WHOOP Podcast - Chasing Greatness: Maria Sakkari on Mental Health, Longevity, and Tennis

Episode Date: January 8, 2025

On this week’s episode, WHOOP Founder and CEO Will Ahmed is joined by global tennis star Maria Sakkari. Will and Maria discuss Maria’s journey to becoming a professional tennis player (1:38), the level of independence in tennis (5:55), becoming the #3 player in the world (7:01), how Maria prepares for a big match (7:57), what Maria tracks to be her best (16:58), Maria’s WHOOP data (16:58), some key lessons Maria learned from her injury (20:19) and how to increase longevity as an athlete (23:09). Will and Maria also dive into the importance of protecting mental health as a professional athlete (25:51), Maria’s experience playing Serena Williams for the first time (33:44), and some rapid-fire questions (36:42). Resources:Maria on InstagramMaria on XFollow WHOOPwww.whoop.comTrial WHOOP for FreeInstagramTikTokXFacebookLinkedInFollow Will AhmedInstagramXLinkedInSupport the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

I'll just picture myself hitting a nice shot or, you know, playing a nice point. And then I've noticed that the result has been very successful to me because every time I do it, I just feel like I've been winning all those big matches against all those very big opponents. And then I feel like when something works the right way for you, don't change it. Like, I mean, it's always good to try new things. At the same time, it's been, you know, successful. So why change it? Hello, folks.

Welcome back to the WOOP podcast. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of Woop. We're on a mission to unlock human performance. If you're thinking about joining Woop, you can visit Woop.com. Sign up for a free 30-day trial. That's right. It doesn't get better than free. That's a good deal.

On this week's episode, I'm joined by professional women's tennis star, Maria Sokery. Maria is one of the top female tennis players in the world and is one of the most accomplished Greek tennis players of all time. She achieved a world ranking of number three, which is the highest any Greek female has ever done. We discussed committing to tennis at a young age. Maria followed in the footsteps of her mother, who is also a pro tennis player, reaching the highest ranking of any Greek woman, Maria's match day routine in how she prepares. We touch a lot on visualization techniques, how Maria uses whoop, rehabbing and dealing with injury,

mental health and longevity, and Maria builds the perfect women's tennis player. If you have a question, what's to answer on the podcast? Email us, podcast at whoop.com. Call us 508-443-4952. Here is my conversation with tennis sensation Maria Sokery. Maria. Will, so nice to see you. Welcome to the Whoop podcast.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I've admired your career and your fitness, especially, from a distance for quite some time. So I'm excited to sit down with you. I'm excited to be here and thank you for having me. It's a great opportunity, you know, to be here with you today. We were just talking about travel. I mean, you travel 42 weeks of the year, if I've got that right.

Yeah, I mean, in a good year, we can travel from, like, I would say, 38 to 42 weeks a year. Tennis is pretty intense, I have to say. What do you find, like, helps you, you know, deal with all of that jet lag and different time zones? Whoop helps me. Yeah, I mean, easy answer. I mean, you know, what, we're used to, you know, changing time zones and just, you know, traveling from Asia to America or from Australia to Europe, it's just something that we've done, you know, our entire career, basically. And I feel like it's something we're used to it by now. But obviously, it's never easy, you know, having to change, you know, a hotel room every week or having to change your bed. I mean, you know, because you've done the research behind it. So you know how tough it can be, you know, for our body or for our performance. And it's just that it's a lifestyle that is very, very demanding, but at the same time,

it's very nice. You've been a professional tennis player your entire career now, and you grew up in Greece. And when did you first have a racket in your hands? I think I was five years old when I first started playing. So it was 24 years ago. Wow. Yeah, it's been some time. Was it like love at first sight, or was it something that you had to grow to love?

