WHOA That's Good Podcast - The Internet Tried To Steal My Confidence…Jesus Won It Back | Sadie Robertson Huff & Emma Mae McDaniel

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

Sadie and Emma go way back, and in today’s convo, Emma opens up about a powerful moment tied to a photo they once took together — and the wave of online bullying that followed. She remembers the world feeling like it stopped as she read all the hateful comments about “the girl in the middle.” In the days after, Emma had a choice: keep torturing herself by reading every comment and believing the lies, or lean into what she knew was true about who she is as a child of God. Her strength and wisdom seriously shine through in this conversation with Sadie. Emma reminds us that we all have our own “girl in the middle” moment — so when that time comes, what will we choose? To boldly live out our faith in the love of God, or to stay in the comfort zone? Get your copy of Emma's book, "The Girl in the Middle" available now!  ⁠https://samaritanspurse.org/occ⁠ — Share God's love with a child in need this holiday season. Join Sadie in packing shoeboxes with gifts for Operation Christmas Child this year! https://adelnaturalcosmetics.com — Get 25% off your first order by using the code SADIE when checking out! Visit https://shopbeam.com/SADIE and use code SADIE to get our exclusive discount of up to 56% off. Chapters: 00:00 Shared history 06:30 Slowing down requires trust too 09:07 Sadie's connection to the story Emma tells in her new book 14:25 Why tell the story now? 18:00 The girl in the middle comment 24:51 Sadie's POV 27:30 Sadie's experience of being bullied online 32:22 Why Sadie won't search her name on Reddit 39:27 Christ is our Solid Rock 45:00 Grief & joy - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We'd love to talk, business. Get no frills delivered. Shop the same in-store prices online and enjoy unlimited delivery with PC Express Pass. Get your first year for $2.50 a month. Learn more at pceexpress.ca.ca. What's up, everybody? I hope you're having a great week, but it is truly about to get so much better because we have one of my favorite reoccurring guests on the Wo That's a good podcast. I think I interviewed Emma before

I actually even had a podcast like back in the day on my YouTube channel. I don't recommend going back and watching that because it's a little bit cringing on my part, but she was always awesome. And the scripture that came out of this girl's mouth back then, I was like, we gotta show the world this. And I'm still filled that way. Emma actually just wrote a new book called The Girl in the Middle. It's out now. This book is going to bless you. And I can't wait to dive more into it. But we have Emma May McDaniel. I'm like having a hard time not saying Jenkins. But McDaniel, thanks for coming back on the Westkin podcast, my friend. Thanks. I'm so happy to be here. I was actually thinking about that on the way here that I always felt so seen by you because

you would always call me by my full name. You would always say Emma Jenkins. And so I thought about that today whenever we were going to be able to sit together because I was like, wait, it's a different name she's going to have to say and i feel like that's abnormal i still get used to it sometimes i don't know why you have always been emma jenkins to me like i call you by your whole name i think it's because your dad jason jenkins i think because you know we have an uncle jace jason that my parents always referred to your dad as jason jenkins so i probably just took that and was like imma jenkins that is hilarious um for those who don't know i'm going to recap a little bit of our friends just because it is really special. Emma and I have known each other since we were little.

Emma was actually best friends with my cousin at a really young age. Like, y'all were really little whenever you and Macy were good friends. And we even went on like family vacation together at one point. So I've always known Emma. And then as the years went on, Emma's family move, we'll talk about some of that. But you just started using your influence for good. I won't give away your book and how that all happened. We'll get into that later. But I have just watched Emma's love for the Lord. Not only bless the world, but it has blessed me so much. I learn so much from you every time I'm around you. That's why when we were young and you were just coming to know the Lord and having such bold faith and studying in scripture, I was like, can I interview you for my YouTube channel?

Because I just want people to like see who you are. And any way I can use my influence to shout you out so that people are just following a great influence I've always wanted to do. You came on our first live original tour and it was like our tour pastor. You did our divos for us. You prayed alongside of us, 16 different cities. I've just always trusted your voice in my life so much.

Even today, Emma came into town to do this podcast and I know I should be asking Emma, what's going on in your life? And all the things in the first thing I do is like, can you give me advice? Like I just trust your voice so deeply. and so thank you for being that for me and for the world. I know you're a sister and a friend to many, many, many people.

And hopefully this podcast will only increase that in your life because if you're listening to this and you haven't been following Emma, she's putting out some really good stuff. You and Josh and your marriage and even motherhood, the way you've just walked it with so much grace has been beautiful. So I have to start by saying that. Wow. And backtracking.

