WHOA That's Good Podcast - Underreact in Person, Overreact in Prayer | Sadie Robertson Huff | Emilie McCormack

Episode Date: June 22, 2026

Sadie sits down with her friend, mentor, and fellow podcast host Emilie McCormack to answer your voicemails about body image, mentorship, hearing God, and people-pleasing. When one listener opens up about struggling with an eating disorder and negative thoughts about her body, Sadie and Emilie speak into how to trust God’s truth when Scripture feels hard to believe. They also give advice on guarding your mind from social media, finding mentors who will pray and speak life over you, and learning to discern God’s voice in big decisions. This Episode is Sponsored By: https://helixsleep.com/sadie — Get 20% off sitewide and make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you! https://nutrafol.com — Get $10 off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you use promo code WHOA at checkout! https://liberty.edu/Sadie — Get your application fee WAIVED when you start your future with Liberty University today! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up everybody? Happy Monday. I hope you're having a great start to your week, but per usual, ooh, it's about to get so much better. We have such an incredible podcast lined up for you today because one, we're answering voicemails, which has been so much fun. If you don't know yet, we have a woe line. And so many of you guys have caught into the woe line and left so much encouragement. You've left just pieces of your heart, big questions, and we love hearing it all. Some of these questions, though, have been so beautiful that you would call and trust us with them. And so I just want to say thank you so much for doing that. We do not take it lightly.

We pray into them, think about them, think about you on the other side of the phone. And so thank you for doing that. Today, though, we have a special guest because this sweet friend of mine has not only been a friend to me, but she has been such a mentor to me. And I was just thinking about how much I've been impacted by the wife she is, the mom, she is, the leader she is. And I'm like, oh, I'm so thankful that everyone listened to the podcast. is going to be just led by you in the way that I have.

And so we have Emily McCormick all the way from Texas A&M. Howdy! Howdy! I'm so glad you're here. I am so glad to be here. This feels like the biggest treat in honor. I love it. It's like a no-brainer.

I was thinking when I was like, have you not been on the podcast? Because literally, but that is something I'm so grateful for because you came into my life and have been this like gym, this treasure I like it was like the most unexpected thing. I was speaking at breakaway.

Yes. Which y'all lead. And it was a weird night for me. And it was a weird night in the best way. I was like mid, you know, message. And all of a sudden in my heart, I just like forgot what I was going to say next, which has never happened to me on a stage. And I was like, I don't know what I'm going to say next.

And instead of like filling the moment with words, I kind of just remember going. like, Lord, what do you have for me to say? And then from the rest of the time on in that message, I just said things that I did not plan to say. I didn't pre-think about. It was all things that were coming out in my personal time with the Lord. And I got offstage and it would be so easy to start getting in my head and be like, what was that? Why don't I forget? What did I say? And you started speaking, you were like, what just happened up there? That's your new normal. And everything you said that night, it was like, it was so prophetic. It was so what the Lord was doing. And then you didn't just say it that night. You kept up with me. You prayed for our family.

You would check in. You would have these prophetic words that would always be so timely. And that's been years now that you've done that. Prayed for our family. You've flown in to pray over our family. I knowointed our home with oil. You've just been so steady. You lead our green rooms. LO conference and speak life into the room, I could cry the more I talk about how sweet you have been and just the most intentional friend. And so to some degree, I'm like, I can't believe you have been on the podcast, but also you've loved me very privately, and I appreciate that. And so I'm so glad, though, that you're on the podcast. Thank you. I could cry too, because I just think about that specific moment watching you speak, and it was clear, probably not to everybody, but it felt like

a pivotal moment of and then when you started speaking it was just so obvious it was like oh you're not speaking anymore this is so a moment of the holy spirit and to get to after be like that is who you are and i've gotten to see you speak now several times and you flow with such dependence on the spirit but confidence in who god's made you i'm like this humble confidence is who you are and it's just such a joy to get to cheer you on one of my favorite roles thank you friend so sweet your story's you know, kind of crazy because you're not from Texas. And to walk into Texas is wild. So tell me a little bit about your family, where you're from, how you got to where you are. Yes, wild. It's true. I sometimes say, I'm like, I just wish I was born in Texas because I love Texas so much, but I love

where I'm from. I'm from Seattle, Washington, born and raised, which is a very different culture in every way, but I love it there. My whole family's there. My husband and I met in university, and we always had such a heart for the church, ministry, whatever in any realm possible. We ended up moving to Texas for a few years leading a youth ministry. I led worship at a church in the woodlands, Texas. And then we started feeling called a church plant, which at the time felt like kind of a death sentence. It felt like, really are we going to do this? And felt drawn to Seattle.

And so we went back there, got trained in some church planting, and then we planted a church there and led that for 13 years, about 12, 13 years. Wow. And had five kids, which is the best. So wild. Four boys, one girl. They're awesome. Oh, I love that.

My oldest is 17. And just a plug for teenage years, y'all, it's so special. I love it so much. I got warned so many times, like, ooh, it's going to be rough. Yeah. But it's so fun. I love it. But yeah, so we led the church, and it was such a great season.

Honestly, never thought we would leave, thought this is where we're going to be forever. We're really truly ready to, like, die for that city. and lay our lives down. And some things started shifting in us that we couldn't explain, but by God's grace, we were united. And we just started asking mentors, friends, pastors, leaders, what do we do with this kind of stirring that we think there might be something else?

And fast forward to a crazy journey. We hear about breakaway. My husband had known about it because he's from Texas. And if you're from Texas, you probably have heard about it in the Christian world, at least. And through different interviews, we end up going, Brian preached. And what's crazy is he was supposed to play basketball at Texas A&M. That was like his dream. And on National Signing Day, they changed their mind. So like devastating. So he had the pictures,

the whole thing, like, this is my dream to go to play basketball at NM and then to go to breakaway. They changed their mind. So Sadie, this is so crazy. God just writes such a good story. Even 20 years later, when he goes to like preach for the first time for like the audition, if you will call it that. We're standing in the basketball arena where he would have played, should have played, in the tunnel where he would have run out, breakaway meets in the same arena. And he just looks at me like tears. I mean, it still is like, oh, my God.

