WHOA That's Good Podcast - Losing My Voice Led Me to One of the Greatest Moments of My Life | Sadie, Christian, Phil Wickham & Kristian Stanfill

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

Phil Wickham and Kristian Stanfill drop into the WTG studio to chat with Sadie and Christian on their Singalong Tour stop in Monroe, LA. Phil shares the most surprising way "This Is Amazing Grace" came to be and he has encouragement for anyone struggling with "Is he the one?" questions. Kristian talks about his start in leading worship. Phil talks about a heavenly moment he had with God and what changed for him as a result. Sadie and Christian ask them about moments of doubt they've had leading and singing on-stage and Phil and Kristian both talk about how they stay accountable with confessing and speaking out the stuff that's a struggle for them. Get your tickets for the Singalong Tour at a venue near you!  This Episode of WHOA That's Good is Sponsored By: https://www.12vc.com/sister — Join the 12 Verse Challenge and help fund 12 Verses of Scripture a year for people who have little to no access to Scripture! https://drinkag1.com/whoa — New subscribers get a FREE $76 gift when you sign up. You’ll get a Welcome Kit, a bottle of D3K2 AND 5 free travel packs in your first box! https://covenanteyes.com/sadie — Try Victory today and start your journey toward a healthier, stronger marriage. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up everybody? Happy Well That's Good Wednesday. I hope you're having a great week with per usual friends. It is about to get so much better because today we have such a special, two special guests and they're actually here today because they are on the sing-along tour. We have Phil Wickham and Christian Stanfield, two legends in the worship world. And I also have my hubby here. Two Christians here. Christian. Yeah, two Christians. Four Christians. One's a K though. He spells it with a K. K-C-H. More traditional. We have a K and a C Christian in the house and grateful for that. So guys, y'all just started the sing-along tour. Yes. We just started. We hit Texas cities. We're Houston. Yep. Where else were we? Tyler, Texarkana. And now we're here in your neck of the woods. Let's go Monroe. So good to hang out with you guys.

This is like the best. People have been coming to Monroe lately and it's the best thing ever because one, it's like a lot of our friends that we get to see then two, they get to stop by my podcast, I'm like, thank you, North Monroe, for hosting all these incredible people. So, it's so cool to be here. Yeah, it's awesome. Really, really cool.

Is this your first time? Yeah, I've never been here before. I don't know if I've ever been to Monroe either. No, well, we've been to Monroe, but never been here. Not Duck Commander. Not the Commander of Ducks. Yeah, you're at the Commander of Ducks right now, so.

It's actually wild pulling up, because you know, this show is a part of our culture for several years. When did it stop? It stopped, okay, it's crazy how long ago it stopped. It was like 10 years ago, actually. Okay, this was insane, about a decade ago.

2017. I've pulled it up and seen the building as well. Maybe like eight years ago or so. I was a senior in high school when we stopped recording, so that feels like a long time ago. Whoa. I know. I was in eighth school when we stopped recording. So that feels like a long time ago. Whoa. I know. I was in eighth grade when we started filming

and a senior when we stopped. So my whole high school was, yeah, that was just so nuts. Being in, sorry, I'm not gonna be the interviewer. This is a reverse podcast. I just have one question. I think I have the same question. Okay, so growing up being on TV is one thing, but was it kind of grounding, first of all,

it was all with your family, and also it was in your hometown of Monroe. It's not like you guys were going to LA to film or anything like that. Oh, 100%. So were you even, you were aware but not aware? 100%. It was so, I mean, I'm so thankful for that.

I always say that. When people say to us, like, oh, how did none of y'all lose your mind, like being young and getting fame? And I say, well, a lot of famous people who get famous when they're young, they're by themselves. Like the spotlight is literally on them. And I can see how that would be so hard

because it was hard for us in a lot of ways, in different ways, but we were with our entire family, like not just mom and dad, aunts, uncles, grandparents, like all of us together. And yes, in our hometown, I think actually for the first couple years, I didn't realize like how big it was until we did start traveling for the show,

like speaking and stuff. And we were like, whoa, this is crazy. You know, and people started showing up here to, you know, they'd come to Monroe and we didn't have anything. And they'd be like, where are the Dugdianacy people? They'd come try to find us. And we'd be like, oh, the Dugdunno people? They'd come try to find us. And we'd be like, oh, this is weird. They'd just be outside, and they'd just take selfies.

And we had thousands of people come here just to watch the family walk into work. I mean, it was so crazy. So it started getting like, OK, wow, this is wild. And then when I was on Dancing with the Stars was when I went to LA. And that was like my, oh this is wild. Yeah, this is a whole other world. But the grounding with my family being here was such

a gift. I mean, I can't even imagine going through that without everyone. It was so special. So crazy. Thanks for having us. Thanks for asking me a question on the podcast. You're welcome. I know. I love it. Okay, wait, actually, I am going to ask you all the question I ask everybody on the Will It's Good Podcast, and this is totally gonna come out of left field. This is unprepped, yeah. If you are not prepared for this, and I feel like y'all are not,

but I ask everybody what the best piece of advice you've ever been given is, and I feel like y'all are two people you gotta ask that question to. Great question. So go back in your memory files. What is some of the most solid advice you got that had like a really pivotal impact on your life? Goodness gracious. Go back in your memory files. What is some of the most solid advice you got

that had like a really pivotal impact on your life? Goodness gracious. Christian, there's something on your mind immediately. Well, the first thing that comes to my mind, I had a youth pastor in high school who had such an influence on my life and saw leadership in me when I was like a knucklehead middle schooler and walked me through high school.

And when I graduated, he wrote me this note and in the note he put 2 Chronicles 16, 9, I think it is. Maybe we should check that. Fact check. Yeah, fact check. But it says that the eyes of the Lord, they range throughout the earth, looking for those whose hearts are fully committed to Him, so He can strengthen those people. And that verse just like got in my heart and has stuck with me for so many years. And just wherever we've gone, like in our family or in ministry, just remembering that the Lord's He's looking for people who are just like,

I'm here and I'm ready, Lord, wherever you want to do. And He wants to strengthen those people. He wants to put wind behind, not for my name, but for His name. And to be a part of His story and His kingdom in that way is so beautiful. So that's just always, always stuck with me. And how old were you? Oh my

gosh. I mean, 18 years old. Wow. That's cool. Yeah. And I mean, even in the last couple years we've all that God's doing through passion and passion city church and our family. I still like, I still reach for that. Wow. Just remember that verse like, Lord, this is what it's, it's been, it's in your, it's been in your words from the beginning, but this is the promise she gave to us all these years ago and here you are still doing it. So anyway. That's so cool. I love that, that's so cool.

