WHOA That's Good Podcast - Why Our Culture Needs Commitment | Sadie & Christian Huff | Shawn Johnson & Andrew East

Episode Date: June 17, 2026

Shawn Johnson and Andrew East are back with Sadie and Christian for a fun, honest conversation about why commitment feels so hard in a world with endless options. They talk dating, marriage, fear, parenting, and their new book, “The Courage to Commit,” while sharing how standing by the choices we make can lead to deeper freedom and stronger relationships. From dating-app culture to Shawn and Andrew’s “Special Forces” TV show experience, they share what it looks like to stop second-guessing what matters. This Episode of WHOA That's Good is Sponsored By: https://lolablankets.com — Get 40% off select Lola Blankets products using code WHOA at checkout. Experience the world’s #1 blanket with Lola Blankets. #sponsored https://loveoneinternational.org/whoa — For just $20 a month you'll provide life-saving support to a child in need. Plus, right now, when you join The Love Club, you’ll receive an exclusive Love Club hat and one of the last few copies of my devotional, How to Put Love First. http://primallypure.com — Get 15% off your order when you use code WHOA at checkout! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Happy World That's Good Wednesday. I hope you're having a great day, but per usual, it's about to get so much better because we have some incredible guests in the house today. Actually, some of y'all's favorite Well, That's Good guest, they're back again. We have Sean and Andrew with their new book, The Courage to Commit. And literally, this message is so needed for our generation. We actually talk about this on the podcast so often, how commitment issues today is a real thing and affecting us in such negative ways. So I'm so excited for this. We also have co-host Christian back on the podcast. I like that tagline.

You're co-host Christian now. But Sean and Andrew, thanks for coming. Thank you for having us. Again, oh my gosh, we love talking to you guys. such a joy. And Andrew, it's so good to see you. I know, the romance here. It's been so long. I told Andrew, Andrew ghosted me a couple months ago. He invited me on this awesome trip. I sadly couldn't come. And I just never heard back from him. So I saw his face. He was feeling a little insecure. I was, I told you. I was a little confused, as people might say. But seeing you in person, it's, it's, I've forgotten all of my past insecurities. If it makes you feel better, he doesn't even text me back. He's the world's worst. That does make me feel better.

He also got his phone, like, dis- It's messed up. It's connected. Apple just shut him down. Shut you down. Yeah. Well, it really was true. Christian was like, I'm a little nervous about it.

See an Andrew lie. I just hope there's no beach. That's not true. That's not true. He's making that out. I'm just kidding. You kind of did, though. Okay.

Anyways, anyways, anyways, our last podcast did so well because we talked about delusional confidence. And people love that. So shout out to delusional confidence and where it got you guys. But today we're talking about commitment. And I think this message is so important. So first things first, tell us about writing this book because like we just talked about

before, books are no joke to write. So how did you all decide to write a book like this? It's no joke. It's taken us four years. And we were talking about we went through a couple of pregnancies at the same time. And I feel like half the time I was writing, I would come back and be like, I don't even know what that was. I, you know, postpartum brain.

But we've just seen such a rise in, like, anxiety and depression and people not feeling purposeful and driven. And, like, they have a path. And I feel like there's so much noise and so many voices in the world right now, especially with social media, that people need to learn how to find what actually means something to them and stick with it. And we travel the world for years, trying to, like, better our marriage. find the best psychiatrist and therapists, and we did intensives, and we did, we have business mentors and everything that we learned all kind of had this through line of the same thing of commitment. So we took all those tips and tricks and tools and put into a book. And it's cool.

Said, maybe you should try this. That's cool. Yeah. I mean, we live in the anxious generation, right? And I think it's this culture where there's an app for everything. It's all customized and catered to you. And there's so many options that people get overwhelmed by, oh, option do I choose? Like, is this the best option? And so then they end up treading water and not

making any choice at all as opposed to just saying, no, I'm going to choose one of these good options, cultivate it, grow it, steward it, and make it the best option. And when we looked at our life, the things that brought the most fruit, the most meaning, whether it be in our athletic careers, our relationships, our business, it was when we took that leap of faith and said, okay, I'm just going to commit to this one thing, stick with it, and then, you know, ride it through the highs and the lows, the good and the bad, and, you know, like, and see what it becomes. It's good.

Yeah. That's so cool. It actually makes me think of, which is kind of crazy. I remember this, that that means it really impacted me. But whenever I was living in Nashville, it was going to the belonging, and Alex Seeley preached this message, and it was about commitment. And she was talking about this little Italian restaurant in Australia and how it was, like, the greatest place ever, but they had one thing on the menu.

So, like, you, like, that's what you're getting. and everybody loved it. Like you went for it. And so when she got to America, it was like the worst nightmare ever to go to the cheesecake factory. Because it was like too many options. And you think like,

oh, you want all the options because the more, the better. But then you get crippled by the options because it's like this is too much. How am I ever going to choose one? And then you have like the fear of missing out or like somebody else is going to be better than you. And like that is so what's happening.

And our day with everything. You're so right. There's like too many options, too many things that you get to the point where you can't even choose one. I love how y'all talked about your story and you were saying like you were so committed from such a young age to something

and it really worked to your benefit whereas you had a struggle with commitment in some sense and it worked in the negative. How have you all seen in your personal lives, commitment bless you and commitment hurt you? The lack of commitment hurt you. The book is pretty much stories of how Sean commits to things well and Andrew doesn't.