Well, you know what? I was a very, you know, competitive kid and a very athletic, I would say. You know, you see pictures of myself when I was four or five and you could see, you know, the muscles like I was very strong. So my parents knew that I was going to be, you know, a good athlete. They just didn't know what kind of athlete I was going to be. But, you know, my brother used to play a little bit for fun like twice a week. So then I just started playing because of him. And it ended up being, you know, um, a career. And your mom's a professional tennis player as well, right? She was, yes. She was top 50 in the world. So she was very successful, yes. And what's that like having your parent be a professional athlete? It was great and it's been great because especially tennis because it's very, you know, tough and very, you know, demanding and in a way, you know, mentally, you know, very tough sport. having someone in the family that actually has been there, has done that, and, you know, can actually feel for you. It's been very important to me, you know, growing up, having her by my side. So I'm just very lucky to have her by my side and also not just her, you know, my entire

family. Was there ever a moment where you're like, you know, mom, I just don't know if I should do this. Like, this is like the worst. Too much. It's too hard. Well, when I was 18, I told myself and I all my parents that I was going to give it a go for two years and then see where I'm at when I was 20. And if, you know, if I wasn't happy, I would just come to a university here in the States. But when I was 20, I was playing Grand Slam qualifying. And then I qualified for my main row, for my first main draw in the Grand Slam. So I was like, I'll give it a try. I'll give it a go. And then, you know, a few years later, I was number three in the world. And pretty good start. So So at 18, what did you accomplish at that point to say, all right, I'm going to do this?

I wasn't, you know, a great tennis player at 18. I wasn't like one of the best juniors in the world. I was just, I had that belief. I was just very, you know, very confident on myself that I can make it. And I was just, I was very lucky to have, you know, very good parents growing up that supported me financially and not only that they said, you know what? That's what you want to do and you can go ahead and do it. and we'll be here for you.

So that gave me, you know, the choice of just becoming who I am today. So I'm just very grateful, you know, of the journey I've had since a very young age. Tennis is one of those sports where you're uniquely alone out there. I mean, you don't even really talk to a coach in between, you know, points and games and sets. Like, it's as far as individual sports go, it does feel like you're really alone out there. there? I mean, it has been changed a little bit. It's, it's been a little bit different. The last few years, you know, they're trying, you know, to have coaching, you know, be part of our game because I feel like it wasn't kind of fair. We were the only sport that coaching was not allowed in a way.

Totally. So that has changed a little bit. It's been very helpful. And everyone's using it, to be honest. It's something that, you know, it's been there all this time, but now it's officially legal and it's not like you're given a point penalty or a warning like before. It's a very challenging sport because, as you said, we're just, you know, it's an individual sport. You go on the court, you don't know how many hours you're going to be playing, but I think that tennis is a very, you know, nice sport to watch and also to play. So you're number three in the world at age roughly 21, 22. No, that was back in 2022. So I was 27. Okay, 27. And that's the best that a Greek woman's ever been. Which was huge, I mean, for myself, for my family, for everyone back home. So, you know,

tennis grew because of myself and Stephanos. Having two players being top three in the world at the same time was something huge for our country. Has it been surreal for you to have fans? I mean, it's been kind of, you know, different the last few years, even coming here in the U.S. because people love tennis here. And, you know, their recognition and everything, you know, that the love I've been getting from the fans around the world has been incredible. And thinking that it's because of what you have achieved,

just makes it very special. Let's talk a little bit about the preparation, you know, before a big match or a big tournament, I mean, even against a certain competitor, I imagine you've played against the same people over and over again. What are certain things that you'll do to prepare for the match, you know, in the hours leading up to it? One thing that comes for free is sleep. Sleep is the number one thing that, you know, it's something that I always, you know, I want to sleep like eight to night and hours before I match because that's very important to me. And I feel like that's very important to every athlete.

I'm not good with naps, like I don't like to nap before a match, because I just feel like very sleepy, like very slow, like my reaction is not the same going into a game. Good food. I'm very spoiled with food coming from Greece, as you can imagine. Great food, by the way. Yeah, Greek food and great food. Yeah, it's great. I'm very spoiled in a way, as I said, but those are two things that I always have in mind, you know, before a big tournament. are a big match. I need to eat well and sleep well. And then, you know, other things like treatment or ice bath. Those are things that are like, you know, easier to, you know, to get, I would say.

