WHOA That's Good Podcast - Wait for the Man Who Loves & Accepts You Regardless of Your Past | Sadie Robertson Huff | Mack & Meredith Brock

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

Sadie is delighted to welcome the Brocks to the podcast for the first time! Mack and Meredith Brock couldn't have had more opposite childhoods: Mack was raised in a southern, stable, and loving Christian household while Meredith grew up in an unstable environment with poverty, broken parents, and violence. Meredith tells Sadie that it wasn't until a couple invited her to live with them that she saw what a healthy, loving marriage looked like and she learned important life skills too. So when Mack began pursuing her, instead of running the other way, she found real and accepting love. But a good marriage takes work, continually asking what the other needs and how you can serve them! Then Mack and Meredith share about being foster parents, Mack's music career, and Meredith's work with Proverbs 31 ministries.  This Episode of WHOA That's Good is Sponsored By: https://hiyahealth.com/WHOA — Get 50% off your first order today! https://navage.com/whoababy — Rely on Naväge Baby this winter. Order the new Naväge Baby Aspirator and Inhaler today! https://www.12vc.com/sister — Join the 12 Verse Challenge and help fund 12 Verses of Scripture a year for people who have little to no access to Scripture! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Happy, whoa, that's good, Wednesday. I hope you're having a great week, but friends, oh man, it is about to get so much better because I have very special guests on the podcast today. I cannot wait for you to get to know them as I'm getting to know them too. This is such a treat. We have Mac and Meredith Brock on the podcast and he has a brand new album out called This Is Holy. So if you aren't streaming that right after this podcast,

I don't know what you're doing, but I'm so excited to get to know you guys. Welcome to the podcast. It's good to be here, Sadie. Hi, Sadie. So good to be here. I know, been a long time coming. We've been trying to get you guys on the podcast forever

and it's finally here and I believe it's God's perfect timing. And so can't wait to just dive into your story. But before we do any of that, I have to ask you guys the question that everybody gets asked the first time they're on this podcast. And it's kind of a heavy one.

If you're not prepared for it, it will come out of left field. But what is the best piece of advice that the two of you have ever been given? You know, what's funny is, I don't know if Maya is like your producer, she warned us about this question. She's like, Hey, just so you know, you're gonna want to come up with something. I'm realizing now as you're asking me this, that I forgot to come up with something. Oh, my God. I do my homework assignment. So I'm going to let my wife answer first while I remember what was the best piece of advice that I had. Well, honestly, this is an easy one for me because I use this little bit of advice. It's

actually two pieces of advice that I got when I was in my twenties from a gal who was much older than me. She was discipling me. From, we were going to his dad's pastor, and so we were going to his dad's church. And this lady named Cynthia Johnson, I used to meet with her and we would read scripture together. And she said, there were two things that she said to me that I cannot tell you how many times I have said to young girls since she said it to me, the first one was, if God ever breaks a promise, He can't be God anymore. And it just really helped me, give me like a lot more confidence in like holding God to His promises, you know, and saying like, wow, so, okay, God, if you ever break a promise, you can't be God anymore. So you have to keep this one. So that was a really, really good one.

And then I have a tendency to really worry about whether or not I'm walking in God's will for my life. I worry, am I making the right choices? And it was in my like mid 20s when I was meeting with her and she said this to me and I will never forget it. She said, Meredith, don't you realize that God is such a better leader than you are a follower.

And so if the desire of your heart is to follow him and that's what you're chasing after, then don't worry. Like he will lead you where you need to go. So those are the two, I gave two, I gave a bonus one. She's covering for you, Mack, she's covering for you. No, I actually do have one, and it is gonna sound hyper basic, but it really changed my life.

And I remembered that I did think about this when we talked to Maya. I just came back to me. I met with a worship leader when I was probably 19 or 20 named Lee McDermott from New Spring Church. And I didn't really know what I was doing as a worship leader. I was like a good singer, a good musician, but that was about it. So I was meeting with him saying, Hey, what do I need to do to be a better worship leader? And this is such simple advice, but he just

said, you need to read the Bible like that is your job. And as a person, you know, in the moment I was like, well, duh, yeah, like I know I'm supposed to do that, but like musically, what should I do? And he's like, no, as a worship leader, your job is to read the Bible, to be close to Jesus in those moments, to know scripture. And so that is something that, you know, 20 years later I'm still clinging to. That's so good. And honestly, I always say this on the podcast. I'm like, I wish people had to prepare a sermon to preach

because it does keep you in the word. Like, because it's my job, I'm in the word because I know I'm going to have a message and I need to preach next month. But like, if everybody had that mindset that like my job is ministry, not just because it's my job title or because I have a message I'm gonna preach,

but because like I'm supposed to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. Like everywhere I go is a place that my words could hold power in someone else's life because I could tell them words that could change their life, the hope of Jesus. And so my dad says that a lot too, because he speaks a lot and he's like, man, it keeps me accountable, you know? And so, yeah, you don't, you don't,

it's not like a bad thing to look at it like a job. It's actually a good thing. Like it's what we're all called to do. It's what Jesus called us to do. So that's so true. I had to do a devotion yesterday for a different podcast. And it's been a long time since I've had to teach in that type of setting. And so, just even going to Scripture that I hadn't visited in a while or studying a book of the Bible that I hadn't lived in in a long time was so challenging to me in that moment.

