where we were upset with each other, not happy, like frustrated at the other person person did whatever they did. But then in marriage, you have the same things that happen and you overcome them. Totally. And you build that foundation in dating.

And so, you know, someone asked me the other day about our dating life because they were asking me, they're currently dating someone and asking me like, should it be this hard? And I was telling her, you know, I remember dating someone and it was a very hard relationship. We were just constantly fighting, constantly upset.

And I remember his sister saying to me, Sadie, it shouldn't be this hard. And in my mind, I thought, really? Because I thought relationships were hard. Everyone always tells you relationships are hard, blah, blah, blah. And then hindsight, you know, thinking back to his sister saying that,

I was like, she was so right, because even though there were hard moments in Christianized relationship, there wasn't, it wasn't hard in the sense that I was confused or emotional or always felt upset or hurt. Like we got through hard moments, but the relationship and the dating process

wasn't necessarily like hard or a struggle or a lot of like tears the way that it had been in unhealthy relationships. So I think I'll paint a beautiful picture of doing that in a healthy way. Ben, was that something that you got asked a lot about in the breakup world? Is that why you decided to write about it?

Yeah, you know, I wasn't dying to write a chapter on breaking up either, but that was part of why to re-release it is just so many people experience that. And you go, so how do we do it in a way that, you know, it was critical for me, Sadie, I again, look back at the kindness of the Lord. My sister is about two years younger than me. And so when I watched her come to college, I had

a group of guy friends that were joking about, we're all going to date your sister, you know? And I will never forget this lunch. And I was like, no, you're not. Like, I'll kill you. And they thought I was doing that like macho brother thing, like no one dates my sister. And I was like, I'm not doing that. I just, I've seen the way you guys treat girls and I don't trust you because you don't care about them. You use them and I don't like that. And you play with their feelings and I don't like that.

So it's not that no one's good for my sister. I just don't respect you guys. But I've been like, I just don't respect you guys. But I remember a guy as he was walking out said, will anyone be good enough for your sister? And I sat there at that table for a long time, because I was like, yeah, of course. And then I was like, all right, well, how would I describe him? And I was sitting there thinking about like, well, I would want him to treat her like the Bible says that she's made in the image of God and therefore has dignity, and so to treat

her with dignity. And if y'all start dating, dating's an evaluation. You're either going to get married and you honor and care for her, or you're not. But if y'all end up not, I want the net effect of your time with her to be that she was honored and respected by a brother in Christ and was better as a result of the encounter with you." And then I felt like the Lord was like, yeah, is that how you treat girls? And I was like, no, it's not. And I really like, I don't know that I spoke a vow, but I felt in my heart like I don't want to disrespect women out of fear or fear of an awkward conversation

ever again. So when it came to Donna, I really did want to be what Ephesians says, speaking the truth and love, we will in all things grow. So when I wrote this chapter on breaking up, it's like, how do you do that in a way that honors people? Because it honors God to care about the people He loves and bled out for. So it was my best attempt to help people navigate a sad and a hard thing with dignity and grace. That's great. I love that.

It's beautiful. It's so needed. We're almost out of time, but I want to end it on a fun story. Tell us how you proposed Ben and Donna. Were you surprised? I got to hear the fun facts. We were in the world before like, proposals were like the thing in the like, go and, you know, run an island and get a variant.

That's so true. That's a thing now. Yeah. And ours was chaos. But ours is beautiful. Yeah. I realized, I thought it took like months to get a ring. You know, like I just thought the problem, I'm like, I don't know, they go like mine

a diamond or something. But like, I realized you could get it faster. You know, like I just thought the problem like I don't know they go like mine a diamond or something but like Realized you get it faster I was like, oh my gosh like we could get married like way faster than I thought like once I realized she's it then I just hit the gas like how fast can this happen and like called her parents and I mean, I literally drove to her dad's up in Oklahoma, and then her mom was leaving the country for months. So I drove through the night, literally watched the sun set and rise.