He's like, this is the exact place that I thought I would run out. And I'm about to preach on the court that I wanted to play on. And so every Tuesday, that's what we get to do. We get to serve in that place. I mean, it's just. I never knew that. Yes. I mean, it really is.

such a reminder of like, you just do not know the threads that God is writing and how his timing works in that. I mean, redemption. That is so cool. I'm just thinking back too because I spoke up breakaway the year, a couple years before y'all came, two years maybe. And Donna Stewart, we were driving around. We were going to get some great tacos, which y'all are kind of known for. I feel like tacos, everywhere you get a taco in Texas, that's just like better than anywhere else. And so we were going to get tacos and she was like, we were praying for who the next. leaders of Breakaway are. They were talking about just that specific role and how much it matters who comes in. And then fast forward and I get to know you. And they're just, y'all are such

great leaders. And so if anyone's going to college, you find yourself at A&M. Breakaway is Tuesday nights. And it is absolutely incredible nights of worship and messages. And really cool. How long has breakaway been going a long time? Thirty-seven years. It's wild. God's just kindness on the ministry. And it is so special. We, you know, we led to church from. for 12, 13 years and would do that. I mean, it's such a gift, but getting to be with college students, there is such, it is a hard time for sure. The mental health crisis, the suicidal ideation crisis, the just gender identity.

There's so much going on that is so hard. The political climate, there's so much darkness. But the hunger and the hope, like, is so incredible to get a front row seat every Tuesday and then not just on Tuesdays, but with our leaders and with our staff, there is truly, and people hear this all the time, like, revival's happening. Something's going on with Gen Z, awakening. And as somebody who just gets to see it, I'm like, that is happening. It is happening in unprecedented ways. I do believe prayer is a thing that has been the catalyst of people just saying, I'm hunger to encounter the presence of God, and I want to be with him and know him. And there's something that he just changes things

from the inside out. And so getting to be a part of it, and you've gone, you've seen it. And we tell people all the time, come see. Like, just come see, because when you're in a room full of thousands of students, there's something in you that's like, oh, okay, God, you're moving. And it's choosing to be there. It's not like they have to be to a chapel at their school. It's not like a Christian university.

And they're choosing to come, which is like really cool. Because they're going outside of their way on a night they could be studying or partying or doing anything else. and being in the presence of the Lord, it's really powerful. Yes. So cool. I love it. I love it. Okay, I got to ask you the question we ask everyone who comes on the podcast for the first time.

But what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given? The ever part is the hardest. That's the one that sinks the question. It does sink the question. So I'm going to just go with a quote that has formed me most recently. And it's a mutual friend John Tyson, who we love and respect. And we were talking about parenting. And I'm in that season so much with teens.

teenagers also. And he said to me, underreact in person, overreact in prayer. Oh, that's good. And when he said it, I was like, because it's also, I think it's actually true in any phase of life and not just in parenting. Yeah. But if you think, I'll just use me and my family as an example, if my child is going to, let's say, confess something they did, confess a thought they're having and a feeling they're having towards me, My natural response is to want to be like, oh, what? You know? Or like, why would you, that's a big one. Why would you do that?

When I do something stupid, I don't have a good why. I was being selfish or I, you know, but the reaction will instantly tell, is this a safe moment? Like, can I bring these things to you? Is it going to crush you? Are you going to make me feel horrible? And that, if I'm honest, that's my default a lot of times. And so when he said that, it was like,

that's for me. Wow. And it has been so formative in moments that I'm actively in the moment thinking, I want to overreact. And I'm just thinking, play it cool. I want them to know like, nothing's going to rattle me. And not in the sense that I don't care. I mean, absolutely. There may be tears. There may be like, hey, that's not who you are. There may be like, hey, you know, hard moments of conversation, but that underreact in person, but you better believe my prayer. time. I'm like, Lord, meet them, reveal, expose, convict, challenge, speak identity. Like, I am, it's like waging war in prayer. Yeah. And knowing like that is truly the most impactful thing I can do. And then it just feels like I'm like laying all my ammo, all my prayers, all, everything

I have at the feet of Jesus. But then I can go peacefully and be a presence of peace, especially in parenting. But again, I think it applies to relationships, marriage. But that one liner, I'll never forget it. That's great. Oh, that's so good. I feel like we talked so much about routines, morning routines, workout routines, skincare routines, but your sleep setup might be the most important one. I'm so glad that we upgraded to a mattress from Helix sleep because if your mattress isn't

working for you, it affects everything. How quickly you fall asleep, how rested you feel, and even how your body feels when you wake up. I love that Helix makes it super personal. Christian and I took there a quick, two-minute sleep quick. and it matches with a midnight model, which has been so great, not too firm, not too soft, and amazing for side sleepers, which we both are. But we actually just got upgraded to the Helix Midnight Elite, okay?

Hello, I can really tell the difference since making the switch to Helix. We're sleeping better, getting comfortable faster, and waking up feeling super rested. And the reduced motion transfer is huge. So when you've got three little girls and a crazy little dog, somebody's going to be moving, climbing in or trying to get cozy, and our Helix makes it. It's so great for all of us to get cozy. We love this new model. We also got like the Helix bedtpper and it is so soft.

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dot com slash sadie for 20% offsite way and make sure enter our show's name after checkout so that they know we sent you there that's helix sleeve dot com slash sadie when you study the life of jesus like he did that like he would go and pray and be with the father and be you know it's like he went away and then he'd come back and then he would step into another moment you know and so i always wish that there was like you know but there couldn't have been because that was a private moment but just like something to see like what was he saying to the Lord how was he praying you know when it says like he was up all night like praying to God right before he like chose his 12 disciples like I'm like oh that's so cool like what were him and the father talking about you know I've never thought about

so cool when you I did like this study on it one time because I was thinking about like you know because when we think about like Jesus pray and we think about Jesus telling us how to pray our father heart in heaven which is beautiful but I was like when did Jesus pray and the when did Jesus pray was like super cool study. But that's really cool with that piece of advice of like, oh, wow. Yeah, that's where you overreact in the prayer time with the Lord. Then you can step in peacefully to the moment or confident in the moment, which is so true. It applies to every form of life.

