WHOA That's Good Podcast - Relationship Fears, Hard Conversations + a BIG Announcement | Sadie Robertson Huff & Jennie Allen

Episode Date: March 2, 2022

Sadie has a HUGE announcement at the end of this episode. But first, best-selling author Jennie Allen joins Sadie to discuss how to find your people, build meaningful connections, and surround yourself with community. They break down how to lean in and bring your full self into relationships (and why that can mean being the Queen of Awkwardness). They also hit on relationship fears, the freedom that comes with vulnerability, and how hard conversations can build deeper friendships. Jennie’s book, “Find Your People,” is available NOW! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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with infinite skills and a fulfillment guarantee. No hiring or tedious project coordination needed. We get your tasks done on time and on point, always. Get your 10-hour free child at bunnystudio.com slash start. Bunny Studio. What's up friends? Welcome back to the Woodette's Good Podcast y'all. We have a very special episode ahead. We have Ginny Allen back on the podcast talking about her brand new book. It's a great conversation. You're definitely going to want to hear the whole thing. But

also, I want to tell y', that I have a huge announcement. I'll be making at the end of this podcast. So stay tuned, you're not gonna wanna miss it. And I just wanna let you know, for our WoW That's Good listeners. Y'all are the first people to hear about this. So stay tuned to the end of this conversation for an awesome announcement. What's up with us, Good Fam?

Like I mentioned in the intro, we have Jenny Allen back on the podcast, and this is really exciting because she is a new book. Out it is called Find Your People, Building Deep Community in a Lonely World. And everybody out there said, Amen. Thank you, Jesus Jesus for this book. Jenny, thank you for writing this book. So important. Oh, I'm so happy to be here, Sadie. I love hanging out with you and your people. So yeah, thank you. It has been, yeah, it's been a ride.

You know, it's a couple years of our lives when we take on a project like this, but I'm really excited about it. And I really hope it changes things, because we're sitting here post-quarantaining and all the things the world has been shut down, hoping to, I think, all of us feel this desire to do community differently. Totally. And so, yeah.

It's good. Well, we're gonna get all into the book, and I'm so excited. But first, can we just talk about passion for a second? I mean, we can never not talk about it because what happened there was just so absolutely incredible. And I mean, I know you, like, the way people don't, not everybody knows you, I get to see you behind the stage

and on the stage and you're the same person through and through, but I will say, like, you were a little bit nervous for passion like for sure That actually made you nervous and I think that people don't think that you would get nervous But you were totally nervous, but you stepped into that and when you were on the stage It was like the fear was gone. There was this crazy God confidence in you and you just preach. What was that like? Well, there was nothing like that. I mean, I don't think I'll ever do anything like that again, as far as just that the nerves of the first time to do that. I mean, it was just so intimidating. And yeah. And I think that room, I mean, Mercedes-Benz, it's just, it's overwhelming. But,

but I did, it wasn't even about that, Sadie. And you and I have talked so much about this. It was the weight of what we were supposed to do. And how do we honor God with a moment like that that feels so important? And I mean, I would say the more we do things together, the more I just feel so bonded to you, because it's just the sense of

there's things behind the scenes that we're praying and that we're hoping and that we're wrestling through together that that is the Lord like you can't You just don't want to wing that you don't want to be like try to bring your best talk You want God to show up and we both felt that way about that day and to be on your team and to watch even though you know how hard that was for me that you were sick because we were both so ready to like hold hands and go do that thing together. But you it was the way it was supposed to go and say you brought a word with such confidence as well. But yeah, it was it was a lot. It was overwhelming for sure,

but I'll never forget it. And it was probably one of the best days of my life too, just because we were working with God and you felt that. You felt that all day. That's exactly, that's such a good way of saying it. You're working with God and you felt it because yes, like you don't want to just go and bring your best message.

Like you want God to move and it's so cool because you can be confident when you step in that moment and you know like, I'll have a word like from God Like this is what like God has given me to say and I think that's even why whenever I was sick I was like I'm not going home like how like what do we do to make sure I can say this because this isn't even like my Word it's like God like spoke this so clearly and to you I know you've mentioned that God kind of shared what you were gonna share in a dream.

And we've actually kind of been talking about God dreams on the podcast lately. And so what did that look like for you? Like you woke up in the middle of the night and you were just like, I know what I'm gonna preach at passion. Yeah. It's never happened before. I'm actually in a little bit of a fight with God lately

because I'm like, God, I need you to give me a few more things like this. They're very important things and I need you to be this clear with me because obviously you can be, you showed me, you could be. And again, he's been clear. It's not like he hasn't spoken like that before, but it was the middle of the night and I knew my talk. I mean, exactly what I delivered that day, Sadie, with the images, with the boxes that I hold and how I use them. All of that, he showed me in a talk. All the points, everything. I never wrote it down. It was like it was blazed up on my bed. This is what you're going to say. These are the scriptures you're going to use. Wow.

