WHOOP Podcast - Dr. Bob Arnot, author, award-winning TV journalist & champion stand-up paddleboarder shares his secrets for competing with world-class athletes one-third his age.

Episode Date: June 12, 2019

Author, TV journalist, and world-class paddleboarder at 71 years old, Dr. Bob Arnot discusses his incredible career (3:43), how he discovered WHOOP (9:01) and his tips improving recovery (13:49), being a "Type T" personality (21:50), 3 things that help him sleep anywhere (26:15), the "feed-forward" loop (33:23), preventing your muscles from aging (38:47), which athletes live the longest (43:15), taking up paddleboarding (44:21) and competing in the world championships (47:02), the benefits of coffee and polyphenols (50:56), "cardiodiabesity" (1:00:32), The Aztec Diet (1:03:20), online learning vs traditional education (1:11:56), breathing to reduce stress (1:22:58), and "the ultimate health barometer" (1:26:05).Support the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

We discovered that there were secrets that your body was trying to tell you that could really help you optimize performance. But no one could monitor those things. And that's when we set out to build the technology that we thought could really change the world. Welcome to the Whoop podcast. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of Whoop, where we are on a mission to unlock human performance. Having recorded about 25 episodes on the WOOP podcast, I can truly say it's a great lens into understanding how high performers, top performers, do what they do. At WOOP, our clients range from the best professional athletes in the world to Navy SEALs,

to fitness enthusiasts, to Fortune 500 CEOs and executives. The common thread among WOOP members is a passion to improve. What does it take to optimize performance for athletes, for humans, really anyone? And now that we've just launched all-new whoop strap 3.0 featuring Woop Live, which takes real-time training and recovery analysis to the next level, you're going to hear how many of these users are optimizing their body with WOOP and with other things in their life. On this podcast, we dig deeper, we interview experts, we interview industry leaders across sports, data, technology, physiology, athletic achievement, you name it. How can you use data to improve? your body? What should you change about your life? My hope is that you'll leave these conversations with some new ideas and a greater passion for performance. With that in mind, I welcome you to the

Whoop podcast. I wrote a book called Turning Back the Clock. I said, you have what are the twin engines of aging. So think of a twin engine airplane with these two engines turning. If you lose an engine, you can fly, but you've now gone from 300 miles, now, 120 miles, and you've barely in the air. That would be if you're either doing just aerobic or you're doing just wait training. If you do the two of them together, then you're maintaining your muscle mass. Hello everyone. My guest today is Dr. Bob Arnott. It's hard to even know where to start when describing Bob. He's a medical doctor who's traveled on missions to third world countries across the globe. He's the author of 15 books ranging from health and performance to coffee.

He's an award-winning television journalist on CBS, NBC, MSNBC, and more. And at 71 years old, he's a world champion stand-up paddleboarder. So real, real athlete, he's been competing his entire life. And by the way, on Woop, his heart rate variability is in the hundreds, which for those of you on Woop know is pretty incredible for a 71-year-old. Bob and I discuss why he got on Woop and how it's helped him get the HRV of a 25-year-old. all the things he does to be able to compete with athletes one-third his age, his ideas on nutrition,

and the benefits of coffee that many of us don't know about. I found that really fascinating. This is a really incredible conversation, and I can't wait to share it with all of our WOOP podcast listeners. Without further ado, here's Bob. Bob, Dr. Bob, thanks for coming on the WOOP podcast. Hey, Will, I am so pumped. I'm addicted to WOOP.

I can't stop looking at my podcast. iPad, my phone, and my computer. It's like completely disrupted my workday. Well, we've had a lot of fun emails together, and I'm so glad to do this in person. And for our audience that, I mean, most of our audience is going to know you, but for the person who doesn't, like, you know, say you're at a dinner party and you're sitting next to someone who you are,

and they're like, hey, Bob, what do you do? How do you even respond to that? So I've had a television journalist forever, Today Show, Dateline, all those big shows, have a TV show called Dr. Danger. physician. I still work in Congo, Kenya, some of the roughest places in the world, Iraq. And I am a data fanatic. I actually started out as an athlete in helping other athletes on our Olympic teams founded the first ever winter sports medicine laboratory in the U.S. U.S. ski team sports medicine laboratory did cool stuff like three-dimensional computerized motion analysis, computerized

gas exchange analysis for anaerobic threshold. And of course, all of the the Olympic athletes were very appreciative that I was providing this information to enhance their performance. Of course, they secretly believed I was actually doing it from my own performance benefit. Well, it's amazing the career that you've had. And I want to go back for a second. I mean, you've now written half a dozen books, many of which have been bestsellers. For our audience, like, what got you so interested into understanding the body? You know, you talk about the Aztec diet, coffee lovers diet. You go into even breast cancer prevention, turning back the clock.

For you, what got you so fascinated in health? Well, so in medical school, I was in these desperate places in Africa. You know, we were losing these kids. It was so painful, you know, these war zones. They come in and there's just not much you can do for him. There's this 175-year-old guy who'd get up every one with a big smile on his face. He would go out and dig a well. Well, that clean water, he'd save 200 lives while we would lose four or five.

And I said to myself, prevention is the key. Yeah, that's true. Now, at that time, there's a very famous guy named John Knowles, who was Chief of Massachusetts General Hospital, which is Harvard's the chief hospital. And he had a great quote, which was, the next big step in American medicine is what the patient does for himself or herself. And so I've been the world's biggest advocate of that. You know, I could go out and work in an emergency room or have a practice and do a lot.

But I think you can do an awful lot more through prevention. And in doing prevention, I actually was talking to a guy over in Cambridge who was working with Afghanistan. I said, you know, what are I doing? How do I basically, you know, empower people? He said, well, public health isn't doing it. People don't pay any attention. They know they're not supposed to smoke. They know they're supposed to eat vegetables, but they don't.

I said, well, what's the answer? He goes, Bob, it's commercial television. So I started that actually on ABC's Wild World of Sports. We had a great time there. at CBS this morning with Diane Sawyer, Dan Rather, with the CBS Evening News, and then over to the Today Show with Katie Couric, Nightly News there with Brian Williams and with Don Brokaw. So I had a great run there.

It's been a crazy run. But doing a wonderful mix between, you know, my two great passions. One is how to help people get better. And the letters you get from people saying, you know, I was overweight and chest pain. Yeah, that's amazing, right? They're better. And the other is the international humanitarian community. It would really be a big, big part.

trips this year to Congo, Uganda, Iraq, you know, trying to save people who are trying the most desperate way to save themselves, but can't because of, you know, the terrible forces of war and famine and civil unrest. So what's an example of something that you would do in the Congo? So right now we have a mission in July. And Congo is our greatest tragedy. There's six million dead since the Rwandan genocide. As you know, the genocide, roughly 800,000 Tutsi were slaughtered.

But as those who committed this crime pulsed out into the Congo, they turned that into the most terrible bloodbath. What happens in these African wars is that it's not so much fighting soldier against soldiers, maybe 25 soldiers that died. But in raping and pillaging and roaming through these towns, terrible things happen. So it's unfortunately the sort of capital of gender-based violence. And so we have a survey trip this July looking a whole variety of hospitals with this wonderful organization, which is women are power. and looking at how we can basically set up in those situations both to treat women who have been victims of sexual violence and how we can also advocate for them.

It's pretty amazing. I mean, in Iraq, what are you doing there? So my local pastor said, Bob, you're going to help. So it turns out that ISIS came through and they raped and murdered and pillaged in these Christian communities, Yazidi communities, and a number of different minorities. And so now they're back, but they have $100 million damage just at this one town.

So I got the head of all of the U.S. Agency for International Development into our town, somebody from the vice president's office, into our town there. And so we're trying to rebuild a school and a clinic. And I've got, say, the children, international medical corps, Samarans Purse, lots of these groups interested in hopefully going to help us out there. So we want to reestablish these communities. It's an amazing cause. But, you know, give it the different cause. Because the thing is, is that, you know, with WU.

you get up in the morning, you feel so good. I have never felt better, I don't think, in my whole life. And I was the mess before, Whoop? And now that I feel so I got, I'd get up, well, can I make a difference? Well, I'm like, and I have all this energy. What can I do to help, right? Yeah, so talk to me how you first discovered whoop. So this winter, I had done 8,000 feet vertical climbing a day in Zermont.

So it's worth knowing you're a crazy athlete. Oh, so I'm a crazy athlete. We only start there. Completely fanatical. So you just give a sense of it. So during the summer, I'm a stand-up surfing racer. And these are up to 32-mile crazy races, pitching seas and wind between Hawaiian Islands. But in the winter, I do cross-country ski racing.

