WHOA That's Good Podcast - True Change Isn't Possible Through a Self-Help Book | Sadie Robertson Huff & Ann Voskamp

Episode Date: January 18, 2023

Are you ready to change your life? Sadie's guest, author Ann Voskamp, says we should start practicing gratitude. You can't be fearful and grateful at the same time! You are not alone in your hard story! Ann shares how she came to be the first Christian in her family, how she met her husband, and how her blog with about 800 subscribers paved the way for her to then write the bestselling book "One Thousand Gifts." Ann encourages us that if we're TRULY looking for transforming change in our lives, we need to look to the cross, NOT self-help books! Sadie reminds us that God doesn't need us to position ourselves in such a way that He can use us — He can do it without us! Not sure of where to start? Ann's advice: Do what you love, where you are, and see what can happen! Plus, what is "cruciformation?" And Ann tells her family's story as an encouragement for any parents considering adoption. Pre-order Ann's new children's book, "Your Brave Song":  https://www.tyndale.com/p/your-brave-song/9781496446541 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oh my god! Oh my god! What's up, fam? Welcome back to the world that's going on a podcast. Happy Wednesday, everybody. I hope you're having a great week. But per usual, it is about to get way better. Because I have a fantastic guest on the podcast.

I'm so excited to interview. I have Ann Voss-Kimp on the podcast. She is probably no stranger to any of you. She's written several books, and now she has a children's book out, which I am super excited about, called Your Brave Song. I'm excited because I get to read these children's books to Honey, and not only do I get to minister to Honey

through that, but it ministers to me when authors like Ann write children's books. So Ann, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. Thanks for taking the time to just be on and I encourage all of us. So good to be with you, Sadie. And it makes my heart sing to think about, I mean, as a mama of seven kids,

I have read thousands and thousands of books to kids, we homeschooled our kids. It was like two hours of reading every day and then tucking kids into bed at night. And you're right, Sadie, when we go ahead and when we read books as the mother, yes, we want to impart something to our children, but it's also really beautiful when the book is actually speaking to parts of our own souls too. It's true and it happens so many times. Oh, man, I have this one book.

I've read over honey so many times. Like, you know, honey picked the book, but I end up picking that one every night. And it always just speaks to me. Like, it makes me tear you out sometimes whenever I read it. It's called, what's it called? It's called, Good Night, My Darling Dear is the one. And I don't know if you've read that one, but it's's beautiful and I was thinking when I got yours and I have to say the reason I don't have it here today to show up y'all the beautiful cover it is

is because I brought it home yesterday to read it to honey and I forgot to bring it back but I have to say what's really cool about the book too is my mom just saw it walking past me and she goes that book is beautiful and I go oh it's Ann Voskey and she's like no way and it really is just a stunning book the message is so beautiful and since I've read Goodnight My Darling Dear so many times I'm excited to have a new one to add into the pile of just such a beautiful story and book and so first of all mom of seven kids whoa I have a lot to learn from you um Just writing a children's book with all the thousands that you've read.

What was it that you really were like, you know, I want to write a children's book because I want this message to get across. It's such a good question, Sadie. I think when we read a children's book, we want to, as parents, we need to write, read a book that is not boring for us as a parent, to read over and over and over again. It has to be a message that a parent needs as much as a child

needs. And I think so, writing this particular book is a book that as much speaks to a parent's heart, as it does to a child's heart. And I think really, really say to you, so our children run an age is now from 27 down to 8. We have four boys and three girls. The first six were biological kids, where we had six kids across 10 years, and then we have a 10-year gap. And then Shaila, our youngest is a job from China. And Shaila has literally half of a heart.

And Shaila's dealing with medical trauma. She's dealing with adoption trauma. She's terribly shy in a big world. And writing your brave song really is about how do we go ahead and give our, equip our children with tools to be resilient in a hard world. And I think in all of our minds, all of the time, there's a soundtrack that's running. And that soundtrack lots of times tells us that we're not enough, that we don't belong, that everybody else is connected and popular and fits.