And then I practiced it twice and I tried to add something to it, because I thought, oh, I think this would work too with the boxes. And I did it that little part. And my people watching didn't know what was what, but they looked at me about that part. They were like, no, that didn't work. Kept that.

And that was the only part I tried to add. So I'm like, okay, okay, God, like you literally won't let me even add anything. Wow. I got to give this thing exactly how you gave it to me. And so it was really humbling. And I knew I wasn't supposed to script it, which is really the intimidating part.

Totally. Because I was asking people to confess, I normally would write that, rehearse it several times, but I knew it had to be for my heart to get them to share. I knew it had to be a little bit different than most of my other messages I would give in that moment.

And so there was parts of that that weren't planned or scripted for sure in my head. And I think that was maybe the most intimidating part. There was a moment because I truly was trusting God to show up. There was a sense of, if I get up there and I'm really nervous and you know the echo that you hear. Oh, yeah It's hard on the stage. Oh my gosh. It is more distracting everybody tried to prepare me It the first minute or so I was just out of sorts because my voice you'd hear it's like seven times past your ears It was the weirdest thing. Yeah, and so I it took me a minute and I thought oh no, I don't have notes So it took me a minute and I thought, oh no, I don't have notes. I went out there with no notes.

So I was like, great. You've got to show up because it really was such a personal moment of surrender for me. And yeah, that he did and it's over. And it made me trust him, I think, more than I've ever, I ever have a four, because he did show up. And the main thing was people can fast. I mean, I didn't know, like I'm just sitting up there pouring my heart out, but you don't know, you can't feel the room.

It's not like a normal room where you can feel what they're experiencing. You can't even hardly see faces because there's so many people that you only must only see colors, you know, like you see shirts and stuff, but you don't see like a face. And I always like to like look at someone's face when I'm speaking, but it's too big. It's too crazy. So yeah, you can't feel it the way that you would normally feel a moment. But it was so cool you didn't have notes, because I think that made you be so honest. And it was like so authentic and so honest. And like people were just with you and listening to you and then people confess and

Like freedom just came into the room. It was just I mean I've heard so many people talk about that moment and yes, you're talk, but but just that confession moment You know like what you led them to is so cool and I love how you said that, like the first minute felt a little crazy because I always say that sometimes, you know, going on stage and speaking, especially without notes, it kinda is equivalent to skydiving. And the sense of like,

you're so like nervous and you're like, God, if you don't come through, I am going to fall on my face. And the first thing that you do when you skydive is you go out of the plane and for the first like 10 seconds, it feels absolutely crazy. You're like just going all around

because they haven't pulled any type of shoot yet. So you're flipping and you're totally out of control. And within 10 seconds, they pull that first shoot and immediately you catch the wind. And it is just so fun. I mean, you're still going fast, but it's fun. And then they pull the second shoot after a minute or two or however,

and then you just float down. And I'm like, that really is speaking. It's like, you go up. And for the first few minutes, you're like, okay, I found him, I'm a footing, fine. And then you catch the wind. And God just speaks through you. And man, like that talk was such a beautiful picture

of that and it was so good. Well, I'll always talk about it. I'll always reminisce on that moment. And it is so fun. We are so bonded when we get to do stuff like that because we pray about it together. And then we see God be God. Well, I want to talk about the book

because like I said, this book is so important. It's so timely for so many people. I think so many of us are struggling, finding community. And we've talked about this in my own life. You've obviously shared so much in the book, but I want to unpack a few things. So many of us are struggling finding community and we've talked about this in my own life. You've obviously shared so much in the book, but I want to unpack a few things. First I want to ask you, like, is this a message that you felt like you needed, you know, as you wrote the book?

Because I think sometimes you write from a place of, you know, been there, done that. Here's my advice and sometimes you write from a place of, in this, doing this. Here's what I'm learning. Yeah. Like, like wherever you kind of at in the writing process. You know that fresh produce is the best produce. That's why at Kroger, we invest in local farmers to bring you seasonal picks that taste fresh from the farm good, like sweet corn, refreshing watermelon and juicy peaches. So whether you're a delivery lover, a picker upper or you shop in store, your local produce always tastes 100% fresh. Or you get a 100% refund guaranteed

Kruger fresh for everyone. Well, definitely the second and fact still in it and learning. Wow, yeah, wow. I wish this is a hard thing to be an expert in relationships because they change and you change. And there's a sense of practicing this that you can even get out of step with, right? So even recently, I continually have

to choose to lean in and to bring my whole self into relationships because I can be guarded and I can hold back because I don't know how it's going to be received or if it will be used against me or if I'll be rejected. There's so many fears I think when it comes to relationships that we all experience. And, you know, people have a hard time with this. I think the numbers are three and five feel lonely. That was before COVID. So, I mean, majority of people now, I would guess it was four and five.