Best longevity of any sport. If you want to live... Cross-country skiing. Cross-country skiing. If you want to live longer than anybody else is cross-country skiing. And the new sport I do is ski mountaineering racing. These tiny little skis, you have skins on them, and you race up the mountain, take them off your ski down. And I say, ascend like a mountain line.

to send like a small whimpering child because they're, you know, so skisky the skis. So I do 8,000 feet, and I come back and I ski with my kids for the afternoon, and I go back out and do a couple hours across the end of the afternoon. And then I went to the world championships for Nordic ski racing in Norway.

So we had a 10, a 15, a 30. This is, you're competing in it. Competiting, yeah, exactly. Committee against the best in the world representing the United States against, you know, Russia, Finland, Sweden, Norway, France, Germany, Switzerland, Kazakhstan.

And so I come back, and then my last day I decided I'm going to do a ski mountain or anything up the biggest mountain in Norway. And I come back and I could barely crawl out the airplane. I said, my biggest problem is overtraining. I am always wrecked. My fiancé is always complaining, you know. You're always a mess. You're supposed to be such a great athlete.

You're supposed to be so fit. But you're a wreck. And I said, I'm going to do one thing this year. I'm going to turn this around. I'm going to figure out how not to overtrain and how to properly recover. So I had tried and tried to try to get a coach named John Spinney, who was very sought after. I started, actually, last fall, he finally goes, I got a slot. I'll take it, I'll take it, I'll take it, I'll take it.

So he starts with me, so first thing I want you to do, I want you to buy Whoop. I go, what's that? Smart coach. So he explains it to me, and I get the device, and then every morning I get up, and I start to look at this thing, and I go, oh my God, where am I today? So I start out, and as you know, the scale with Whoop is, the bottom end of the scales, 25 to 30. You're really in the sewer there in terms of being massively overtrained or not healthy. And I started looking at, I said, man, I'm a wreck. So we start saying, you've got to take a day off a week. And then you've got to have some easier days. And so as you can see, over the course of a month here,

I've gone from 32 to 115. I get out of you all, yes. So it's all the biggest problem I've had, and lots of athletes have. You know, most people out here in Boston and major cities. We're looking at Fenway Park right now. Well, not those guys over there. They're under trade, right? But most people out here, what do they do? They go out and do the same thing. They go out, they run a few miles, that's it.

Their whoops scores are going to be in the sewer wide. They do the same thing every single day. They're never fresh. They never have a great work. They're just always blog, blah, blah. Such a good point. And, you know, it's true of most master's athletes. You know, Jesse Degans, who won the gold medal,

first gold medal ever for the United States and cross-country ski for men or women. She said, you know, when I, is I stopped training so much. I let myself recover. I have, as my coach, the number of one, stand-up paddle board, the race in the world, Michael Booth from Australia. And he says,

I don't train when I feel good. I don't train otherwise, which is amazing. He trains one-third of the amount of time that I do, and he's the best guy in the world because he gives his body chance to rest, so it's ready to go. Yeah, I mean, that's one of the most interesting things

I've learned from working with high-performing athletes is the variance of intensity of a given day. And like the wood blends to that strain, right, which we measure, you know, 24-7, but you'll see some athletes have a strain of 20.5 and the next day have a strain of six.

Exactly. Meanwhile, you know, Joe Runner that you were just talking about. Is it six every day? Yeah, every day it's like a 10 or a 12, right? And that doesn't create the variability that potentially your body needs. When you see yourself go from red to yellow to green

to high greed, it's like, I am ready to create. crush it. And then when you go out, because the thing is, you never wake up and dread your workout, ever. Because you know, if you've had a high strain day and you are low on the recovery scale, you're going to go out to a very nice, kind of comfortable, slow, battle, or skate. It's going to be enjoyable. But when that turns green, man, you are ready to crush it. Yes. Yes. I mean, so you just touched on a lot there. I think the first thing that's fascinating is what you discovered in like that first week of being on whoop. Here you are high performing athlete and you're, you're overtraining your body and you're finding you've got low HRVs and you've got upcoming races and you want to, you want to turn the clock back, so to speak. So let's talk a little bit about your lifestyle, right?

What are some of the things that you're doing on a day-to-day basis that you think have helped improve your recovery beyond just the exercise because that's one piece of it? But let's talk about, you know, your diet, for example. Let's start there. So with this Q2 systems, it's a great training program. They said, you know, you need nutrition coach. Yeah. So Rachel does my whole debrief looks at this session.

He says, look, you've got to change your nutrition. What I want you to do is all those high glycemic foods that spike your bloodshutter, all the pastas and stuff like that. You can still have those, but only within the training window. So in many of my books, I've written this principle what I would call eating around your workout, the stuff you really enjoy, whether it's pasta or power of waffles or pancakes, whatever it is, eat those right around your workout and then loading for races

but otherwise it's all fruits, vegetables, healthy meats, fish and whatnot and it's much much easier knowing there's a point of the day you can cheat and with that you know your weight comes down and the HRV improves with nutritional and if someone never exercise

a day in their life and they looked at their HIV and they started to do a couple of simple things better nutrition, better sleep, decreasing their stress they'd see that star to... The HRV climb. Climb and they'd be so excited. So to better understand that, you're saying, let's say you like waffles, right? If you like waffles, you can have those, you know, right before your workout or shortly after.

That's the window. So for every hour you've trained, you have like an hour of that window. So in the first half hour, you want a recovery drink, which is protein and carbohydrate, and that refuel your glycogen stores. So there's a point of which you do want to have those spiky, high glycemic things like rice, pasta, bread, and whatever to do that because it pours fuel back into your muscles, your recovery. And then when the recovery window has gone away, it's pointless to have those foods because then you're spiking your blood sugar and you're running risk of diabetes, you're putting weight on, you feel terrible and you reckon so the nutrition has been great. The other thing I love this for is sleep because I, you can't tell this by talking to me. but I'm, and I'm pretty competitive.

And when I started to see those sleep scores, I know, man, I bet I can do better on this. Yeah. So I actually tried to go to bed earlier, and then it turned out I was lying away for about an hour and a half. So I went to bed later, and the quality of my sleep shot up. So I do a protein shake in the evening. I'd see my REM sleep come up, or if I was really, really tired and I'd come back from a trip overseas, then I'd see my deep sleep come back up again. So now I'm focusing on the sleep.

So I, of course, want to get 100 or more on my HRV score. Which, by the way, is amazing for your age, right? Because HRV declines with age. Yeah. And you've got the HRV of a 30-year-old. 45. 25, you're on the game. So I got 150, and I go, oh, yes.

Now, I've raced the Carolina Cup, which is the biggest standout paddling race in the world. Roughly 400 people from, you know, Tahiti, hungry, Australia. all over the world. And we have a class called the Unlimited, which is the fastest boat class. And I won, but, you know, it's a grueling 13.5-mile race, half of it in the open ocean,

you know, waves and wind, it's unsteady, it's hard on you. And my coach made me take an easy day and their day off. And the third day after the race, I got 150. It was like hyper recovery. So actually, I wrote...

That's a great thing. If you train hard for a few days and then completely take a day off and get the right stuff in your body, you can have a huge HRV the next day. Although it's interesting because your customer service is amazing.

Thank you. Yeah, they do a great job. Tracy in particular. She'll write back. Shout out Tracy. In the middle of the night, she's out, you know, it's 11 o'clock and I'm looking at me. She'll write back like five minutes later. So I go, what about on 15? You're worrying about that? She says, well, no, you know, what can't happen is that, you know, if you really trash yourself, you can kind of

hyper-recover, and you'll be a little careful about that. So I was the next couple of days. And actually, the following day, I went down yellow and then came back up again. But the advice you get on your customer service line, which is built right into the application. You don't have to hunt around for it. You've got a question. You go, boom, they're wonderful. I mean, I was an idiot.

I couldn't figure this out with the battery. It went out and you charge and all that stuff. And she was great. I mean, it's just real time. Well, that's part of the advantage that we have in turning whoop into a membership, right? Is that because it's a subscription, we can invest heavily in having great customer support. and we really want there to be a high degree of touch there, right, a high degree of interactivity.

So if you are having trouble with your battery pack or you want to understand your HRV, you can just email membership services and they'll respond. And I'm glad you had a good answer. See, a lot of customer services, they have a little book. There's somebody overseas, and you write up a question, they go, we'll get back here 24 hours. Yeah.