Yeah, it's beautiful. That's awesome. I think for me, I realized as I was dating my now wife, but I realized as I was, I dated her for about three years, kind of first boyfriend, first girlfriend thing, from when I was like 21 to 24. And about three years in, I was like, okay, I was, I realized I was scared of commitment. Like I was one of those guys, it's like, okay, yeah, I know I love this girl and I can't imagine running it live without

her, but like, how do you know? Maybe I grew up in some situations where, like, I remember I would keep coming back to like summer camps where like pastors would talk at these youth retreats and be like, yeah, I walked into a room, I saw a woman and the Lord said, that's your wife, we're married two weeks later, you know? And I'd be like, okay, so God just tells you. That's how it works.

Yeah. Got you. And it's just a big thing. And then this, a pastor friend of mine, his name was Jeff, who's actually passed away now. He's like, Phil, it's not that complicated. He's like, does she love Jesus? It's like, yeah, she really does. Does she make you love Jesus more?

I was like, yeah. He's like, do you think she's pretty? I'm like, I think she's really pretty, you know? And it's like, do you wanna hang out with her every day? He's like, yeah, more than anybody else. He's like, what would happen if you didn't know what she did today? I was like, oh, I'd be devastated. He was like, what would happen if you didn't know what she did today? I was like, oh, I'd be devastated.

He's like, do you trust her to raise your kids? I was like, of course, yeah, she's awesome. She's really great with kids. And he's just like, I was like, oh. Come on. I'm supposed to marry her. And I went and got a ring the next day.

Wow, Joe. And that's obviously changed my life. And we're celebrating 17 years this year. Wow. That's amazing. That is so cool. Because we always do like Q&As, you know, asking people on Instagram, what kind of conversations do you want us to have

on the podcast, what are you struggling with? And one of the biggest things we get asked is how do you know if the person's the one that you're supposed to be with? And it's kind of sad because a lot of, there's like so much anxiety around it. It's like so much confusion, like how am I supposed to know?

And it's kind of been shocking to us how many times people ask that. So we did a whole podcast dedicated to that question. And so I love that you bring that up too, because it does, sometimes it does feel super complicated and overwhelming. And then you hear other people's stories and it feels like, really? That's how you knew? That's crazy? God told you? God, tell me. Send an angel or something. I was waiting for a a verse to like highlight itself in the scriptures or a cloud in the sky. And then, and everybody has a different story,

but like it was just so obvious. And I was letting like my own fear and my own, if I just, that conversation helped me step back and just see the blessing of the Lord so clearly. I'm like, okay, we've been best friends for three years. I want to be with her every day. Like I want to grow old. Like all the things were there.

I just, I was just too afraid, not asking myself the right questions. Yeah. It's like, where's the cloud in the sky was my question. When it's like, oh, I see the blessing of the Lord right in front of me. And I was so thankful for my pastor. That goes into so many conversations too, not just like who's the one you're going to marry,

but just little decisions in life, every decision in life. I think so often, like we're looking for the cloud, looking for the sign, and you don't have to over complicate it or even over spiritualize it like that. Like God is leading you. His word is a lamp into your feet and a light into your path. And I love that you mentioned that because I feel like that's just going to let people listening right now take a deep breath. Yeah. Take a deep breath. Ask yourself the right questions.

Just walk with Him. And just walk with Him. Yes. It's so cool that y'all both brought up the early times in your worship leading and whenever people saw something on your life because Christian and I were both like really interested in that in your stories because y'all are two, when I say legends in the church and worship leading, the church is currently singing the songs that you guys have written, that you guys are leading. Our church on Sunday,

we're probably gonna sing one of y'all songs. That's crazy. It's a lot of crazy honor. But it just start like that. I wanna get to that and how crazy that is, but way before that, did you always have that desire in your heart? Was it something that people started calling out on you?

Or you just had a good voice? Take us back to when you started realizing there was something special. Take us back to the moment. Yeah. Well friends, I am officially inviting you to join the scripture translation movement with the Illuminations 12 Verse Challenge.

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for a people group that doesn't have the word in their heart language. So let's keep going. I know my amazing Will That's Good fam will step up to the challenge. We would absolutely love for you to help out. Whenever I got to go to Guatemala last year, I just got to see it firsthand

and see the power of what it really looks like whenever people who didn't have access to scripture in their heart language get it. And it is absolutely incredible and we get to be a part of that. So how do you join the movement? Well, pull out your phone right now, click the link in the show notes

or go to 12vc.com slash sister and commit to the 12 verse challenge. That's the number one, the number two, vc.com slash sister. And we are in this guys until everyone everywhere has access to God's word. Visit the number 12vc.com slash sister to join the movement today. I did not, I did not have a good voice. I think my parents- That's not possible. No.

You got such a great voice. Oh my gosh. It's interesting though how people started because like, people asked me that like, oh, you were always good at speaking. I'm like, no, literally it was terrible. The first time I spoke, not kidding, the event asked for their money back.

Yeah. Because it was so bad. I'm still trying to figure out talking. I just got asked to do it because I was on Doug Dynasty, not because I was good at it. OK? So like, some people, it says naturally, you're just like that. But you didn't have a good voice.

It's encouraging to hear that. What do you mean by that? There's hope for me. Well, I think, what are you talking about? Are you talking about like 13-year-old Christian? Yeah, like I was 12 years old, 13 years old. So you're, yes, I'm past the point. I loved music, you know?

And I found a guitar in my dad's closet and just tried to figure it out. And you've never done it before. And I think for a few years, my parents were like, I hope you pick something different. This is crazy, you know? That's so funny. You see like that kind of stuff.