I definitely feel that in the toddler stage. Yeah. Because we were talking about last night, they'll say some things and you're like, oh, what? How did that just come in a two-year-old mouth? But that's so good. Okay, so we're going to listen to voicemails. and I'm super excited that we're going to do this. You're the first person that has done a voicemail episode that's outside of family.

So thanks for doing this. But I was like, one, you thriving Q&A's, two, you lead college students. You're used to real-time people coming up to you asking you hard questions. And so I'm stoked to dive in. I can't wait. All right, Josh, hit it. Hi, Sadie. First of all, I just wanted to say that your podcast has blessed me so much in my walk with Christ.

So thank you for doing what you're doing. The question I wanted to ask you is how to not only understand, but also apply scripture to your life. For example, I'm currently struggling with an eating disorder, and with that comes a lot of food noise and negative body image thoughts. It's easy for me to read verses like 1st Peter 3, 4 or Psalm 13914 and understand them, but then it's difficult for me to look in the mirror and actually believe them. That's all. again, thank you so much for all that you do. It's great. First of all, thank you for sharing what you're walking through, because I know so many people

are going to hear that and go, same, me too, how do I, how do I do this? And so Emily said right before, she's like, can I bring my Bible? I'm like, please bring your Bible. And you're someone who does this really well, so you want to speak into it? Yeah, I thought the same thing. I can only imagine how many people are hearing that being like, oh, I'm in the same place. And I think the fact that you are honest and speaking the truth, it's confession. That's what confession is just say what is going on inside. Speak truth. The thing that came to mind,

honestly, right away was 1. Peter 5.8, the devil prowls around like a lion seeking to devour. And so I just want to, whoever this is, I just want to say, first of all, there's a real enemy who is on a mission to assault your mind, your thoughts, your eyes of how you see yourself. We know this from Genesis. The original assault after the sin was on the body, on shame, on hiding, on like the eyes have seen a different thing now. What was good is now distorted. And so from the very beginning, he was devouring and seeking to destroy.

So I just want to say to this sweet girl and everybody listening, you have a very real enemy. So sometimes shame can creep in of like, what is wrong with me? I know the Lord. And like you said, you know scriptures and the Psalms, but you're like, my head knows it, but I still am like struggling to let it penetrate the heart. And I think about that Psalm verse. And it says, I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. But then it says, I know that full well. That word, no.

It's not just a head knowledge. It's an experiential, deep knowing. And I think I know a lot of things. I've heard a lot of facts. I know a lot of things. But to actually be like, no, I know my husband adores me because I've seen it. I've experienced it. I've heard it.

He's shown me. There's a difference. And so I'm not saying that our friend here hasn't experienced that. But I think there's a active, like God, I need to know. So an encounter with the Holy Spirit over and over and over. over and over again, the like keep being kept filled, confession. And here's the thing I've learned. I am 41 years old.

And there are so many times with issues like this of like, why am I feeling this insecurity again? That I can be like, really? I'm still struggling with this. And that's where the shame comes in, which makes me want to hide. But actually being like, no, Lord, I am continually giving this to you. And the practice of that consistent repentance and saying out loud, I'm feeling, I don't like my body.

I know the scriptures, but God, I can't believe them. I don't know them. This continual practice, our mind starts to believe it and encounter with the spirit, sitting in quiet with the word of God and the power and the presence of God. God, tell me who you say I am. Where am I seeing distortion? Like asking those questions.

And then thirdly, I'd say community. Like just having those people, y'all, we cannot do this alone. You cannot do this alone. Isolation, I think, is the enemy is one of his greatest tools. And so, and do not believe the lie of like, I've already said this before. I'm just a broken record. No, you say it again. You confess it again.

You have people speak life over you again. Again, I still need that where people are like, hey, this is who you are. And so those are some things I would say. So good. So powerful. I was thinking about how, and I love how you went into the knowing because I was thinking about how so often we. try to find a scripture and apply it to our life. And it's like without really understanding the

context of who God is in that moment or what that's coming from. And I think once you, so it's not just knowing the scripture, it's knowing God. Yeah. And so it's like David knew that full well because he knew God and he knew his relationship with God. And so I think so often as like early believers and I'm not saying that this girl is but so we'll go okay I have this problem and I know God can help me with this problem so let me find the scripture that helps me with this problem and then I just need to know that scripture and then that scripture will transform me but like the Holy Spirit transforms you the time with the Lord transforms you and then you have this word of the Lord that is active light and is true the character of God but you get the fullness of

that and the understanding of that when the Holy Spirit actually like changes that within you that makes sense totally so it's like um Psalms 139 will carry more weight when you understand who God is and you have a relationship with God. And then you're like, wow, the God of the universe who made all these things good. He loves me and he knows me and he knows the thoughts in my mind. He knit me together in my mother's womb and all these things. And it's like, it's like, it's like a letter, you know, you have a relationship with the one who wrote you that letter. So it's like not just the words. It's like that he wrote me that letter. So I love him so much. much and then that transforms you.

I was thinking about do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind. I think so often, especially with eating disorder culture, it's like eating disorder and our culture, it's so easy to conform to the pattern of the world to just see different people on social media or see things about food or get in our head about whatever. And you can't, you have to be very protective of your mind and that. If you need to take time off social media, take time off social media. When you go to eat something, literally say, thank you, Lord, that you made food good for the body,

and that it's going to nourish the body you gave me, and that my body is so much more than its image. But it is to be as strong, it has strength, and it's to serve other people and love other people and carry the baby that I have or whatever it is. And I remember that process for me when I was going through eating disorder when I was a teenager. and it was a transformation of the mind. And it started with not conforming to the patterns of the world. So that was very, very helpful for me. But yeah, I would just say, like M said, know God, be in his presence.