And I'm the one that is isolated and alone and not good enough. And I really wanted your brief song to be about what kind of soundtrack can play in my child's heart and mind. And in my heart and mind, this is I'm seen and I am known I am loved and I am strong not in and of myself but in Christ's strength I am strong to move forward regardless of what a day looks like or what the challenges look like. Good gosh that's such an important message and I'm so glad you're sharing it. One thing I love about you is that you don't shy away from talking about the hard things in life. And that is a gift to everyone who gets to listen to you because

I think that you know we are so saturated with every good thing happening in someone else's life which is encouraging and can be fun to see in and of itself. But there is this aspect of there are really hard things that we're going to walk through and there are hard things that everybody walks through. Not one person can escape the reality of that and I love that you're so open and honest about that. When was it for you that you decided you know what I'm going to share the hard things in my story or have you always been someone that kind of just shares What God's doing in your life So good Sadie

First of all, I think sometimes Screens all around us And the noise all around us can kind of sell the lie that if you buy this do this Your life can look as beautiful as this and that you think that, okay, if I just plug this formula into my life, I can find a way through that avoids suffering and pain and hardship. And that is the lie from the pit. This is a broken world. And no matter what we do, our hearts are going to break.

And I think we do each other. Yes, I strongly, I mean, there's someone who wrote a book about gratitude and writing down 1,000 things I'm grateful for. I believe in focusing on the good and the beautiful. But joy and pain are two arteries of the same heart of everyone who's fully alive. So we talk about the good and the beautiful from the Lord.

We also talk about the pain and the suffering and how our hearts have been broken in a broken world because we give each other the gift of knowing I am not alone in a hard story. And we each need to, we can give each other the gift of witness and witness. I'm with you in this heart story. Because I have my own heart story. I see you just like God is the God who is with us, just to see is the God of Hegar. He says like, I see you. When we give each other the gifts of witness and witness, we know that we're not alone. It's good. In our heart stories. And that's the gift we get to give each other and we give it by saying, I'll go first. I will tell you my heart story. And I will tell you that God not only is he good in this heart story,

he is a loving kind abba father in the story. And he's taking all the hard things in my life that are stories that I would do anything to get out of. He is working in that story to redeem it and to make it good. That's so encouraging. Thanks for saying that. And let me think about, I heard in the interview one time, you said this and I'm probably going to botch the word because I pronounce, I'm pronounced words incorrectly all the time. It is like, it's a wonder I get in front of a mic all the time knowing that I'm probably going to do that. We know how you're in front of a mic.

I'm here again in front of a mic all the time knowing that I'm probably gonna do that My gosh my sweet mom always was just lean everyone whisper like the right way to say it which is so great So um you can be the one to tell me but you are talking about in this interview this idea of just being Open with your story and not you know shine inward and you said that hits the posture of Cruciford Mace shine inward and you said that it's the posture of crucifurmation. Yeah, it is. crucifurmation. Okay, and actually, I love this. This is every thing for me.

I love this idea. So can you share that? Yeah. Yeah, so crucifurmation is, how is my life? My thoughts, my words, my posture. crucifurmation formed in shape like a cross. And I really believe that everything that, everything I'm expect to, if we want transformation,

it means that we have to look like cruciformation. Because I believe that all change happens through the power of the cross. So how much does my life, my thoughts, my words, look cruciform. And that means cruciform looking like a cross means that that vertical cross means that that vertical beam means everything that comes down from the Lord I'm going to take

give it back up to the Lord in praise and thanksgiving and worship. That's what that vertical beam looks like and that cross-brain cross beam that horizontal beam that's stretching out looks like how do I live given out into the world reaching both to towards God and towards people? So I want everything in my life to look cruciform. And ultimately, when you are living a life, a cruciformation is a life that looks surrendered. It's good. It's a life that looks given out into the world. And I think lots of times we all want change and change doesn't come through a self-help book. Yeah. Change comes through the cross. So how if I want real transformation and change in my life,

it's going to come back to what does crucifirmation look like in my life? Well, that is so good. This is why this podcast is called, well, that's good, by the way, for moments like this, when you just drop that. I believe so much that everything comes back to crucifirmation because in that crucifirmation room, that act of surrender, that's where resurrection is going to happen.

Change and transformation is going to happen. I actually have tattoos right there on my wrist. That cross. So do you remember all actually Shiloh, our eight-year-old who is on that kind of a likeness ever on the front cover of your bracelet. She actually takes a little pen now and she draws the cross on her. Yes, but she goes even further, which is wild, maybe going to cry. She actually puts the cross and then she goes, but mama, the dot means the stone is rolled away. And then I do a heart because I want to live that kind of love in the world. So in a way.