I pulled over in a parking lot and she called me because we talked at night and she's like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm just hanging out. In my mind, I'm like in my car and inside of the van. And then like a police officer comes and like starts banging on the door. It's like midnight and I'm in some random parking lot. She's like, what's going on? I'm like, oh, I think one of my neighbors is stopping by.

I should probably go. Officer Jones. Yeah. And this dude's, I'm like, literally like, oh man. So drove down, picked up her mom, drove her mom to the airport and was like, oh my gosh, so tired. So I was like, Lord, please let me not kill the potential future mother. Oh my gosh. But then able, I got a ring and I've told, I just recently told this whole story. I've never really told it to deal, but, um, I had

got a ring in Dallas, but then some buddies of mine at a church, you would probably know, we're like, you got to talk to our guy in New York. And their guy in New York sent me a ring and it was a better ring for less money than the Dallas guy. And so anyway, long story short, I was like, they were like, you gotta get it appraised. And I was trying to call all these appraisers. They were all already out of town for the holidays.

And everyone kept saying, you're gonna have to go to Patty Giole. She's the best appraiser in the business. And so I went to Patty Giole. She's the best appraiser in the business. And so I went to Patty Giole. She looked like the girl that makes the suits and the Incredibles. And she's like, gets the ring from me and comes back and was like, where did you get this ring? I'm like, what?

She's like, it's been worn before. You can see the tangs here. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And she was like, it doesn't match the paperwork that you have. And I'm like, what does that mean, Patty? And she goes, I don't know if it's real. I'm like, what do you mean you don't know if it's real? And she was like, the fakes coming out of Russia these days. And I was like, the fakes coming out of Russia. And so literally this like real austere woman suddenly were like side by side at a microscope.

And she was like, I want to take this to GIA headquarters in New York and put it under the ion microscope. And I'm like, Patty, I'm in love. I want to get married. I was like, I respect that this is important to you. Meanwhile, I'm like, why is he not picking up? So I was trying definitely to get to Houston. And then I get calls from a friend who's a police officer that was like, don't worry, man, it's probably a blood diamond. Someone probably was murdered for it. I'm like, Oh my God, but he's serious. Then his

sister grabs the phone and was like, just give it to her. She'll never know. I'm like, what did you say? I don't want to start a relationship with life. It was all so chaotic, Sadie. Finally, I just sent the blood diamond back, went to the Dallas guy, because he was a believer, and he was like, dude, I'll take care of you. Through a complete miscommunication with his staff, he accidentally gave me a better ring that I could afford. Oh my gosh. And then I was driving to Houston and realized on the way, oh man, I haven't really come up with a plan. Plans nothing. Oh my gosh. But, here, I'll take it from here. So our first date was The Two Towers.

It's the second movie of the Lord of the Rings trilogy. And that was the date that he was like, hey, a big group of us are going to go see this movie. If you want to come, it'd be great if you came. And so I asked my best friend who was pregnant at the time with her first, I was like, hey, a big group of us are going to go see this movie. If you want to come, it'd be great if you came. And so I asked my best friend who was pregnant at the time with her first, I was like, come with me to this movie. She's like, absolutely not. I was like, you're the worst friend ever.

Come with me to this movie. She's like, no, I can't. It's too late. I am married. I am pregnant. I am not going to that movie. So I had to go by myself to this movie for this, you know, group of guys, because I was the only girl and I show up and there is a seat available that he had made

available for me. In the movie, we had had a couple of like moments where we, I don't know, it was kind of like he would say something and I would say something back and then it was like, we would argue a bit and then it was over. And I was like, okay, this what is what is going on? Anyway, one of the things that had happened was when I had a band and so I had a card with my band's number on it. And if he was a youth pastor, and so there was a moment like in the past where I had given him my card and he was like saying that I he had my number. I was like, you don't have my number. He goes, I'm pretty sure I have your number. I was like, no, I didn't give you my number. Anyway, he's like, okay.

