WHOOP Podcast - Behind the Scenes of The White Lotus with Creator Mike White

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

On this episode of the WHOOP Podcast, WHOOP Founder and CEO Will Ahmed is joined by award-winning writer and director, Mike White, and his trainer Hallvar “Hoho” Sigmundstad, who helped him stay fit throughout the production of White’s hit show The White Lotus. Mike White is an American writer, director, actor and producer known for his award-winning show The White Lotus. Prior to The White Lotus, White wrote and produced Enlightened (2011) and Year of The Dog (2007). Some of his early works include Nacho Libre (2006), School of Rock (2003), Chuck and Buck (2000), Orange County (2002), The Good Girl (2002) and having written 2 episodes of Freaks and Geeks (1999). Mike White has also appeared on the 14th season of The Amazing Race, which he did with his father, Mel. Mike White was also a contestant on Survivor: David and Goliath where he made it to Day 39 and finished in second place. On this episode of the WHOOP Podcast, Will and Mike discuss how Mike came to create White Lotus (1:04), developing and casting the characters each season (3:32), building tension within the narrative (5:02), balancing being a writer and a director (8:24), and maintaining Mike's health during production (12:44). Mike introduces his trainer Hallvar “Hoho” Sigmundstad and his important role in keeping Mike healthy on set (18:14). Hoho explains the top training tactics and methods to combat intense production hours to help Mike maintain his fitness levels (19:20). Will, Mike, and Hoho discuss Mike’s WHOOP stats (21:56), Mike's ability to manage stress on set (25:51), and how Mike created a WHOOP community within the cast and crew (28:58). Mike walks Will through a day in the life of the set of White Lotus season 3 (34:51), assign each White Lotus character with their own WHOOP metric (40:31), and how Mike developed the narrative of White Lotus Season 3 (48:09).Don’t miss the Season 3 finale of The White Lotus this Sunday (4/6) on HBO and streaming on Max. The White LotusInstagramHallvar Sigmundstad InstagramSupport the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

And I was like, I don't think I'll ever not be tired again. I dug like some kind of physical hole for myself. It was scary a little bit. So like, I was like, I got to get in better shape. And so this last season, my buddy turned me on to the whoop. And I got into the whoop because I was like, you know, learning about, you know, whatever sleep habit. You know, just all of the stuff that like the who can, you know,

give you information about what you're doing right or wrong or where you're at. I'm kind of enthusiast. So like when I'm into it, like I start. I got like May 10 or more of the crew. They were all whooping, were all the same whoop group. I think it was helpful because people got competitive. And so like everybody was working toward getting healthy or being as healthy as it could in these conditions.

This season, you'll see it gets very crazy and very plotty. And I just felt like I wanted to cool the Jets at the beginning to let it kind of, you know, where you're just like, let's go, like, where is this going? Then it just goes. Okay, Mike, ho-ho, welcome to the Wooop podcast. Thank you. Thanks for having us.

So, Mike, I'm a big fan of White Lotus. I got to say, it's a pretty phenomenal show you've created. Well, thank you. It's killing me, but it's a lot of fun, too. But, yeah. What was the, like, inception of the idea? Well, what happened was we? We were, um, it was during the pandemic and HBO was very low on content because all their

shows had been shut down because of COVID and they were looking for a show that they, that would have very little risk for that kind of shutdown. And so they came to me and were like, can you come up with a show that's very simple, like almost like a Zoom show, like putting actors on a Zoom or something. And I was, and I was living, I have a place in Hawaii and there's all these hotels that I knew that were basically, yeah, abandoned because of, you know, the travel restrictions. And so then I was like, you know, we could probably take over a hotel, maybe do a little hotel show or something. And I was just, like, eager to get out. I was just stir crazy. So I was like, I was ready to do anything. So, like, it kind of just, it was kind of a flyer, uh, situation. And then it

just, because when, when, when it was released, there was just not a lot of content. And so, I don't know, It just got a lot of attention, and so that was nice. And then it kind of continued on and still going. Still going for sure. I stated in the four seasons in Hawaii, like in early 2021. Your show must have come out shortly thereafter, right? Yeah, we were probably had just, we probably just had evacuated from there. Probably just missed each other.

We were doing some reshoots in early 2021, so you might have just missed us. An amazing theme, I feel like, of your shows, is the depth of the characters. And I'm curious how you go about creating these characters. I mean, that's the thing that's the funnest part for me, is just like trying to, like, get in the heads of different types of people and trying to do something that feels credible. You know, that's nice of you to say, I want people to feel that way. You know, it's always subjective whether I'm successful.

but I, yeah, I don't know, maybe I'm just multiple personality disorder or something, but I just like to express myself through different kind of voices, and that's something I've always liked to do. Do you have favorite characters you've created from the show? I mean, obviously, like, you know, like Jennifer's character was fun to write for her. It's fun to write for somebody that you know. So, like, I knew Jennifer, and I wanted to write something for her, so that was something that, like, you know, enjoy writing in her voice

just because I've spent so much time with her. And it's not her voice exactly, but like, I can see her, you know, saying those lines and stuff. So that's always fun. And then when they, you know, like when she comes on set and she's doing it, I'm like, oh, this is cool. And then, you know, obviously that it was, you know, she was so embraced and, you know, like won all these awards and stuff. It was fun. It was fun to be a part of that. So that's an example where you've got an actress in mind and you're building the character a little bit with the actress in mind.

