WHOA That's Good Podcast - You Don't Have to Be Who Others Say You Are | Sadie Robertson Huff & for KING & COUNTRY

Episode Date: April 6, 2022

Hit Christian music duo for KING & COUNTRY tell Sadie their story of going from humble beginnings in Australia to record labels in Nashville. Joel and Luke Smallbone discuss not discounting the way your past shapes you, when to give to those in need, and the miracle behind creating something personal. They also reveal the secret that's kept them grounded throughout their music careers and offer advice on how to avoid becoming the person everyone says you are when that's not who God says you are. Their hope-filled album “What Are We Waiting For?” is available now. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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good to see y'all. I really am so excited to have y'all on the piecast and I know you'll have a new album out called What Are We Waiting For. It's so good. But before we get to that, I have to shout out some of y'all's other stuff, but it's actually on this album too, the song together. So Mia Christian love this song and we always do edit and let me just tell you we are not great singers, but we have this thing when that song comes on in the car and we do this head turn. It's like, if we fall, we fall together. So we love it. We love you guys and everything that y'all do. And so excited to have y'all talk about this. Before we get to that, even, I have to ask you the question

that I ask everyone on the world that's a good podcast. And I know it's an intimidating question. And I'll hear it from both of y'all. So we get double the advice today. But what is one of the best pieces of advice that you've ever been given? I always start out with some heavy hitters there, Sadie, which we are always grateful for. Best pieces of advice, you know, best piece of advice is interesting because I think that's always kind of changing because I think the best piece of advice to you right now, maybe very

different than what it was, 10 years ago or 10 years in the future. But I will tell you a story. So I played basketball in high school and I had a friend of mine come to me and he said, hey, can I borrow $70 from my phone bill? And I was like, $70 from me. I was like, go ask your parents for I knew his parents

Is that was a dentist? I was like I know his parents have 70 dollars Well, so I kind of push back a little bit and he kind of said man Well, we're we're kind of at odds right now. There's some things going and he came from a very difficult upbringing You know it so it says and so he I said well Let me think about this before I lend you the money Because I'd always heard you don't you the money, because that always hurt. You don't lend friends money, you know, in per se, because it gets funky, right? And then if you have expectations for them to pay you back and all that stuff, so I actually

went to my dad. I was like, Dad, I know that this is not that big of a deal. And I've read some books on the matter. And people have all these wide range of ideas of what you shouldn't do when it comes to money and lending money to friends. And I don't think he probably remembers this conversation or anything. He just literally turned to me and he said, look, if you can help people, you do it. And it was actually a very profound thing for me. And look, I understand there's certain circumstances

where helping people may be hurting, we all are aware of there's certain circumstances where actually the right thing to do is say, I can't. But when it comes to the ability to help someone in need, most of the time within the realm of normal circumstances, we should be people looking to help versus looking to say no. Anyway, I've tried to apply that a little bit to my life. That comment has stuck with me. Is it the greatest advice I've ever been given? Who knows? But when

it comes to the way that I'm living life right now, I think it's very applicable and very important and very meaningful to me. It's so good. Honestly, that is so profound. And I think that a lot of times some of the best pieces of advice that we are given is some of the simplest pieces of advice, right? I mean, there's obviously so many things that people have told me that are these like really good quotes or really deep thoughts or really pivotal moments in life. But it's some of those really short punches that your dad says to

you or your mom or a friend, a cousin, a mentor, and those are the things that really stick with you and you begin to see it in everything that you do in life. And it's so true. I mean, there are times even that I overthink things like that as well, like, I mean, just for instance, like there's times where you'll see someone homeless on the side of the road and like Everything and you wants to help wants to give them something and because I've had a background Where I've had to have a lot of security Sometimes in my mind I'll get nervous like oh, well, is this a dangerous thing if I if I go and give money or am I putting myself in a dangerous situation

and every time like I have and I'm putting myself in a dangerous situation. And every time like I have stepped out and given the money or done the thing, given them food, like it's always been a beautiful thing. And even though the day I remember I was driving up and there was this guy on the side of the road and I just had this conviction to give him some money. And then of course the fear started, well,

you know, what if this happens or what if that happens. And so I passed him and then I felt so convicted. So I turned around and I gave him, you know, just $20 and he just was so overwhelmed and he said, God bless you. Thank you so much. Would God just give you every desire of your heart and started just like preaching like goodness over me from like God. And I was man here I am and I'm trying to make up every excuse to not inconvenience myself when this guy was such a blessing to me you know and so I love that piece of advice that's true for me right now and I'm taking that with me

