WHOA That's Good Podcast - Whatever You're Going Through Has an Expiration Date | Sadie Robertson Huff & Tauren Wells

Episode Date: August 10, 2022

Grammy-nominated artist Tauren Wells brings some incredible truths about how to make relationships work, when to seek counseling, handling unexpected feelings of emptiness, and the very best thing you can do for someone else. Sadie and Tauren also talk about how to live your life without leaving your potential untapped and how to use your influence well — everybody has the ability to move someone! Tauren shares tips for starting a career in music. And Sadie sparks a deep conversation about something that's been keeping her up at night: What will eternity with God look like? Tauren's album “Joy In The Morning” is available now. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

JLL believes you should expect more from your office space. So ask yourself, is your office space working as hard as you are? Does it foster collaboration, fuel productivity, and help build culture? Is it designed with intent? Is it a place you want to be? Your office can be a powerful asset, so put your office to work with JLL and see a brighter way. Learn more at jll.com slash Spotify. What's up, fam? Welcome back to the world. That's good.

Hi, cats. Happy Wednesday, everybody. Hope you're having a great week so far. Y'all, we have some fun stuff in the yellow world coming up. Literally next week, we have our conference. I got my conference T on right now. Can't wait to see you guys all there. If you're not there, I'm so sorry you're missing out on this, but I'm sure we'll let you in into some moments. But that's next week.

Today, I have a super special guest on the podcast. So excited about him being back on the podcast. This guy literally saying at our wedding, so he means a lot to our family. And we are so thankful for his new album, Out Joy and the Morning. We have Tornwell's back on the podcast. Welcome back.

Yo. What up? Yo, I like that. Maybe I should start saying, yo, welcome back to the show. Good back here. That's good. That's awesome.

I love it. Well, I'm glad to have you back. You know, it's funny because they said, you know, Torn has a new album out. He should be on the podcast. I said, absolutely. I was like, wasn't he just on the podcast? And they're like, that was like a year ago.

I was like, what? Time flies. time has fun Especially in the post pandemic era. It's like those years never happened I know it is so strange. It is so strange. Well, we have a couple things in common One is that we like to dance So that's fun. You're a lot better than me. I don't know about that. You literally went on so you think you can dance and like are the girls. So you think you can dance. I did not go on so you think you can dance. That would be legit. I went on dancing with the stars.

That is not that is not me. You can dance. So you did so good. That means you really can dance. This is the stars means you got a chance, but this doesn't mean anything. You did so good. That's hilarious. That's awesome. But we also have kids, kind of the same age. Yes. Wait, is Banner, how old is he? He's 15 months. Okay, so one month older than honey awesome. Yes

Yeah, it's wild into right now. I mean as you know, they're just kids are insane He's the the fourth boy that God has blessed us with and he is Really discovered his personality and his defiant will. So I think more than any of our other kids, he has this like ability to throw a fit that I haven't seen in our pre-hosted children. And all of them can turn up pretty good, but it just has happened so early with him, and so we're having to put the smack down. Oh yeah, listen, it is hard because with honey,

like she thinks when I say no, it is the most hilarious thing, and I guess because I typically have a pretty positive tone, and so when I say no, what you would think would scare her, but instead she cacles. She laughs. Loses it.

And I looked at my mom one day because I was like, honey, no, do not do. I mean, I was being strong with her. I grabbed her little hand. She's just laughing her head up and I looked at mom. I was like, what do I do with this? Like, what do you do?

So we're learning that too. Yeah, it's an adventure. I don't know if we raise them or if they raise us. It's tricky. That's true. I think you both learned in the process. Oh, that's awesome. Well, I'm excited to have you back. And also, I got to see you recently at Caleb Awards, which was awesome. You're a great host. What was that? What was that experience like getting to host with Matthew? It was dope. It was easy. Matthew is a vet when it comes to hosting the fan awards.

He carries it a lot. I don't know if people really realize the weight that Matthew actually carries for the award show with putting a lot of the content together, writing a lot of his content together, writing a lot of his material, some of those moments, of course. One of the producers of the show, Steve Strout, has gone on to be with Jesus this year, and he was an integral piece too. But Matthew just blows me away with his creativity, house spontaneous. can be, how he holds it all together. So I was just like

riding his wake, you know, excited about my suits and just having a good time. That's awesome. Hey, that's part of it. You know what's crazy? When we started this buy gas, four years ago, gosh, we were like, okay, how do you start a buy gas, right? Like, what do we do? And my friend Steph, who works with me, who's now the president of L.O. It's a very official title, but she kind of runs on the back end of everything we do. She was trying to help me start a podcast. The other one I was doing what to do, and she said, you know what, I'm going to call a friend, because I think he could help us, and it was Steve Stroud.