And then I imagine in a number of cases you've got a character and then you need to cast it. Yeah, mostly it's that. Mostly it's the latter. But, like, in my career, you know, like Jack Black was my next-door neighbor. And so I wrote School of Rock with his voice. And, you know, like, it's certain people that I'm actually friends with. It's fun to write for them.

And then mostly it's just, it's, yeah, I'm auditioning people and trying to find the right person for the role. You know, usually it's a little mix. The guy you got for Armand in season one, I thought that was like a tour to four. performance. Yeah, he was great. I really enjoyed that character. Yeah, he was an audition. I didn't know him before. So that was just, that worked out well. But yeah. I think another thing that White Lotus seems to do, and maybe it comes back to the simplicity of the, you know, sort of origin

story, which is, hey, we're just going to be in a, in a hotel and we're kind of forced to that location. But it feels like you do a great job building tension and just like having a little bit of patience to the show. You know, I watch a lot of shows, to be fair, and most of them don't have these little quiet periods that White Lewis has, where, you know, you're sort of taking in the scenery, or you're watching a character sort of foozle around a little bit. Yeah, I mean, some people are like, this is boring. For me, it's like, I just feel like it's funner to be... Yeah. Originally, the idea was like, the first season, there was very little plot at all. There was like no plot, right?

Like, true, the last two episodes or whatever. So I was like, we should just do it so, like, it's basically just people having dinner, but I was like, you gotta have, you know, like, with the music or something, you just want to feel like there's going to be, like, a huge sacrifice later or something, you know what I mean, like, just amp it up,

almost overblown, where it's like, they're all going to be sacrifice to the gods or something. That was the original intent of the show. And then as time has gone on, it's like this season, you'll see, It gets very crazy and very plotty, and I just felt like I wanted to cool the Jets at the beginning to let it kind of, you know, where you're just like, let's go.

Like, where is this going, you know, like, and then, and then it, then it just goes. And so, like, I hope that the audience has enough patience, because I know that that's, you know, it's like, after this last episode, people are like, come on, let's go. You know, like, I can tell people are, like, ready. But, like, it's kind of fun to, like, draw that. I think it works. I think it works. And it also is, I think it plays with the whole one episode a week.

You can't really binge watch White Lotus, right? Yeah. You got to wait a week. Yeah. And so there is that gradual build. Well, I think it's fun. It's definitely fun as a creator to read. Because like the longer people have between, you know, the episodes and the longer,

yeah, where they're not binging it and they don't have the answers. And this season, we don't, we didn't give the last episodes to. the actors, to the press, to the reviewers, or whatever. It was a debate because it's like, sometimes you're like, oh, well, if they see what we're doing, maybe they'll, you know, champion it more. The longer you, like, drag it out, more people, like, have theories, and they start to build a relationship with the show in the downtime. And so that's kind of fun to watch that play out.

I saw that happening with season two, like around Greg and, like, Tanya and the family dynamic. So I think that was working. I also love your use of these little creatures or gargoyles or whatever. You know, you zoom up on some kind of ominous little figure at a hotel. It was particularly good in season two. I'm trying to remember all those tested moros, yeah. Little Medusas or whatever they were. They're freaky, yeah, those tested tomorrows.

And you've got it going with the monkeys this season. Yeah, that was just kind of. like we got we they were at the hotel so it was like we got a role on these things that was just something that like we yeah just kind of in sight too is there so it feels like you're you're in the back of your mind you're saying i want to create i want to create build i want to i want to make this have like a dramatic energy and then when you get there you're kind of figuring it out as you go a little bit as well i mean you're just saying that you showed up and you saw the monkeys and you're like oh we got to shoot the monkeys you know i'm a writer so like i'm used to coming into it as a writer

so I obviously spend a lot of time on the scripts and make sure the architecture is there but I've had enough experience now as a director where I realize the best stuff it's better if you're flexible and you know if an actor comes and they're not exactly what you thought or how it was supposed to be written

that it's better to kind of like mold it to what you have instead of getting too rigid about what you wrote and the same as with the locations or just as things come all you know it's like You feel like it's, it's, I just find it funer to, um, embellish and create and adjust based on what happens and not get to, I think you make everybody miserable and you're miserable if you get to, yeah, rigid about what you rode and what you're trying to do.

And so, like, it's, I just think it's better to use the place, use the actors, use the, and and be, yeah, flexible while still keep one eye toward the thing you were always trying to do. and the script and all that. Do you think most directors are more rigid in their approach? Well, I think writer directors sometimes have that reputation because, you know, usually writer's directors that come in as writers. They're, you know what I mean? Like, you know, like, it can get very, like, precious or particular.

And then sometimes I think when directors are interpreting, I feel like it's a benefit to have written it because then I can be like, I can check with myself and be like, ah, it doesn't matter, this doesn't matter, or whatever. you know, I can kind of be more loose. I think sometimes directors, I don't know, it's good to be able to be creative in the moment, and sometimes, I mean, great directors can do that.

