WHOA That's Good Podcast - Your Season of Sorrow Has a Beginning, Middle & End! | Korie Robertson & Beth Redman

Episode Date: July 5, 2023

Beth Redman has a gentle, godly and wise spirit and is here to share some incredible truths with Korie and the rest of us! Right away, her "best piece of advice" will have you thinking about who's on your enemy prayer list! Korie remembers a time when she and Willie stopped by the Redman house and witnessed one of their family traditions — and it might be one you want to incorporate for your family and friends! Iron sharpens iron, as Beth says, and this is why we ALL need friends who aren't afraid to tell us the tough things. Beth explains why she chooses to live without a smartphone and off social media, plus she shares how she and her (eventual) husband, Matt, started dating when he was a worship leader in their youth group. She also takes us through an immense season of loss that she and Matt experienced, which was followed by an immense season of abundance — and she's encouraging anyone going through a tough time that there is a beginning, middle and end! Korie challenges us to resist the desire to want to know everything now since we really should be trusting God and His plan for us.  https://www.stitchfix.com/whoa — Get 25% off when you keep everything in your Fix! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All right, welcome friends to Whoa That's Good Wednesday. This is so much fun. I'm so excited today is going to be a really great day. I have a very good friend on today and I cannot wait for y'all to meet her. You're going to instantly fall in love just like I did. She is an author, a writer, a award-winning songwriter. She is a mom of five, the wife, some Matt, and she's my dear friend and Beth Redman.

Welcome to where that's good. Thank you, Corey, so good to be with you. This is gonna be so fun. I feel like this is like, we just get to have a conversation. A lot of people might be listening in, but I just love every single chance I get to talk to you so I'm excited about today and hearing your wisdom because you are full of it. Full of it. So first the very first question that we always ask on why that's good

that is what is the best piece of advice you've ever been given? Honestly, I would say from the mouth of Jesus, from Matthew 5, when it talks about, you know, you have heard it said, love your neighbor and hate your enemy. And then Jesus has this piece of advice for them. He's like, actually, it's not that. The way of the kingdom is love your enemies and pray for those who mistreat you.

And I would say in my story that piece of advice I think has changed not just my life, my heart, it's changed my mind. And this is so classic me. I'm like here we go off the dirt. Just so intense. But honestly it's not the way of the world to pray for people who've hurt you, but how you when you pray for them, it changes the way you talk about them, the way you think about them. And so honestly, that has helped the redirection of my heart and my life. Wow, Beth, oh my goodness. Okay, here we go, right in, right into the deep end.

That's so good. I feel like, well, one, I feel like I wish I would have thought about my best piece of advice being from Jesus, because you know, you cannot go wrong when you say your best piece of advice is something straight from Jesus' words. It's so good, but yeah, that one right there, that's a hard one.

That is, and sometimes Jesus' words are tough. They're counter to how we would actually are what our spirit wants to do, but it's always the right way. And it always is what leads us to the abundant life he has for us. And I just love that so much. I think that's such a great piece of advice.

And I feel like so many people are receiving that right now. And it's going to change their life because when you do what Jesus says, you take as word as truth, it changes your life. Yeah, it goes against the grain and it goes against the flesh, right? Yeah. I remember Dr. Arty Kendall asking Matt and I, my husband, how many people we had on our enemy prayer list. I'm like, that sounds ridiculous.

But actually, to get to that place where you can take that mistreatment, that persecution, whatever it is, whatever its name is, take that person to Jesus and say, I am not gonna let this offense, this wound, this injustice, take me out, because everything flows from my heart, right? Yeah. And so I'm like, obviously I've had peace advice like always wear matching underwear,

all the things. You know, paint your nails, your toes and your fingernails, the same color, but I just thought maybe we should just get a bit of life-changing. Not quite as life-changing. Yeah. Yeah. So good. I actually just heard a heard about Craig Michelle and it was about abuse and it was talking about how Jesus was abused. He experienced abuse. He was beaten. He was crucified. He was spit upon.