Oh my. Yes. So we all, so my, um, in Canada, you can't get a tattoo if you're under the age of 18. So my 17 year old daughter does not have her cross tattoo. But my 19 year old son who just turned 20, he went and got his money as 18. And he says, now, oh, we should all go get little stones and little hearts like Shiloh draws on that so few. But I really believe can I remember? Can I remember that I'm supposed to be formed in shape like a cross in everything? Because I think when we think about parenting,

there's this whole movement towards well, are you going to be a helicopter parent? Or are you going to be like a tiger parent or kind of like post your child into everything? And I really believe the Sadie, the kind of parents God's called us to be, our signposts parents where everything in our life points to the cross, points to the gospel, points to the good news of what Jesus can do and completely change us. So that cross-emite risk reminds me not only am I supposed to live cruciform in all things, but also reminds me how am I being a signpost parent pointing my kids back to the complete sufficiency that is founded in Jesus alone?

That's so good. Gosh, that's a life changing perspective right there. That's amazing I love that so much. You know as you're talking of so many things I want to talk to you about but as you're talking I'm like, you know I don't know that I really know your whole story of how did you go from living on a farm to now being near Times best seller speaker all there and even in your past life you talk about having all these fears and now you're like You're doing all these interviews. There's so much of your story that I'm like,

I feel like I don't know how I went from this to this. So tell us a little bit about your story because you dig up on a farm and now you're not, well now you actually store on a farm, you're husband's a farmer. We're still on a farm, I'm sitting out here in my tiny house there, or sheep outside my house. I love it.

Maybe lay out on this thing. sitting out here in my tiny house there are sheep outside my little baby lambs. So I grew up on a farm and I was the first Christian in my family. I didn't grow up in a believing home. I got saved in a good news Bible Club. My first memory is when I was four years old. I was standing at the chair at the kitchen sink with my mom on the standing at the chair at the kitchen sink with my mom on wash and dishes and out the kitchen window. My 18 month old baby sister was tall and cross the farm yard after a stray cat. And she was, she was crushed and killed by a service truck in our yard. And my first memory is my little sister being killed in front of my mom and I

and a little kid. I was I was terrified of the world where you could like people you love could die right in front of you. And so when I was seven years old and grade two, I was diagnosed with ulcers because like fear kind of just leading out my gut. And by the time I was in my teenage years, I was I was cutting all through my teenage years. I didn't know what to do with the fears and the pain. And I didn't get saved until my late teenage years. And then I, when I was at university, I started having panic attacks and a sagnost

with a gaurophobia, which just kind of fears of places where you don't think you can get out of kind of like a being on a podcast. Yeah. Yeah. God has a sense of humor, right? Totally. But I really, my knee working through my fears,

that has been a long journey. But really, when someone dared me to write down, she actually dared me to write down 1,000 things, 100 things I loved. And I picked up the pen and started writing things and started realizing, oh wow, what I'm really doing here is like counting all the ways that God actually loves me and is giving me gifts. So I dare myself to write down a thousand gifts, which is the story I unpack in my first book. At the time, did you know that you liked to write were you a writer or did you just do that?

The processing, yeah, this is such a good question city. For me, from the time I was probably 14, 15, 16, all the way through my university years, journaling was the way I process pain. If trying to process, trying to articulate where my own soul was that, trying to write out the pain. So I actually, 1,000 gifts, my first book, then start off as a book. It's really just, I was always a journalist. I had just started journaling while my process and how actually gratitude and writing down the things I was grateful for became

like became the stress intervention for me. It actually became like you got you can't simultaneously feel fear and gratitude at the same time and gratitude radically transformed my life where I started to see like, oh, because I really did believe that in so much of our, in all of us, have faced terrible situations and all kinds of traumas in our own lives. And when we start to write down the things we're grateful for, we realize, oh, look at the hand of God is here. God is my Jehovah Jaira, who is providing for me in the midst of the situation.

And it starts to rewire our mind instead of looking at all of being vigilant for all of the terrifying things that could happen next, which was my story. It starts to go, oh, I can be safe. My abba father is here with me. And gratitude became the posture of my life. So, so, 1000 kisses my first book unpacking, how gratitude transformed everything. Broken way really was about, my second book was about, if gratitude really is about us coming to the Lord's Supper, he takes the bread, to the Lord's upper, he takes the bread, I mean, it's about to go to the cross. He takes the bread and what's he do? He gives thanks and then breaks it and passes it on.

So if 1,000 gifts was unpacking about how gratitude changed my life, broken away was unpacking about how does living a life of crucifirmation, living a crucifirm life where you live broken and given shape like a cross, passing all the gifts that you've been given on out into the world. How did it change my life in them? And my last book, Waymaker, really is about how do I have not looked for a way through?