And they'll go, oh, you can find the answer on our website. Useless, right? But here, it's a very high degree of concern. and you feel like you're a member of the family. And really wonderful, incredibly helpful answers. Well, thank you for saying that. Answers that, you know, sometimes my coach didn't even have. Right.

So they're fun. Yeah, I mean, all of our membership services reps have been trained up at WOOP. So it's an opportunity for a user to try to, you know, better understand their data or anything else if they interact to them. And what's wondering what you've done well is so wonderful is that is extremely hard to build an addictive experience. It really is. Thank you. Yeah. And with medicine in particular, people love their data, regardless of what it is.

Actually, I have a very good friend who's a top professor at Harvard Medical School. He was coaching his kids basketball team, which is the worst in the state. And he would feed them nonsense. Did he go, more you guys have your laces all the way to the top and double-knotted than anybody else in the lake? Nonsense data, but he fed them data, right? Yeah. And they won! So people love any data.

They love seeing their cholesterol that turned triglycerol. drug, none of which changes that much. It's over a long period of time. There's nothing that changes, nothing, the changes that's important day to day. So HRV, as the Harvard Medical School newsletter now says, and lots of published publications, it's a great overall. It's an amazing metric. Isn't it? Yeah. And so to have something that changes every day that reflects how well or how badly you did the day before that is real positive or negative feedback about today. So if I really messed up on sleep last night and my HRV has gone down, you bet I'm going to be careful. I'm going to eat earlier. Be careful what I eat. I'm not going to have that

protein shake, right? Yeah, right. And I do it all right. I mean, I have, you know, the white noise in the room, super cold. This is your bedroom environment. By bedroom environment. So the bedroom environment. So let's talk about that. So you go cold. Cold is so important. If anyone's listening and trying to figure out how to improve sleep, just start by going way colder. So if I go, I use the same hotel chain all the time. I use married just because you travel a tonne. And so I always put it at like 65 degrees. Yeah and the hotel you have to go cold. And then I have like all the extra blankets and I'm shivering all night long. And at home, I mean up in Vermont you open the window and even now you know it's like 30 degrees and it's wonderful. And I always make sure I have an eye mask

and have a temper people. What eye mask do you use? Do you like it? I've now asked this of like five different guests. No one loves their eye mask. Everyone swears by wearing one though. So, I bought everything that Amazon has and tried them all out. We've got a stack of them here. Well, I'll take one. The eye pillow is the one that I like the best. The eye pillow. The eye pillow, because it actually sets down, you know, on your eye.

It's very comfortable. It kind of leaves, roof, your lashes. All the flat ones I find out where... I'm going to try that one. But what I do is, I mean, I run off to the tsunami in Indonesia or, you know, be it some terrible AIDS epidemic in the lower Africa or... And by the way, are you energized? going into that? Because that's also a little scary, right? You're going into a tsunami

area. Well, you know, so the National Institutes of Health has only a couple of personality types that they've ever identified genetically. And one of them is called a type T personality, which is a thrill seeker. You're type T. I have a type T. So I remember. Does that mean you're high testosterone, high T? Or it's T? Well, I'm going to start saying that. I hadn't thought of that. I'm going to use that as introduction. Yeah. Hi, my name's Bob. I'm a high team. So during the second Gulf War we're sitting there in Kuwait ready to go in and these poor Marines, you know, a lot of them had been

in combat. I've been at like 25 during wars and they're a little, and I'm going, oh, yes, bring it on. You know, and you're out there at night and your incoming missiles, you see the old sky lighting, oh boy, it's just great, isn't it? So, yeah, I'm a total type of... Downhill ski racer, downhill mountain bike racer that works, because

the type T, you know, you're always seeking stuff out because it just makes you feel challenged and feel better about stuff. You grow through the struggles. So the interesting thing is, you know, when you go off to these terrible humanitarian disasters, interesting in love, it's the most inspiring thing you can do because, yeah, there's been a terrible tragedy there. You know, people died and people are sick and injured and whatnot. But when you look at the internationally humanitarian community and their response,

I mean, it's the most amazing thing you've ever seen. Because I was in Somalia during the famine. We were having lunch, and we hear a rocket-propelled grenade fire down in the local marketplace. 54 women and children have been hit by RPG fire and in wars roughly 65% of the dead are women and children

they're non-combatting. Because they target them it's not an accident it's actually part of the war strategies to kill civilians so they bring them up to the emergency room there we're trying to save lives some of them die right away and there's a little four and a half year old girl named Aisha

and Aisha's cold, pale, sweaty, bleeding out She's not going to survive. And this American pediatrician, Mickey Richard, goes, I'm not going to let another little girl die. They had no blood mags. So she goes, hey, vampire, come here. Guy comes up, he's the blood tech, puts an IV into her arms. She pumps out a pint and a half of her own O positive donor blood,

puts it a little girl and saves her life. Wow. And that, of course, is the bottom line. That's awesome. And that is the best possible result for the patient. So, no, I mean, it's just, it's so inspiring to see these groups like, Save the Children, International Medical Corps. Samaritan's person is a wonderful organization.

I'm on the board now. Artists for Peace and Justice with Ben Stiller and Susan Sarandon. Nice. We have a wonderful school and hospital down in Haiti. Global Outreach Doctors on the board there were the ones that have this mission off to the Congo and Uganda. So it's the most inspiring thing you can never do. You know, I'm so psyched that my son, Hayden, who you know,

is putting on a big gala on Saturday night for Save the Children. I know that's going to be amazing. And what's incredible is, you know, in this day and age, it's like, you know, it's a paycheck and how I afford this and, you know, I'm going to go on investment banking or I'm going to do a startup and all that. But, you know, you're so focused on yourself and, you know, it should be, you know. But when you go to these situations, you completely lose yourself and you're lost in this greater good. And it's just this amazing kind of mass consciousness of being out there really trying to save the world. And it's the most inspiring thing you can imagine. No, it sounds, I mean, it sounds incredible, and obviously everyone's very lucky that you're so focused on it.

Well, because I call myself a sort of humanitarian tours, because I'm out there, for a couple months at a time, that these people spend their careers out there, you know, are out there year in, you're out there, they're out there, they're real heroes, they're just amazing. No, it's amazing. So, let's go back for a second to sleep. Right. Cold, eye mask. You said white noise. So do you have a machine or something for that?

So actually, I have an air conditioner that we use even all winter long to me. make the room even colder to have the white noise. Oh, wow. So, you know, there's a huge percentage of the public that has sleep problems. You know, a lot of his anxiety and some of it's depression, so it can help to see a psychiatrist sometimes if you have those. Sure. It really can help.

But I think with sleep, you know, people completely underrate how good, good sleep hygiene is. And good sleep hygiene are some simple things. So I do wear an eye mask. You want no light at all. I call a light room. I have all the light blocked every which way. I use some Bose earphones. Oh, do you use the ones that cancel the noise?

No, I cancelling earphones. So I put those up. Then I have a temperapeutic pillow. And with those three devices, I'll go all over the world. I'll land in Indonesia and have to sleep on an airport floor. Or I'll be in Congo on a refugee camp floor. I can sleep any place because I get my pillow. I'm asking my hose earphones.

And then over and above that, you know, I will make sure it's as cold as it possibly can. And then I'll put on some white noise. And I'm very careful by eating. You want to eat, you know, early. So there's nothing to be churning away in your stomach. How many hours do you try to eat before bed? I try to do five hours. Wow.

I mean, I really try to go a long way ahead. Now, when do you go to sleep typically? So typically 12 to 1 o'clock in the morning, sometimes too. So a little later. A little later. With whoop, I got to beat the sleep score. So I went to back 10.30. And I looked at it, he goes, you know, you're lying to wait for an hour and 15 minutes.

I go, forget that. That's a wasted time. So I went back to going to bed late. And I do well on the score. And then I take a nap in the afternoon, and it's a perfect mix. So if you were to hone in on your upcoming race, so you've got a race on Saturday? Saturday. So tomorrow.

What are some of the things you've been doing to focus on tapering? So number one is I look at my wump as a guide here. And as you can see with my HRV here. It's trending up. It's trending up. So last weekend I was trained hard, hard, hard, hard. I have a three-time Olympian that I spar with on Wednesdays. We go out and we do 14 times formate intervals as hard as we possibly can.

I'll try to beat them, right? We really try to grind them into the ground and vice versa. And this is paddleboarding. This is paddle boarding. Oh, it does sound all that great. I like to call it stand up surfing because it sounds a little bit better. Stad of surfing. So you can see that.