But yeah, you're in a new season now that when we've, first met. So tell us a little bit about what Emma McDaniel's life looks like today. Wow. Well, first off, I feel so encouraged because it truly is a boomerang where I, every time I know I'm going to get to be with you, even if it's for brief moments, I look forward to it because it is a genuine well that is life-giving. It like bubbles over where I know it's going to be encouraging. I know I'm going to be spurred on in my walk with the Lord. I know I'm going to laugh. I know I'm in a safe space to freely be myself. I feel like, especially when you're walking with the Lord, you automatically have this space where I'm going to boldly be who God has called me to be

even whenever people don't necessarily welcome it. But there's a different sense of safety and freedom whenever you know you're welcomed to be full of yourself. And I feel that way with you. That's what a friend does. And so even like I knew we were going to get to sit down and record a podcast today, I was just excited to sit on the couch with my friend. And so to know that you feel that way, too, I'm just grateful. But yeah, this season is so sweet. And honestly, so many things are taking place that I wouldn't have planned out, but there's such a confidence in knowing every day of your life was written in his book before a single one of them came to be. And even in the spaces that are unexpected, even in the spaces that look different than how you thought that

they would, he's there, and he's watching over your life, and he's good, and he has goodness to show you in the unexpected. But I have been married to my husband for four and a half years. He is my best friend ever. He makes me better. I adore that human. And I have a little girl who's two, and I, we are in, like, potty training, reading all the books we were just talking about. Like, every time I sit down, she asks me to read. She always is wanting me to sit with her, I will gladly do it. And we have a little boy who is soon to join our family. So we are in just a really sweet season in that sense. And then also my book just came out. And so we've also been in a, we've been going at a really fast pace where that the Lord set. The Lord set us in a season

recently where we were going at a fast pace to write this book and get to share it with the world. And now I feel that he is slowing my pace as we get ready to step into this newborn bubble. And something I'm learning is that to work really hard and to rest, both require trust. Yeah. It's so true. Stepping into writing this book was one of the hardest things I've ever done. It was one of the biggest steps of faith I've ever done. And it required that I trusted him. But now I feel like as we're getting ready to welcome this next baby into the world, he's closing doors. And he's inviting me to slow down. And that is also calling me to trust in him. And I'm just reminded of like a couple years ago, I took a step back for like a

month off of social media just to be with the Lord and sit with him and pray. And I remember one night having to wrestle with that where like, God, I feel unproductive because I'm not doing as much as I typically do. And I felt that way while I was brushing my teeth before going to bed. But as I was brushing my teeth, I heard the laundry machine going because I like to start the laundry before I go to sleep. And I just felt the Lord say, I work while you rest just as the laundry is going while you go to sleep. Wow. And I'm carrying that. Like he's, it's by his work, by his will, by his grace, by his presence, by his authority that I've gotten to do the work that I've done up until this point. And it's by his work. It's by his grace. It's by his presence. That I'm

stepping into a season where our pace is slowing down. And so I'm really grateful for all that he's teaching me in the work and in the rest and the trust that that's requiring of both. That is so real. I feel that deeply. We're very similar in our pace and in what the Lord has called us to. And that even looks very similar in the way we do it, you know, with podcasts and books and speaking and stuff like that.

And I feel the exact same way. I feel like it takes more trust for me to rest and to work because work comes naturally to me. It's something that excites me. Like things that other people would go, that feels crazy. I would have to have a lot of trust. I'm like, oh, that feels like my flow. It's the slowing down that's like really hard for me. And the Lord's taught me that a lot and that word of working while you're resting is very literal to me a lot of times because even to like go to sleep requires trust, you know.

And for me, because I have like just anxiety sometimes. And so whenever I close my eyes, it's like trusting that you have our family whenever my eyes are closed. And it's like, I always think about how Psalms 91 talks about like being hidden under the shadow of God's wing. And I always am like, okay, they're not, my family's not hidden in the shadow of my wing. My wing span is way too short for that. They're under the shadow of your wing. So I'm in that too, that shadow and in that rest. And so it's cool that you've wrestled that out with the Lord and what it looks like to rest in him.

And he does renew your strength. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. There is a season for everything and a pace to match it, you know, that he says before. So it's really cool. I am so excited to talk all about this book. I have to say when you wrote it and you reached out to me that you were writing this book and you shared this part of your story that starts with chapter one,

And I was so sad because I hated that that is where the story started. And I was a part of such a hard time of your life. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I didn't realize the connection of those things and the timing. But at the same time as I was so sad and really actually very sad that that happened, I was equally so proud of like the person I know because of what you did with us. that. And now to have a book literally called The Girl in the Middle is like just the ultimate redemption, the ultimate fight back to the enemy's face. Someone told me recently like God reveals things to redeem things. And I feel like that is so true. And reading the words here, the girl in the

middle is revealing to redeem something that happened in your life. And so can you share a little bit about where the heart and the title book came from? I would love to. I also, I think it's cool. I don't know if you realize this, but that happened 10 years ago. It was November of 2015. Wow. Yes. And I just, I was talking with a group of college girls recently about this because I just, I feel like there's such a, um, a pressure for hustle. Mm-hmm.

