WHOA That's Good Podcast - Redemption After Adultery: Al & Lisa Robertson Part 2

Episode Date: July 31, 2024

Sadie is excited to share the second part of Al and Lisa Robertson’s story, where the twists and turns keep coming. Lisa reveals her tumultuous past that includes sexual abuse and an extended affair during the first half of their marriage, and Al describes the effect of those revelations on his ministry at the time. Sadie is inspired by their trust in the Lord to help them overcome such traumatic experiences and still have joy, peace, and sacrificial love for each other. This Episode of WHOA That's Good is Sponsored by: https://drinkag1.com/whoa — Get a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D3+K2 AND 5 free AG1 Travel Packs with your first subscription! https://everylife.com — Get 10% off your first order when you use promo code WHOA at checkout! https://sadiepens.com — Stock up on Mr. Pen Bible journaling supplies today! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, friends? Happy Wednesday. I'm literally popping into the studio real fast to just let you know that this is actually part two of a conversation with my uncle Alan and Aunt Lisa. Y'all, it was so amazing in the studio that day. We only planned to record one podcast, but we ended up talking for like an hour and 45 minutes

because their story was just so powerful. I couldn't get enough of it. And what's really cool is a lot of you guys even commented last week and said, please tell me there's a part two. So here it is, your part two. If you haven't listened to part one yet, stop now, go listen to part one because they are just incredible. And I want you to know the heart of the conversation

that you're jumping into. ["I'm On My Way To You"] Okay, so you talked about how it's an ongoing struggle. Like sin has consequences and even when you come to Christ, you still have to face some of the consequences that sin had. And I think that's such a good word because I think so many people come to Christ with the expectation that then their life's going to be good and it should work out because when you see Doug Dynasty Family 2017 and you see the 1972, you don't fill in the gap of all that happened.

You just see like the bow, you know, the end kind of, oh, it worked out, but you don't see the years of like how that kind of shaped out. So when y'all got married, like when did, was it a good marriage, a healthy marriage? When did you start preaching? Like how did, how did y'all just launch into getting married after such a wild turn of events? Well, it was definitely a struggle early. We were together and that was great and but

we didn't even have a house or places place to we lived the first six months in my grandparents front bedroom Wow and so every night we would laugh ourselves to sleep at night listening to them snore two rooms over because they had each they had kind of a competing snoring she would have more of a and he would have a of a whee whee whee whee whee and he would have a whoo. So they would go together. So it'd be- It's like a dog chasing a cat. Yeah, it'd be like whee whee whee whee whee whee whee. That's hilarious.

So that was our first six months, which was a lot of fun. But you know, so, but we got, we just didn't, we didn't really talk to anybody. We didn't have a game plan. And you know, in terms of where we were going to go. Which is crazy because y'all do marriage counseling for other couples, but y'all didn't have that.

No, we've had so many couples now. Exactly, which again is why we like to talk to people, because we're like, learn from us, you know? And, but we, so we had a little place next to mom and dad we finally bought down there, and just, it just got moved recently, but it was just a little small camp house, and it was our first house.

But we didn't know how to have a good marriage. And so, and Lisa finally grew to resent me being so close to mom and dad and going over it and leaving her there by herself. And so I'm working for the company and I'd go over at night and dad and I would watch Johnny Carson and Letterman. I was just living like I did before I had a wife. And so I was creating huge problems for us,

because I didn't quite sever that tie. And so that was one of the issues we had. And then Lisa only grew up with yelling at each other, and that was kind of a relationship she had had with her mom. And so she's yelling, well, we didn't do that. We weren't yellers, that's not what we did. And we weren't pervert, we didn't do that. And so she would yell at me, she'd come yell at me in front of mom

and dad. And it just, we, it created a lot of tension, I think, in our marriage. And we look back on it, we realized we just, we didn't know. We weren't, we weren't learning from people how to, you know, build a good base and a good foundation. And we loved each other. I think Lisa, and you can speak to this, but also I had had a real experience coming to Christ of I had surrendered all of it that day on my street. I mean, it was one of those things I wish I'd never gone through it,

but now that I look back, I'm glad it got me where I need to be. But Lisa really didn't have that. And so she kind of just kind of swept in with me. And she had always, when she speaks to people now, she said she was always looking for a knight in shining armor to save her from her past and her issues. It wasn't just the abortion.

She had been sexually molested by an uncle. She was a child. And so she had a lot of stuff in there. And again, she had never really dealt with that. She'd never seen a counselor. I mean, she's just kind of carrying those burdens. And so I think she sort of attached in to me and our family and really never had that relationship with Jesus. And so even the first 15 years we were married, we just had this constant tension and we weren't on the same page, you know, in terms of our spiritual growth as well as just our marriage and husband and wife growth.