So you'll occasionally do ice bath before a match or you'll only do it after? I would do it after most of the times or after a practice. Let's say I'm, you know, I have a practice day and then the next day it's a match day. I'm for sure going to do, you know, my ice bath. the day before and after my match. How long will you do it for? Eight to ten minutes. Oh, that's pretty long. How cold is it?

It depends on the facility, you know. They can have it Celsius, I would say like 10, 12. What is that in Fahrenheit? 50 degrees. Okay, so I do it at 40 degrees Fahrenheit. So what's that in Celsius? Four degrees. That's very cold.

Yeah, cold. For how long? I do it for three minutes. Okay, every day. I probably do it now four or five days a week. That's good. When you wake up? I do it in the morning often.

But I'll do it after workouts. So like this morning I woke up, worked out with my trainer, then do a sauna, then do a cold plunge. Okay, that's good. Yeah. If you can do that every day, I think that's great for your body. Yeah. Although it's interesting, we've seen research to suggest that doing cold plunge after lifting weights can actually reduce the benefits of lifting weights. Have you heard about that? That's good to know, actually. Yeah. And this

kind of gets back to the difference between me and you. Like, I find that I'm doing cold plunge in large part because I like the mental benefits I get from it. Like, I just feel more alert throughout the day. It makes me a little happier. No, it does really help. Like, and you feel your body really well. Like, you feel relaxed. You feel like energized. You feel good with yourself. Totally. But there's, there's evidence to suggest that the reduction in inflammation, is not always good. So it might be good for a performance standpoint, like the way you do it. So, you know, you're doing a cold plunge the day before you have to do a performance, like, or a big match.

But there's evidence to suggest that, like, if you do it right after lifting weights, it actually might affect your body's ability to rebuild the muscle. Okay. Yeah. That's interesting. What about, like, after a cardio session? I think it's better in that case. Yeah.

I do it after playing squash. too all the time. Okay. But again, it's, I think it's in part because I've kind of gotten addicted to doing it. Like, I just like the way it makes me feel. Because it gets really cold here in the winter. It gets very cold, boss. Yeah. So how do you do it? Like, is it indoors or? Yeah, I've got, well, actually, I've got them now kind of everywhere I go. So my squash club has one. We've got two here at the office. I've got one at home. So, you know, kind of wherever I go, there's a cold plunge. There's no excuse. Okay. Well, you're privileged because, you know, I cannot carry it with me all around the world.

You have to rely on the facilities. So, I mean, our federation, you know, always has one for us, which is great. Big Term is like U.S. Open, Australian Open have, like, great facilities that we can use. And they have sonas, ice baths. They have everything. Will you use the sauna? Sometimes I do. I'm not a huge fan because I have to take off all my jewelry.

So then, yeah. But I do like, you know, the hot and cold combination a lot. Yeah. That's the routine. I like to do is you do a hot sauna and then a cold plunge. But I do think there's a, again, there's a performance question mark with sauna too because they can really dehydrate you. And so when you do it, right? Yeah. I don't know if I were you, if I would do it, you know, the day before a big match or something. No, I think that's not, you know, a good idea, especially

because we play in very hot conditions in a lot of tournaments, like we play in Australia during the summer. So it can get very hot there. So I think going, into a sauna when it's like boiling hot outside it's not a good idea but um there's certain you know times of the year where I feel like it's a good you know good thing to do now you've got great fitness routines that you you know show off on social media and all that will you do different weight exercises on the day of a match I usually you know what I do I'm I do a good warm up then I go play my match and then um I go back to the gym after my my match let's say I have a day off the next day. I will lift weights right after my match and then just do a different, you know,

fitness session on my day off, which is not going to be, you know, so much weight lifting. It's going to be more of like explosive exercises so they can prepare me for my game. I feel good when I lift weights. Like some tennis players don't like to do it, but I just feel good with my body. I feel fast. I feel like energized. I feel like explosive. So I'm not going to go and do like, low squats and deep squats and like, you know, all the heavy weights, but I'm going to do more explosive during a tournament. With practicing tennis, I mean, squash and tennis are very different, but there are some similarities. And I had this unbelievable squash coach when I was at Harvard. And this thing that he was harped on, he would train the best players in the world.