But do I have a way of life, a rhythm of life, a way of being that takes me into his presence, which is my promised land, and that way of life, that rhythm of life, is a sacred way of life, and the sea of sacred is crucifirmation, and the sea of sacred is toxicology giving thanks. So those two have been like markers for me. It's powerful. Because I think all of us are living,

like you said, right at the top, say to everybody's living really brutally hard stories. Do you have a way of life that keeps you in company with Jesus who becomes your actual way through? Wow. That is so powerful. Your story is so inspiring. One thing I love and just want to draw out of your story is that your story is really

it's really hard. It's very real. I'm sure other people can relate to having a very difficult upbringing and something traumatic happening and taking your life in such a direction. But then also I love that you know, you're a farm girl, you journal, that's what you did, that's where you live. But yet, God saw you where you're at and wanted to use your story to encourage people and help minister to people all over the world and that you have. And I think that, you know, I got to interview,

today's been a good day of interviews. I got to interview Beth Moore earlier, and her story was, today's been a great day. She, a great day. A really great day. Beth Moore and Amos K. I mean, I'm a mama, Beth, the mama, Beth, I'm brilliant. I feel very, very lucky to sit in the seat.

Oh, yeah. Very honored. Yes. But what was really cool about her story, too, is she's just a girl from Arkansas. She has a really tough story, very traumatic thing happened in her life. It took her down a really dark path,

but then she just fell in love with Jesus. It changed everything about her life, and she started teaching six great girls. And what I love about Y'all stories is that it wasn't the story that so many people think they have to chase after for God to use them. So many people think they have to live a perfect life. They have to be in the perfect position. They have to be in the perfect city and the perfect time and all this stuff.

And they put so much pressure on themselves thinking like they're going to help God, right? Their story to be used by God. But it's really kind of in a weird intention behind it. And I'll just love that God doesn't need you to position yourself in such a way for him to use you. Exactly. Like for me, I was like picking at that time, I had a shalom was just born. So I guess yes, I had all six kids.

Wow. I had all six kids. I was just blogging my experience of how gratitude was changing my life. Wow. I had no comments. So it wasn't like I was like, I was really journaling for me.

Yeah. And somebody, an author happened upon my blog that has, I didn't have social media, though I don't even know how they found, actually, and they reached out to their agent and said, Wow, you should read this woman who's writing about how gratitude changed her life. And he reached out. Actually, he sent me an email and I thought it was spam and went to delete it. And my husband said, you should check that out. If he's real or not. So I didn't have a, I didn't have comments. I wasn't trying to build a platform. I didn't have a

book proposal. And an agent found me and I wrote my first little book with all these little kids around me. And I just wrote on Saturdays because I was homeschooling the rest of the time. Wow. I'm blogging on the weekdays and homeschooling, blogging at night after kids are into that

and the fringe hours. Home schooling during the day, doing barn chores. And I wrote on Saturdays and that first book, the first book was on the New York Times for six, six weeks, and so 1.5 million copies. Like these are things you can say. I was a farmer's, like literally, I was a farmer's, like literally,

I was literally, I was literally, I was literally, I was literally, I was a farmer's, like, literally, I was literally, I was literally, literally, I was literally, I was literally, literally, I was literally, I was literally, literally, I was literally, I was literally, literally, I was literally, I was literally, literally, I was literally, I was literally, literally, I was literally, I was literally, literally, I was literally, I was literally, literally, I was literally, I was literally, literally, I was literally, I was literally, I was literally, literally, I was literally, I was literally, literally, I was literally, I was literally, I was literally, literally, I was literally, I was literally, I was literally, literally, I was literally, I was literally, I was literally, literally, I was literally, I was literally, I was literally, literally, I was literally, I was literally, I was literally, I was literally, I was literally, I was literally, I, uh, there was no marketing plan for that book. Wow.