I love stories like this. Someone out there is listening like, okay. But it was a really sweet time. Cause it was, I had this guitar. I had this like, this growing faith and relationship in Jesus, with Jesus. And I would just sit in my bedroom for like, for hours and just learn songs and just sing to Him.

And I didn't know it then, but that kind of, that's like the fuel for the fire. That's still like that, just being with Him, walking with Him, talking with Him, finding those quiet spaces with Him, that's the fuel. Yep. Just so, but yeah, that's where it all started. And then my youth group on Wednesday nights, they were like, hey, we don't have a worship leader. And we heard that you have a guitar

and you're trying to figure this out. So now you're our worship leader. You know? And I was like, what's a worship leader? Like, I didn't know, but it turns out it's just what I'd been doing in my bedroom. You know, just, so then just trying to figure out how to let the overflow of what God was doing in my life, like privately,

like the overflow of that just happened on Wednesday nights with my youth group, you know? And it turns out that's just how it still is, you know? So yeah, that's how it kind of all got started for me. I'm really grateful for that youth leader who was like, when I would have first, when would we have kind of all got started for me. Awesome. Really grateful for that youth leader who was like. I'm trying to think of like when I would have first, when would we have kind of first been aware of there's a guy named Christian Stamphill. Sorry, I'm podcasting again.

He podcasting. I'm just curious like when I first heard of your name, because I feel like I've known of it a long time and then we got to be friends later. What ministry was that that was like the catapult? Was that like. I don't know what that would have been. Maybe North Point? Yeah, the Louie's study?

Yeah, 722. Yeah, 722. Do you guys remember hearing about it? There were probably, there were a generation. Oh, 722. It was a singles Bible study in Atlanta that Louie would teach, and there was this awesome worship band. But then like high school kids started coming,

college kids, because like God was just doing amazing stuff through it. So we would show up every Tuesday night. It was awesome. But then I got to lead there. That was the first time I led Jesus Paid It All, was at 722. So I think maybe around then.

What was the first song you wrote that the church started singing? Like the global church. Um, there was a song called Beautiful Jesus that was on a Passion record, like, years ago, 08 or something like that. But that was the first time I started hearing, like, people would say, hey, we were singing Beautiful Jesus in church this Sunday. And I was just like, what the heck? Wow.

It's crazy. It's so crazy. It's crazy. I can't, that is so cool. Yeah. It's so cool. I love that you talk about how like you weren't the best singer, but you love music. And there's this book, it's called You Are What You Love, and there is this concept in it that I thought was so cool. And it talks about like, if you wanna teach someone to build a boat, don't just give them, you know,

the materials to do it, but teach them to desire the sea. And I was like, that is such a good concept and such a good quote. And I think about that with like the things in my life too, like speaking or whatever, I was not good at it naturally. I was super shy. That was not like something that I necessarily was like confident in.

But whenever I just started to love the Lord and be just completely obsessed with who God is and start studying the word, and I fell in love with Jesus, it was like, I could not talk about Him. And then anytime there was an opportunity or a platform, it was overflow, you know? And so it's not like, oh, I'm trying to build this.

I'm trying to build this. I'm trying to do this. It's just, man, I love God. I love Jesus so it flows out of you. And so it's really cool. Like when you love the Lord, it makes up for your lack, your lack of whatever you feel your lack is. Like, oh, I'm not the best singer.

You don't have to be the best singer. It's not about being the best to be a worship leader. It's not about being the best to be whatever God's calling you. Every Bible story shows us it's not about being the best to be a worship leader. You know, it's not about being the best to be whatever God's calling you to do. Yeah. So it shows us it's not about being the best. It's almost like you should be the worst. Yeah. I could be...

Yeah. ...lourified in it, you know? It is almost a gift to feel that way. That's so true. Truly. Just to be so desperate. Like, man, if something supernatural and miraculous is gonna happen, then you have to do it. Like, I don't feel confident. You know what I mean. supernatural and miraculous is gonna happen, that you have to do it.

Like I don't feel confident, you know what I mean, like I don't feel confident in my own strength to do that. That's such a beautiful place to be. Demonstration of the spirit's power. I feel that I'm there, you know, I'm there, but I think it's been a long journey for me to shed the idea of like, I gotta try harder, I gotta sing louder, I gotta work more on writing,

because it's not gonna happen unless I work really, really hard. And I remember there's a turning point. I mean, if you wanna hear the beginning, I could do that too. I do wanna hear the beginning, but just to the turning point. The turning point in my heart that I didn't even realize

that was existing was in 2013. I had to can't, like I was out on a tour and my voice was just dying. I could literally get through two songs and then I just was like, as if I had laryngitis and the promoter who's, you know, he's helping people get to the shows, he's selling tickets. They don't want to cancel shows.

It's like their job to keep the shows going. We had like six, seven more to do and he's like, we were canceling, like this is embarrassing. And you got something, like you gotta go get checked out. And so, and that was in Maine, and a little tangent, so I was super depressed, and then we had to drive like four hours through the night to get to the closest airport,

and almost hit a moose, and almost died. And I was like, Lord, what are you doing in my life? I remember it jumped out in front of the car, and the car like slid on the ice, and moose like did the moose for? Did a moose cry? It was crazy. Okay, that was a little tangent.

Well sometimes it has to be dramatic. I know, it felt like I was in a movie. It was like, what's happening in my life? Anyways, I got, I'm not gonna do all the details, but I had a polyp on my vocal cords. Something that happens to singers. I had to be silent for a month to see if it would go away. It didn't go away, it was actually bleeding. Then I had to be silent for a month to see if it would go away. It didn't go away.

It was actually bleeding. Then I had surgery and the doctors were like, hey, just get ready for your life to be different. I know you're a singer, but it's just, you'll get some sort of singing back. 100% it's probably not gonna come back. You might not be able to get through a full set. You might have trouble singing.