And then I think that sometimes directors are a little bit, like, intimidated to change things, or they change things because they just, everybody has their own process. But I think one of the successes, or one of the thing I've definitely learned over time just from experience is to, you know, not get to, you know,

Yeah, too precious about what I've written. I mean, I would say, I think it comes through and watching it. Thank you. For a little, there's a certain confidence, I feel like, that's communicated from the show, just in the way that you do kind of space it out. And you leave people, like, wanting a little bit more. And then you also, like, allow the camera to sort of sit on a character for what feels like a second or two longer.

And again, it just feels like a confident thing to do. I just, you know, the truth is, it's funny because when I watch other TV, I'm like, because I don't watch a lot of TV and then I realize how some things are just like, the whole episode feels like a montage or something. Like, I'm like, I don't want to, I definitely don't want to bore people, but I, but maybe, yeah, maybe, you know, it's all. No, I don't, I don't think you're boring people. And I'm sure that, I'm sure that.

I try to pace it up as much as I can, but I like to feel like, in the room and like you're there like as opposed to like something that's totally like poppy you know no i i think i think it's really i think it's really strong and it reminds me again like what do i know about film but it reminds me a little bit of romantic comedies in like the 90s where there was just a little bit more like development and a little bit more reliance on the script and there was like um just sort of like a steadiness of the development if you will where Whereas a lot of shows, like, I don't know, like a Netflix show, it's like just stimulation. You know, you're just kind of like spinning a little bit and-

Well, I think people are doing so many things while they're watching TV. So like, it's like, it's kind of like concentrated watch. It's just something that's very difficult for people in general. Yeah, I agree with you. There's a lot of times where I'm watching something. I'm like, this just is like an assault. Like, I don't even know what's, like, and what's happening, you know, like, I don't know. Yeah.

Talk a little bit about the experience of like, okay, you get the cast and the crew and now you're like taking over, you know, a hotel in Thailand or a hotel in Hawaii. Like, what does that like? Just the experience of shooting it. It's cool. I mean, it's, it's so unique. It's such a, like, when we caught to the Maui four seasons for like a week or so or two, it was just me and two producers and one of the producers' wives. in the entire hotel it was fully staffed because that was pretty amazing but like yeah in general it's like yeah we do buyout so like we kind of take over the whole hotel and that's very you know that's the very cushy part of it i mean for me like i'm very stressed most of the time which probably will be a good segue to the whoop but like i i i feel like i like i see people out there on the beach like the cast enjoying the beach

beach and I'm like that looks cool this is cool but I'm like sitting there like yeah with an n95 mask and like yeah just on you know glued to the set all day and like in yeah and it's in and but even then like ho and I would like you know we got jet skis and tooled around in front of the you know like so it's like it's like there's definitely um fun moments that you're like this is so cool I can't believe I get paid to do this. I can't believe they're letting us do this. And then, but mostly I feel like I'm watching people have those moments from like my workstation,

which is, yeah, different. I picture the cast like having fun during the shoot and laughing. I think it depends on the cast. It depends on where I think the first cast was stoked to just because it was the pandemic. Get the hell out. the hell out and just work and be at Maui and blah blah blah but like the conditions were intense

the conditions are just have always been intense like the the hardest one was this season actually just because of the heat and the elements and so like and basically what happened on the second season was I got so run down afterwards I started working with ho-ho's here who's like my trainer and basically uh and that's how like and I started like being like I need to I need to I need to to like prepare for this physically like this is like I'm going to the Olympics or something because I was so I thought I was after the second season I was like I don't think I'll ever not be tired again I feel like I'll always like I dug a whole like some kind of physical hole for myself and I don't it was really it was scary a little bit so like I was like I got to get in better shape and so

this last season my buddy turned me on to the whoop and I I got into the whoop because I was like, you know, learning about, you know, whatever, sleep, how, but, you know, just all of the stuff that, like, the whoop can, you know, give you information about what you're doing right or wrong or where you're at. And, and then I was just, I'm kind of enthusiast. So, like, when I'm into it, like, I start, you know, like, I got, you know, I had a full, full year of free whooping because I got so many people on the whoop. And so I had, so, like, and Ho Ho Ho is there. And then I got like 10 of this, at least, like, May 10. 10 or more of the crew, they were all whooping, we're all in the same whoop group. And so, like, every morning, it would be like, it was like, you know, oh, you didn't get good sleep out. It was like, I think it was helpful because people got competitive. And so, like, everybody was working toward getting healthy or being as healthy as it could in these conditions. But it also was like a very communal kind of thing. Like, you know, you could always find something to talk about everybody because, you know, you saw, you wake up and see everybody's numbers and be like, oh, yeah.

Bobby sled like shit last night Like his HRV's fucking cratering Like I'm gonna give him shit You know or whatever Is that because it was under such a tight crunch To get the thing shot and and get the thing out of the door? It's like you know I'm directing every episode So I don't have a you know

And the shoots go from day shoots To night shoots back to day shoots And we just shot non-stop I mean this last shoot was a hundred and twenty nine days or something And that's a lot yeah And so it started in February and went through August. And it's just, there's no, there's never a break. I mean, you never, you just are shooting.