And like, okay, pressure's on a little bit, but it's forcing me in a positive way to look at Scripture in a different context. So good. It's so good. It's actually funny because did y'all just get your Spotify rap, you know, if y'all are Spotify-led? Okay, that was like, that was convicting. I looked at it and I was like, this is hilarious because June, it was like going through the month, like what you listen to this month. And then it was like June and it was all Disney theme songs because my kids, so it was like Moana and Ariel. And then it says, and then in July you took a sharp pivot towards the more spiritual things.

And I started like getting very worshipful. And in August it was worshipful because my conference is September, like the first weekend is September. So I'm like, all right, kids, it's time to get serious. Like no more shiny. Stop with this Disney stuff. no more part of your world. We need Jesus. But that's kind of funny. But it's really true when you have something that you're like, I got to be in this, like you are listening to those types of that stuff. You are reading more, which is a beautiful thing. And I love that. And even, even to piggyback off of that, I'm just, I know this isn't where you were going,

but just as for believers out there in general, like that's one of the good reasons to have other people that you're pouring into as like a discipleship or, you know, just mentorship, anything like that. Just like having people that you're pouring into from a leadership level Just having people that you're pouring into from a leadership level automatically challenges you in a different way in your own relationship with Christ. It's so true. I always think about that verse from the heart, so the mouth shall speak. So it's like on a daily basis, what are you putting in your heart that is going to come out in the conversations? Because they have the power to really be really meaningful and impactful conversations or they have the power to just be like blah, you know, you just go about life and talk about things or whatever but putting intentional things in which is why I love podcasting and hearing stories and

Meredith, I love your advice that the second piece of advice you talked about is something that a lot of our listeners have talked about struggling with so we've talked about that a lot about just that crippling It really is a crippling anxiety that I'm doing the wrong thing. What if God doesn't want me to do this and I do it? And what if I mess it up? And I know we're gonna get to that later. But before we even get too much into the weeds,

we love a good how you met relationship story on the World That's Good podcast. So how did the two of you guys meet and how long have you all been married? I'll tell the quick version. So Meredith grew up West Coast in Idaho and she moved to Alaska. Then she came to school in South Carolina. I just grew up in South Carolina. I never left. So she was in South Carolina, I was in South Carolina and I was a musician and I was playing an event at a church. She was volunteering with a friend, serving us dinner and stuff. And when I saw her, I was just like, Oh, my God, you know, just smiling

ear to ear because I was just like enamored. And yeah, we kind of connected that night and she graduated shortly after that and moved back to Alaska. I had to convince her to come back to the South because as a Southern boy, I could not deal with any sort of coldness. And so she came back to South Carolina. We got married shortly after that. We've been married for 18 years.

18 years and you guys have three kids. We have three kids. It's incredible. I can't, y'all story's so incredible. I can't wait to dive in and I totally respect that you can't be cold because it's like maybe 40 degrees outside right now, maybe 50. 40 is probably dramatic and I have a heater

behind me right now because I'm so cold. If it's like below 50, I am turning my car on 15 minutes before I get in it so it's just like, oh, Sana my car on 15 minutes before I get in it. So it's just like, oh, Sana in the car as soon as I get in. That's currently me. Okay. So you moved to Alaska and this story is pretty, wow, do you mind sharing Meredith a little bit about your backstory?

Because you guys grew up really differently. Yes, very dramatically differently. Like I said, Mac is a pastor's kid, you know, so he grew up, if there ever was like a super healthy, like picture perfect family, it might be his. My family is on the opposite extreme of that. So I did grow up in Idaho, very dysfunctional situation, lots of addiction to both drugs and alcohol, very abusive setting and lots of just poverty. From the time I was really little I moved from home to home because I got evicted like every few months from our house. And so by the time I got to be about 17 years old,

I was pretty, like in a pretty bad spot, you know? And my parents had brought us to church a little bit here and there. And so I had heard the gospel, but I didn't believe it because I saw what it did in their lives. And I was like, no, thank you. I am like not interested. If that's your solution, I see how it did in their lives. And I was like, no, thank you. I am like not interested.

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But by the time I got to my senior year in high school, I had gotten myself into a little bit of trouble. I'd worked really hard all throughout my schooling. I had decided like made up in my mind that I was going to be different than the rest of my family, you know? And so I, with zero accountability, like just worked my tail off. I think maybe I watched too much PBS Kids. Because I was- Sesame Street was like a life changer. Influence in your life. You know, the reading rainbow? Yes. Sadie, you're probably too young to know what that is. But there was this show on PBS Kids

that, oh, it talked about like, like readers are leaders. And education is what you need. And it's stuck, man. So when I was really little, I like clung onto like, I have got to get an education, because that's my only way out of this like craziness. My mom had, my mom only had an eighth grade education, never graduated from high school. My dad barely graduated from high school. So everything barely graduated from high school. So everything was just really, really hard in our life. And then you layer on addiction and drugs and alcohol and abuse and all that kind of stuff. So by the time I got to be 17 years old, I had worked my tail off to try to do really great in school. And I had, I was really

grateful that I had done really well and gotten scholarships and all kinds of stuff. But I still had this like aching hole in my heart very much that was like, man, does anybody even care that one, all of these terrible things have happened to me? And two, like I've worked my butt off to try to get out of this and this doesn't matter, you know, like it doesn't matter. So it was like January of my senior year, this gal named Emily Bankhead came up to me and asked me to go to Young Life with her. And I had, I was like, sure, whatever, you know? And so I went to Young Life with her and I had heard all the messages before, but I think I was in such a desperate spot. And so my heart was aching so much that I went home from Young Life and sat in my room and