Just be ready. And I was like, okay. And I to be like manly in the hospital room, but like went home like like what value, I really felt depressed and as I was searching my heart and had to be silent again after that surgery for six weeks. And just like just feeling so like my value went away as a human, you know. Yeah like that was the way I provided for my family, but that'll work. I could always get a job at Starbucks or something, you know? But, all right, yeah, there's other things too,

but really I realized I loved, there's so much a part of that I loved. It was this sense of like people told me they liked it. So that this is my value. This is the way I, this is my approval, you know? And I realized that was what I was grieving of like, what if that goes away? And then I remember in the silence of that moment,

there's a pastors conference called catalyst. You guys familiar with catalyst? There was catalyst West was going- I remember this Phil. Yeah. Were you there? I was there. Oh, catalyst West?

Yes. Oh, no, no, no, no, not West, sorry. But I remember when this happened, sorry. And I was supposed to be leading worship there and I couldn't. And so like, hey, can you write just something? So we want to pray for you from stage. Like we know you're going through it. It's like, oh, that's sweet, you know?

And so I was doing like the, hey guys, like this verse is what I'm clinging onto. And like, it's totally, you know, it's just, it could be way worse than I've followed by my vocal cord. Can't wait to get back next year, like positive, faithful. And then they texted me, the conference theme is identity. And right in that moment, like I remember being

in this back room of my house, I just started like weeping and I didn't know why. And in my inner voice, because I wasn't supposed to talk, just crying out to the Lord, what's going on in my heart right now? And one of the, I would say three times, that it was like an undeniable sense of,

I'm in the presence of God, and I can't, there's moments like that for me, I'll never not believe in the existence of God. There's many rational reasons. There's many beautiful reasons. There's many life changing reasons in my life and other life. But I feel like I've been with him in such a near way

in these moments. And this was one of them that I'll never not wanna chase it. And I remember just a question like in my soul, like who am I? And I remember just a question in my soul, like, like, who am I? And the answer came to me, like, you're my father. It's like, what does that make you? You know, and like, I'm your son. And then like, I just started,

it was such a heaven moment. I remember thinking of all these pivotal points in my life were like coming to my mind. And it's like, I was there, I was there, I was there, I was there, I was doing this, I was doing this, and this is me, and this is because I love you, and not because of what you've done, not because of the checklists. It's like, I love you and I want you because I made you in your mind, you know? And what that means is like, the Father, or the Creator of the universe wants me to call Him Father, and so like, I can trust in His love. I can trust in His plan.

I don't have to, like, lean on people's expectations of me. Yeah, it was just such a life-changing moment. It was almost like coming to Jesus for the second time, which I was already saved, obviously, and came to Jesus, but it's like really believing that I didn't have to checklist to be in His good graces and checklist to have value. It's just like I could just be a child and really just receiving that.

And it changed the course of my inner life. I don't remember why I went into that. Originally. Yeah, that was a turning point for me from like really trying to think, oh yeah, I was like, I needed to work harder and write more and be better. To be what I was supposed to be and to live up to any expectations

and to like really just sitting in the presence of God and being with him was the beautiful thing and letting everything else flow out. And so after that, people were already singing songs, but after that was a different thing. You started singing at church singing. Oh, I just started my love for serving the church with songs instead of serving my artistic expression

of what I wanted to say to God first, it just shifted. And I just saw so many things that like, wow, this came out of insecurity, this came out of fear. And now that doesn't exist anymore. And I realized what, not just what I'm supposed to do, but what I love to do, which is like, I love serving the church with these songs, and then songs like, Living Hope, and Great Things,

and This Amazing Grace, and Hymn of Heaven, and About of a Long, all kind of came out of it. The list is wild. A lot of people might not know those, but these are songs that I sing and it seems like people know when I go out. People know them. A lot of people are like, I've never heard any of those.

People know them. We sing Living Hope like every single Sunday in our church. So sweet. And it's so good. It's always good. It's every time. It doesn't get old. I mean, it's so good.

That's so cool to hear. Let's talk about marriage for a minute. It can be such a blast, but let's be real, it comes with a lot of challenges too. Christian and I have definitely gotten through a few, but being married is such a gift and I wouldn't have it any other way. And that's why I want to share with you an amazing tool from our friends at Covenant Eyes. Victory by Covenant Eyes is a software that helps couples protect their marriage, build

trust and provide accountability in the digital world. We all know that pornography and inappropriate content are a huge issue in our world today and it creeps into marriages in ways that you might not have expected. But Covenant Eyes doesn't want you to face that battle alone. Their software monitors screen activity and sends reports to a chosen accountability partner. So maybe that's your spouse or maybe that's a trusted friend. But whoever you choose, Covenant Eyes can help you create an environment of openness and trust in your relationship. I've seen myself how good

communication and accountability can do wonders for strengthening a marriage and tools like Covenant Eyes can make that easier for yourself. The best part is that it's not about shame or guilt, it's about growth, healing, and protecting what matters the most, each other and your relationship with Jesus. God made marriage to be a reflection of His love, pure and full of grace, and Covenant Eyes will help you do that. Accountability is huge, friends.

I think that so many people fear accountability and letting someone else in, but that's where freedom really comes. And I think that you guys would benefit so much from taking this next step, if it's something you or someone you know or love struggles with. If you're married, engaged,

or even just dreaming about the future, I cannot recommend Covenant Eyes enough. Go to covenanteyes.com slash Sadie to learn more and start your journey together towards healing and a healthier, strong marriage today. That's covenanteyes.com slash Sadie. I love that both of y'all had the point of it. It had to become overflow, and it's cool because I actually tell people with social media,

that's like when people ask me social media advice, I always say like, let it be from the overflow. Like, cause so many people go at it, like striving, trying to gain a platform, trying to prove something, trying to, and I remember when the shift happened for me where I would like look back, kind of like you said, like at different moments

and I'd be like, man, that came out of insecurity. That post was out of striving. That was for likes, that was for comments, whatever it was. And then there was like a and I'd be like, man, that came out of insecurity. That post was out of striving. That was for likes, that was for comments, whatever it was. And then there was like a shift when it's like, oh, this is just the overflow of my life. Like, this is just like the love I have for the Lord, love I have for my family. I don't, it truly is not about what I get

from social media, it's what I get to give to people who follow me and hopefully feed people. And so like, it's so cool what y'all are saying is for y'all's unique experience and like the worship that you lead, but that's like in every area of your life. Like if you get to the place of knowing who you are in Christ and letting your life live

from the overflow of that, like it changes everything. It changes how you love people, see people, show up to places, like it's amazing. We've been talking a lot about identity on the podcast too. And that seems to be a big topic. And it's crazy how you can wrap your identity and like the things that are good things that you don't realize it and like Levi's message

and passion. Oh my word. Oh my gosh. Everyone listening to this, if you have not listened to Levi Lesko's message. Go hear Levi's talk. Go hear Levi's talk. I think they're out now.