And then when you begin to know God, the scripture will mean a lot more. And it's not just putting a Band-Aid, like a Scripture as a Band-Aid, but it's really like heart surgery, like transforming the inside of you. So I love what you said. It's so good. I was thinking that whole Romans 12 too while you were talking about exactly that. And the bummer is our world, the pattern of our world does say thin is better. Beauty is a certain, looks a certain way.

The shoulds of what your body should look like and expectations. And it's the opposite. That's why we have to be transformed in exactly what you said, the mind. And our mind spirals so fast. if we do not have a plan to stop the spiral, we will all of a sudden we're like, whoa, I believe lies about myself. But that's the truth we need from friends.

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But social media is no surprise, no joke to anybody. It can be very harmful. And I think when you're struggling with something like that, you have to be aware that your algorithm knows you. Yeah. Like it knows your, it knows you way too well. It knows you in a weird way. And so, like, you're going to be seeing things that are going to be feeding your insecurity, feeding the lies, affirming the lies that you believe.

And that's why it's like, don't conform to the pattern of the world. Don't keep looking. Don't, like, actually put the boundary up, guard your heart and go, I'm not going to look at this right now because right now it knows that about me and it's feeding it. I mean, we just went through a situation that's totally different than this struggle. But in similar light, you know, everything we went through with Kit. Well, like my algorithm started feeding me a lot of kids who were going through traumatic things, you know, and all of a sudden my whole algorithm is just like trauma. And it's like trauma and pain and hurt and loss.

And then I literally saw, you know how it'll like you see like the search engine? Sometimes it'll show like what it's thing. And it was like childhood loss. And I was like, wow, I didn't type that in. I didn't look that up. but I had shared a post and in my caption, it was what I was going through. And now all of a sudden, my whole algorithm's at. Well, I'm wondering, why am I having so much fear, so much anxiety, so much trauma, just sad?

And I'm like, because this is all I'm seeing, you know? And so it's like, and I deleted social media for a while because I was like, I'm not meant to carry the weight of the world. Like, that's the Lord's to carry. And I'm carrying the weight of my family. And the Lord's, you know, I'm constantly surrendering that to the Lord. And so here I am. I'm like trying to pray for everybody and I'm feeling so sad for everybody. And like there's a beautiful aspect to that. But that's not mine to carry. And I don't even, I can't carry all of that because I'm in my own home right now trying to like stay confident. And so I say that to say whatever is you're going through, you really do have to guard your heart, especially when it comes to social media. So if you're in like one of those hard seasons, we're like, I cannot overcome this thought. I cannot overcome this feeling. Don't be surprised when that thought and that feeling is thrown at you 100 times a day on social media.

So it might be time to step away for a second. And that was just a reminder of that in my own life. Wow. Anyways, kind of a different trail, but that's just real. Josh, you want to hit the next one? Hi, Sadie. I am just calling for advice on mentorship. Recently, you posted on your Instagram about some friends that interviewed a few years back.

Just wondering how to find a good Christian mentor. and what that looks like. Thank you. Love this question. Okay, I want to hear from you first because you're around college students all the time. And this has kind of been a hard one for me because I'm going to tell you all my real experience of mentorship and how I found it. But what do you tell people when girls are like, how do I find a mentor? Two things.

First, I always ask, do they have a church? Do they have a church community? Because the hope is for people to be in community with, I mean, the sixth. 65-year-old women at their church that have been faithfully serving. I want them to be connected to a church. And so that's often what I'll ask them first, find people that are in your community here. Because it can be so easy to think we want the person that's on the stage or the person that has, you know, the platform. And the people that formed me most were in the hidden places. Like the people who I was like, man, you're just faithful in the little things. You're faithful as a mom. You're faithful as a wife.

So try to always bring it to like real. Like let's just, what are you really looking for? That's great. But number two, and I don't remember who told me this. If they're listening, I'm sorry I didn't give you credit, but it really was impactful for me where, and so I'll tell people this, where they said to me, it's often we think of like a mentor as somebody who will have tons of knowledge or most of the knowledge all in one. And the way that I use an example for me is like, if you came to me tomorrow and you're like, hey, I want to start a business, can you help me?

I'd be like, nope, I don't got you. Not your girl. Not your girl because I've never started a business. If you asked me what was like church planting and can you walk me through how leading a staff and hardship? And I'm like, yes, let's do that. Or if you were to say, you know, financial planning, that was not my expertise. And numbers, I'm terrible with numbers. I'd be like, no.

And so I think there's a beauty and community of there's people that I go to when I'm like, spiritual warfare, I know who I'm calling. Because she has walked through it. She has said she's really an expert in that area. or parenting, my friend who has 12 kids, I'm like, you're my girl. I go to her. And so I think that's, of course, an ideal world. We don't all have 10 people that we can go for all those things. But I do think a mentor in general of just somebody that you can go to for prayer,

that honestly, I think that alone, someone who's like, Sadie, I am praying for you. I am committed to praying for you and your family, and I'm going to listen to the Lord on your behalf. I think the simplicity of that is reveling. evolutionary. And when people have come to me in seasons of life and said, will you mentor me? In this season, honestly, the answers often know. I'm discipling my five kids more than anything. And I need to leave margin for them. But in seasons, I will always say, and I said this recently, come see my

life. I'll just invite them, not everybody, but specific places or the Lord leads. And I just say, come while I'm cooking dinner, come when I'm hanging out with my kids and playing games. You can come incorporate in my life. And for me, it's been life on life that I'm able to do that. Because I think that's really impactful more than like, let's sit down for coffee for an hour and I'll try to answer all your questions. Yeah, see it. Yeah. That is so huge. That's kind of what I was posting about and people were like so interested in that. But I was thanking these moms for letting me do that because this was like eight years ago now, eight, nine years ago. And they just kind of let me in and in the chaos and in the minivan and during all the wildness of their life. And they were, you know,

pastors and worship leaders and had three kids. And I, of course, didn't know that one day I would be leading ministry and I would have three kids. And I just think about them a lot. I'm like, oh, that's how they did this. Because sometimes I'll be, you know, in conversations or even just like friends would be over. And we're trying to talk and the kids are like interrupting and it's crazy and it's chaos and there's this and that happening.