He was actually abused. And some of his last words were, Father, forgive them for they know what, not what they do. And so just that idea that like, oh, he's experienced this to the, you know, as bad as it can be, to death. And still on the cross he said, father, forgive them. And yeah, just knowing that Jesus went through it as well,

I think was just really, I don't know, that was just one of those things for me. I was like, oh, wow, you know, had not considered that. Like there's, I don't know, that was just one of those things for me. I was like, oh wow, you know, had not considered that. Like there's, we don't serve a savior who hasn't gone through the things that we've gone through because he came to earth for us. So that's so amazing. Tell me a little bit about like how you came to faith and kind of just a little bit of your story. The best gift that I was given in life was being brought up going to church. And so many healthy, formative memories and experiences happen there.

You know, my home life was incredibly turbulent, violent. It's brought up. I think in America you call it the projects. In England we call it a counsellor's date. It's government-funded housing. And you see all kinds of everything there. But right in the middle of that environment, there was a local church and it was a building that was small and it was shared by three different expressions of the faith, the Catholic church, meant there eight o'clock. The Anglicans came in later at 9.30 and then the non-denominational church that I was a part of had a service

later in the morning and then at lunchtime it became a bar for the community. I love that. I love that. Everyone used this place but let me tell you what I did not get in my home. I found in that church. I was loved. I was taught the Bible. I was encouraged.

I was trusted. I was believed in and the consistency of those people, you know, these are not names anyone would know, but they are the reason that I have a faith, and that's a gift that my mum gave me, and we can look back and say, well, I didn't get this, or I didn't get that, but for me that is what I did get, and in that church, I got to see healthy families, I just got to see something different and it became a bar for me. And I can't think of a time where I was let down or disappointed by those people. And I think that gave me such an amazing foundation and propelled me to where I am today.

So good. How did you end up there? How did you end up there? How did you like, like, show up, find yourself at the church, going in the family environment you grew up in? Yeah, I think my mom really wanted us to have a faith. And she was the first generation Christian. She became a Christian as a teenager, because some people came to her school.

And she ended up being in a really charismatic youth group. Why when I came through London? And she was like, this is what I want for my children. And so that was the gift that I got given. She walked me three and a half miles to school in the morning and three and a half miles home so that I could go to a free school, a church of English school,

that offered an amazing education. We would sing hymns and take communion and learn about Jesus and just all of these good things. So really it's just the faith of my mom and her commitment that has changed the trajectory of my life. Yeah. I love what you said there about just looking at your life and I think it's easy to look at our life and think about the bad things. Okay. What I think it's easy to look at our life and think about the bad things. Okay, what are the, what were those bad moments that and become and feel like a victim to some extent

to like, oh, this and this and this is happened to me. And so here's where I am, but instead you're looking and saying like, okay, what were the good things? What were the things that came into my life, the gifts. And also just knowing that like, oh, where God was and all that, and how He was been with you through all of it, even in the hardest, the hardest times you've been through. Yeah, for me, the church is a river and a desert, and God put it there.

And if we look for Him, I believe we can always find Him, and that doesn't mean there aren't hard things. Yeah. But I think it goes back to that advice of Jesus. You know, if I hyper-focus on all of the things that I didn't get or that I can't change. I love that Amy Carmichael quote, in acceptance lies peace. It doesn't mean we're saying it's okay. We're not giving those people power by letting them stay or abuse as or our offenders, but we're saying, I'm going to take that to the cross. That happened,

that was real. But Jesus met me there. And here's all these things that he did to turn the bitter water sweet. And for me, that's what the local church was. It was God's rescue plan for me. It's the river. Yeah, that's beautiful. And that's what it's meant to be. And so beautiful. Okay. Well, obviously you're not from around here. Your accent is kind of giving you away. So, but you came to America. When, when was that? When you come to the States?

And what was that like? You know, you're starting over. You have this, you know, church that you've kind of grown up in and that the different things that you've done and you and your family just kind of started over what was that like? Yeah, I mean I had a really small life growing up just lived in this one place It's tiny town and then when I was 19 I got to go to America on a mission strip And I was like everything is massive

It's just mind-blowing. And I love the people and I love the faith. I just loved what I saw there. And then later on marrying Matt, you know, we started to go a bit more regularly and 2001, we ended up coming just for a short season. So suppose it's a bat's call, you could call it and come into California.