So, we've got a pretty big crisis on our hands. And what's cool about that number is it means that we're all feeling this. We're all experiencing the same thing. But it also is a little bit sad because it probably means we all don't feel very good at this. I think of you, Sadie, and this is what you do, you sister people, you bring them in, you want everybody to feel a part of a sisterhood. And I think that's part of the magic of L.O. and what you've created because there's this sense of isolation that everybody's experiencing. And then you say, not only can you come and like listen to my podcast, but we want you to feel like a part of our family and a part of what we're doing. Right.

And so I think that is exactly what people are craving. And and so yes, that's the outside world, but inside for me, it has been a practice of patterns and habits that I wasn't good at, that I've had to grow in and learn and get better at. Well, yeah, it's so real. And I'm the same way. Like, I feel like a lot of times the reason why

maybe I don't make friends is normally because I have something in my heart guarded. You know, like, and I'm trying and I'm showing up and I'm there, but, and we talked about this, but I still feel lonely because I actually am not sharing the thing that would make me feel connected to that person, you know. And you say in the book, you say you're only going to be as close to someone as you are vulnerable with them. And like that part is so hard. And so from someone who is guarded like yourself and me, like how do you get past it?

How do you know when it's the right people to be vulnerable with, you know? That's a great question, because it does matter. And we can't be vulnerable with everybody. That's not what we're supposed to do. I think we can be transparent. I think we can say things like they are and say the truth about ourselves

and not pretend to be something we're not. But as far as the really sharing our guts in a way that is seeking connection and healing for ourselves, that has to be done with safe people. And so we wait for that. And we try, you know, what I tell people people is it well the research says it takes 200 hours to To become a close friend to go from an acquaintance to a really close friend So you've got to actually invest the time in your village of people that God's put around you You've got to invest some hours and see okay who's popping up as one of those safer people for me

Mm-hmm, and as they up, then you spend more intentional time with them and you say, hey, here's what's going on my day, here's what's going on my week. But maybe you don't share what I call the 2% that is more sacred. And I think it is the 2% that you're afraid to tell other people. My church actually uses that phrase a lot. And it's trained me and taught me to, you have to say the 2% to someone. You don't need to say the 2% to everyone.

And so testing those friendships is okay. I think it's perfectly fine and a wise move to drop something and then see what happens. With the qualities, I say to look for in people is humble, available and vulnerable. If you've got those three things, if you're humble, you'll work through conflict. If you're available, you still need a friend. You still have margin to actually spend the hours and time to be there for someone. And then number three, if you're vulnerable, if the other friend is vulnerable and you're able to be vulnerable with three, if you're vulnerable, if the other friend is vulnerable, and you're able to be vulnerable with them, then you're going to be able to actually be known.

And that's the thing everybody craves is ultimately to be known and accepted and loved. And so to build that kind of culture around you, it takes you going first. Almost everyone, everyone you going first. Almost everyone, everyone that I've talked to in this process about feeling lonely. The ones who are initiators do not feel lonely and the ones that are not do. It is almost 100%. Wow. And so if you initiate, you will have friends. And if you don't, you won't. And I mean initiate and vulnerability and transparency, how deep it will go. We're always looking at the other person and deciding, can I say this? Is this safe?

Like, we're always kind of judging that with someone. Like is this, is this, and then what happens is if you go first and that person's like, I'm so sorry and they have nothing to share for themselves, you can go, you know what, they're probably not super vulnerable. And not that they can't grow in that, because if they're humble, maybe they can, but that might not be your person.

Like you gotta have somebody that's like me too, or at least I'm so sorry, and I've been struggling with this. Just some tennis match, I'm like, I'm gonna trust you too. Not just you're gonna trust me, but I'm gonna trust you too. Man, that're gonna trust me, but I'm gonna trust you too. Man, that is so gay,

because there is nothing worse than like, spilling your heart to someone and someone being like, I'm sorry, that's steams. And like, you're like, yeah, yeah, that is like, do you, or are they like, oh gosh, you know, like, oh gosh, you know, I have that. That's the word, like, oh gosh. Oh gosh, that is horrible.

Never, I should never be thing That you ever say to someone after they say oh gosh just cut it out But like no, I've been there and you know, it's I was selling Christian this literally last night I was like man I feel like I finally have like my accountability like friend that and because I'm such a I really read the room I really watch face so expressions I'm such an imitator and part of being an imitator is you notice people's faces and their patterns

and the way that they talk. And so I'm definitely an attendant. I'm like watching, like as I'm talking, like are they in this or are they back in a way or do they think this is weird, do they, whatever. And so that's why I don't always go there with people because I feel like, oh, I'm reading it and I'm not trusting it.