I think we might have lost Joel and he might be coming in here and there. So I'll kind of ask this to both of you guys, but I want to hear a little bit about your upbringing because I know Y'all's upbringing just from knowing y'all, but it's such a cool story, just how y'all got started a family of musicians. And so tell me a little bit about, or give us a picture of what life looks like and y'all's home growing up.

Yeah, Sadie, our family growing up, so Luke and I originally from Australia, Sydney, Australia to be precise. And people often ask us, okay, well, tell us about how you got into music, how did you work together as brothers and one of the things we often say is like, music even chose us more than in some ways.

We chose music in that our dad was a concert promoter in Australia. So he would bring bands and artists from America to Australia. And so our first memories were like going to rock shows or looking at vinyl 45 discs and artwork. And so we were sort of inundated with music and it was only though when we sort of came to the States, that had lost a lot of money in Australia. So we moved, Mum and Dad decided we should move to

Nashville, Tennessee, six kids, one on the way and packed up 16 suitcases and moved halfway around the world and kind of restarted life. We got over here, dad lost his job, we didn't have insurance, we're sleeping on beds made out of clothes, the whole nine yards, and ultimately walked through sort of this journey of faith that led to our sister, Rebecca and James, starting to do music, and ultimately Luke and I, in a very real way through her career, experiencing the impact of music, sort of falling in love with music in different ways, and this is a very long story short version, but that was ultimately the platform

that gave Luke and I the opportunity to step into music together. Yeah, so cool. It's so cool to hear about Y'all's background. You know, you kind of mentioned Y'all, you still look at the vinyl and the artwork and stuff like this. And one thing that is very obvious about Y'all's music

is your super creative. Like if you've ever been to a 4K country concert, you know this about y'all. Y'all are so creative and if you haven't been, you need to go because there's so much fun and just such a cool thing to experience. But y'all are banging on all types of instruments and your outfits always look cool and your music videos are awesome and you have such a cool sound. Like so creative. Do y' all think that some of that upbringing with the stuff that y'all were seeing and looking at and learning at a young age has kind of made y'all the creatives that y'all are were your parents creative or where do y'all kind of see that coming from in your life? Well we talked a little bit before we went on air but you said you were

talking about your daughter and just the elements that she's around, even currently, she's into a lot of different things, she's climbing, she's talking, she's trying to do all these things. And one of the things I've always said about music is you'll be amazed at what happens with children that are exposed to things before they can even remember what they're actually being exposed to. Hence, for us, we were in and around music for years and years and years before we ever really realized what music was.

I think you'd be amazed at what that does to your, you know, I remember as a very young poet, you know, child, I would listen to songs and I would go, why did they do that on the chorus? Why didn't they do, why didn't they go that direction? Why didn't the melody do this? Well, where does that come from? Well, I can't tell you, but I have been around music my entire life. And I've been around, you know, at least what I think was before I was really cognitant of what was going on. Good music. Music that spoke to me, music that impacted my soul. And so, I sometimes think that you discredit the things that happen in these very early childhood moments. I also think that you discredit just the strength of DNA. That you know, you know,

usually owls dad would always say that you know music kind of skipped him to a degree, but my but his his mother and her mother, I mean they could play the violin, they could do all these different, they very complicated musical stuff. And so you never know where some of these things come from. And you know in some cases I think it's a modern version of miracles when you think of creativity. You know people walk into a room, they have a blank page and somehow you usually walk and there's something that comes from that. Well where does it come from? It's one of the only things in this world that computer can't control. Computers can control what you tell it to. They can mix different things together. They can overlay. But when you start with nothing and with something that is something that a computer cannot do. And I think it's a, you know, in the

Western world, it's difficult to see miracles. I think creativity is one of those tangible places that you can see it almost always. Wow, that is so powerful. That's so true and such a good thing to think about. Honestly, I like thinking about it as a DNA thing because then I feel better about myself that I can't play any instruments because I'm like, well, my parents can't, my grandparents can't, we're just not a musical family. We have other giftings, but it's so cool that you put it like that because it is a miracle. That is a miraculous thing that happens. Luke, I want to ask you something on that note because I feel like there are times where any creative, any creative has probably experiences.

