WHOA That's Good Podcast - What Do People Need MOST In Our Love For Them? | Sadie Robertson Huff & David Platt

Episode Date: February 15, 2023

Sadie couldn't wait to speak with her guest, pastor and author David Platt, after his incredible preaching at Passion. David encourages anyone in a relationship — romantic or otherwise — how to keep learning how to love the other person well. Sadie shares how her love languages have switched since she started dating Christian and encourages us to keep asking our person how we can love them best in this moment. Plus, it IS possible to have a potentially divisive conversation with other believers as long as the spirit of the discussion is humility, openness, and hearing each other. You can still agree to disagree, and actually mean it! As David reiterates, if it's not what UNITES us (Jesus, the authority of the Bible, the Gospel), then it shouldn't be what DIVIDES us. And what would happen if all believers were truly meditating on God's Word? Forget the excuses about why you can't memorize Scripture and start today! David's newest book is "Don't Hold Back: Leaving Behind the American Gospel to Follow Jesus Fully." - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up friends, welcome back to World That's Good Wednesday. I hope everybody's having a great week. It's about to get so much better because friends we have David Platt on the podcast today with his new book that's about to come out. Don't hold back. Let me just read this subtitle because everybody's here this. Leave them behind the American gospel to follow Jesus fully. This is going to be a great conversation. I cannot wait to dive in. David thanks for being back on the podcast. It is great to be back. Say, I like I'm so thankful for

God's grace in you and Christian and I just love every time I'm around you guys, most recently I guess, a passion and I like this morning was looking back at notes from your talk on Peter and fishing with Jesus and personal life being your spiritual life. So yeah, hey we'll say to you, I have to say, I can't wait to talk about passion and we'll get to that in a second, but your target passion inspired me so much. I can't wait to talk about it,

but I have to ask you because today is the day after Valentine's Day, hence the pink flowers, the pink shirt. And so we have to at least give the people a little bit of content when it comes to Valentine's Day. You have an awesome marriage. How long have you guys been married? We've been married for 24 years. 24 years. And how many kids do you all have now? We have six kids. So we, I say six. So we have five of them. We just adopted our daughter,

Mercy over last year, but then one of our kids, we have a son overseas who we're still waiting to pick up. We were supposed to pick them up three days before, well, this is like January 2020, three days before we were supposed to leave COVID kind of shut that process down and we've been waiting for the last three years. So anyway, he's our six year old, we're waiting to get and then we got five others ranging from 16 down to one.

Well, it's incredible. Okay, so obviously we can all look up to a marriage that's lasted 24 years and six kids and all that y'all have done together. So give us a little bit of marriage advice or just relationship advice. There's people listening to this, who are single, dating, gauge, married,

but if you had to just give us something you've learned over the years of love, what would you give us? And I know I just broke that on you. I can see your eyes are like, I did not expect that, but hey, you live it. So. Well, I'm like feeling this pressure like okay Heather's

gonna listen to this like what is the one thing you said I I would say I think we love people well when we learn how to love them well and I mentioned that because over 24 years, like there are some things that have been consistent in how to love Heather, and there are some things that have changed, and I think I'm constantly, I constantly wanna learn, how can I best love her now? In this season, and not just in the season, but like in the circumstances we're walking through right now,

what does she need most? And I think that applies like generally generally and just where I was in my poverty, this morning, Mark 12, love your neighbor as yourself. But like what do people need most in our love for them? But specifically, and though, yeah, close relationships, marriage, dating, engaged, like we'll learn, don't ever stop learning each other and learning how to love each other well I love that learn how to love

I think so many times you just assume that you know But man when you take the time to intentionally listen and learn and seek those things It's so true It makes the world a differences and there you know how we all do like the leveling which tests and it's so interesting How whenever I mean Christian were dating like what I would say my love language was is actually like not the same as it is now that or you know made for three years and have a 20-month-old and one on the way it's like it's changed you know used to a policy access service is like at the bottom of the list I didn't really care

that much about access service and now I I'd be like, that is number one. Like if you like he just went and got my car fix. And I was like, that means so much. It makes me feel so love because I did not want to do that. And so it's true that to learn to love and the season that you're in really goes so much further than just doing the, you know, ordinary things that anybody can do But when someone does something because they know your heart it goes such a long way so great advice I know that came out of nowhere you had it Well, I would just add like we we try to do periodic date nights regular date nights

but periodically I do like intentionally even ask that, baby, how can I love you better? And yeah, I think it's, well, I'm just so thankful for all the ways she loves me well. And I just wanna, yeah, I wanna faithfully love her well. So yeah. That's so good. Hope that's helpful.

No, that's so helpful. And I think too, now that I'm just thinking about this, it's also cool to let that person in on what You know just giving clarity for what would help you know what how you could love me better because I think sometimes as Women especially you can be like I wish that they would do this or I wish to do that and then you get disappointed when they don't and I love that quote It's like expectation without communication results and frustration. And I'm like, that is so true. And so I try not to ever like put these expectations on Christian, then I'm not communicating with him because that's not fair to expect

to do something that he doesn't even know. So actually for Valentine's Day this year, I love Valentine's Day. I've always like love Valentine's Day, but I know like some people don't really care about Valentine's Day. It's like low on the priority list of holidays. It's pretty high for me. I love it. So I was like, I got this email from this flower shop I love about a Valentine's Day sale.