And so, I don't know, you can take it from there, but that was part of the problem. Well, I think whenever you get married, each of you come together and each person has had a lifetime, you know, however old you were. You've got that many years of things that you've gone through. And what we always say is that whenever you get married, you pack it in a suitcase and you just put it under the bed, you put it in the closet, you put it wherever, just to get it out of the way.

Because those experiences now are gone. Those issues you had, they're all gone. Because now I'm married, you know? And what's crazy about that is if you don't talk through those things that you've experienced, Satan will come back and open up those suitcases. And that's what he did with us. He came through, you know, being sexually molested as a child and then also having an abortion. My whole life, I pretty much thought that my purpose was to please men. And Alan was no different. And so whenever he left me at 16 or 15, whenever he left when I was 15,

and then the abortion at 16, I get him back at 18 and I'm like, I'm marrying him, I'm not letting him go. Wow. Well, so here's what Phil tells him. Phil says, convert her or cull her. Convert him or cull him. That's what he used to say. I did not want to be culled. I mean, you know. Who wants to be culled? I'll take the first option, Kimber. And so really whenever I accepted Christ, I accepted Christ underneath Alan.

So Alan was the God. Wow. And then Jesus was underneath there. He kind of went along with the package. Yeah. And if I've got to have- You can see when that gets messed up. Oh, for sure. To have him, if I've got to have him, if I've got to have him,

then I'll go with it. Because my family, we're not very spiritual people. Like I said, we only went to church on holidays. And so I feel like that whenever we come into a marriage that way, and we don't share all there is that we've went through, and I shared some, you know, but we just didn't get counseling

to overcome those things. So in the back of my mind, Satan still has got this little thing in my head that says, your job is to please men. So fast forward 15 years into our marriage, and I saw this guy that I used to go to school with and he said all the right things, you know? She was working for Duck Commander. I was. And so, you know, he was buying some stuff

and she was the contact person to do it and all of a sudden Satan sets a trap. That's right. But I mean, he knew how to do it. He knew all of my weaknesses and what I needed. And this is not an excuse, but Alan was working at the church at this time. He was gone on trips.

Missing trips. Yeah. All around the world. And just, when something happened at the church, he had to be at the church. And so I was always stuck at home with the kids, you know? And again, I'm not saying that's an excuse, but I think in order to understand somebody, you need to know the reasons why things happen and why people do what they do. And what I tell young pastors now when I get the opportunity

is, I mean, you wanna love the bride of Christ, his church. I mean, it is fantastic. But as a husband, you don't wanna love the bride of Christ more than your own bride and your own children. Yeah, it's good. And so you've gotta keep those things in line. So I've learned from that what she's described me, because without meaning to,

you help create an atmosphere and a recipe for the evil one to come in and do what he did to us. That's so true. You hear so many people actually share that. Like a lot of wives who are marrying to pastors who share similar things, they're gone so much that sometimes you start to feel that resentment towards him and the church

and different things. Yeah. So that's where you were at. And so that's kind of where I was at, and Satan knew just the trap to set, and he did. And so I had a 14-month affair. Wow. And it was never, my intention was never to hurt Alan. I mean, I know that seems weird

that you're doing this against your husband, but he was the one person that I never wanted to hurt. And he was the one person that I hurt the worst. But see, again, the evil one tells you things like that. He says, oh, nobody's ever gonna find out about, so nobody's gonna get hurt, you know. And so the darkness just continued to grow and grow and grow.

And I had never been honest. So at seven years old is whenever my uncle started molesting me. So at seven years old, I learned to be dishonest because I couldn't tell anybody. Wow. And so that's whenever I started wearing, you know, the face of everything's okay,

but inside, you know, nothing is okay. Yeah. And we do that all the time. I mean, just like what you were talking about, people look at other people and they go, oh, they've got it all together. Look at their Facebook page. Look at their Instagram. Just look at them. Everything in their life is perfect. But not a lot of people put the trash out there. That's right. Yeah, that's right. They keep that with them. But, so, 14 months, the whole 14 months,

or probably 12 out of the 14 months, I would pray for a way out. Because I knew it wasn't right. And I'd pray for, Lord, please open a door. And even I'd be going over the bridge there, the big bridge going from Monroe to West Monroe, and I'd think, you know, if I went off the side of this bridge, nobody would ever know. And so finally, you know, every time God would answer, by the

way, He answered every time, but his answer was honesty. That was the word that I kept getting was truth. You have to tell the truth. So this went on for 14 months. Alan knew something was up, just couldn't quite put a finger on it. And so he got some proof and one night we came home from a West Monroe High School football game and he interrogated me for hours into the night. Because I knew the truth now,

but I couldn't get her to say it. Yeah. You know, because she was at that, she was just right on the edge of this, you know, now I look and see this chasm of if I finally go over the cliff, if I tell the truth, if I tell what's gonna happen, I'm rejected forever.