And go hear Sadie's talk. Oh yeah, that one too. It was amazing. Levi's is like one I'm gonna go back to in life. What were the bullet points on? Cause that was in there. Okay, it was actually pretty much a talk of bullet points kind of.

It was like through the different seasons of your life, his advice to you in that moment. So he talked about like his own life crisis. And one of the things he said, and I went to him after, I was like, thank you so much for saying this, because I didn't realize how my identity began to be shaped by that until recently.

And then when he said it, it made me feel like, oh, I'm not alone in that. But he talked about how he didn't realize how much of his identity was wrapped up being like the young pastor, and how like, he's so young and people are like, oh, you're so young and you're so wise and this and that and the other. And I feel like whenever I started doing stuff, I was like really young. I know I'm so young, but I was like 19. So that was like always a comment, like, oh,

you're so young and you said this or you're so young and you're wise or whatever it was. And like, I didn't realize it was like puffing up this like identity of so young and you're wise, whatever it was. And I didn't realize it was puffing up this identity of being young and having, I don't know, the opportunity or the knowledge or whatever it was, until then when we got married and had kids and I was like, oh, I don't feel like the young person anymore and is what I have to bring still good? Or was it only impressive because I was young doing it?

Is it still good now and who I am? And then you get in your head about like, what do I really bring? Do people want me to come because I am just relevant or because I'm actually bringing a word from the Lord? And I just got so in my head, had an identity crisis. I didn't even realize I struggle with that.

And you don't realize it until it's starting to get taken away. You don't realize it till the age changes or until you get the sickness or until the platform you thought was good, TikTok being banned, that's hurting a lot of people's identity. You don't realize it till it's taken away.

It's such a gift. When it is taken away. When it is taken away, because then you have to work through it and you realize like this is not something to root myself in. If you work through it believing what the Bible says, like believing what the Bible says about God and what the Bible says about us, then it's such a freeing thing because you realize you've been holding on to something that was so valuable, right? To what you thought.

And then you can, you're like, all of a sudden, everything's open-handed. So like, I remember even being like, oh, I don't even, I literally, I mean, I cared, but I was so overwhelmed with the love of God and that moment of like realizing, oh, like, I'm in the hands of the creator and he says he loves me beyond the heavens.

Like, so now it goes from like, wow, he's got me and I'll probably get healed, which thankfully I got my voice back, which is cool. And it was actually miraculous really fast. I always forget to say that part, but I got the surgery, I got checked on three weeks later and it was supposed to be like a six month process and three weeks later I got checked

and the doctors called the other doctors in and said we don't see any signs of a surgery. Phil, you can go back singing again, which is, I always forget to say that part, but there's literally, that miracle happens. That's so cool. Which is crazy. It's really cool.

At the end, you go from a place of literally being able to count it all joy, because it's like, oh, I'm in the hands of the Father. Yeah, a little bit of grief and sadness and toughness is, we still, Jesus said you'll experience tribulations, but He's overcome the world. And you go from the place of like looking at the tribulation to like, oh, I'm sitting with the overcomer. And so like I can, if I never sing again, if I'm mute, like that's God's plan for me. And then there's going to be joy in that and there's going to be satisfaction and blessing.

Like if I have to go on to something else, I can't wait to see what he has for me rather than like give that back to me. Yeah. It's a real free and cool thing. It's so true. It's so true. I love how you talked about like that moment where it was the most overwhelming, like heavenly moment.

What was the most, I guess, like have you all had those moments? I'm sure you have. What's one that you can remember in a songwriting session where it was just like, the words just came. Like it felt like heaven was near. Wow.

Anything come to mind for you? Yes. Um, it may not be a song that, um, that people have heard a lot, but a song called Heart Abandoned that was on a passion record. Dude, I love that song. Man. I love that song. Man, Sean Curran and I wrote that in 2016. And it was one of those moments. We spent the first couple hours just talking,

just brothers, friends, and talking about what's going on with our families. And then we started working on the song. And before we knew it, the song came really quickly, but we just lingered in the song for a long time and just worshiped. And both of us ended up, it was a very holy moment. And both of us just weeping together,

worshiping God together. I think that song, you know, the song originally was called Heart Like David. That felt a little interesting. And it's like, God give me a heart like David, you know, which is really beautiful, but we changed it to heart abandoned. But that was the prayer, you know,

where God said, He's a man after my own heart. He will do everything that I ask Him to do. He'll do everything I want Him to do. And we just wanted to be men like that, you know, husbands, fathers, yes, worship leaders, all those things. We just wanted God to look at our life and say, yes. It's so cool. And so anyway, it was a very desperate day. It was very, very cool. It was so cool. You listened to, very cool. It was so cool.

Yeah. You listened to it after this, it was great. Several, lots of moments pop in my mind. And one special one that again, it's not one that, it wouldn't be like the highest stream song of mine or whatever. It's called, His Name is Jesus. And it came out a couple of records ago.

But it started, we were singing, I was on a tour with some of my Bethel friends, we're on a Bethel tour, and we're singing, the darkest night, you can light it up, you can light it up, oh God, my voice is gone right now,

God of revival, oh no, no, the polyp, just kidding. No, no, no, no. I've just been singing the last four nights. And we're singing God of revival, and it was this moment, it felt like the whole room was just praying it together. And then we went into a John 3.16 thing of like, for God to love the world, we were like, everybody,

different people on the stage were continuing to carry the verse but singing around. And it was just a beautiful moment. And then someone else was singing, it was like this whole, there was five leaders and everybody was throwing in things. And like, and we know the name of the one who brings salvation.

And someone else is like, we know the name of the one. It was like this crazy beautiful moment. And then someone's like, what's his name? What's his name? What's his name? And I started, his so cool. And then someone's like, what's his name? What's his name? What's his name? And I started, his name is Jesus. And everyone's like, yeah!