I feel like just that writer's block or that creative block where you know, you write an album and you get to the seventh song and you're like, what's next or maybe you just flow all the time. But what do you do in those moments when you have that fear of what's my next thing? Or where is this going? Or you sit there in the blank page, stays blank for longer than you thought it would. What do those moments look like for you and how do you kind of get past those times? Well, I would say this. What do those moments look like for you and how do you kind of get past those times?

Well, I would say this. I mean, look, if you only are ever gonna write songs, write poetry, write books when you feel like writing, you'll probably never really write things, you know, because at moments, inspiration does come, and there are the rare times where inspiration comes and you can write a song in a few hours. But most of the time time it's not that.

Most of the time it's over days, it's over weeks. And I think for creatives it's the discipline to actually show up. It's the discipline of, okay, my writing session or my painting session or my, you know, book writing moment starts at 10 a.m. and I'm going to finish it whatever time you decide to finish. You're actually there. You're actually engaged and you're actually doing it because if you're always just waiting for inspiration, if you're always just waiting for the feeling, there's a great chance it won't come. The amount of times when I've shown up for both Joel and I that we've shown up to a writing session to write music and you're like, I don't feel like writing music at all.

But yet something significant happens. Or there's also the moments where you go, I don't feel like writing music, and you don't really contribute that much, but the other person that you're in the room with inspires you. And then all of a sudden, you're right there with them. You're engaged. And so I think a lot of it has to do with if you're waiting for writing the inspiration to come. There's a great chance it won't. But if you at least show up and commit yourself to I'm going to give it everything I got, you're probably gonna stumble upon something and then you may be surprised what that trigger is tomorrow,

what that trigger is in you, you know, two weeks from now, where you go, well, that day when I didn't really have anything, there was something that I wrote that was interesting, that you just, creativity has a very unique way of coming and going and I would say you know to prevent or overcome riders buckets that block it's the commitment to you know putting one foot in front of the other it's the commitment to showing up and and actually trying. That's so good and honestly that advice goes for so many different things in life. I mean that goes

for even working out. You know, there's very little times you're going to feel like getting up at seven in the morning and going and working out, you know, but it takes commitment. It takes discipline. And then over time, you see that you get stronger, you know, it might not feel like it in the moment, but you do. There's that same sense of work, you know, every day when you're showing up for the Monday moments It might not feel good. It might not feel like you want to but that commitment and that discipline over time Leads you to great things and I think because of social media We have this world where people I wrote about this yesterday. It's like we don't see the process of things We just see the end of things, you know, we see the result of things

So we see the end of things. You know, we see the result of things. So we see the album come out, but you don't see the process of the times that y'all showed up and had to work through those moments. And I think because we only see the result, we sometimes stumble into being a generation who just wants results and doesn't want that commitment, doesn't want that dedication. But even though the dedication and the commitment is hard, that's what makes the results like so worth it and so awesome and so beautiful and so I love that you spoke to that because I think that's something that you know, we as a people just need to hear. Joel, I want to talk to you about just that togetherness that you all have as brothers. Obviously in the word it talks about how two are better than one, you know, talks about how if a man stumbles and has no one to pick him up, pity the man,

but you guys have had each other throughout everything you've been able to do through touring, through riding through all this, and I'm sure that there are a million great things to that, and I'm sure there are some hard things to that. Kind of speak to the pros and the cons maybe a little bit on what are the hard things with working so closely with someone having a partner but what are the benefits of working with someone like a brother and even in Y'all's case a brother and what Y'all been able to do together? Yeah well I do think we can trade a lot of notes this 80 and the fact that you know you work very closely with your siblings, you work