And so for us, it just became this association with rest. And then there were times we would go back to America for seasons for things that Matt was doing. And then in 2016, I think, God just made it really clear like, hey, I think we need to be moving this direction and making a home. And you know, it was hard. There was times, it was lonely and cultural differences.

And but I think wherever you are, you can, if you can find someone who will invite you into your home and they'll come into your home and you do life around a table, I think that's when you know I can put roots down. And so yeah, there's things about the culture that I'm still learning and understanding. And you know, but I love it. I'm grateful. I'm grateful to be here. And I love like the big vision,

the big faith, the big energy. That's, yeah, that's, that's it, refreshing. That's so interesting to hear just like the perspective of like, okay, everything's bigger here, I guess. I guess it's just so true. Yes. This is so true, yes. What is your favorite color? What is your favorite color? What is your favorite color? What is your favorite color? Hey guys, it is summertime.

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Stitchfix.com slash what? I remember one of our very first conversations you were telling me about how you and Matt have really made a point to invite people into your home and doing kind of a house church kind of model. I don't know. Tell them a little bit about that because I just think that that is something that is so important of saying that. I remember that was something that is so important. I've seen that. I remember that was something so impactful to us when we were young, like, having people in our home

and we still do that, but as far as, like, we had it, like a house church, and these were the people that took care of you. These were the people that, like, plan your baby shower or plan the meal train, or did that, and I think that, you know, as a culture, we have kinda gone away from that to our detriment. And I've seen our young people doing it and I'm like, I love it so much.

Our kids have like a pot look and a sermon every Wednesday night where they get together with some friends. And I'm just, I love that so much. And I remember one of our very first conversations you telling me a little bit about establishing that for you within your community. What does that look like and how did you do that? Yeah, well we saw Jesus do it first, right? Meeting around a fireplace and cooking dinner, breaking bread together, that sort of coin in the air, that's at the centre of Christianity.

And so I love that book that the gospel comes with a front door key. That means that wherever we are, if there's a table, invites some people to it. And so, yeah, that was the culture I grew up in, that Matt grew up in, and that when we moved here, we were like, come over. And not everyone, but the majority would look at you like, you mean like to your actual house? Not like a generic restaurant.

Yeah. And we were like, hey, yeah, go to our house. Not like a generic restaurant. And we're like, hey, go to our house. And so, I have to say to our kids, oh, bring friends over and just wanting to have a table where people can come. And then we would have this tradition as we eat dinner together. I think we might have done it together. How wow, pal, now. My kids learned it on camp, like how I saw God today, something good in my life, something hard in my life, and how you can pray for me now. And you just go around the table and it's just like it's not intense, it's just been a beautiful way to get to know people and maybe cut through some of that.

Oh my gosh, it'll be great to get together, but it doesn't happen. Right. And we just had some friends from Singapore over and they were saying, we would love to do that. But we have three families living in a two-bedroom apartment, you know, it's not always possible. Yeah. But it's like, how can I recreate this? Where can I recreate this? And I don't think we have to wait till we have the big house or the show home, you know, just find some chairs or sit on the floor and just invite people to the table and just ask those little questions. And John Mark Comer and his wife Tammy, they just moved to Orange County for a short season. And they began this table fellowship that we go to on Thursdays. So it's like we're getting

to go to someone else's house and experience it. And it's just, to me, it means that no one's ever lonely. That's so good. I love that. And that's what church is supposed to be about. Okay, tell us again, how well pal now? Yeah, how I saw God today, something good in my life, something hard in my life, and either how I'm doing now or how you can pray for me now. And we do it with our kids at dinner. And it's just a good way to just when people come in to say let's just check the spiritual temperature without being invasive or asking people to over share or just be invisible. It's just been a great, a great way to connect. I love that so much. Okay, you're an amazing mom and I got to, so Willie and I, I gotta tell this story because we literally like popped in on Matt and Beth

and their family just recently. We were like, hey, we're in your area. Can we come to your house and invite it ourselves? And it happened to be their son's birthday. And so we, we really literally invite it yourself to your son's birthday dinner. And I'm showed up and y'all did the sweetest thing in sharing notes for the birthday.