That's crazy. It was just one of those moments. That's so cool. Did you plan this? But we totally did it. And so we, it was actually Callie. We started singing, his name is Jesus.

And a lot of the world, there's freedom in his name. You know, it was just a beautiful moment. And then someone went into a verse. It like, the song was written on stage, like half of it. Wow. And then, That's so cool.

Then the MC came out and was like, who's doing like our, he was the sponsor, or the sponsor of Raps, who's gonna talk about what our initiative was for the night. And he's like, the king is in the room. The king is in the room. It's like, yeah.

And then me and Brian Johnson, like that's the verse. Yeah. And then right then, side stage, like, the king is in the room. The king is in the room. It's like, yeah. And then me and Brian Johnson, that's the verse. And then right then, side stage, like, the king is in the room. Come see the scars of love upon his hands. The king is in the room. Wow. And then the verse in the song was written. That's so cool.

That's crazy. It was so cool. That's so rad. That is so cool. Does Jeremy Riddle sing that his name is Jesus? Is that a different song? I think that's a song that's been written since then. It's a new His Name is Jesus. We know all the His Name is Jesus is a different song. I think that's a song that's been written since then. It's a new, his name is Jesus. It's similar.

We know all that his name is Jesus we can get. Yeah. That's so cool. Do y'all feel like, so we started Elo Worship a few years ago, so I've gotten to write with them and it's been like just such an amazing process and so cool.

And I feel like there are some moments where you're like writing and you just feel like, wow. Like it feels like words are coming and spirits moving, flowing. And then other moments, it feels a little bit harder to find the words and stuff. But I feel like, and maybe this is just me, but like the ones that have, you know,

people have loved and people have really taken to heart. Like I didn't feel like that was gonna be the one, but it was. Like, do y'all feel like when you've written songs, have you known like this is going to be something that the church holds onto? Or has it been more of a surprise to you, the ones that God just kind of breathes on?

For me, the first song that kind of felt like it went across kind of international borders and was translated was actually back in 2013. It was like really connecting when I was silent, which was translated, was actually back in 2013, it was like really connecting when I was silent, which was wild, was a song called This Is Amazing Grace. Wow. It was just, it was a song that- That's so cool.

Like me and a buddy started like years earlier and we wrote the chorus and I forgot about it. And two years later, I got a demo from Jeremy Riddle saying, hey, I got this demo, I think it's you singing. We really liked the chorus. And I added these verses and we're leading, we're recording a Bethel worship record tomorrow. Can we put it on?

I was like, dude, I don't remember this song, but like, go for it. And then they recorded this song called This Amazing Grace. I'm like, oh yeah, I remember this verse, this chorus and bridge. And then I loved it. And so I tried to do it like Jeremy did it. And I just didn't have the Jeremy Riddle thing

because he's like, he goes from low to high. And I was like, let's just make it fun and upbeat. And so I can have like an upbeat song to play live. And then all of a sudden it was like, oh, it's translated into 16 languages. And like, this is crazy. And so that was a, for sure had no idea. And then also like, there's other songs

where I just, it's burning in my heart. Like I cannot wait. I know this is going to work at my church. I know this is gonna be, I can't wait to sing this with my church. I can't wait to sing this on the road. And that was like living hope for me. Yeah.

And I had no idea. I don't know if it's gonna be widespread, but there is a sense of like a few of these songs that's like, if it's burning in my heart to sing it, and then I do, and then I didn't even have to teach people, it just became a thing in the room. It's like, oh, cool, thank you, Lord, for this is gonna be a gift.

Again, you don't know about how widespread, but it felt like it went up really fast to him from the church. And so. That's so cool. I agree with that. A lot of times it's a surprise, but I do feel like you're saying,

almost like sometimes a song comes and you feel anointed to carry this song, God is giving the song for a moment. Yeah, those songs, I almost feel like, I forget I even wrote them. I feel like I just get to carry them. I heard someone else say for a moment. Yeah, those songs, I almost feel like, I forget I even wrote them. I feel like I just get to hear them. I heard someone else say that before too. Like an open channel.

Yeah. Yeah. He Who Is To Come was that way. When Cody and Sean were working on that song, we just had a real sense that God was speaking to His church. God was speaking to His people and reminding us of what's real, you know? And the hope we have in a coming King and a coming Kingdom, you know? So, yes, but a lot of times it's a surprise, you know? And a lot of times you think, oh, that's, man, that's the one.

Yeah, that happens more often. That happens more often. This is the one and then no one even cares about it. Turns out, no, it's not, you know? That's crazy.. That happens more often. That happens more often. This is the one and then no one even cares about it. Turns out, no it's not. That's crazy. That's cool though. When you- But the process is so beautiful. All of it is so good.

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How did that even happen? What was going on in your own heart and head in that moment? Because it is so cool to watch. We've watched that so many times in our house since the girls, when I'm putting them down in the morning, I'll just turn on worship. Just watching it is so amazing to see the evolution of how the Lord just began to touch each of your hearts on stage.

And y'all weren't even looking at each other. And then you're down, and Brett's down, and Chidamma. I mean, it was like the most amazing, it's so amazing to watch, but what was that like to lead a moment like that? It wasn't planned at all. We had not planned to lead that song at all during the conference and we hadn't talked about it.

I think that song is in all of our consciousness. It's Heaven's song, you know? And it's been sung for 30 years. That song, Michael W released it about 30 years ago. But we didn't plan on doing it. I just think the thing for us that year specifically in 24 and this year as well, like we just kept saying, like, just be ready, just be ready.

Let's be prepared for whatever he wants to do so that when he says move, or when he leads in a direction, we're like, we're pitched forward, like ready to move with him. And we don't know, none of us know, like what that's gonna look like or when it's gonna be or how it's gonna work.

But I just know that if I'm looking at Him and I know His voice, I know how He's, then I can move with Him. And that was just how our team, that was the posture of our team. And I'm not trying to be like, oh, like we, you know, but that's just what it was. We're like, let's just go with God.

