WHOOP Podcast - Coach Lori Locust: The Future of Coaching is Female

Episode Date: April 10, 2024

On this week’s episode WHOOP Global Head of Human Performance, Principal Scientist Kristen Holmes is joined by Lori Locust. Lori is entering her sixth season coaching in the NFL and her second season with the Titans. Prior to arriving in Tennessee, she spent four seasons as an assistant defensive line coach at the Tampa Bay Buccaneers where she won a Super Bowl in 2021. Kristen and Lori discuss preparing for the NFL season (3:01), learning a playbook (6:20), getting her first shot at coaching (9:27), Coach Lo’s perspective on the game (13:20), starting in the NFL (16:08), integrating with the Tampa Bay staff (28:10), Tom Brady joining the Buccaneers (28:10), preparation and mindset before the Super Bowl (32:07), Lo’s coaching style (34:32), defining success (36:42), shedding the stigma of “just ticking a box” (38:32), barriers for women in sport (41:04), the future of women in the NFL (46:57), meditation and self-reflection (50:04). Resources:Coach Lo’s Instagram Support the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

Hello folks, welcome back to the WOOP podcast. We sit down with top athletes, researchers, sciences, and more. Learn what the best in the world are doing to perform at their peak. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of Woop. Spring is the perfect time to get your health and fitness back on track. A reminder, our spring sale starts Monday, April 15th, and you can join Woop and save 10% on membership for a limited time only. On this week's episode, Whoop, Global Head of Human Performance,

principal scientist Kristen Holmes, is joined by coach Lori Locust. Coach Lowe is entering her sixth season coaching in the NFL and her second season with the Titans. Prior to arriving in Tennessee, she spent four seasons as assistant defensive line coach at the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. With the Buccaneers victory in Super Bowl LV, Coach Lowe became one of the first two women on an NFL coaching staff to win a Super Bowl. Coach Lowe has been working in football since 2008. Kristen and Coach Lowe discuss how Coach Lowe prepares for the season and adapts throughout the year, how she got her shot coaching in football, getting her first full-time job in the NFL, winning a Super Bowl with Tom Brady and the Bucks, her coaching style and her definition of success,

shedding the stigma of ticking a box, and barriers for women in sport. If you're thinking about joining Woop, you can sign up for free for 30 days. That's at Woop.com, free trial. If you have a question, what's he answered on the podcast? Email us, podcast at whoop.com. Call us 508-443-49-5-2. Here is Kristen Holmes with Tennessee Titans defensive coach Lori Locust. Coach Lori Locust has spent over 16 years in the game of American football

and has risen from the high school level to Super Bowl champion. Coach Lowe is entering her six-season in the NFL, her second as a defensive assistant and quality control coach for the Tennessee. Titans. Prior to her time in the NFL with the Titans and Bucks, Coach Lowe spent time working as an assistant defensive line coach for the Birmingham Iron of the Alliance of American Football during the league's inaugural season. In 2018, she served as a defensive line coaching intern for the Baltimore Ravens during the team's training camp and from 2016 to 18 worked as a defensive line linebackers coach and co-special teams coordinator of the Lehigh Valley Steelhawks of the National

Arena League. She also spent some time as an assistant coach at her prep alma mater, a semi-pro team from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and even had a four-year career in women's semi-professional football. Lowe, Coach Lowe, welcome to the Woot Podcast. Thanks, Kristen. Very, very honored to be here. Thanks for the invite. Yeah, I'm so happy you could join us. Of course, there's a lot happening in the world of football right now. Tell us some of the things that you're preparing in the moment. Yeah. So, I mean, obviously the cycle, you know, when people talk about the off season, there really is no off season, right? Because we don't just show up on Sundays and work,

which is also another misconception. But, no, so, you know, the draft is coming up. So we've been, you know, reviewing college draft eligible players for the last month. month or so. Free agency just got done. Obviously, there's been a lot of trades that have happened. And because there's a new staff now in Tennessee, we're rewriting the playbook. We're, you know, getting all the prep work together. We're, you know, meeting as coaching staff to make sure everybody's on the same page. So this is sort of the ramp up period every year that you take a look at the season ahead. Take a look at the players that you know that you have and the potential for the pieces that are going to be coming in. And now you have to try and make everything as

fluid as possible because once spring ball hits, you roll until the summer break. And then once that's over, you know, we're back for training camp. And, you know, then you're in the thick of it until hopefully late February the following year. When you're coming up with your defensive scheme for the new season, like how much innovation is happening there? Like how, you know, or how much, or is it really pretty standard? Everyone, you're just kind of picking from just this bucket of scheme. And we always talk about football is a language and everybody speaks a different dialect, right? So when you do have new coaches come in and we have a new defensive coordinator that has come in and he's bringing in a whole new system. So everything's called things slightly differently.