And I just love that tradition so much And I just feel like I was like oh, I wish I'd have done that as a mom for our kids So I want you to share that with our listeners because I feel like there's a lot out there who were trying to figure out Hey, what are the traditions we're gonna set for our family and what are some things that are important and And I just thought that was a really sweet one and we got got to be just a part of it. And it was very special for us. Oh, you were so sweet. Well, it was just, we're trying to think of like intentional traditions

that would be certainly could look back on and say, I remember that moment when you spoke life over me. So kind of on birthdays, father's day, mother's day, we just take time to write a speech for the person whose day it is and just encourage him to go away and just think about something really deep. And you know, we have four sons and one daughter.

So there can often be a lot of resistance where they want it to be like, you are nice. I'm like, no, that's not going to work. You're going to want more. But also, you know, when they marry, I want them to be able to say, like, I learn how to actually say things that I appreciate, that I see, that I value, that I treasure, and it's so easy to banter or pull people down. But I'm like, on this day, we're going to write it down, and then they have memory boxes where they keep all the things in. But, you know, we're a real family. I think you're at Jackson's birthday.

He's looking all around the room. I'm like, this is very special. Yeah. He's like, what? He's like, Mom, are we really doing this in a restaurant? And you're like, yes, we are. Yes, we are. You're not crying.

This is very meaningful. But I think it's one of those things that we just had adults as graduation from college this weekend. We're in a restaurant and they all did it. And it was just, I could see it's like, it meant so much. It meant so much. It's so sweet and special.

And I do want to say this. I think that this is teenagers we're talking about here. Teenagers writing a letter to their sibling about what they mean from it. And they were so beautiful and heartfelt and like, we felt like we got to know Jackson through these letters. And so, but it takes, it does take intentional time to do that.

It doesn't just happen. You know, your teenagers, all of a sudden are gonna write these letters about their siblings. It takes doing that intentionally. And you can start a tradition at any time. I'm not saying that for sure. But I think that, you know, the way you have fostered that environment within your home is really beautiful.

And I was honored to get to just sit in and experience. Another thing about you, I feel like I'm just going to tell the thing in my favorite things about you and then we'll just talk about that. Is that okay? I thought I'd think about you that I'll love so much. You're such a good and sweet and intentional friend. That's been a lot to me. So, what does friendship mean to you and how do you be intentional about that? I think to me friendship is like Samson's hair. It his strength. And without it, he actually, he couldn't do the thing he was called to do.

And so for me, friends are so integral. I'm a relational person. I heard a guy called Jim at Neesh speak once and he was talking about every person needs at least between nine and 15 good caliber strong friends. And it's not just an outward arrow where you're pouring into people and discipling and it's not all inward outward arrow where you're pouring into people and discipling and it's not all inward arrows where you're just taking and absorbing and being

mentored or whatever. It's that two-way arrow and he says between nine and 15 friends, is that that optimal number? And when Matt and I heard that we're in a seminar and Matt was like, who would want nine to 15 friends... And I'm like, how could you have... That's just not enough. I just love people. But you see, you open the book of Proverbs, and it's basically, show me your friends, and I'll show you your future.

Good company. It's going to shape your life and bad company. It's going to corrupt it. And so it's all about not just finding a number or an in crowd or being a part of a group, but it's finding a caliber for me, a caliber of women. It's that iron sharpening iron. It's that, you know, that collotions relationships that are like clobotumility, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness.