And the thing that he was harped on was to make sure that the sessions you're doing are super high intensity and that you don't have sessions that go on for too long. And then all of a and the quality goes down. Yeah, that's, yeah. Is that something you think about too? I think it's the same with tennis because I feel like it's kind of like a waste of time being on the court but like not being, you know,

being there at the same time. Like you need to put in 100% of your intensity. And if that's for like an hour and a half instead of two, that's a lot better than just being on the court and playing in a low intensity because you're never going to play a tennis match in low intensity, especially on a top level. So the more you can maintain a high intensity, the better it is for yourself.

So I feel like, yeah, tenseness and squaws can be different, but at the same time, they have some similarities, I would say. Yeah, absolutely. What are other things that maybe you're tracking about your body or your lifestyle or your routine? I know you've been on whoop for a while. Yeah, I've been with whoop for the last three years, I would say, maybe even a little bit more than that. I'm a huge fan of like looking and checking out my strain in my strain.

I've had 20.6, which was my highest one after the Olympics this year. Yeah, that was high. That was very high, yes. And I've won my biggest title being in the red the entire week. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. You know what? I don't drink any alcohol.

Never? No, like I'll have like one drink a year or two. Okay. So that's like almost never. Yeah. But I do know that from other people, let's say from my brother who's, you know, he's not an athlete if he goes out and have a drink, you know, it's bad in your loop data. Yeah, it is very bad. Like, you can see the difference.

So I do like to, you know, to check out my sleep and see like in what, let's say, if I'm on higher altitude, if my sleep is going to be affected and how is my recovery going to be on that day. Do you find it as affected? I do. Yeah. especially the first days. Yeah, I mean, I probably don't adapt as well as you do, but I find that altitude is one of the things that affects my body the most. It does.

I mean, it's... It crushes me. Like, I'll be in the red for three days, even if I'm very well behaved. I mean, it's, there's some things that you cannot really control, I guess. Totally. Let's say, when I play in Mexico, because Mexico has a lot of places on high altitude, I can really tell from my whoop data. So there's things that we cannot control, but we have to accept and we have to do things

that are going to help us get our recovery back on the green again. You shared some of your whoop data with us. So you're getting over seven and a half hours of sleep every night, which seems pretty good. Is that good as you being the founder? Is that a good thing? I think it's good, especially as a professional athlete. and your sleep efficiency is very high, 92%. So that means the time that you're spending in bed,

you're getting high quality sleep, which is great. I'm a good sleeper, I have to say. And I get the sense that it's probably on nights that you want to get more sleep, I have a feeling like nights before matches, it's even higher than this number because this is an average. So it's going to include your worst travel days and all of that. So I think that's actually a pretty encouraging number. sleep performance, 83%. So here's how I can tell that you travel a lot. Your sleep consistency is 65%. And, of course, that's just looking at going to bed and waking up at the same time. If you're going across time zones all the time, it's virtually impossible.

I'm a very bad sleeper in, like during like during flights. Okay. In the airplane, I just cannot sleep. Have you ever tried taking anything while you're on a plane? Melatonin, that's the only thing I've tried. Your recovery days, so you spend 47% of the time in the green, 50% 50% in the yellow, 3% in the red. That signals to me that you're great at training. Because, you know, if someone's training a lot, they actually are going to end up spending a good amount of time in the yellow. But you almost are never in the red, which is pretty encouraging. It is. Even though I'm in the 1% club. Okay. 1% club. What did you do to earn both badges of 1%? So COVID vaccine? COVID vaccine. Yeah, that's a bad. Yeah. And then the second one was when I won a big tournament. I just, I didn't go out or anything. It was just, I was so happy. Like, I was just couldn't believe that I had won. I had to go from Mexico to Japan the next day. So it's, yeah, I was just, you know. Your body was crouched. I was crushed. I had to pack, like, my bags, because I didn't have so much time. So then I just woke up. I was on the 1%. And then I managed to sleep.