I'm married to a farmer in Canada. Like I just, wherever you're listening right now, I love it. Like, God, I can't tell him and find you anywhere doing the thing that you're just called to do in a way that you're not trying to position or jockey yourself into anything at all. You're just like, Hey, I'm just going to, for me, it was, I'm going to tell the story for me. I didn't even have comments on the vlog. I just wanted to make a record for my kids. No, look at when you give thanks to God, God absolutely radically changes your life. Yeah. It's just faithful obedience is what it is. And I just, I love it so much because, you know what, it said on my notes that that was a 60 week Neutrised

Whistler and I was like, am I reading that right? Like I literally didn't even say it in the intro because all of this is crazy. Like, that's just God being God. But it's totally God being God. I mean, because there was no there was no marketing plan at all in any capacity. And God did something with very little loaves and fishes that are really humbling and scary. But God gets to write the story that God wants to write. And you need to go. So as much as you may not, you may want something you call sometimes

when to pull something back. You do not want it all. But it's like, actually, I've been bought with a price on the lung to Jesus in Lord. Wow. Right where I am. And it all, but it's like, like actually I've been bought with a price I belong to Jesus in Lord, right where I am. And it's not like anything's changed. Like we still live in the exact same place, doing a lot of the same things, but my husband says, you know what?

God's called you to write, and that's part of our ministry. I love that. The kids are all in. And so wherever you are, do the next faithful thing right where you are and let God do with it whatever he wants. But Jesus leaves the 99 for the one he really does.

It's good. What a word. That is so encouraging. You mentioned it earlier, but I want to draw back this idea because you talk about justice reshaping the perspective of what the promised land is. And I love this idea because I love how you say like, well, let you say it, but how you just reshape what a promised land is because I love how you say, like, well, let you say it, but just reshape what a promised land is, because I love how you talk about it. It's not necessarily a destination, you know, and so many of us think like that.

Exactly, and I think we have to work really hard not to think like that, because I'm thinking all the time is I'm trying to arrive somewhere. So the story I have to talk about in a waymaker is that the promised land we think we're trying to get to a place and ultimately the place we're not trying to get to a place we're trying to get to a person and the word Shalom means wholeness and fullness and completeness peace Shalom but peace isn't a place. You can't buy an airplane ticket to it

It's not all the day. It's not arriving at the top of some ladder somewhere. Peace is a person Yeah, so the destination that we are That we are made for is his presence Skade, so can we have it complete paradigm shift about what is in the way? The obstacle in your way, the red sea in your way, where you say like there's no way through. Can I have a paradigm shift and say what is in the way is actually making the way for me to turn towards more towards God. So can you go ahead and have the paradigm shift and say, Oh, that obstacle is actually the miracle. It's just driving me into Jesus' arms.

Can I see that his presence is my promised land? So whether I'm facing medical issues or diagnoses or all kinds of relational challenges, things that seem like this is an impossible no way through Lord. Oh, maybe what is in the way is making the way for me to turn towards you and see your presence is my greatest good in life. That requires that requires having a not requires thing. I don't just want to weigh through. I want more than that. I want a way of life that keeps me in the way himself. That means you're going to have to have a cadence of life. What does that look like? Does that look like? Do I have stillness first thing in the morning? Do that mean I'm having an

attentiveness to say, who are you Lord in my life? Does that mean Lord, how am I being cruciform in my life? How am I opening up Scripture and having a fresh revelation of you? How am I examining my own heart to see what kind of fears are driving me? Do I have a way of life that keeps me in a posture of doxology? So for me that way of life is sacred, a sacred way of life, stillness, attentiveness, cruciformity, revelation, examine doxology and so I'm packaged in way maker because I think we, how can I not think of life about a destination and arriving somewhere arriving is arriving in his presence so that my heart is attached to his heart. It's so good. Gosh, you're so wise. Everything that you say, I'm like,

I could sit on that for a little while and think about it for a lot. I am sitting in it and trying to actually because it's one thing it's one thing to know something's to rubribly. How do we go ahead and migrate those things down into our hearts and actually incarnate them and pull skin on theology and actually live it out in the world? It's good. You studied theology a lot, right?

You read a lot of theology. So, you know, I love that. It shows in the way that it comes out of you. Okay, from someone like me, I want to learn more. Like, where do you start with that? What books do you read? How do you dive into just... So good. Oh my goodness. So I just graduated this past May with my masters from Wheaton, the Evangelism and Leadership, and I said to my husband, I'm sure my first class, like I said, I will be doing this for the rest of my life.

So right now, I'm taking a class right now from near the trauma focus care, from the Allen Dier Center, but then I will move on to my undoctorate of ministry. Because I just, I think if we are, we need to be true disciples, like the word disciple means that you're a learner of Jesus. So like, how am I learning all the time more about his heart? So for me, that looks like, like, ready in the morning, what book am I listening to on audibles?

So for me, usually in the morning when I'm getting ready, audible plays, Eugene Pete actually is so funny. Shiloh came into the bathroom the other day and I didn't have Alexa playing anything else in my hair. And she said, Alexa, play the pastor by Eugene Peters. That's awesome. That's so great. I think, you have a rhythm like whether you're getting ready in the morning or whether you're for me, it's on the rowing machine, always with my airpods and listening to something.