Yeah. And so it was like the last clutches of darkness and evil just holding on to her heart, you know? Wow. And I'm just like, we're going to get to truth. And so I was like, so we just kept at it and we were in the bathroom of our house at that time, which was as far away as you could be from where the kids are.

Anna and Alex were probably like 10 and 12 at the time. And we were just like going around and around and over and over. And she would move a little bit and then she would back up. And it was just like this all night until finally she just broke. And it was like someone had blown up the Hoover Dam because like when it broke, she just, it gushed out. We call it truth vomit now.

And you read Psalm 51 and you see David's heart. That's what you see David's heart, that's what you see, just a gush of honesty. And so, and tell her what you, about the mirror, I think that's really... Well, I kept praying. The whole time he was, you know, interrogating me, I was praying. I was like, God, get me out of this situation. What am I going to do? What am I going to do? And he just kept saying, tell the truth, trust me, tell the truth.

And so finally I thought, okay, I'm just going to have to trust him. And I told Alan, I was like, but if I tell you the truth, you're going to leave me, you're going to divorce me. And he said, I'm leaving if you don't tell me the truth. And so at that point I thought, you know, I have nothing to lose I guess.

And so after I spilled it all out and probably told him more than he ever wanted to know, I looked in the mirror because we were in the bathroom and I had no idea who I was looking at because I thought, who is this person and how did I get to this place? Because you're not standing in front of a preacher with your soon-to-be husband and saying, you know, one day I think I'll have an affair. I mean, the evil one sets these things up, you know? And so I was just looking and thinking, who is this person?

I did not recognize my own self. And so he told me then, he said, you're going to have to leave. And so I was like, oh, I don't have anywhere to go. I mean, where am I going? I did not want to go home to my parents because they had always been, my mom had always been against us anyway.

And I thought, I will not admit defeat to her. And I had run, we had had fights before and I run back and forth. And it just caused even more problems between the four of us. so I said okay I just got to find a place to go you know and so I said I'm going outside and so our door led to the backyard and I went outside and I just fell in the grass and if I could have dug down and got deeper I would have because I thought that's how far I just fell in the grass. And if I could have dug down and got deeper, I would have because I thought that's how far,

I just need to get under the earth. I'm not even fit to be on top of this grass. And so I'm laying out there. And at that point, I'm thinking, I have nothing. Because Alan said, you're leaving and you're not taking the girls. And so I thought, I have no husband, I have no house, I have no children. At this point, your dad and your mom were like my brother and sister.

Jason and Missy were like my brother and sister, you know? And so I've lost my family, I lost everything. And so I'm just out there on the ground and I'm thinking, oh, how did I get here? And so I cry out to God and I just say, God, I don't know if I even have ever had a relationship with you. I don't know that I even believe that you're real.

Because if I believed, how did I get to this point? But God, I'm asking you, I need some help here. And if you are real, if you are really out there, would you please come and rescue me? And it was the most surreal experience I ever had because I felt as though he was there with me and he was picking me up and he was holding me. It was amazing. And so I feel like he set me up and he put me on holy ground, you know?

In the words that I got that day or that evening, morning, I don't even know, it was five o'clock in the morning probably. It was the morning. Yeah. Wow. Was, you have me. I'm yours and you are mine. And whenever I felt that, I thought, okay, I can make it. Even if we

did not get back together, which that was my heart's desire, was to get back together. I wanted to change who I was, but it was always to get to make our family whole again. And, but I knew then that it didn't matter, that I could make it even if we didn't get back together. Because now, now I had Christ on my side. We all have goals in our life and especially for our health. And who wouldn't like those goals to be a little bit easier, right? AG1 is a quality product and its ingredients are sourced, especially for nutrients, density, and absorption. Every batch goes through rigorous testing

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You know it was amazing Saturday. That was a Saturday morning and she went up to Paula and John, John, Godwin and Paula and they lived across the street and so she wound up staying with them and Paula was her best friend and Paula called me and first thing she did was apologize because I had known for a while that I thought Lisa was having an affair and Paula thought I was just being judgmental and crazy, because Lisa was a good liar, just like I was when I was young. But they were there for us in such a powerful way.

But I worked for the church, and I wasn't the main pastor, but I was a pastor on the staff. I just couldn't even go in Sunday and face. I was in a shell. I just like wrapped myself in a blanket. It was laying on the couch and John was there with me. And, you know, I wasn't answering the phone. So I had no idea what happened. But Lisa went in that morning to our church,

that BFR, the one you grew up in. And when it came time at the end, because we kind of have a family time of response, she marched right down that aisle with a letter that she had written and handed it to whoever was there and just for the first time, just laid it out. And she did it to the whole church.