Like another hour later in the day that, you know, I think I went up to 3% or 4% recovery. Your HRV of 84 is in the top 20th percentile for other women on whoop your age. It's probably in the top, you know, 1% if we looked at all women on whoop. So that's good. That's a good thing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, for sure. Don't worry.

I feel like I'm now going through a test. I'm just reading off some of the stuff they printed out. Your strain, it says, is 11.6 on average over the course of the last 90 days. So to me, that would signal you probably have some days that are very high, and then you take days off or travel days. Well, if I've been injured for the last two and three months, I would say. So, you know, I haven't been playing tennis. I'm sure it's going to be a lot different once they start playing, you know, matches and stuff.

than like recently all I've been doing was rehabbing and just going to the gym and just focusing on my shoulder. Has there been anything that you've learned from being injured or in general do you just hate it? In general, I hate it. It hasn't been a good time. But at the same time, I've had the chance to do things. I wouldn't have the chance to do them if I wasn't injured. Like, see my family, see my friends, just spend some quality time with them, just do some awkward stuff, you know, being here with you guys today. Like, I wouldn't have a chance if I was. on the tour. I try to look, you know, at the positives of being injured and just saying, you know, okay, you know, I'm injured. I cannot play for now, but, you know, just take advantage of the time off

and from not traveling like crazy around the world and just being home and just doing things that you like and things that you haven't had the chance in forever, I would say, to do. So it's been challenging time, but at the same time, it's also been, you know, a good time, you know, for my personal and for my mental health, I would say. I've talked to a lot of professional athletes about injury, and I've been surprised by how many of them have said that their injury while they, I think similar to how you describe it, they hated being injured,

there was something that came from that process that they found actually helped them be a better athlete in the long run. Now, this is assuming it wasn't a really debilitating injury, but something that, you know, they could come back from in six months or something. Well, thankfully, you know, I haven't. My injury wasn't, you know, as bad as, you know, I thought. But, you know, at the same time, I had to, you know, stay out of competition for the rest of the season. But it's exactly what you said. Like, you can learn things. You can improve. You can get better as a person. You can actually think of what is best for you to do moving forward. Like maybe practicing six hours a day at the age of 29 is not, you know, the right thing to do. I'm not 20 anymore. So. It's not like I'm old, but I'm not, you know, a baby anymore. So you'd play for six hours? Like in preseason, I would spend more than four and a half hours on the court plus gym.

So that seems to violate our, you know, high intensity. Yeah, it wasn't very clever, I have to say. I think that's what partially got me injured, you know. It was also my body saying, you know, Maria, you have to stop. You have to take a step back. Will you have some kind of feedback loop to your coach or your trainer from that? Like, hey, you know, we've got to dial it back a little more. Yeah, I think that everyone was, you know, a little bit shaken and felt like, you know,

we have to do things differently moving forward because, you know, if I want to last long, you know, I want to play for another four or five years, you know, I have to like be nicer to myself and nicer to my body and just not, you know, overdoing things, I would say. Are there certain athletes that you look up to or you talk to about longevity? Well, obviously, Janice has been, you know, a role model for me. I've chatted with him, you know. It's very interesting to see, you know, obviously he's a male athlete. It's different being a female and a male athlete because, you know, I want to have a family

at some point later in my career or as I was telling you earlier, like it's very tough, you know, having a family while you're an active tennis player. So that's something, you know, I don't have in mind. But I feel like, you know, watching all those documentaries and like speaking to people, speaking to other athletes, like taking care of yourself and of your body, it's actually the best thing you can do. And like investing in your body is actually the best thing you can do for yourself. Not only for your career, but also for your health, like moving forward.