So for me, pick it, or pick a, for a while, I read everything I could on the Trinity. I really want to understand what is it means to follow a triune God. Michael Reeves has some great books. A book I would highly recommend Dane Orland's book, Gentle and Lowly is a phenomenal book that I'm my my 17 year old daughter has read several times. Actually the other day I couldn't find my copy and I said, Chulalm, and she said, sorry, I'm reading it again. So I think going ahead and picking up, I think tracking with an author, actually Eugene Peterson says

that, have an author that's a lifetime author that you're going to be companion with throughout the course of your life. So for me Eugene has been that Henry. Now one is that for me. Timothy Keller, I try to read a Timothy Keller sermon. It used to be one today. Now it's probably three or four times a week. I'll try to do a Timothy Keller sermon. So I think pick somebody who you know is a disciple of Jesus who is following Jesus and say, I am going to pick up the words that you write and journey with you if I want to keep company with Jesus. That's so good. That's actually so helpful and I love listening to Timothy Keller servants. Every time I've listened, I'll learn so much. It's always one of those things where if I listen to it in the morning, I find myself like not able to stop telling people what I heard

later that day. I'm like, let me tell you what I'm thinking about. Like it's so good. And then also Beth actually said in the podcast today as well that I need to listen or at least read Eugene Peterson. So that's the second time I've heard that today. So hey, I'll definitely be one of the greatest, I worked with Eugene on the message when it had its 25 year update in the language. So for 18 months, I lived in the message working through it. And it was one of the, I just, I love Eugene's heart after the Lord and Eugene truly believes in upside down kingdom that we're not trying to,

that they're not platforms for Christians. They're only altars to come and die on. And Eugene really actually embodies that. That's awesome. Well, I'm definitely gonna start reading. One thing you said earlier in the podcast that I think it's gonna be really cool for a lot of people to hear because you said, you were the only Christian

in your family and you got saved. And a really interesting way I didn't hear exactly what you said and I wanna ask you about that story because there's probably a lot of people listening to this podcast that their family's not a Christian and they listen to this pie gas and they're interested in Christianity year. They, you know, start following along, reading the Bible, whatever it is, but they might be the only one. What did that look like for you until this is story? Yeah.

Yeah. So I was raised in an on Christian home. Christian home, my parents were really just reeling from the pain of my sister being killed and just my father, right about a 1000, guess my father said, like, you know, if they're really as a god, he must have been asleep at the wheel that day. Like there's just a lot of pain. Why would a good god give us a story like this? But just around the corner and down the road, there was a Dutch woman who had a great-aid education who was an immigrant to Canada. Her accent was really, really thick

and she really loved Jesus and she started a Good News Bible Club. And for 23 years, she opened her home up every Friday night to share the gospel with all the neighbor Club. And for 23 years, she opened her home up every Friday night to share the gospel with all the neighbor kids. And for the Friday night, the three years and years and years of being in the hospital, kids get off the school bus and come, she's 80 kids in her house, her garage, her basement. Even to this day, we go places and people will say, Oh, boss, I used to go there for Bible Club, and I ended up marrying her youngest son, and I got saved at a,

so there's a woman who had a great, who had a great education, who had a thick Dutch accent, but it in this place right where I am, I am going to share Jesus. Wow. And I got saved at her Good News Bible Club, and she never got to, she went home to Jesus. Wow. And I got saved at her goodness Bible club, and she never got to, she went home to Jesus.

I loved her so much. She went home to Jesus before I wrote 1000 gifts. She never saw the rest of that story at all, but the little girl that got saved in her goodness Bible club got to go ahead and keep passing on the torch of faith to a lot of other people too. So I think in the midst of, I think it matters,

the people down your street, you don't know Jesus, there are kids in dark places in your community that need to know the hope of Christ. How can you reach out and just grab coffee with somebody? How can you do something to reach out? I mean, there's all kinds of, whether it's Christmas or Thanksgiving or whatever, having a barbecue in the middle of the summer. And just to be a light in your own community, because you don't have the ripple effect that can actually have. That's so powerful. I love that. That's your story and that's how you can know Christ, because it's so true. Like so many people underestimate what ministry can do to send your living room, you know, on your couch, inviting people in. Exactly. Totally. You're, I got saved on a front porch.