So I sent it to Christian and I was just like, hit hit. I'm basically telling you, this is exactly what you should get me for Valentine's Day. It was just so funny because then a week goes by and I just said, you know, I just wouldn't let you know because I knew he hadn't gotten it. I was like, it's really, you know, I did get you something for Valentine's Day. I was like, you don't have to get me something, but I don't want you to be sad. Whatever I got you something, you didn't get me something. And he goes, oh, I was thinking I would get you something didn't get me something and he goes oh

I was I was thinking I would get you something when we go to California and said you totally just thought about that He goes yeah, I totally just thought about that and it's after Valentine's day that we go to California But it was just funny because it was a good thing that I said that because then there's like no disappointment like letting them in On kind of how you do want to be loved and so they're just making them guess. And so man, I'm glad you brought that out. We just had that funny situation in our house. But you mentioned passing. I'm glad you're saving Christian too. Like that's what well done. I'm saving him. That's super helpful. I'm like, Hey, this is exactly the flowers I was. This is not hard. Just buy them. I'll be so happy

Like you might think I would be less happy because I asked you know, I'll be just as happy That does not change is nothing for me But now I gotta talk about passion because like you mentioned it was just so good and honestly your message It impacted Christian nice so much. We've talked about it so much and actually so much to the point that You know you quoted for those who weren't there Romans 1 through chapter 8 not Romans 1 Verses 1 through 8 no Romans chapter 1 through chapter 8 and it was so inspiring and Since then I have started to memorize first John chapter one and

I'm moving on to chapter two now and I've never memorized like scripture like that and I'm only 10 verses in but still it's just been such a good challenge and such a good like thing to meditate on the same verse over and over and over again so when I say you impacted us, we didn't just, you know, admire it, we did admire it. We weren't all of what God did in that room, but we've really taken the action to it and it's just been pivotal for our lives.

So I want to talk to you about that. One thing that you said when you started the message is you were like, this could get so awkward. This makes me feel uncomfortable. And the reason why you said that is because you are about to ask people to worship to the sound of the word. And so before we even get to the memorization, talk to me a little bit about just the concept of the message you preached at Passion and why you felt you were led to go there. Well, I love passion have for 20 years. Like that's Heather and I actually

got engaged right after she got back from a passion conference. No way. Yeah, so she came back from passion and I asked her to marry me. So anyway, that's been a huge part of our lives and and passion zeal for the fame of Jesus and our generation and coming generations. I mean, the way it's awesome to see that playing out. I was, as I was praying through where to go with my talk, Psalm 138, too, kept kind of my mind when God says, you have exalted above all things your name and your word. And so just making that connection that passion for the name of Jesus

will mean passion for the word of Jesus. They're both exalted above all things, his name and his word. And so if we're passionate about Jesus, that will lead to passion about his word and So what does that look like in our lives? Is there a zeal? Alonging a passion of reverence for his word, you know I I'll even stick with the Valentine's Day theme with a minute for a minute here like I remember Heather when we first started dating. She was the first girl only girl ever dated and I was so I was a junior in high school

She was a senior in high school. I was just in awe that that girl was talking to me and attention to me And I remember so this is before email social media anything like so she would write me letters She went off to college. I was still in high school. She's a year older me. She would write me letters and I would just soak in Like every word like she'd write dear David and I'd be like, dear. And then she'd put like a smiley face and I'd be like, oh, why a smiley face right there? Or she'd be like, I'm praying for you and I'd be like,

I wonder how she's praying, like she's praying for just anybody or praying for like her future husband, like what is she? And so I would like devour and so yeah, that's pretty lame. That's good. No, I did the same thing. But I was obsessed in a way that, yes, like if this is the word of God, like we should be in, and we're is the Word of God like we should be and we're and we love God and we would be we should be obsessed with his word

Like why does it say this here and there and and so what does that passion look like? So it's one thing for us to yes sing and Send our hands into the air like in worship and in song sing and send our hands into the air like in worship and in song. But what if just the word of God had that effect on our hearts because we loved his words so much. And so that was kind of the. Yeah, the premise of what I was praying for in that moment that there would there would be a that the spirit of God would ignite passion for his word in a way that would really mark people. Well, it was really cool because when you laid out the foundation of the worship for the word idea and why we need to hold his word at such a level and how that used to, and you read me a Maya, it was just such a beautiful picture when they opened the word and they were just sort of weeping. And then you kind of said, you know, so I just want to see what will happen as we just read the word. And you said for a number

of reasons, this makes me feel uncomfortable. And I'm not sure how this is going to go. And I remember thinking, this could get uncomfortable. I remember thinking, this is going to be interesting. And my thought as to what might happen. I'm such a, I'm kind of a worst case scenario person. So this is totally, this is totally me. I'm thinking I bet the super charismatic people are gonna get super extra in this moment and the super conservative people

are gonna feel super awkward in this moment and we're just gonna see how this plays out. But that's not what happened. It really was like the spirit of God ignited a passion in the room for the word. And it was not about nobody was seeking attention from their worship. It was genuine worship for the word.