And the days are crazy long. They're crazy long. And it's like, and you're just giving, as, as the director, it's very depleting because you're, you're trying to give energy to every, you know, it's a big cast. You want to show up for everyone. And it's just, I don't want to sound like, you know, it's not like, it's not like working in a mine or, you know what I mean? It's like it's, you know, I'm not trying to like, you know, over-dramatize it, but like, yeah, it's, it's, it's extreme, at least from my, I'm not a guy who came into it being like, I want to, you know, I'm not a natural boss personality. I'm, I'm, I'm kind of more of a, you know, creative introvert that can do the job. But like, it's just like I've had to, you know, it's like, it takes a lot. It's not, it's not my natural state. So like, I'm, I'm pushing.

myself to give the energy that I need, you know, to give. So you red line, you get on the whoop, which we love, and then you get hooked up with Ho-Ho. How'd you guys meet? So I was at a gym in Santa Monica, and Mike would be at that gym as well for many years. And, you know, so we've probably known each other for probably a decade almost. And since Mike's very Norwegian in his ancestry, then he was very open. to a fellow Norwegian at the gym so it's easy to connect through that.

Well, also, I'm vegan. I've been a vegan almost 20 years. 20 years this year. Ho is a vegan. And also is very, you know, he's like a trainer-sized guy. You can't, I don't know if people could see over their podcast.

But like, it's like, like seeing somebody who's vegan, who's, you know, looking to, in the world of longevity and the whoops, all the things that we get. It's like putting on muscle, not, you know, trying to stay fit, like, and also somebody who eats the same way I do. I just felt like I started gravitating toward him, and he's a very kind of, like, full, not a trainer who's just like, you know, you go and meet up two times.

It's like more of a full, full managerial health managerial type of trainer. And that was something that I felt like I needed at the time, was just like somebody who's going to, like, give me, yeah, like a full lifestyle makeover, I guess. And Ho-Ho had you diagnosed Mike when you guys first met? Well, Mike was pretty good at being at the gym. Sometimes he wouldn't always be pushing it as hard as he could have. I guess when he came back from that second season, and he was pretty out of shape then.

And I hadn't really been on a shoot like that, so I didn't know where he was coming from. But I saw that, you know, it would definitely benefit him to eat a little bit better. I've been in Italy, in Sicily, for a 10, oh, a year. Maybe too much. Wine and pasta. Too much of that. And then, you know, to be better prepared for the next season.

And I have, I've worked with, you know, I work with some athletes. And it was sort of like when Mike was willing them to kind of like have that approach as an athlete more, where you prepare, you get ready for a season, you don't have a game each weekend, you have a game every day. and having been there now and seeing what he actually has to do every day like how he was like now he's in amazing shape and like how he was able to do the previous two seasons and not be in the kind of shape that is now

is to me incredible because you know the 12 hour days and what he said as well like he's very engaged the whole time when he's on set for like 12 hours he's giving so much of himself in terms of energy and enthusiasm and like to do that over and over again for almost like 130 days and that's only the shoot is like the preparation and everything before is like you need to be an incredible shape and and you know he is now he's been both before the work he put in but also during the season and during the shoot like every time there was a chance to to make you know adjustments

that would improve him if that was through workout or through diet or you know like yoga nidra to get better like you know calm downs at night is open to do anything and you know the result is you know how he got through it in such good shape that he is is you know very impressive i would say well to underscore your fitness you have a resting heart rate of 39 um and an hrb of 104 which you know uh i'm guessing late 40s early 50s how old do you in that i'm 50 i'm 54 thank okay so that's unbelievable resting heart rate actually my my hrb is my average this month is 121 thank you holy smokes yeah bro and yeah this and today yeah it's i it's weird i've been in like in stress mode

finishing the show and ever literally since we finished my HRV has like is spiking I don't know what's going on but it's yeah it's so yeah I don't know why I have such a low heart rate I obviously am in shape but like I think I think it's a

I'm a genetic ally I've had a low heart rate even before I was in in shape but obviously it's better now or more lower. I'm probably going to just stop, stop beating all together at some point. Do you do any types of breathing techniques or meditation or anything like that? Well, this is my problem. Maybe you can help me. Let's go. I just, yeah, no, my problem is I'm, I get in kind of a, I have a lot of

energy and I have, like, I do have trouble, like, you'll see my sleep numbers. You're not, you're not, I'm bragging about my sleep numbers. I have, I have problems with... 75% sleep performance. We could do a little better than that. Yeah. Okay.

Well, the problem is like, yeah, I'm, I kind of run manic and I'm, it's hard for me to wind down. That's, that's something that I'm hoping to tackle in this downtime and try to figure out habits that will help me. Have you ever tried blue light blocking glasses? Yeah, Ho-Hoh gets me on those.

I need to find something with, like, prescription because it's like, I mean, I need to get away from my phone. That would help. But, like, I also feel like sometimes I'll have those on and I keep taking them off so I can read things because I can't. But, like, yeah, I need to do that. That'd be good. I think those glasses are one of the single best wind-down routines. They just naturally make you sleepy. Yeah.