But I finally have a really just that person that I feel like I could say anything to and she's always like me too, or this is what I'm walking through and we genuinely pray for each other. And a few weeks ago, we had this moment where we were both at this retreat together and it was so cool because there was this

moment of like confession and I looked at her and said I'm gonna tell you something, the only two other people know. I said my husband and Jenny Allen. And I shared this with her. And then it was really cool and she ended up sharing stuff with me that was really powerful. And then we went on and we've texted each other and like, how are you since you said that? How are you? And it's just been so good. And I was just thinking about that 2%

and I was looking at that like my husband, Jenny, and this girl. And I have one friend, one mentor, and my spouse. And I think that that is like so, it's been so good for me. Like I had these three people that know that 2% and it has made me so much more free in my life. And so just to like a test of the message

that Jenny's saying that really is so important. And it really brings so much freedom and areas of your life that you didn't even know we're like held. You didn't even know were like held. You didn't even know were like bound, but whenever you're, you know, a slave to your thought pattern or a slave to loneliness or a slave to your shame, like you don't realize how that actually is keeping you back from like the freedom of life. And so I just encourage people out there listening, like, yes, get the two percent out.

Find the people you can be vulnerable with. I want to ask you about another aspect of friendships. There's one that's like, okay, I feel really garden. There's other people who just feel like super awkward. They're like, I'm just an awkward person. I don't know why I'm awkward. I don't know why I'm weird. I just can't make friends. And so, one I want to ask, do you ever feel awkward? And then, too, like, how do you press past awkward to be in community? That's the best question ever, because yes. And you can ask it because you know me. Of course I go awkward.

I am like the queen of awkward. I think that might be my only skill so I going into writing this book with you. But I actually believe that it requires being awkward to have friends because all the steps of it are hard. All the steps of it feel awkward. I just did an interview, Sadie, today with a guy out of Africa and I told his story in the book

but I wanted to dive even deeper into it for the season that we're doing. And I was reminded of how broken our communal lens is in America. He talks, he lives here now and in fact he lives in Atlanta. And he talks about how he just stopped by his friends house in Africa. He said, when I go home, I just show up and I know I'm going to, this is what he said, I know I'm going to have an epic day. Well, that's awesome what he said, I know I'm gonna have an epic day. Wow.

That's awesome. He said, I don't even have a plan, but I know I'm gonna have an epic day. It's crazy. Because he knows he can go to this restaurant and see 10 friends. He knows he can step by, stop by anybody's house and they're gonna stop everything in front of an hour,

they're gonna talk. Wow. Well, he talked about in America how he would never do that because that's so awkward. And I'm like, Jay, just do it. Like, who cares? That's honestly the whole book for me began with one, seeing how people lived in Africa

and wanting something better. And then two, God, giving me a friend and Dallas who was this way. She would just bust in my house with her kids. And be like, hey, what are you doing? And like just coming, and she called me, I mean, she just called me today, and said, hey, tonight let's do this.

Like, there's an energy and a passion, and a clarity and initiation that she brings to relationships that just change the way that I do relationships. Because it's so much more, let's go with the word epic. It's so much more epic. Because you actually do crave this. It's so much more epic because you actually do crave this. We all want this, but this is not the culture we live in. And so my thing is, why don't you just be awkward and begin by just awkwardly showing epic people's houses.

Like I know that sounds crazy. Yes. But I really think part of our problem is we don't just show up. Now, what I tell people to do is if that feels like way too much for your people, because I realize some people live in the Midwest and like there's a different, you know, it's like this is how we do things, I get it, then you and your friends read it together and y'all build a code of contact of how you can act with each other. It's great.

Because I think there needs to be some agreements together of like, hey, yes, you can stop by my house. But we cannot just keep living the way we've been living. Something's got to change. But I think the main ingredient it's going to require is awkwardness because it is awkward. It's awkward to initiate a friendship. It's awkward to get in a fight and then to work it out. It's awkward to be vulnerable the first time.

It's awkward to invite someone the third time when they haven't invited you and you're not sure they even like you, but you're like, I like them, so I'm going to keep inviting. It's awkward, the whole process. And so to cheer everyone about there, if you feel awkward, that's great. That actually is on in line with how you should be feeling. And I would say you always will feel, because the deeper it goes and the longer it goes, the more likely you're going to have a fight,

the more likely you're going to need to work through something. Yes. The more likely you're going to get hurt, and then the awkward all has to come back. So I would just say to lean into that feeling, that's okay. And at one point in the book, I wrote something like, I should have called this book like, you know,

the road to living awkwardly or something, because that really is what's required. It just is. Yes, it's so good. It's so encouraging and so freeing, because so many people think the awkwardness disqualifies them from friendship, but what you're saying is awkwardness

is actually a requirement of friendship. Like, it will happen, it's gonna happen, it's always gonna happen, and it's so freeing, from friendship, but what you're saying is awkwardness is actually a requirement of friendship. Like it will happen, it's gonna happen, it's always gonna happen, and it's so free, because you can look around and be like, oh wow, like it's not like my problem that is awkward, it's actually just part of it that it's awkward, you know? And so I love that.