very closely with your parents. And there's maybe we could flip the question around and ask you the same one, but it does come with its complications for sure, but Luke says well, it's like you really, you always have to show up at Thanksgiving with one another. And I think what's beautiful is for us, similar to probably you, we grew up in sort of the family, business, dynamic, if you will. And so it taught us pretty key life principles like how to compromise with one another, how to understand each other's strengths and weaknesses, how to respond when someone's upset and angry. I mean, these things that you learn, we learned with Rebecca on the road, because dad needed a cheap labor and he had five songs and he came

the road crew. And so we learned it out on the road and we basically got to transplant all of that knowledge and understanding now to the band. But look, there's still moments, you know, we're a duo, we both sing, so who sings what parts? And there's a lot of opportunity to show a certain level of selflessness in this whole thing. And I think I'll say this too. You know, I love that too is better than one analogy or a biblical reference. I've used that a lot with Luke and I, with Mariah and me, with Luke and Courtney. But this, for King Country, Luke and I might be the ones out front. But even this album, like what are we waiting for? Touring, you mentioned, and so on. Like it's, it's us, it's our wives, it's our band,

it's the crew, I mean, you know, it's an army that makes this thing come together. And so there's so much to learn, I think not only as brothers, not only as husbands, but even just the way we lead this sort of group that is faking in country. So, it's a lot. Yeah, it's beautiful.

Yeah, it's so true. Team is everything. I am like the biggest team advocate. And I think some of that comes from even a sports background. Like if you play sports, you know that having a team is how you win. You don't win alone. Even if you're playing basketball or baseball

or football or anything or doubles tennis or even if you are playing single-signals, it's your team, it's your coach, it's your people. There's really really anything that anyone I can't even think of anything, even if it is a solo performance that anyone does alone, it's always a team. And but there's also such a part of this culture that is so individualistically minded, which is really sad because I feel like even if you look at Jesus Christ and his body and two is better than one,

and that we're all parts of the different parts of the same body, it's like, man, if we could just, and this record really talks to a lot of that as well, just being this kind of global, asking these global questions of, hey, can we relate to one another? Are we better together? Are we bolder and braver and stronger together? Or are we better apart from one another? Like, if we could just set aside some of these judgments and preconceived notions and differences and come together, man, I think that some of these judgments and preconceived notions and differences and come together, man, I think that we would see the world radically transformed, but we like our little individualistically mindset, you know, mindsets

that keep us sort of, I think keep us kind of isolated from other people in some ways. Yeah, it's so true. Honestly, that's so true. And it is sad because at the same time, that we do have a very individual, realistic thinking world. We also have a world that is kind of obsessed with the idea of relationships, but unwilling to sacrifice the things needed to be sacrificed in order to be in relationship.

And you kind of mentioned that word earlier of selflessness. And that is a lot of what it takes to be together. Because there's a lot of things that, you know, selfishly you want to happen that just won't work for the team, you know. And so I love that you mentioned that. And I love that you're mentioning your album because you're right. Everything we're talking about is leading us right into the album. And so take us to the place where we're out when you said we're writing this album. Was it very specific?

Were you like, this is what we're talking about? This is what we want to get across or were you all kind of just writing? And you're like, man, this is like a theme that we're saying. Was it already in the motion of, this is the message or were you writing songs and you found the message? What did that process look like?

Well I think that the songs are a little bit like chapters and books that but you but until you've written kind of the book you don't always necessarily know the ending. You may have concepts you may have ideas on how to get there but you know you you take people on a little bit of a journey. And I think for John, I look, we make albums pretty much every three years when notoriously slow. It's not usually a very smooth process. Where this time, we kind of, you know, two December's ago, so 2020, it was, hey, we're probably not going to be on the road very much for the next six months. Let's go in and let's make this, make this project. And the truth is, at that point, the pandemic was eight, nine, ten months into it. There's plenty of things to write about, you know, you start to realize that, you know, for, for Courtney and I, we've got kids who are getting older. You've got a world who was going through as Joel says, a, a global suffering in, and, with COVID.