At this point, nobody knew anything. A few leaders probably my friends knew because I'd probably called them that day. But I was so glad about it because, look, churches go through difficulty when a pastor has an issue. I know it's hard because the church is there and you're thinking, how do I leave? I ought to be honest, we're in crisis. But no one tried to manage it. Lisa was just so broken, she didn't know where else to go. And so she went to the one place where she felt like she finally needed to be honest

because now God had lifted her up. And I'm so glad it happened that way because if we had done it like the church way, we had to try to manage how we told it and all that. Instead it was just out there. And it was the best thing that ever happened for us because later on I realized how strong my wife was because she could have just ran and not wanted to face that because you know

You had to face everything and so from I tell her at the time I couldn't stand to see her But it but in the later in that moment. I realized that she was one of my heroes Because she was so strong and faithful to God She and God had made a pact out there on the backyard that night. And now she wasn't gonna be afraid to tell anybody, this is what God has done. And so it changed her, it changed us. It was a rough patch for us to get back together.

We did, we went to counseling and that was 25 years ago this year. We're almost to the 25 year place of that night, 40 years total, obviously. And we've never looked back. And a few years ago, we came to the place, because we became, say, we were the 911 for our community. If anybody had a bad situation, they were like,

well, I know there's a couple over there, I've heard their story at WFR. And so we would just meet with all these couples, one after the other, in an affair, just terrible situation. We've had multiple times where a spouse admitted to their spouse about an affair in front of us for the first time. Wow. Like that same experience we had. And so we realized in that moment that God was using us for something to impact people because we had found something in Him. And so when

we look back now, a few years ago, we were able to finally say, you know what? As bad as it all was, and as hard as it was to get through, we wouldn't change anything because of who we are in Christ now. And as much as we regret sinful behavior, I wouldn't, if I could go back, I wouldn't change anything because the last 25 years of what we've been able

to experience as a married couple and as a couple who have found bread like a beggar and offering it to somebody else, we wouldn't change it. Wow. Or anything. That is like, I am a little bit speechless because I've heard you share the story. I've never heard it in that detail.

And for people listening, I've actually never been at a church outside of our church and I've had really the unique honor to be in a lot of different churches and see how different people do church. I've never seen a church like WFR have the moment where at the end of church, what you do is like people who feel like they need to confess something

or need elders to pray over them. They go all the way to the front. And this isn't like a tiny church. This isn't like 50 people. This is like, how many people? 15, I mean like a thousand people like are there. And so people go to the front and they confess in front of the whole church

kind of things that they're struggling with or things they need prayer with. And I've never seen that anywhere else besides WFR, which I think is one of my favorite parts of WFR and just how it really is a family and a community and confession is a big part of it and prayer is a big part of it. You see people go through some highs and some lows.

And so I just wanted people to understand, like you went forward to the church of about a thousand people and confess, and you were one of the pastor's wives. Like you never hear that. And I mean, I had never heard something like that, but I was just thinking here recently, I was listening to some pastor talk about

maybe he had an affair in the fall and it's been a couple of years and now he's coming out with it. And what was the saddest thing to me is that they didn't have the church to come to because the church abandoned them because you're the pastor, you're not supposed to do that, abandoned.

And then no other church was taking them in because their name carried so much baggage, which I was like, that is the saddest thing because I'm sure him and his wife have sat with so many people when they had affairs, when they went through broken times, when they went through kids going through stuff, like they came to them, but then when they had affairs, when they went through broken times, when they went through kids going through stuff, like they came to them, but then when they go through it, they have no one to

turn to. And so I just think it's amazing that, you know, with you in that moment, you went to God first, and then God led you to go to the church. And then because that's, that's his people, that's his body, and that you were able to like confess, like that's doing what scripture actually tells us to do. And they sometimes church acts more like, you know, like a, I don't know, like a machine, like a, this is the way you do things. And just like a body, then just like a family,

then just like a honest confession. And so I think that's really beautiful. I hope people listening to this feel the freedom that no matter who they are, what status they have in the church, if they're living in sin, it needs to come to the light. And, you know, it's so crazy. You said that about a mirror because I just showed you this mirror we have.

And one of the reasons we got this, because me and my friend were talking. And one of the like most pivotal times in my life was coming out of a really bad time. And I was just, this was my high school craziness. And I was crying and just like, how am I here? Why do I keep doing this? And then I looked in the mirror and it was like,

I saw myself for where I was at. And I was like, whoa, how'd you get so far off? You know, and it was like a confronting moment. I had a friend who went through the same thing She was living super double life Very hypocritical lifestyle as far as everyone thought she was kind of church girl but she was just partying hard in college and had just a lot of different things going on no one knew about and She was at someone else's house drunk woke, saw herself in the mirror and was like,

what am I doing? Like it's like a confronting moment. And I think like, especially in a world where, well, I used to, you filtered your life by lying. Now you can like literally filter your life. Like you can filter it on social media to look a certain way and present yourself a certain way or whatnot. And you start to believe that that's true, even though you know it's not. But there's something so confronting about a mirror because you can't put a filter on it. That's where you're at. That's what you look like. And so I think sometimes you do have to look yourself

in the mirror and see where you've come so that you can know, I gotta change. Something's gotta happen. So that's just absolutely amazing that you had that moment with God and then went to friends. You didn't stay alone. And I think that's just absolutely amazing that you had that moment with God and then went to friends, you know, like you didn't stay alone. And I think that's so important.