So what did I do? You know, I completely dumped myself, right? Well, this is fascinating just for, I'm looking at this. But on Saturday, last Saturday, so this is six days ago, your HRV is a 40. Right. Right. As of this morning, your HRV is like a 90. Isn't that amazing?

Yeah, that's a great, I mean, that's amazing how dynamic it is. And tomorrow, by the way, the last three days it's been going up, tomorrow you're probably going to be over 100 greens up. Ready to crush it. Totally. And it's interesting because I had, when I had my first race with WOOP, which is this Carolina Cup, it's probably the best race I've ever had in terms of just feeling amazing.

Oh, good. You know, the last four or five miles, you're back out in the open ocean. against the wind, against the way, it's getting very competitive. And I felt I just dug in. I just went faster and faster every single mile. It's a combination, of course, of great nutrition and being really prepared. Because, you know, it's not as easy as easy day hard week or easy week, hard week.

I'll find that I might do five hard days in a row, but I recover really well. My coach will continue going. Yeah, just keep going. Or it might be. Or it might be. You know, I fall, fall, and I'm down. And ordinarily, I would have just taken a Monday off, but then I'll get two easy days. So I tell all the coaches I know there's no possible way that you can properly advise an athlete on how to train without whoop.

It just can't be done. You'll guess, and you will guess wrong. You'll have training hard when they're wrecked. You'll have them training easy where they could really put it in an amazing day because you don't have the data. It's all data driven. Well, I mean, I appreciate you saying that. It's certainly how I feel about it now, having spent so much time with this technology. And you're now 86 years old.

Amazing. Well, what do you do? I'm 29 years old. No, it's been a great journey. And part of it's just the, you know, the excitement of getting to work with people like you. And the team you have here is amazing. Incredible people. What inspiring people. Yeah, kind of like energetic, you know, look at the fierce determination in their eyes. And by the way, we're drinking, you know, we're eating our own dog food because every day everyone's wearing whoop. And so we can see leading up to a product launch, for example, I can go through each day. team within whoop and say okay well the software team's starting to redline and the hardware team must

be feeling good about what they're about to release because you know everyone's on the green side there and you know so it must be it's fascinating but it must be an amazing sort of human resources tool because you go and bob you know i was going to chew you out so you're really you know not really kind of like meaning of expectations here but mean you've been on redline for four days in a row what's going on No, it changes that dynamic. And it's funny because now, there will be meetings where you're sort of half joking, but you'll say, oh, Mark, you know, you're in the red today. I might not take what you're saying quite as serious.

You know? And I think about it too. As CEO, like there are certain days where I don't want to make an important decision. If you just got off a red eye and you're redlining for two days, do you really want to make that big decision that day? Maybe quite literally sleep on it, right? Don't take the red eye, you know. The red eyes are bad.

That's one thing I've really learned on it. You lose two or three days. You're better off taking like a one of the afternoon flight. So you get all your meetings in L.A. or San Francisco. And then you can work on the plane all the way back and get back and have a decent night's sleep. You know, I think it's, I'm still at a stage, though, in my life where I'm so addicted to building this company that if I think there's any edge to seeing someone in person, I'm going to do it. And I'll just get on the plane. And so for me, yeah, I still end up taking a good number of red eyes.

And what I've tried to do with whoop is not be red after a red eye. So that's, if I can get in the yellow. So what do you do? So I've kind of dialed it in. One thing I try to do is 15 minutes of any form of activity within a couple hours of the flight. Now, sometimes that's hard, but I'm okay to feel a little sweaty going on to the flight. And that could just be push-ups. That could be jumping rope.

Like, you just need to get your blood going. I take melatonin about 30 to 45 minutes before I board. So it's a bit of a longer window than I normally would. When I go to bed at home, I probably take melatonin 20 minutes before bed. Whereas if I know I'm going to go into kind of an unrestful environment, I'll take it longer before bed. I've got an eye mask, so I'll do that. I always try to be in the window seat because then you can kind of, you know, avoid the rest of the audience. and I probably drink a gallon of water over the course of maybe four or five hours before

the flight. Like I drink an enormous amount of water. And when I was younger, I would probably have two beers or something, although I've cut that out a little bit. Yeah, I used to kind of like... Add it with a purple bag. Yeah, have a few drinks before it. But I think that's another thing. If you can not drink on flights, that makes a huge difference.

And so with all that, you know, hopefully I'll end up in the yellow. So I tell advantage to tell my fiancé this last night, and that is a lot of people don't go to sleep because they're anxious, they're worried, they're kind of running through their day, and I just, I'm a big believer in sort of, you know, working in a feed-forward rather than a feedback loop. In other words, I'm going to do this, not because I feel hungry or bad or tired, I'm going to do this because of how good I'm going to feel. And so asleep, if you say,

I'm going to optimize everything. I mean, give up that dinner, you get to the drinks. I'm not going to think about all that stuff. I'm not going to take that later meeting because I know if I wake up tomorrow and I'm in the green, I'm going to have such a good day. I can be so productive in those first three hours

of being in the high green than I cut in a whole week of being in the red. So, you know, just try to be optimal. Totally. Yeah. The amount of output that you can get from being green is so much higher than the output that you can get from being yellow. is so much higher than the output you can get from being red.

And mentally and physically. And physically, yeah, mentally and physically. That's a great way of looking at it. And we actually reflect that in the scores. So what's interesting is your recovery score is on a linear scale. So it's zero to 100%. But your strain score from zero to 21 is nonlinear. It's exponential.

So it gets increasingly hard to go up it. Oh, yeah. Because my coach really goes, I'm going to go for a red day. I keep going. I have to go for a red day too, you know. So if you're green and you're, do the equivalent level of strain on the whoop side, like you can keep going up that scale and keep pushing and keep pushing and keep pushing.

And so that's one thing I think that's interesting about, I know right now you're looking at the difference between your strain and recovery on a daily basis. So one thing we tell users to look at is how do you match your strain with your recovery on a daily basis? Now, the other thing, you know, I think it's well as so I have now, I mean, I'm a. You know, it's been years training in and doing research and exercise physiology and biomechanics. And so, you know, one big thing, I'm a huge believer in is what I call signpost. In other words, you have done like Google has. You built this amazing thing.

And it's many things to many different people. And for people who are unfamiliar with whoop, they might go, well, I don't apply this to me. So let me just go through a couple of use cases in your history. I think are pretty interesting. So here's one for an athlete. This is kind of me, I hope, I'd say that in a morning. That is, when you get out, the first thing you see is your HRV, and it goes, hammer time. So I look here, I go red, I'm yellow, nine green, it's like, it's hammer time.

So that's signposting to say, for the athlete, it tells me. Time to crush it. Now's the time to crush it. Whether it's a race, we're going to have the big work that I want to do. And by the way, that's an interesting area of development for us in research. So we've got this thing called the voice of whoop. And on every screen, you'll see this little box that is talking. talking to you.

Oh, I love that. I love that because it's so personal. Yeah. It's like, how do you figure that out? What is that behind there? Right. It's like our, you know, it's our AI coach. And over time, it's just going to keep getting smarter.

And I think over time it's going to learn how to talk to you. So it's going to tell that you're type T, so to speak, you know, and you want to hear it say hammer time, right? And someone else might need a gentler nudge. You might also see how much time there's the air interface can see how much time you're spending on each screen where your biggest improvements are. where your biggest improvements are. Oh, totally. And that's the kind of stuff where technology is so powerful

because you can keep investing in it and it's going to keep going. Now, I want to understand for a second all of the things that you do for a recovery, right? Our audience is fascinated by recovery. You are recovering remarkably well as a professional athlete. What kind of stuff do you do for your muscles, for example? Are you into massage therapy? Are you into acupuncture? Do you do hot cold?

Any of these things? So I would love to do the massage and all that, but like most people, I'm so busy, I can't possibly do it. Yeah, just don't have the time. So what I do is I have deep learning courses that I watch every night, you know, recurrent neural networks

or convolutional neural networks. And I do my own hot yoga. So I actually went out to Bickram Yoga. I went to Bickram, South, in Los Angeles. I learned all the different poses so I can do it myself. And I stand there for about a half hour and 45 minutes and every single night, I do the bedroom yoga.

You do yoga every night. Every night. And will you make the room you're in hot when you do it or no, doesn't matter? So you're just doing the... I think it's a gimmick on. Yeah, so you think the hot thing's a gimmick. Well, I think that, you know, early on it may prevent injuries, but once you're used to, you don't need to.

And, in fact, during the invasion of Iraq, I was with the first Marine Expeditionary Force. And I was with the first regimental combat team. And, of course, you couldn't go for on her bike ride because he had the enemy all around you. And there was shooting at you. So we get these three M-on-A-O-N tanks, and we get a group in the circle behind the tanks, and I'd lead a Bickham yoga session every night.