And it's, you know, the stories on both sides. sides. No, I think our lives like blended really, really well because like I was so, I way over indexed in the commitment side with gymnastics as a kid. And then when I left gymnastics, I didn't think it was needed in the real world. So then I like wandered aimlessly and felt completely lost in life. I feel like Andrew, you kind of always had that plan B in football and with the NFL in particular.

And so you even write in the book that you felt like you had a commitment issue within the NFL. But I will say in life, I think he's way better at commitment. Really? Like his discipline, his regimen, his like intentionality with our family, with committing to like the things that matter. You're way better at that. And so blending those two worlds together, I think has been really, really beneficial for our life.

That's cool. Yeah, I feel like you're like a super committal person. With your workouts and your sauna. Yeah, for sure. Super. And then businesses, you're flying a plane. Well, I feel like that's like that takes commitment and dedication. You got your doctorate for fun.

I think I learned through a series of mistakes. Like in business, it's like we would always kind of just like start something and then be like really lackadaisical with it. And so I don't know if you've ever started something that you had to close down, but it's a humbling process. So I would like to think that over the years I've learned how to do the commitment thing better. And that's kind of like, by the way, we wrote the book, not as, hey, we're experts and here's our step-by-step guide.

It's more of an exploration of how does one find, meaning and success or the probability of success, if that's what you're like chasing or like a deep connection in a relationship. And this was our understanding of that. That's cool. Yeah. That's cool. Isn't it interesting, like, I love that you said on the surface,

you would be like, yeah, I committed something for so long. But in the day-to-day things, sometimes it is easier and like, or sometimes it's like you might be that in big decisions, but it's the little things that get you. Because I feel like you're like that. Like, remember I used to make fun of you because, When we were at that ice cream place, you remember? Christian used to eat.

This was like a whole argument we had at TCBY in Orange Beach, Alabama. Where are you going to? Well, because it was so funny. Also, I miss TCBY. I know. It's so good. When we see one skirt, because they're not everywhere these days. The country's best yogurt.

Anyways, we were in Orange Beach and we were at TCBY. And Christian loves this combination back when we first got married a mint chocolate chip and cookies and cream ice cream in a milkshake that was like your thing you ate that every single night at home okay so we go to t t t t s baii and there's no literally every night oh man there's a while ago you still think a lot of chocolate milk every night now but you would go to ttby y do you really don't remember yes i i i know where you're going okay so there's so many options and he looks at him and he goes oh like do you think i would like a mint chocolate chote and cookies and cream milkshake, I was like, you drink that every night?

Like, yes, he's like, but do you think it would be good here? Well, it's called the country's best yogurt. It's the same thing as like when you get at home. It's just a different brand. And he could not. There's a huge argument. Yeah, because then I said, I think you have, no, because I was like, I think you have, I think you have, I think you have a hard time making decisions.

It went to a bigger, deeper route, okay? It started with the ice cream, but it got bigger. I was like, oh, sorry for just cluing you in on where I'm, where my, my, my, thoughts are at right now and just actually genuinely wanting your opinion off you think. He's over here like there's something. Yeah. And I was like, no, but I was like, I think that it, the root thing here is hard for you to make a decision because you're, you would always look at like what I got, whatever and like, wish

you were like, what if yours is better? You did that. Don't even. You're looking at me like, I'm crazy. I wanted a chocolate milkshake. We talked about this. And I was like, do you think, we had a whole thing on this. I was like, do you think I would like this from here?

And then it was like, uh, you eat it every night? But did we not have a full conversation about commitment and decisions? Yes. I was like, you have to make a decision. You have to be confident in your decision. Yes, and we have been better since that moment. So much better. I love that.

I love that idea. And it's a funny, small example of what I think happens at a bigger scale in life where if you're an ice cream store, you're probably going to walk out with some ice cream. But I think what a lot of people do is they don't mess up because they make the wrong decision. They mess up because they're like, oh, well. Yeah, they don't make any decision.

And it's like, because if you're not in an ice cream store and it's more, of an intangible decision like, hey, who should I go on a date with or who should I consider to pursue? Or even like a church. People are like, oh, I got all these options and let me just not choose any. Let me just like wait and hopefully I'll find the best one sometime. It's like, no, you choose the one thing. And then you'll see the fruits of it. And it's up to you. And try to make it the best one. We talk through like a long process from start to finish of you choose something. And as soon as you choose it, you need to drown out every other option. You need to try to make that the absolute best choice because we've also seen and we can go down like

the faith route of that too but people who get into a marriage and they constantly in the back of their head will say well maybe it's not the right person and the issue is not then the marriage it's the it's the fact that you're you're giving yourself an option to get out yeah and the commitment side of this is like radically saying this is my only choice now I need to take this choice be confident in it and do everything in my power to protect it and make it the best. And that's where I think the world

is preaching to people if you're not happy today it must be that you chose something wrong and that's so false. Yeah, that's so true and putting happiness as like the highest value of like, well, I need to be happy

so I'm going to get out of this and eliminate the thing that's making me not happy and go somewhere else but you're not going to like find that in something else. It is a lot of times of mindset. I'm such a

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the true joy that comes through overcoming hardship and monotony and the mundane and the boring middle because they're not getting there. They live in the honeymoon phase and once that's over, they're like, oh, I need to go find it again. Yeah. No, that's so true. Okay. Can we talk about dating?

Because I think that this lack of commitment is majorly affecting the dating world these days. Before we do that, though, I don't, I didn't remember y'all's meeting story until I was refreshing for this. And so tell how y'all met. And I really want to hear the second date B honey story. Oh, gosh. You can handle both.

Yeah, talk about how you all met, how y'all got together, and then we'll jump into commitment in the dating world. Me? Yeah. Okay. I met Andrew's oldest brother at the London Olympics. I was there working. I got assigned to cover a cycling event.

And then at the cycling event, I was assigned this guy, his name is Guy East from the USA cycling team to explain to me what was going on. And so we had a long conversation and we were like hanging out during the day during the event and at the end of the day he was like if you take anything away from our conversations,

it's that I think you should meet my younger brother. And I was like, what? Shout out, big bro. What? That isn't bro. So fast forward, we went on like our first, I would call it almost like a blind date because like we really hadn't talked in L.A. while I was on Dancing with Stars.

And in my brain, I'm just to type A, it didn't make sense how it would work. He was living in Nashville at the time going to Vanderbill University. I was on this show. I thought you were adorable, but I was like, I don't know how this is going to work. And then fast forward nine months later, I ghosted him for nine months. Ghosting and the texting world is just part of our thing.

And nine months later, he kind of sent me his last hurrah text of this is my last, you know, try at this. It was very sweet. I mean, I poured my heart into this poem. You did. It was very sweet. It was a poem? It was a poem. Oh, yeah, dude.

Wow. Oh, yeah. Like a rhyming poem. impressive. Oh yeah. Like, just simple A, A, B, B structure, you know, not doing anything crazy. No IQ.

It was so cheesy and so just unlike anything. It was like if football has taught me anything, it's how to persevere. And would you accompany me to the, it was, it was so cheesy. But I was like, wow. So I said, it worked. It worked. Oh my gosh. So I said yes.

I flew up to Nashville. And I think within 24 hours, I remember texting my mom. and saying, I think this is the guy I'm going to marry. Wow. That's awesome. And then the second, the bee story from that date. So then, yeah, I guess it was our third date. Yeah.

I took her to our lake house. I met the whole family. I was like, let's go. And so we had bees was a big thing in our family. Still is. I'm like a fourth generation beekeeper. Our kids are into it now, too. So it's so fun to watch them.

But I was like, all right, Sean, you got to learn how to ride a tandem bike because we used to do that all the time. shoot a bow and arrow and do the bees. And so I took her to the hives. We didn't have a bee suit that fit her because she's so petite. So we kind of just went in there with no suit. That makes sense.

And she got stung around. I was like, she can make a cut. On your first date, when you're like, what's your favorite color? Like, what's your biggest fear? I was like, bees. And we hadn't even talked about it. And then the next date you take me to extract honey

and I get stung. And I was like, oh my. It's not for the faint of heart, babe. Not for the faint of heart. And then you dropped me how to shoot a bow on the third date as well. And I evidently did that wrong. so my whole arm turned black and blue.

We took a family bike ride and she thought it was going to be a cute little one mile. She shot like a, like a, oh yeah. And it hits the strength over and over and over again. Oh, no. That's because it wasn't suited to your arm length or anything. Yeah, maybe the bees weren't either. So many. So many things that are wrong with that.

And then the tandem bike. So the tandem bike was still the same date. Like it's the same day. We've done the bees. It's never-ending date. And he's like, how about it? You said it so casually. Like, how about we go for a bike ride?

In my head, I'm like, oh, we've got a break from all this chaos. Romantic. Like, this is going to be so sweet. We're on the lake. 20-some miles later, with the whole family on a tandem bike. I think Sean was crying. How much more? I was going to die.

I was like, I don't know. Is that what Olympic cycling? Is that what families do that have? Dude, I got these ham hawks of legs because my dad put us in cycling competitions when I was 10. Your legs are insane. You're insane. It's because we've been just doing it for a long time. Also, your mom is a champ.

The fact that your mom just does all this. And I kept looking at her like, what are we doing? She's like, do you have sisters or is it just boys? One sister who just got engaged. Oh, that's awesome. Shout out Christine and Tyler. Oh, I congrats. So she just does it with y'all too.

She's a family mom-biker. Yeah, she gets some special treatment because she's the only girl in the family. But the rest of the boys, it's like you got it. But then any woman that Mary sent to the family to the four boys, it's kind of like a Can you keep up? Can you get stung by a beat? Still have a good attitude. Bruse your arm and go into one of the hours and then you're in.

Okay, that's commitment though. I mean, that's no joke. I mean, so I think one of the problems kind of what we talked about is that there are so many options. I think dating apps give you a million options and you're swiping and you're this. And so people have like a fear of committing to relationships because they're always thinking like something might be better. What if something else opens up? Speak a little bit to that problem. problem and what y'all are seeing in that.

I mean, just think of how the dating apps are built. It's like swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe. You're like going through tons of options. And you're judging a book by its cover immediately in a split second. And I think that conditions you to say, okay, hey, this one, this one's a little annoying. Or, you know, we did two dates and I don't know if we vibe. Let me just go to the next one. Swipe to the next one.

And it's, I think you're missing out on so much where there is a lot of excitement in the variety of choices. Oh, she was really funny. we had great conversation. She's like intellectually interesting. But it's like there's also so much excitement in the depth. Like I know Sean and I've been together now 13 years and it's it's so fun. And also a little scary where like I can't believe.

There's new parts of you that I'm seeing and how do we navigate this? So it's like I think moving past that surface level inch deep but mile wide and into the, hey, we're going a mile deep. It's like, oh man, that is exciting. and meaningful. We've done a whole podcast on like the one theory, which I still believe is, my personal belief is that it's false. Because I feel like in the swipe right culture,

people think that if they just keep swiping, they'll find the perfect one. And it's just one more swipe away, or five or ten or ten more minutes or ten more days. And I think if we unromanticize that a little bit and have a conversation of, even in, you know, as we're getting ready to get engaged back in the day, we naturally both had so many thoughts of, is this the right person? Yeah.

You did? You thought it was too short, okay? And you naturally have all those thoughts, but at some point you have to say this is a good enough person for me to actively try for. Yeah. Yeah. And if you just keep trying, you make it the best possible person in the world. And I cannot imagine having chosen any other person in the world. You are now the absolute perfect person.

But like when we first start dating, there's so many things that you're like morphing and changing and evolving into. I agree with that. I, uh, this goes about, I think Christian and I kind of live in this like self-improvement, bro, biohack kind of world. I feel like you're an icon in it. You're an icon in it. And it's like, it's like, it's like the self-improvement, you know? And I just look at marriage and how much we have influenced each other and kind of molded each other to become who we are today. I think in a parallel universe, Andrew would be like floating down a river with no job playing guitar just for fun.

I don't think that would ever happen. Huckleberry Finn style. But like what I've realized, and it took me way too long to realize this, is try as I might, I cannot change Sean. We've made this commitment to our marriage that that is not going to change. So the only thing left to change is me. And like, that's a really exciting place to be. You want to talk self-improvement. You wake up every day, you're like, okay, we're having this argument about ice cream for the 200th time. And I'm trying to force my perspective on Sadie or Sean and like she's not changing.

So then I need to tweak something about how I'm going about this conversation. And then you're like off to the races and there's something really exciting about having the agency to do that. You know? I love that. That's so good. I'm so interested in like you're in nine months of being ghosted and then sending the poem because that again like that's fighting for something committing to something even whenever she's not showing you that like she's interested. How do you encourage people like when to know it's worth committing to and fighting for and then when is it time to go okay it's not working, you know. Adding advice from Andrew, this is scary ground. I would say okay so it wasn't like she. it was not a complete ghost.

So I would send, you know, a handful of text messages, maybe like four or five, and then she would respond to one. And I'd be like, game on, baby, clock reset. Like, she's still, we're still in the game. Would there be like a conversation from there? Would it just be like a one text? One off, dude.

I mean, maybe the occasional conversation. But this is before you could like a message or hard a message. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Or even see that it was like red. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is, there's a lot of context that's important.

And I don't think the door is ever, like, completely closed. I wasn't trying to force something that, that wasn't there. It was more like, hey, this is just an exploration. We're not together, and so I'm not top of mind, which I'm fine with. I also, admittedly, maybe we both were, you know, entertaining different options just to, like, see. We weren't dating.

No, we weren't dating. Yeah, fair. And it was just, it was just kind of like, okay, does this spark something like, Sean and I had in a similar way? and it was always no. And so I just kept thinking about our interactions and how I really felt like Sean and I could make it go to the distance because the smile that she does to me. I love that smile.

And I was like, dang, let me just keep going. And then if she ever says, no, I'm not interested, then you have to respect that. But I'm going to give it my best. And then so I wrote several poems. That was the one. and then you finally responded. And then it was like, pretty much when we started dating,

we both had made it past the chameleon phase, as I call it, where I don't know if you guys did this dating, where you morph into who you think the other person wants you to be. And I think that's really what helped us get to the point where we were mature enough to date, where it was like, hey, we're just going to be who we are. And if this works and we can take the distance, then great. Like, praise God.

I even remember having that conversation on like that date that we went, on in Nashville, which was our second date. I remember us having, I got in the car from the airport when he picked me up. And I don't think we said anything. It was like, hi. And then we just like rode in silence. And it was, but it was so peaceful. And I remember having a conversation that day of like, we've flown both of us across

the country for each other. This is our second time ever being together. I'm just going to be me. You're just going to be you. If this works, this is beautiful. But like, there's nothing to lose here. That's awesome. And it was so freeing.

That's awesome. One thing that I've learned is that consistent love really changes people's lives. Not just big, dramatic moments, but steady support and people who keep showing up over and over again. And that's why I'm so thankful for the work that Love One International is doing in Uganda. They're helping provide life-saving nutrition and medical care for children facing severe amount of nutrition. And for so many of these kids, that care is literally the difference between life and death. What I love most is that they stay with these families through the full, journey of recovery. So they walk with kids from diagnosis all the way back to health. And that is

a kind of care that takes commitment. That's why I love the Love Club. And that's what it's all about. So for just $20 a month, you can help support the ongoing medical and nutritional care these children need every single day. And right now when you join the Love Club, you'll also receive an exclusive Love Club hat, which I have right here. And one of the last few free copies of my devotional book, How to Put Love First. This is one of those missions that really stays with you because the lives being changed are so real. Y'all, I love what Love One does so much. First of all, I love the family behind it.

They're just the most amazing people with the most genuine hearts. And then also I've seen kids with malnutrition in other countries. And it is the most devastating thing in knowing that you can literally get $20 and save kids' lives. It's just an absolute no-brainer. So please be a part of this. You're not just signing up for something. You're helping save lives month after month.

Join the Love Club today and become the heartbeat of the Love One mission. visit love one international.org slash woe. Again, that's love one international.org slash woe. That's why we usually say date someone for like six months because of the chameleon. Because you can, for a period of time, you can be who they want even. At some point, you know, things might hit the fan and then you actually see that you're just kind of putting on a facade in that element. Yeah, that's so good. That's such a good point, too, because I remember, like, riding in the car with you at times, and it's like you're not saying anything.

And that's such a peaceful feeling, knowing that you can, like, sit with someone and you don't have to say anything or fill the space. I think that's when you know, like, this is a good thing. Yeah, because there can be awkward silences or there can be just peaceful silences. And I think, like, whatever that feeling is, is a big tell in some ways. You're just totally comfortable being where you're at. I love that. You say that y'all have, so the last four years you've been working on the book. Yeah.

Do you feel like it's Because I feel like we We wrote a book A couple years ago Called How to Put Love First But writing a book I feel like it does keep you accountable So do you feel like the last four years

The idea of always thinking about being Committed to something And Committal like that that helped keep you accountable You kind of talk about like Where it was like Yeah towards like You're like

I'm writing a book and being committed And I'm feeling like I want to get out of this thing But I'm going to stick with it I mean, yes, I feel like ever since we started writing the book, we've been seeing anything that relates to commitment just in the universe pretty much. But I personally remember it the most when we signed up to do this crazy show. I was just about to ask you about that. And I remember thinking, because that was, we filmed it last summer and it came out this past fall. And I remember thinking, we're about to launch a book called The Courage to Commit.

And each day I was like, I just want to quit. but I can't do that. Wow. And yes, I mean, we've, especially like writing about each aspect of our lives, it's just been a good, like, audit for us to say, like, how are we doing in these areas? And we have a lot of places to improve, but. But it's also fun to, I don't know how you guys have felt when you wrote the book. You, like, kind of see the world through that lens of what you're writing from.

So there's, like, I'll have read books or see movies or articles, and it's like, I'm, even this constant list of, oh my gosh, that plugs in perfectly. By the way, you just made me think of a story if you don't mind me sharing about it's a Jesus story. Well, it's like, talk about a guy who could commit. Like that guy, he was pretty committed to the mission. Yes. Well, yeah.

Okay, so, but I heard this, I heard this story. I thought about another guy. No, this was crazy because, like, I'm just going to speak purely from the historical standpoint of Jesus. Like, who was he in the timeline of history? Because I heard this story about this guy, I think, I'm not. a butcher's name, Sabbath, Sabathi Zephy, have you heard this name? So this was like medieval ages, maybe 1400s, 1500s. Like, the Jewish people literally thought he was the Messiah.

This guy was like, he was so impressive, such an interesting prophet, like, would kind of do the things that people thought a Messiah would do. And then when it came down to it, like, he gets called into this, the, um, the emperor's room, like, of the, shoot, what's the people group in the middle east. This is your story. You got a lot of it? Yeah. No, not the Romans.

It was a little Turkish, like this Turkish emperor brings him in. He's like, okay, it's kind of like time to put your feet to the fire. How committed to this bit of the Messiah are you? And he says, if you die and come back to life, then we'll like, I'll convert and you'll be my Messiah. If not, then if you're not going to do this, then I'm going to put you to death. And he was like, well, can I just turn around and walk away from this altogether and, like, just admit that I'm not what I'm saying I am. And so that's what he ended up doing because he's like, I'm not going to die for this cause.

And just made me think of Jesus. Like, that dude, it was a really interesting contrast of just like literally historically, the guy died for what he was convicted. Like, he died for what he said he was going to do. And I think there's something interesting there to like learn from as far as. seeing it all the way through. Yeah. That's a story in Acts too, yeah, when the Pharisees are looking at the disciples. It's one of my favorite stories.

And the guys like, you know, if you, what's the story? If you find yourself opposing them. Yeah, basically he's saying, you know, y'all don't worry about this Jesus movement because many people have said they're the Messiah and then they die off and then the movement dies. And he says, but if this is the Messiah, then he says then you won't be able to stop it. and you'll actually find yourself fighting against God. And it's so cool when you think about that

because they were talking about these other movements of people like that, and they would die off. And, you know, they'd have a thousand or so followers and the movement would die. Yet Jesus had these 12 disciples. Then it was, you know, the 2,000 in Acts, and there were thousands more and thousands more. And now here, there's like, what,

two billion Christians in the world? And you just think about that, like, historically, like, okay, it must be God. Like that's the only, why would we still be talking about this? You know, why would we still be changed by it? Still be, because, yeah, like you said, seeing it through. And that's like Jesus on the cross, like, why are you forsaking me, Lord? But then getting it through.

And even like, oh, sorry. I was just going to say his prayer. Like, if this can pass, let it pass. But God was like, no, this is my will. 100%. And I don't know if these other people who were Messiah-like figures died. No one else did it like Jesus. You know, and to me, just from a sequence of events, historical standpoint, I'm like, wow, that's pretty convincing.

Yeah. It's so true, though, like, I love that you put, like, the courage to commit, because it is, like, a courageous thing. Like, Jesus in the garden praying, praying, like, crying, like, blood's coming out. He's, like, so stressed, like, so anxious. Like, can I please not do this if there's any other way? And then he says, yet, if it's your will, then let it be done. And he always kept that willingness to commit. It's like, if this is it, I'll do it.

But there's another way. Let me do it any other way. And then obviously, you know, that's the way that the Lord had, which is, you know, at the time, it's like, why it had it had to be that way? And then you see why, because, like, we still have eternal life because of it. But I think about even the courage. I mean, I don't know. This is obviously not compared to the courage of the cross. But thinking about the show y'all did.

Because people say to me, they're like, say, do you. You should do special forces. You should do it. Like, are you crazy? Like, I might, I would do it if y'all gave me a true pep talk. But I, you, I was so scared. If you do it, we were doing it together. Yeah, we have to do it together.

We had to do it. No, because this is what, I remember the first time someone brought it up to me. They're like, you should do it. And I was like, that would be me signing myself out to be literally terrified for however long the show films. And I hate feeling that scared. Like, why do I want to do that? myself other than, you know, the satisfaction of overcoming. But how did y'all have the courage to

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That's Primally Pure, P-R-I-M-A-L-L-Y-P-U-R-E. Dot com. Use the code Woe at checkout for 15% off your order. I would say that's exactly why I did it. I hate the feeling of fear. Like, I hate it so much. And ever since becoming a parent, I find myself sometimes like going into a black hole of fear. And so prayer and faith and like God has really helped that when you have to like release that.

But and I feel like I've gotten really good at controlling fear. But there is there's always been in the back of my head this idea of like, but what if I was faced with like my biggest fear? And what like what will come out? And we've always talked about like we tried to explore. exploit our weaknesses to see like what they are so we can get better at them. And so when I did the show, I truly, I wanted to see if I could control fear. And make like see if it was an active choice. And I was really that it empowered me because there were so many fears that I did face that completely unfazed me. And I just thought I thought it was a very empowering experience. And the

the guys who coach you through it, the Navy SEALs and the Special Forces guys, they find your weaknesses so quickly and they know individually what they are and like to hear them and rely on them as mentors and like to be coached through it and to find strength through different things. I thought it was like the coolest experience. I didn't love the last day. The last day like sucks. But it was this test of like how well can you control your mind.

And as a parent, it just, I left with a lot more confidence than I went in with. So I think you should do it. inspiring. I do love the aspect to being coach through things and I appreciate that they're there to help, like, shape you. It's like the gas mask things, like those things. I'm just like, holy cow, I would feel so afraid. But it's okay. Yeah. You got to overcome. This is good. Yeah. I think about, like, I don't know where, if you guys are like me, but I feel like I get fearful or scared when I don't feel like I'm ready for something or cut out for something. Yes, totally. And I feel like what I learned in that show and in other areas of life is you don't feel ready before you jump into something.

Like you jump into something and then that kind of makes you ready. And obviously, you know, don't be reckless with that. But there's an aspect of trust that goes with it. And I think about the Marines who were our coaches in that situation. And like when they run, when they walk into the recruiter's office, they sign the paperwork. And on that day, they become a Marine. You know, it's like, sweet. Okay.

You get to wear the uniform. But they haven't done. anything yet. Yeah, but there's a gap between who they are now and what it takes to be a Marine, you know, to have a heart of Marine and have the preparation of a Marine. And so then it's like this process of, okay, you jumped in and now it's the refinement, sanctification process of becoming that fully. And it's kind of an exciting thing to say, okay, we're not ready at the beginning, but hopefully at the end of this show or at the end of this career, I'll have learned something and progressed and grown in a different way.

And that was definitely our experience. I will say too, just like knowing you guys, you should do the show. Because I also think it's not like a faith-based show, obviously. It's like a heavy hitter Fox show where like it's anybody. But I do think if you have a very strong faith, it is very obvious that it is such a leg up. Wow.

Because to see people so crippled by, just material things on that show that don't have something bigger to give their control to and lean on was very obvious. And for us, I just remember we would like, Sarah, the Lord's Prayer before we tucked into our little bunks at night. And we'd wake up and be like, thank you God for this beautiful day. And we'd be out there talking about the sunrise. And they're like, are you crazy? I'm like, it's a beautiful day. Like, this is wonderful. Like, there's nothing that can, this is a show. There's nothing that can shake us. and in my brain going being tortured underwater.

I'm like singing. I do think he's asleep. I would totally be doing that. You would for sure do better than Christian. I would do it. Yeah, she would do better than. Women tend to do better at the show. I think mentally I would maybe do better.

But physically, I would struggle. I mean, this is not, this is not, you know. I think I would be strong mentally. I'm not saying you would be strong, but like, I feel like. That actually leads me into my next question. Okay, I'll stop there. No, that was... You would, like, I would be toast.

I'm even scared just, like, running a mile with the backpack. I can't even run a mile without the backpack. We had people peeing their pants out there mid-challenge. It was, like, it was total carnage. I will say, men do better on that show physically. Yeah. I mean, because everybody has to carry the same weight and it's all equal. But I will say there is a harder aspect, historically speaking, on that show,

for men to be submissive to, like, the powers. and I've actually noticed that when we've watched, we've talked about that. The thing I would struggle with would be, I just think I would like laugh or smile if I was just getting like cussed out. I thought so too, bro. I thought so too, but then they're like actually yelling you. It's actually real. And then it becomes like, there's no, like, you don't feel like the impulse to like smirk or. You do.

And then it very quickly, you do it once. And you're like, I'm not going to do that again. I would just feel like. Even like them putting the bag over your head and taking you to interrogate, you. you like, who? I said if I had a bag and then I took it off and someone's like, you bleeping, I feel like, I feel like, I thought it was all a joke.

I thought it was all a joke and I thought I was going to have to like, you know, play serious. And then they actually are yelling at you and spitting in your face. And it took me right back to like sports where I just, I don't know how you were with the coaches, but I would always snap, like, I'm snapping into attention.

I'm listening. Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. Like it also comes across very much like a show. Yeah. But it's not in the sense of it is a, full start to finish experience with no break that happens to be filmed. Because you're not doing interviews during the day.

No. It's like when it, the second it starts, you are in the military. Oof. Yeah. And there's no off time. There's no cut and wait for sound. Like, you're just in it. It depends on the season, but ours is 10. Wow.

You have to do it. That's awesome. Okay, I'm inspired. I have a question on the coaching aspect. So right now, We're just seeing this with our kids. Like, Honey has started gymnastics. She loves gymnastics.

And she's really good at it. I know. I'm proud. Yesterday she was the example cartwheel for the class. Wow. She was so cute. She was like, they said, honey, we need you for a second. Like, she loved that they called on her.

And, like, they used her as the example for the new kids because she's very technical and very good. She's also tiny. Like, she's very built for it. But one thing I say to her is like, you have to have a strong mind because I see her God-given ability in her body. But mentally, I mean, she's only five, but I just see so much, I mean, even like already complaining like I'm tired or this or that or fear. Looking back like or even how are you doing for your kids like from two athletes, your parenting kids who I'm sure, you know, have those abilities. like how do you teach them to have a strong mind you know what what's your encouragement to them encourage and the commitment because you said you like over committed to gymnastics where is that

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Go to Shopify.com slash woe. Again, that's Shopify.com slash woe. We actually just interviewed my parents on this of like, what was your strategy growing up when I was growing up. And my parent's strategy that I feel like was very similar to your parents and we're doing for our kids is with absolutely no activity, you are 100% perfect, perfect, valued love. as you are. Like you don't need to go earn anything. And we have started just this idea of showing them everything. And then when they lock into something, we are their biggest cheerleaders.

But I would say with our kids, we've started to notice things that they're like locking in on that they love and that they've found a passion for. And we're, I don't know, we're not, we're not in the pushing you to be your best yet. I think, I think one of the, I think one of of the greatest things kids can find in their life are great coaches. But I think letting coaches be coaches and parents be parents is very, very important. But I don't know. We've dealt with it in some capacity with like our four-year-old. We'll sign up for T-ball because he's so excited, but then he's like, I don't want to go. Yeah. But then I want to go the next week, but then I don't want to go the week after that. And it's like, how do you paint that line?

Yeah. I would say different phases for different For sure. A couple paradoxes that we had to grapple with in writing a book about commitment is, one, there is a time to, not everything is worth committing to. There is a time to uncommit from something. It's important to have grace with yourself along the way because you will make mistakes and whatever path you're walking down. But then another one that we've talked about in regards to to use sports is like you can't commit for somebody else. You know what I'm saying? I can't say my kid's going to be an Olympic gymnast. That's just not how it works.

So it's been a fun process and filter to kind of like see our kids. What are they interested in? Our four-year-old loves motorcross. So like he'll wake up and he just... The head shake? He's the one with stitches. Yeah, really.

A lot of stitches. But it's like, you know, he's into that. But there's different like exposure levels for a four-year-old, you know, we're not going to, hey, we're going to ride our motorcycle for an hour or day for practice. It's like, that's not age-appropriate. So it's kind of, it's kind of,

kind of like solely introducing him, titrating like the ideas of commitment along the way as they age. I will say as like a strictly speaking from a coaching perspective, like having seen thousands of girls and their parents over the years in gymnastics in particular, this is the only like data research I have from hands on is every time I saw a parent try to convince their child of just go one more. more time, just go back, try a little harder, do a little better. It never worked out in a long run, ever. And I have seen God-given, talented athletes come into the gym who don't love it. Yeah. And they go on to do something else that they find a greater passion in that they become successful in because they loved it so much and they worked hard enough and stuck with it. And I have seen so many kids in gymnastics who are not God-gifted, just like in the talent capacity. But they love it so much that they outlast anybody who has that ability.

Yeah. And so I think from the parenting perspective, it's so hard when it's your own children, because we've seen it as well where I'm like, you have such potential. But it's also not my job. Yeah. To coach that. And to force it, yeah. It's great advice.

It's so good. I love that. Because, yeah, I mean, whenever Honey did T-ball did not. like it. Hey, I mean, literally she's out there playing in the dirt, you know, the whole thing. And we're like, okay, we're going to finish the season. We're not going to play next year, you know. But then there's this thing with gymnastics where she loves it and she's good at it. But it's the same with probably your little boy who's like one week she wants to go once she doesn't want to go. And it's like, well, we need to, you know, we committed to it. If we're in town, we're going to

go. If we're not in town, we don't have to go, that kind of thing. But like sticking with something because I think also like sports taught me, I mean, one of the things my parents always did was like, you know, you can quit a sport after season. Like you're not going to quit on your team mid-season. Hard with gymnastics. Yeah, seriously. Yeah, that is true. We don't know the gymnastics world yet.

I mean, we're so new to it, you know? But for me, like, growing up was like basketball track, tennis, you know, where it's like, let's finish the season and then you don't have to go back the next year. And I do think, like, I've seen just adults, like, who have that life lesson of, like, committing to a team. It's very helpful in adulthood when you have jobs and you have people because there are people who don't understand the effects of quitting and what it does to other people. And you see people just go, I'm out and they just leave. And it's like, oh, you just put everybody in a really hard position. Not that you can't leave. Of course, everybody has to

have the grace and the freedom to leave things, but you can leave things well. And I think that you learn that. You can learn that in sports. And parenting does matter. We've been leaning on this this idea with our kids at the moment. I think, again, age is really important. Also, in gymnastics, there is no season, so quitting is very hard. There's no, like, there is never a good time to quit because you're always a part of a team, but it's still solo and there's no off season. So you never know.

But the thing that we're leaning on with our kids is, I don't even know where this came from, but it came out of my mouth at one point, and we've just owned it, is God has hidden treasures in your heart. one of my treasures was gymnastics. And I said it's the adventure of life to now go try to find them. But if you find them, you have to protect them. That's not my job. It's yours.

It's good. And so with, say, Drew, Drew has a love of rock climbing, our six-year-old girl. And she'll come home one day and she'll be complaining of like, oh, I don't want to go next week. And in my head, I'm like, you've told me this is a treasure. I'm not going to say you can't go. But, and I won't say that out loud, but I'll be like, okay, why? Like, what is the reason? And actually trying to get to the root of, is this no longer a treasure?

Because you told me it was. But trying to put it 100% on the kid and saying, it's not my job to tell you to go, but you have to decide if this treasure is worth protecting or not. And so we've tried to, it's. so hard as a parent? And they're so little. You also want to be like, you can't quit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, quit her. It's hard. Well, I think, like, yesterday was a really cool moment for Honey doing that cartwheel example, because they are so little. So this is just fun.

I mean, she's literally in, like, beginner tumbling fun. And she's just done it because it's been fun. All of her friends are doing it. I signed her up for the summer because Haven finally hit the age of three where she can join, and she's been dying all year to join Honey, and she could do it as of June 1st. So we're like, okay, perfect. Y'all can do it together, honey, you can have Haven. And it was like a new joy for Honey. Like all of a sudden it was exciting as she ran in holding Haven's hand and then she got to do the example. And it was a cool learning lesson of like, honey, you've worked so hard for so long and look at it paying off. You got to teach your sister today. You got to show everybody your cartwheel. And like,

you don't get that many moments at that age to like show what hard work is paying off. It's like, look what you've learned throughout, you know, a year of having fun. And so yeah, I mean, it's just hard and I don't know that I think we probably put more weight on it than even we should because I was not the athlete to y'all's level but just growing up an athlete it shaped me so much I'm so grateful for it and I'm like oh I want to help in my kids but then not over you know step yeah I think I think for me it's just more so that idea of I think I think like we talk about with commitment the whole time it's like I think in life you can be so flippant with things. It's like you can date who you want to date, but then you can get out of it.

You can start this thing, but you don't have to finish it. And I do think there is something about like, and granted, yeah, our kids are three and five. So it's like, there is a fine line to it, but there is something that I do think you learn at a young age of how your choices do affect other people. And gymnastics might be a little different. But there is, there are consequences for decisions that you choose to make on the commitment side of things to where, like you just talked about. If you do, if you are flipping with things, you don't realize how your decisions do impact other people. And I think that trying to instill that in kids from a young age, by not being very overbearing, I do think it's super important. I think y'all said this and maybe one of your

interviews are, maybe it's written blankly in the book, but how like commitment is something, so many people fear, but commitment like unlocks like the greatest blessing and the freedom. And it's so cool that y'all wrote on this. So important. I know it was four years, but four years of commitment worth it. This book is available everywhere books are sold, I'm sure. And it's out now that you're listening to this podcast. So everybody go look up the courage to commit. Is that an audio too? Yeah. Okay. And audio, did y'all read it? Yeah. That's awesome. I'm an audio listener and when the author reads it, it's the best. You're like, oh gosh. It was crazy. It was so painful. It's hard. But you mess up like a single word. A single word. And your brain can read all the words.

Your mouth can't. Exactly. The ennecernation of it. Yeah. Exactly. Well, go get it anywhere of books are sold. Thank you all so much for coming to Westmore Road. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.