I mean, we did all these tests on them, so we ultimately ended up making our own. But I just found from wearing them that my sleep latency, which is the amount of time that it takes you to fall asleep, got way better. And my quality of sleep got way better. And nothing else changed. I still would look at my phone up until when I went to bed. I would still be in the time. I know, but how do I do it? I need to get some weight.

We'll figure out how to get you a prescription. Yeah, well, it's just, I'm just over the counter. Like, just need a two, like a plus two. But yeah. We can dial that in. But I think that'll make a huge difference because I would imagine you're someone, looking at screens all day. Yeah, I need to get away from my phone in general later in the day because I can get

excitable with just any incoming email can send me back right up to DefCon 4. So that's a problem. What's up, folks? If you are enjoying this podcast or if you care about health, performance, fitness, you may really enjoy getting a whoop. That's right. You can check out Whoop at Whoop.com. It measures everything around sleep, recovery, strain, and you can now sign up for free for 30 days.

So you'll literally get the high performance wearable in the mail for free. You get to try it for 30 days, see whether you want to be a member. And that is just at whoop.com. Back to the guests. Do you find that you're someone who spikes high and low, so to speak, like you'll be screaming one minute and crying the neck? and, you know, sort of all, kind of all over the place with, uh, no, I don't, I don't scream. I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm a screamer. I, but I, but like it's, it's more like I actually, you know,

the thing is that I am a, uh, yes, I'm an excitable person. I get enthusiastic about stuff. I get like excited. So like, I don't experience it all as negative. So like, at the same time, those things are keeping you amped. And if you're running on adrenaline, so it's not, you know, it's like, you know sometimes it's like people like oh well you're stressed and I'm like it's like it doesn't I don't experience it as stress and I feel like just super engaged and super pumped but then it's just hard for me to um you know unwind and so I think that like and also I'm creative and in the night I'm sometimes using the sleep to solve creative questions or definitely stuff and I'm trying to innovate or whatever and so so my sleep is kind of restless in the sense of like I'm kind of

floating in and out and I and sometimes like thoughts will come in the sleep and then I'll be you know trying to write them down or you know like that kind of thing and I've always been that you know I've always done it that way and so like that obviously doesn't lead to great sleep hygiene I'm sorry sorry it doesn't like it's just like yeah so I'm not I'm not great at the sleep hygiene but you know It's like, I really, I never even heard about sleep hygiene until this freaking whoop. And so, like, it's like, now I'm, like, stressing about the sleep hygiene. So, like, I, I, um, but anyway, I'm going to, I'm going to work on it. I'm going to work on.

Now you're doing well, man. I mean, your resting heart rate's 39. This is, you're, you're on the right train, whatever train you're on. It is a good one. Right. But I do feel like, I have hoarer, it takes like a two hour nap in the middle of the day and the nine hours of sleep at night and he's got 100% on this freaking sleep hygiene. And it's like, dang it, a hell.

I want to win that one, too. I never wouldn't sleep in the groups. I'm always at the bottom of the scene. I don't like that. It's okay. You can sort by recovery or resting heart rate. You'll be at the top of those. I know, but let me, I want to be.

Let me ask you, throughout the day, are you drinking a lot of caffeine? Sometimes, yes, I do. Sometimes, I do. I do. I bet Ho-ho won't let me drink it after, like, I have a plant-based caffeine. drink headed this way right now my buddy's getting for me but in general i try not to after like one o'clock or noon okay that's pretty good especially if you're shooting late into the night that you're not drinking no no on the shoots i'm doing it all day i'm drinking oh you are well just because yeah

it's literally yeah i'm running on yeah so but yeah i don't know it's like it's not a good lifestyle for um for for for that kind of thing unfortunately just because it's like yeah that And the days to nights, night shoots, you start, like, at 6 p.m. and go to 6 a.m. It's, like, it's brutal, bro. And if I'm not mistaken, you had a bunch of people on the set wearing whoop, and they were using it to, you know, make sure they're staying healthy throughout the shoot and all that. You know, it was kind of a competitive thing, like a fun, you know, like, and also, yeah, it was a conversation starter.

Like, you know, everybody could talk about each other's. Yeah, I think it did get people to be thinking about. their overall health their overall health in the midst of the very difficult element so that was really it was I mean I would do it again like you know like I I I feel like it was it was definitely a positive it was a big defining of the overall experience I think having the whoops don't you think it was like everybody it just it was like a real like and honestly that's why I'm here today because I just It was like, I, like, I, you know, obviously I like the product, but I feel like it was, um, you know, I've been asked to do it like a hundred podcasts since the show came out. I'm not, I know, I appreciate you doing this one. And I, and part of it was just, I just feel like, you know, the whoop was part of the, part of the reason I got through it. It was like, I think that because for whatever reason I stumbled on this and then got everybody involved, it was like, you know, and something that I learned, you know, and this is something that ho-ho is, you know, beaten into me is just, like, you know, when you're that tired and you're that depleted, the last thing you want to do