Getting older, like you're going to feel better with your body. You know what's right for you. What's not right for you. So I feel like I've been learning a lot. What are a few of the things that you've learned from WOOP? Well, the main thing I've learned from WOOP is just taking the right steps, like taking time off when you have to, or, you know, now you can push a little bit more. Or having the data in front of you has, like, has been very helpful for me and for my team.

Like, you know what? My recovery has been very low for the last few days. Maybe we've been doing more than we had to. Or, you know what? I haven't been sleeping well. Like maybe, you know, we have to reduce our practice load for the next few days. So I've been checking my whoop every day since I've been wearing it. And I have to say that I wasn't very, you know, careful with it during last summer

because I was just, we had the Olympics. I wanted to do well in the Olympics. I wasn't like nice to myself into my body. But I would say in general, like I've been so healthy in the last few years that it's actually been so helpful to me. That's good. And you feel good. I do feel amazing.

I don't feel 29. I feel 23. So sometimes I even ask my mom and I'm like, are you sure I was born in 1995? Because I feel a lot younger than I actually am. What's up, folks? If you are enjoying this podcast or if you care about health, performance, fitness, you may really enjoy getting a whoop. That's right.

You can check out whoop at whoop.com. It measures everything around sleep, recovery, strain. And you can now sign up for free for 30 days. So you'll literally get the high performance wearable in the mail for free. You get to try it for 30 days, see whether you want to be a member. And that is just at whoop.com. Back to the guests. You mentioned mental health a couple times.

What does mental health mean to you? Well, it's super important to us because from like the smallest thing, like from traveling so much, from like being away from our families. Like I see my team more than I see my family. or my friends or my boyfriend or whoever. So, you know, having the right people around you is going to help you mentally and it's going to, you know, have you being more of a stable human being. You know, it's very important because I feel like your mental health can affect your body. So everything is connected and it's actually scary when you realize that.

I've been, you know, very lucky to have the right people around me all those years. So I feel like, you know, it's a chain that everything is connected. Is there anything you do specifically for your mental health? Do you have any meditation practice, breath work, visualization, gratitude practice, any of these things? Well, visualization has been huge for me. Like, I've been working with a mental coach for the last six years, I would say, different ones. But I've been working on myself the last six years, which has been huge for me. And I've noticed that visualizing, you know, my upcoming match or visualizing myself,

on that specific court against that specific player or opponent has given me, you know, huge result. Or I overcome stress that way. So it's been, it's been very helpful. And I just love the fact that, you know, I'm always trying, you know, to find different things that are going to help my performance. It's been fascinating to me how many professional athletes have met do visualization. I would say it's most. And I'm curious when you do visualization, do see yourself through your own eyes or do you see yourself in the third person? Is it first person or third person? I would say third person. Which is interesting, right? So you're seeing yourself playing versus you're seeing it through your own eyes. I like to do that with myself because

sometimes it's not easy because I tried to do it in the locker rooms before I go out and play. Sometimes like I have to be in the shower and do it because I don't want to have other people around me. You know how to see you. Yeah, I don't want to. Because I want to take my time. I want to be by myself. And sometimes you have like 100 players around you. So you're like, you know what? I'm just going to go into the shower like and visualize, you know, myself playing. And I've had some of my biggest wins like that. Like when I played the US Open semifinals, I picture myself right now. It's just sitting with my towel in the shower, just visualizing myself playing on Arthur Rush. And it was, it's been successful, I have to say.

Yeah. Is it a very specific visualization where you'll play out the points and you'll see yourself shaking hands with your opponent and you'll see yourself bowing to the crowd and these sorts of things? Or is it as simple as just like you're now seeing yourself playing in the next round or, you know? Most of the times I'll just picture myself like hitting a nice shot or, you know, playing a nice point or just doing something I enjoy in the tennis court. And I've noticed that the result has been very successful to me because every time I do it, I just feel like I've been winning all those big matches against all those very big opponents. And then I feel like when something works the right way for you, like don't change it. Like there's no, I mean, it's always good to try new things. But at the same time, it's been, you know, successful. So why change it?