As if you would worship to a worship song. That was the response that was happening as you quoted the word. And I didn't expect myself to react the way that I did. I was on my knees. I could not stop crying. And I know Romans 1 through 8, not like you do, but I've read it, I've heard it, I've heard it preach. I had never seen it in such an all and wonder and love letter like I did that day like it was intended to be spoken like it was intended to be preached and it was the coolest thing ever. Your prayer was exactly what was felt in the room. It was funny though, because you said, we're gonna read Romans 1 through 8. So I pull up my Bible, starting Romans 1,

and I'm like, he is going so fast. And I look at Krishna and I said, he's going so fast. And Krishna said, he's not reading it, he's quoting it. I said, what? I looked up, I didn't even know. And then I was like, this is crazy. And then you just kept going, when was it in your life that you took the time to learn Romans one through eight? And was it something that you sought out to do? Or is it something that just kind of became from reading it as much as you did?

reading it as much as you did. No, I would say intentional like seeking to memorize scripture because of I mean, you always ask like what advice have you been given like that? It's one of the biggest most important pieces of council I've ever seen in my life is there was a guy who did something similar when I was in high school actually. He was leading musical worship. It's like a small setting, 100, 200 people. And he he puts down the guitar. He's like, I just want to encourage you guys with the word. And he quoted of chapter scripture, maybe flippians too. I can't remember exactly what chapter it was, but I just remember sitting there like, whoa, this word, the word is just flowing from the sky. And one of the guys who've had a huge influence in my life was there, kind of a mentor for

me. And he just said, David, he had tell it affected me. He said, David, if you want to know God and his power in your life and be an instrument in his hands, like hide his word in your heart like that and really challenge me. And so, yeah, after that, I started, okay, what would this look like? So I started memorizing a book I memorized was Second Timothy and just memorized this book about and it changed my relationship with God and my spiritual life in so many ways and ways that I think only happen when we went well in ways that deepen when you do that kind of memorization, because the word it does, it becomes a part of you, it transforms your mind and your heart

as it's soaking in like that, where it's literally becoming second-aid treatment. If you were to, yeah, just first-chown one, it can just flow from you and Romans eight or whatever, like it changes your prayer life, because you, I mean, we're supposed to pray according to the word. And so it fuels how we pray. It's where even memorizing like Psalms, different Psalms is really helpful because just to be able to overflow and praise with the very inspired words that God has given for his praise. And then with encouraging

others in Christ or sharing the gospel to have the word hidden in your heart in ways that just flow like I think about our church group is what we call them here in our church in Metro DC. We were meeting last night and we were actually, there were just different parts of Romans that were coming up that I was sharing to edify our group. So to have that hidden in your heart, so in your personal time with the Lord and your effect and others lives,

like to have the word flow from you. And I know different people have different capacities to memorize. And so I always want to be sensitive to that at the same time. Well, illustration I sometimes use like, sensitive to that at the same time. Well, illustration I sometimes use like, if I were to give you a thousand dollars for every verse you could memorize between now and this time tomorrow,

could you maybe learn to memorize some? I think you probably would. Anybody would. I mean, she just wept, like John 1135, there we go, a thousand dollars. I mean, so you do it. And so I guess that's the question someone 19 talks about How his word is better than thousands of gold and silver pieces? So I guess that's the question like is it worth it that much to us to

Really know God's word like this? So That's yeah, that's that's part of why That's, yeah, that's part of why amidst the uncomfortableness of that kind of moment, I wanted to lean into it because I just look around that arena and I think if there was a feasting on the word and a valuing the word and it's all these hearts and lives in this arena, it would be life changing and not just for the people in this room, but for people that are impacted by them. It's true. It was really cool how there would be moments throughout you quoting that other people knew, you know, like the majority of the room knew a couple of those versus the Romans that they would quote back with you and, you know, we are more than conquerors and crushes like everybody shots that out. And then my favorite part was when we started going Nothing can separate even guys your love consort. I was like no Confirm and no and it just was like so cool because that's what I mean

It was like one of the first times that you really realized the gravity of what the word was saying You know, I think for a lot of people because For you know someone just sitting in the room reading Maybe they're skimming very, very, very fast. You don't really stop to think about what that really means and so to hear it preached over you while you're agreeing with it is like whoa like that's what God says like that's what Paul is preaching like that is crazy And I think that's it's been cool about slowing down a reading the scripture for me because I have like struggled with, um, well, this is funny.