And like your front porch can do profound ministry that has ripple effects all over the world. That's awesome. It's so true. And you never know who's sitting in your home. You never know who's sitting, who's going to go on and preach to many. I mean, I remember when I was at this conference

with 2,000 people, I'm sitting in the audience. I just got out of dance with the stars, had no idea what my life was doing or turning into and had a lot of questions. And I'm sitting there and I grew up in a super traditional background where a lot of different things in our church, one of the things was women didn't speak in the church. I'd never seen that for a number of thought about that. Never even thought I would do anything like that because I've never seen it And I'm sitting there and Alex Cili walks out and she was speaking that day and her message Like change my life and yeah, it was really crazy and it was the first time I responded to an alter call like went to the front And the first time I ever felt like the Lord gave me a vision of what he was gonna do in my life I didn't know what that was gonna to look like, how that was going to play

out. But that day I was just like, yes, whatever it is, God, yes. And it was years later that I started speaking and preaching. And then years later when I moved to Nashville, went to the belonging and a couple months in, I got lunch with Alex and I said, you know, you don't know this but it was your message when I was 17 that really sparked a whole new level of faith in me and it's when I said yes to God for whatever he wanted to use me and it was just so cool because I it was Alex ended up telling me

that was her first message to preach like from moving from Australia to here and She said like she had no idea because it's just a little youth conference like what impact that would have made And so you really just had to be faithful what you have and it's incredible What God does it exactly what you said say like you don't know that you don't know that you don't know like We don't know how God's gonna connect this story It's a that story to this story to that story Yeah, and this is the world of a million billion trillion ways and the only one who understands all those ways is the way Himself the way is so good. I love so much. I want to ask you about your adoption too because we talked about your sweet girl

And now you have a book with her kind of on the cover in a sense Did you say that's a little drawing. I love it so much. So tell me about the adoption because Christian and I we want to adopt one day but just really trusting God's timing in that. What was that story like for you and your husband? Yeah, I saw it. I'm packed that in a way maker. Oh, what a story. Only God writes all of our stories. He is like, he is the word because he only writes good stories and redeeming all of our stories. Youngest Shalom, she had always said, like why everybody else had one younger than them? How come I never got a younger brother or sister? Remember one morning she came in from the barn and she was crying and so it was a strong baby girl

and she said, Dad says, I can't ask anymore anymore for a baby and I gathered up her my arms and she whispered in my ear She said, but he can't stop me from praying And I At if conference I met a young woman who was surfing in China Taking care of's cardiac babies who had all kinds of cardiac issues. And I was so moved that, wow, people would adopt babies who are terminal or palliative because I know my own family. The death of my sister caused so much pain in our family. my sister caused so much pain in our family. I thought, wow, I'm still redemptive.

When you're in Christ, we're not afraid of death. In Christ, we know that so she showed me this picture of this little baby girl and she said, her name in English is Shalom. And I said, oh, the only Shalom I've ever known is our Shalom. And she said, oh, maybe my Shalom goes with your Shalom for a doublefold measure of peace. And I felt like lightning stuck me. And we had to leave. And Annie Downs was standing there and she said, are you okay? And I was trembling. And Jenny said, like, Anne, are you all right? And I said, I turned to Jenny.

And I said to Jenny Allen. And I said, I think I just saw a Jenny said, like, Anne, are you all right? And I said, I turned to Jenny and I said to Jenny Allen. And I said, I think I just saw a picture of my daughter, which was the most like audacious thing for I had no idea how challenging adoption was. And I came home and I said to my husband, I said, would you consider adopting a baby girl who's terminal? She literally has half of a heart.

And our son Malachi said, then we went to all of our children and said, how would you feel if we adopted a baby who is terminal? There is no, she will need a heart transplant, but there is no fixing or curing her heart. And Malachi, the time he was 13, 12, actually. And he said, she's terminal, he said yes. And that because I knew how painful it was to lose a sibling when I was a child. And he said, well, are we all terminally?

Well, actually, you're right. And then he said, and she would need to know about Jesus. And he said, well, so then I really don't know what the issue is at all. We're all terminally and we all know. Wow. That's so awesome. And then he was diagnosed with, he was diagnosed two days after our dossier logged into China. And we were matched with her. Two days later, Malachi was diagnosed with type one diabetes.