And I like think about like, I saw them do that. Like they would have conversations and we, they would stop and, you know, help the kids and then keep going. and then 10 minutes later we'd pick up on the conversation we were having and it was like we didn't miss a beat and like all that kind of stuff and at the time I was just there for it and now I'm like oh I'm in it so anyways I got to see them and I was like hey I didn't even know how much to appreciate that but thank you because that was such just so so so so good and I love everything you said because ideally yes that would be amazing to have all those people we don't always have that but one thing I think it's so important for face-to-face mentorship if you can if you can meet up with someone, if someone does know you so they can really speak into. But also social media, again, follow the right people. If there's someone who you're like, this person is really someone I am inspired about. Now, you're not going to get the full picture. That's why you need real people to bring it back to real life, but still cultivate who you want to look like as you're,

you know, following the right people. So I do think that matters. But mentorship in my life seasons change and sometimes it's different than others. Back in the day, the mental, the mental that I posted about. It originally started with prayer and confession. I had been walking through some things I had not shared with anyone and she invited me to go with her to a wedding and she was like, I have a car drive because it was a mutual person we knew and she's like, do you just want to ride with me to the wedding? I was like, sure. And her air conditioner was out that day and I always say it was the heat. I was feeling the heat in that car and she never turned on the radio. when the silence got me.

Mr. Rogers actually has this thing with silent. And he's like, when you're silent, like the kid, like they would talk more and ask more questions. And I'm like, that happened to me. It was silent and hot. And all of a sudden, she's like, you know, how are you doing? And blah, blah. And I just starts coming out.

And I'm just confessing. And then she's like, can I pray for you? And then it just led into this beautiful thing. She's like, come to church with us. They were pastors. And then she was like, hey, anything like we can do, you know, to help it just for you to have a safe space to come and to pray and to feel like no pressure from the world. And they just invited me to their home. So I would just go to their house. It was an hour and 15 minute drive for me.

And I would drive to their house and sit on their porch. And they wouldn't even go home out there. I would just sit out there and pray. So they just literally opened up their home in a time that I didn't have that safe space. I was living in a city and it was wild. And people knew who I was. And they're like, just come sit on our porch. And I would go on prayer walks in their yard. And they would just be there. And so many times at the end of those prayer watch, or at the porch time, they'd just pray for me or ask me what God was teaching me.

And it was so helpful. And it was just such a blessing. And so I think I had had God in a box for a long time. And that was my time of busting God out of that box because they were teaching me about the Holy Spirit and asking God to speak to me in dreams and stuff. I just never even thought of before. So that was like mentorship that really, really shaped me in a heavier way.

Now I have three kids. I'm not always meeting up with people and all that kind of stuff, but I have a group text and you're in it, and my mentors are in that group text. And it's my prayer group, and I'll send very real updates on, like, what I'm going through, what we're walking through. And when I send the text, I mean, prayers just start coming, words of encouragement start coming. And that was formed through relationships that I've had with people who have said the words,

I want to pray for you. and I'd be like, hey, will you be in this little group chat? And I'm going to be honest with y'all. And so most of those people, actually, I don't think any of them live where I live, you know. But y'all are so steady. And so maybe it's that for you. Maybe it's like, okay, realistically right now, I have three kids or life is crazy or busy. I'm in a stage where I don't know how much I can show up,

nor do I really think that the person who I'm asking can show up on that level because they're so busy and they are doing all their things. but I can be really honest in a text message or I can pick up the phone and call. Like start doing those things and I will say from the younger person, you're going to have to put yourself out there and ask. And from the older person,

you're going to have to be willing to lay aside that time to come. And so it takes two people willing to like go for it. And I think that's like the beauty of it because it's so intentional. Totally. And the desire is so good. To want to be mentor,

to want to learn, to gain wisdom. So whoever asks this question probably is longing for that. And so I would encourage you keep asking the Lord, Lord, would you make a way? Would you show me? Would you give me eyes to see? Maybe you're going to be there on a Sunday and be like, I don't know why I can't stop thinking about that woman in the third row.

Maybe she's the one you ask. Like he might surprise you. I often will say, Lord, would you surprise me today? Like just so I have eyes to see. But the desire is so good to be formed by people who've gone before you. That has changed your life. It's deeply changed and formed my life. In fact, I'm even reminded, I'm like, Lord, I need some more older women.

Even now, I'm like, I want to start praying that. Like, God, would you give me eyes to see women who are ahead of me that I can go to? So good. What I love is how many options Liberty offers. So whether you want the full college experience on campus or the flexibility of an online degree, there are over 700 programs to choose from. I actually took a couple online classes from Liberty and it was such a great experience. If you're curious about campus life, the best thing you can do is visit.

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All right. Next question. Hi, Sadie. My name is Dahlia. I love your podcast so much. I love you and your family. Watching you guys is just such an encouragement. I was just wondering how you both feel in tune with hearing what the Lord has for you when you're making a big decision. with your family or just in your life in general, how do you best feel like you can discern what's from the Lord and what isn't? I love you so much, and you're the best ever. Thank you for all that you do. That's so sweet. You are the best ever, Sadie. I love it. You're the best ever. Literally when she was asking that question, though, I was like, you are the best person to answer this question. And if I had this question, I would call you because I was like, if I was prepping a podcast for you to

come on, I could not let the podcast go without me asking how do you hear from the Lord on big decisions? Because I have learned a lot of that from you. But you just telling stories to me about your family. And I'm like, wow, that's how you do that? Because so many times you have spoken words over me that I was like, how did you hear that from the Lord? Because that is what I'm asking of the Lord. So you've even helped me in those big decisions. So help us with that. Okay. So I'm going to start with a practical and then I'll go into more like my own experience. So I finished seminary last year and my professor who is like a mentor, he's like a grandpa to us, just a hero of the faith. He taught us this kind of framework when we were making our decision of, are we moving across the country, leaving everything we know and

love and our family, making a massive decision that has impact not just on us, but a church community, on family, on our children. Like, truly I felt crippled by, I cannot make this decision. I do not know. And I've never heard the audible voice of God. I would love it if he would right on the wall again with his own hand. So I felt pretty crippled in how in the world am I going to make this decision? And we would call him when I'd be a hot mess being like, help us, Gary. And he gave this framework. And I have used it so many times.