But now to here where y'all are at 15 years later, you say 15 years? 25. 25 years later. That was 15 years in the marriage. Now 25 years later and being where you're at and now like counseling people and going through this. One of the things that like, when I think about you two, I think about how funny y'all are and how joyful y'all are.

And I remember one time like telling mom that like you were just one of the funniest people and Lisa's like, she's just so funny. And mom was telling me like back in the day, you weren't like that. Like when y'all were going through, maybe even before y'all were going through that, you didn't have that, like you, I guess,

maybe you had that in you, but it was hidden. And like, mom, one of her favorite things is now to see your laugh and how funny you are. But that's been established for so long now. How did y'all get back to the place of just joy and like being the funny, like lovable, loving couple y'all are now 25 years later? Did it happen? I don't know, like how long did it take for y'all to get back there? Because I think people going through that now who are listening to this, they're like wanting to hear there's hope for them and not just like hope,

like it's gonna be okay, but it's gonna be better. And I think that's what's significant about y'all's life. Like you said, 15 years were kind of hard, but then like the last 25 years were better. So how did it start to get better? Well, and look, you have to allow God to build that. And it does take time. I mean, it wasn't right off the bat.

We were very raw. I remember the first marriage retreat we went to, and it was only the second one our church did at the time. And, you know, Joe Neal and Randy, who were some of our best friends, and your aunt and uncle, you know, had thisal and Randy, who are some of our best friends and your aunt and uncle, you know, had this great blessing for doing this. And I just remember us being there,

we were only three months removed, like we were from being back together. And so we were raw, you know, and I had stepped back from ministry, so I was, I had nothing to do, I'm just sitting there as a participant and trying to learn how to be better. And I remember it was awkward because I was so used had nothing to do, I'm just sitting there as a participant and trying to learn how to be better. And I remember it was awkward because I was so used to being up front, but at the same

time I realized that moment, I needed to be down here. We needed to start over and try some new things that were better. And so I think it was a great experience for both of us and we just began to build that. And I don't know, I don't have a time I can point to specifically, but I can tell you it was a few years of learning, of having wise counsel, of walking with other people. And mainly, I'll tell you where we got our joy, Sadie, was it was by going through it with other people. Like, because every time we would help somebody else find a place of healing,

we felt like we healed and got stronger. That's cool. And it really, so this idea about paying forward, grace you don't pay back, you pay it forward. Because you can't pay it back. I mean, for what God has done for me and His grace, but I can pay forward. That's good.

And every time I do that, every time we did that, every time I would see Lisa be so vulnerable and share with somebody, because for years it was hard for me to trust her because we'd gone through this. It's just natural, normal human things. But at the same time I was just watching this woman, just like your mom describes,

just like a flower that blooms. And to be honest, I mean, she has gotten prettier in the sense that not just physical beauty, but an inner beauty that comes out, kind of what you read about in Galatians and other places, that has come out so strong in her, that that's how people see her now. And it really is because that night outside,

and then combined with my time as an 18 year old, it took a while for us to sync up where Christ's story now is fully our story. That's cool. It was always there for us. And so I would say even to your audience, because there's a lot of young people that listen to you, and you may not even have these experiences yet,

but you will, because the evil one is out there, he's active, he sets traps, he does things. He's prowling. He's prowling, but at the same time, every one of you can link, and the quicker you do it, the better. And I gotta say, you said some nice things earlier about me and my preaching and the impact it had on you, but you don't know how much of impact you've had on me and us.

Because I gave away my teenage years to the Eve one. And so what you did to go from our TV show to then the next platform, Dancing with the Stars, and then the next platform to do what you're doing now. I mean, that's so inspiring to us, you know? We so appreciate that. So I feel like I get to live out, the one period of my life I regret, I've sort of lived that out with what God has done

through you and that same message and same ability to be able to proclaim to people. So you've even inspired us more than you'll ever know. We'll call you our rock star whenever we're speaking somewhere. We'll meet some place and we'll see if you're at Passion or some place where like, oh you go girl, you're doing it. And even now, you're married, you got two beautiful children, and we love Christian. And so I watch your young family grow. And now this audience has been with you a long time, both before that ever happened, is you guys are learning that grow. And now this audience has been with you a long time,