That's such a funny image. Or in Darfur. A bunch of yoga poses behind tanks. So we were the only people ever getting to North Darfur during the Darfur crisis. And again, there's no place you could go because, you know, the Jan Juhuid were out there, oh, this crazy horseman, and he gets shot. So, you know, we'd go and do the yoga, which is, you know, fantastic. So yoga's big.

So yoga's big. And I'm amazed you do that every day. So that's got to be something that's important too. It's just being able to stay flexible as you get older, right? Because your muscles don't they, what is it, they shrink over time, right? So the most interesting thing that happens with aging is that, sure, you actually, you have a, you lose 12 pounds of muscle a decade starting at 40 as a male and 4 to 6 as a female. With that, you lose energy, vitality, enthusiasm. everything, and you're going to gain white. But they found right here in Boston,

in a study out of Harvard Medical School, with 93-year-olds that you were moved for the agent, you could actually have the same percentage improvement as a 25-year-old, 183% increase in strength, 284% increase in muscular endurance. By doing what? Weight training. Okay.

So I wrote a book called Turning Back the Clock many years ago. I still get residuals from it. By the way, it's still relevant. And what's interesting about this book, that, as I said, you have what are the twin engines of aging. So think of a twin-engine airplane with these two engines turning. If you lose an engine, you can fly, but you've now gone from 300 miles now to 125 miles and you're barely in the air.

That would be if you're either doing just aerobic or you're doing just weight turning. If you do the two of them together, then you're maintaining your muscle mass. Look at runners. Runners over time, you're going to get slower and slower and slower. And then they're going to get thinner and thinner and then finally you get fraoni. I mean, that's kind of it. So it's incredibly important to be able to keep that muscle mass up so I do regular weight training. And the other thing is the main thing that happens with aging is you lose elasticity.

So if you're a runner, what's really happening is you still get a good heart and lung power. You know, you train hard and whatnot. But your muscles just aren't elastic so you hit that pavement. You get a little zing out of it. You're preloaded and pop back off. The pop is gone. So I advise sports that are going to put elasticity back in. So cycling will do that for sure.

Great way to put elasticity back in. Cross-country ski is another way to put it back in, stand-up paddle boarding. You don't have the impact. So I'm looking at how do I build elasticity. So I do it with the sports that build elasticity, and I also do it with the Bickram Yoga. And the other thing I've started doing is I do... And will you do weightlifting? I do weight lifting two or three days a week.

Okay. And I'll go out there. There's a whole Sybix setup at our gym. I'll do the cable. I'll do every machine in the whole gym. Sure. Shows, but I mean, it's important because whatever muscles you're using, you're using a part of it. And this way you use the whole machine.

muscle. You're able to recruit much more of the whole muscle and you're able to keep that muscle mass up there to prevent injury and to stay young. And then the elasticity piece, I think, is just so important. So I think the victim yoga does that. And the final thing that I do is I use a roller every night. Oh, nice. It's poor man or woman's massage. Miofascial release, right? But it's phenomenal. My coach started doing that. And so I do, you know, all the major muscles and it works out pretty well. So great diet. You've got all these techniques. for muscle therapy, for elasticity. I like what you said about runners, by the way.

That's a little controversial, but there's a lot of people who run 10, 20 miles, you know, over a two-day period, right? And that's kind of their main shtick. You're saying effectively that people who are doing that over time are going to fall apart if they don't introduce things around elasticity and weight training or strength, right? If you're an elite, elite runner, right? Yeah. You know, you're 70s, 80s, you're fine. I mean, you know, he's a super light flame, but a light frame is two pounds per inch of body height.

So I'm... Say that again. So a frame for male runner is two pounds per every inch of body height. It might be, say, 1.6 for a woman. But that would mean at 6'4, I'd have to wait like 150 pounds, which would be... I have to start cutting off limbs to get there, right? Oh, interesting. And so, you know, if you don't have that, you know, you're better off doing somebody else.

So you have to be really light to me. Really, really light. And what is part of the issue? I mean, I read in one of your books about your criticism of impact sports and how you want to try to create a layer between the impact. Talk about that. So put a machine between yourself in the pavement. There you go. Machine between you and the pavement.

So when you look at, so there are a couple of barometers. Right. HRV phenomenal day-to-day barometer, probably the best of all. Then you have max CO2. So max CO2, which is how much oxygen can you? heart and lung transport, how much can your muscles suck up? So obviously, the more muscles you use, the more you can suck up. And the higher your max, the O2 would be.

So as a barometer, those people who live the very longest, who have the lowest we call all-cause death, are cross-country skiers. And that's why I go to the World Championships for cross-country ski racing, race every weekend all winter. But secondly, that would be cyclists. Why? Because they can go high load, right? I mean, high training load. With low impact. but low impact on the body.

Interesting. So that ability to spin up, increases the elasticity, allows you to get that load out there. Whereas running, if you're having no problem, I'm wanting, fine. But for a lot of people who run,

they really aren't kind of built forward. I did all the marathons that I was doing the Iron Man, and I go, boy, my hips don't feel good. They look from, they go, there's been no cartilage left there for years. They had to go and, you know,

put in new stuff. Well, I still put squash, which is pretty tough on your body. Oh, that's very hard of your body. Yeah. So I think I need to introduce one of these sports. I mean, I don't do cross-country seeing. I don't do cycling. Maybe paddle boarding. I mean, you know, one of those might be good for me. I'll get your paddleboard. I'll get an excellent. We'll get your set up. Come up to the place tomorrow. I put you on the star lines. I know. That would be awesome. So the paddleboarding, how did you get into that? Or when did you first start some of these sports? Let's start there. Because you were doing, you're an Iron Man guy. Right. So in my book, turning back the clock, I said my whole philosophy of sport is,

in early. We didn't get out before the good guys get in. And so I started out as a, in fact, it's interesting. When I was in Summer Camp, Camp Hawaiian, up in New Hampshire, I think I was 12 years old. I was the worst athlete you can ever imagine. They put me out in left field and they put two other guys out there just in case of all that gave my direction. So traditional sports were traditional sports. And so I was really kind of ejected. And then this exercise physiologist, who's a cap counselor, actually from Northeastern, comes and he says, Bob. You're not a team score player. You're an internist athlete.

You're a great swimmer, runner, cyclist. That afternoon. I went out to do my own first triathlon. I was so pumped up. And I never looked back. I don't think I've got to miss a day since. So I went on and I did ski racing during college. I did ski racing cross-country ski racing during medical school.

I got a much more cross-country ski racing as a resident. One of the Canadian ski marathon with my team, mixed team, two years in a row. And so I got into the sports. So then I did a lot of running, you know, the 10K, 10 mile, half marathons, marathons. Then I went to the Iron Man, then I went to the long distance, bike racing. So all along the way, you're picking up, of course, a big aerobic package. But I'm a huge believer in another part of sport, which people kind of ignore, that's motor learning. That is, if you're intellectually curious, there's a whole intellect around sport,

This kind of, where are you, you know, spatially? And the Harvard School of Education Act, they talk, Gardner talks about seven kinds of intelligence, so one of them is kinesthetic. So I love learning all the intricacies of sport, whether cross-country ski, I see, whatever. And so panel boarding is, for me, it's the zenith, because it takes everything I ever did in my whole career

and pulls it in. It's a great aerobic sport. It's got all the balance of downhill skiing or surfing. It's an aerobic sport. that takes all the muscles in the body, it's just the lower body. It's tremendous core strength. And by the way,

for people who haven't heard of paddleboarding that are just reacted to its name, like watch a video of high competition paddleboarding, the stuff Bob's doing. It's fucking intense. Oh, isn't it amazing? Yeah, it is. And I can tell it is exhausting

just from watching. I mean, the movement of it is, it's all core. It feels like it's upper body, lower body. If you fall off that thing, you probably feel like a jackass. Does that ever happen, by the way? Oh, yeah.

Well, like, still, you will the best of the world fall off? Well, so for the Molokai Oahu race, the Wall Street Journal says, after you've done the Iron Man and all the marathons, step up to the hardest sport in the world. And it's either doing... That's a big endorsement. It's either doing Crested But Aspen on cross-country

on skis during the winter, or it's doing Molokai Oahu. Both of what you've done. So you set the scene, you start a Molokai, and the wind starts to build during the night, which makes you worry, because the more of the wind, the more likely you're going to get injured.