And I've experienced that with you, Corey, this is an overflow of hundreds of conversations that we've had behind the scenes where you come with your whole heart, you show up and you say, basically how well power now. How I'm doing today, here's something good in my life, here's something hard in my life, here's how I'm doing now. And what I have needed and what has changed me is women who will love me enough to say,

Beth, I don't know if you should talk about that or Beth, I hear that that maybe some bitterness there or I am so proud of you, you've been so resilient, keep going, don't give up. You know, we need those women, the iron sharpening, iron, because actually we're all on mission together. We need each other. We are better together. And when you look at that, that sort of collusion's 313 model, the optimal is love because it actually makes us unified. And when we are unified, we can build a stronghouse and we can do anything when we are together. And so for me that has just been so critical and that is intentionality. I don't, you know,

write a list and say who can I be a friend to today. It's just this is who I want to be. And so important days, I'm like, I want to write that down. I want to follow up. And I have had that back. God has so blessed me back. And it has been the strength of my life that my friendships with Godly, amazing women let you. That's so good. I love that. You talking about just friends that you can be real with

and you can trust that they will tell you the truth. And I remember one time, I had a friend who, I went to with something and she was like, no, I just need you to like agree with me. I don't really need you to, you know, tell me that. Like, I just, I just really like, I just want your, like sympathy, but I don't really want you to like, tell me the hard stuff. And I remember thinking, oh, like, I don't know if,

if we can be that good of a friends because I actually really need you to tell me the hard stuff. I'm one a friend that is willing to say, like, hey, you know, you have your thought about it, like this, or have your thought about it, and that, you know, that humility that comes with having a friend that can actually, say, speak those things into your life. I think it's so so important and so valuable. And yeah, you've been that friend to me. And also, you know, mentioning that about noticing, I remember one of the early times I told you about one of my kids that was struggling with something. And you remember her name and followed up,

and that just meant so much to me. And so, yeah, it's little things like that, you know, just to talk to the viewer for a minute. Like, yeah, how can you, you want these, if you want this in your life, you want relationships, you want friendships, how do you build that? And that's really being, being that friend for other people. I love that. Another thing that you have just showed in this little bit of time that we've been talking is just how the word of God is just an outpouring. It pours out in your conversation because you've taken the time to put that in your life.

And I'll never forget one of the first times I met you. I don't think you even had an iPhone. I think you were like full on, not just like no social media, which we're not like in a hangout session video, but you were like straight on, not just like no social media, which were not like in a hangout social media, but you were like straight up like flip phone because you had just felt like you wanted to really invest that time in other things. So share a little bit about that.

I remember being like, whoa, no, that's hardcore. You're, yeah. Yeah, I didn't have a cell phone for two years. I had a flip phone, but the number seven broke on it. So I used to have to have an email. I used to have to email Matt and say, could you call this number? That has a seven in it.

Okay, let's go back. And he's like, we need to do an intervention. Yeah, because, and I had this iPad. And I would do everything on the iPad which Matt pointed out was like just a giant iphone, so I'll be like, hello, can I say it anyway. But you know, honestly, I think for me it was about knowing myself and it was about social media, it's not the enemy and iPhones, not the enemy, but distraction was my enemy. And I think I was at a time in my life and there was just some unhealthy things

and I was in a difficult time and I thought, you know, what I need to do, St. Drastik. And it's not something that I should be anyone else's conviction, it was my conviction. And I think there was so much quiet that came. And I started to read some of Ruth Hailey Barton's books about silence and solitude. And I think I'm just a noisy, wordy person.

And I think I was missing a lot of God, a lot of what God wanted to say to me and do in me. Yeah. And it was almost like a two-year time out, and it was extremely beneficial. And so, yeah, I'm not, I'm not getting social media anything like that at all, I just see that can be a great place for people to connect and sharpen and, and work and do all the things for the glory of God. But for me, I'm just like, this is my conviction. Yeah. And so, yeah, it has been a really good season just to maybe let some other things in that I think God was like yeah can we do this yeah I feel that for myself and we're both sevens on the

innuagram if you haven't noticed that we we definitely in like distractions a very evil thing for me as well and that's how I feel and you know we can set the little timer on our phones and that's what I do but then I just dismiss it and just keep you know just like 15 more oh 15 more minutes, 15 more minutes, you know, so it's one thing to do that and another thing to just say like okay I'm gonna get rid of this distraction and really focus on the things that I know are important in my life and yeah you modeled that really well. So thank you for that and thank you for sharing and sharing, you know sharing the how and the why. I think that I was really blessed as well to grow up in the church and go to a Christian school. Just having the word of God