And almost I'm, I'm literally in my mid-20s, but I sometimes wrestle with the lie that I've piqued. Yeah, yeah. That like, God has done what he needed to do in my life. And it can be so defeating. But then I, you like, you look at scripture and you look at the character of God. And it's like, that's not who he is. That's not how he works. And I hear such an encouragement of that same truth in this book because that story took place 10 years ago.

Wow. And now it's not being shared in this capacity until 10 years later. And so I just, I say that because I want to encourage people who are walking. in obedience to the Lord and may feel like, God, where are you? Like, did I fail? Did I hear you wrong? Am I not on purpose anymore? Because it's not being carried out in the timeline I thought it was going to be. His timing is perfect. And sometimes it's a lot slower than how we view the right pace. But it's the perfect pace. But I just think it's so cool that it came out. Me, my mom had been talking about that. It's wild.

10 years later. When I was younger and one of my favorites was packing shoeboxes for Operation Christmas Child. I remember feeling so much excitement that my box can make a difference for another kid somewhere in the world. We actually did this at my school growing up, and it really was one of my favorite memories of Christmas time at school. And that's what Operation Christmas Child is all about. It's really about sharing God's love in a real way, and I think getting to see that at a young age taught me a lot that impacted me later in life like now. Since 1993, they've delivered more than 230 million shoebox gifts to children in over 170 countries, and each one

is an opportunity to share about Jesus. More than 24 million children have said yes to Christ through their discipleship program after receiving a shoebox, which is amazing. So this is not just, you know, giving a gift a shoebox and a gift. It's actually goes so much bigger than that with sharing the love of Jesus. A national collection week is November 17th through the 24th, and boxes will be accepted at nearly 5,000 locations across the country. We've been teaching honey so much about kids all over the world, including our own neighborhoods that do not have as much, do not have access to as much and how we need to be generous with our things and our time, to not only share our gifts, to not only share the things that we have, but to also share the love of Jesus in doing that. And so this is a

great opportunity to do that with your kids, with your family, with your coworkers, with your sorority house, whatever your group looks like. So visit samaritanspurs.org slash OCCC to learn how to pack a shoebox or build one online. That's Samaritansperse.org slash OCC. That's a crazy thing that you said that Because when someone just told me that about God reveals to redeem It was on a three-year anniversary of something that happened And I didn't realize that day was the marking of a three-year thing And I was like, whoa, it just redeemed that day for me so deeply

And so that is actually crazy that it was 10 years ago And of all places to tell this story to you're telling it on my podcast to like everyone when you hear the story you'll know the significance of how crazy this really is but wow look at god and too like and i want to ask you this later first i actually want to hear the story of this but like i do want you to eventually get into because you've had a following for a while so why did you did you wait or i guess i don't know if it was your intention to wait this on to tell this story like why did you wait for the timing of now to share this part yeah that's a really good question um

Yeah, I'll answer that. And then I'll answer why the girl in the middle and the story that that came from. I think I shared in the capacities that the Lord gave to me to share. As he put me in positions where I could just share of his faithfulness and share of how he was working in my life, I did. And then I got to being a sophomore in college. I remember I was sitting in my dorm room and I was dreaming about what my next book. was going to be. Because through, as we'll get into, through ways that the Lord opened doors for me to write books in the past, I had written a couple of devotional books and loved it so much.

And so I was dreaming of how can I continue to write. And I remember reading, I think it's in Psalm 86. I always get confused if it's 86 or 84, but I think it's on 86. And it's where the psalmist, he says, Lord, give me an undivided heart that I may fear your name only. And that stirred such passion in me because one personally, as someone who struggles with fear, fear of messing up, fear of the unknown, fear of things being hard, fear of getting out of my comfort zone, I felt just so compelled to say, like, Lord, searched me and know me, created me a pure heart, and may I fear you more than I fear anything else? And then it just overflowed into this passion for desiring that for other people.

And so I was like, that's what my next book is going to be. I want to help people love God more than they love anything else. I want to help people fear the Lord more than they fear anything else. Have a reverence for him that's so exalted, that fear of what people think, fear of the unknown, fear of messing up. It falls to the wayside. It's brought to their knees because you have such an awe for God. And I was so passionate about it that it was a Bible study I wrote in college. It was called Undivided Heart.