So that about capacity. So I was thinking like, I'm just not going to be good at that. You know, I'm just not good at scripture memorization. Like all through school went to a Christian school. We had to like, remember as a verse every week. And I was terrible at it. I was like, this is like so not big. But I really didn't pay that much attention to it, right? I wasn't intentional with it. And also, I have struggled in the past with dyslexia and I was like,

you know, just gave all the excuses as to why like that wasn't probably the thing for me. I've also excused myself with just part of just my personality is like some people will watch the same movie like over and over and over again. I'm like no I've seen it I'm done. I read a book. I read it. I loved it. It can be my favorite book ever. I probably won't ever read it again you know. And so with the Bible sometimes I had a tendency to be like oh well I don't know Romans or whatever I've read it you know. But not like going back and studying and meditating. I love that sums one, two and three, but it's like for those who meditate on the word,

we're gonna get tree, play the best tree, my living water. So I think what it's awakened in me is like, forget the excuses. Like, I want to meditate on the word. And for me to see like what meditation has already done the first month of the year, it's been amazing. I knew I needed to get out some distractions like I deleted social media, I deleted the news from my like, you know, when you swipe left and it's the news, it's the Bible now. And just those two things like meditating on the word and getting rid of distractions is so crazy. People around me have been like, you have this new joy about you. Like what in the world,

you seem so at ease, you seem to at peace. And nothing like has changed that much in my life. Besides, I've been meditating on the word. And then I got rid of distractions. And that has been like the coolest thing and I noticed a difference. Like when people tell me that I'm like, isn't it crazy?

It's like literally what's coming out of me from getting rid of distractions and meditating on the word. And so I'm just like taking what you've reached and really seen the Beauty of living by it the past month and I haven't done it perfectly. I thought I would be moving at a faster pace I've kind of moving at a slow pace, but still what it's doing in me is it's just watering the soul. It's been awesome. I love that, Sadie. That's so, it's just so encouraging on so many different levels. And really, as I'm sitting here listening to you share, just like if the effect of that in your own heart your own life

What's in you flowing from you? I just think like this should be the norm for us as followers of Jesus, right like that But we if we're not careful. Yeah, we get on we like can scroll through so much and there's so much distracting I mean we live in a world of distraction But I mean it's one of the things things I've talked about in the book is like Muslims who memorize the whole Quran, like the whole thing and not just memorizing, memorizing in Arabic when they, that may not even be their primary language. Like, there's a commitment to the word that Wow Should be there and if we believe this is the word of God. I want a treasure a treasure that's so valuable More valuable anything else in the world so yes, and it brings life. It's daily bread. Yeah Your word is life. So we're when you think about it, it's just foolishness for us not to for that not to be commonplace among us.

And for us not to be saying, okay, how can we do this together and spur one other on towards Jesus by meditating, memorizing his word? It's good. I love that. Guys, I want to ask you guys, I talked about some of the excuses that I've had in my life and I've had several others. I'm sure when it comes to not reading my word as much, you can throw out how busy you are in this and scheduling a lot kind of stuff. I'm sure like in your life, there's been times where maybe before you are who you are today that maybe you had distractions or business keep you from that or whatever it was. But do you think, and maybe I'll let you speak to that a little bit, but also I want to ask you, do you think, because of you traveling to places that people didn't have the word, and just kind of the radical lifestyle that you've been able to see across the world, do you think that's what's

giving you the perspective of the value of the word? And what would you say to people just to paint a perspective who are like, you know, I'm just too busy to read the word? Because I think we could all, like just say, we could all say that and you could maybe believe that, but I just think that that's not necessarily true no matter how busy we are. And I'm saying that from someone who said that as an excuse and then had to get honest

with myself about what the real problem was. And so can you speak to that a little bit? Yeah, well, I would definitely confess. There have been times in my life. I would even add like times in my life as a pastor where I've not been meditating on God's word. And I should say, like, I think of a long season in my life where I was, I mean, the church I pastor was growing. I was getting invited to preach in a lot of different places.

I was really busy doing a lot of, and I would do a lot of different places. I was really busy doing a lot of and I would do a lot of ministry things and church things and and even preparing so I'd study the word to prepare a sermon, but I wouldn't study the word just to know God and just to hear from Him in my own life. And so I've been there and that's's always just think of frightening. That is how busy I could be doing a lot of good things, but missing the most important thing, doing it all apart from intimacy with God in prayer and the Word. But then, yes, when I go, I mean, I will never forget the first time I was with underground house churches in East Asia.

And like, we were going to a Bible study, or they had asked me to come. I mean, they were gathering together in secret. They found out that I was teaching. I just started teaching in the seminary, actually, at that point. And so they found out I was in town and they were like, hey, will you meet with our house church leaders in this secret location? So I said, sure, I went. I was expecting to do like an hour Bible study. And eight hours later, we were still going strong.

And they're just, they're just so gonna then. And they say, can we do this again tomorrow? And I'm like, well, sure, like what time? They were like in the morning. I was like, okay, morning, but I was saying they said, no, morning to the evening. And so that led to, I was in country for about two weeks. It was two weeks eight to 12 hours a day.

Wow. Just diving into the world and so hungry, Sadie, they just, I mean, and hungry just to know, I remember the, one of the they just, I mean, and hungry just to know the about, I remember the one of the early on in that time, I was walking through Nehemiah actually showing the background history of the book and showing the importance of God's word. And so as I gave him all that background history,

they're like, we've never heard this stuff before. And you do that for us with all the books of the Old Testament. And I was like, well, that would take a lot of time. They were like, we want to do this. And so that's what we did. Like for a week and a half, we walked from Genesis to Malachi. And I just gave them background and history and understanding the way.