Things are viewed slightly differently. But what's interesting about the NFL is that coaches normally have come from another program. Maybe they've come from two or three or four or five. And so when they put their schemes together, they're trying to take the best pieces out of each that might make sense, again, knowing our players, knowing the coaches that they have on staff, can they, you know, teach it in the same voice? Can we be cohesive and everybody buy into this new defense? I'll just use defense as an example. But, you know, the NFL, as I've been told, and I've seen it, we always say it's a copycat league. if somebody starts off the year, if somebody starts off the year, blazing with this like great new or updated thing, you can best believe by like three or four, you're going to see two or three other teams doing it. So I was always told that you have to look at changing the way you do things usually every three years. Like if you have a, God willing, you know,

you're on a staff and you're in a organization for four years, year three, if you're not looking to like really overhaul or really update people are on to you people know how to scheme for you people know what you're going to do when you're in this alignment or put these players in certain positions so you kind of have to look for ways to make it fresh uh to be effective because you know NFL is uh production based and winning yeah winning keeps you there hopefully and you got to do what you can within the system to win and make it new as much as possible i love that i i feel that you know just to learn the playbook seems like not a trivial task you know i mean these things are i mean i've seen they're utterly enormous right

so to how does that play in you know you're you're at the combine you know you're you're going to be bringing in a new class how do you how do you know whether or not someone's going to be capable of learning and executing your playbook? Sure. I don't know that anybody's really 100% sure of that up front. I mean, those kids have so much on their shoulders when they're there. They have to perform physically. They have to always be on. They have to have this meeting.

They have to do this interview. And I think what gets missed sometimes, and I've been very appreciative of being around staffs that do take the extra step. But when those kids come in the door, they not only have to, learn the playbook, like you said, but they have to navigate now being a professional football player and, you know, living on their own or, you know, being responsible sometimes for things that they had a lot of other people around them in college that just took care of everything for them or family and, you know, and rightly so. So their transition has to be really quickly

figuring out how do you learn? Are you a visual learner? Do we need to sit and spend like an extra half an hour with you like in classroom do you need to come in and like go through stuff like you know walkthroughs you know pre-practice so that you get like the the repetitions with it like how is it going to be best for you and then we also depend on a lot of the veteran players to kind of help us bridge that from you know what the coaches are saying and then as a player this is how i do it you know you're in my position you know there's you know going to be some competition, obviously, but we all know that the more that that room or that unit operates together, the better off will be down the line. So, you know, it's just a combination effort of

getting player engagement involved. So they get that stuff knocked out, getting, you know, the classroom done with the coaches, getting the reps done with the coaches, you know, memory tricks, like whatever it is, whatever they need. But we have to bring them up to speed, because you just never know, you just never know when they may have to rise to that occasion and you got to put them in. So you have to be as confident as possible in their ability to not only learn it, but retain it when the, we say when the bullets are flying. But yeah, yeah, it's a lot.

It's a lot for them when they first walk in the door. Who gave you the shot? Hmm. You know, like it's, you know, to be one of the very first women in the NFL, you know, not a lot of women know football, understand football, let alone have played football, you know, it's just, it's just so uncommon, you know? So just how did you, how did you make it to the NFL? It's just wild. When I look back on it, it was pretty wild. I've always loved football from the time I was like a little kid and, you know, played it in the backyard when I was growing up

with the neighborhood kids and whatever. We all had, we were all different players from our favorite teams. The Harrisburg area in Pennsylvania is where I grew up. But when I was about 40, they had a women's team for the first time come to the area. So I don't know what I was thinking that day, but went over. And that ended in a good four-year career playing semi-pro. And you know, my kids were little. So I was working full-time. I was a part-time personal trainer. and my younger son was playing youth ball at the time. And there was a husband and wife that I would always sit close to in the bleachers because all the parents would stay.

And I had known the guy since he was a little kid because he was a cousin of one of my friends, but he was the head football coach at Susquehanna, which is my alma mater and where I ended up there for so many years. But I would just sit and talk to them. And we would talk a little bit, and every once in a while, there would be something come up about football, and I would make a comment. And he was like, how do you know that? I'm like, well, because this, that, and the other. So he invited me to work the team out for their summer workouts.

It was 5.30 in the morning. I used to go over before I would go to work, absolutely killed them. They hated me. They hated seeing me coming. I went to one of the practices one night, and he's like, hey, you know, why don't you go shadow the defunds? defensive line coach. It was like, really? Like on the field? And he's like, yeah, come on down. So that's how it started. It was very organic. And I talk a lot to like with women or anybody coming into anything, I try and tell them like the relationships that you build have to be

authentic and organic. It can't be transactional. Like I never sat next to Joe because I wanted a job. I sat next to him and his wife, Susie, because they were good people and I enjoyed their company. and it just kind of all fell in line just based on conversation. But I would have never like gone to him and said, hey, you know, this is what I can do and this is what I want to do and, you know, help me. But he was the one and he set a tone immediately that I was like any other coach on the field, not only to the other coaches, but to the kids. And I never had a problem. I never didn't feel as though I couldn't ask a question. I did everything that I could to work harder than any of the other volunteers that were there

because I appreciated the opportunity to be there so much and to learn. And that then was like a nine-year proposition. And then they finally got rid of me. They've all stayed in touch. They've all been great supporters the whole time. But it was an amazing sort of think tank that I got to be a part of. with minimal investment of me other than my time and effort. So, yeah, Joe, Joe would have been the one that started the ball rolling for me.