I thought that was the name that the book was going to be. And then long story short, like got a lot of nose from different publishers. And it wasn't until about two or three years ago where the opportunity came up, got opened a door to write it, and then made it clear that it was going to be called the girl in the middle. And it was actually the space where he was going to have me tell my story at a depth and in a detail that I had never done before. And so, no, I don't think I intentionally waited, but I think the Lord, in his own timing, revealed, hey, it's time to share it in this capacity at this depth. But where it comes from, so I, we're like going way back, and I'm sure you remember parts of this story that I don't remember and vice versa. But we, as we would always do, came down to Louisiana for the holidays because I, being from here, but moving around everywhere, would come back and see family. family. And so we were here for Thanksgiving. I wanted to come and hang out with you and Mary Kate

and your cousins. And we were just hang out at like a frozen yogurt shop. And it was right before your basketball game because we were all still in high school. Heroback. Yes. But this was still, this was like right after dancing with the stars. It was in the like right in the big time of Duck Dynasty. It was in full swing. I guess it's a good way to say it. And so God had already given you such a sphere of influence that you were pouring into that you were navigating. So that's kind of where we were in life. I was a sophomore in high school. And I remember we took a picture before heading to your basketball game where Mary Kate

was on one side. You were on the other and I stood in the middle. Nothing intentional about that. That's just how we stood. And then we hop in the car and go to the basketball game. And you posted that picture. I like go find my seat in the bleachers once we get to the gym. And I am not surprised that the post is getting a lot of attention because, like, of the sphere of influence that the Lord had given you.

But when I went to check my phone, that was when I was surprised in a way that really rocked my world. I, and I don't think I've ever told you this, but the reason that it rocked my world, I feel like I'm, like, I'm leaving a dot, dot, dot, dot as I say this. It rocked my world because I turned to look at my phone and I see that what turned out to be hundreds of comments following one was who is that ugly girl in the middle. And that one comment, who is that ugly girl in the middle, it like set the tone. It set the whole like theme for the comment section. And the whole comment section turned into everybody's opinion about the girl in the middle, about my smile, about my appearance and guys talking about whether or not I was. date worthy and all of their opinions and I ended up finding out that the person who originally commented that was a guy from my high school who I was like I was in home

room with like we he knew me and so there was a different cut there too because it was it made it a little bit more personal and so I'm sitting in the bleachers and I it was one of those moments where it's so loud yet at the same time it feels like the world stands still because as a teenager, as any person, but as a teenager, you crave to be liked. You crave to be welcomed. You crave to be wanted. You crave to be thought of as beautiful. And so to be told that you're not, to be told that you need to change to fit the mold,

to have people talk to you in a way that it's almost like they don't realize you're human. They have this confidence because it's behind a screen. It puts you in this place of like insecurity is loud. but also at this point in my life I had known the Lord for two years two years prior I had committed to not just like I'm I'm a Christian but I'm a Christian and that means something that means that I am sealed in the spirit that means I have I have been made right with God that means I'm a friend of God that means I have access to his presence and I was growing in confidence in that through getting into his word so it's a like I was sitting, ironically enough, I was sitting in the middle of a decision to make in that moment where I could either give in to fear of what everybody thought of me. I could quiet down my smile because people didn't think it was pretty. I could stop being so bold in how I expressed myself. I could just hide out of a fear of just I don't want to be bullied again, so I'm just going to

hide. Or I could rely on the truth that I had been hiding in my heart for two years that God says I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. He says I'm made in his image. He says that the joy that I have is not cringy, but it's actually a testament of the fullness of his presence alive inside of me. And so I say this not to diminish how weighty that was. But I say that to say, I was in the middle of either letting fear call the shots or choosing to go with God even when it was hard. And this book, The Girl in the Middle, though it sounds like by me sharing the stories about me, it's actually not about me. This story just sets the premise of the reality that we're all the girl in the middle. Because every single day we sit in the middle of a decision to make.

Am I going to let fear? Am I going to let excuses? Am I going to let my comfort zone and convenience call the shots? Or am I going to go with him even when it's costly? Am I going to go with him even when it's unpopular? Am I going to go with him even though my feelings aren't in it? And so through the book, I'm really hoping to encourage and equip you as the girl in the middle to choose to go with God no matter what, whenever there are very valid reasons why you could back off and hide.

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Sadie for 25% off your first order. Be sure to follow at Adele Natural Cosmetics on Instagram for tutorials, updates, and encouraging content and use my code Sadie at Sadie for 25% off your first order. I just think back to that time and what's so why. from my perspective of the way that panned out is Mary Kate and I wanted to hang out with you because we had seen your transformation and didn't understand it in the sense of like you yeah you were a Christian like we were a Christian but you came back into town and you were set on fire for the Lord in a way at the time I had never seen someone our age beyond set on fire for

the Lord I remember you came back and you had the biggest smile in the world and everybody at church was talking about it in a way of like have you seen how happy Emma Jenkins is like she's like no like she's so happy like she smiles so much and like it's like her tone change like you your voice was different and in a very sweet and tender way and I was like what happened like what what happened in her life and people were telling me this or that and like you love Jesus and you're studying the word and I remember your mom saying no you should see her room There's scriptures covering her wall. There's scriptures covering her closet.