I said, okay, God, if you're real, I'll do what you tell me to do. I'll read my Bible. I'll journal like these people tell me I'm supposed to journal, which I didn't even know what that meant. And if you're real, I want you to show me, because I'm not going to tell anybody else this is going to be between me and you. And so, my Young Life leaders had said, if you haven't read the Bible before, start in the book of John. And so, I read, I started at the beginning of the book of John and just started reading through that gospel. And over time, it was like, it's like, I mean, I had read bits and pieces of it, I'd heard bits and pieces of it growing up, but I just

saw Jesus in this new light of like, man, this is a man who loves the broken, who loves the hurting, who goes out of his way for the people who have been disenfranchised and uninvited and cast out. And I identified with that and felt like, man, he loves me. And so I, in the quiet of my room, there was never a moment where I was like, okay, God, I'm... It was more of like, show me, prove it to me. And so over a period of time, I mean, he did become the Lord of my life. My young life leaders knew the kind of trouble that I was in. And so they somehow convinced me and got me in to go work at a young life camp right after I graduated from high school called Malibu. It's up in Canada. Oh, I've been there. Yeah, it's awesome. It's amazing. It's beautiful. So I went up there thinking I was going to

be there for a month and I ended up meeting this couple named Caleb and Tracy Richardson and they were from Alaska. And by the end of that month, they said, Hey, I know this sounds crazy, but we think that the Lord is telling us that you should come spend the rest of your summer with us. And I was like, really? And I've always been a sucker for adventure. So I was like, Alaska, what are we going to do? And they were like, well, we're just going to go hiking and backpacking. And I was like, sold, I'll go. And that little summer turned into six years. Well, they, yeah, they became like parents to me, you know, I had because of the very dysfunctional home that I had grown up in. I didn't know how to do very basic things. I had never seen a marriage or a relationship that was healthy.

as parents would and taught me even the simplest thing like how to open a bank account and how to write a check and how to budget your money. And they let me sit and watch them when they were arguing, they didn't run away and hide. They let me see what it looked like to have a healthy disagreement. And so for six years I lived with them and it really completely transformed my life.

And so it was during that season completely transformed my life. And so it was during that season when I met Mac and I went back to Alaska thinking I would never come back to the South again because to be honest, Sadie, an Alaskan, a girl who grew up in Idaho from the conditions that I grew up in that loved Alaska was very insulting to most Southern men and women. I was just too strong. Nobody could handle it. Oh my gosh. I've learned to adapt.

I'm not quite as insulting anymore. So, yeah. Wow. What an amazing, wild story and just like so inspiring too. I want to hear a little bit about y'all's early years of marriage and stuff because I feel like a lot of people listening, you have one or the other story. And so it's so beautiful to hear

that you both have such different backgrounds, but have been married for 18 years with three kids. This is so inspiring. What was it like at the beginning of y'all's relationship? I think there was a lot of hesitancy. I think Meredith carried a lot of like, this is not going to work. We're too different. We're too like, our paths are too different. We're very, I mean, we're very different people in general. Tried to break up with me multiple

times. I just would not receive it. Almost like someone trying to, you know, give you a prophecy that you don't want to receive. You rebuke it in the name of Jesus. I just would not let her in the relationship. Yeah. And I think we have learned, you know, we've learned one, our differences, but also learn how to communicate to each other. I've learned, you know, even, I mean, still learning to this day, 18 years later, like what's the best way to serve her? What are her needs? What does that look like for her? She's the same for me.

And so I think we've just worked really hard at learning what each other needs, you know, learning how to communicate with each other in the best way that serves that other, you know, each other. And it's an ever-growing process for us. Yeah, Sadie, I would say, like Mac said, I was very hesitant at first in our relationship, because, and I can imagine some of your listeners have felt this way before And that is like I knew I was probably overly aware of the amount of baggage I brought into a relationship, you know, I knew all my issues are right at the surface

I was blissfully naive But like name it and I have it. Like obviously I have daddy issues. My dad left when I was little, you know, there's drugs and addiction and all kinds of stuff in my background, you know, who wants to marry a girl whose family's fractured? And I have to this day, I have family members in jail. Like I just knew and I, and when he says she tried to break up with me, I really did. Because I said to him, I know that this sounds like really romantic, but I promise you do not want to deal with the baggage that I have. You don't want to sign up for this. And somehow by the grace

of God, he was like, no, it's fine. We'll work through it, you know, and really stayed consistent. I don't know why that is, but I'm grateful. What I would say though, is that one of the greatest gifts that I think both of us brought into our marriage, and it was, we were unaware of we were bringing this into our marriage, is that Mac and I are both very secure individuals apart from one another. I didn't need Mack to make me feel good about myself. Because I had become so secure in my relationship with the Lord, I was able to genuinely try to walk away from the relationship because I was like, I don't need you to make me feel good. And I don't know that you are ready to deal with this.

And he was saying, no, I am willing to deal with this. I'm secure enough in my relationship with the Lord that I am willing. And so in our marriage, it has allowed for us to see the other person as a gift rather than something that meets a desperate need inside of ourselves. That's so good.