And let me say this, well for so long, I'm really good at asking deep questions, right? Like that's kind of very good of that, yes. That's what I do. And so I remember getting made fun of in my friend group, and this isn't an adult, right? Just, Jenny, you're always too deep. You're always so heavy. You're all, well, so I stopped doing that because I thought, I don't, I don't want to be awkward. And it's so interesting. The girl that used to say that to me reached out to me recently and said, Jenny, I'm sorry, I said those things to you because she's going through a hard time and she's like, that's who I'm drawn to.

She goes, I think I was just, I didn't know how to receive it, but we all need that. And we want to go, we all want to go deep, but we don't know how. And even the person making fun of me, let years later eventually admitted to, I didn't know how to do it. Like, I didn't know how to do it. Like, I didn't know how to match your depth. And so I just made fun of you because that was easier. So I think what we've got to realize is,

the world needs what we're craving. You know, at your craving deep friendship, you're craving a deeper conversation, you're craving your friends actually opening them up. They do want that and they do need that. They may not know that and they may not know how to do that. And that might even make them seem like, that's too much for me or I don't know what to do with that.

But push through it and be the awkward one, be the deep one, be the one that says, you know what, y'all, I'm sick of talking about, you know, what's going on in our love life or what's going on with our kids or what's going on with work. I want to talk about something real so let's talk about How we're really doing what I say is talk about the thing behind the thing

One of the close to somebody Talk about the thing behind the thing because the thing behind the thing is a fear a Feeling of inadequacy and insecurity. That's the thing behind the thing right you did that to me Even at the beginning of the show, say, you're really good at this. You're like, I know everybody knows and watch passion, but I saw behind the scenes. Like, I saw you were afraid, and I want you to talk about that.

And so that's what we're talking about. If somebody listening doesn't know, it's those kind of conversations. It's not just the surface level of what's happening in someone's life. It's how they feel about what's happening in their lives. It's so true. Gosh what's happening in their lives. It's so true. Gosh, it's so true. And I'm so, thank you for saying that.

It actually is like such a great compliment because whenever I started this podcast, I wanted to be a great interviewer, right? Like I actually wanted to ask questions that are meaningful. And I felt like I have been interviewed so many times in my life because of Doug Dynastie and it's with the stars and I've done so much press. And I always just felt like people ask the obvious questions. And I'm like, I just feel like everyone already knows this.

I'm answering the same thing over and over and over again because that's the obvious things. But like, I wanna ask people the questions that aren't obvious that, okay, maybe this is obvious, but what's the why behind that? Or what happened to you that made that such an obvious thing about the way that you live you know and it's so cool that's what I asked people like the best piece of advice they've ever been given because it's kind of the story behind them it's like what was given to you that made you

who you are you know or why did write this book? Did you have this message happen to you? Because to be honest, every book I've written is because I need to learn more about that. I need to learn. I'm struggling with it. I'm lost in this big world too. And so I love that you said that. And I also love that you just mentioned that someone came after something that is actually a gift to who you are, and you toned down because you were like embarrassed by it. And that happened in my own life for so long, and unintentionally, my family would kind of,

they would just be joking about it, but they would just be like, you're so dramatic, Sadie, you know, you're so dramatic and how you tell stories, and I was like very embarrassed by that. And so I always try to tone it down. Like tone down the storytelling, like tone down the way that I communicate

because I didn't want to seem dramatic because I thought that was a bad thing. And then finally, it was like last summer on our family trip, I was like, you know what, all you people keep saying I'm dramatic and it's stealing from how good of a storyteller I am. I was like, this is like my All you people keep saying I'm dramatic and it's stealing from how good of a storyteller I am.

I was like, this is like my family so I can say this. And I'm like, and I'm owning it now because this is how I got made me and this is what makes my messages better because I retell stories in the Bible in a very fun way. And it was just a funny moment for me to just like own what I felt like not they took away from me, but the enemy in my mind and the way I shame myself took away for me for so long. And I was like, I'm actually not gonna let that stop me. I actually am gonna own this and here's why.

And I think there are so many things in our life that people say unintentionally, like they're not meaning to hurt, they don't even care. They don't think it's a bad thing. But like, what the enemy does with those words, it shames you to the point where you're like, well, then I'm not gonna be like that. I'm not gonna ask the deep question.

I'm not gonna be dramatic. I'm not gonna tell stories in a funny way or whatever. And that's when we lose that essence of like who we are, you know? And I think that's a scary place to be. What do you have to say about just people wanting to conform to, I guess, find community? Because you know, some of the times people so desire friendship that they might conform to what certain groups are like for the want and desire to fit in, but say that that's

not really who they are. So what I guess I'm asking is, say you're looking to be in community because you know you need to be in community. But what if your community that's around you is not a good one to be a part of? What do you do in that sense? And how do you not conform?