kind of like implanted in me at a young age is just the greatest blessing that I feel like I've ever been given. I just wanted to talk a little bit about that, about that, just knowing God's Word. And so that when the heart hum comes, it can come out of you because I've seen that in your life. Yeah, I mean, I was brought up like you in a church and they taught the Bible. It wasn't inspo, it was the word of God and it was probably way too much for me to understand at that age, but it definitely put like a passion in me for it to be a priority, but I'm not massively academic. So it's been such a beautiful journey to like knowing it as a child but then understanding it maybe a bit more as an adult

and making that like, I want to know what Jesus means when He says this. And then I find out and I'm like, I have to tell people. Yeah, amazing. But Psalm 119, this is incredible section and it says, how can a young man keep his way pure?

He's asking a question which he answers himself and he says, by living according to your word. And he says, I have hidden your word inside my heart that I might not sin against you. And there's just some beautiful verses after that about teach me your decrees with my lips. I recount all the laws that come from your mouth and we see him saying, okay, we're living here in an impure time in the world, in

an impure culture. So how can I be the man of God that I want to be? And for him, he's like, the lights come on, it's the Word of God. And it's come alive to him and it sustains him. And it's not behavior and modification, it's the living Word of God that sets you free. And then you fast forward to the New Testament. You see Jesus in the desert being tempted by the enemy and he comes at him. He doesn't have a friend to phone, we can't run away from the situation,

he's right there facing down the enemy, saying you are not who you say you are and tempting him with all kinds of everything. And the authority that he stands on and he uses and keeps him focused is the word of God. And it's that hiding it in your heart. And so I'm like, thank you to all the people who spend time recording podcasts like this

to just pass on wisdom and truth. And because we don't need inspo, we need truth. We need truth. There is like rock because anything you build your life on that's sand. Okay, that can be some appealing stuff that it's not going to hold you up in the storms of life and the word of God will. And so anything can get thrown at you and you just go, where is God? Who is God? Who am I? Where am I? And the word of God will orientate you. And that's why God's so kind that he gives us the minor prophets. He gives us the Psalms where real people are saying, God, I'm in the darkness. Where are you?

God, I'm suffering. Will you speak to me? And then you see real people bound the whole lives. Jesus speaks a word and they're free. And I just think there's just so much. And thenverbs for wisdom and there's just everything in between so yeah that's so good how you feel like you always loved the word of God or was there like a moment when you were just like okay this is or did you ask for it I know Beth Moore talks about that she actually kind of noticed other people reading the word of God and loving it and she just didn't feel that for herself at a time and she asked God, really God, give me that and he did. And so I really, I thought that was really interesting.

I love that because there's been times in my life where I'm like, okay, you know, it's like, oh, you know, it's on the to-do list or whatever. And then times in my life where I'm like, I can't stop, you know. How has that been for you in your life in different seasons and different parts of your life? I think for me growing up worship was my thing. I loved worship, it sustained me, I learned about God through it. And then when I was about 18, I just had this radical encounter where I think I'd

been back and forth, you know, just saddling was like, no, this is an all-in moment and I've really encountered God and got filled with the Holy Spirit and that honestly the first thing I wanted to do was go find my Bible and get a highlighter and it was just like the whole thing came alive. I would say that was a gift from God and I'm not academic. And so I would struggle to understand it, but as I've got older and I've started to study it and I've found different people like Dr. Chuck Missler or Beth Moore or Bill Creasy or just all these different people I'd never heard of. I'm like, oh, I get it.

And so I've had times in my life where I don't want to read it. I'm sad or mad with God and I will myself. And then I'm like, there you are. There you are. Showing up, speaking truth. And so I've only ever known it to be something good. That's so good. You mentioned that about worship.

And I remember it's having my life when it was kind of, I guess the first time that I really was like, experiencing a really, I was in a hard time, in a hard place and just worship. And it was a moment where I felt like, you know, it was hard to pray. It was hard to hard to know kind of where to go and worship was so impactful for me in that moment to just be able to like turn all the music and just let the words that someone else is singing be my prayer.

And I love, I love that and your husband Matt, that is what he does and his a lot of his songs, the words that he has written have been just soothing to my soul. And you as well. So you and Matt met through music, right? Through leading worship. Is that right? OK.