And he actually set with me the whole entire first use of the podcast with every guest at Interu and helped me navigate how to do this thing. And yeah, and what's crazy is fast forward four years later, and I won the fan award for the podcast. And the next day he passed away. And it was just it was really a wild, wild thing. He's the one that texted us and let me know I was nominated and couldn't believe it. Just the journey with him. So it's just a crazy story. That is so crazy.

Yeah, it is crazy. And the common thread that really inspired me about Steve's life was, you know, sometimes you can feel like maybe you're the only one. Someone is making feel special or believed in. And I felt that way about see like oh Steve really believes in me he really supports me and then I started hearing so many stories like yours of people he just poured into and it

really inspired me to be intentional you know about time and investment in people he had a really beautiful life. He did, he really did. And yeah, he showed up. Like he didn't just help me from afar. He literally set a girl's to culture me every single one. And that just meant so much. So yes, what a good life.

He lived. I'm glad we got to honor him even in telling some of y'all that story who all you listening might not know Steve, but I just shows you the impact one person can make. That y'all might not know the name of, but man, he got so much started that you guys see and are touched by, which is awesome. Okay, so I know you've been on the podcast, so I won't ask you straight out what the best

piece of advice you've ever been given is, but I'm going to ask you some pieces of advice in different areas of your life that I think we could all benefit from. Okay. Let's start with the marriage. Do your guests get nervous usually with this? I feel like it's such a big question. The best advice. I don't even remember what I said last time.

I know, no it's huge. It isn't too wouldadie. And yes, people get nervous. But you know what? It just breaks the ice from the beginning. I actually think though, and why I ask that question, and I'll tell you, is because normally, what people come up with in that moment,

whether it's the best piece of advice they've ever been given or something that sticks out to them, because this person's so influential who's on my podcast and you know so much of what they do, what's really cool is to see what influenced them and who spoke over them or what was said or what they learned that

helped them become who they are. And normally when someone says their best piece of advice, it's almost like, oh, well, that's an obvious. We can see that you were touched by that or we can see that you were moved by that. And I want people thinking like that who listen to this podcast because they're hearing stuff that you'll save for the next 30 minutes. It's probably not your first best-use advice that they will then take on and tell someone else,

this is what they are influenced by. So it's just cool to see the chain reaction of advice that you're given and how it shifts your lives in different and different ways. So you don't have to be intimidated, doesn't have to be the best, but give us some good marriage advice. Well, I think the best marriage advice I could give would be learning to

communicate to each other in the way that the other person feels actually heard and spoken to well. That's been like a revolving door from our dating relationship to the early years of marriage. We've been married almost 12 years. Even recently, we've been in counseling, talking about how we talk to each other. And we always say this like, your words matter. So words carry our heart, they carry our intentions, they carry our attitudes, our affection. So we should really try to get good at words. And communication

is one of the most important parts I feel like of our relationship and learning how to speak to each other and hear each other. Like sometimes it's not being offended by what you're hearing, but sometimes it's presenting what you're saying in a better way so that the person doesn't feel defensive. So we're just constantly learning that and honing that. That's so good. Man, that is so good and that's something everybody can? That's so good, man. That is so good. And that's something everybody can relate to. I mean, even if you're not married in relationships with people, like learning how to communicate in such a way that, you know,

you're not defensive, they're not defensive. If you could say it better, that's huge. I mean, that's like changing stuff. That's just living in a more peaceful home stuff, you know. I love how you mentioned y'all are in counseling and talking about that because you know I mean I think nowadays people are so pro counseling. We actually just hired our first yellow counselor who is meeting with young girls locally and helping us some on our app which is just blessing, because we're huge advocates for that.

But let's say like in life in general, like when do you get to the point where you're like, okay, I need counseling, let's call someone, or is it more like we always need counseling? Why not talk to someone? How do you all kind of see that? J-L-L believes you should expect more from your office space.