That's so cool, can you see that? Well, that's like cool about your story too, when it's like five leaders who have the same moment and like you're logged into the spirit in the same way. So you're hearing the same thing, you're singing it, like, and it's not planned. It's the same thing where it was like, I mean, not even just y'all lead on stage,

like people who were playing in the back, like that was the craziest thing. The guitar player, I mean, it was like the whole room. It was a crazy synergy. And there's a lot of history, a lot of friendship. There's a lot of trust there, you know? And that's really cool how God put that group of people together, but it was just a really beautiful moment.

I think in some ways, like we knew, like we were headed towards something, just all the whole year. And I think probably you guys felt this too. Like we were, just felt like God was tilling the ground and preparing us for something. He was like, just be ready. And so, it was funny before that session, Louis kind of pulled me aside right before

we all prayed. And he had the run sheet. He said, this is all great. This is all fantastic. He's like, if you do it this way, it'll be awesome. He's like, but lead, lead the room. Wow. He's like, whatever's not on here,

he's like, go with God. Wow. And so walking out there felt like from my pastor and from my friend, I had this like- It's confidence. Just so much confidence and trust. That's so cool. Lead the room. So yeah, it was such a beautiful moment. We go like, it's confidence. Just so much confidence and trust. Cool. That's so cool.

So yeah, it was such a beautiful moment. We go back to it often too, you know. That's so cool. I think about that all the time. It was so funny, Christian was supposed to go up right after that, cause it was like, this Christian huff. That's right.

And he's looking up right, like, no, no, no, no. I was like, dude, I'm not going up there. I was feeling so bad for Christian, so I was like, oh my gosh. Not the best moment to follow up. Holy moment. It's so hard to break those moments. How do you like, what do you even do?

He goes from glory to glory. So I'm like, what's in store for me? Yeah. There you go, Christian. That's so funny. I want to ask a personal question. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead.

I've been trying to figure out for the last 15 minutes on how to articulate this, kind of the way I want it to come across. But how do you feel like in your life leading worship, you've wrestled with moments of feeling hypocritical of like, I'm wrestling with this, I'm struggling with this. This literally is what I was about to ask. I'm about to go lead. How do you manage being here? Because for me, I'm like, if I'm wrestling with something, I'm like, it's hard enough for me to sing worship in a crowd, let alone lead people in it.

If I had a jealous thought or lustful, whatever it might be, how do you kind of get past that moment of feeling like you're shameful and inadequate, but you also know what God's kind of leading you to step into. Such a great question. I'm thinking for someone listening that's like, I want to do this, but I'm struggling with X, Y, and Z. I can't, you know, go lead my youth group. I have a quick answer that's been incredibly effective is just believing the verse, which says, confess. I might be saying it slightly, correct me if it's not perfect,

but confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed. And the power of going to someone you trust and you respect, which I've got many, I got Christian and I got many guys on my team, it's like, hey, I'm struggling with this, or I fell short in this, or this has been on my mind, or I feel like my ego's, you know,

just being honest with myself and not just with the Lord, but speaking it, and it's this humbling thing, and it's like every time, you're like, something's fighting you from doing it, but you're like, I know if I just speak this out loud to my brother and say, I want this out of my life, and I want to do what Jesus talks about, like I want to repent, I want to change my mind of what's good from doing that,

because that's a fleeting thing, or that's stealing my joy or whatever it is. I'm going to repent of that, turn away and go into heaven, go into the Kingdom of God. And so when I speak out the stuff that I'm struggling with and say, can we pray together? I want this out of my life. Yeah. It's like immediate. Wow. It's wild.

It's wild. It's wild, and it's like, cool. And like we pray, Lord, I receive your grace. You love me. You don't love me less because of what I've just said with my mouth. You actually, you love me the same. But now I've opened up back a tunnel or a conduit

or whatever that I've closed with my own self shame. I've opened it back up to receive your love again. That's great. You know, so that's a huge, it or whatever, that I've closed with my own self-shame, I've opened it back up to receive your love again. So that's a huge, it's like, hey, it's done. Jesus has paid for it. I have openly said to my brother, I'm done with this, or I've been struggling with this, or I'm going through this, or I'm doubting, or whatever it is, can you pray for me? And it's like, the scriptures are true. Thank you, Lord. Let's go for it. That's right. That is exactly how I would answer that question. It's a quick repentance, just that rhythm of texting guys, calling guys, confessing to the Lord just quickly. And also, I just say, I think the Lord is honored by the struggle of it all, like the fight of it.

I think the fight is like proof of life. The Spirit and the flesh, they want different things. So, we will experience that in this life. The Spirit of God wants holiness, righteousness, walk with Jesus, and the flesh wants what the flesh wants. I think we walk through life, if we pretend like that's not happening, we're fooling ourselves and we're not living in reality. But I think living in that and knowing,

being so attuned to it and go, that thought or that whatever, that's not from God. And I just wanna bring that to you right now. That happens when we're leading sometimes. And I just step back and go, Lord, I just need to bring that to you right now. That happens when we're leading sometimes, you know? And I just step back and go, Lord, I just need to bring that to you right now. That thought that's like, that is not from you.

And it's pulling me out of what you're doing in this moment. So I just bring it to you right now. And I don't think he goes, I can't believe you had that thought. I think he's like, that's my son. That's my guy. Like, yes, that's how you walk. That's how you walk with him, just step by step.

I think he's honored by the fight in it, like the struggle of it. It's so encouraging. But just quickly, just do it quickly. And then you're in a place of like, hallelujah, God, thank you for the cross and the grave. I can't wait to just go out and sing and praise. Exactly right.

We have victory at our fingertips, you know? Yes. And sometimes you take so long to grab hold of victory at our fingertips, you know? Yes. And sometimes we take so long to grab hold of it. And it's just a sad thing. All we're doing is stealing joy from ourselves. And we're stealing the reality of what's actually happened, which is Jesus has already won, and He's welcoming us into that victory as well.

And we're missing it. We're missing the unfolding story in kingdom. Like, He wants us to participate with him. He wants us to get in the game, get off the sideline and get in the game. He wants to put us in the game. And if we're not doing what we're talking about, we get back on the sidelines and we miss it.