I was a teenager and people were playing his music. And I remember thinking, how does this kid know God the way that he knows God? I kept blew my mind and Matt started writing songs when he was about 13, 14 because he found the Psalms and he'd lost his dad to suicide when he was seven and then it'd been in a just horrific abusive situation, it's just terrible. And for him, those songs, almost like writing his own songs, became a lifeline and then put music to them. And then I met Matt when I was 19 and I ended up being a singer in his band, but I never spoke to him. I was just like, this is too awful. And he didn't speak to me. So how are you married? How did that happen?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, one day I just said, I can't be in your band anymore, because I have feelings about you. And so he said, well, I'm not one of those sad people that wants to get married. So you know, it's, you know, no problem there. And so I was fasting and praying.

And then the next day he phoned me up. And he said, I am one of those sad people who wants to get married and I want to marry you. It was a very quick time. Wow. Yeah. So it was zero to a hundred. But yeah, then we just started to, yeah, I remember one of our first dates, he was like, I've written this song called Heart of Worship, what do you think?

Or, I've got a lot of this idea for a song called 10,000 Reasons and just watching these themes boil up and hearing him write a song and like, Beth, come in here, how many finish this or, you know, like what a gift? Like I was the girl in church who was living with just with so much pain and those songs were my lifeline and then God invites me into a story where Matt and I get to write music together that becomes someone else's lifeline.

You know, so often we'll be somewhere and someone will come and say, hey, I've just been to a funeral, I've just been to a bedside, I've just been to it. And you're just like, what an unbelievable privilege. And then in our own pain, you know, we had six miscarriages and we were like, we probably need to just sing to Jesus right now and out of that flow to song and another song and and you know, just just those beautiful moments where you go, how in the world has God done this? And it's just as mercy. I didn't even know that part of your story about having miscarriages and you have five children. So tell me a little bit about that part of your story about having miscarriages and you have five children.

So tell me a little bit about that part of your story and what God maybe taught you in that. Yeah, well we got married quite young. I was 22, about 23 I think. I always wanted to have a big family and we had two children after a couple of years of marriage, a mazionoa, and then we were really prayerful about having a third kid because we wanted to travel with them and we were really prayerful about it and we took some time and we were like, no, we really want to have a third.

I think that's going to be a good number for us and we found out we were pregnant and it was just so joyful. I don't really know anyone who'd had a miscarriage and I remember going for the scan and we're going to find out the gender and it was this amazing moment and and there was no heartbeat and just sitting there not knowing. I don't know if I had a theology for suffering yeah and where is God now and who is God now And how do I go through this? And then, not knowing at that time,

we were going to then have five more miscarriages. And it was going to be a long season of loss and confusion. But I would say, I was dissolution, but I never deconstructed my faith. God just was so close and near. And I would say, we just kept taking the next step. And that's why we have a big gap between our second and our third child. And then we ended up having three children in three years. Oh, is that not okay now? We can stop. So it was a season of loss followed by a season of abundance. And yeah, I'm so sorry to anyone who's experienced that and had to push through and where are you God?

You know, I just had to get to that place of, I'm going to trust you when I don't understand. And you have loved me before I loved you. You were there from the beginning. There's a beginning in Milan and then to this. And I just got a hold on with all I've got and actually turns out Jesus was doing the holding on. No, wow. That's so good. I think about, I think the older I get, the more I just kind of realize that just that that blind trust, I know there's a quote by Mother Teresa that I love that it was this guy who comes up to her and she says to him, supposedly, to the story goes, she says to him, what do you want

me to pray for you? He says, will you pray for me? She says, yes, what do you want me to pray for you? And she says, I want you to pray that I'll have clarity. And she says, I'm not going to pray that for you. I've never had clarity. What I have had is faith. And it was just this moment of like, we don't have to have clarity.