And you get out there, and you get out there's your market set go, couple hundred athletes, and they all charge out into the owner. You can't see a while. Now, you're in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, the single most dangerous ocean passage in the whole world. And then the waves start to build, and the wind starts to build, and it's like 15, 20, 25 feet. House-high waves. This last year, a row wave comes, dumps me out, and I look over, and it's an Ohio-class U.S. Navy nuclear submarine, and I'll show you the picture of it. Oh, my gosh. But I have a coach out there. And so I get on this wave, and you start going down

the wave and it's scary because you're so you're actually trying to surf the wave after you've been paddling so it's what you would so there's a lot of strategy to that too right so the sport truly is what you call big ocean surfing is what it is that's truly what it is because you're out there you try to catch these waves and paddle so i have a coach out there and she's going bob paddle paddle paddle paddle brace praise you're like this trying to fall on the paddle paddle paddle praise and you go down and you're looking at your spenometer which you have on the front of the board you're going 10, 15, 20, 25 miles an hour, 30 miles an hour, which is faster than most people going to a mountain bike.

So you're flying. So you're flying down there. And how many miles is it? 32 miles. Gosh, that sounds like a lot, too. One year I knocked these two back teeth out. Another year I dislocated my shoulder. Another year I hit a shark.

Holy shit. And how long does it take? It takes me about seven hours. Seven hours. Wow. Of misery. And will it be one of those things where just the person, who wins, like you often, you'll just be out in front for the whole race? Or is there,

is there, like, you know, in some sports, like marathon running, I think is a good example. Like, the person who wins isn't O's in first for the whole race. Well, it's interesting. So, you know, I will win a lot of the local races around here, like the Blackburn Challenge, I gave my 500-run choice. Many of the unlimited class, like for the biggest race in the world, Carolina Cup, I'll win that particular class. For the World Championships in Hawaii, I mean, I'll win my age group me and the one below it. But the guys who win win that race, I mean, there are hours fast. I mean, they are, they're just in the water. And how old are they?

20, 25 years old. But they're amazing. They dance around that board. You know, and they're super light, and they're really narrow boards. And they are just spectacular. I mean, it's the most amazing athletic you see. And they'll be neck and neck all the way across, neck and neck and then they'll go in. And there's a lot of strategies as to what line you take. And you stay with the wind more or the wave more. Yeah, gosh. And so will you outline the course that you're going to take on the ocean well before the race, I would think? So what I'll do is, in fact, one year I'm on the peach and they go, this is a U.S. Navy warship, whatever the name was.

We like to speak to Dr. Bob Arnott. And so it's front of mine as a navigator, a U.S. Navy warship. So they're calling from the head of the channel again. We like to give you a report of the channel. And so they did, you know, with a wind and wave work. Oh, cool. And so you're going between this point and that point, right? and so usually you take what's called the rum line so you just go right straight across like this

the diagonal of two points right but let's say that there's uh you know a huge amount of wind maybe you'll come up like this so you go a mile or too high and you'll dive down with a wind so there is a strategy and i'll say to my boat captain say you know stay on the rum line or stay a mile or two north of the rum line so there's a lot of strategy because if you get too low you won't make it you won't be able to get back into the harbor well congratulations on your amazing paddleboarding career. I want to ask you about coffee. Oh, good.

So you've written, let me get prepared for this. Yeah, we're both drinking coffee. You have written two books on coffee. You have your own coffee company. So I've had a love-hate relationship with coffee personally. When I was probably, so I'm 29, when I was 23, 24, 25, I was just drinking it all day.

And I realized I would just shoot up and I would crash and I'd shoot up. And the moment from me where I caught myself is I realized my behavior in a meeting, like the way that I would handle myself, would actually vary depending on how recently I had coffee. And I just feel like that wasn't a good way to run a company. You'd be like Uber. Yeah, I'm asking 25 questions in one meeting and I'm dead silent in the next, you know. It's just, you know, you try to have an equilibrium. as in managing anything so um and and so you know over time i eventually cut it out completely and for about two years i only drank tea primarily earl gray tea just black tea and maybe i'd

have a cup in the morning cup in the afternoon so i totally lowered my caffeine dosage and what i found is that my highs were were lower but my lows were higher right it was just a mellower ride to that, right? And now I've started to bring coffee back in and I'm probably doing one cup of coffee a day, one cup of tea a day. Anyway, all is that's the buildup to try to understand like should I be trying to drink a lot of coffee is the goal to figure out how your body can metabolize more of it. I know that there's certain coffee grinds that are better than others and that's something I don't really know a lot about. So anyway, with that is the backdrop. Talk to me on So we're now in the same group.

So 45% of the American public has a genetic aberration, which means they are slow caffeine processors. Okay. You're one, I'm one. How do you know I'm one? Because you got back to one copy a day, and you were so erratic and you were having more. So what happened is?

Okay, got it. So we did a published scientific study. We had slow and fast processors. So the slow processor, the next morning, would have, say, 700 of whatever the unit of caffeine in their blood. is that morning, the slow processors would be 17,000. A day later, it was as if they just had that cup of coffee. So you're really up and up and up. And actually, six cup of coffee a day would be terrible for you because your blood pressure is up, your pulse would be up, you'd be anxious.

In fact, I talked to the head of neurology of Mass General, espousing coffee, and you goes, Bob, all I do all day long is tell my anxious patients to stop drinking coffee. I know. That's the other thing is I found I was more stressed, you know, the more coffee I was drinking. But now if you had the gene that made you a fast processor, you'd have six or seven cups. You'd have an express at 11 o'clock at night and be sound asleep at 1115 because you're a fast processor. But as a slow processor, you have to realize that the importance is a thing called a polyphenol. So I did a bunch of doctorate. Polyphenols, yeah, critical. And the other shell, he goes, what the heck is a polyphenol for the audience? Because he obviously

knew. And so he had all of research at Mass General, Harvard Medical School, Expeaside when he goes, Bob, the average in American is an inflammatory disaster inside. And by that, even, heart, lung, liver, blood vessels, everything is just an inflammatory mess leading to heart disease, depression, anxiety, cancer, I mean, all kinds of terrible diseases. You know, maybe 15%, or 50%, maybe 50% of heart disease is related to inflammation. So how do you cut inflammation? obviously dying exercise is part, but the polyphenol is maybe the best fire extinguisher. The best anti-inflammatory substance that there is anywhere.

A study came out of Europe, and the guy working says, Bob, Bob, I'm singing paper. You're going to read the most important thing that's come out in the last 30 years. And what it did is it showed that those people with the very highest overall polyphenol intake had a 30% decrease in all-caused death. Now, 30%, that's enormous. That's huge, right. It's more than you get out of any diet, exercise program, pill, surgery, anything you're going to imagine. So how do you get that?

It is literally a menu of polyphenols. Number one's coffee because of the chlorogenic acid in it. But you don't have to have the caffeine. A giant... So, excuse me, not that, um, uh, decaf. Decaf. But most decas are terrible. Most decaps use a very low-quality bean, so it's of no use.

Okay. So if you have a high-quality decaf out of, like there's an Ethiopian Saddam as an example, or there's... Yeah, plug some great coffees. Like, if I have a cup of cold brew at Starbucks, am I drinking poison, am I drinking something that's mediocre, or am I drinking something that's good? So I am the biggest believer in saving yourself as you save the world. Okay. So those coffees, they come out of the highlands of Ethiopia, are the highlands of Kenya or the highlands of Colombia, or the highlands of Colombia. you know, where people have a hard time going to have eking out of a living. They have the most amazing coffee beans because those beans that are highest have the most cold and wind and rain and cloud.

So these are gritty beans, that's what you're saying. You're stressing that bean to protect itself, and it protects itself with lots of polyphenols. Interesting. So, for instance, in Ethiopian Hambela, it's an all-female run farm donated by the emperor of Ethiopia to the first World War II female fighter pilot, right? Or Nyeria in Kenya.