You should hear her morning routine. She wakes up and dances with the Lord. Like, you're going all in on your faith with the Lord. And I was like, I want to know more. I want to learn because I want to be like that. Like, I want my tone to change. Like, I want to know the word like that. How do you do that?

And I don't know that you realize that. That Mary Kate and I, like, we were like so curious. Like, what happened to Emma Jenkins? And every time you'd be around, I would want to learn. and I would ask you, like, what is your morning routine look like? What scriptures are you said? I remember you telling me about going through putting your armor on whenever you would get dressed in the mornings. Like, I was really learning from you at the time. I still am. I said that at the beginning of podcast. And so for me, it was like so devastating because in a time where I'm sitting here

learning from the girl in the middle, you know, we get out and it's like people are saying all this stuff. And obviously it snowballed into something that I hate and shows the ugliness of online. But at the same time, what I've seen God do with it for 10 years later, you're not telling that story as a, you know, oh, it was so hard to be bullied in high school. Although it was really, really, really hard and very weighty. But you're telling it as in like, hey, every girl in the middle, let me tell you, I'm still bold in my faith. I still smile this big. I'm still like, found the joy of the Lord as my strength. And what a, what a redemption story.

like that is so beautiful and I think back to high school um you know for me um and like I just really have a lot of empathy because I remember the day that that happened to me where like my world was robbed by internet bullying and stuff and mine was um you know I was dating this football player who was a quarterback and there was a time where Twitter was like the worst I'm sure you remember. I feel like you and I had similar experiences where Twitter was just brutal. To me, it worsened other platforms. And this whole page called Total Frat Move posted this big thing on me. And it was like the ugliest, the ugliest person to ever date a SEC quarterback or whatever, whatever it was, something like that. I remember this. It was so brutal. And it was like,

the words that they said were so bad and I still remember them. But the worst part was they put up all the pictures of the other girlfriends with me in the middle of all of them. And obviously I did not look like the rest of them. The rest of them were like cheerleaders and pageant girls very thin, like not very clothed and like very made up. And it's me and it was like this silly like picture of me like. and I remember looking at that and being like so insecure but also like so embarrassed that

other people saw that you know like I was I was embarrassed for myself and I was like really insecure about how it made me feel but I was also embarrassed like everybody at my school was talking about it and there is that temptation in that moment to go okay well I could change like I can dress less I can do my makeup more I can post more provocative pictures I can pose like that if I want to. But is that what I want? You know, is that actually what I want? Do I really want to be the girl that just looks hot? Do I really want to be the girl that like, okay, I'm not getting bullied online anymore? At least people aren't talking about. At least I'm not embarrassed. And I was like, no. Like that's not actually what I want. That's actually not what I'm

desiring. That's not the goal for my life. Like, I want to be the light of the world. I want to live original. I want to do the things God has called me to do. And in doing that and in sharing my faith, sometimes that's going to come with being misunderstood. Sometimes that's going to come with being roasted online. Sometimes it's going to come with hateful comments and unfollows and whatnot. But like, that's when you have to get clear on your why. Your foundation has to be strong. And so I'm just curious at that time. You had two years before that as a time to build your foundation. But after that, did you go through anchoring that? more? Were your parents helping you at the time? Were friends helping you? Like,

realistically, for girls sitting out there in those kind of middle moments where they feel ugly, where they feel insecure, where they're wrestling with that, what am I going to do about it? How did you build that foundation so solidly? Yeah. So that's so good. It's funny that this is coming to my mind because I feel like we've talked about this in different settings, but I can't help would think about someone. And the reason I think about someone is because it was the motto of our home in high school, which was the peak of so much bullying in my life. And my dad would quote it over us all the time. And it says, blesses the man who doesn't walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers. What that's basically saying

is it matters who your close circle is. It matters who's advice. you're taking. It matters who's speaking into your life, who's walking the walk with you. And that is point one definitely a big factor in how I was able to continue to boldly live out my faith and how I was able to continue to submit to the authority of God's word and not the words of people is I had people in my life who knew me, who loved me, who knew God, who loved God, and kept reminding me what was true, who were a safe place when I would come and cry. My parents would say, hey, you don't need to be reading these things. Like a lot of the comments that probably were so brutal, I don't even know what they said because a lot of the comments I didn't even read.

Because my parents were so intentional to say, hey, that's not feeding your soul, life-giving things. It's not going to help you continue to pour into people well. It's not going to help you continue to walk the walk. So don't give time to it. And so just even having those hard conversations where. It's funny how you can have such a pool of curiosity to read things about you that aren't going to be lifegiving. That is so true. And somebody needs to say that.

It's like, you don't have to read it. You know what I have never done and will never do is go on what's the app, like Reddit. I'm never going to type in my name on that. I don't want to know. I don't need to know everyone's opinion on me. I've had a friend say like, have you ever looked at you and Christian on Reddit and like, no, don't tell me? Because I have people in my life who speak into my life who know who. who we are and can encourage us and correct us.