And our adoption agency said, oh wow, your life just completely changed. If you don't want to go ahead with this adoption, we completely understand. And Malachi said, no, no, no, no, we were supposed to go ahead with this adoption. And I know that God gave me type one diabetes so that Shaila doesn't think she's the only person in our family that has some hard, hard challenge. She'll know that I also have a hard, hard challenge that means I need to lean on Jesus too. So it's been

them. So we have now I have a type one diabetes and Shaila with literally have a heart we've been through. She's had three open heart surgeries and actually just this coming week, we go back to the big city hospital. She has almost six hour heart procedure, but Lord willing, we have... The Lord makes us know that every single day with her is a gift. Some day she will have a heart transplant in front of her, but she's faced so much medical trauma and adoption trauma that writing your brave song was really about what kind of tool can I put in your hands so that you have a soundtrack in your mind that you know that

Jesus loves me. It's powerful. It makes me strong and him I'm brave and I belong. It's so powerful. The words to that are so powerful and you're right, everybody needs to hear those words. One thing I love about your family is the names of your kids. And I think just like it's just speaking that over your kids is so powerful. And you know, we named Honey Honey for a very specific reason. Even praying about our next baby's name is for a very specific on purpose reason. And so can you share the names of your kids in the meantime? Yeah, I think so. So our first one is Caleb,

because number of Celsius Caleb had a different spirit and followed the Lord wholeheartedly. Our second son's name is Joshua, because my husband said, oh, be Caleb and Joshua, they will trust the Lord, not believe in the giants and go into the promised land. And then our daughter's name is Hope from Jeremiah for plans for you to prosper you and not to harm you to give you a future and a hope. And then our next son's name is Levi. He says,

need to assume it. Well, there's a couple of reasons. Levi was the third son. And she says that now I know that my husband will be attached to me because I had a third son. My husband says I can't use that as a reason why he touched me before I had a third son. But he's a new testament that Levi, Levi got up and followed the Lord immediately. So we named him Levi and Malachi. Actually, we named one of the elders at the church said, oh, he is the last of the prophets. Does this mean now that you will have no more souls?

No, no, no. So funny. Malikai, that he was a messenger for the Lord. And then we named our last biological child Shalom, meaning completeness and wholeness. And when we saw her name was Shalom Yushin in China, and we talked about adopting name was Shalom Yushin in China, and when we talked about adopting her, our little Shalom said, Mama,

she can be the Shalom in our family and you can give me a different name. I know. And when you said the Shalom, no, no, no, we used to Shalom. And so Shalom is probably the closest to the meaning of Shalom, but actually, before we were in the adoption journey, I went to actually Israel with Lisa Tercra,

she's on a tour of the Gospel of John, who we're going to all the places of the Gospel of John. And we only had one place that we were visiting in the Old Testament, and we went to Shiloh. No way. We're Hannah, we're Hannah prayed for this child. So I remember getting down on my face with Rebecca Lyons and I was just bawling because we didn't know if the adoption was going to happen or not.

And so I tell Shiloh all the time that her mama went to the place of Shiloh where the temple was for 360 some years. And I got down just like Hannah and for this child, I prayed and she says, and mama, I love my name, Shiloh. 60-some years and I got down just like Hannah and for this child I prayed and she says in mama I love my name shadow. Wow that is so powerful. I love it so much. I think it's so pretty too. I love it. I love it. I love that Shalom said she could change your name because I have something to really thank my mom for

Whatever I was young whenever the movie spirit came out, you know, the horse, the, do you remember that movie? It's like, we go to the theater. I was so inspired by the story of this horse that I left theater and I said, Mom, can I legally change my name to spirit? And she said, she said no. And now that I do what I do, I am so glad. Mom, do not let me change my name to spirit Mom That will be weird So I'm so happy for a guy

You got to love a good mom and no one want to speak over you, no one to name you And so I love it Well and you're amazing, you're such a good mom for all of us to learn from And I'm so thankful that we have a book now that we can speak over, read over our kids and such an articulate and beautiful way that ministers really to us as well. And so you're such an inspiration to so many. Thank you for continuing to step on platforms and share your story and just being who you are. You're just awesome and I'm grateful to know you and grateful you're on this podcast. know you and grateful you're on this podcast. Jesus is worthy. And none of us have a brave song. Apart from him, the one who laid down his life for us and gave us a new heart and a new song.

The one who says this, F and I, he sings because of us and refreshes his life, our lives with his love. I think that's a kind of song. I want to keep reminding myself over and over. They're afraid. Oh, on repeat, Sadie. Good. That's good. I do too. Well, thank you so much. I'm going to bring you all. So, uh, God go with you, Sadie. Love you to the moon and back, friend. Yay! you