That's amazing. And would you say, you know, do you have kind of an unusual football IQ? I would have to think that just being a woman, you know, potentially, like you're, you know, you're looking at the game potentially a little bit different. Like you, how you interact with the players maybe is different. Like, I imagine all of those things are. positive on a team. You know, we know that diversity on teams is the way to improve performance of a team. So it's not surprising that you've been able to integrate so well. And it's,

it's been so beneficial for the teams that you've been a part of. But maybe just explain kind of that dynamic a little bit and what your perception has been of your role in these kind of all male environments. Yeah. I mean, I think that obviously every coach has their own style, right? And I think that, again, that speaks back to authenticity. I never tried to emulate the guys, although I'm doing a much better job of not swearing as much as I used to. I could hang in there with the best of them. Trust me. I've always been an assistant coach, and I'm more than okay with that. But it was great was when I was in positions with other coaches where I was their second set of eyes. So if they were looking at one thing, maybe I was more geared towards the fundamental piece, because like you said,

There's so much to learn in a game that we don't get to play as women, usually since the time we've been six years old, right? Like, guys have this incredible path that's so organic and laid out. Like, they don't even think about it. We have to put the work in for it because it's not the norm. It's not something that we sit around on Sunday afternoons, you know, at brunch and discuss. It's just, it's different. But I think it's like anything that you really have a passion for. or like you put the time and effort in to get to know it or get to know like just like a new job.

You know, like there have been times when I worked in corporate where I felt like so over acronymed that it took me, you know, forever to understand when people talk in acronyms. So it was basically that same type of approach that I took with football. You know, I always tell my kids, my sons that, you know, you can only eat the elephant one bite at a time. So I kind of stayed within the realm of what I understood, what my position group was supposed to be doing, what my position coach was covering with them. And those are the things I focused on as opposed to trying to learn everything. I've been very fortunate now over the last couple of years to have been exposed more to coverage and secondary, which I had stayed away from for the longest time. but that's just making me better as a coach and making me understand the game on another level and I'm finding myself in a position again so I really need to put the time and effort in

because now that's that new aspect that I need to be able to master to keep employed or to keep working or to be advanced or wherever this path takes me next. But I think it's just all about effort and commitment to something if you want it. You know, you want to be successful. You have to put the time in. Yeah. When did you get, so you're with the Ravens prior to the Bucks, right? How did the opportunity of the Ravens like transpire and kind of what were some of the learnings there?

And then if you can talk a little about your transition to the Bucks and how that, what that phone call was like, like, how did that happen? Yeah. Every year since 2017, there's been a women's career forum that the NFL has put on. I've been fortunate to be invited. every year now more so obviously as a speaker because of being in the league but in 18 I was there and Callie Brownson was there now with Cleveland Jennifer King was there obviously now with Chicago and there was only about 15 of us that were coaches within that

track and what it does is it allows you to be put in front of head coaches and front office personnel, GMs, owners, and have face time with them and ask them questions because, again, just like the players that are coming in for the draft, like, you don't know what you don't know. You don't know what the building's going to be like. You don't know what the demands of the job are. So I think that that type of experience helped to kind of wipe away some of the uncertainty. And then like every year we all applied for the Bill Walsh diversity fellowship and I was fortunate enough that Baltimore picked me up for that and that's how I was able to intern with them and that defensive line coach Joe Cullen has been again one of

my biggest mentors he's been with Kansas City the last couple of years so he's been very successful in what he does but Joe was the same he was inclusive and that room was insane talent-wise. It was Terrell Suggs, Future Hall of Famer. It was Zadarious Smith. It was Michael Pierce. I mean, Pat Ricard, like those guys in that room, the level of talent that they allowed me to be around as well as the coaching staff was insane. And I was very fortunate enough, too, to be able to develop relationships with those guys that still continue. And we still, you know, stay in touch. And it's just something where, again, I think that having the ability to have other people see, again, that your intention is to become better. Your intention's not there because of the media.