And it's so exhilarating, like being in his story and it's part of what he's doing on the earth. I don't wanna miss it. And it's so exhilarating, like being in his story and it's a part of what he's doing on the earth. I don't want to miss it. It's so good. I love that. That's so good. That's one thing I've been inspired by Christian is like him and his guy friends have just such a tight knit

of like confession and repentance. And all of the guys, like their wives, all of us, we're all best friends too, but we were not like that. And we were like very inspired by them, but we just hadn't like broken that ice yet. And finally one day we were like, okay, our husbands are like way better at this than us. And we were like, so we started something

called Confession Hour. And it was like once a week lunchtime with the girls. And like, we just got so good at confessing and repenting. And like, it just, it changed all of us. We were amazed at just the power and the freedom we felt because there's just, we had built it up and taken too long. We had built up this idea, like, oh, if you say that, then so much shame or what are people gonna think?

Or blah, blah, blah. As soon as you do it, you're like, oh my gosh, you're met with so much love and grace. And then yes, it fires you up for the gospel even more because you're like, I'm experiencing that victory, experiencing this Christmas, experiencing what this is all about. And so it was just really cool to see y'all set that example

and us step into that. And now we're like, our little confession hour is the best thing that happened to us. They're all super silent. It's so sweet. It makes me think of like, it was intention, is so intentional. Jesus set up, he set up His church to be in communion

and work together, a body, you know what I mean? That's right. If we're not alone in anything, then we're not living in the fullness of what He set up. That's exactly right. So I know we're starting to run out of time, but I love that y'all are on tour together, like you and Cody.

I wish Cody was here, but he's doing what he needs to be, doing hanging out with his guy friends and bros and mentors. So that's what we're talking about. He's living out the example right now. But what is that like? I know any of y'all could do your tour by yourself, but why do you choose to do it together? Everything's better when we're with buddies that you respect.

I mean, I love collaboration. Like if I had to be out here by myself every night, Everything's better when we're with buddies that you respect. I love collaboration. Like if I had to be out here by myself every night, I'd just be like, I mean, I'd still do it if that's what the Lord is calling me into. But yeah, specifically this tour, because we really lean on each other because, you know, you do, you guys have church and conferences and you do tours with a big band. I'll have my band, you know, summer worship nights with Brandon Legs, a big thing. Those are all awesome and fun. I love them. But every two years, I've been doing, maybe for the last 14 years, I've

been doing this tour called the Sing Along Tour. And it's all about stripping away as much as possible to get to a place of like, how can we just be a couple guys on stage, maybe a piano, a couple of guitarists, maybe a piano, a couple of guitarists, and a room full of people that wanted to chase after the presence of God with us, and just get back to heart of worship,

get back to the people of God being the loudest thing in the room. Not because we've been doing it wrong anywhere else, not because this is the best way to do it, but because there's something so beautiful, I think the whole room feels our vulnerability and our roundness and the fact like, that if they don't come ready to join us,

then like this is kind of like, like this is what it's about us all in it together. Now we say at the beginning of the night, like, hey, thanks for coming. Like, if this is new to you, if you're trying to figure out Lord awesome, like welcome, we pray he blesses you. But for anybody who believes these things, like this is a place for us to sing together,

because it says the word this and this and this, and this is what we're taking advantage of today, and like so let's do it. You guys are, we're all kind of in it together, you know, it's current, it creates this sense of vulnerability and rawness, but also beauty and like something about every, like the church preaching to itself feels so, all right, teaching, I can't remember the beginning of the verse, but teaching and admonishing one another in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your hearts to the Lord. That's like the one verse in the New Testament that we have like a real call, a missional call of what does it mean for people to sing together. And it doesn't say go and

follow the two guys on stage and then it's gonna, and let them pass through you. It's almost like the room's supposed to preach to each other as the faith rises up and unified. It's like this side to this side. And that's what I feel like sing along does in a really special way. And also the fact that we're all on stage together,

like leading each other's songs, getting each other's back. You stop playing and pick up the mic and I start playing guitar behind you. There's just a real sense of community that is unlike any other tours that I do. So true. It's kind of like camp. Like it brings you back to the heart of camp.

Yeah, I love that. It does feel that way. I also love about it, especially with this tour, like just the representation of the body, it's just so different. Like Phil, Cody, myself, Donnie, we're all just so uniquely gifted and express the beauty of God in different ways, you know?

And it's cool to see how, like the configuration, how it all comes together, the display of His glory in the room. It's fresh, it's unique, it's different, it's beautiful. And it is so much better to do it with your friends. It's the best. It's just, it's unique, it's different, it's beautiful. And it is so much better to do it with your friends. It's the best. It's just the best. I think that's so cool in worship,

like in the worship world, it seems like there's so many collabs. And like, I think that's beautiful. Cause yeah, it's not about one person. It's the church and coming together. And I love that so much. So how long are you guys on tour? For those listening.

We started, another cool thing about sing along tours because it's so light, you know, they're not bringing a PA, big huge PAs or lights. We can kind of, we can fly in, do some dates and fly out. And so we're doing like a week in January, which we're almost done with. And then we're out doing our things for a couple of weeks and we get together again a week in February.

And then we're out doing our things and then two weeks in March and then a week in April. And it's done. So it's 20 dates total, but over four months. So it's really sustainable on the family side to be able to still serve at church. That's awesome. So yeah, so it'll be 20 dates by the time we hit April.

That's so cool. So for you guys listening, you can go check it out, go see them in person. I know it's gonna be absolutely amazing. I'm so thankful for this conversation. This was so good. It's so cool to see people that you admire and look up to, but then really hear their heart.

And it's just as pure as you would hope for, you know? Just you guys love the Lord. And it's so cool to see the overflow that has led you guys to in leading worship the way you do, but just the lives you live, the husbands you are, the fathers you are, the friends you are, we are both so inspired by that. So thanks for stopping by and being on the podcast. We love you guys. We're having a great conversation with you guys. We're so thankful for you, your family. Thanks for being a huge voice of truth and life into this world and praying blessing over you guys as you continue to minister and so many eyes are on you

and just that God would, you just sense the grace and peace of God like never before. Thank you so much for saying that. Thank you.