So ask yourself, is your office space working as hard as you are? Does it foster collaboration, fuel productivity, and help build culture? Is it designed with intent? Is it a place you want to be? Your office can be a powerful asset, so put your office to work with JLL and see a brighter way. Learn more at jll.com slash Spotify. I think there's been a few benchmarks for us

that we've decided we will always engage a pastoral voice or the voice of a counselor and major life decisions or transitions. We always make time to meet with our counselors. So that was before we got married. The first year of our marriage, we did a lot of counseling when we had our first child. I think with every child,

we've actually had counseling because the dynamic of your life changes so dramatically when you add people to it. Whether it's a spouse, a child, children, when we were making decisions about ministry, we involved with pastoral voice or our counselor. So it's just kind of an ongoing thing where we know like doctors appointments and dentist appointments and you know you have to make them for your overall soul health. And the best thing we can give to each other, the best thing that we can give to our children,

to the people that are kind of shaped by our influence is a whole us as individuals. So we try to do that. Now, I'll say when I was like, maybe nine or 10, my dad tried to take me to a child counselor because my parents were separated when I was young. It was tumultuous. And I didn't obviously at nine or 10 understand what was happening.

I wish that I would have had the awareness to lean in even as a child. Because, you know, the bumps in the bruises, scrapes, and scars that come with just living with little traumas that happen, it's really important that we take care of them as early as possible. One woman that I followed Dr. Anita Phillips, she's a baller. She said,

all through life we experience traumas and it's like people handing us little explosives. And most of us take these little explosives and we go put them in a closet somewhere. And most of us take these little explosives and we go put them in a closet somewhere. And eventually they all add up. We get married, things happen in life. We lose a parent, we lose a loved one. Something happens and it causes everything that we've stored all of those explosives

to ignite at the same time and go off and it brings the whole house down. But if we became experts in learning how to dismantle some of these things that life hands us, then when we do experience the big tragedies, the moments that feel like they're going to break us, or actually equipped in a sense to handle them and it doesn't trigger a bunch of other things. So I think as early as possible, if you're even thinking about getting married or wanting to be married one day,

I would start counseling now because you want to bring as much of a whole person into that relationship as possible. And I wish I would have been a better steward of my soul health and heart health prior to marrying Lorna. You know, thankfully there's grace in the midst of it and God has used our marriage to level both of us up. But I think the earlier the better. That's awesome. Such good advice. Last night I was actually watching a sermon by Matt Chandler and you know Matt is such a,

he's a Texas guy, you know, he's a big Texas guy, he's very manly if you will, which what does that mean, right? But he's just that guy. And so sometimes he can be kind of harsh and sometimes he can be kind of, you know, tough but he was talking about childhood trauma And I mean, he just got weepy and it really it really touched me because it just shows you like no matter who you are The things that you face when you're five years old matter, you know the things that that happened to you when you were little They have an effect on you and he was so compassionate towards others and so empathetic because he was thinking

about what happened to him too. And I just thought that was such a good sermon because I'm like, yeah, like you have to deal with those things. I don't know if you said, like if you don't deal with them eventually, they will all implode on you, if you will. So that's just great advice. It's great advice. I'm glad that you said that.

And for those listening, you know, if you don't know what to do with that, like Tours and saying, go see a counselor. Most churches, I feel like, have counselors around. You can ask someone for a referral or a recommendation. So, if you're kind of lost in that, maybe go ask a pastor, go ask a mentor at church, go ask someone, even call the church and ask if they have counselors that they know of in the area. That would be a great way to get some Christian counseling.

Okay, now last little piece of advice, let's go to music and career because you have, this is a big one, I mean, how do you get to think of advice? You know, I'm putting you majorly on spot. But what comes to mind when you think of giving people advice who is wanting to pursue a music career? I would say that you have to determine what success looks like for yourself before anyone else has the opportunity to shape it,

speak into it, or create a metric for it. If we don't know what the bull's eye is, we could climb the ladder and realize it was leaning on the wrong wall. And I think God has given me the gift of time to really figure out who I want to be and what I want to do. Because, you know, my story starts probably 12, 15 years ago, trying to do music. And it's been a slow but God has been faithful in it journey. And it's allowed me to constantly recalibrate and refine really who I want to be. Like, I'm cool with having dreams and goals and I'm definitely goal-oriented

and vision-oriented and all of that, but the biggest vision I have to have for myself is who I want to be. And that's what I would, that would be the number one thing. Outside of, you know, you got to work hard, you know, you got to grind, you know, you don't have to get on YouTube too early, let yourself develop in the dark room for a little bit. But, know what you want, know who you want to be.

Let's go, man, that's such good advice. So speaking of who you want to be, you have such a unique artist because you're seeing these, I mean, obviously they're Christian-based songs. You could sing worship songs. You could sing whatever you want because your voice is amazing. But then you also get up there and you dance and you perform. And I mean, at Caleb Awards, the final words, that performance was, I mean, that was epic.

That was so, so good. And so I just love how like, you're not like anybody else, but you also clearly have been influenced by other people, you know what I mean? I think about like Michael Jackson, you know, like it's like Michael Jackson style, which is awesome and Christian music, but it's not cheesy, you know? It's actually like really cool and it's really well done.