So these are much more expensive beans. Now, Starbucks to their credit, and they're phenomenal, you know, boutique stores and Seattle's in without all this stuff. But, you know, the run-of-the-mill coffee shop, you know, you should be able to walk in and get what I would call a single origin. When you look up there, you should say Ethiopia, Kenya, Colombia is a single origin. And it should be a light roast. And with those elements, you're honing in on a better coffee.

here in Boston example there's I think you have Barrington Roosters is a very good company Barrington Roosters up in Newbury Street there So single origin Single origin

High altitude High altitude Kenya Ethiopia would be My top two picks Wheela region of Columbia would be another pick They're parts of Guatemala

and Costa Rica that have high altitude And the reason those coffees are better than something that you know is made in the States is that it's going to have more polyphenols

Yes so now if i'm if i'm someone who takes a while to metabolize coffee i should have that ethiopian coffee but potentially decaf you know uh and and and maybe just drink less caffeine or try to get more of the polyphenols so you could have a cup or two of the ethiopian coffee because death wish will have like 175 milligrams of caffeine and ethiopian or kenyan coffee will have more like 145 or 138 so it's lower anyhow got it now the other thing that's interesting is we've found that when people report drinking coffee or caffeine before bed dramatically affects their sleep terrible but i imagine that varies drastically based on your metabolism of coffee is that fair

it's fair enough what i love on the hoops side is that you ask have you had caffeine within four hours of going to sleep yeah it's a big thing i would have you have caffeine after 10 o'clock in the morning for most people and certainly if you're a very fast process I wouldn't have it but after after after when after 10 over 11 o'clock of the morning oh wow so I probably have my last cat if I have coffee in the afternoon it's probably as late as 3 p.m. It's a little late yeah maybe that's too late well this is why I do these things I learn you got a company in a run right yeah I learned well no I learn but just to finish off the point so it's interesting you went to green tea.

The macha green tea. Well, I went to Earl Gray, but I'm also interested in green tea because I think that's quite good for you. So polyphenols, the green tea will have more. The machin green tea has up to seven times as much. So, look, we all are going after boutique foods now. Why are we going after boutique beverages?

You know, food has failed in terms of transforming most people. They haven't transformed their health, and they haven't transformed their weight or anything else. Well, why have beverages? Because beverages are inherently healthier for you. So a high polyphenol coffee, a high polyphenol, macha-grade green tea, a great burgundy or red wine. Sure.

A great sort of artistic. That'll have polyphenols in it too. Oh, sure. Interesting. But it's a different guy. That's called Resveritro. Do you buy that wine is good for you and can help aging? No.

I mean, look. Like one glass, though. It's not like a drink of bottle and a knife. Exactly. So, you know, I buy it in that the resveratrol is good for you. You need to have a case a night to really get enough to completely transform it, right? Right. But some people did it.

Which somehow they gave mice like a massive dose of that and the mice lived longer. I remember that study too much. So that study was so much. It was a case in a night. Yeah. Yeah. You wouldn't be able to get that in your system without all the other alcohol. It's a lot of money to spend on their mice.

So, I mean, what else do you think is going on in this country with food, right? Because I feel like you have two things. things happening at once and they're sort of like pushing in opposite directions. One is you've got the lower end of the market growing, right? You've got the McDonald's and Burger Kings of the world successfully growing big businesses. And look, there's something to be said for the fact that you can have a $2 hamburger that actually gives you enough nutrition to run on like just from an energy standpoint. On the other side, you've got this, these super high end boutique, whole food, type experiences, but

I mean, have ever been to Irwan out in L.A.? No. Oh my God, this place is like, it's like Whole Foods on crack. It makes Whole Foods look like a dump. And, you know, you can get these like $40 smoothies and all these crazy antioxidant chocolates and keto this and keto that.

And it just feels like the country's moving in two different directions where one side is really extreme diets, really perfected foods. and, you know, these concepts of fasting and one to eat all of us. And the other side is, you know, what's the cheapest and taste the best and, you know, go from there. And a lot of people have a terrible day. I mean, you know, they have a low-paying job, you know. Do you agree with that overall assessment?

I agree completely. I think that you have this two huge forks in the road. Yeah. The majority fork is going to be fast food, no exercise, you know, and it's what I call the feedback. I'm hungry, and therefore I'm going to go out and you never. burger and fries, I'm going to feel better. And it creates a negative cycle, too. Which is where I think

HRV and WOOC could play a big role with insurers or take a Medicaid population. How fabulous would it be to give people WOOP device? Have them watch what it's like on the bad food and then have them start to eat better and watch their Woop score come back. That's what I love about this as a health

parameter. But sure, you have one group here eating better and better and better and healthier and healthier. And then when you look at it, I say, look at America has this epidemic of what I call cardio diabetes, in other words, cardiac disease, diabetes and obesity, and it spawned by fast foods, no exercise, terrible, terrible lifestyle. And when you look at the majority of our spending in our health care budget, the trillions of dollars we spend every year, it is generated by cardio diabetes, which is

generated by awful lifestyle. You change lifestyle, you win everything. And I think, I call it the medicalization of terrible lifestyle. In other words, you come into a doctor and you have diabetes and say, oh, I'm going to load you up with you, this medicine, that medicine, this medicine, you've got to do some lifestyle stuff. But we really got it to say, hey, you know, this is how you fix yourself. And, you know, I looked at this with a few books. One is called the Aztec Diet. And it said, look at, you know, the Aztecs 500 years ago, I had the best nutrition on earth. In fact, when the Chinese and the Europeans took the Aztec diet and elements of it, their life expectancy popped by 10 years. They might not, you know, Europe might not have been dominant if not for the Aztec diet.

So, that's fascinating. What I love is the idea of embracing a culture. For instance, a friend of mine went to the native Hawaiian population, which has the worst. Wait a second. What was special about the Aztec diet? So the Aztec diet had grains that were very low glycemic index and increased. incredibly healthy for you. Okay.

So they would have quinoa. The harder was chia. They would go out and they would fight the Spanish with just a little sack of chia, which would all would have. And the current Tarahomara runners in Mexico, they run... They're fascinating, by the way.

It's a whole separate story. It's 100, 150 miles a day, just on chia, you know? Very, very little in terms of nutrients, but just the right nutrient. So I'm a huge believer that, you know, you have to excite people. So I think HRV-WOP excites people.

But I also think that you're looking at cultural diet. So I gave a talk out in United Arab Emirates a couple years ago on the Arabic diet. And I said, look, you know, you look at who you were back in the 1930s in Saudi Arabia. You know, you look at King Abdulaziz. He was a wiry, thin, fiery, running around, you know, with a sword and a scamble, right? And you look now at these people are like 250 or 300 pounds, you know, sitting in a room having people give them dates. It's ridiculous. But if you return to your origin, you know, the...

The Berbers is an example of North Africa. If you look at the Arabic populations in the Middle East there, there's so much healthier if they return to camel milk, which is incredibly healthy, you know, in dates and all the wonderful foods. But a friend of mine did this in Hawaii. He went to the native Hawaiians who have the worst overall health in the United States, terrible health. It was rampant diabetes and stroke and heart disease and early death.

And he said, I don't want you to eat these foods because I tell them you good for you. I want you to eat them because they're part of your cultural heritage. The tarot is the stillborn daughter of one of the guys of the wife. And so they wanted these thighs. And like the diabetes would be erased. Like seven days later, blood sugar's back down to normal. And they'd be so hyperlycemia because they were still taking the insulin. So they had to stop taking the insulin.

Well, messaging for behavior changes, you know, it's an art. It really is. And you have to get excited about it. Yeah. You have to pumped up about it. You can't do anything as you have to. You have to do it because you really want to. And so, I mean, I think, for instance, African-Americans, you know, when you look at the diet that Africans ate, it's phenomenal.

I mean, still is. You know, if you go to, I spent years in Africa. Yeah. And in parts of Africa, there's no colon cancer. There's no retro cancer all. It just doesn't exist. Super, super high fiber diet. No heart disease, no stroke.

Candy or I spent years, I mean, actually speaks on helium, a bunch of, you know, local dialects there. and they had in Kenya no heart disease until we brought the Western diet. Now, the high end is starting to have coronary care units, put the low end. I mean, you know, the tribal life out there, they don't need it. You know, they don't get coronary heart disease. So, you know, it's lifestyle, but it's getting excited about it and having pride in your culture and what your culture used to eat. Now, you know, the culture you don't have pride in, if you're like English, Irish, Scottish, or German.

because the funny slogan, actually not so funny, is that we killed off all our diabetics 500 years ago. The diet was so terrible that anybody with that diabetic predisposition died 500 years ago. And now you just have this incredibly robust genetic mix. So what do you think of keto? You know, I really don't like it. I mean, on the one hand, I kind of buy being on, you know, proteins for a certain part of the diet. day but you're just not going to have the energy if you don't have the carbohydrates to be able to run you know all of the exercise physiologists when you look at the ability to perform

it's whoever has the most muscle glycogen spares the most muscle glycogen is the one who wins and i mean you know being ketotic is you know a disease state we learned about a medical school right so i'm not a big fan i am a fan of having you know high protein and is a big part of your day, but also in being to load up your muscles and having a portion of your day right around your workout when you're going to fuel up and refuel. Yeah, I'm with you on that. I've said before on this podcast that I'm a little skeptical of keto. And, well, anyway, that's enough on it.