Yes. And they do both of those things. Encourage us and correct us. Yes. I don't need all of online telling me what they perceive about me or my relationship from their perspective through a screen. And it's that curiosity will pull you in and be like, well, what do people say? And what do you don't realize is it will then shape how you act because then you'll

have their voices in your mind the whole time you're communicating publicly thinking, okay, well, how is this going to come off or what's just going to say? And I'm just thankful to have a free mind of that to go, I'm not doing it for that. You know, I know why we do what we do. I know who we are. And the voices of man is not going to shape that. It's not going to steer the direction of how I'm living and, you know, using my influence. Like, that comes from the Lord.

And so I love that you said that because there is such a pool of curiosity that makes you just go, I just want to know. And then you know and you're like, kind of wish I didn't know. Yeah, that didn't help me. That wasn't beneficial to my soul. And it makes me think of in Proverbs 29. It says that the fear of man is like a dangerous trap. But trusting in the Lord is a safe place. And that word safe place, if you look up the meaning behind it, when I originally read it, I just thought, oh, like, it's an amazing thing.

It does. It keeps me safe. It guards me. It holds me secure. But whenever you read it, it actually means like to elevate. and I was so moved whenever I learned that because I thought wow that's so true I'm I'm brought it's like he gives me the feet like a deer so may stand on great heights like he enables me to see things from a perspective that's heavenly like I'm said he helps me set my eyes not on what is seen but on what is unseen and having people call you out say hey I know you're curious I know you're I know you're afraid of what people are thinking of you and that fear of what they think of you that longing for them to like you is pulling you you towards wanting to see what they've written, but trust in the Lord and act out and trust in him by not looking. And in doing so, it elevates you to help you see the situation for what it is

when reading the comments, getting tied into what people are saying. It keeps you on ground level and it keeps you from being able to like navigate it in a way of wisdom. So people, definitely. Second thing, someone keeps going. And it says, but blessed is he who delights in the word of God. who meditates on his law day and night. And then he goes on, like, he will be like a tree that's planted by streams of water. His fruit will yield and seize. And he goes on to talk about the Lord knows the ways of the righteous, but not so the wicked. It's a beautiful short psalm.

But that second part of the Word of God, being a lamp to your feet and a light to your path, it is true. If anything, bullying taught me firsthand the power of the power. of the words my God speaks because I would be told in one moment how beautiful I was and I would be told in the next moment how ugly I was. And it turned into bullying over my faith. I would be told in one moment how much my joy and my walk with the Lord inspired people. And I would be told the next moment how my faith was a fairy tale and I'd been brainwashed into believing in Jesus. What are you supposed to believe about yourself? What are you supposed to believe about your God? What are you supposed to believe about your purpose, about your identity, about your value whenever that's your, that's your steering wheel?

But I was firsthand witnessing, my God stays the same. He's not like the shifting shadows. He is my father of lights who is steady. He's my father of lights who, like you said, he anchors me. And so the word I had been hiding in my heart for so long, it had come to a point where, okay, I'm not just, it's one thing to know the word. and be able to spout it off, it's another thing whenever you're put in the fire, and it's like, do you actually believe it? Like, I can quote it on a Sunday morning class.

I can share it with a friend. I can be asked like, hey, what's a verse on identity? But whenever I'm questioning my identity, is it what I'm leaning on? And I think that was a big game changer for me. Is this just something that I know? And maybe some people know that I know it? Or is this actually like the lane? I'm running in. And I chose to run in that lane, not perfectly, but I chose to actually believe

this is true. This is real. Like, this is, this is it. And that changed my life. It kept me steady whenever the opinions of people were anything but that. Wow, that's amazing. Okay, moms, cold and flu season has rolled in. And suddenly getting your kids eat anything healthy feels impossible. Been there, I've done that. That's exactly why I love Beam Kids. If you've been listening to my show for a while, you know that I love Beam Kids and talk about it a lot. If you ask my girls what that is, it's their daily chocolate milk.

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And a lot of times we didn't realize is like we were singing scriptural. so often. Like I'll be re-inscription, but I know this whole thing because of the hymns I would sing. And even though so often listen to more contemporary worship music, when I sing over my kids at night, a lot of times I'm singing the hymns. That's just what comes out. And I was thinking about on Christ, all the rock, ice sand, all other ground is sinking sand. And it's true. Like, all other ground really is sinking sand. If you try to let the opinions of man, and what they think about you, give you your purpose and your identity

and your vision for the feet and all of it. It's sinking sand. But to stand on a word and to stand on the hope of a faithful God who was the same yesterday, today, and forever, it's how you can be in Emma's position in 10 years after having such hard online bullying and other things that you walk through in life. Stand here now as a woman who is so full of the spirit,

so full of faith, in love with a man who is God, fearing who honors you and loves you, has a beautiful family that you're raising and still declaring the goodness of God and write books about it, you know? I know your life hasn't been perfect. I know you've been through hard things, but to stand strong like that shows you've been on a solid foundation. And it was not just words you knew when you were high school or coming on YouTube and spitting out scripture, but it was words you truly believe and took to heart. And it has shaped who you are in the most beautiful way that everybody wants. to sit at your feet and listen and learn.