Your attention's not there to be, you know, look at me, look at me, look at me. Like, I couldn't care less if they did or, you know, they didn't. But Coach Harbaugh has been an amazing supporter too. And he really went out of his way to make sure that, you know, things were set up the correct way and very approachable. Again, he's one of the greatest guys, let alone coaches, let alone fathers that I've ever met. And he's always been such a nice, supportive piece of my journey. But yeah, I couldn't have asked for a better start to be there with them. My full-time job at that time before I went to Baltimore fired me

two weeks before I took the internship. And it was, yeah, it was really, it was difficult because my younger son was in college at Penn State. My older son had already moved to California. He had gone to grad school and stayed out there. So I'm looking at no benefits, no salary, you know, and I'm leaving, well, I was asked to leave.

my full-time job because they just, you know, they weren't going to hold it, obviously, for me to be gone six weeks. So I really struggled with that going into it, but I thought, if I don't try this now, I'm going to regret it. So let me go do this. And when I come back, if I can't find full-time work in football, I'll go back to doing what I know. I'll go back to find a corporate job. I'll work. I'll work two jobs. I'll make it up. And coming back from that internship was difficult because you get a taste of everything that you know that now you want and you get to see it behind the scenes and then it's like this high high high and that's like nothing like dropping off so I worked at a pet food factory and I walked dogs and I did whatever

I could to you know make the money to take care of my son and and pay my bills and it was right about then November. So I did that for about three months that I got a call for the AAF to go to Birmingham and pick that up. And then I had been at Temple forever ago. My ex-husband was a player there at the time that Bruce Ariens was coach. And I had met BA in passing. But I also knew Andrew's, my ex-husband, Andrews teammates, Todd Bowles, Kevin Ross, Keith Armstrong, Nick Rapone was his position coach. All of those guys were on the Buccaneer staff at that time under B.A. as a coach. And there was a coaching clinic and somebody had said, you know, listen, BAs in town, he's committed to hiring a woman. you know, full time for next year. And I was like, yeah, but I can't leave. I mean, I can't

like leave my job here and go trying to find BA. And Joe Pendry, who was our GM in Birmingham and has been in the league forever and ever. I didn't know it at the time, but Joe was speaking to BA on my behalf telling him he should talk to me about the position, which again, you talk about like a break I never asked Joe to do that, and it was just, it was huge. So I did. I got B.A.'s email, Katie Sowers at the time, who was in the league, actually got me his email. And I sent my resume to him and put in the subject line 36 years later. I'd love to work for you and send him my information.

And, you know, we talk about the value of relationships. You never think that 36 years later. you're going to have to roll back to something, you know, that you, in passing, you know, he knew who I was, he knew the guys, but that's how I got the call from BA, and we talked for about 10 minutes, and he invited me to come down and work, and I drove down from Birmingham, and, you know, timing's everything, too, because I think I left on a, I think I left on a Friday, and that following Tuesday, the league folded. So it was truly like the planets aligning to get me to Tampa at that time. And I had four great years there and Super Bowl win and, you know, have a house

here now. And it's been a blessing. It's incredible. I mean, Super Bowl. I mean, let alone, you know, getting to coach in a professional league, like that, that end of itself, you know, but then actually to win the whole thing is, you know, it's just. True. Yeah, very few people get to experience that. And it just sounds, you know, everyone I've talked to, Lori, just speaks so highly of you. And it's clear that these opportunities, it seems clear to me, that these opportunities have come about just because you're a really good human and you've treated people well along the way. And I think that you deserve everything that you've got, you know, because, you know, your skills and your knowledge and your expertise. And I think, too, like, you know, it strikes me just you're willing to take risk, willingness to take risk. you know, it's to just back yourself in that way and kind of go for that internship when you knew there's a lot at stake and you have a family to support. Like I just, you know, I always go back to this, this idea that, you know, when you're living your values and you're really clear about how you want to think, what you want to be thinking about and what you love to think about and

when you pursue those opportunities, like usually good things happen, you know, because you said it earlier, like there's an authenticity, you know, that comes with that, that people can feel. And I think people gravitate to that and appreciate that and want to honor that. And, you know, and I think you're a great example of people actually want to, want to, are more inclined to help, you know, when they feel that. So yeah, just kudos to you for making all that happen. So you go to the box, like, tell me about how do you integrate into the staff? You know, you've got all these. I mean, there's just, how many staff are there? So when we're talking about, you know, position coaches. Yeah. I mean, it's like a, and then you've got the performance coaches.

Strength, conditioning, medicine, athletic medicine, you know, director of performance, who's kind of keeping it all together. Like, maybe just give us a rundown of, like, just how many people are kind of plugged into this, like, system. Yeah, a lot. I think, I mean, it's in the hundreds, right? It's like a hundred and something, right? It would have to be, to be honest with you. Because, you know, BA, there was the, I think we were the largest coaching staff when I got there. And I will say, obviously, you know, it was probably a little bit easier for me going there because I knew those guys from college, you know.