Yeah. Well, I think it's really important to have two distinctions in your life. There's one group of people that you need and one group of people that need you. And I'm not saying that some of the people you need don't also need you, but in your head, when you're viewing your relationships, you're inventorying. Because if we only are around the strong believers that make us better, right? That's not what Jesus called us to do.

He called us to deep community to walk in in oneness. I mean, the type of community Jesus actually talks about is so radical to live in oneness and to love each other with reckless abandon, that type of connection and love is, I would say, super rare today in friendship. And so, and the way that he walked with the disciples and modeled how we're supposed to do life was eating regularly together. I mean, they literally live together day in and day out. So we're talking about a radical kind of relationship that Jesus modeled for us.

So that's supposed to be the core of how we survive and what's surrounding us. But we also have to remember that there are people that need that love and that part of the way we are supposed to live in this world is to give that love away. Now you've got to know your proclivity, right? You can't just run out and be around all the part of yours because you're going to minister to them and that be your temptation. And that's not going to work out for you.

So I think you've got to have those people that hold you accountable that you're primarily doing life with. And then you've got to understand there are other people you're going to love and be in relationship with. You can't just be friends with people that are making good choices. And then I think there's also the wrong expectations of people hurting us. Everyone's going to hurt you. Everyone's going to be a sinner. Everybody's going, no one makes a perfect friend, right? This is,

this isn't what you're looking for. You're not looking for perfect people, but you're looking for people headed in the same direction. Paul actually describes people to avoid and he says, their God is their belly and their glory is their shame. Basically, that they are comfortable in your sin. They love their sin. They boast about their sin. That's not where you're going to hang out. That's not where you're going to do life. Where they're cravings or appetized. That's what they're chasing. And so you want to find people that are killing their, you know, their sin and they hate their sin and then they're running toward God. However, they're still going to hurt you and they're still going to be imperfect.

But I do believe one weakness of a culture right now is that we too quickly give up on people and we walk away because it gets hard. And I think it's a disposable friendship kind of thing where we just go, you know what? I can go find other people. This isn't comfortable for me anymore. I'm gonna walk away. And, you know, I think that's where we've got to go.

You know, I'm gonna say that sometimes we make excuses to shut out people in our lives that are hurtful or hard for us when really God has also called us to love them. So it's a fine line as to which category people fall in. And yet I also bet you everybody listening can go, yeah, I know the people that I need that I've got to have in my life. And I know the people that need God or need something from me at the same time I do think God also makes it clear to us.

All right, so you've been talking about hardship and friendships and how people hurt you that's just a part of it. And I think so many times people think when you're hurt, then it's over. But I love how you write conflict should make friendships, not break them. I've never had a truly intimate friend

that was free of conflict. So good that you wrote that because it just allows you to know that it's okay, not only okay, but it actually makes it better. And so how do you embrace conflict and learn to like embrace that and not run from that? Well, I think the first thing is we never really learned how to do this.

Nobody ever taught us like, oh, this is how you have a fight. This is how you say I'm sorry, this is how you work it out. It's largely why people are in marriage counseling because we never learn how to work through conflict. And so this is something that you cannot be afraid of. When you feel something towards a friend and it doesn't go away within 24 hours, you should reach out to that person and say, hey,

let's talk about it. I tell the story of my sister-in-law, who's also one of my best friends, doing that to me. She reached out and said, hey, can we go talk? I. I tell the story of my sister-in-law, who's also one of my best friends doing that to me. She reached out and said, hey, can we go talk? I need to tell you something. And what she had to tell me was that I'd heard her. Well, it caught me so off guard. I mean, immediately my heart starts racing.

I'm like, how did I heard her? I can't find it in my head. I can't figure it out. And I just panic. And in the moment, though, I remember just feeling like the spirit was like just be quiet. Like just try to understand. And so I did and I apologized and I owned my part in that I felt terrible and I walked away. Well I came back into the friendship over the next few weeks and I kept feeling like I was walking on eggshells.

Like I might make your mad again, or I might hurt her again, and it really changed the way that we were acting and behaving. And I had a choice at that point to say, you know what, I'm not gonna call her as much. Or this isn't as fine, like, I don't know if I trust her. She could do this again, get mad at me, hurt by me. And I, I mean, that was honestly a temptation for me.