And he said, as you're discerning, as you're sitting with God in big decisions, big or small, this has been helpful. And I still use this and I tell as many people as I can about it. And it's a five-fold bucket. First is prayer. you do need to sit with the Lord and you have to be silent. It is, if you and I were right now both talking at the same time, the listeners would be like, what is going on?

I cannot, I just want to hear what Sadie's saying or I want to hear what Emily's saying. It's very frustrating. You cannot hear unless you are quiet. And we have a father who says, my sheep, know my voice, which means he's speaking. He would not tell us to ask, seek an knock, if he did not want to speak to us. So I, and it says, approach the throne of grace with comfort. So in that prayer, God, I am standing on your word that you say, I know your voice, speak to me, I am listening, and then making space for quiet. That might be reading one scripture and pausing.

What do I need to know? God, I often ask that, God, what do you want me to know? What do you want me to know? And even the question is not, do you want me to know something? He's a good father. I am eager to reveal to my children all the truth, all the love, all the knowledge they need to, eager. I'm not hiding it from them. And so I think prayer is huge. You've got to really sit with the Lord. And those like kind of one-off prayers of like, God help, so good, never stop. And like intentional. And so for us in that season, I would sit in on my chair.

I would ball my eyes out. God, where are you leading us? I know you're not hiding yourself from me. I know you desire to lead us. Is this a decision you're asking us to make in faith and the clarity will come after, which often happens? In fact, most of the time, that's how it has happened for me. or Lord, are you going to make it clear

and we need to wait? Like just sitting with God in prayer. So the first one of the five is prayer. It's great. The second is scripture. And I mean, we have the words of life in this book. Now, we have to remember. I don't want to say we can't

because God is mysterious and he can do whatever he wants. But I was queen in high school of the like open it and it's like, Abraham, God told Abraham to go north or whatever it was. And I'm like, Lord, you're saying to go to that college. And he can do that.

And this letter was not written to us. It was written for us, though. So we've got to understand, okay, this is applicable to my life every day, every hour. And we've got to use discernment in when we're reading. So for me in that season, the word of God was my tether to peace. That's what I needed the word of God for. It was not telling me where we were going to move. It was saying, no matter where I live, my God is leading me.

your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path. I can guarantee that you are leading me and guiding me. So the word of God for me was not the direction. It was the anchor of peace. So prayer and scripture, the third is counsel. And what I would add to that is counsel that has nothing to gain or lose. Because that's really tricky. And they mean well.

They mean actually probably they have the most to gain or lose, maybe because they want to hold you close, or maybe because your decision impacts them deeply, or maybe they can't quite see clearly because your decision's going to really cause grief. There's just a lot of layers to that. And so in our processing and discernment, we needed people that were outside of our immediate impact that could give us counsel that they had nothing to gain or lose, and they were just able to think clearly for us in that decision. That's really wise.

And so counsel, the fourth is door. God has given us a mind. He has given us, we are human beings. We are living in embodied humans. So he opens doors and he closes doors. We see that often in scripture of places people could not go. There was not an opportunity for them to go and travel. And then other places, there was favor and doors.

And it was like, I'm going there. The gospel, I'm going to bring the gospel there. And that was really big for me in our discerning. It's like, we see a major door open here. And I think sometimes we can get, I'll just say me. I don't want to put it on you. I can get caught in this like, make it so clear. And the Lord's like, I have literally made it clear. The door is wide open. And I'm just like asking for this maybe profound sign or signal or confirmation. And I just wonder if the Lord's like, I really have made it abundantly clear. And I just don't want to live a life of striving and

forcing doors open. I've done that before and it's an icky feeling when we really force something. And so I would ask in the discerning process, what are the doors that are open to you? Could that be the Lord being like, hey, look, I've made a way? And then the last one, which can be really tricky, but I actually think it impacted me profoundly in that season and continues to is desire. And that one can get weird because we misquote Psalm 37, 4, delight yourself in the Lord, and he'll give you the desires of your heart. Well, I have not gotten every shoe I've wanted. I have not gone on every vacation I've wanted.

I'd really love to go to Singapore someday. You know, I've got a lot of desires I've not done. But when you think about that verse, delighting in the Lord, like, again, like we talked about with scripture, it's not just like delight in the Lord. He's good. I love him. No. Are you like your presence in your presence is fullness of joy.

Better as one day with you than a thousand elsewhere. God, all I want. is to make your name known, to serve and lay my life down, to make heaven crowded, to lay my life for my family so they know the gospel. Like if that is the desire of my heart, I actually believe the desires of my heart are then going to be in line with what he wants for me.

And especially if you've got counsel that can kind of call you out and be like, M, you're a little off here. Like you're, you know, that's helpful and that's good. But in our season of discerning, my husband and I were really praying to lead more together. We wanted a season of like family unity more of him and I leading together this generation, the value of marriage and family. And we wanted a slower pace in certain ways so that we could be present with our kids. Those desires are good desires. And so we were paying attention. What are we desiring? I know this sounds silly, but I was desiring son,

so bad. I grew up in gray Seattle and I love the city. And, the gray was very hard for me. And I'm like, Lord, when I'm in the sunshine, I just feel alive. And so one of the prayers was like, God, I'd really love if we're going to have to move that it would be sunny. That is not a guarantee. But I was telling him my desires. He's my good dad. And I love when my kids tell me what they dream of, what they want. Any one of those five things, though, if you only do that. And it could sound like I'm speaking heresy if I say all you should do is pray. Of course, pray, pray, pray, pray. I can get it wrong sometimes, though. I can hear hear wrong sometimes. I need counsel. I need scripture. I need the discerning voices. And that has been