And they were just eating it up. I remember we finished. We had one day left. And we got there early in the morning. They were like, we want to go 12 hours. It's like, OK. And I start teaching something. I can't remember what. remember what I was like I mean we've covered her back like what else is there? Oh my God

In the back I start teaching something this guy kind of said hey, we have a problem I said what's the problem all this is translator and he said you've taught us the whole Old Testament But you've not given us the New Testament and I was was like, well, I've only got a day. He's like, will you please give us New Testament today? And that's when it connects 11 hours. Oh my gosh. From Matthew to Revelation. Like they love the Word.

They love, and they're risking their lives to know it. Wow. Wow. I mean, just imagine going to a worship, not all day like training in the Word with their leaders, just a worship service late at night. I remember the way it was like, I don't know, one, two o'clock in the morning. We get, I get in the back of this car with a hood over my head and we drive out in this village and I get out with my head down and follow these believers, like my little little flashlight, into this house and this village, it's that one little light bulb hanging in the middle

and all these believers crammed in quietly, and they're like, please, like, teach us the word for a couple hours. And so it was, it wasn't like, all right, we want a 30-minute sermon in and out, like they just, they gather at the risk of their lives. Wow. Because there's Ellis for the word and so I Look at that and then think my own life and the church culture I'm a part of and I long to

To to want the word like that to treasure the word like that and to be a part of a community that wants and treasures The word like that and to be a part of a community that wants and treasures the word like that. That's so powerful. Gosh, I love that so much. I want to talk about your book. If you guys saw our last five guests, David wrote a book called Radical. It's one of my favorite books. I recommend that to everybody. And now he has a new book out and he's an incredible author and you just have so much wisdom. That's evident to everyone who's listening. And I wanna talk about, because you talk a lot about the American gospel. And the danger of that, believing that, so can you break down what is the American gospel

versus the gospel of Jesus and why you feel like it's become such a dangerous route that we've gone down? Yeah, I, so basically, have summarized. And this is especially after pastoring in Metro DC like the last few years. Yeah, wrote radical years ago, taking back your faith in the American dream

was kind of the subtitle on that one. I'm convinced after the last few years here in Metro DC, and a lot of things that happen in the church in our country that it's never been just an American dream that's consumed our lives that it's actually an American gospel that's hijacked our hearts. Wow. And what I mean by that is that we've exchanged a biblical gospel that exalts Jesus above everything in the world for an American gospel that prostitutes Jesus for the sake of comfort and

power and politics and prosperity in our country and And I think the evidence of that has has been a lot of division in the church a lot of has been a lot of division in the church, a lot of discouragement or even disillusionment among Christians, and even many, especially in the next generation, like disengaging from the church altogether, like looking around and seeing some of the division and some of the discouragement of the church, and thinking, I thought there was more to Jesus than this. I thought there was more to the church than this. And that's, so I wrote this book to say there is so much more to Jesus

and so much more to the church than what we've seen around us in recent days. And we can experience it, not it, we can experience him. We can experience the off-filled wonder of Jesus and other worldly beauty of the church that's unlike any other community in the world. We don't need a disengaged trauma. We want to see it and be a part of it and all of its splendor. But in order to do so, I think we need to talk about some issues and some things need to be different and not in those other people, but in us.

So that's kind of the impetus for the book. I love that. I love that. We talk about just the individual and our responsibility. And I do want to talk about just, you know, for the individual, for people listening, who are like, maybe they're fed up with a church, maybe they're discouraged by the way that the church is going and they're like what can I do,

what can I do to play a part in bettering the big seat church. I'm thinking about a friend of mine who works at a coffee shop right now and she's so frustrated by the management of the coffee shop right and she's like this is so frustrating and this is just not going well and I can't I don't know what I can do and so what she wants to do is she wants to quit, right? Because she's like, I don't wanna be a part of this because I don't know how to help it because I'm just an employee. How can I do anything that matters, right?

Well, I think in the same way, a lot of people fill that with the church. It's like, this is so frustrating because of the way the church is going. And I don't wanna be a part of this. This is what it's gonna look like if I don't have an opportunity to help change. And so for the individual listening who's like, I love Jesus.

I don't like where the church is going. How do I help be a part of furthering the unity and the goodness of the big C church? Hmm. Love that question. And I love even the kind of analogy with the I love even the kind of analogy with the friend of yours and the coffee shop and because it is your as you're sharing that I'm thinking that's that's good and It's a helpful reminder especially to so anybody who's a father of Jesus you're just to be a

Reminder you're not just you're not an employee in shot like you're filled with the Holy Spirit of God. You are a vital part of the church. And so this is this is who you you've been welcomed into. I mean, this is to follow Jesus is to be a part of a community of brother a family of brothers and sisters in Christ and you are a Critical part of that like every this is first Corinthians 12 every member of the body matters then you know from the Toe to the eye like it all and so we all have Significance in that so just to I think we need to start by Not seeing ourselves is like well. I'm just kind of over here. Like, no, no, you're in the family of God.

But you're, and you're filled with the spirit of God and you have gifts for the building up of the body. Okay. So then, so what do I do? How can I do that? And that's where start to look at. Where do I have relationships? Where do I have opportunities to cultivate?