is wake up before your call and go to the gym and do, you know, do, you know, it's just like, that sounds crazy. And my entire career, when I've been in production, I'm like, I'm not going to the gym. Are you crazy? And I realized that, like, some of these things that were like, I have to go to bed, like, and like wanting to, like, have my sleep and, like, wanting to get that exercise. it really um it yeah it got me to the end of the yeah the race in a way that i was i'm so much better in shape and like physically in a good place than i was the season before when i didn't have the whoop and i didn't wasn't doing all this shit i you know i i'm a believer in in how this kind of these these things can help make you aware of your decisions and sometimes you're just

like, no, I don't think, I think I won't, you know, go out and have that third drink, you know, or whatever, I need to go take care of myself. And as somebody who likes to have fun as well as likes to work and likes to, like, really embrace the experience. It really was, you know, it's a good, it's a good kind of modifier of behavior. Well, I'm grateful to have you on Woop and, and, and, uh, and hoho and the whole crew. And, you know, in a lot of ways, that's been the evolution of the company's history. Like, we, we started with, uh, the world's best athletes and now for time it's a it's a really broad base of high performing individuals and and it creates a you know a sense of accountability and gets people to get more sleep and take their health

more seriously and often it's hard driving people like you that uh you or me that that sort of tell themselves hey you know i'm okay i don't need xyz or oh yeah sure i can get by if i'm a little hungover tomorrow or whatever and you just allow yourself to get into a pretty deep hole Whereas when you see the data, it's like, okay, well, that is what it is. I'm not going to do this. No, definitely. I mean, I just ran into a guy who runs the show gets color time. He owns this huge company and sees the colorist of all of these huge shows and movies.

And I hadn't seen him in like two years. And he was like all fit, like ripped. And like he's like older than me. He's like 60. And like I saw that he had a whoop on. And I was like, okay, I know what happened. Like I was like, so tell me about. That's your HRV, bro.

So, like, yeah, I think that that's, yeah, that's a great, I mean, it's cool to be a part of a company that's making that, helping people make those kind of changes. Thank you. Ho-ho, it sounds like you guys are, let's see, walking, weightlifting, tennis, running, swimming. You got, you got Mike doing a little bit of everything. Yeah, try to, you know, with the shoot is basically, you know, when is he going to have the energy to do what?

and how is it going to help him, you know, being that health is really important, but it's that the shoot is the most important, where is he going to, when is it going to be ready for the shoot or when does he have to, you know, be energetic and it's all about the shoot, but then to try and also keep it interesting, like, obviously the weightlifting that's in there is a huge part of everything, but it's also, you know, he won't do anything unless he finds it interesting enough to do it. So to keep stuff changing and then not to just do the same thing all over again. And like Mike said, he's, you know, he loves having fun and do stuff. So it's, and I'm very much the same way. So it's, you know, it's a good match in that way. Doing different

new things is fun. So, you know, whatever we could do to mix it up, for sure, 100%. And you've got stage performance on there pickleball, kayaking, hiking, right? A little bit, you got a little bit of everything, man. Well, once,

it was, I, like, sometimes I get really wound up. Yeah. I'll be telling a story, I'll be, I'll literally just be in a van

ranting about something that happened, and then I'll go back and I'll realize I got strained. So then I'm like, I don't know what to put here. So I think stage performance was one time I was in a van, like, bishing about something.

And, like, I was telling some long-winded story about how I was, like, this person was persecuting me. And then when I got back to the hotel, I was like, I got 6.7 string doing that. I was like, I guess it was a stage performance. It was like, so some of it is, like, me approximating. You don't have everything under the sun. You should have a fill in the blank for string. The overall sort of day of a shoot, do you have, like, a sort of huddle with the cast at a certain point in time and kind of like a pump-up speech or is it sort of just business as usual like just do your job you know uh no i

mean we we have like at the beginning at the very beginning of the shoot because everybody comes to the same place we'll have like that kind of dinner where you give them a kind of yeah like a kind of a pump-up speech or something but like day to day it's like it's such a it's such a revolving door of actors i stay there but like the actors move in and out and i honestly don't really want to i was talking to the actors any more than I already do. So, like, it's like, yeah, I mean, it's just like they see enough of me. Yeah, you do sort of feel like to coach, but like I'm just more, I'm not comfortable necessarily in that role.

I'm more kind of like, I feel like I'm like there to like be the funny friend who's observing and kind of like giving feedback and like, you know, laughing at when they're funny. And like, everybody has their different way of coaxing. My way is just like being entertained by them and trying to give them. confidence while still trying to push them in the direction that I feel like might be funnier or more real or whatever it is. Well, I will say I feel like you get a lot out of your actors and actresses. When you're not getting what you need from an actor, what's your way of sort of elevating

what you get from them? It depends. If I'm not getting what I need because I feel like they can't do it, then I feel like it's my job to adjust. if I can't get what I need from them because they refuse to do it or something like that then there's you know then I feel like I need to like come correct and be like what's the deal you know what I mean so every situation is different and I think having experience my philosophy is I feel like I don't like to be a stress case I don't like to be annoying I don't want