And I'm like, what is this guy saying? I gave him my number and I didn't. Anyway, we get into the movie. There's a moment in the cave where Legolas, the Orlando Bloom has like, they forgot to put his contacts in. So he has brown eyes, but the elf has blue eyes. I was like, oh, they left their left his contacts out.

He goes, you know, I was talking about I was like, I'm pretty sure I know what the elves lot eyes look like. So when he comes up over the hill, he's got these blue eyes. And so Ben's like, Ben's like, okay, fine. Anyway, finally, the movie's over. It was an interesting moment. There's actually the Gollum scene really got me shook up for some things. But then we get to I know know it's a long time ago.

Anyway, we get into the, where I'm leaving, driving back 20 minutes back to the, to the Woodlands and he lived in spring and I get a phone call and I think it's one of the guys that I knew at the deal who was checking up on me because it was late. I pick up the phone and he says, well, the elf may have blue eyes, but I definitely have your number. And I was says, well, the elf may have blue eyes, but I definitely have your number. And I was like, Oh, anyway, so that's when we start talking. Cute. I know.

So good. Anyway, so we were like talking on the phone. He invites me to another thing. I think it was for your brother. It was like a crawfish boil or something like that. Anyway, so we were going to go to a New Year's Eve party or something like that. So that's how it started. Now a year later, after we had taken our pause in the summertime and written letters to each

other, had the big November 15th blow up. And then it's the night of Return of the King, which is the last of the trilogy. We're going to the movie. So it's the same. It's a replay. Yeah. So it's a replay of the first date. No, I think it's wonderful.

That is sweet. Ben's dying right now. That is sweet. You see? It's so good. Well, we basically recreated our first base. Recreated our first day. That is very sweet.

See, this is the thing that the people written in the islands are missing is intentionality as to do with their relationship. So Christian and I's proposal was pretty grand and it was beautiful as far as like when I look at the video, I'm like, people are like, how'd you know you're going to get engaged? You're wearing a white dress. And I did know because of the way that he had told me that day, like he was all set up. He was like, go put you know you were going to get engaged? You're wearing a white dress, blah, blah. And I did know because of the way that he had told me that day, like, he was all like set up. He was like, go put on your favorite dress you've ever worn.

So as soon as he said that, I knew what was happening. Because, you know, people always ask. Were your nails done? Were your nails done? Yes. Big question. But my nails were done for like a solid three months, because I thought it was going to be before that.

But one of my favorite parts about our proposal that's like not in the video that like no one knows, because that's not in the video that no one knows because it's not the public thing, but when I got in the car for him to take me there, it was like my dad had gotten me this old Bronco whenever I'd, I think it was when I turned 18, and I'd always wanted an old Bronco. And so he picked me up in the Bronco,

and then in it was letters from my whole family and his family But that's the thing that you love, you know It's like the intentionality and like the thing that they know about you that no one else says that they know you're gonna love this You know, totally and so I love y'all story. I think that is sweet It's so great. Well, look, y'all need to do more podcasts together because y'all are so much fun to hear your stories. I mean, obviously you have so much wisdom

and so much insight, both of you, but to also just hear the type of people you are and the way that you live your life. It's so refreshing. I think this is why when I said at the beginning, like people are intrigued by your relationship. And even when Christian and I are around y'all, we love to see y'all together

because there's so many things in the world now where you don't know if it is true, if it is real. It's like people can say good things for 15 seconds, but how are you really living your life? And so to see that the truth that comes out of your life and out of your mouth when you speak really does come from the heart It really is coming from your life It's the it truly is the way that you live you guys can't help but answer every question with the word

With Jesus with the relationship with him and it's beautiful. It's just absolutely who y'all are So thank you for being who you are and thank you for continuing to help people navigate singleness dating engagement, engagement, breakups, and marriage. We appreciate it. Thank you guys. We love you guys. That was awesome. We love you guys so much.

We love y'all. you