And one of the things I had talked about in the book is cultivating community on earth, like it is in heaven. Meaning, how can I, how can I, well, one, in a culture where everybody's quick to cancel and belittle and criticize and whatever, God's called us to live totally distinct from that, to be humble in our relationships with others, God's called us to live totally distinct from that to to be humble in our relationships with others to be

Eager to maintain unity to bear with be patient with and one of the things we try to do and Just on a kind of grassroots level in our church family is to say as we think about cultivating community on earth as there's an heaven, be around brothers and sisters in Christ who come from some different perspectives than you, that could be generationally. Like we have so much to learn from each other, generationally, like yes, there's value and sharing a life alongside others who are in the same age and stage of life. So yes, there's value in that, but there's also

a lot of value in across generations, across ethnicities. That's one of the things I dive into the book that I mean for, it's crazy ever since slavery. Like we have divided as the church according to the color of our skin. And that why are we still doing that? Like we should not, it's way past time to turn the tide on that. And so how do we across ethnicities, across even different perspectives, people who don't think exactly like we're so prone to isolate ourselves and kind of echo chambers where everybody's thinking and talking exactly like us, like to really cultivate community across it, Because that's the beauty.

When I think about, so this is just the church I pastor, where there's a hundred different nations represented over on in the church. That's cool. So all kinds of different people from all kinds of different backgrounds and a lot of different perspectives. And there's no other explanation for why these people, not just are sitting next to each other on a Sunday,

but they're sharing a life with each other. The only explanation for that is the cross and resurrection of Jesus and the spirit of God. That's the only explanation. Otherwise, this will make no sense. And let's pursue that kind of community. And so to the extent of which we can, where we live, to pursue that and to take initiative to do that, it's worth it. And not to, that's what I love about your question, say, because it's, we can't sit back and say, well, it's not happening here. It's not happening that way. So I'm just not going to engage. Like, no, this is who we are as followers of these are part of a family. We don't not engage with the family. So how can we engage in those kind of ways that are healthy for us, healthy for others,

and will show the beauty of the body of Christ? It's great. Gosh, I love that so much. It makes me think about, I recently had a conversation, an interesting conversation. I'm like, a lot of believers, but something got brought up where there is different kind of theological points of views in the room, right? And then the verse gets brought up, well, whatever we do, we're supposed to make peace with one another, right?

Within this version, this person's version of making peace was everybody needs to agree with this person. And it's like, well, how does that, how does that make sense? Because then that would mean that you're just saying that they have to admit that they're wrong But this is not right or wrong. This is two different really perspectives It's not changing Salvation issues just two different perspectives and theology and what you perceive and whatnot And then it was like this okay, well the Holy Spirit if he you know

Speaks to all of us, then why is this confusing? Why are they thinking this, why are they thinking this? And I think when you get in these situations, it's hard because then people get in camps. It's like, oh, well, they're this and they're this and they think that and they think this and so we can't all come together. And I love about passion, conference,

speaking of passion is like, we usually have people speak who, you know, we all love each other, but if we really all set and like talked about everything that we think about God, there probably be a few different, you know, points of views or a few different expressions of worship or a few different things like that.

I mean, the main things, the main thing, and that's all we all come together, love each other, but there might be a couple different points of views. For the people who think you think different than me, we're in different camps. Just speak to, I think the danger of just the disunity that that speaks to in the church and how as a church can we say, we might have a couple different perspectives, but that isn't mean that we need to isolate. Like how do we begin to come together even when there might be certain

things that are a little bit different. Does that make sense? Because I feel like in the young people, especially what I've seen a lot in young people, especially Christian, young people who maybe have gone to Christian schools, Christian colleges, it's like the legalism and the grouping of camps is so prevalent and it is such a turn off to me and I'm sure it is such a turn off to people who, especially who aren't Christians, I love God and that annoys me, you know. And so I think when people look at the church, it's so disunified, it is hard, but how do we begin to bring unity to those things? And unity may be coming from not necessarily agreeing, but how does unity still take place when you disagree?

Yes, this is so significant. This is actually, this is why this is like the first chapter in the book ever because. So here's what I would, I would offer like practically to help maybe think through. I talk about like three different buckets to put our beliefs in. So first bucket would be the things that unite all of us as followers of Jesus. I mean, this is the gospel, who Jesus is, who God is, how He saves us from our sin and ourselves, and then God's word, the authority of God's word. Like these are, that's what makes us followers of Jesus. Then second bucket would be things that, uh, United States in a local church, which would be different than the first bucket. I mean, we still share a first bucket, but then this is where, yeah, other followers of Jesus who believe the gospel may have different views on baptism or

how the church is structured or governed or I don't expect everybody in the church I pastor everybody in Metro Washington DC to come to the church I pastor in Metro Washington is where we do things a certain way or in a certain convictions. I love brothers and sisters in Christ who do things very differently. What you mentioned with passion yes there are some of these things in the second bucket where I know different speakers of passion would disagree on, but we are totally together on the first bucket.