Have you ever visualized really negative things to almost? like overcome them happening? Not visualized negative things, but I've had negative thoughts like everyone at sports and not only in sports in life. And, you know, there have been moments where I wouldn't be able to overcome them. And I've had, you know, bad, you know, moments and bad periods in the season. But then I feel like your real strength really shows up when you have those, you know, tough moments and when you can, you know, overcome.

them and find a way to overcome them. So for me, entering the top 10 was a blessing and being a top five tennis player was amazing. But, you know, at the same time, I've had those moments where I was like, I need a break. I don't want to be here. How am I going to overcome this? And then I somehow, you know, found the strength. And, you know, I did it. I interviewed Alex Honnold, who was who was who were talking about visualization. And he told me that he actually would visualize all the ways he could die doing the climb and his that's interesting yeah and it was so different than anything i had heard really around visualization because most of the time you you hear people talking about okay i'm going to visualize it going really well and he actually did

the opposite like he he also visualized all the horrible things that could happen in the detail of like him describing how he would if he fell at a certain place he knew he would bounce a few times before he died like it really like you know pretty intense and yet he said that by doing that he felt like he had gotten it out of his system and so that when he went up there he was fearless he was fearless and so there i don't know it just made me rethink visualization a little bit when i was listening to him that's that's very interesting because i've spoken to like racing drivers let's say or like people that are around racing drivers and the things they tell you like they they know that they can die and you know it's just that there's there's a danger around their sport like we don't

have that danger okay there's different things that can happen on a 10 score but we don't have you know that aspect of you know of the game and I feel like it's it's interesting because I cannot relate to what you just said because it's something that you know I've never even thought about it but probably you know there's people that you know they overcome fear like that what we can all relate to is the idea of how much we picture failing or not. And I would say I don't do a lot of that. Like when I am picturing like or any kind of visualization or I meditate every morning, but, you know, I'm visualizing things that are very positive. And it's just, it's an interesting frame to think about a bunch of negative things. Well, probably that's why you've done so well until today. So,

and that has worked really well for you. Yeah, it's worked, really. So I'm not going to change it. too dramatically. Yeah, I like this story, though, about you, you know, finding your space, so to speak. Will you ever find that you're doing these practices like the day before, thinking about it ahead of time, or do you really want to do it right before? I don't want to do it the day before because I just want to disconnect and not think of the match because I'm a person that I'm an overthinker. So I feel like once I start thinking of the match, then I just, I won't stop. You'll be fixated on it. Yeah. So I feel like trying not to think of the match is actually something that has been very, very,

helpful and very successful in my career, but sometimes, you know, you just struggle to, you know, stay away from it. And, you know, when you have a big match, you're going to think about it the day before. And you're going to have, like, when I had to play Serena for the first time, I just couldn't sleep. I remember I sent that long message to my coach the night before it was during the bubble after COVID in 2020. We were in New York. So it was like two or three 3 a.m. and I sent him that long message and I was like, what if I fail? What if I cannot, you know, compete against her? I ended up beating her for the first time. Then she beat me two weeks later. But you just have all those thoughts that you cannot get away from it. Was it just the

elevated feeling of, okay, I'm competing against one of the best women to ever do this? Was it that you just really wanted to win that match? Like, what was it about Serena Williams? I think it was a combination of both, you know. I wanted to beat the best because I was playing good tennis. I wasn't top 10. I was like top 20 at the time. But you felt you could win. Yeah, I felt like I could win. We were playing without a crowd, which was very sad in a way because I beat Serena Williams and I only had my coach clapping at the end of the match, which was kind of sad, but at the same time, you know, it was the reality. We played the Cincinnati Open in New York. at the same facility as we played the U.S. Open because we were in a bubble for a month.