How do you, how do you fully be who you are, but also be influenced in a positive way about what others do, but not be a copy of that? Does that make sense? Yeah, I think so many people are like, oh, I like what that guy does, but instead of just being influenced by them, they try to be them, and that never works.

So how do you find the balance of that? Well, I think my parents, first of all, did a good job of instilling a certain level of confidence in me to just be myself and not be afraid to play alone. It's something that I tell my boys all the time now that my dad told me I was upset because the kids weren't playing with me at recess on one particular occasion.

And my dad was like, just go do something by yourself. Don't be afraid to play alone. And that's kind of been my mantra like, okay, I'm going to do me. And I hope that it resonates with people. And my heart is to serve people. But I know that not everybody's going to like me or like it or understand it or whatever. So I think having that deep level of confidence ingrained in me from my parents speaking over me,

like I remember the day my mom told me you are such a handsome young man. I remember what I was wearing. It made an effect on me. I remember moments of my mom saying, you are brilliant, which, you know, I'm like, I don't know if I'm brilliant, mom. But like, I remember those, I remember my dad saying, you are a leader, you know, and I just, I think it's so important we undervalue the power of saying how we feel about people in a positive way. And so with my kids, I try to never hold back and I might be OD in on it. And I never want them to have an inflated view of themselves, but there are so many voices trying to tell all of us who we are, who we're not, who we're supposed to be, who we're not supposed to be. I think having that deep inner confidence is really important. And then, you know, I just recently, when I started the process of joining the morning, I got to spend three days with Stephen Ferdick writing for the album.

And I've looked up to him for a long time, been listening to him for a long time. And I was telling him kind of my struggle of, well, I lead worship at my church half of the year. I've been on staff at my church for my whole music career. So, there's just a part of me that loves the local church. That any moment I would put all the music stuff down

and I would just go work in my church and be completely fulfilled. I love leading worship, I love preaching, I also love dancing and I love pop music and I love hip hop and I love hip hop. And I have all of these things that I want to get out, but sometimes I gravitate toward what I think people want the most.

Yeah. And it's not necessarily who I'm called to be the most. And he gave me permission. And I think that's what a lot of people need as permission. He said, I think you need to feel permission to bring your whole self into this next season of your life. And that's where I wrote this album from. That's where I had the confidence to go out on the Kayla Fan award stage and do a whole thing, a

choreographed dancing and the music videos and all of that is because I've decided whether misunderstood or not, whether the results are everything that I want them to be or not, I am not going to go to my grave with any potential untapped. So even if I don't feel like I'm the best dancer, I love it, I'm gonna go do it. That's awesome. It's so good. That's the vibe. That's a great vibe.

And I tell people that all the time, so many people, especially in the college age, it's like because I think you had to pick like one major, you know, like you get to pick one major, one minor, what are you gonna do is these two things? And it's like, you're supposed to hone in like everything that you're created to be into like these two things.

And then you have to go find one job that has, you know, something to do with these two things. And it's like actually God created you so originally and so uniquely and put so many giftings in your heart and you're not bound by that having to all be summed up in one thing and you know I don't think it's bad that the system is we have a major and it's not bad that you go get a job that that's not what I'm saying but I just feel like if you think that you can't be all that you're called to be all that you're created to be because you're confining it to one thing, then I think that's where it becomes a

problem. I always tell people because I was like, well have this in me and have this in me and I just don't know which one. I'm like, you don't have to choose. You know, like, like, you can do both, you can be both and you know, hopefully you have a long life ahead of you to where they'll all come into the picture at some point. And so I love that you're not just saying, well, yeah, I like pop, so I'm going pop. Or I like worship song going worship.

Or I like to dance, so I'm just gonna go dance. Like you're doing it all in one, and that's what makes something the world hasn't seen before. And that's what's cool. And I think like for people to realize when you just do that one thing, or when you say, well, I'm not the best answer or something, I'm gonna dance.

The world misses out and something super cool. If we all didn't do it because we weren't the best, only one person would be doing it. Who is the best? And we'd have no standard for the best. Because there'd be no one trying. There'd be no one trying. You would be boring.

It would be totally boring. So I just love that. Okay, one more question before we get to this album because it is so good. I can't wait to talk about it. So let's give some social media advice because you're so good at social media. I actually wrote down everything that you are.

You are, like the things that you say. You are, you'll talk about, I mean, because you make it fun. Like you'll do the dance stuff, you'll do all this kind of stuff, but then you'll go deep. Like you talked one time about, I wrote it down about how we can bring our doubts to God.