And instead, she had been brave enough to, to do this with me. I said back to her, we were at dinner, I said, honestly, it's been hard for me because I, I feel like I have to walk on eggshells and she immediately grabbed me and she was like, do not feel that way. She goes, Ginny, the one time I've ever been hurt by you, I told you. And it was such a breakthrough for me because I realized, oh my gosh, she's right. This should be my safest friend. This friend actually, she wasn't hiding anything. She wasn't secretly angry at me for six months and then busted out with feelings. She was mad at, she was hurt by me for a few days and brought it to me and we worked through it. And it changed the way I thought because I was like, this is actually a safer friend

than the one that wouldn't bring something to me, right? But we are trained to think conflict is bad, conflict isn't safe. And so immediately I stopped walking on eggshells. I was like, you're right. If she's ever upset with me, she'll tell me. I don't have to. She's telling me.

Wonder. And so I think we're so afraid of conflict because mainly we don't know how to handle it. So even in the book, like I laid out, like this is how you say you're sorry, like this is what you say if you get into conflict because I didn't want anyone to not have to have that excuse, that that would be the reason that they they wouldn't so stay. I want them to know, you know what, this is doable, you listen and you apologize and you own your part. And then the next question is, and is there anything else I can do to make this right? And a lot of, it was great.

Her answer to that question was she had some things. She was like, actually, it helps me if you can be sensitive to this thing in my life. And I was like, oh, okay, I can do that. It wasn't even a hard request, but I did know prior to that So I think these conversations should make friendship deeper. It's great. So good y'all I'm just gonna remind you of the title of this book find your people and if you are struggling in any way With community this book is so important and Jenny if you've never read Jenny's books I just hope you have and if you haven't you have

So much to do in the next few weeks and months you'll Learn so much from all of the books that she's written But you're so good at being so well studied for your books like they're so filled with Information and facts and data, but you're also so practical and so relatable and such as a friend and a mentor and a mom who comes alongside and says, hey, these are like some things. Like, here's how you say, I'm sorry. And sometimes we just need to know that. Like, we need to know how to do something. And so you're so good at the how to's as well. And so thank you for writing books that are so wise and so practical at the same time. I want to ask you about how you moved from

Austin to Dallas and of course when you move there's an opportunity to build a new community and most people know my story. I moved from Nashville back to Louisiana but I didn't have community in Louisiana. I like I did in Nashville. You might think since I was from here I would but I didn't have any community and I had an amazing community in Nashville. And it was so easy for a little while to sit in that, well I have friends, they're just not here, right? You know, like I have friends, they're just not here, I have community, they're just all over the world. And I think that that is a, that's a good thing to have, it's good to have friends at other places,

but you talk about in your book having proximity and how important friendship is to be in proximity with people. And I loved how you made it even just a biblical thing how Jesus was in such close proximity with friends. And so can you speak to that like why is it important to not just have friends from afar but actually have friends who you can go have a meal and sit in their home and hang out with? you can go have a meal and sit in their home and hang out with. It's so important to look at each other in the eyes, to have somebody grab you by the shoulders,

to hold you, to hug you. These are things that we've lost, even in the last few years, even with the neighbors and people we're close to. And so to prioritize that is, to me, it's not the only thing you can absolutely have those friends around the world. I do too, but if I don't have somebody

that sees the look behind my eyes when I'm sharing something and they know you're not saying the whole thing, Ginny, you're not okay, you're saying you're okay, but you're not okay. You can't always see that on Zoom, you can't always see that on a phone call. And so to have somebody that calls your bluff and grabs you by the shoulders and says,

I love you and I'm here and I'm not letting go. And then brings you dinner or pulls you out of your robe and like, let's go out. Those kind of things we've got to have in our lives. And so it's not enough. It's not that we can't have those friends around the world. It's that that's not all we can have. We've got to have a few friends. And so when I moved to Dallas, I had this desire.

And we moved really close like you did to family. We live really close to Zach's family. And they're really, really good friends of ours. We enjoy them so much. But I was going to need more than that. And so I began to pray. I think that's the first thing you do. As you say, God, will you please show me the people in front of me? And then you be open to all

the people God's put in your life. Because throughout history, and this is something I talk about way more in depth in the book, but throughout history, everybody lived in a village, about 100 to 150 people. And you knew each other your whole life, you never left. And so those people that make up that village, and you have one to everybody has one, Sunday school teachers or people that your kids are growing up with or for some of you that are single, it's people maybe that you work with or you live in a apartment with or a neighborhood with, all of us have people in our lives that we see on a regular basis. And maybe they're not your exact age group and maybe they're not exactly who you think you'd be friends with.