You've got, you know, even as much as we're dealing with it just even today with the, the, the, the disunity that we feel globally. There's a lot of really very, very difficult things that, in some cases, for the last 30, 40 years, we're facing things now that have not been something that we've been confronted with. In my lifetime, this is the first time that you can really cognitively think, I'm not actually walking through what people would call a piece. We're in some cases, because of how small the world is, we may physically not be as an nation in America at war, but our world is, and our world has become very, very small

and has become very, very personal and close to us. And so when it comes to making music, you make music, you know, I said this to someone the other day, they said, well, you guys are writing a lot of songs about social issues. And the truth is, is social issues are just personal issues multiplied, multiplied by thousands, by millions. And so the things that you see in headlines are actually the things that we should be writing about, because that's what the world is going through. And so for us, there was not this, hey, the album is going to be called, what are we waiting for? But it is elements of, man, I'm witnessing hatred towards a brother.

I'm witnessing friends who have been friends for many, many years saying because if you disagree on X, Y, or Z, and we've had plenty of opportunities to disagree over the last several years, I'm not your friend anymore. And in some cases, over very trivial things in the grand scheme of things, but what you realize is it's the small things that are becoming multiplied, they're becoming massive issues. And so I don't think it's any surprise that in some cases when you even look at where we've come from racially, so many different things, it's because of how, it's the conditions

of our hearts, it's the conditions of our souls that have blown up to something much bigger. And so that is where,'s the hot beat behind this album is is speaking to these things because look, John, I hear saying we've got the answer, but I do think we were in touch with somebody who does have the answers. And part of this album is exploring what those answers look like here on earth. Yeah, well, it's beautiful. It's so good and honestly I think if we all didn't talk because we didn't think we had the answers, you know, how would we move forward, how would we get past some of these really hard things and I just

had to commend y'all for one right in the songs because these songs are awesome and they're so needed. And two, like actually reflecting in the album what you're saying, like y'all had such a beautiful diversity on this album and I loved listening to it. I love seeing even whenever you're posting on Instagram and I saw y'all did a song with Dante. I was like yes like went over, I saw you did the song with Kurt Franklin and Tori Kelly. It's like so exciting like these fun things and then also saw where you were talking about on your social media Luke about being a dad and some of the inspiration that that had and I was like had to go over to the album listen to the song so I've been trickling into

y'all's album just from y'all social media because I love the stories like you're right they're chapters in a book you want to hear you can't wait to hear and they're just amazing and so I don't want to ask the wrong person if one of y'all wrote this song but I'll ask Joel and if y'all can both speak into it But talk to me a little bit about the song relate because I think that's just a really good message for the time that we're in and just really beautifully written And so I want to hear a little bit about the backstory of that No, thank you, Seity, that's kind. Yeah, it was, it was, it was, relate was a bit of a gift, honestly. We sort of said that this album is three parts, just as far as topics are concerned, and you picked

up on some of them, you know, it's definitely a record about family, so songs like cheering you on about Luke's son or on song hero about our parents and so on. It's a spiritual record, which inherently that is sort of part of the Fakin Country DNA, but it's also very much as we've sort of touched on multiple times in this podcast. It's a global record and relate kind of touches on that sentiment very deeply.

And it was a gift that song. It was like Luke said, usually we're pining over lyrics and melodies and it's really, we'll do iteration after iteration of songs, but, but relate came really quickly. There was something remarkable about the group of people we were in the room with. So we wrote the song with a country writer named Josh Kerr, who we wrote, God only knows with, for a point of reference on our last record. And then a young lady by the name of Taylor Parks.

And she is a, she's a California girl, I think, or Texas born, California girl. Now, massive writer, I mean Ariana Grande and so on. She's collaborated with some pretty gifted people. And there was just something about these Australian guys, Taylor as a black woman, Josh Kerr as a country rider. We were coming together from these different places and different walks of life and different beliefs and finding commonality in it.

And so we actually got to sort of live out in the writer's room what the song was actually sort of written about. I remember turning the Taylor one point and saying, hey, is it okay? Like in your world, to say these sorts of things and she feels like absolutely. And so it feels like a bit of a hallmark for this album,

particularly on the global level of talking about what if we do set aside our prejudice and our judgments and so on and actually show up at the table with a bit of compassion. It's a bit of empathy like I'm reminded of what you said earlier in the podcast about just those little gut moments where you see someone on the side of the road and you're like I should buy them a meal or you know give them five dollars whatever it is or how how you interact with people on a day-to-day basis, can you actually relate to people that are different from you? I think that's the big question right now of the planet is like, can you relate if you don't see things in the same way? And argument would be, you can't, but I think you can. I think we can. That's good. It's so encouraging. And this whole album is just very hope-filled, which is what we need right now.