a framework that I still use and that I share with others. Great. It's so helpful. I haven't heard you say it like that. And now I'm going to be going to that. It's so helpful in making a big decision like that. And I love how you have like such a real life example with y'all moving from Seattle to Texas, which is like such a huge jump for your family. When those things feel so big and I've been crippled at times by that. It's like I used to be this like confident. I felt like, okay, God, you've given it to me. Let's do it. You know, like, go for it. And I feel like now that I have kids, everything feels a lot weightier, you know? And so you're like, oh, is this right? I don't want to. And I always tell Christian, like, I don't want to have to make the decision. Like, I don't want

to have to make the decision, you know? And I feel like, we all feel that because you feel like the weight of what that decision carries, but to have all those guardrails, it's like, okay, so Lord speaking, but then also to people outside of what they can gain and all that. Like, that's so helpful. So much wisdom in there. Thank you for sure in that. Yeah, I hope it is helpful. Super helpful. And it just gives, like I said, the framework. And even for me, we were just making a decision on the kids schooling and changes and everything. And I can get right back into that of the panic. And I have to go back to one of our mentor said to Brian during our recent decision, make your decision on the best case scenario. And I can easily, I'm sure in motherhood you feel that, can often be, you go like, but the what

if's and the worst case scenario. And actually doing the brain exercise, so whoever asks this question, if you're making a decision on major change, let yourself go there of like, okay, if the best case scenario happened. That's really good. And I imagine the goodness and kindness of the Lord in the blessing of what might happen because it's real easy and natural and actually probably our first default is to think of all the worst things that can happen. But when we actually think of the best case, I think it actually is able, we're able to look at both and be like, okay, now I can make an accurate decision because I see the worst, but I can also see the possible blessings and the best. That's so good. I love that. Starting a new business can be so

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I think one thing I've been thinking about lately, and I don't have like full thoughts to this, but I'm just saying it because maybe someone can relate. It's like on open doors and closed doors, I feel like closed doors are so great because then I'm like, okay, you close the door, but it's like the open ones that sometimes can be harder because you're like, okay, is this the best, you know, what is this you God? Is this you God? Is it, you know, all those different things? Because I was just telling a friend the other day, she was having like a lot of flight anxiety. And I was telling her, I was like, God will, because she was like, what if I get on the wrong plane? And that's the plane that crashes. And I'm like, you won't. You can't. Like, not that

a plane can't crash. The plane can absolutely crash. But you can't get on the wrong plane. You're following the Lord. You're following his voice. I'm like, I have had so many trips happen to where I am fully packed for the trip. I am fully dressed for the trip. Everything is good. When I get there, it is like weird circumstances to whatever reason. I literally can't get to the destination.

I'm supposed to be out. That's happened twice. Like, twice in dramatic ways. There's been so many flight cancellations. That's happened a thousand times, of course. But there's been two times where I was supposed to get there. And there was literally no other way to get. get me to where I needed to be at that time. And it was like weird ways about it. And I was like,

that's the Lord. He closed the door. You know? But then it's like sometimes I think people think, okay, well, the flight is going, but I don't know if I'm supposed to go. And I think that's when you go, it's that open door that feels confusing because it's like, okay, well, I'm so supposed to go, but I'm not really sure. And I was thinking about how it's like, he made it abundantly clear. It's like, do you have the ticket? Are you at the airport? Are you pat? Like, maybe like, you're probably you can go. You know, he didn't shut the door. So I was just thinking about that when you're talking because I was like, I love the good closed door, but it's the open one that I overthink.

Like, am I doing this or is just the Lord? I think we have to get out of our head and trust that, like, he's with us and he's not going to let us make those wrong decisions. So I think about it, like, college example. My mom always says this. It's like, okay, if you feel like I want to, I'm in between Auburn or Alabama. Well, people probably aren't going to be in between that. You know your side.

But let's just say you are, and you're praying about it, and you have open doors for both. and you're overthinking it. I think that's where you can't overthink it and be like, oh, well, God is, what if, what if I go to Alabama and then God's like, War Eagle, you missed it? It's like, that's not going to happen. Like, go where you feel that desire.

Go where you feel that, fill that pool. Go where you feel, and you're not going to mess it up, you know, and I think our generation's so crippled by the fear of I'm going to mess this up. Yeah. So that's why I'm so thankful for your five guidelines because it's like that's so helpful. It's not all on you.

You have other people speaking into it. You're following the Lord, the best you can. And like, he is good at the end of the day. He's not sitting there going, you missed it, you messed it up. You're on the wrong plane. You're on the wrong school. It's like, no, he, like the lamp into my feet, light into my pad, like, I'm trusting you're that wherever I go. Yes. When you read the Psalms, I always like to stop and remember, like, that's David. That's a real person writing that. And him trusting God at the level he trusted God and knew God was with him. It's like, God, I want to know you like that and be confident in you like that.

be aware of your goodness like that, you know? So I love everything you said. Like, I was see about David, like being like short-footed, like a deer, like, you know, and high-speed high places, like all of that. Like, I'm just running with you, God. So that was great. That was so, so good. We have another one. Hi, Thady. I just needed some advice. I am now post-grad living in my younger 20s. I've started ever since I graduated, just started carrying. way too much about what people think about me. I feel like I make decisions based on people's opinions. I'm super strong in my faith.

I feel like God is my savior, and he is the ultimate person I should be pleasing, and it's frustrating when I seem to only care about what other people are thinking about me, and I feel like now it's affecting my personal life and just making those decisions. So thank you if you answer this, and I hope you have a great day. Bye. Sweet. So real. It's funny. I hear that. And I just always think of my own experiences of like, yes, me too. I can totally still get bound in that. And often I'll think of just the phrase, it's really hard to try to please people and please God at the same time. And I want to bless people. I want to honor people, but I cannot live bound by the desire to please them. Because I just never will. We know. it says the fear of man is a snare. It's literally a trap.