And it has allowed us, I think, to both also run really hard into what we believe God has called us to do. I run a ministry, He runs His own ministry, and I don't know that we would have been able to do that confidently and without breaking down our marriage if we weren't both very secure independently in our relationship with the Lord so that we can come together whole. Yes, that's so good. That's so important for every single relationship, I think. And that's what's so beautiful about your story is you'll have two different backgrounds, but you have the most important thing in common that you both had a secure relationship with the Lord before coming in

relationship with each other. And how cool that you had six years, you know, not just with this family, but like diving into what your relationship with the Lord was before y'all met. Like that is so beautiful and it's so cool. Cause at first, at like first glance, you hear the stories, you're like, how did it work? How do you have 18 years of marriage after like so many differences in different states and all the different things.

And then you hear about your relationship with the Lord. And it's like, that's how it worked, you know, because the gospel changes everything. And you mentioned you guys lead huge ministries. I mean, Mack, with all of your music and all of the different things that you've done. And then Meredith, we're gonna get into what you lead because I don't know that all of our listeners know that. Can y'all talk a little bit about the individual ministries that you guys are leading currently right now?

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Yeah. And I think just even to piggyback off of what Meredith is saying is just even in that aspect, we both have been supportive of each other's callings, and they don't, they're not always like together in the sense of like, we do very different things. And there's so much of our life that is doing ministry separately. But we're both hyper supportive and figure out ways to make it work. And so for me, it's been, you know, worship ministry and music and writing songs and was on staff at Elevation Church for a long time and a part of that ministry for a long time.

And then since then, it's just been continuing to write, release music, go out, travel a lot and lead worship a lot. And so my schedule is very chaotic and crazy and it's taken a lot to like navigate even as our family is growing and just the different seasons of our family, what that looks like. And Meredith has a whole different ministry.

I don't know if you want to speak to that. I would, y'all can share what y'all do, but then we have to backtrack and how y'all even got started doing it because that story is crazy. But before we even get to the backtrack, I do want people to know because again, y'all story is so intriguing and so interesting. And you mentioned Maya interviewing you and I just have to say this for the listeners. So we've actually never done a pre interview with anyone coming on the show. That was something that we just wanted to get started.

And Maya, who is on staff at LO, got to interview them and she told me their story. And it's just so beautiful how many lessons you can pull out in the two of your story that I'm like, gosh, in our conversation, in our time together for our listeners, it's like, how do you get out the most of it? So I know you're like, you can share if you want. So I'm like, not to put you on the spot and tell everything that you do, because I know that can feel awkward, but I want people to know just the gravity of what y'all do,

because it didn't start there, you know? And we'll get to that and the story behind it. But it is really impressive, actually, what y'all are currently doing. Well, thanks, Sadie. Yeah, my role right now, but I've only been the current role that I'm in, is CEO of Proverbs 31 Ministries. It's an online, primarily online, we do have a conference that we host every year, but online ministry that really

is there to help people know and understand the Bible more deeply, you know? And so we reach about 6 million people a day on our, between all of our different channels. We have a couple podcasts. Most people will know that Lisa Terkerst is the president and chief visionary officer with me. So we kind of run alongside each other and she's the face and communicator of the ministry. And I'm kind of the communicator of the ministry. And I'm kind of the backbone

infrastructure of the ministry. And so we've been doing ministry together for 13 years now going on 14, which is pretty amazing. And I love it. It's incredible. It's so cool. I'm like, that's what we have to say it because so many people who are listening to this, probably listening to Power Center, probably read y'all stuff are like, what the heck? That's so cool. And so we couldn't wait till the very end to say that. That's amazing. That's amazing. Okay, so we're gonna get into this Mac.

Whenever you mentioned that you were to Elevation, which obviously like a lot of people know Elevation, people probably know you from Elevation, you had a very like secure role as a worship leader at Elevation and then decide to make a move. That is scary. Like that's scary for anyone to do is to make a move. Even if you feel God calling you to it when you have something so secure

and so stable. So take us back to that and how you were able to step out of something that felt so sure and do what you're doing now. Yeah, so I was on staff with Elevation Church and Elevation Worship for a decade, and we really liked our life. We really liked what we were doing. And I think that whatever it is that me and Meredith are doing, I'll just say this as like a blanket statement,

I feel like whatever season we're in, we're constantly like, I could do this for the rest of my life, or if the Lord needed me to just stop today, I would be okay with that. And that's not like, I don't know, that's just a little bit the way that we've always been. We are fully rooted. We like being rooted and planted in places and like dig deep our roots. places and like dig deep our roots. But we always want to have a spirit of, but whatever's next or whatever the Lord wants, like we want to be willing to do that. We don't want to hold on so tight. And so for me and for us, when we started feeling like just that inkling from the Lord, hey, I think your season is at elevation is done. I think that your assignment there is done. It's time for you to move on.