I mean, we've, we had been friends or, you know, really close at that time. And they made it easy. You know, they walked me around the building. They would introduce me to people. And, you know, again, it's just like any new job. Like, I tried to get to know people's names. I tried to, you know, always, you know, understand, like, what each and every person did because, like you said, it takes. And again, I don't think people understand how many people it takes to get that team on the field and in great shape and in the right equipment and healthy and everything, like, on a weekly basis or to even transport them there.

But, yeah, you know, it takes time. And everybody's, like, very, like, you know, willing to, like, talk to you and explain, you know, what they do. and you get a chance then because football and I'm sure field hockey is probably like this too, but every day is like the same. Like a football Monday in 17 weeks will still be a football Monday and then a football Tuesday. And, you know, there are just certain things that you do on every like specified day of the week. So then we knew that there would be times when we would encounter or we would overlap other sort of departments. based on what football day it was.

So that gave you an opportunity to develop those relationships within the building as well because you had those brief bits of overlap or pre-practice or if somebody was injured or you needed additional information, it just became like this routine meshing. So that helped. But yeah, I mean, I did my best to get to know, you know, everybody that was there. And I think that that was a big eye-opener in Baltimore, too, was just how many people are behind the scenes. Yeah.

You don't ever see. You'll probably never see, but they're so important to the team and getting them out there for the best product that that team can put it, you know, on the field. Yeah. I think people probably don't realize, like, how much complexity there really is, you know,

and just from an organizational standpoint and, like, it's just... help process it like there's so much procedure and yeah it's like really quite impressive so you were there two years prior to when brady arrived right well i was there in 19 so we had 19 okay so 19 and then tv came in 20 yep in 20 okay so what was that moment you know as a new eng girl i got to ask what was that like for tom brady coming in it was everything that you would have expected to be okay It was The dialed and tense Like the whole nine yards

Yes and no So it was I think it was And I'll say that this is my opinion Because I don't want to Of course Obviously Yeah

But in 19 I thought that we had a lot of talent In the building But we just couldn't We just didn't Put it together Consistently enough To have the season

that we all wanted and you just you know you look back and you know obviously there was different leadership you know in the field at that point in time so then when tom came in obviously we were like this this you know you hear the news and we're like that's a rumor that's not yeah it's not gonna happen come on man like that's the most far-fetched thing however he could not have been nicer. He couldn't have been more professional. He couldn't have been more approachable. He was the consummate, like just professional. But again, my opinion only, it felt like that entire building just took a deep breath and lifted the moment he walked in. And it wasn't even that he did anything huge. He wasn't demonstrative. You know what I mean? Like he wasn't, you know,

all rah-rah or whatever. His presence alone and the example that he set because of the way he approached the game, the way he prepared, the way he held himself to such a high standard, the way that he, you know, talked to the other guys. Like, it was a leadership that is unparalleled and they rose to it on both sides of the ball. Because now it's kind of like, you know, we didn't, in 19, we didn't really have a point of reference what it was like to win consistently. Now you have somebody who's not used to losing his attitude, his mindset, like it was just like totally opposite. And the guys just rose to it. and they started to collectively play to the potential that we always knew was there.

But he, Tom was a catalyst, in my opinion. Tom was a catalyst for it. And it just hit, everything just hit all at the right time when he was there to have all of our right pieces in place. Like the defensive side of the ball was incredible at that point. Like the front seven was just a nightmare for any team to have. have to scheme for it, and now we had an offense that matched and or surpassed what the defense can do. That's a tough nomination to beat. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. What's up, folks, if you are enjoying this podcast, or if you care about health, performance, fitness, you may really enjoy

getting a whoop. That's right. You can check out whoop at whoop.com. It measures everything around sleep, recovery, strain. And you can now sign up. for free for 30 days. So you'll literally get the high performance wearable in the mail for free. You get to try it for 30 days, see whether you want to be a member. And that is just at whoop.com. Back to the guests. So you're at the Super Bowl and you've got Andy Reid, who's just like an absolute mind or a mastermind, right? Especially from the offensive side. But what was it like just preparing for that game? And then during the game, it was such a dominant effort. Like what was like? What was like going through your mind not a whole lot no it was different too because we were playing at

home and it was COVID and so like all of the all of the swirling you know distractions that would probably normally be in place for a Super Bowl really weren't there and it's odd to say I just talked about it with MJ we had a chance to have dinner with some friends at the combine and it was it was so calm in that building for those two weeks leading into it and i think the thing that sticks out to me the most is that anytime anybody would talk about the game it was never if we were going to win it was when we win and and it was a i don't know why we you know what i mean but we just had that confidence we have played kansas city earlier that season and they came out and like just were smoking us early i mean i think they had like 200 yards

passing in the first half. But then the adjustments that were made in the third quarter and the fourth quarter shut them down entirely. And so we kind of knew that we knew now how to play them. And like you said earlier, like we had a plan in place from a homes that I think nobody saw coming because it was different than what would have been anticipated for us to play him. And during my time in Tampa I was always up in the booth and you're so locked into you know the things that you have to do and I mean I I was writing down the calls as they would come in I was trying to track other things obviously some of the guys most of the guys had a lot of other stuff on their plates but it wasn't really until the third quarter was

just ending that we all kind of realized that they had not scored a touchdown yet but we're like we're going into the fourth quarter. This is Patrick Mahomes. Like, I mean, nobody can, you know, this isn't going to, this isn't going to happen. But it was insanity to see that final seconds, like click off, to see that score and to understand what we did at home. Yeah, there is nothing like it. It's incredible. What is it about your, would you say about your coaching style or if somewhere to to describe your coaching style. How would they describe you with your players? Yeah, I mean, they know that I care a lot.