And then the third bucket would be things within a local church that you agree to disagree about. And so what's really important is to keep those buckets separate. That's good. So I think one example from the last couple of years, when I've heard people say, well, you can't be a, and this is kind of the American gospel picture, you can't be a follower of Jesus, you can't be a Christian in vote for, and I heard different people's names come after that. And it's like,

okay, wait a second, we just put, you can't be a Christian. We just put who you vote for in presidential election. In the same bucket as we put, the cross of Jesus and the triune nature of God. Like, no, that's nowhere close. And it's not, it's not important, but it's not primary in this way. And so to have an understanding that we're going to have differences in these, and then to be able to love People who have different thoughts and different buckets like to love other believers in a local church who have disagreements about all kinds of things to love other people across local churches that have differences and love all kinds of followers of Jesus with all kinds of different convictions that are holding fast to the gospel and holding fast to God's word and and that's where I think

The love for each other when we disagree on those things That's where we I think we have a lot of muscles. We need to develop more in the church along those lines because we don't do that well Yeah, and and there's I would just add there is beauty To be found when we do that well. I think about conversations in our church where people passionately disagree about. I mean, we've talked about issues of justice and race and where people have some very different perspectives and disagreements. And, but we're not afraid to have those conversations because those things, where we land on those things are not what unites us.

Jesus, the gospel, the authority of God's word is what unites us together. So we're not, for some people say, well, why have those conversations that they're just gonna divide us? Well, they won't divide us if they're not what unites us. What unites us is Jesus and the gospel and God's word. And then we're free to share different convictions

on these things, hold different convictions on like third bucket issues, and learn from each other, listen to each other, humbly, be open to maybe changing our minds, maybe not, in the end holding fast to the gospel together as a family. I think that brings great glory to our Father, and I think it shows the world around us that there's something distinct going on here. Gosh, that's so good. I love how you talked about if it's not what unites us, it shouldn't be like what divides us and so I think

that's really cool because I can think of a specific topic that I used to question just again not first bug issue but it was just one of those things where I don't really understand this. And everybody would ask this question too, that was like turned off the vanity of talking about it, because they're like, oh no, no, no, no, don't talk about that because that tends to, whenever people talk about that, disunify, I guess it makes people mad, they feel frustrated or whatever, and I was like, no, I really am not here to argue a point. I'm not here to say this is my, I just want to understand what that looks like, what this means to you. And it was really frustrating because I couldn't get a genuine answer from somebody because

they were so afraid to engage in this conversation. I don't know if it was from their own defense of it or not knowing enough about it or from what they experienced, someone else's reaction to them sharing this Part of their faith and so I was like, you know, that's really sad that we can't have this conversation. Well eventually I got into the conversation with some of my really close friends and we had a couple hours worth conversation and it was so helpful and at the end of it we Didn't necessarily fully agree but it didn't matter. It didn't bring us away from each other.

Actually brought us closer to each other. At the end of the day, we both said, or all of us that were there, it was about four of us, we all said, you know what, this makes me love God more. And what was cool about that is, we all felt more love by God. We all love God more and we all felt differently about why we felt that way. And it just was a really cool conversation. I said this is a beauty of having some of those hard conversations, but you're right. I think it does have to be in the right place. You know, for me, I ended up getting the conversation I was desiring to have

with some of my best friends. And it was kind of on a whim, we were on a car ride, we had like a seven hour drive, we were listening to a sermon, which led us into the conversation. And it was just awesome. And so I love that. And I think many talked so much about in the book about inviting, you know, different people. And I love this quote.

I think this is so good. I don't want to read it. It says, what might happen if we spent less time posting, commenting, and tweeting about one another and more time actually being with one another? What might happen if we have the courage to leave our echo chambers and listen to people who believe differently than us? And I just love that call to, I guess the courage it takes

sometimes to engage in hard conversations and to listen to love to show up. And I know we keep going back to passion, but I think it shows a lot of a good example of Louis and Shelley and riding all those speakers to come knowing that they probably also have different views than those speakers that they know are coming and that takes a lot I mean as a leader I'm leading a ministry now I know whenever I speak or succumb you know It's like you think really hard because you like this is representing something that I'm putting out there And so you have to kind of let go of wanting to control everything and just letting the church be the church Like the church be human, but the bride of Christ and how beautiful that is that we

all come together as the body. You just have to just let God be God and us be His people. And I think, you know, for those listening who don't run a ministry or have a conference in the same way, who do you invite to your dinner table, who do you invite to your home, who you call it, who you have a conversation with, in the same way you can invite people into your home that might not think exactly the same, but what a great place to gather around a meal

and further in your love for God. And man, that's what I've experienced in such cool ways with my own friends. And so David, this has just been so fruitful. I want you to add to that he wants to. Well, I would just say, I would just put exclamation point on a couple different levels. One, the way you talked about how that was so good for you

and your friends as you dove into that, I think that's, yeah, it's what God desires as our Father. I think he's really pleased to see his sons and daughters. I don't know if it was all just girlfriend like daughters like Talking together around his word like I love the picture just okay his word is the foundation We love your word with that which is clear in your word. We're holding holding Fast to and as we try to apply in the world and we come to some different conclusions in this way, I think the father, our father's please, and seeing his family do that in a loving, caring, listening humble way. And then I would

just add, even with people outside the church who don't agree on first bucket issues, who would not believe the gospel, who wouldn't believe the authority of God's word, who have very different views on all kinds of things in the world that we would even hold to as first bucket issues as followers of Jesus, but still to have the ability to sit around the table with and listen to and understand as best as possible and be able to Listen humbly and then offer a different perspective that comes from God's word with honor and with compassion. I just think about a variety of different groups and our culture today that would look at the church and be like the church hates us or the church and that do not feel honored by the church. When we've got a clear command first beater to honor everyone, that everyone should feel honor flowing from us toward them.