And that doesn't mean you have to be perfect at all, at all. You are so covered in His grace and can be so you, but it's beautiful to watch someone else walk through the highs and lows of life and be honest about it and then go, but this is true. And this has shaped me and this has anchored me. I want to ask you because, like you said, the girl in the middle isn't just about you and it's certainly not just about you in high school.

something I found myself doing is like even just writing books and stuff I've had editors say a lot of your stories are from high school and I think for a little while they were I've kind of gotten I've gotten out of that now but for a little while they were because that was such a pivotal time out of my life and it was shaping me into who I was becoming and all of that and they were right I was referring to that a lot and at a time I feel like it became a lot easier to talk about the past and you know talk about how I was. walk through that. And the things I got confident, like, oh, yeah, I can talk about identity. I can talk about fear. I can talk about those things. It's a little bit harder to talk about things in the moment. And so I'm not, you don't have to share as much as you don't want to share. But I know in the past year, you've walked through some hard things that have put you in the middle again in a different way. How has this message not only been true to like your high school self and online bullying, but stayed true to you even now and the struggles you're walking through as a 26, 7-year-old? Yeah. I love that question so much. And I, this is so cool. I have to say this because you just, you brought in this passage and I've been sitting in it so much. And it's where Jesus is talking about like the solid rock versus the sand that one built their house on. And that's like a passage that even if you're not a believer is can be, it can be familiar to a lot of people. And I love the word of God.

and how you can read something that you've known since you were little, maybe even before you knew Christ, and he shows you something in it that you've never seen. And this goes into answering your question. But I was reading it recently, and I just thought, wow, if you look at Jesus describing this passage, he says, the person who hears my word and does it will be like a man who built his house on the rock. And the rains came, and the winds blew.

Storm came in, and the house stood firm. The person who hears my word and does not do them is like a man who built his house on the sand. The rains came, winds blew, storm came in, and his house crumbled, and great was the fall of it. But what I noticed recently in that passage is that the difference in those two stories is not that one experienced a storm and the other didn't. And that just hit me so hard that the aftermath of someone hearing God's word and doing it. Like you're walking the walk. The response wasn't and a storm didn't come. Yep, yep, yep, yep.

The response, just like the man who heard the word and didn't do it, the storm came in both of their lives. The difference was not only that one applied the word and the other didn't, but the difference was what they were building their house on. And yeah, my book is all about boldly living out your faith in your every day because it isn't just in high school. It isn't just in certain moments. It's a daily walk. And we have, this year has had a, it's been a roller coaster. We're so grateful to be expecting our sweet little boy.

And I hold a tender gratitude for this little boy in a way that's different because we lost our baby. just like in this year. So this year we've experienced some of the most intense grief and some of the most intense joy. Wow. We, I will never forget the elation of something unexpected. We didn't, we weren't like looking to get pregnant right when we did. So it was just a gift of a surprise.

and we like stayed up dreaming about how like like life was about to change we were like I pulled out my notes app and we were writing out a list of names like it was it was just so exciting um and then to wake up mornings later and have to be called in by the doctor because they were like hey this is like we need you to come in and this is alarming and you get the news that like the life that you carried is no longer there um that grief will never go away until he returns. Like it will always be something that I carry. And it's something that I wrestled with too because I didn't know about that baby long. And I hope to encourage someone that whether you carried your baby for four weeks or you carried your baby for four months, like life is life and your grief is not less valid because you knew them for four weeks. like life is life and your grief is not less valid because you knew them for the less amount of time and I had women speak into my life the validity of my grief and it almost gave me permission to cry and I was so grateful for that so I hope someone hears that that was life that was lost and

you have full permission to cry and the Lord cries with you and he collects every tear but going back to the word of God. I love how Scripture says that the Spirit reminds you of what is true. And I had not been in Psalm 46 in years. And all I could think about was the Lord is my refuge and my help. He's my ever-present help in times of trouble. My refuge and my fortress, that's who he is. And it just kept coming up and what I was so anchored in,