My initial response was, okay, I'm going to hold on even tighter, because I like it here. And I like doing what I'm doing. And thankfully, the Lord allowed me and Meredith to process in a way to where he didn't have to pry our hands open and take it away from us. process in a way to where he didn't have to pry our hands open and take it away from us, but he allowed us to process, to wrestle with them, to walk with them, to talk with them, and then to ultimately say like, okay, we trust you, God, we have peace that this is what you've called us to do. And so we are stepping out and stepping into a new season of life. And we didn't know what that looked like. We didn't know, are we staying in Charlotte? Am I going to work at another church? Am I going to still, you know, write songs or- At one point he, he was like, I think I'm going to go back to school and become a computer

programmer. Yeah. Yeah. Do I go back to school? Like- And I was like, really? That's what you want? Totally open. Yeah. I feel my passion of sitting behind a computer all day long. And yeah, we really didn't know, but the Lord has been kind and gracious to us throughout, you know, I mean, it's been several years since I stepped away from elevation and I'm still able to lead worship and I'm still able to write songs and release music and do what I think the Lord has

called me to do and what I'm assigned to do in a way that is still exciting and fresh to us. Yeah. And so it's been awesome. That's so good. That piece of advice you gave, just throw it in there so casually and like, wait, that's really good. Everyone needs to focus on that. When you said, we, you know, whatever we're in and doing right now, we look at it as if we could do it forever. But also like if the Lord called us to step away now, we would.

I think that's huge. We were actually just having a conversation the other day about identity. And we were talking about how so often, you know, your identity can get wrapped up in the things that you do. And it led us to like so many other, because it got started on a podcast. Then later, me and my husband started talking about it. And then we did another podcast talking about it,

because now we're like, OK, how much has what we've done shaped our identity in the good ways and then sometimes the bad ways and whatnot? And he was really secure in his identity without the things that he did. He doesn't struggle things that he did. He doesn't struggle with that as much. And I'm like, it's so funny

because I talk about identity all the time. I preach about identity all the time. And probably every message that I share, somewhere in it, identity comes up. And I started thinking how I think, I talk about so much, preach about so much because that is something I do tend to wrestle with. And when we started talking about it,

I was like, okay, if this was taken away, would it shake me? No, if that was. But then I started talking about speaking or podcasting and whatnot. And I was like, actually, I think sometimes I do put too much in my identity in that because if it was taken away, it would be hard for me.

But I think the reason I've got to like that is because I'm not holding it loose enough. You know, it's like, I think it's when you don't hold it loose enough, when you put it as like, I'm gonna do this forever. And it's like, no, you might not. And that's okay, because you are so much more as a person than this one task you've been assigned

or you're able to step into. And so it's just so interesting you say that right now, because I'm like, that's a really good piece of advice for everybody, but particularly me right now, because we've been talking about this and discussing this. And I'm like, how do you shield yourself from getting too far, you know, immersed in something where it's like, well, it's a good thing, it's speaking for Jesus. It's a good thing, it's podcasting conversations for the Lord. But at the end of the day, it's not all that I am.

And seasons come and seasons go. I mean, COVID taught all of us that anything at any given moment can just be shut down and you're not gonna do it anymore. And so I love that. Have y'all always been like that and that open-handed or was there like a switch for y'all? Yeah, as I'm saying that like make no mistake

We're not experts at it even you talking about identity like I am right there with you You know and for a long time even after I left like I was like shoot you know I used to be the worship leader at elevation worship or Associated with a certain song or something like that. Like if I take that away, who am I? You know? And then even now still, like I will still wrestle with like, well, outside of like worship leader Mac, who am I? You know? Or songwriter Mac, who am I? And it is, it's still like a constant like wrestling match. And I think part of that is like, it's weird because, and you said this, it's almost makes it even like weirder

when you're doing something that is noble or that is like ministry related and is something like for positive purposes, even like Proverbs 31. But I think Jesus just like constantly wants to remind us, like, that's not why I love you. I am not impressed with the things that you can do for me. I love you because of who you are.

I love you because you are my child. And I've had to wrestle with that my entire life. And it's a, I don't know, it's a growing process for me. life. And it's a, I don't know, it's a growing process for me. Friends, there are people who love and celebrate Jesus all over the world, but there are so many people who don't have access to Scripture in their own heart language. And I think that we can do something about that. So I want to invite you to join the Scripture Translation Movement with Illuminations 12 Verse Challenge. There are thousands of people groups adding up to a billion people who don't have access to scripture in their own heart language and there are more than 1,000 people groups with no scripture at all. So I'm partnering with Illuminations and

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Together, my amazing Will That's Good fam has already funded the equivalent of the four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John for one group. Y'all, that's so amazing. Now, let's pass that blessing on to another group too. I'm so proud of this that we are getting to do this together. Y'all, I've personally seen this work on the ground. I went to a very remote place in Guatemala to see this Unreached People group, get to have scripture. It was one of the most incredible experiences I got to be a part of. So I know this is legit. I've seen it with my own eyes. So we would love to have you a part of this movement as well. How you do that? Well, pull out

your phone right now, click the link in the show notes, or go to 12vc.com slash sister and commit to the 12 verse challenge. That's the number one, the number two, vc.com slash sister. Y'all, we are all in this until everyone everywhere has access to God's Word. Visit the number 12 vc.com slash sister to join the movement today. I feel like if you were to look back at kind of the timeline of our relationship and our marriage, I feel like over and over and over again, and I would say even just personally separate from one another, God consistently brings opportunities for us to surrender ourselves to Him. And with each moment, each time we've been willing to say, okay, Lord, like, this doesn't really make any sense, but we'll give it to you, you know, and we'll trust you to follow us through, like, meet

us on the other side. it has been such a consistent theme in our individual relationships and in our relationship together. Like I think about when we first got married, we connected with Steven Furtick and he had actually had plans, we had had plans to move to LA because he had gotten an internship with New Line Cinemas. We thought