They know that I'm very fundamentally based. I don't have a lot of patience if they're not fundamentally sound or if we're correcting the same fundamental things over and over. If we're going to coach, if I'm going to coach, let me coach you on something new as opposed to the stuff that you already should know and already have down pat, we shouldn't have to have, you know, the same error repeating. I think that that was a really good step in for me in Tennessee because Coach Braywell had that mentality. Like, it's okay to make a mistake. And I've coached with other coaches where it's

not okay to make a mistake, but he wanted them to continually try to do things that we were asking. And I felt like that created an environment that the guys were willing to play and willing to like play a little bit harder because they weren't as afraid of making a mistake as they would be to not execute a play. So again, I mean, I've kind of softened on the language a little bit, but you know, I'm tough when I need to be. I'm loud when I need to be. But I really want to form a connection with each player so that they understand that if I'm asking them to do something that we need to do it. And if I'm asking them to go, you know, a little bit beyond it's because we need them and i believe that they're able to do it so that's why

i'm asking you i always tell them like it's the biggest compliment when a coach is coaching you it's when they leave you alone that you need to worry um so make sure that you know we always have that understanding like if i'm coaching you it's because i know you can do it and i know that you know you have the capacity to do it if i'm letting you go you know um you might not be where you think you you are and we need to have a separate conversation. But, you know, I try and be as straightforward as I can. I don't sugarcoat much. And, you know, to hear me talk, I think sometimes it's going to sound like everybody else.

I just come at it maybe from a different perspective and get the job done that way. I love that. When you look back on seasons and you kind of like, all right, yeah, that was successful. Like, you know, how do you define success for you? for me personally is if the players do well you know there's certain accolades there's certain levels of recognition that you definitely want your players to achieve and if they've been successful and i mean again it's the league right if they have yeah incentives um that you know we've done everything that we can to have them hit those incentives and hit their personal goals um maybe it's

a rookie who now understands everything within the system or got playing time at the end of the year because they were able to have that extra time and now they're on to a new phase or sometimes a new team, but they're better prepared to be successful in their careers. And I think anything that I would view as a success would have to be, you know, where are the players that I've had a touch with? Where are they now? And if they're further down the line in their career. They've been successful or I feel as though that I was able to make some type of impact to help get them there. I mean, that's, that's all I can really ask for. I think that's success as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, it's amazing. You are, you know, clearly a part of a very elite group

of women, you know, who are coaching in the NFL right now. What do you say to people, you know, I read the comments and, you know, people say like, oh, they're just taking a box, you know, hiring a woman, you know, how do you respond to that? You know, how do the people in your organization respond to that? I just think people need to hear, develop some language around, you know, how people are actually thinking about it. Yeah. I try not to read the comments anymore because I feel like everybody has an opinion that, you know, is based on their own point of reference. And it's not my experience and hopefully it's not the experience of the people that are investing time and effort in, you know, putting me on a staff somewhere. And, you know, I think that, you know, it's difficult because, like you said, there are so few of us, so we're easy targets when it comes to, you know, some small-mindedness in regards to, you know, how coaches should look or coaches should be or the packaging that goes around being a coach.

But, you know, I feel like I've tried to make more of an effort to just leave the noise behind me because at the end of the day, it's kind of all it is. Like, I've got a job to do. And while I'm here, I'm going to do it. If I'm not here, somebody else will do it. I mean, that's just the league. When I was in the group that got fired, you know, I had so many guys call me and tell me, well, you know, now you're a real coach because you're not a real coach until you get fired because, you know, they always say, you know, there's two kinds of coaches. there's, you know, the coaches that are waiting to get hired and the ones that are about to be fired. So it's just how this profession is. Like, I've got so many other things to kind of worry

about and focus on that, you know, having, you know, the discussion with anybody who feels like, you know, a checkmark in a box is probably the lowest priority that I could place on any of it. And if that's how they choose to be fine, so be it, buy a ticket, I'll see you on Sunday. I don't. have any time for it. Yeah, perfect. We met through the female coaches network, you know, which I've become, yeah, a really passionate supporter of doing great work, trying to understand, you know, why is it that, you know, women leave professional sports at greater rates than men do, right? There's higher levels of burnout for women than there are for men. And, you know, this is a group, you know, a network that's trying to actively support women who are coaching

at professional and international levels. And so I love that mission. You know, what are some of the barriers that you see with women? You know, of course, you're, you know, professional and then also in a male-dominated sport, you know, so you've got kind of coming at you from all sides. But, yeah, what would be your perspective on, you know, how do we keep women in high-level coaching positions? Yeah.