And that was, okay, he's not only near in my safe place and not only loves me up into a certain point. He's here when I'm in the pit. He's here when I'm angry. He's here when I'm confused. He's here when I am, I feel like I have no more tears left to cry. Like he's there. And I, in the, there's a chapter in my book called Go and it's hard. hard to go with him even when it doesn't make sense to go with him even whenever things are

weighty and you realize wait but I can I'm going with him and he's steadying me he I'm I don't even feel you have the energy to go with him but he's carrying me in his arms and my house is not crumbling the fall is not great not because the storm didn't come not because I I'm not experiencing hard things, not because I'm not getting bullied in high school and not because I'm not experiencing grief in motherhood. But in every season, like, I will declare that the Lord is faithful. I will declare this was another season that I can still say, I am firsthand witnessing the power of God's word. I am firsthand witnessing that he is my ever present help. Like there's nowhere I'll go. There's nothing I'll experience that he is in.

there with me and like to to boldly live out your faith in your every day it's a god i i trust you because it's like peter it's like it makes me think of john six where so many people leave jesus because they're weirded out he's like he's talking about blood and flesh and and jesus turns to his disciples he's like are you going to leave me to and peter's like where else would i go it's like you come to those moments where it's like you've proven yourself so faithful that even though this storm is brutal where else would I go where else would I go there's nowhere else I want to go because even if I tried to go there by myself I couldn't carry myself I did it mm-hmm all right I am not a world-class cooked by any means but did you all know

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our place kitchenware and with their 100 day risk-free trial, free shipping and free returns, you can shop with total confidence. Shop the R-place Black Friday sale right now. There's no code needed. Guys, go stock up. You'll be glad you did. Christian and I have asked us our self-set question in some of the hardest wrestles that we've had with our faith. It ultimately gets down to where else would I go. And I don't want to go anywhere else because I know I couldn't do this alone. And if I did it outside of you, there would actually be no hope because what else is there to life? You know, I mean, really, when you wrestle with it that deeply, you do kind of get to the where else would I go.

And I actually don't want to go anywhere else because even though this is hard, you are faithful. And I know that to be true of who you are. I think about Cody Carnes' firm foundation. When we moved into our house, I went and bought like a canvas from Hobby Lobby and some black paint. And I was holding Haven in my arms. And I just wrote out the lyrics, Christ is my firm foundation, the rock on which I stand when everything is going under. is that it's hard to say a song and not sing a song and it says I've never been more glad that I put my hope in Jesus the rock in which I stand and what I've always loved about that song is I remember

the first time I sang it in a crowd full of people and everybody is so effortlessly sings out I've never been more glad and I'm always like that's so funny because the truth is like no one feels happy in that moment no one feels glad in that moment in the sense of like you're not like glad you're going through something. But the point is not saying, oh, I'm just joyful in the midst of hard things. I've never been more glad that I put my faith in Jesus. It's not, I'm glad I'm going through this. I'm actually hate this right now. It's so hard. It's a wrestle. I wish that this was not the way life was panning out, but I'm so glad I put my faith in Jesus because had I not, I would be crumbling. Had I not, the house would be gone, you know? Yeah. And, um,

in its imperfection, that canvas still stands at the very front of our house when you first walk through our door. I misspelled something and it's my messy handwriting, but I was like, but this is my life and our family and our home. And it is messy and it is imperfect, but it is on the solid rock of Christ. And so I love that you brought that out. And that's been a theme of everything you've shared is it goes back to the word. It goes back to the anger.

It goes back to the foundation. So beautiful. You're such a gift, Emma. You really are. I mean that this. I said this in the prayer we pray before this podcast. And I deeply believe this will be a podcast people come back to and listen over and over again as they walk through trials in their life. And I hope that as they listen, they hear scripture after scripture that you've been speaking and it will lead them to the word and the love of God. I know you have this book out, which everyone should go get. But I also know you have other things through compelled with locals and global and all the things. How can people? people get plugged into the ministry that you've been doing. Yeah. Oh, that's so fun. So my nonprofit is called Compelled and it comes from 2 Corinthians 5, 14, and 15 where Paul says the love of Christ compels us because we're convinced that one died for all, therefore all died so that those who live may no longer live for themselves. They no longer live compelled by fear. They may no longer live compelled by excuses. They no longer live compelled by their comfort zone and their own temporary

conveniences, but for him who died and was raised, and that is the heart of our whole ministry is helping women know the love of Christ and live compelled, boldly live out their faith in the love of Christ. So if you live near Northwest Arkansas, we have monthly gatherings. We would love for you guys to come and connect in godly community to be poured into, to be fresh and be sent out further equipped. And my podcast is now the compelled podcast, where it's, I pray, a research. source for women to grow in their love for the word and then not just be heroes of the word

but be doers because it truly does equip you to stand even when the storms come awesome come on girl i love it cheering you on so loudly thank you for um stepping in 10 years later and into a epic redemption story i pray this book bless this so many people if you're out there right now truly get your phone out type in the girl in the middle on amazon or anywhere you get your books i looked it up i know it's Amazon it can prime that baby to your house prime it to your house get this you'll be so blessed by it Emma thanks for coming on the podcast so much it's so good oh my gosh