annoy people I want the I want the set to be a good vibe and I and I because we live there you know what I mean and it's like I just I don't you know I think what I'm doing is important in quotation marks but I really don't think it's that important I think it's just more you know to me it's a means to an end it's like I don't want to work most jobs this is a job I want to work and I like I like to travel I like to go do you know it's like it's like if we're being able to keep doing it then I feel like I've done my job and like I don't really care about awards I don't care about that I just want to like I just want to like have a good time while we're doing it's like I'm doing it and also in the end be proud of it and not ashamed of it at the you know when it's over so like i try to use that attitude in those moments and like i i believe that you can do good work and stay cheerful or stay you know like i don't get me wrong i don't it's like i you know i get strained bitching in the van on the way home so i'm not like some you know whatever but like i don't like a tense set and i don't like you know i don't like conflict so i figure out how ways to get what I need going around that I don't I just it's just it's just not my yeah it's

seems like you you're you're comfortable working with what you've got versus for trying to force the situation yeah I think it's like and that's the that's the pleasure of being a writer in the very beginning I can stress the actors out a little bit because I feel like it's like it having an instrument and you're playing the instrument to see what noises it makes you know what I mean. So at the beginning, I'll give a lot of notes just to see what they're able to do and like what their spectrum of stuff is. And then after a couple days, I realized, okay, this is who this person is and this is what they're going to give. And then I just kind of try to like lean into the pleasures that they're giving me instead of trying to force something out of

it that is not going to be there, you know? Yeah. Well, it's clearly coming through. I got to ask you about the theme song because people want to know why the theme song changed. Why did the theme song change? Okay, well, you know, Christo, our composer, is he wanted to do something different. And, you know, it's like I like the idea of doing something different. I mean, obviously, you know, you want every time it to become some viral, like, rave, like, hit. But at the same time, it's like, chasing that is, I know it feels like for him, like, as a writer, where you're just like, okay, somehow this last one worked huge. Like, I don't, I don't want to just chase those things because then I'm just, I don't know, chasing a result.

And I just, I like this new tone of it. The show is darker this season. It's a little bit of a moody or piece. The other one was kind of operatic and it kind of fit Italy and, like, have it, like, and so, you know, we could keep playing. that same theme but like it was like let's do something different if you know it's like people are you know people either going to like it they're not going to like it they're going to miss the old

theme but this that's just the nature of you know having something succeed and always having to compare it to that and you know it's people are going to have their opinions yeah I mean it seems like it's it's also matching the new location

and yeah I mean I think I mean it's like you don't yeah I think the next season we'll probably have an entirely different. You know, it's like, yeah, hopefully people will survive the fact that the main theme title hasn't been the same. Let's play a little game here if you're comfortable, which is we're going to take a character from season three, and then we're going to assign some whoop metric to them to sort of describe the character, okay? Can we play this game? This might be an easy one out of the gates, but let's do Timothy, the wealthy businessman who's vacationing with his family.

I think his recovery score is extremely low because he's taking his wife's Larazepam, and he is either sleeping in a, I don't think he's getting deep, yeah. He's got long, he's not getting restorative sleep, but it's not restoring. He's not getting restorative sleep, exactly. We need to raise his restorative sleep. Okay, how about his wife, Victoria? His wife, she is definitely, probably her resting heart rate is high. The resting heart rate is high. Not a lot of strain. Probably very low on the strain.

Yeah, not straining much. Saxon, the ambitious son. Saxon, definitely, he's a gym bro, so I would, probably say he has a lot of he's got some good strain um probably he doesn't have a whoop on in the show but i would like to think that probably now somewhere out there in the world he's whooping i feel like that's a good thing for whoop or a bad thing but like i think he's a we're comfortable with with everyone wearing whoop you know i feel like i saw a character maybe it was more of a background character i'm only three episodes in but i feel like i saw a character

this season wearing a who, is that accurate? Well, it's probably one of our crew members who just slipped into the show but yeah, it's very possible we have, yeah, there was a lot of whoops on the set, so. How about Belinda? Belinda, okay, so she would have probably high

recovery, good sleep, I don't know about strain. She's probably healthy all around. She's in the wellness. She's probably got 30 things in her whoop journal. You know, she's jacking like all these different herbal remedies and things. She's a deliberative journaling.

She does the journaling very dutifully. Let's do the trifecta, those three women. Okay, Jacqueline. I think they're all pretty competitive about their scores. That's what I'm sure about. She probably has the best scores and wants to check in with her friends to make sure her scores are better

than there's every morning. Yeah, for sure. And when you come up with... That's not like me. It does a little bit, actually. When you come up with three friends like this, right? What is like the kernel of inspiration for these three? Because by the way, I think these two are super compelling.