So a couple of things. I always say male prevalent. because I don't like to give power to the to the dominant uh yeah words that's yeah perfect male prevalent teachers profession yeah I love that I think one of the things that the forum did and even one of the things you know the Vicky tries to do through the female coaches network is you take away the feeling of isolation in a profession where you don't see yourself often and And until the forum, you know, being in Pennsylvania, I mean, in high school, doing the semi-pro games, you know, doing the arena games.

Like, I didn't see myself ever. There was, you know, clinics, you know, that all the football coaches go to for the high school thing. I went to one in Baltimore. And they had all of the conference sessions were on the second floor. Well, because it's mostly men, they took over. the women's bathroom and made it a men's bathroom also. So, you know, I had to run to the first floor to go pee, like, during sessions. And it was like they don't do that anymore.

But it's not because there's throngs of women coming in, but there's enough now that, you know, they're making the concession like, oh, you know, we're, now we have to recognize the fact that there are other people that are starting to coach this sport or have a passion for this sport. And I think that internationally, I think that I've seen some of Vicki's articles, and I think that there's more of a challenge maybe and in different sports, too, that are slower to respond to the availability of having women come in and have the opportunities to do it. but I've always said that, you know, I don't want to be a role model because to me, role model always insinuated that you're going to emulate everything I've done.

You're going to do everything that I did. You're going to follow, you know, the path I did. You're going to go the same places I went. You're going to handle things the same way. I don't want that for anybody. I want to be able to be a possibility model for young women or women. I mean, I pivoted to this late. in my career. And, you know, shout out to Laverne Cox on the term possibility model. But, I mean,

I want to make it known that it's possible. It's not easy. It's not for everybody. And I think that, you know, I was at a place in my life where my kids were older, where, you know, again, I had no job. So it was either two toes off the cliff or, you know, step back away from it. But I feel like that there's a lot of societal things sometimes that hold women back from being able to commit to it the same way our male colleagues are able to commit to a sport with like no strings attached because most of the guys that I coach with have been married for forever, have wonderful women, you know, that are the mothers of their children and their wives that take care of their home, they take care of the kids, they take care of the moving, they take care of everything.

Well, guess what? I do both. You know, and that's not, yeah, it's just not easy and it's not for everybody and you really have to understand personally what you're willing to accept and what your tolerance level is. Is it lack of sleep? Is it really a lack of, you know, money? Is it a lack of quality family time? Like, what are you willing to do? And I think that right now with women's sports, you know, rising so, you know, quickly and the viewership. is up. I think that, you know, maybe there'll be a little less pressure in the next couple of years for us to have to take on everything. But I think that until there are opportunities in that woman's life to be able to say, I don't feel bad about trying to follow something that I know will make me happy or follow a passion that I've always had until we can carve that back away

out of like a woman's psyche, we just don't have the numbers to kind of build that candidate pool. Like I said earlier, like guys have been playing football since they've been six. They go through high school, they go through college. You know, they can say, oh, you know, your dad

coached me at junior college. Or, you know, Kristen, you and I, you know, we were teammates, you know, back in high school and, you know, IGA'd on your dad's team. Like, we don't have that. So with the very small, number now of us that are in the league. It's almost like we're trying to build a framework or a career path backwards. And you know, you can talk about sending the elevator back down, but I don't

feel it's even that because there's this like disconnect of development where women that are out there now have done it on their own. And it's like now how do we grab them continue their development, continue their career pathing so that they're at least on the same level as their male counterparts as they come forward. And then that's what the forum's been able to do is really identify women that are already now working at the college level and trying to put them a little bit closer each year to the people that make the decisions to at least bring them in and give them a shot, just like I had, just like Jen and Callie and Katie and Angela Baker in New York that we've all had. And, you know, if it's a fit, it's a fit. If it's not, you know, we just kind of

keep trying. I love possibility model. That's awesome. I've never heard that before. Yeah. That's that's a great way of framing it. Do you feel optimistic about the future of women and the National Football League? It's hard to say because of not really seeing numbers in the coaching ranks that I'd like to see. I mean, we have a ton of young women that want to do scouting. A ton of young women that want to do the operations part, your, you know, personnel, engagement, all that. Yeah. Coaching, it's still really thin. And if we're going to make an impact, you have to have the experience.

You have to be able to work your way up. You have to be able to put the time and the sweat equity into it. Yeah. And until we get, again, like a good, solid, numerous. candidate pool it's going to be tricky i think it'll be slow going but i think it's you know the doors cracked open we just have to have the women who are really committed to that process be able to kind of push themselves to the top yeah one thing i hope our our listeners take away from this conversation is that you know you didn't you didn't get on this track until you were 40

like that is like insane to me and and amazing you know and so for you inspiring and I hope people just recognize that it's like the dream is never dead you know and and I just I just love how it all evolve for you it's it's just really super inspiring and a possibility model is yeah it's it's right there in front of us you know and and I hope um yeah I hope moms and you listen to this share this with their kids and and think about the opportunities that they have for themselves you know and and whether or not they're kind of living live in living their purpose and and their mission and whether or not the things that they're doing from a day-to-day basis are an outlet is an outlet, you know, for the things that they say they care about

and want to think about. And, you know, so when you think about like, you know, five years from now, you know, where do you see yourselves? I'd like to say still employed with the NFL. Okay, good. Yeah. Still working. That would be good. You know, I think, you know, obviously it would be nice to have the ability to have my own room within a team. And, you know, we'll see how that all plays out. But, you know, I just, I love being around the game. I love being part of the organization right now. And, you know, just want to continue to contribute.

I'd love to have another Super Bowl ring to add to the collection. But, yeah, I mean, who knows? I try and, you know, Jen King always says, you know, you'd be where your feet are. I'm trying to be the best defensive assistant slash quality control coach that I can be right now in Tennessee and, you know, be a contributing member of staff here and, you know, we'll take it from there. But, yeah, always always employed is definitely a goal. Amazing. Is there anything specific that you're just obsessing over at the moment? It can be anything. I know you're trying to recover from surgery. That's a big one. That's pretty much it. Right now.

just getting that mobility back. I was asked the other day about, like, work, work-life balance. And, you know, because my son, my younger son's still in Tampa, I'm like, and the dog, and my older son is out in California, you know, when I'm in Tennessee, you know, just trying to stay connected to them because they're my grounding source. And I've been really trying to put a lot of time and effort. I kind of got away from it during season. But I always like to spend like the first 20 minutes of the morning in the last 20 minutes of every night, sort of like in meditation and self-reflection.

Just to sort of like get that calm voice and sort of, you know, just kind of bolster, you know, where my faith is at and, you know, kind of like settle me down and are like, you know, just get me ready for the day. So just being a little bit more consistent with that, I'd say just, you know, other than trying to learn the new playbook is probably. like the biggest obsession that I have right now. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, those are beautiful bookends, you know, to the day. And that's, yeah, I think probably really good advice for, for anyone who's trying to feel a bit more centered, a bit more grounded in the things that matter, you know, is carving out that time to reflect, I think is really important for human thriving, for sure. Well, this has been a fascinating conversation, Lori. I know you're in the thick of things, so I'll let you go here, but you are truly inspirational and just appreciate everything that you've done to kind of push

us into new territory. And yeah, just as a mom of a daughter, a daughter who is excited to do really hard things in her life, you know, I appreciate what you've done, you know, for all of us. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you so much. Just so you know, because we didn't really talk about it. But I want to thank you for whoop because when my younger son was having some undiagnosed health issues, it was extremely valuable to track his heart rate and give data back to his doctors regarding, you know, his heart rate is pulse. Like it's just he's had one for three years, is. terrible like kids like have to wake up in the morning solely depends on you know that risk

vibration like it's just all the things that made sense to him but then also became a health benefit and a tracking device especially when I wasn't here so I want to thank you and and have you understand that sometimes even you know it may not obviously be like the direct purpose of it But from a family standpoint for us, it was invaluable to be able to track that and get to his doctor when things started to get out of kilter. So I want to make sure that you understand how much we value what you do and the technology behind it because it really, it probably saved him a couple of times. And again, when I wasn't here.

So thank you for that. All right. I hope he's on a better path. I'm so sorry that your family. had to go through whatever you know whatever it was but um glad that was a was helpful and that's amazing to hear thank you i really enjoyed speaking with you and meeting you and everybody's been great yeah so just thank you for the invitation i really appreciate yeah yeah i'll be thinking about you and and can't wait if i'm if i'm down in tennessee which i'm sure i will be yeah this

fall for sure um i will uh yeah i'll definitely i'll definitely hit you up even though i know you'll be really busy, but I'll just say hi. That's okay. Listen, always time for you. I really appreciate it. All right, Lori. We reach out if you ever need anything. Thanks to your time today.

Thanks to Coach Lowe for sharing her story and her path to becoming the first woman on an NFL coaching staff to win a Super Bowl. Once again, be on the lookout for our spring sales starting Monday, April 15th, for 10% off WOOP memberships. If you enjoyed this episode of WOOP podcast, please leave a rating or review. Please subscribe to the WOOP podcast. You can check us. out on social at WOOP at Will Ahmed.

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