that's the direction our life was going to go. And we got this other opportunity to come and move to Charlotte and be a part of this church. And I think we were like, okay, Lord, like we'll give it a try and we'll do it. We'll step out in faith and say yes and let go of this other thing. And when we got here, we realized, holy cow, this was like such a bigger story that God had to write for us that we had no idea, but we were willing to say, okay, let go of our plans to go to LA. And when I look back at our story of even how I got connected

with Proverbs 31, so I was working at Elevation as well for the first, I think I was on staff for either four or five years, I can't really remember, but it was right from the beginning. And we decided to have, we decided to start our family. And I had not told anybody that I was pregnant. I was just barely pregnant. And this lady named Lisa Turchurst, at the time, I had no idea who she was. I was working at the church as kind of running production and AVL and kind of the creative department and all that kind of stuff. Had been doing it for quite some time, but part of my job was to oversee this particular facility rentals when people stepped in.

So Lisa had decided to rent this facility for six Mondays in a row to do this webcast. And this is like back in 2010, y'all. So this was a long time ago. And nobody ever did webcast then. That was like not a thing. So she shows up, and I sit down with her, and I have to go through all the pre-production for everything. And I start asking her, do you have a run of show?

Are you going to have lower thirds? All that kind of stuff. And she just looked at me like a deer in headlights and was like, I don't know what any of that is. And I was, I literally was like, Oh man, this lady needs help. Oh my God. So I literally was like, I was like, okay, I'm going to help this lady with no, not knowing at all where this would lead.

I had no idea who she was, like literally did not know. So over the six week period of time, I like watched her in action. I watched her get up there and preach for six Mondays in a row. And I got to know her because, and I learned, oh my gosh, she has five kids and she's like doing ministry at a really high level in the way that I want to do it. And here I am with my first, I'm pregnant with my first child and only Mac knows, you know? And so at the end of the six weeks, she was like, Hey, thank you for helping me.

Will you, I'd love to take you to lunch, you know? And so I went to lunch with her and I, in my mind, I was like, I've got this lady needs to be my friend because she's like a little bit ahead of me and I need to learn from her. And I, in my mind, I was like, I've got this lady needs to be my friend because she's like a little bit ahead of me and I need to learn from her. And so at the end of the lunch, she was, I told her, I said, Hey, I haven't really told anybody, but I'm actually pregnant with our first child. And she was like, Oh my gosh, that's so great. And then there was like this long pause and she goes, what are you going to do when you have that baby? And I was like, what do you mean? And she was like,

would you ever want to come work for me? And so it was such a step of faith for me to leave my position at elevation and go, okay, I'll go work for this lady. And here we are almost 14 years later, not really, I didn't know at all what God had in store for, it was just a little step of obedience and a little step of faith that led to something so beautiful and so fruitful and great. And I just want to make note of one of the things that I love about Meredith's career is, I don't know if you even caught that she said when she was at the church, she was doing AVL. Yeah. Like that's crazy. church, she was doing AVL.

Like that's crazy. Like that's crazy. And she has a master's degree in counseling. And then like at 30, she decides to totally change the path of her career in a brand new space that she never didn't know anything about, but felt like, okay, this is what I think that we're supposed to be doing.

I'm going to completely redirect the course of like, what I'm doing as my job. And I always use that like, as an encouragement to people that are going through transition or stressed about transition is like, it's so fascinating to me that just even like at 30, like that's kind of late in life to make a total career change. And just to see what the Lord has done in the last 14 years is incredible. I mean, that's truly like, I just want to encourage the listeners like obedience

leads to fruitfulness, obedience leads to what's the word I'm looking for, like that true satisfaction. Right. Confidence. Yeah. Yeah, confidence and peace. The Lord knows you better than you even know yourself. Right.

He knows what you need. Like, y'all, I never would have in a million years, not in a million years, would have said, man, I just wish I could be the CEO of women's ministry. That was nowhere on my radar. But the Lord knew that's what He designed me to do. And He designed me for this. And so, like I said, at the beginning of this, He is such a better leader than we are followers. So good. If we just follow him one day and then the next day and stack those days instead of trying to run so far ahead and determine this is what my life needs to look like. Just be obedient today.

Yeah, just today. That's all you need. I love one of my favorite things. There's two, two things that I knew Lisa Turcurst and I were meant for each other. The first one is I had just had our son Harvey. He was six weeks old and she was speaking at, if anybody remembers this, that big conference catalyst down in Atlanta. And you remember it, say, did you ever go to that? Okay. So it was a big, it was a big thing like back in 2010, 2011 around there. And my son was six weeks and she was like, will you come with me? And I was like, well, as long as he can come with us on the plane, like I'm just strapping

to me and we're good. Right. And so we get on the plane and of course, like they're about to take off. He has to stay strapped on and all of of a sudden he starts screaming and I realized he's had like a massive blowout. Oh yeah. It always happens on takeoff. Yeah. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, stressed out. Here's my new boss sitting next to me because I've been working for her for like two seconds at this point. I think this was the first thing I ever did for her ever. I had come back from six weeks of maternity leave and here I am on an airplane with her. And I was like, oh, Lisa, I think we have a blowout.