both before that ever happened, is you guys are learning that together. And so you're just sharing that wisdom from God's word. So that's what paying it forward means for us. So I think for us, when we can, and every time even to this day, when we are able to have an impact, we get a letter, an email from somebody,

because now the way the Lord has directed us, we don't have as much direct contact, knee to knee with couples anymore. Although, we still do it as much as we can. When we're in town, we're used to meeting with somebody. But all these years later, it's now the larger groups, the bigger audiences. But when I get an email from somebody,

or we get something to our website, and someone has found something in our book, and they say, you know, I read your book and, you know, now we're on this better path. And I mean, it continues to bring that joy to us. It's the best thing. Yeah, it's awesome. It's so encouraging. Being a mom to my girls is my favorite thing ever.

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use the promo code WOE at checkout to get 10% off your first order today. everylife.com with a promo code WOE to save 10% off your first order. Thank you for saying that. That actually really means a lot. And it's so cool, because even what that lady said to me that time about she wasn't really a fan of what I was doing because she just thought, of course you're doing that. You have a family.

And at first it's like, well, it's kind of offensive, but also I'm grateful I have a family who is the way that they are. And they preach the way that they preach. And that because of that, I've learned that and I do the same thing. And the same way that I look at y'all and I'm like, well, I'm just like you, I'm honest like y'all

and my eyes water like you. And I turn everything into a message and I preach it because that's what we do, because that's who we are. Because that's what we believe. And like, it's so cool just to see that it's like in our DNA but that's like you said, you find your joy through doing it with people besides you. That's like what our family has been able to do together.

So I tell people, like when people say, how did you, you know, go from Dancing with Stars to preaching or how did you not go crazy with the fame, how like a lot of younger people do, especially like, I think a lot of the other, like the kids, like Bella and Lily, Mia, they're a little bit younger when the show was, and then Reed Cole, gentlemen, or guys, I'm like a teenage girl, which is definitely prime time

for losing your mind when you become famous. But I'm like, I wasn't famous alone. I wasn't getting that alone. I was doing that with my entire family. So I got to see see the adults in my family who were also taking something new, something they hadn't experienced, but they got to do it with a lot more wisdom

under their belt. They got to do it with a lot more grace to themselves, a lot more, they had been living for Jesus for a long time. So I got to learn from adults and that was so helpful. I was like, had that had just been me, that would have been a lot harder. But to go in it with a family and to see y'all all experiencing the helpful. I was like, had that had just been me, that would have been a lot harder, you know? But to go in it with a family and to see y'all all experiencing the same thing I was

and how y'all were navigating it, and what did you guys do with it? You preached the gospel. So I was like, that's what I'm gonna do, you know? And so I think that's just really, really cool that you said that, and y'all see that in me. And sometimes I hear Pebble Phil saying things about me, and you know, he didn't really say that to my face,

but I know he's saying it. I know he's proud of me. And so I'm very thankful for that. But yeah, y'all have come such a long way. And you know, it's so crazy because one of the things I never want to do to someone when they come on the podcast and you guys have done it is sit here and have to talk about all the hard things

in your life, because it's heavy. Like as someone who gets interviewed often, it's hard when everyone wants to just talk about the hardest things in your life. And you're like, I'm so grateful this is my story, but this is the hardest thing in my life, you know? So it's heavy. So I don't wanna just throw all the hard things

because the things that I know about y'all to be true, and you know, that was 25 years ago, I'm 27. I only know the good side of some of y'all. I only know the positive, the joy-filled, the funny, you coming up and pinching our butts because that's what you do. Y'all are crazy in the best way. I love y'all's little booties.

I know, see? That's like, I remember telling Christian, I can't wait for you to meet Aunt Lisa because I was like, she's gonna pinch your butt. She's gonna pinch her butt. Like she is. So I'm like, that's what I know about y'all. But y'all just went through something else recently

that was a hard time. And Lisa, do you want to share a little bit about the season that y'all have just walked through and kind of where you're at now? Sure. And I will tell you this about joy. Joy is one of those things that you don't have unless you have the spirit of Christ inside of you.

Because joy is one of his fruits. So you have to have his spirit in order to have joy. And people can be happy, you know, and because happy comes from what's happening in your life. You know, but so the joy has to come from the Lord. So back in February, I guess, the first part of February, it was a little bit cold, you know, and as you get older and you go through menopause,

sometimes you're having hot flashes and sometimes you're freezing to death. It's just the way it is, yeah. And so one day I did like this, cause I was cold. And I went, what is that? And it was a knot that was in my breast. And so I go over and I'm like, ow, feel this.

I said, it's a knot in there. And he's like, yeah. And I said, what do you think that is? He said, I don't know. You probably just need to go and talk to Michelle and let her look at it and see. She's our friend, but also our nurse practitioner. And so I said, okay.