We don't have to know everything or have all the answers or see it clearly. We just have to trust, have faith in God that He does. Trust in Him and His plan for our life. And I remember when I read that, it was just really impactful for me because all the things that God has given us and our family are not the things that we plan for are expected. It's the greater blessings that he has for your life. And just trusting when you are in that hard space and knowing that he is at work and he does love you and he is good even when

you're sitting in that heart space. And I think the older we get, the more we can kind of look back and see it, but when you're in it, it's so hard and not that, you know, I might not be in it again and be in full the same way because that's life. But, you know, from the perspective that at almost 50, you can look back and be in full the same way because that's life. But from the perspective that at almost 50, you can look back and be like, oh, I really didn't need to know it all. I really just need to trust God in his plan

and what he has for us. So talking about that, just talking about thinking about that in our life and seasons of life, I love the perspective which I'm a little ahead of you. So, you know, you're not my age, but I'm a little ahead of you. But just thinking back about seasons of life and what God has for you, I know you've done a lot in your life. But it's, you've had different seasons that you've gone through

I wanted to talk a little bit about that because we have a lot of young people that listen and I feel like Sometimes you can think oh, I'm not where I thought I was gonna be at this time I'm not where are this I want to do this and this and this but I can't do it because I'm stuck here right now and I just love that you know know, we have a lot, we have time to do the things that God has for us and the things that He has planted on us. In us, we'll come to pass in His own time. And so I just wanted to talk a little bit about that with you and how you've seen that at work in your life. Yeah, that's so helpful. I mean, we were made to be fruitful and be productive.

And so we are people who want to work and we want to work hard often. And we have goals, right? And so seasons where maybe you can't quite break through or you feel unseen. In a world that's measured by metrics, unseen can feel so insignificant. And yet you pour through the pages of the Bible and you see people like David like Joseph like Ruth you know these are due a seasons of hiddenness where it feels like nothing's coming together that it's just hard work and no breakthrough and so I can see why that would feel

deflating and disorientating for a young person because so much is measured by likes and popularity and if it didn't go viral, did it even happen. You know, but we serve a God who rewards the secret things. And I would say if you are waiting for that breakthrough moment, you're waiting for that opportunity, just be faithful in the small things, just be faithful in the secret things. And I tell you what, people don't really shout loudly about those, there aren't many trophies for those things, it isn't a round of applause, but there is in heaven. And I would say make your prayer room, your war room, pour out your petitions, your dreams, your longings,

your frustrations, hold your life out into God's hands because commit your plans to God and they will succeed. Whether that's things that get accolade and attention or whether they're things that you're like, nobody knows but God and do them for Jesus. And yeah, I had to write my resume yesterday of applying for Denver Seminole. Please take me. And I was writing out all these things and I was like, oh my goodness, that's, wow, I forgot I did that.

And then there's these long periods of like five years or three years. And I'm like, that looks like I didn't do anything. And they were some of the hardest years of my life. They were some of the years what I felt like because I can't show you what I'm doing. I have no value. That's what the world might say, but I looked at that piece of people and I was like, that's not what God says. I was like, he was dealing with me. He was changing me. He was shaping me. He was refining me.

No discipline seems pleasant at the time. Okay? Yeah. As up, wasn't pleasant, but he was good and it was beneficial. And so I just say if you're in an unseen season, like the Bible would call it, like a cave season, maybe. Just keep looking at Jesus,

keep trusting him. He made you, he doesn't make mistakes, he's given you gifts and talents and a contribution to make. And at the end of the day, if you don't get the likes or the comments or the accolades, God loves you and he is with you. And he will use you for his glory. So just keep placing your hand in his and trust him. That's so good, Beth. And actually this kind of, this is like the end of our conversation. And I feel like it goes full circle back to the very beginning of our conversation where you were talking about those people in your life that are the unseen people, the people that no one is going to know their name, but they had such an impact on your life and on your eternity because of their just faithfulness of God and pouring in.

And yeah, it's the unseen people. It's the things that we do in the quiet. The work of God just does incredible work that we might not ever even know or see this side of Earth, but we will know and see an eternity. So thank you for sharing all that. Thank you for sharing your life. And just for being a just such a dear friend. I love you. And I'm just loving you. Love getting to share you with the one that's good listeners. Thanks for being here. You're amazing. You're doing such a great job. Holding down the fort. You are just amazing. Corey, I love you. Thanks so much. Love you. Bye, friend. you