And she goes, it's okay, just put them on my lap really quick and you can change them. Oh my gosh. And I was like, sold. This lady, me and her can go anywhere and do anything. That is so real. That's women's ministry for you too, because at like any given moment, someone on our team's pregnant, someone just had a baby, there's another baby here, my kids are here, like you just have to go with it.

I love it. I love it. So that was the first time. The second time that I knew that I would want, I wanted to do ministry with Lisa Turkers forever is like probably the second week I worked for her. I'm a very goal driven, like tell me what we need to hit and I'm going to hit it. And I said to her, I was like, okay, so let's set some goals. What do you want to happen, you know, year one, year two, where are we trying to get? And she sat there

and she looked at me and she goes, well, I don't really have any goals. The goal is just to do what God tells us to do. And I was like, man, that's so refreshing. And so what I needed at that stage in my life to really be set free from achieving and making metric impact, the goal. And instead the goal was, I just obey God today. It's great. You know, it's been a beautiful ride. Oh, that's so good. I love it.

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So start the new year off with a resolution that you can reach. Today, well that's good listeners can take advantage of Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. Visit rosettastone.com slash today. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your New Year's offer at rosettastone.com slash today. Also having a flashback to when I had lunch with Lisa years ago and I was telling her about this kind of the struggles of like starting a ministry and not really knowing how to lead it. And she was like, you need to come and learn from our team. They're amazing. And

I'm realizing the team is you friend and I need to learn from you. I'm like, so now that I'm here after the podcast, let me make sure I have your number because you are who I need to learn from. I love it. It's so funny, too. It reminds me so much of whenever two of my teammates first started working with me, they've been with me since the very beginning, which is for us

like seven and a half years. And I remember when I was kind of pitching the vision, it was literally just that, a vision. And I remember being like, OK, guys, I know you all have much more sure jobs right now. This is very set in stone, because both of them did. And I was like, I don't know what this looks like. I don't exactly know, but I do know

this is what the Lord gave me. And this is where I'm heading towards. And I need help. I need a team. And it's just so amazing because I look back at that. And I'm laughing because I was like 20, I was like barely 20 years old. I might have been 19 when I had this conversation with them

and they both took the job and they're 10 years older than me. And I was like, I look at them, I'm like, I'm so thankful the Lord spoke louder than I did. Cause a 19 year old with a vision from Lord, but God individually, you know, spoke to both of them and nothing crazy. It wasn't audible. It wasn't like, this is the way you should. Both were unsure, but both of them just like leaned into it.

It never is. And took a step of faith and literally moved, one of them moved from California to Nashville. The other one is from Michigan. Now lives in Louisiana with me. Like, it's just crazy. And I look at their faith and I'm so inspired. And I mean, I had my own, you know, steps of faith to say yes to what God was doing. And they did too. And it's just crazy. And I look at their faith, and I'm so inspired. And I mean, I had my own steps of faith

to say yes to what God was doing. And they did too. And it's so cool. Like you said, never in a million years would we imagine we'd be doing what we're doing now, and that those little yeses would lead to this big thing that we get to be a part of. But we're so grateful.

Back in the day, we were obedient to what the Lord put on our heart before. Like, we saw the full picture. And I think we talk about this verse a lot, but your word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. And how so often you want the lamp to light the whole path. You want vision for the whole path. I'm going to see what's down there 14 years from now. That's never going to happen mean? It could happen very rare that God gives you the whole vision. He gives you like the next step, the next step, just soon enough to keep going.

And then you end up where you're at now and go, man, this is wild. This is beyond anything I could have ever imagined for myself, like Ephesians 3.20. Like this is just beyond. Yeah. And that's, I mean, that's been like a pruning thing for us because me and Meredith are both like we are ambitious people and we do have like dreams and goals and things that we want

that we've wanted to see accomplished in our lives and the kind of our lives. I don't know, like when I look at our life, even though we've always been that way, what are our goals? What are our big time dreams? The outcome of our life has never lined up with what we may have thought it was. We've never had the 10 year plan that came to fruition or the five year plan that came to fruition, but the Lord has exceeded everything that we could have imagined and He's exceeded everything that we thought we might accomplish in our lives or see happen in our lives.

But it's still like a pruning thing to live like that every day. It's a tough thing. It's surrender. And surrender rarely feels good. I hate it. I know. It's a giving up. It's a saying, I don't have what it takes and you, God do. And that's where it's hard. But I think we have been, I have been so grateful.

I'm not saying we've done it perfectly, but I certainly look back at our 18 years of marriage and I say, wow, thank you, Lord. That in the moments, there have been moments of surrender and obedience, and we have seen the goodness of God on the other side of that. It's been great. It's beautiful. I love it.

I love y'all story and those things. And before we end, I do want to ask on a personal note, because, you know, you all have talked so much about obedience and surrender and these big things in ministry, but I know that you guys open up your home as a place of fostering different people and even have a story of adoption. And I think that's a huge call of obedience and all of the different things. So can you share a little bit about just y'all's heart in the first place to start fostering kids and how you came to adopt your son? Yeah. I mean, we became licensed foster parents in 2020. I feel like we've been foster parents our whole lives.

That was like a pseudo foster kid, you know? And so because I lived with Kayla and Tracy for six years, I was like, from the time I became a believer, I was like, I want to do this for other people. It changed my life. And even we'd been married maybe like two or three years and married a 16 year old sister moved across the country to come live with us, finish high school here. And so like we've had like kind of a constant influx of people in and out of our house. But in 2020, we actually did it officially.