So I didn't really think about it anymore. So I called her and I just said, Michelle, I need to come in and talk to you and let you look at this on me. So anyway, so I go in and she says, I always want to be safe and not sorry. So let's go ahead, get you an appointment and you go in and just let a professional look at it.

So that's what I did. So on February the 13th, happy Valentine's Day to me. Oh gosh. I went in and had a mammogram and an ultrasound done. And I had not had a mammogram for four years since COVID because I had it in 2020 and it was such a pain and just the whole thing that I went through in 2020 that I was just like, I mean mammogram was a bad word, you know. And so I went ahead and had the mammogram done and then they did an ultrasound and so the guy calls me back there after he does the ultrasound and he said, now I can't tell you anything definite

until we do a biopsy, but here's your 2016 mammogram and there's nothing there. Here's your 2020 mammogram and there was a little spot there and here's your 2024 mammogram and you know this looks like cancer to us. And so he said but we have to do a biopsy and I said okay. So I come home and tell Al and so we do a biopsy and I believe it was March the 11th they called me and said you have cancer. And so whenever they called I said okay well what kind do I have, what stage am I in? They're like we have no idea. We don't know anything about that. You gotta go see somebody else. You gotta go see another doctor for that. Okay, all right. And so anyway, you know, people might say coincidence. I've been talking with Katie Martinez and talking to her about insurance and some other

stuff and so she had just had breast cancer surgery in November, the year before in 2023. And so she said, oh I told her about it, and she said, oh okay, look here's what you did. That's so Katie. Here's the telephone number to the center that you call and here's the two doctors. You call and you say I want to make an appointment with them because because I have cancer and and I want these two doctors. I want this doctor is going to be the one that takes the cancer out and this doctor is going to do the reconstruction." And I said, okay. And she said, now it's probably going to take you a couple of months to get in. And I said, all right. So I called the

center and they said, well when can you come in? And I said, well, I'm actually going to Gulf Shores next week, because we have our second house in Gulf Shores. And so I said, you know, I could come by next week if you have something. They're like, sure, how about you come on this day? I mean, just a week later. And so I called Katie and I was like, Katie, I have an appointment next week.

And she's like, you are kidding me. It took me months to get in there. And so anyway, so I go to this doctor and you know, it's probably three weeks in between all of that that I go and see, you know, first when I have the ultrasound and all of that. And so there's a little anxiety because you don't know. But the one thing that Katie told me that day on the phone, she said, call this number and do not get on your computer. Do not Google what they told you you have.

And I said, okay. That's good advice. And she said, I'm serious. If you do it, you're gonna be so regretful that you did. She said, because it's gonna scare you, it's gonna tell you all these bad statistics. And she said, don't do it. And I said, okay.

And so I didn't. And so the first thing that I know about my cancer is for me to go in and talk to these doctors in New Orleans. And so the first one was, his name was Dr. O. And so I go in and talk to him and he goes, yeah, so I'm looking here, I'm looking at your tests, and you know, it just looks like it's just contained in this one. It is invasive, because there's so many different kinds out there. But he said, it looks like it is invasive, which just means that it's coming out

of whatever it was in, it's coming out of whatever it was in, it's coming out of it. And he said, so, you know, we probably just need to go ahead and get this done. But he said, you know, if you have a double mastectomy, I don't think you're going to have to have chemo or radiation. I think we can just take care of all of this. And I had had another test done on my lymph nodes. And he said, it doesn't look like it's in your lymph nodes. So look, that's all we got to do. Let's just do this. Let's take it out. And he said,

And what we loved about him was he spent an hour. He drew diagrams for us. I mean, he was such a guy. That's amazing. He was so good because I like Lisa said, we didn't have to look into the other stuff and we felt like we walked out of those meetings knowing we had a game plan. We obviously knew God was always in charge. Yep.

Yeah. Friends, one thing you might not know about me is I am a major doodler. Like I can hardly pay attention in a conversation at work if I'm not doodling something because it helps me so much to just focus. And one of my favorite things, especially when I'm reading the Bible, is to doodle on the side. That actually helps me focus and remember what I'm reading and what God's talking about. My partners at Mr. Bendham changed my journal game with their pens and highlighters specifically designed to be used in my Bible.

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we just took out so much of that fear and anxiety and worry. And so, you know, we made an appointment that day to come back for surgery. And then however much time went by later, a couple of months, we wanted to do Carly's wedding and some other things. And we went down there and I got to tell you, it's been eight weeks now. For me, it's been an opportunity to serve Lisa in a way I've never served before. And I realize now that 40 years of marriage and everything we went through and how God healed us

prepared me to serve her. She's always been such a great server of me. And I had the same conversation with dad recently, cause you know, mom's been down and you know, dad's been a person I've never seen before in the way he served mom these last six months. And we kind of get to share that together because I got to do that with Lisa.