And like, it all works and it makes sense. And it's very believable. And you kind of just want to watch this thing slowly, like, fall apart. But what is the kernel of inspiration for three characters? Well, I, you know, it's like, I, I, I think this is casting, but like, I, you know, like a lot of times with the, with friend groups that they do these, you know, like, women at a bachelorette weekend or those kind of movies, there's always like, there's the pretty one, there's the dumpy one, there's the whatever one. I don't know, they're like, always very, you know, and I find that that's not very true to life that, like, really, you find, when you see, you know, three women walking down the street, you'll be like, I don't, I couldn't even tell you which one is, like, it's almost like a blonde. blob coming down the street and they're all they're all kind of it's like a hydra of six arms of the same person you know i mean like that they're that people are more affiliated toward how they're the

same and or they look let's say they're attracted to this there's the same sameness or something and i was i remember being on one vacation where i saw a group of women like this and i was like you can't even really differentiate who's who and then one would like peel off and then the other two would be left and they would like start talking about the third yeah you're like, and then I'd finally get a sense of who was who. Do you mean? Like, it was like, oh, okay. You know, the show has these sort of Buddhist concepts that kind of like, or as an

organizing principle of it. I was just thinking about doing something I had a little bit of that where, you know, they come in and they're all with the same kind of energy and they're all really like extroverted and like happy. And then like as the season wears on, you realize just how they're, yeah, how different they are and what, but the differences are in their, you know, life choices and stuff. Not how they look necessarily. When you say you like to organize through a Buddhist principle, what does that necessarily mean in execution?

Well, I was just, yeah, just for the stories this season, I was trying to, you know, like I've done whatever. I had my Buddhist self-help phase, and I was just trying to, you know, you're just trying to generate story and having it kind of connect to some sort of thematic idea. And since we were in Thailand, it was just like this idea of identity. as this trap and like different ways to explore that and and so the main a couple stories with you know the family and wampoggins and the three women was just kind of playing with this idea of identity as a as a as this kind of tragic trap for some of them yeah some of the language i've noticed that like the therapists use is clearly like very specific language right Well, I find that true of these, like, wellness places that a lot of them, you know, lean in toward a kind of more, you know, non-Western medicine kind of thing, obviously, and have, you know, some sort of underlying, you know, Buddhist principles sometimes. I mean, a lot of it is very sort of, you know, bastardized for, you know, whatever they're doing. But I, but, yeah, it feels, it feels, it felt true to,

lot of these places, especially a place in Thailand, we'll have that kind of, those kind of therapists. There's a great line, like, to the character, Rick, played by Walton, where the therapist that says something like, well, anger

is, is a mask for sadness or something. And then you see him all of a sudden, like, really wrestling with his identity. Yeah. Well, yeah, I think that that's true. That's sometimes... I think, especially with guys like that like I just say it's like I you know wanted to create this kind of hard-boiled kind of

character who's you know kind of a Jack Nicholson type how you know a lot of those masculine fronting underneath it is you know there's a lot of pain so yeah it just and how like you know you call someone on that you know that underneath like this like kind of bravado this sort of male sort of like rigid toughness or something that they're like you know they're crying about mommy or something you know i think rick we're going to define with with uh consistently high stress score and maybe definitely high resting high it feels like a low hrv character you got a great group of uh of characters this season i'm excited to see how they

uh how they all come together a device that you've used in all three seasons is the sort of starting with some notion of the tragedy right like the first five minutes is someone turning up dead right or or you know a body being taken to a plane is that uh is that a tool that you always kind of knew you would use no i mean it was i mean it worked the first season and then i you know like you're trying to figure out what is the thing that what is what is the show other than it's a hotel and so like it felt like maybe that as a sort of narrative device was the thing that kind of gave it a you know a kind of continuity from season to season um and i i do think that it's if it was just a character character pieces and and it didn't have that kind of hook i don't know if we

you know i don't know if the show would have you know because i've written those kinds of things it's harder to get an audience for that. So I think that it's been, you know, and also it's like, you know, I like touching on, you know, these kind of what, what creates a tragic situation, ultimately, you know, amidst these other stories that are just kind of more slice of life. Well, it's interesting. This season has a little bit more intrigue in the sense that it opens with, you know, gunshots, and then it seems like maybe there's a dead.

body or two. But so then you're left with this question of, well, like, who's shooting the gun, as well as you're left to the question of who the bodies are or, you know, I feel like, something about Thailand, I was like, I think this season is a little bit more like who's, yeah, like who's the killer as a bunch as it is who's going to die, you know. Well, this has, this has been great, man. I have to say, I love the show. It's, um, awesome.

No surprise that it's doing, um, doing really well. Thank you, man. and uh that's out out now on uh on hbo or do we have to call it max uh you can it's on hboh and max it's on max streaming and hbo the cable network where can folks uh find you if they want to learn more about the great mike white um wikipedia i don't know i'm not i'm not just watch watch your show okay fair enough yeah i'll uh just yeah like um Yeah, you try to hunt me down, but... Try to find you in a whoop group, maybe.

Yeah. Ho-ho? Well, it's my... It's my real name, which is not Ho-ho, Holvar, Sigmundstad, at Instagram and TikTok. All right. Well, season three, White Lotus, out now on HBO. If you enjoy this episode of the Whoop podcast, please leave a rating or review. Check us out on social.

At Whoop, at Will Ahmed. If you have a question, what's he answered on the podcast. podcast, email us, podcast at whoop.com. Call us 508, 443, 4952. If you think about joining whoop, you can visit whoop.com, sign up for a free 30-day trial membership. New members can use the code will, WI-L, to get a $60 credit on Woop accessories when you enter the code at checkout. That's a wrap, folks. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next week on the WOOP podcast. As always, stay healthy and stay in the green.