And the very first placement that we got was a little boy named Zamir. And we didn't know if he would be with us for a month or six months or however long. But we were excited to have him in our home and he's been with us for five years now. We finalized his adoption about a year ago. Yeah. And it's been an amazing journey. And for us, yeah, I think that we have both been impacted from the investment of people in our lives, leaders in our lives, parents, or what do you call step in parents

in our lives. And so to be able to do that for other people has always been a big part of our story and a part of our marriage. I would say for anybody that's like considering foster care or has like a heart for foster care, or maybe you don't at all, which I did not, I was like terrified of foster care. My wife wanted to do it and I was like, that sounds too inconvenient and not very comfortable. And I like convenience and I like comfort so much. But I committed to taking the class and I committed to reading the books and I committed to reading the books that I was supposed to read. And through that process really changed my heart

for foster care. And honestly like eased a lot of my misinformed fears of foster care. And so, yeah, through that process like changed my heart and it's been such a journey for us. That's like a blessing. It is very, very hard. I don't wanna like sugar coat it.

Like foster care is crazy and it's difficult and it's messy and it's confusing. And there's so many like the valleys, but it is so, there's so many positive things that have come out of it. And just even, you know, our son, like, came through foster care is such a powerful thing for our family.

And then just the last thing, just like as a, maybe a plug for foster care, is there lots of different ways to do it? You don't have to, like, if you have an interest in it, there's a lot of needs that are more than just like a permanent foster, you know, long-term foster placement. Like there's a lot of like short-term care, right? We're still licensed foster parents, but we only do short-term care right now because

we know that that's what we are capable of doing at this season of life. And so it's a lot of like weekends or maybe a week here, a week there with different kids. So yeah, there's a big need. There are a lot of needs and yeah, it's awesome. It's a big way to serve. It is. It has changed the DNA of our family

in the best kind of way. And has, I feel like really pruned away. Still, still every single day. Is pruning away the selfishness. Yeah. You know, and this, when you, it is so easy, I think, in the Christian world, in the Christian bubble, to separate yourself from, and not on purpose, I think it just happens out of proximity, to separate yourself

from those who are most desperate in your own community and in most need because you go to a church that everybody looks the same and kind of comes from the same, you know, socioeconomic background and all that kind of stuff. And so to really step into the world of foster care forces you into proximity with some of the hardest, most desperate needs in your community. And then it forces you to either sink or swim. And if you're going to swim, it means you're going to, you are going to sacrifice some of your own comfort and own needs to meet the needs of a child who can't even, doesn't have the option to meet their own needs.

So it's been really pruning for us in the best kind of way. Yeah. I think that's such a beautiful testament to like, again, you said sacrifices, it never feels good, you know? Like obedience, it's hard to be obedient whenever everything currently is working out or comfortable. Like it's a different thing to follow God when you're like desperate, you're like,

I need to get out of this, God gives you a way out. It's another thing when it's like, I'm happy where I'm at, I'm comfortable where I'm at, and you're telling me to go this direction. Like that's hard because everything seems cool here. Like, you know. Gosh, I love, I love being comfortable so much. It's my favorite thing.

And the Lord just has to constantly say, nope, you got to get out of that. I know. Well, I've been talking about Jonah a lot lately, but I think like that at the core of like the problem, there's a lot of core problems with Jonah and the story, but it was like, he's like, why would I go to Nineveh? Why would I go do that?

We're cool here. And it's crazy because he's so confident to stand up in that boat and be like, I'm a believer, I fear the Lord, while he's not doing what the Lord says. And I think that that is where a lot of believers find ourselves. We're confident to say, yeah, we believe in the Lord.

We fear the Lord. But are we willing to follow Him in the places that you don't want to go? Actually. That's a word, Shady. Preach it. Girl, I've been on this kicker. It's really convicting me, first and foremost.

That's how all messages are. It's really getting me right now, because's so true, like fostering and adopting is something that's been on our family's heart for a long time. And I don't know what the timing of it will look like for our family and what our story will be, but it really confronts, before you even go through the process,

it confronts you with your own selfishness and comfortability and fears. Like, and some fears are just selfish fears. Most fears are selfish fears when it comes to those things. But I was like, I have to ask you one for our listeners, but two, because I'm learning and growing. And earlier this year we had the people, the Martins, they did this story, Possum Trot.

I don't know if you guys have seen that movie. Oh, y'all are gonna love it. You gotta go watch that movie. The movie's called Possum Trial? It's called Possum Trial. I don't even wanna tell you the story cause you just gotta go watch it. I cried the entire time. But after that, it led to my husband

having great conversations about it. But I love how you said, Mac, it wasn't on your heart, but you were open to even just having the conversation. And I think that's the place as believers, like we all have to get to the same as what you said earlier. Like I would like to do this for the rest of my life, but Lord, if you have something different, I'm willing.

I would like to be comfortable, but God, if you call me to adopt, I will, you know, like if you call my name, like back to Jonah, then I'm gonna have to go, you know? And so, man, y'all's story is so inspiring on so many levels. We could talk for so much longer, but I know we have to wrap,

but thank you for one, just being so open, sharing your story, living a life in full surrender and obedience to the Lord. I know that our listeners are gonna learn so much. I personally have been so impacted and just really inspired by the couple that y'all are. So thank you. Thanks for having us Sadie. This has been a joy.