Then you talked about this whole thing about Ephesians 2.10 for we are God's masterpiece, good hymn. And what I wanted to point out is like, you are not afraid to go on social media and get people a word, which you're like that all the time. Like you can give encouragement. But talk to people about using their platform. Because I think that you do such a good job on using your platform for what it's intended

to do to get your stuff out there, but to also just give people good advice, give people word, encourage people, motivate people, move people. So talk to people about using what they have in their hands. Yeah, I think what you said, said is perfect. It moves people. Every person has the ability to move someone. And every skill, talent, gift, interest has the potential to move someone. And I've just decided that if I'm going to move people in any direction, I want to move them toward God and toward each other. So the goal of my Instagram TikTok Facebook, whatever it is, the metaverse is to move people, you know, toward God and toward each other. And I think sometimes we discount the power of what we have because we so closely analyze

what we don't have. Sometimes we take better inventory of what we lack than what we possess. And I think if we take good inventory of everything that we have, we would realize we actually have a lot to offer someone. And I came to grips with the fact that I'm not going to reach everyone in the world as idealistic and optimistic as I am. But God has given all of us a measure of influence.

And ultimately, we're going to be held responsible for how we used what he gave us. And I just don't really overthink it. I do invest in it. I remember back in the day, I had like 10,000 followers on Instagram. Yes 10,000 and I was like this is too many followers. I'm deleting my Instagram Because I felt oh You know, so I deleted the Instagram and one of my friends texted me. He's like did you delete your Instagram? I was like yeah, he was like did you not know what to do with that influence? I was like okay, so I got back on Instagram and I was like okay

You know what can I give people and you know now we just do it But don't discount what you have it is is valuable. It has so much value. And that's where we go back to make success your own. Make it personal because if you're trying to evaluate yourself, I actually think that you said this and you said it better than how I'm about to paraphrase it. But just because you have influence doesn't mean you make an impact or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I talked about how, you know, you can be famous and not actually have influence. But you could be not famous in the world standard, but make more influence than someone who is. Because influence is about actually creating change. And so just because you have a blue checkmark doesn't mean you change anybody's life. It's the words you choose to say when you have that or even if you don't. Because someone who truly impacts, I really believe this,

if someone has 100 followers and truly impacts their 100 followers, they really could make more of a difference in people's life than someone with 100,000 followers. Yes. Because you impact people, which means those 100 people will multiply into their 100 people. And that, see, like, to me, that is so encouraging because it's like, oh, use what you have. So, it's such a good word. And I love what you said. You said don't overthink it. I think that is the most underrated social media

advice. Don't overthink it. Yesterday, I was recording this little video for social media, walked in my teammate, said, hey, can you record as real fast just 30 seconds. I said, yeah, I get on, I go, hey, guys, what's up? Oh, 30 seconds, I said, hey, go. And the girl said, I literally would have taken 30 minutes to do that.

How did you do that so fast? I said, let me give you the best piece of social media advice. Don't watch it back. And it's hot, don't watch it back. I was like, because if I watched that back, I'd sit here and I'd say, well, I kind of said this weird or I kind of looked weird,

and let me fix my hair. But it doesn't matter, you know, because I knew what I was saying. I said it clearly, you know,, what who cares what I look like. No one's gonna watch that and be like, well, when she said it like that, that was kind of weird or her hair looked bad. Like, you know what I'm saying?

And so I just think we waste so much time and we waste so much potential by overthinking what we're posting. Now, obviously hear me when I say, use wisdom and what you're posting. Think about it in such a way that, you know, you're trying to make impact, but don't overthink the little things that no one else would notice

only because you're being critical. So yeah, I said, best piece of social media, but I don't watch it back. And I love that. And I would say too, you know, when you're posting, like I think we should try to make an effort to post what is authentically our lives and so if you're going out on the boat with your friends you know

post about it but I also hope you know that you are spending time with Jesus in that you know he drops a thought in your heart or a sentence and you type it in your notes and you just post it. Like I don't think we have to be weird with like floral print posts and everything's color coordinated with the scripture because I don't think that that's very attractive. I love what Paul said. He was like I didn't shrink back from my faith. You saw how I lived among you. shrink back from my faith, you saw how I lived among you. I think there's something so important about all of us realizing the real power of the believers that we live among the people, not above the people, not outside, not in some weird parallel universe, where everything's always good, but to really authentically share our lives, our faith,

in a natural way, and then allow God to do something with it. That's so good, man. I love that. That's awesome. Alright, let's get to this album because it's so good. Joy in the morning. I love even just the title. The title makes me just like, yes, like, we need this. We need this message. Whatever it is, I'm here to listen to it because because we need that. That's joy in the morning. So talk to me about why the message, why the title, where are you going with it?

Yeah, joy in the morning. Oh, well, the scripture says, we've been man doer for a night, but joy comes in the morning. And we have all been through night seasons. People listening, you may be in one right now. There have been so many funerals I've been at that I didn't wanna go to. So much heartbreak in the world

that we're abnormally exposed to that our little hearts can't hardly handle. There have been just major cultural moments shifts in the very fabric of our society. And really, it can start to feel pretty dark, pretty quickly. And I just wanted to remind people that our ultimate hope is not God

solving all of our problems on this side of eternity. All of our hope is not getting the promotion or finding the right person or all of the things that we think are going to infuse us with joy and hope Those things are nice and God can use those things and there's certainly nothing wrong with them but our hope hinges on the horizon of heaven and there is something so concrete and tangible

about what we have beyond this. Yeah. And I just wanted to remind people that no matter what you are walking through, that all of our problems have an expiration date, that one day we will experience exclusively joy, hope, peace, love, comfort, strength, unity that exists in God's presence. And it's easy to lose sight of that. So I hope that this resets our sightline on heaven. Yeah, man, that is so good. I love that exclusively joy, hope. You know, I don't know if you ever

have had this experience, but I've literally had this happen to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it.

I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it.

I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I'm's literally happened recently as a kid. Well, it's been a while since that's happened until about three nights ago, laying in bed, about to fall asleep, and there it is, eternity.

And I was just like, whoa, you know, and it's not that I'm, it's not like, I totally believe in heaven, I totally believe that's, you know, where I'm going, but it's just the thought of eternity that's so wild to me. So I get Christian like, Christian, you're so awake. I'm like, I guess I'll think you might eternity.

What does it mean? I'm so sorry talking about it, but what's really cool is like when you just said that, like exclusively joy, exclusively hope, exclusively peace. Like that's what's found in the presence of God. It's like, it makes that thought less scary. And I think for us, you have to acknowledge that life is but a breath. Life is, we are going to die. We go to all these funerals and one day it will be ours not to get morbid on you, not

to go too deep, but to just think about that. And I love that, like the Lord, it says in the word, like he put the concept of eternity of mankind, even though we can't understand the concept, we know it's something that's coming. And so to think about the fact that that, what is coming, that actually is joy, and that actually is peace, that actually is the presence of God. And I think, you know, sometimes when I was younger, I can say, okay, if eternity is just gonna be spent worshiping God,

like asking myself the honest question, is that enough? Well, that really satisfy my soul, because in maturity, mine will say, well, I wanna make sure that I know my people and that I have this and I have that. But understanding, and when you have those moments during worship sets with God, where you're worshiping and you almost lose track of time and you don't even think about it,

you're just worshiping God and like, you feel so much peace and so much joy and so much excitement. It's like in those moments that you say, man, I can't wait for heaven because this is the best feeling in the world. And so I just love that. I know that took me on a different route when you're talking about that, but I think it's cool. And I know talking to some friends about that and we all related. So I'm like, some people need to hear that.

But yeah, I'm totally with God. It's great. It's good. It's good. It's good. And it's what we hope for. Like that is our ultimate hope. If eternity with God is not good and it doesn't exist,

then all we are left with is disappointment, heartbreak, loss, dysfunction, sin, but because we have this hope and it's not some figment of our imagination, it's not a myth or a fairy tale, when we think about eternity, we have to look at it through the lens of God and the character of God. And the fact that we know that God has existed and still robed himself in flesh and stepped into historically the plant earth and touch people and cried with people and

wept for himself and ate with people and laughed with people and then died and was resurrected gives us the reality that there is a reality beyond this one. And it's not some thing out there in the cosmos. This is built on the character and nature of God. So if we know that we can trust God with the details of our lives here and now, we know that we can trust Him with everything that's after this.

I think what's cool is, back in the day when they would build the churches, they would put the churches, they would put the cemetery right out in front of the church so that when you went in, you had to contemplate death and when you left, you had to contemplate death. And I think everything now in our culture, I mean, we defy age. So we definitely don't really think about death. And I think if we're viewing it through the right lens, which is what God wants for us, is that, you know,

Paul said to live is Christ, but to die is gain. Gain. Like there is something beautiful on the other side of this. And it's what we have to look forward to. It's so good. OK, so just stopping for a second because I know some of you're listening right now and you're like whoa like the last eight minutes just went like whoa. And I love it because I know people need to hear this you know. There are some of you guys you're listening you're like this is so weird because I've been thinking about this. I know, there are some of you guys, you're listening, you're like, this is so weird,

because I've been thinking about this. I've been literally awake at night, cannot sleep because I cannot think about maybe the fear of death or eternity or a loss someone. And am I gonna see them again? And you're thinking about all these questions that you don't have answers to. And this is exactly what you need to hear.

That God so loved the world, He sent his one and only son, that whoever believes in him, shall not perish, but have eternal life. That's John 3.16. That's the reality for you. So, if you're missing some answers to these questions, that's your answer to the question. Jesus Christ has answered your question.

Some of you are like, I've never thought about this before. This is totally over my head. I don't go to a church where there's a cemetery. I haven't contemplated death. I don't even, I'm 20 years old. Well, I just want to encourage you. These are things you, you got to think about, you know, because the, the reality is we've all been given life and we will all pass away. These are two obvious facts about life. And so I hope that this can encourage you though, as you journey through

these thoughts and as you go on this path, there is a hope. And I love that that you reminded us about this is a hope. There is joy in the morning. There's joy to come. So anyways, I love that we went there. This is so good. This is so good. I love this quote you have in your song. This line is so good. You said, this is, this hit me. It ain't even faith until your plan falls apart. I was like, and you still choose to follow. That is so good and you still choose to follow.

When you're writing these songs, like, as you're writing them, do you ever just write and you go like, whoa, like, that hit me? Or is it from a place of overflow? Like, I just went through this. And so I'm going to try to take what I experienced here and put it into a song form. Or is it both? It's both. And when a line like that hits, I'm like, that's kind of woo! That's kind of crazy.

That's kind of crazy, because I get excited about the process of songwriting. So when you get a gym like that, it's like, woo! Somebody help me. Like, I have to take a second and just stop. The whole thing is like, hey, y'all gotta just say it one more time

and it ain't even, ah, so happy, hold it up. So, let's go. I get very excited about it and then I kind of get back into the zone, but yeah. That's so me though, I love it. Sometimes you gotta take a little praise break. Yeah, you have to, just shout around the room just a little bit.

I wrote that song with Stephen Fritter I'm gonna take a little praise break. Yeah, you have to. Just shout around the room just a little bit. I wrote that song with Stephen Fritter and Chris Brown and Stephen lays down on the ground when he writes and he just kind of tapping his finger and just, you know, trying to get it. And he said that, ain't even faith till your plan falls apart. And I was like, that's wild. And it's true.

It's true because faith is the substance of things hope for the evidence of things not seen. So some of us want to take the step of faith to choose the major to commit to the relationship, when we have this perfect picture of what the future is going to look like, and faith just doesn't work like that. Faith is actually for the difficulties. Faith is for the hardships. It's for when the plan falls apart. So I'm glad that you like that line, because that's definitely a praise break line for me.

That was a praise break. That's so good. Okay, last one I want to talk about is the song, Empty. Guys, it's so powerful. The whole thing is so powerful. I think it's a message we need to be reminded of. So you want to share a little bit about just the heart behind that song. Yeah, so full disclosure, you know, I'm not 20 or 25 or 30. I'm

actually getting ready to enter a unique phase of life called midlife and which is wild because I'm 36 I really feel young but that's what old people say so I'm trying to not say that but I started reading. Oh that's not old people say, so I'm trying to not say that, but I started reading. That's not old, that's not old anymore. Oh good, I think. I'm like, well, LeBron James is 37, Tom Brady's 40, he's still playing professional football, so. Exactly, that's not old anymore, it's changed. But I am reading a book called 2020,

and it's a vision for midlife, and someone who's actually 10 years older than me mentioned it in a podcast and I was like you know what I don't want to wait till I'm 46 to figure out what's been happening for the last 10 years of my life what if I actually got ahead of the game? And there's this amazing quote in there. And the whole premise of the book is about Solomon, who many people would say was the wisest man to ever live. He accumulated more wealth than Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk. He had more women than fill in the blank. more women than fill in the blank. He experienced so much of life, and he pin the words, which you alluded to this earlier, Sadie,

that there is a God-shaped void, for eternity in every human heart so vast that it could swallow the world whole and still be hungry. Wow. Yeah. So and this is the person this is Bieber you know who essentially said I have everything I want a family. I have everything I want Jesus. I mean this is a crazy statement from someone who has experienced everything and saying you can consume it all. Every hope and dream that you have in your heart. You can consume it all and still be hungry because there's a void that only God can fill. I remember sitting in my writing room,

it wasn't like this, this was the house we lived in before this. And I was just so excited to have a writing room, like my own creative space, because I'd spent most of my time writing my songs and recording vocals like under a blanket and a closet, or at the dining room table, trying to get my kids to leave me alone for five minutes so I could record a vocal. So I'm sitting in my room and my wife let me decorate it exactly how I wanted. So I had pain in the walls green and I had a couple of my plaques hanging up, you know, my little songs, you know, I'm saying and I'm looking around the room and I'm just like, man, this is so cool. This is awesome. I got my own room. I've got

plaques. This is dope. And then, you know, I hear my kids running around upstairs at the time I had three little boys and they're on some adventure. Lorna's in the kitchen and she's getting a meal together because I have family coming over. We're gonna watch an award show that I'm nominated for an award in. So I'm like, wow, this is the dream, dude. Let me go over to my piano over here and just write a joyful celebration, you know? So I go to the piano and I just start playing these chords.

And the first thing that comes out is you could have it all and still feel empty. And I was like, uh, wait a second. Do I feel empty? Because songwriting, I don't know if people that don't write songs will necessarily relate, but if you journal or write poetry or anything, songwriting kind of excavates, feelings and emotions from your heart that you maybe didn't detect. You maybe didn't know that it was there. So sometimes when I'm writing, I'm like, wow, I didn't know that this was in my heart. And so the song began to take shape and it turned into this thing of you can have so many good things. You can have good things that are from God. But if

but it's still not God. So it's still not going to really fulfill every part of your soul. And I think we have bought into, and this is what my book brings out, what we have bought into is even in our Christian messaging that God's going to fulfill our dreams and our dreams are going to fulfill us. And the truth is, we will never be actually fulfilled with as many things as we do. Even as pure as our intentions may be, we may preach revivals that save thousands. We may be the biggest influencer in the world, but we will not be totally fulfilled until we step into God's presence on the other side of eternity. Wow.

Yeah. Then and only then will we sigh with relief, this is everything I've been waiting for. This is everything I've been longing for because the reality is we were not created for here. Yeah. So. Wow.

Come on. That's so good. That is so powerful. It makes me think of I remember when the greatest showman came out which I love that movie I Love that movie. It's so good I like why are there not more movies like this?

I know and I remember going to the theater Christian and seeing it when it came out and the whole you know It was just packed because that movie was just doing such incredible things. And at the end of the movie, obviously this guy, he had it all, you know, he started the movie poor, then he gets it all. He has fame and success and money, and as he's gaining it all, he's actually losing all the things that's important to him.

And at the end of the movie, he's sitting in that bar and he is just destroyed. You know, he realizes he just put so much into things that were empty. And all his people come back and they start singing and it was like, I remember I just started crying and I'm not like a movie cryer. I do not cry movies. And I'm saying they're crying, I'm looking around everybody's crying. And I'm thinking it's because it hit like a soul level

of like we understand that all of this that the world can give us is not enough. It is empty. It's like that song in the encouragement. Never enough. Like you can have it all. You can have the spotlight on you and you can have the fame.

You can have the success. You can have the relationship. You can have it all. But there will be something in your soul longing for more because it's who you were created to be. It's where you were created from and where you're created to go. And so I just love it. I mean this whole message is so good. This podcast is going to blow people's mind. And I do pray sincerely for those who are listening that you do not just listen to this podcast turn it off and try to go back into a normal routine like like take a second think about these things Pray maybe you've never done that before like turn out the music in your car. You got to drive ahead of you begin to pray cry out to God

You know give your life to God. Go to church this Sunday. May you never have been, find a local church. If you're not there yet, watch a church online. There are so many, so many churches, so many resources for you to learn more. Go get a Bible, start reading. If you don't know where to read, start in the Gospels, Matthew, Martin, Luke, and John, the story of Jesus' life.

I just encourage you to dive in deeper to the things that we're saying. It's a second. Speaking of deeper, what's cool with this project is I partnered with you version to do a six day devotional. Oh, come on. So yeah, people can go get the you version Bible app. You can download it right to your phone

and look up, join the morning, torn wells. And we go through, actually, join the morning, the themes Welles, and we go through, actually, join the morning, the themes of empathy, and some of the other songs on the album as well. So just something to encourage you and take you a little bit further. Yes, that is the best next step. Go do that.

If you don't already have the Bible app, the U version Bible app, download it, and you can type it in in the search bar what Torin's talking about go listen to the album, joy in the morning, Torin thank you so much for being on the podcast and jumping into these deep conversation because it truly matters and I'm so thankful this was this was awesome. Well thank you so much for having me I just love you Christian little honey and can't wait to see everything that God continues to do with you and through you. you