But that's part of the fun of God too, is he always surprised you. And that village is actually going to meet needs for you, that maybe two to three best friends couldn't. And so you want to really invest in that village, and I bet you to some degree, you did have that part. But we also need the circle. We also need the inner

circle of the two to five people that know our ins and outs and walk with us day in and day out. And that does take a little bit more intention to find. But when you have the village in place, you're probably going to find that other group. And it's just going to take time. It just takes time. So true, that's so good. Time is like the thing that no one wants to be the answer for anything, but it's oftentimes the answer for most things, you know? And I love what you said about even grabbing people by the shoulders because I'm reading this leadership book right now and it's been so good. And it was talking about how just the power of touch is actually so powerful. Like in our brain, something about it, like when you shake someone's hand,

that's not just shaking someone's hand, but even when you're going to make a deal and you shake someone's hand, it actually is like a sign of trust. And it's like telling your brain, like I trust this person. And they were talking about how, if you were about to sign a contract with someone,

and you're like, okay, I'm so excited. Let's shake on it. And they say, no, it's okay. I don't need a shaker. Hit on, I'm going to sign it like we're good. If they did that, you know, you would be so much more likely to even just say, okay, I actually don't want to do it with the stool with you because now I don't trust you. Or you'd be like walking into the stool, feeling like you

don't trust them because they weren't willing to touch you to shake on it, to show you that they trust you. And I think in the same way with friendships, it's like it, to show you that they trust you. And I think in the same way with friendships, it's like, that's why you can't just have Zoom. That's why you do have to go in person, because showing someone by touching them, or hugging them, or loving on them,

like that shows I trust you, I love you, I'm here with you, I'm in community with you, and it really does make such a difference. So I love that. Lastly, I wanna talk to you about your love for the show Friends because Christian and I have not watched Friends and we're like, should we watch Friends?

And so should I watch Friends? And what have you learned from it? Because I love that you learn from all things. I mean, I have a hard time recommending it because there's certainly things in it that are PG-Core. Of course. But I would say their relationships, I think, made everybody jealous.

Why was that show so popular? Everybody wanted that. You wanted to go down to a coffee shop downstairs from your apartment and see everybody. You didn't want to lock your doors. You wanted all of your friends to come in and out of the door. But I think there were things to learn from that. Ways to live.

And yes, what bothered me about it, and what I write about, is the last show. They're all building their lives, and they decide to move out to the suburbs. One of them leaves the apartment that they were in when they have their twin baby babies. It's like, no, that's when you need your community the most. And so one of my points is just,

we are so quick to abandon things for a better job or for more money or for the better school or whatever. When this is a gift, if you have this, I tell people you should decide where to live based on your network of connections and relationships. You should, I know this is crazy to some people, but you should move near your family if you can. If they're not toxic and you're able to do that, I would say take the Luster Paying job and be near family. There was something I saw when I did the research of

history, Sadie, that troubled me about the choices we're making and how we're living and I want us to make better choices. I want us to choose community over nearly every other thing because there's nothing that defines our lives more than the people that are in them and the way we love God. Those are it. The two eternal things are God and people that will go on to eternity. And so that should be a fair reason to choose a place to live. It was why we moved to Dallas, we had family here, and we knew that we could have deep friendships here.

And it's our hope that, you know, it's a joke with my kids. I hope they move that close, they don't have to, we don't put that pressure on them. But we also are like, there's a favor that comes by being close to us. Like just because of the network that we have and the people that know you and have no new for a long time. And so I think there's a protection in that and there's a gift in that. And so I hope people prioritize this in really radical ways after this book. I mean that that's really what I was after was a different way to do life that we would

you know run into each other's different way to do life that we would, you know, run into each other's houses with an announced and that we would choose to live in places where we're truly known. And open up about the things we're scared to open up about. But I really believe this is what we're craving more than anything else. And when we think of the problems we see in the world, anxiety, loneliness, depression, suicidal thoughts, all these things that we so obviously know is out there, there are real ways to combat it. Just like you said, there is something healing that happens when we share our soul, when we're known and seen.

And even if that person doesn't do anything but empathetically listen, there's something unlocked and changed in us when we when we live this way. And oh, we are craving it. I hope it changes. I hope it changes for people. It's beautiful, Ginny. It's so good. I mean, just in my own life,

I can see areas of community I need to grow in from what you've said today. And I also see areas of community that I'm like, man, like I've taken that advice, I've done that. And even just Christian and I living where we live in Louisiana, like we've had a lot of opportunities to live in some other really cool places with honestly some really cool jobs and We've time after time when we get these offers come to each other. Okay, what do we want to do and Family has been the top priority. It's been what we value the most and we just said like okay god

Like this is this is where we want to plant our family. And we just trust that you're gonna do something with that. And it has been the coolest thing seeing what has happened just from being planted near family. And it is a super unassuming town. It's a place where you would never think a ministry would be able to grow out of,

but God's done what only he can. He's not bound by, you know, location or by the, you know, how many people are in your space, like he's actually just able to do huge things because he's a huge God. And so we've been so blessed by that community in our life and that being by family. And this book is just so powerful, so many people are going to be impacted. Once again, you haven't bought find your people already please go buy find your people and just grow to be a better person to live in community with other people because the world needs it. Jenny thank you for your ministry thank you for your time I love

hanging with you girl and this is just awesome. Oh thanks for having me girl. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC