WHOA That's Good Podcast - Your Life Doesn’t Look Like You Expected? You’re Not Alone | Korie Robertson & Jill Dasher

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

While Sadie’s on maternity leave, her mom Korie Robertson is stepping in to host — and she brought on a super special guest: family member and longtime bestie Jill Dasher! Jill is that mom — raising LO Worship’s Laela Skinner, three boys, and a four-year-old girl. She’s married to Willie’s cousin Zach and today she’s bringing all the wisdom, laughs, and real talk. If you’ve ever looked at your life and thought, “Umm, this is not what I pictured,” this episode is for you. Jill gets it. But also—God’s got you. He’s in it with you, every single second. Jill shares the sweetest (and funniest) story about some confusion her daughter Ruth had about Phil Robertson's recent passing, and she and Korie talk about how Phil & Kay set the ultimate example of what it means to open your home and love people well. Jill says the secret to a full life is simple: open your door. Let people in. Let God work. Let’s gooo.  https://fastgrowingtrees.com - Get 15% off your first purchase when using the code WHOA at checkout. https://shopbeam.com/sadie — Get up to 35% off PLUS 2 free gifts with code SADIE https://gominno.com — Get your first month FREE when you use code WHOA at sign up. Take advantage of this web-only exclusive offer today! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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For a limited time, get 40% off your first box, plus get a free item in your box for life. Go to hungaruret.com slash woe and use the code woe. That's hungarroot.com slash woe with the code woe to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. Hungerroot.com slash woe with the code woe. Hey there. Welcome to Where That's Good. I hope your week is off to a great start. It's about to get even better because we have an amazing guest today. And I'm so excited to be hosting right now while Sadie is on maternity leave, taking care of that sweet little baby. We're going to have some fun conversations. And we're going to start with this one today with Jill Dasher, my friend. Welcome, Jill. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. So happy to have you. Yes.

I think this is my first time. Is it your first? Space. Yeah. It's beautiful. I know we recorded, I think, a couple years ago with Chris and Sadie and you, and that was so fun. So it's been a while. Yeah.

I think when we did that, we were back in Sadie's old bedroom. Oh, that's right. We recorded where that's good for a little while. This was like when COVID happened 2020, that's whenever she and Christian moved here. We made a little makeshift studio in Sadie's old bedroom. Childhood bedroom. I love it. And then we built another one up here at the warehouse.

And now we're in this amazing space. So welcome to Sadie's new Whoa, That's Good Set. It's absolutely beautiful. Isn't it pretty? So beautiful. So good. Yeah. Obviously.

Okay. So if you are a part of L.A. sister, if you've ever been to L.O. sister conference, you know Jill. Jill and I have gotten to co-host together the last few years. And Jill has done some stunts on stage at L.A. sister conference. What you probably know me as. is the girl that did the toe touch. That's my one.

Wait, did you do a cartwheel this last year? We talked about it. Did you ever do it? I don't know. I can't remember if I did a cartwheel or another toe touch. I did something. You did something. Yes.

I did something. Yeah. I'm not doing the stunts. Jill's doing the stunts. So we've known each other for a very long time. I'm about to like age ourselves by telling this. But I think it's been like 25 years. Oh, yes. And we weren't kids when we met. So that tells you how old we were.

You know, I remember, Corey taught my kids how to swim. Yes. Used to teach swimming lessons. Corey taught my kids how to swim. We were in house church together. I remember the first time I met you. Actually, I've known you since you were Jill with 1L. I still have you as Jill with 1L in my phone.

Tell us about that. Okay. So some listeners will appreciate this. When I was in middle school, I thought that Jill, J-I-L, was boring. It's just Jill. And so I thought Jill with 1L Way cooler Like that was my stage name

Yes For the stage I didn't have But Jill with 1L And it just stuck I remember I remember you telling me That's how you spelled your name And I put it in my phone as Zat

And I still have you as Jill with 1L And then I saw like something we did Where you had a name tag And it was two L's and I was like I thought your name was with 1L And you're like well Technically Literally just this last week

On our family thread Zach booked my flight wrong. He spelled my name wrong on a flight he had booked. He didn't spell it Jill with One L. He spelled it Jill Dasher, MD. Where the MD came from. He literally signed you an honorary doctorate. Yeah, I have no idea. And the lady that checked me in, she was like, oh, if they ask you about that, just tell them it stands for a medical doctor. And I was like, okay. So anyway, I put it on our family thread. And my brother-in-law was like, to be fair, Jill, no one knows how to spell your name. That's true. We don't. We don't. We don't.

Well, we met, I remember the first time we met, actually. Willie was the college minister. This was back in our former life before Duck Commander in Duck Dynasty. Willie was a college minister at our church, and I was the children's minister. And we had a college retreat out at Camp Chioca. Do you remember this? Yes, I do. Zach and I were dating.

Yes. I think that's probably the first time we met. Nope, I do. And you came for, you know, as a college student and dating Zach, and I thought you were so cute. And I thought you were perfect for Zach. And here we are, 25-something years later with kids and I have grandkids and all the craziness. And our kids are doing stuff together. Yes.

It's so crazy. I remember that trip because I remember thinking, you know, Zach was introducing me to everybody. And I was like, is everyone related? I was like, what is going on? You know, it was, no, but man, those were special. So for the audience, Zach and Willie are first cousins. And also, Willie was his college minister when Zach was a college student. So he was also his college minister.

And now we're partners in Tread Lively production company. I feel like I was thinking about this on the way here, how God has, like, woven our stories together. And really a lot of what he's kind of placed in our hands has been very similar, you know, in entertainment and podcasting and adoption. Yes. And all of that. So tell us a little bit about just your family. and kind of where they are and how your family has come to be

where you are right now. Yeah, so we, Zach and I, have been married for 24 years. So next year will be our 25th year. We have five kids. You know, it's funny because, Corey, you were sort of a model for me because you had your kids

just a little bit before mine. Ours are very close in age, but you were just like one or two years ahead always. I had two little babies when we met. I would imagine. John Lincoln, Sadie, whenever we were having that camp retreat, yes. And so I remember just kind of watching you. And so our kids kind of follow in the same pattern.

So my oldest daughter, we have five. My oldest daughter, Layla, who is on Ella Worship with Sadie, which is amazing. So cool just to see her and Will seeing together and the whole team. And, yeah, so it's super cool. But she's married. So I have my first child married, and so that's been fun. And then Max, he's 19. and her and my daughter and son live in Nashville.

They're into music. That's their passion, their heart's desire. Max is close to getting engaged. And she's so cute too. She is. She's an Ella sister. She loves, loves camp. I mean, she came to camp several years ago and just still has friends coming to visit her from camp.

So then we have Bear, who's 17, Fred, who's 14, and then a four-year-old, Ruth, who we adopted, like you mentioned. And so we're just a full... Y'all kind of started over with a baby. Started completely over at 40, which is a total God story that is just only God. Yeah. Only God could have worked this out. And so we started over at 40. And so we're just, we're in every stage there is, literally, high school, middle school, preschool. We've got a married couple. And so it's just... It's just crazy, full life.

Ruth, it's so funny. She's four. And she, this is just a side note I thought of it, I just had to share. She was with us for Phil's funeral and all of that when we came down with the family. And so she's been in this world where she's seen us with all the family. She was at the funeral. And of course, we, my husband and I, this is a side note, we planted a church. I don't want to say by accident, but it was.

not a side note because that's something I want to talk about right now what God is like showing you through your ministry so yeah but go ahead I want to hear about that that is my life but she so we we planted this church out of COVID that it was just meeting in our home it's just a few couples and God is just literally I have no way to explain it except that God is doing something really cool in our area and so she's been a part of these we've just had a lot of baptism lately and then all of this with Phil and so the other night Zach was praying at dinner and he ended his prayer and Ruth was like dad you forgot to pray for Phil no I missed him so much oh that's so sweet and then she goes and you know he died on the cross oh no and Zach's like wait wait

I don't I think she's confusing you some face Jesus and Phil like he was a great guy but not It was that Jesus. And so then later on that night, my son Max was putting her to bed and she was talking about how she's afraid to die. And I'm thinking she's just all of these major events are like coming into her mind. And so he's talking to her and he's like, you know, he's like explained to her and he's like, it's going to be okay. And she looks at him and she goes, I really think I need to be baptized. Four years old. That's so sweet.

And so it's just, yeah, we're just in this, this phase of life that's real sweet and she's adorable. And she and Honey are the same age. Yes. And so some of those same similar conversations, it's so sweet when they start, like, it's bringing, as a grandmother now, it just kind of brings you back to all those things as conversations I had with Sadie. Now she's having with Honey just asking about like Jesus and God and the devil and all the spiritual things. Like, four-year-olds can have some deep questions. Yes. They really, you can see them just kind of processing all of it, and it's really, really fun and sweet.

Yeah, they don't have that filter. They just say what comes to their mind, and I think that's what, so, I mean, I think that's why Jesus says, you want to be the greatest, be like a little child. Because they're not so protected. They're not so guarded. They're, if they think something or wonder something, they just say it. And I'm like, I want to be more like that. Yes, I love that. That's so great. Well, yeah, I want to talk a little bit about what God is doing in your life through your ministry with your church and everything because I feel like one of the things that I've noticed is whatever we're in like wherever our kids are that's one thing I remember one time having this conversation it was I was doing a like a podcast or a television interview and louis giglio was there and the interviewer asked us about like our generation like this younger generation because there

was it was time when there was like a lot of negativity about the younger generation and like oh my gosh they're falling apart what are they doing? And I remember being so hopeful for this next generation because I had kids in that phase. And I was like, John Luke and Sadie were teenagers and Will and Bella were middle schoolers at the time. And I was like, oh, like, I want to see like what God is doing in this generation. And I'm kind of seeing it. And whenever you're in it, you come from a different perspective. And I think you can watch things on television and be very discouraged about what's going on in our world or read the news.

because there is a lot of discouraging things, but also God is doing incredible things right now in our time in this next generation and in our generation too. He's not done with our generation either. So tell us a little bit about what you're seeing. Even if your babies aren't school age yet, fall still brings a lot of change, new routines, new schedules, and some big toddler feelings about where everybody went. That's why I love having minnow in our back pocket. Menno is the number one source. of Christian content, and they make it so easy to fill our days with shows that aren't just cute, but they're full of God's truth. It's a faith-based streaming service just for kids,

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Plus, you can use the code Woe to get your first month for free. This is a web-only exclusive offer. so make sure to sign up on the go menno.com website with the code woe W-H-O-A to get your first month for free. In fact, what I am seeing is that he's bringing the multi-generations back together. I think we went through this phase where we segregated everyone out. Okay, little kids, you're going to come over here, teenagers you're going to go over here, college you're going to come here, adults you're going to be over here. and we're really going to do our own thing. And what we are seeing is that God is merging these generations together in this amazing and beautiful way.

And in Asheville, where we live, well, we technically live in Black Mountain. And tell a little bit about Asheville and kind of that area in general. Yes. So it is a very spiritual area. And when I say spiritual, I don't mean it in the sense that we would think spiritual. It's very new age, very into Wiccan culture, very much anti-Jesus, in a sense. Buddha, you know, Buddhism is very big and all of these different world views that, to be honest, I didn't have a lot of experience in. And what we're seeing is that in all different ages and stages that so many of these people have tried everything.

I mean, they have tried everything there is. They have this one couple, I mean, he was a CEO in the tech world. I mean, made bukos of money, all the money you could have, had all the sexual experiences you could have. And I mean, I'm like, it's out there. Money, wealth, everything. And he literally said, none of it, none of it sustained me in any. way. And it's not that a lot of these people are being proselytized, like someone's like sharing Jesus with them. It's like Jesus is chasing them. Yeah. Like it is, that's why when I say like,

I can't explain what's happening. People are just showing up because they are finding Jesus and Jesus is fulfilling their heart's desire. He, in his person, who he is, is feeling that void and that hole. And we are just blessed to get to watch. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of these, um, particularly this, I think of this one young girl. So if you're listening and you're familiar with the flood that happened in our area. So we lived right where the flood. I mean, it devastated our town. Your church is actually in Swananoa, which is where it's hit the hardest. Swadanoa is where all the churches and it devastated that area. I mean, to an extent that, beyond recognition.

And so, but what's so beautiful, you know, God always redeems. He always restores. He's always taking something that Satan meant for bad, and he's turning it into good. And I feel like that's where we're experiencing the revival. A lot of these people lost everything. One girl in particular, I know she won't mind me sharing this story. Her house was just completely destroyed. And I'm sorry.

no you're good okay that's not a pretty car it's okay it doesn't have to be a pretty car her house was completely destroyed we ended up having some people from our church going to work on her house it it was the church and not just our church when i say the church i mean the church at large yeah jesus loving people when this happened everybody was just scattering where can we help where can we serve what can we do and her house happened to be one of the houses that we worked in And this little girl was deep in the wicked culture. I mean, she, like, no Christian worldview, her family isn't Christians, you know, nothing like that.

Yeah. We simply help with her house. Yeah. And through that, and she's working at a business that some of the people that go to our church work at as well. And through that, she ends up in a girl's Bible study. just this I mean it's like God is weaving these things together

and she comes to the Lord I'm talking a hundred miles an hour like I want to change my entire life sold out for the kingdom and right now this girl with two other girls they're young they're in their 20s they've started a business in downtown Black Mountain called The Laundry

it's this adorable little store and they're hosting worship nights in their store just at random nights during the day. And I'm just like, God, you are doing something. And it's so refreshing, so refreshing. Because sometimes I think we get so, especially if you grow up in Christianity, you can become so almost numb to, like, you've heard it all, you know.

And I feel like I'm experiencing the freshness of what a changed life is. And it's making me want to be changed more. Yes. Yes. Yeah. We were last year, we were in London for a conference. And it was not a Christian conference necessarily, but there was a lot of like really smart people. Like we feel like we have no idea. Like we feel like, you know, yes. Like on an IQ scale, we're like here and these people are here, you know. And so many of them are talking about Jesus and Christianity and coming to it in a whole different way than we came to it because we grew up in it and kind of just I've always known it.

Our parents knew Jesus and shared that with us and we've always known it. But coming to Jesus in a whole other way, sometimes intellectually, sometimes through a dream, sometimes through all these ways that Jesus pursues people. And I remember when we left, Bella, who's 21, I never know our kids ages. I got 20 kids. 21, 22, something like that. Anyway, she left. She told me she was like, I'm so encouraged by that.

We got tissue coming in. Oh, I was like, an animal. She's coming into the side. Thank you. So Bella's, she's like, I'm so encouraged by hearing these feel of faiths because it strengthened her faith to hear people come to Jews in other ways. It's not like, oh, I just believe this because I was taught it. It is like, I've searched the world.

Yes. I've stacked up all the different things the world has to offer, including all the different religions, all the different things the world has to offer. And this is the only one that reveals itself as true, you know? And it's so encouraging, I think, to see that because sometimes we can just take it for granted in a way of like, oh, we know we've heard it all and we believe it. And then even question ourselves, like, do I just believe it? Because that's what I've always been told.

And we need to search it for ourselves as well, but I think I have, I've experienced that too. It's just that encouragement of, oh, and what we can learn from people who come to faith later because they see things from a whole different perspective. And I love that and I'm so encouraged by that. And I feel like I learned so much from people who came to faith later in life weren't taught at their whole life because they can open the Bible and it's just fresh. And the word is fresh to them. They're not bringing in an ideology or a denomination or a system or any kind of learned behavior, you know, that sometimes we develop in Lifetime Christianity.

And please do not let me, like, I'm so thankful for my Christian heritage. Absolutely. Oh, my goodness, so thankful for my Christian heritage. But sometimes we do need to stop and question, like you said, wait, why do I believe this? And where is that coming from and all of that? So what I'm seeing is that these people that are coming in to the Lord, they're literally coming to Jesus, not to a church, a system of belief or anything. They're like, we want Jesus.

Yeah, that's good. And I think I want to say to the listeners who are, if you grew up in the faith and you felt like you're in that kind of like, I've always believed, but I don't really know, God's, God can stand up to your questions, to you, to you asking those questions, to your doubt, to your, to your unsure about what you've been taught or whatever, search him and ask him to reveal himself to you. And if you are in that position where you don't, you didn't grow up in faith. And that's one thing.

Actually, a friend of mine from England sent me, and he's been seeing just incredible revival. He's a pastor at a church there. And he sent me this woman who was saying on Instagram, he was talking about how she said, I kind of, we say we're agnostic Christians. She said, my husband and I, she said, we don't. really believe, but we want to believe. Like we've searched it and Christianity seems like the right way to go. So we believe it, I think she said something like, we believe it kind of materialistically, but we want to believe it supernaturally. So we're raising our kids and because

we want them around Christians because we want them to believe. And it's like you can see God working on her heart to say like, okay, I'm going to come to you. You want to come this way? You want to come to me this way? You want to come to me this way. And it's so exciting to see just that revival of people who had no belief. Yeah, no, it's been so encouraging to me. I came across the scripture in second, I think it's Second Timothy. Don't quote me, look it up for yourself. I think it's Second Timothy one, five.

And he's talking about, he's saying your grandmother, first it was your grandmother, Lois' faith. And then your mother, Eunice's faith. and now yours. And it's this one little verse, and I thought, man, that is so encouraging whether you've been a part of generational faith or whether you are the first, you know, because I think of my grandmother who, faithful, both of my grandmothers were faithful women. My mom, I'm carrying on that tradition, but to the lowest of the world that are the first. Starting it.

Like, you are going to pass this. There's going to be people in the kingdom of God. because of this decision that you're making. And so I just... Generation upon generation. I love that. I love it. Sometimes you got to get real creative,

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And I thought, what a challenge it is to us to be that salt and light in the world and how many times we can get a bad reputation because of things we place online or the way, the comments that we make. So it is something to think about as believers, as Christians, as followers of Jesus, like, what are we, who are we representing? We are his ambassadors on this earth and how are we representing that? And you guys showing up as the church, not just your church, as the church, the followers of Jesus, showing up to help, to serve, to, you know, rebuild homes. And that is what it's about.

And that is where our witness and how we act on this earth impacts other people. Yeah. And I think that's the thing that the Lord is showing me. I'm 44. And, man, if I was 24, like, do you ever think, man, I wish I knew this at 24? But I bet there's some 24-year-olds listening to this. man if I was 24 I would go so bold for Jesus like I felt like I was kind of bold at 24 but at 44 I'm like no I would I would even go so much more I would be so much more bold for Jesus I wouldn't hold back I would ask all the questions I love what you said I told this this young girl I was studying with a while back she had a lot of doubts and I said look ask every hard question there is not a question that I would say don't pursue. And in fact, you know, if I'm wrong, I want to know I'm

wrong. I don't think I'm wrong, but I'm open to being wrong. And ask all of the hard questions because if you do, I'm certain. And if you are pursuing truth, like you will find it and you will find it exponentially. You will be like, oh, this is really true. And so just don't be afraid to ask, ask those questions, don't be afraid to radically change your life and follow what's in this book. I think that's the thing I'm seeing too. Actually, you introduced me to this girl.

I don't know if you remember, you sent me, Corey sent me, because Corey and I are talking, we talk a lot about what's going on in our little Asheville area. And I love that we can share that with you. And so Corey sent me a reel through Instagram of this girl, Kara is her name

and she was big into yoga she was a guru she was I don't know she called herself a goddess she would love that and she comes to the Lord okay and so you send me this real

I DM her I'm like I've got to we've got to meet we end up meeting we're really good friends now but this woman has gone from being this guru goddess into yoga and all of the, not Jesus, just all of everything else to radically changing her life and what is so beautiful, because she's, I think, in her 40s, I'm not exactly how old she is, but she's not married, but she really wants to get married, but she wants to be married to a Christian man. And she's like, Jill, I know this sounds silly, but I'm so excited to wait to have sex until we get married,

like to do it God's way. Yeah. To wait for the man that God has for me and then to do it God's way. And I love that. Yeah. It's that they're not just coming to Jesus for, okay, let me give this a try.

It's this, this is the way, the truth and the life, and I'm willing to change everything about my life. Yeah. And I'm seeing that in this older. And it's like I've tried it my way. Yes. And realize that like my way got me here.

Yes. And so, like, now maybe I should try it the way the creator of the universe set it up, you know? And it's not a rule book to be followed of like, oh, it's because I just have to follow the rules and do what's right or I'm going to like go to hell or whatever. It's like I understand that this way leads to death. Yes. And this way leads to life. Yeah. It's so cool.

That's great. I love that. I want to talk about, you mentioned this inner generation. faith because I think that is really important. And I think that, yeah, we're of a different I'm a little older than you, like you said, but we're of a different generation. And sometimes I think we can think, I've seen a little bit of this conversation going on of the older generation doesn't really care about this generation. They don't want to pour into. They're not giving us their time and attention and wisdom. And I think that that was a really important point of

there's still, there's a lot for us to do and to continue doing. Like, we need the wisdom of the generation before us. I learned so much from my grandmother, my mom, and so much of what, that generational faith of Lois to her. And there's so much in the scripture, too, about passing it on to the next generation, telling the stories, not forgetting what God has done in your life, not holding it and just being like, okay, God did that, but I'm not telling anybody about it. And so what does that look like in your church?

And I think that that's really important. So it's funny that you ask that question because I have such a beautiful example of that. So we were given a church building in Swananoa four years ago. We have outgrown that building to the point where, I mean, Sunday's people would be standing outside and some people would leave because there was no place to go. And so this church, a little bit down the road,

about a mile and a half down the road. They were, I hate to say a dying church, because I don't even, but they were. They were dying out. There was not very many members. It was struggling. And they ended up basically saying, hey, we want to give you this building.

Why don't you guys come over here? And there was a good chunk of older members still there. And so we just had our first service at that new building on Sunday, but we've been working and getting it already up until then. And there's this precious woman. Her name was Karen. She was one of the older members there.

She's probably in her 60s. And she has, man, worked her little self, helping us get this church building ready. And so we had this big work day the other day, and we were cleaning stuff out. And a lot of the stuff we were cleaning out, we were throwing it away because we knew we weren't going to use it. And it was like old decorations.

But a lot of it, she had used. placed her for all those years. And I'm looking at her face and I kind of see that she may be a little, not upset, but I just could. And I looked at her and I said, Ms. Karen, I said, is this hard for you? She said, it is a little hard.

She said, but I'm so excited. She said, I just love the life coming in here. She said, this stuff doesn't matter. And so I just, I spoke some, like, love into her right then in that moment. And this next Sunday at church, she came up to me and she said, Jill, I just want to thank you so much for what you said yesterday.

She said, my biggest fear was that you wouldn't need me, that I wouldn't know, I would no longer be needed. Wow. And I looked at her, I said, Ms. Karen, I said, we need you more now than ever. I said, you have a wisdom that I don't have. I said, and I have a wisdom that some of these younger girls don't have, and they need, we all, we need that. And I think there was a trend for a while that was just everything be led by the young. everything be led by the young. And so the older just were like, okay, I'm done. I'm tapping out. And it's like, no, we need the young. Keep going strong. Do what you're doing. But man, we can't tap

out. Yeah. Because there is a wisdom that we need to speak into these young girls and these young men as they're stepping into ministry because we have lived some extra years. Yeah. We're good or bad. That's a thing that I've, another thing that I feel like I've been impacted by when I've been to London. And I think, I think I mentioned London because they're a little bit, honestly, ahead of us in the post-Christian, which not in a good way necessarily. Like, they experienced a post-Christian, like kind of culture before we did, meaning most people there weren't Christians. And so there was a different feeling in the church there. because they were set apart in a different way where in America in the past, we've kind of been mostly Christian, especially in the South. If you're in the South, you're like, most people around here are Christians.

And so it's just kind of part of your life, you know, part of your culture in a way where there it wasn't. And so I saw this different like zeal, even in the older people where here I kind of, we experienced this moment of, like you said, the older people were like, we did it. Okay, we're done. Now your turn. Step up or whatever's going to happen. But I felt this, I saw this kind of like zeal for the Lord and excitement for the work that God was placing in their hands. And I think that's happening here too.

As we do, as unfortunately, you know, our culture is becoming less Christian. And so we realize that like as Christians, like we are meant to be set apart. Yeah. And there is work for us to do in teaching the next generation for our faith to continue. I mean, I mean, Jesus is doing the work, but it's... But he lets us, how cool is it that he's like, I want you to be a part of it? You know, I love that. Hey, y'all, what's up?

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And there was this scripture that, I mean, radically impacted me. And so it was right after Moses came down from the mountain and he discovered that they had made the idols. And so he smashes the 10 commandments on the ground. And then the Lord's like, okay, I want you to move. I want you to go somewhere else. telling him to go. And Moses says, if your presence will not go with me, please do not send me out from here. Because if your presence doesn't go with me, how will we be set apart? Basically, how will they know we are yours? And then how will we be distinguished from everyone else on the earth? And I stopped there at that scripture, and I thought, man, what if that was my mentality? What if I took the mentality, God, if your presence isn't going with me, I'm not going.

I don't want to go. And whatever it is that I set out to do, if you're not going, I don't want to go. If your presence isn't there, I don't want to have that conversation. I don't want to take that job. I don't want to pursue, for the young people listening to this, I don't want to pursue dating this guy if your presence isn't going with me. And that just stuck me. and then also couple that with the idea that Moses was like, not only am I not going if your presence doesn't go with me,

but I want to be known as yours. I want to be identified as your people. And the only way people are going to know that we are yours is if you're with us. And I thought, man, how many times have I set out into the world not thinking about God's presence going with me, just thinking, oh, I'll do it. I'll accomplish the thing or, you know,

or you think of in our culture, you do you or you've got this or you're strong enough. But it's like, no, like, I want his presence with me. Yeah. I want to be identified. I think the older I've gotten, the more I have been, same thing. I feel like God is teaching me that so much. I used to be, I'm kind of a risk taker person, honestly. I just, I like change.

I like to try something new. I'm not really scared to try something new. And so I used to go at it a little bit more. mentality of like, okay, God is with me wherever I go. And he is. He is with you wherever you go. It's not that he's not. But also, it is a walking with him in a different way of asking, asking him and listening where I used to pray to him. Now I try to listen more rather than talk and hear where he is leading and guiding. And what does that look like? I would love to know because I've found this, and there's times when I've thought, okay, God is with me in this.

I have asked for his. I have listened. And then it did not go. It still didn't go the way I thought it was going to go. It didn't go the way I had planned. I thought, wait, I thought God was supposed to be with me in this. But what he is revealing to me is that it doesn't mean it's going to look the way you expect it to look. It doesn't mean it's going to be this worldly success, you know.

And I think there was an instance a couple of years ago that was something I spent so much time in prayer about and thought, oh, this is a God thing. You know, this is a God thing. And so many people did. And it didn't make it. It didn't last. It didn't do what we expected it to do. But there's so many things that God taught me in that, you know. There's so many things that God.

showed me and revealed, and there's other things. So I think the measure of success, that's another thing. I think God is teaching me is like, the measure of success is not the same as ours. It's not going to always look like the success you think it's going to be. It's going to be, it might be something else that he's teaching you in that or a relationship that he brought into your life through that thing, that that's what it was meant to be. and that whole kind of tapestry of our lives as you look back and we're getting into that phase of life that we can see

and I'm excited for to be 70 or to be 90 to look back and see the tapestry even and then to be in heaven to really see the full tapestry of what he's done in my life but to I think he's revealing that more and more to me of oh it's not going to necessarily look right I'm not I'm not painting the same picture that you think I am. And it's not an arrival place. I think so many of us, no matter what age you are, we're trying to arrive at that place of like full contentment or full or where we feel good enough or successful enough. I mean, you feel in the blank enough. And one of the things about a tapestry is that really it's never finished. It's always ongoing. But I think about you talk about you

talked about something you prayed about not ending up like you thought. Man, I've had a lot of those moments in my life. But I've had also those moments on the other end of the thing that didn't turn out like you thought it would, of seeing, oh, being able to go back and see that's why that didn't happen that way. This led to this, which would have never happened. And my greatest, I guess, example of that in my life is with Ruth. Our adoption with her, I would have never in a million years thought we would move from West Monroe, Louisiana

to North Carolina. That was not on our plan at all. And the way that came about was through a lot of pain. But every time we talk about that, we were like, man, we would have never, we've never gotten Ruth. Have we not gone through

that season. And so if you're in it, if you're in that place right now where you're like, this was not what I planned. God, I thought you were there. He is there. He is aware. And he has a reference point and a viewpoint that you don't have. And I know that he's working for your good. And that comes with time. Time. And it's not always fast. And there's still things that I'm like, okay, God, what are you, what were you teaching me in that, you know? And there's going to be times been there. And then there's a lot of things that are resolved that I'm like, oh, it's so clear now. Yeah. I know exactly. Yes, our adoption. When we adopted Will, it was through I had gotten pregnant very easily with John Link and Sadie and then just didn't get pregnant and thought, you know,

God, maybe this is what you have. And we found out we'll got him within a week. It was just miraculous. And that was in December, got pregnant with Bella in January. And it was just like, thank you, God. Thank you for not giving me what I wanted at the time or what I thought was going to happen, you know, not doing it the way I had planned because then Will comes into our life and he's obviously so meant to be ours

and then Bella, then we have Bella, you know? And it's just like you look back and you just think, oh, no, I see. Thank you for not giving me the prayers that I asked in the moment and exactly the way that I wanted them or plan them out. But some of that takes time. I talk about a lot

my favorite quote from Mother Teresa and as God hasn't called me to be successful, he's called me to be faithful. And that comes with that faithfulness. Just that time spent with the Lord, that's when you go back and you're like, okay, now I see. But if you give up,

if you don't say faithful to Jesus, you give up, then you don't see the promise. You don't see his promise fulfilled in your life the way he, You know, he has it for you. No, and I think to that waiting period ends up being a way that he ministers to so many other people down the road. Like the periods in your life where you are in waiting or questioning or wondering, when you do get on the other side of that, I find that people that are going through what you went through find their way to you. And then you're able to minister to them through what you.

Yeah, that scripture in revelations, that they will know Jesus through the power of the sun and the word of your testimony. Your testimony is so important in the lives of others. And God is using you in that way. And what a privilege that, like you said, that God is using us. The other thing I was thinking about, and we're about to have to wrap up, I feel like we could talk forever. Jill and I, like, once we get going, we could talk forever.

And I hope there's been something. We've touched on so many different things today. but you were talking about cleaning out the church and how there are things that were used at one time, but now they're not. You know, you're throwing away and that God's doing something new. And I think that that's an encouragement of, like, yes,

everything that you've had is not wasted. He used it. He used it. But now it's time for something new. And Willie and I've been talking about that a lot now with his dad passing. Phil passed away a few months ago and with taking care of Ms. Kay and you know, all their stuff. You're just like, there's so much stuff. Kay was a little bit of a hoarder, so there's a lot of stuff. But, you know, you're like, we don't, some of it's just like,

okay, we don't need all this stuff. It's making us kind of clean out a little bit more because we're like, we don't want our kids to clean all this stuff. But also, it's like, okay, God used that home that feeling like I had to host, now I'm going to cry, now I'm going to need the tissues, to host so many people and to serve so many people in that time. And I remember being the recipient of that as a fifth grader going to their house, you know, and them having this pick, fish fry and being so hospitable, even when they really had nothing, you know, so like God used at home and God used them in so many ways. And now they're onto a different phase, you know, Ms. Kay's in a different phase of life and feels past, but like, now what do we have to carry on?

And how are we going to use our home and the things that God has blessed us with? And I think that I'm just thinking about that when you were talking about that church and how the church, that church, you know, was alive and doing great things at one time and now God's going to use it in a different way. So I think maybe, I guess, wrapping up that thought, just, you know, what God has done in your life. like don't, don't throw away what he's done in the past of your life, but take each thing and know that, like, God's going to continually doing something new.

I think I've seen that in my life. It's like, okay, I thought that was done, but God has something else. He has something else for me, and maybe this thing didn't go the way I expected it to go, but God has something else. And that's what's so beautiful about walking with him. and that you're talking about asking him to be with us and that he will continue to have adventures for you and things for you to do in your life

but it comes with a walking with him yeah you you do and I think too the beauty of bringing the old into the new is is something so beautiful just structurally our church I found these old stained glass windows on Facebook marketplace from an old church in Georgia and I bought them and we put them in this

and this building isn't new the building is old but we made it new to us and the lady that sold them to me she said oh please send me a picture I'm so glad they're going back in a church and I look at those windows

these stained glass windows and I think man I think of all the stories that have happened in front of those the prayers that have been prayed, the hardships, the births, the deaths, the all of that. It's like we bring the old into the new because the old has shaped our lives. We are shaped, you mentioned Phel and K,

we are doing what we're doing now off the backs of what their service, off the backs of sitting at their feet, eating their food, having them pour into us. And if you're watching this and you you feel like, man, I want a full life. If you want a full life, open your door. Whether you have a dorm room, whether you have a one-bedroom apartment, like my daughter, whether you have a 10,000 square foot house, if you want to fill your life. Because when I think of Kay, I think of someone that had a full life, open your door. Yeah, that's so good.

That's so good. All right, let's end there. This was so fun. Of course, we laughed, we cried. All the things whenever I sit down and talk to Jill. But thank you for being here. This is awesome. My honor.

Jill has a book, Shallow, that I remember being honored to get to read even before it came out. And you have a podcast, not yet now. And so if you want to follow more about what Jill's doing, please do. She's, as you can see, a wealth of wisdom and a great friend. And I love you. I love getting to talk to you today. Thank you. Oh yeah