Like we need to be able to listen to something and it actually leave us feeling more hope than less. And the majority of things that we see on our phones every day are the opposite of that. You know, it's a very sad and destructive. And the reality is that is our reality right now. A lot of it is sad and destructive, but it's one of those things. It's like like well, do you just sit there and stay there and just say well

This is just how it is or do we fight for moving forward and you guys are fighting for moving forward and helping an army come up behind Also, I'm thankful for that But there are other songs that you've written that have been huge successes I was honestly on your YouTube page last night You know just prepping for the podcast listening to songs and I'm seeing things like 60 million, 80 million, all these huge numbers of views and listens and hearing your story, knowing y'all come from a family, from Australia, moving with 16 suitcases over here, not having a lot of gattles in the job, the whole thing. And now sitting here, years and years and years later, with families, with beautiful wives,

and families, and having such success, you know, what does that, what does that do to y'all? Like whenever you see that this is happening, does it humble you, does it make you feel overwhelmed? Does it make you want to keep going? Does it scare you? I mean, like what does that do to your heart because I know for me Just knowing where I am

Compared to what I come from it just blows my mind and makes me just totally dependent on God And I think some people see y'all and they don't think about the whole story just like we don't think about the process And they just see oh, they're just killing it. that just is normal for them and I would just guess it doesn't feel very normal and so what what does that do to y'all's hearts as you see just where God's taking y'all? Well we do need to at some point say we need to come back and do a woe that's good podcast but Luke and I will host the podcast and ask you all these questions because I feel like, because like, between the family similarities

and working with your siblings and your parents, and then, you know, this question too of like, what do you do when, you know, there are a lot of people looking to you as a voice, as an inspiration, as, you know, in our cases, musicians. And how does it sort of play on you? I think one area for Luke and me that was really helpful, not to go back once again to our early years, but we got to walk through, and maybe you did be parents, we got to walk through Rebecca's career and see the real high points and see the low points and everywhere in between and realize that this you can't build a life of, I mean, I suppose

monetarily you can, but you can't really build a life of being a public figure as far as if you're going to find yourself worth in it, because it changes, man. Like, musicians, we have a D-Day. There's a certain amount of time and influence that you have, and then it's on to the next person, and that's okay with Luke and me. We want to show up while it's our time. We want to do the best we can while it's our time, but I think we'll both be good to go, hey, this was a beautiful season, and we're gonna move on to something else

when our time does come. But I think the thing that holds us in the best stead with it is the grounding of family, is coming home and being able to just be still. That was something that the pandemic really showed us was, man, we were, I mean, we were rolling pretty hard for the last eight years in developing this band. And then we have this kind of intermission of sorts where we're able to sort of breathe and reflect and contemplate. And so I think even being still and slowing down, saying no, which is a powerful word, has enabled us to hopefully stay

grounded. But then also Luke said it well, was it yesterday Luke? He was like, we're not as famous as you think we are The here's the thing Sadie Robertson everything is around you, right? We're in a band called for King and Country and so you would be surprised how We can sort of hide behind the moniker a little bit and just be like well, it's the band thing and and we sort of go on living our own Live so I feel like we have it sort of made in the shade in some ways with how it's all happened. We can, Luke can, you know, hang out in Colombia and not feel too worried about being too bombarded.