And that's one of the things to talk about. Like how do we share God's word? Like it's water for our friends in a spiritual desert instead of like things to talk about. How do we share God's word? It's water for our friends in a spiritual desert. Instead of like it's a weapon that we're wielding in a cultural war. Like no. Yeah, we're at battle, but the spiritual forces of evil in heavenly realms, that's our battle. Not with people. Not with people.

We honor people. And so to be able to even have those kind of conversations with with people who are not followers of Jesus in order to show the beauty of God's word to them in the way we approach them. I think is that is a whole nother level at which this is so needed today. Gosh, it's so good. I know we're going low but I have to say this because this what you just said was exactly what bothered me is that the conversation at the top of that I can't bring it to people, what every one of those people said to me is numerous people is they said, you know, gosh, it's going to have to reveal that to you.

Like God revealed to me, gosh, it's going to have to reveal that to you. And like, I'm not going to talk about it like God revealed that to you. But it made me so frustrated because then I was like, well why has God not revealed it to me? Like why did God reveal it to all of you? But he didn't reveal it to me. And then it made me feel like I was left out as something that God had for his people. And I was like questioning, well why God?

Like if this is so good and you told all these people and they won't share it with me and I have to wait for you like a nasty. and you're not this is not being revealed and that was really frustrating because it made me feel like left out of a good thing and I just don't feel like God leaves his people out of a good thing you know I feel like everyone's invited to the same cross the same table and so that was just really frustrating to me and I feel like sometimes you know people as Christians like you had that mentality I was like oh we're real it to them it's like no like I called you to go and make

disciples like you to go and preach to where bad doesn't people and also like I love that what's this we're in the new testament when he's like how would I know no one's unless someone's told me me. Like you have to read it to me, you know? And so I just think it's so good. We're talking about this because as believers, like we are called to share the word, to honor people, to help explain these things. That's why you set with those people a day after day

for 12 hours and went through every single book, not just expecting like, oh, I can leave and God can reveal it. Yes, God can. Yes, God can do that. He can bring it in a dream. He can speak it to the person. He can do it. But also like if you're there,

then I think I'd using you in that moment. You have an opportunity. So I'm glad you brought that up. I'm glad I was doing it. I got one real quick thing there. I know we're on time. Oh, at what? I just got to hit on that one.

Like I was, because I was just in Mark 942 through 50 this last week. And that's when Jesus is talking about hell as an unquenchable fire where the worm never dies and the fires never quenched. I mean, it's such a heavy passage about eternal judgment. And but at the very end, it said, Jesus says, he starts talking about being salt in the world and being at peace with one another.

And I've always thought, well, that just felt like a left turn. Hell, peace, peace with one another. But then the more I meditate on the more, okay, that makes sense. all peace with one another. But then the more I meditate on the more, okay, that makes sense. If we know we have eternal life in Jesus, and we are surrounded by people who are on a road that leads to eternal hell, then let's get peace with each other. Like don't fight with each other. Yes, have good discussions about disagreements But lift your eyes to what matters most and it's disgusting that we hold on to and the world needs to hear it and three billion people in the world Haven't even heard it and all kinds of people around us need it So so get your folks there and be salt be the kind of

Yeah, savoring presence and people's lives around you that they'll want to hear that just like Jesus Tax collectors and centers drawn to him be those kind of people in the way we honor and the way we love and we share good news that we know Like stuff fighting with each other like so fighting together for Spread the gospel to people around you. So anyway, it's so good. I'm so glad you said that I mean, I feel like we could talk for hours. And for those listening, I hope that you're so encouraged. I'm so encouraged. I kept thinking of question after question, conversation after conversation. Those are the best kind of conversations to get into an apply case. You never know when you're starting a podcast, where the conversation will go. You can have 10 questions for a period and you

go all 10, or you can have 10 questions for it. And you just go all over the place because that's for God's leading. And this was certainly one of those I'm so thankful for that. Everybody don't forget to go pick up his book don't hold back it's coming out and I think two weeks from now what's the release date? Yeah, February 28th. Yeah, you can pre-order it. Pre-order it now. Get it right when it comes out. If you like this conversation there's a lot more where that came from. David thanks again for being on the podcast. Every time Christian and I both talk to you

or Heather, we have a greater desire to know God and those are the people that you want to surround yourself with. So we're grateful for that. And just so grateful for your family and your ministry. Well, that's 100% mutual. So, so great. And like you said, praise God, even for the way you lead a podcast like this and follow in the Spirit's leadership. So yeah, just super thankful for you, Sadie and for Christian and your family and may God bless all the work to your hands.

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. you