So then a week later we played the U.S. Open and played her in the fourth round. And I remember I was up a break in the third set and I lost the match. And it was, you know, I would say combination of both because I didn't know if she was going to outplay me or if I would be able to, you know, beat her. And it was just the unknown that was actually scary. what's her perception to other women's tennis players she considered very intimidating you know very down to earth like what's the take on serena i mean listen she's the goat like for me she's the best female athlete that has ever been you know like not just a tennis player

like for me like what she achieved and i think like female sport has grown because of her so having the chance to be around her, you know, in the locker rooms and everything was just huge because you could see how she, you know, she ease as a person. She was always, you know, nice to everyone, but also distant at the same time because she was just focused on herself. Yeah. To me, I've had practices with her and stuff. She's always been amazing, very nice. But you, you could see that until the end of her career, she just wanted to be the best. And she wouldn't allow anyone to think something, you know, less than that. Yeah, it seems like she had a unique intensity and commitment that's consistent with the few other athletes who have achieved what she's achieved.

She came back, you know, after having a baby, and I admire her for doing that because she didn't have to. She achieved everything before that. And then she still wanted to, you know, come back and show everyone that, you know, she's the real goat. And I think that even that, she took it a step further because she won an Australian open being pregnant. So, I mean, that was pretty, you know, that was, that was awesome. And, you know, I just, I feel very lucky to be, you know, to be part of, you know, a small piece of her career, like playing her twice. It was, it was actually huge. Okay, I've got some more rapid fire questions for you.

Great. Let's do it. What would be your recommendation to women who want to get into weightlifting? That they should do it and that just focus on that, do it. It's going to help their physique, their health, and it's going to be only a good thing. What are your top three recovery modalities? Stretching, massage, and cold plunge. Those are the three to bounce back.

Perfect match day meal. chicken rice avocado it's very simple but it's you know it's what i need before a match does the trick will you eat anything during matches yes um bananas are you know a go-to thing for tennis players um i'll have like um like gels or like gummies or like my sports drinks and my i mean acid's everything like all this stuff yeah we're going to build in your opinion the perfect women's tennis player okay so we're going to go by different strokes here so serve serena forehand um serena okay backhand i would go with coca gov coca gov yeah volleigh uh folly uh steffie graff oh good one yeah uh drop shot uh on's jobber

Wow. Mental. Who's very mentally strong? I would go with egosrientic. And fitness. I'll go with myself. There you go. I have to take something for myself. I like that. When you land in a new city, what's the most important thing to do to get on the right time zone? Sleep. But, I mean, whatever.

else just sleep i would say yeah your favorite sport to watch outside of tennis um basketball i like basketball a lot do you have a favorite team NBA team or i have to go with the bucks i mean i know we're in boston but i have to support the greek the greek freak and and what have you learned from yannis he once said always want more but never be greedy and that's something i will always have with me in my career because it's super important to, you know, have that mentality and that, you know, way of thinking. I have a talk track in my head, which is be driven and be grateful. And it's kind of, it's a similar phenomenon, right? It's like you're chasing something, but don't lose sight of where you are, right? Exactly. And I think that's consistent with your quote. Well, Maria,

this has been, I've been a blast having you on the podcast. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being. on WOOP for so long. No, I'm a true fan. Well, thank you for coming on. It's been awesome to be with you. Thanks for having me. Big thank you to Maria for coming on the show and big congrats on her amazing career. We're rooting for her at the upcoming Australian Open, which starts next week. If you enjoyed this episode of the WOOP podcast, please leave a rating or review. Please subscribe to the WOOP podcast. You can check us out on social at Woop at Will Ahmed. If you have a question, what's the answered on the podcast? Email us, podcast at Woop.com. Call us 508-443-4-9-5-2.

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And that's a wrap, folks. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next week on the WOOP podcast. As always, stay healthy and stay in the green.