And when someone does come up and say, get a, it's actually just a sweet thing versus like, I can't imagine being Justin Bieber or whatever, walking around and just, you know, having everyone, you know, notice you all the time. That would be pretty frightful. Yes, very true. And that is so interesting because yes, I guess because it is called for King and Country, it's not necessarily all his names, that is kind of like a nice little shade. You can kind of hide under that. And I do think that the grounding of family is key. I always say that as well. People say how did you not go crazy being a young person in the spotlight and go into LA for

a time and doing dance with the stars and all the things. And you know, part of me just wants to say first of I can see why people do go crazy because that is a lot and that is hard. And like if it was not for the grace of God and honestly my family around me, I don't know what my life would have looked like. And I think that so many people go about it alone. And that is when you tend to lose yourself, you know, because you begin to become who everybody tells you that you are instead of being anchored in who you know you are. And to be anchored in who you know you are, sometimes you need other voices also reminding you of who you are, what everybody's telling you who you should be or who they think you

are. And that you're not, and that you're not what you do, you know, you're who you are, but it's not just about what you're putting out into the world. Exactly. So true. So true. Lastly, I just want to ask you about the song priceless because I know it's not on this album, I know it's one

that y'all did in the past and you even had a movie come out about it which is so good and just the whole message of that. Really, I remember it honestly helping me so much with myself worth so much so that I did a YouTube video called priceless and I talked about your song and I talked about how kind of what we just talked about that I'm more than what I do and I'm more than a number that the guys had given or I'm more than the words or whatever and honestly like that message was just really pivotal for me and I just think it's crazy that it came from two guys, you know, because I think like a girl can say that all day long, but it was almost more powerful that it came from people

like y'all who are married, men, and just godly guys. It was honestly like, oh, like that's true, because before I had a husband who now speaks those things over me and loves me and adores me. You know, I didn't have that. You know, you just hear the guys of the world speaking and sometimes it's not very good. And so for godly men to sing over all these girls, what we all needed to hear was just very powerful. I want to ask y'all, just on that note, you know, having the wives that y'all have, how is that also

shaped just how you speak into women's lives? Because y'all are two men killing it, but you're so empowering of women. And I have been empowered by y'all as ministry and by y'all as songs. And so what is that kind of looks like and where does that place come from in your heart that gives you the desire to write those songs for specifically women? Well, let me say this first. It's really meaningful that you would recognize the fact that there are a lot of great women that share about these ideas and messages. I mean, every mum isn't stealing this in their child, right?

And there's a lot of great women like yourself, which are so needed, by the way, for younger women to just as a guide to be able to show them their way forward. But at the same time, by contrast, there's been this kind of really tragic gaping whole from men in our generation that aren't speaking to this. I think the subtle message we're putting forward as men is like, hey, you are your body or you are, you know, how the shape of your face or your curves or you are what you do versus, you know, you are, you are enough as you are. And so we, we really from the beginning, I mean from those early two, as I remember, that we all did together, we sort of have taken it upon ourselves as, you know, sons to a wonderful immigrant mother who is such a strong woman to brothers

to a powerful sister, two sisters, but with Rebecca championing so much relationally. And now as husbands to really strong for wives, we sort of said, hey, because of this beautiful world that we were raised up in, maybe we can offer some thoughts and ideas as to what it really means to be a woman, what it means to be a woman of God, if you will, and some of those ideas, look, you look back to Jesus Christ, and I think you can take some cues from him, because here's a guy who was born into a culture that really suppressed women, that really pushed women down, really segregated, separated. It was showvinistic culture as they come. And yet, this is the guy that, you know,

his first miracle turning water into wine was for his mum. And this is the guy that was funded by women. And this is the guy that was anointed three times by women. And this was the guy that, you know, when all his mates had left him, women were still there loving and consoling him. But this was, and when he rose back to life outrageously,

women were the first ones to tell the greatest news. He gave women a voice, he saw women, he didn't see them just as objects or sexual creatures, he saw them as divine, beautiful creatures, children, daughters of God. And so with that in mind, from the day that we toured together to today, it's been something that we've really done our best to champion and continue to share

because it just feels like the time is needed. And I hope other men, young men, like your husband and so on, will to proliferate this this idea of speaking to a woman's worth in a culture that's so keen on segregating and and we're not even segregating just just just suppressing women you know. It's good it's so good so helpful and honestly it's so true that that is how Jesus lived and that is how Jesus acted. And whenever you read the word and you read the story of Jesus and you see all the different women, not only he and air actor with, but he worked with and he healed and he spoke to

and he blessed and he even prophesied that all these things are like, wow, like what a great example of just... Catch this one, Sadie. The first person that Jesus ever told that he was the son of God too, was to a racial minority outcast with him. Wow. Like how cool is that?