So it's really why you get through the difficult times because when God designs it and you can have a long marriage like we've had together, it's so much more joyful as an older couple now like we are to know that He prepared us for these moments. Because when you're going through the other stuff, you got your kids like you guys. You and Christian are young.

You got so many things you're trying to deal with and go, there's going to be a time where it's just the two of you. And that's all you have for each other. That's how God designed you. And all those years of being able to do that. So I've relished it. It's been Philippians 2, 1 through 5, an action for me to have the attitude of Christ that I look out not just for my interests,

I have no selfish ambition or vain conceit, but I look out for my wife. And so that's what I've learned through this process of her having cancer. And so it's been another chapter now for us. And we've got a couple of marriage events this week and we always share a lot of what we shared on these two podcasts with you. But now we have another chapter, you know, that God continues

to write for us. So another chapter. And it's so cool because I hadn't seen you since and you walked in today, you're looking all radiant and beautiful. And you're like, God, like, expedited the process. He supercharged the cells in my body or something. Because I mean, I healed up so fast. We did an event four weeks after I had that surgery done. You did in Kansas City. That's wild. And Katie was even more of it,

because Katie was like, okay, I had a lot harder. Yeah, Katie was. Well, actually, Katie was on our LO sister podcast talking about breast cancer and talking about the hardship of it. So yes, there's so much hardship and everyone's story is so different. And you went through a lot in the weeks of,

just knowing you have cancer and then actually having to have a surgery that was 11 hours. And like there's hard stuff, you know? But to see where you're at now is just amazing. And I know you're gonna do what you always do and use it to be an advocate and help other people go in through it

and finding God in their story. And I heard you say, I think it was maybe on y'all's podcast or maybe on a blog that someone gave you the advice, maybe it was Katie or April about, don't miss what God has for you in this moment. Miss you, Williams. That was it.

Don't miss what God has. Don't miss the little bitty things that he wants to teach you during all of this, you know? Yeah. And I'll tell you, so my biggest, or one of my biggest takeaways, I have so many, because God just blessed me so much.

But, so we've been married for 40 years. And I mean, I've been crazy about him since I was in the sixth grade. And I know he loves me. I mean, you know, that's never been a question. But when you go through something like this, you take it up to another level, you know? And just the commitment to my healing that he had, you think sometimes, okay, so maybe he's just committed because 40 years ago he made a commitment, you know? But no, he was really committed to me.

I really felt how much that he loved me in this whole thing. And so that's just one of the things. And then God has given me a platform, another platform. You know? And I think that's what's so beautiful about it is that everything you go through, whenever God heals you from that,

you can use that to help somebody else. Yep. And that's what I plan to do with this is I plan to help other people. It's good. It's good. Your cousin Carmen on the 23rd is having surgery for breast cancer. And so I've been talking to her. I just sent her a box of stuff and I just said, Carmen, you can do this.

Now, she has a little bit scarier thing, see, because her mom died of breast cancer. So everybody has something different, you know? And you can't just put it in a box and say, okay, this is what it is, everybody's different. And Lisa's already had four intimate conversations with four different women, just in these last eight weeks of her own recovery.

So it's just gonna be another chapter of paying grace for it. Yep. That's right. It's so cool to hear y'all's story. I mean, for everyone listening to this podcast, you know why we did too, because there's so much to it, but the whole thing is just redemption,

the threat of redemption. That's right. And I'm thinking about this, it's so much to it, but the whole thing is just redemption, the threat of redemption. And I'm thinking about this, it's so cool that you said that about Alan, like what you've seen through this is that he really loves you and is committed to you and cares for you. Whereas at the beginning of the podcast, you're saying, you treated her so wrong, you didn't pursue her right, you struck out so many times,

but then like here you are 40 years later, and like a man of honor, and then here you are and you made different mistakes in your life and you know, had a really dark season in y'all's marriage and all that stuff. But when I think of you, even Alan, sorry, even Anna and Alex's post about after you got breast cancer and just the text they sent to our family and the pictures they posted of you,

it's like that verse in Proverbs 31, like her children arise and call her blessed. Like your kids adore you, your grandkids adore you. And so to see where you're at now with like your children calling you blessed and like just so grateful for you and you're their best friend and you being the man that you are and your marriage.

It's just like, man, if you're listening to this podcast and you think you're too far gone or you're living in that lifestyle where you're making mistakes and all that stuff, God is not done with your story. God, I mean, the gospel story is a story of grace, story of power, story of love, story of redemption, and that if he can do that in their life,

he can do it in yours. We're no different than all of you guys. And so thank you guys for sharing your story with honesty and love and compassion. It is changing the world, changing me and I'm so grateful for it. Thank you all. you