And maybe, sweet friend, you're feeling that trap of like, it's hard to make decisions. It's hard to see clear. It's hard to show up in a room free when you're thinking about other people. And I would just say, for me, I have to just confess. And I'm just going to be real honest. Even coming here, I told my husband and two friends, I was like, will you just pray that I will kill any desire to be seen, to be acknowledged, to be a well-thought. of to be remembered to be because that's my flesh my flesh your flesh the listener whoever asked that

we want to be thought well of and loved and liked and those aren't bad desires but when we live out of that it is truly like chains it is like chains because I am thinking so much about myself and about what you think of me I cannot hear the Lord's gentle whisper of like God, what do you want me to know and what do you want them to know? And so I had to confess that. Hey, can you pray for me? Because I just need to say it out loud and shed light, as we know. Just shed light on it. And it immediately takes the sting out of that, which I love that she already did that. That was you confessing on this question of like, I am struggling with people pleasing. And that might be, until you see Jesus face to face, you are continually going to be confessing

when you walk in rooms, when you go to your family, when you walk in a class, hey, I'm feeling like I want them to really like me. And I feel this desire to strive to be a certain way. But I guarantee who God has made you to be, showing up just hearing his small whisper voice and loving people well, there will be freedom there. Freedom is waiting. And then you can really show up selflessly and bless them and not need something in return. Because there's just too many times, I'm sure, whoever asked the question and you and me as well have left rooms when we're like needing approval from someone and it just feels icky. I'm like, Lord, I totally missed out. I missed out on being who you've called me to be, on possibly blessing people with what you've put in me. So true.

And receiving from what they had because I was so caught up. And I say that with no shame or condemnation, but just awareness of like, yeah, I've been there. So good. I can totally relate as everybody can. Everybody has those feelings. I will say one thing that has been interesting. in my life is that from such a young age, I had so many people's opinions about me that I was seeing and reading and hearing. And I think that that's obviously can be really hard, but also has really helped me because from a young age, I realize you just simply cannot please people. And it doesn't matter how awesome of a job you did or how good of a moment you had or how bad or whatever it was, like people are going to be critical.

Yep. And you're never going to please all the people all the time. And I have found that to be freeing, though. And I feel like at this stage, a lot of people say this to me, like, you really don't care what people think because you'll just show up and you'll wear whatever. You'll, you seem free in that. And it's not that I don't, I mean, I of course have had those moments and we have those

things rise up in our flesh and all of that. It's just that I have simply come to the understanding. that literally no matter what I do, there will be people who will hate me and who will speak negative and who are going to not like the way that I came off or whatever I said or the way that I talk or the way that I look at some, whatever it is. I've been so picked apart that I've almost just been like, if I live there, I would never show up anywhere. It would crush me, you know? And so it's like making that decision to just go, you know what? It's not about that. Lord, it's about you.

And I fear you more than I fear man. And I'm okay to step in the face in front of people and be laughed at and be ridiculed and be hated if it brings you glory, God. And if there are people who will be impacted, Lord. And so that was like a very, very hard thing to walk through at a young age. But I think it's helped me a lot at this stage. And so, again, I'm not saying that like, I figured it out or I don't have those days. Of course I do.

But I do think I've been free in it because of just having that. Like people do hate, you know, which is a brutal way to learn and a gift. Mm-hmm. I mean, it almost was like burned out of you. Oh, no, literally burned. And I think 11 or 13, 11 weeks on Dancing with the Stars, that was like the burning process because it was like, I remember week one, everyone's like, who is this girl? Like, she's awesome and she's such a light and she's crushing it and blah, blah.

And then week two, it was like, oh no, like she. has already lost her mind and Hollywood's changing her. And why would she wear that and why would she do that? And I'm not going to ever let my daughter look at that. It was like, what? Yesterday I was like a light. And now I'm like the worst influence that ever happened to people. And then the third week, it's like, she's back.

And then people are like, but last week and this. And then it's like the next week. And it was like literally people were so fickle. It was like every single week, a new opportunity to be judged by man. And it's like it was so. crazy. I think those three judges actually judging me representing like a much bigger picture of like being judged by people. And by the end of it, I was so crushed. And I was like, I don't know who I am. I don't know what I want to do. I don't know anything about anything. I just want to like go hide and never be seen again. And then that time though, it was that year of me going, God, what do you have for me? Why would you, why would you bring fame into my life? Why would you do any of this? Like I don't want this. I hate this. I don't know who I am. It seems like everybody else knows who I am, all the things. And then. And that's when the Lord began to show me, you know, the path that he was going to have for me.

It was that summer that I saw Alex Seeley preach for the first time and like self-witch is being planted. And so don't be afraid to even like just go there with the Lord in that, in that people pleasing, in whatever that one person said or those thousands of people said and like wrestle it out with God. You will never regret or wrestle with the Lord because you'll go back to that and it'll be evidence and confidence that he moved and marked you. And so when it comes to this people-pleasing thing, it's like, again, I'm human, but I go back to that wrestle. And I'm like, I wrestled that out. And, Lord, I fear you more than I fear a man. And I care about your opinion more than I care about the opinion of man. And you gave me my identity more than they shaped me and, you know, more than that impact had on the rest of my life.

Yes. I love that you ask that question, friend, because it's very relatable. I would even just close with, ask yourself in that wrestle, what am I needing from them? And, Lord, where can I find it in you? Really good. Just to be honest, like, it could straight up just be like, I need affirmation. I'm feeling like, and Lord, would you give it? He's so good.

He loves to give that. And so I would ask really brutally honest, like, what am I wanting from them? Because that reveals the gap. That reveals, like, where we're needing the Holy Spirit to fill. And God, would you fill that? And it's just as helpful, just the honesty. And sometimes you feel so stupid to say it out loud. You're like, I mean, truly, I'll feel like, I feel like I'm eight years old again.

But when you just say it out loud, I'm like, we're probably all feeling similar things. And when we expose it, the Lord's like, oh, I've got something for that. It's really good, friends. So good. Oh, this was amazing. I'm so thankful. I learned so much every single time I sit across the table from you. And thank you for doing it with a microphone today.

It was a blessing. I loved it. That was so fun.