It's crazy. I mean, it's the coolest thing. It's honestly the coolest thing ever. And I feel like that message has definitely gotten lost over the years. And I'm thankful that y'all are in fighting for it to come back and bring us back to that heart of Jesus. Luke, did you want to speak to that a little bit?

I was gonna say this, I mean, look, I think that you forget, I think a lot of times society is trying to say, who's superior? A men's bit better or women's better, and there's just like competition at the same time and you forget that God sees the invisible and the invisible is a soul and the soul is equal in every person and That to me is is the thing that we have to recognize is God is after souls. He's after people And he wants to he wants to cherish all of them. He doesn't cherish one more than the other.

It's like, in some cases, you're speaking of kids, it's the same thing. You look at that daughter of yours and you adore. You absolutely adore. If you have a little boy, you'll do the same thing. It's not that you look at one better than the other. Both are absolutely the most important, right? They're the greatest. And I think sometimes we forget, you cherish things that are important, that are precious to you, right? And without a woman, a mother for one, I mean, we wouldn't

be here. But so you forget that in some cases, it's important to cherish the things that are near and dear. And that's the way that I mean, I said, so we have you my wife. She's beautiful. She's wonderful. She's precious to me. They said, I'm not competing with her. I'm not trying to take her place. She's not trying to take mine. But it takes the two, it takes the two of us in kind of equal partnership to do hopefully something that special that God laid on our hearts. Well, you also wonder too, if that, and you're a key part of this, Sadie,

is that part of, I think, if you look at Christ and the way he rose women up, and you look at the Holy Spirit, which is such a sort of this strong, but beautiful feminine sort of spirit, if you will, that maybe part of, and in the fall, that there's this great discrepancy between women and men that happened in kind of the original fall of man, the original fall of man, that may be part of this beautiful sort of ushering in of God's kingdom, if you will, is actually the restoration of men and women and the balance between them. And I feel like you're a part of that. I feel like a lot of women who are rising and have voices today

are a part of this restoration of balance between man and woman. And like Luke Well said, it's not about women raising up and squashing man. It's not about men keeping women oppressed. It's about this beautiful, God-given balance that was meant to happen in relationship that's between men and women that is powerful and profound. And so, up, men, it's just an encouragement to you, to keep on keeping on as a young lady. And we're excited to see that balance. Because for the first time in human history, up until 100 years ago, the whole social construct

was built on brute force and strength. Yeah. And now, we're in this really beautiful place where it's built on our minds or what, you know, what creatively we can do or what we can share through a book or a podcast or so on. So all that to say, keep on keeping on. Thank you. And that's so good. The restoration is so beautiful.

And you're right. It's not good for man to rule over in that sense. And it's not good for women to rule over in that sense. It's the balance. It's the equality. It's the love how you put it. It's the God sees souls and all souls are equal. And when they are, man, the world just operates

at such a cool place because women do have so much to bring as well as men. And God did make us in his image in two different ways. And together it creates a beautiful thing. And you see that in marriage and you can see that in life whenever people come together and people cheer each other on. And man, you guys just wrote an album that speaks to so much of that, so much restoration, so much hope, so much unity. I know world that is so divisive and so thank you guys for coming on the podcast and talking about it and sharing more of your heart. I love to talk to you all y'all are just deep wells and it's so fun to just hear your wisdom and for those of you listening to the way it's compiled gas and got to hear Joel and Luke I highly encourage you. Go listen

to this album right now. What are we waiting for? It's out everywhere right now. Look it up on YouTube too and see all their awesome videos because they always have cool things coming out. But guys, thank you so much. I know you are going on tour too. When does that start? March 31st, I believe. Last day of this month, yes. Awesome, okay, tours coming out soon too, so look that up and get your tickets. But guys, thank you all so much for being on the podcast.

This was a great conversation. No worries, thanks, Eddie, appreciate you. Thank you, Sadie. And hey, let us know when you wanna have us back, and we will reverse and engineer this conversation and interview you. Yeah. Hey, that'd be a cool conversation.

I think we'd be down for that. I sure will. That's awesome. you