So what's next for you? I mean, you're traveling the world. You're conquering the paddleboarding community. What's next for you? You know, it's interesting with who I get up and I want to go, I have so much energy, what am I going to do? So what I'm doing now is I'm reading my first symphony. Oh, wow. So I have got all of the, you know, music score and notion six software.

And I sit down by six-year-old in night and we compose. You know, we get a few lines there and we put in the trumpet, we put the pickle, we put in the flute. And we pull in the harp underneath. And we put the strings underneath that. So I'm writing my first step. Well, what I respect so much about you is you're just, you're adventurous and you're never going to stop learning, you know, and I feel like that's just so important. It's just never stop, never stop trying stuff, learning, experimenting. I tell my kids, you know, you want to have a menu of learning.

A lot of people say, what do you do? And I think it's the wrong question and elicit's the wrong answer. Because suddenly you're struggling, you're like, oh, geez, learn. What's the job? It's a good thing I started there at this interview. Right. It's easy. You know, like, you know, what do you do?

But instead it's like, you know, what are you learning? And so I think that, especially in this gig environment, which in one sense is tragic. You know, we used to have all this job security. You put away your pension. You put it away your 401K. You have a regular job. You have a career. You get to concentrate in your family.

You get to go to a house and whatnot. You know, with my own kids, it's such a struggle. I mean, are they ever going to have their own house? No, it's tough. And so, I think in a gig environment, you're only as good as your next venture. And so I'm a big, big believer in having a menu of learning. So I decided four months ago that I was going to learn, you know, deep learning, machine learning, which is the basis of our personal intelligence.

So I went back and relearned matrix algebra, differential calculus, base theorem. And then I've probably taken 40 courses now in machine learning. I've learned Python. I know how to code it. Oh, awesome. I do a lot of stuff with health. start-ups, which is super fun. I love the whole startup environment. So I took the entire career course on user experience and user learning and user design. So I wanted to learn, you know,

sketch and vision to do the user. Yeah, those are super popular. We use those today. So, so, for instance, if I'm talking to someone about what, well, like you, when I'm talking about what your screens look like, I don't have an idea. That's it is. There's your new screen. That's what it'll look like. Yeah. And, you know, I've taken the front end, the back end, now I'm doing symphony. So I think that it's really exciting to have this kind of menu. And I think you know, kind of the right answer when someone says, what do you do

is, I'm a project person. So, you know, you can go, I always tell people, you know, when someone asks to go to a cocktail party event, what do you do? Nobody cares. In other words, they really don't because people want to go, well, I'm an executive senior vice president at this big

investment company. It's like, nobody cares. You've impressed yourself, but you haven't impressed them, right? I'd much rather have somebody a fire in their eyes and they go, I'm working with this really cool startup called Whoop, and we're transforming in the world. You have this device, and I get up every morning, I look at this stuff, and I'm so excited,

and I'm so pumped up, and I go out there, I want to kill it, right? Yeah. That's what's important. But, you know, in the gig environment, you're only as good as your next gig, and for your next gig, you're out there competing with the world. So if you're doing video production, there isn't anybody that graduates from high school

they can't make the movie, right? They can all make the own movie, right? So how do you compete? Well, you learn machine learning or you learn to compose. I mean, but it's exciting to be able to go from project to project and build all these new skills. Now, as someone who's been able to learn all these things, presumably largely through the Internet and taking courses online and stuff,

like do you think that the education system, the elite education system, is going to come a little bit under fire in the coming years? I mean, just recently we've seen all these college scandals about parents You know, buying their kids into college through shady means. Like, is the importance of going to Harvard going to go away over time? Well, so it's interesting. I'm on the board of directors.

This wonderful foundation, Artisan Justice, but then still, when he was kidding, he goes, yeah, I just went to Yale. My daughter's going into their football scholarship. So I'm already saying that the routine education is going away. So, for instance, the hottest thing right now is deep learning. Artificial neural networks, convolutional neural networks. networks. And so I looked at taking a course at Columbia. I looked at coming down to MIT and spending a couple of years doing the course. But I went and I took two courses at Stanford on Coursera.

And then I found that that really wasn't enough. They were way behind the curb, but took an MIT course. And then I found this site called Udeme. And so people can just put up their own courses. So I've taken 40 courses on deep learning on Rumi. And I go and I do the coding, do the coding exercises. and I've been able to take two years of a master's degree in compress in about three months. Well, there are hundreds of thousands of kids in India, in Egypt, in Kenya, who have no opportunity on their own. They're not going to go to Harvard in Montana, but they can go and take that course for $9 on Unami, right?

Totally. And they can get themselves up to the point at which they could get a job or they can pitch themselves. So that's the miracle with learning now, is that people can go and they can take almost anything, and they can learn it all online, they can find their courses, they go, they study their own pace, and these courses might be like a, like it's standard, it's a two-month-long course. I'm going to do that course in an afternoon. I'm going to rip through it, find everything I need, and take the next course. So people are really ambitious.

This is what I love about this. You look, for instance, at, you know, the first Arab Spring in 2007, right, and the second Arabis swimming in Egypt. Well, I mean, you have a PhDs if we can't afford milk who are working as a street sleep. I mean, it's terrible. For the Middle East, I spent, you know, spent a ton of time, you know, major to Islamic history, speak Arabic. And it kills me to see these kids, you know, who have this great education, they're going nowhere, to think that they then can compete in the international marketplace and machine learning. They're ambitious. They can go. They do these courses all day long. They can get themselves up, and then they can work up for Google

or Apple remotely. And by the way, the person, who builds the same skill set on their own in Kenya versus the kid who does it in the States at a university like that kid from Kenya's got resilience like they're going to crush I would love to hire that person

you know that person's phenomenal and the gig environment you're going to hire kids yeah absolutely absolutely I mean I love this concept that the internet levels the playing field doesn't it right if you're motivated and you want to learn a skill and you have internet access You can really learn a lot of it, you know?

I mean, sure, there's certain things that you need instruction around, but... But, you know, even there, like, for instance... So I've taught myself Python 3.6 or 7, one of the latest version is. I taught myself whole machine learning. I get stuck. Well, they have a thing which is basically code mentor online. So I go get a code mentor. And I get some kid from Bangladesh or some kid in Libya, you know,

who's out there with some machine guns in the background, who's going to, over $25 an hour, help me. mentor you help mentor me in being able to do code what's your advice to the person is listening right now and they're like gosh you know this is inspiring I want to I want to learn something but you know I feel like I don't have time or do you know how do I get motivated around this what do you say to that person so it's so incredibly easy it's $9.99 go to Udeme as an example pick a course any course anything you registered me we'll put that in the show and shout out and then take machine learning, you know, take machine learning A to Z, you just start to get into

it. You just take anything. Right. And so, you know, look, what do we do all day long? We pop up our iPhone and we go in there, we look at some nonsense site, right? In Instagram, how do you feel? Now, do you spend any time on social media? I mean, I'm terrible. I go to a event and I go like, you know, 137 people like my most recent thing under to me. So here's, here's my social media. But I think that's actually encouraging that, you know, despite the fact that you're using social media, like, you're still able to do all these other things. Because some people are probably sitting there thinking, look, I spend two hours a day on Instagram.

Do I need to just hot swap that for Udeme or some other, you know, online learning course? But the reality is, you know, you just can find the time for it. Well, so when I look at the amount of times I do this during the day, well, instead of going to see my life's I have in my last stand-up paddling race or teaching my kid guitar, why don't I go and just take like, listen to 15 more minutes of the course, if I'm taking the subway, or I mean, I love subways and trains because I've some of the extra time. I'll take that and I'll do the course there. So you have all this time where you're sitting and you're wasting on your iPhone where you could be leveling the playing field.

Now, it's interesting. And do you, will you listen to courses too without visualizing anything? I've gotten very into listening to podcasts. And I think that, that is, you know, I've spent, I spent an hour and a half listening to an author, I won't say who, but I spent an hour and a half listening to an author, get interviewed, and I was like, oh, this is inspiring. I'll go read the person's book. And by the way, listening to the person for 90 minutes was way better than the book. Oh, yeah, sure.

You know what I mean? And so, I don't know, there's something happening there, too. You know, because, I mean, I'm a huge believer in that. I mean, like, so it's a three and a half hour drive from Stovermont down to your office is here. Yeah. In another hour to find a parking space. Totally.

And so the whole time, I'm doing a course. And I'm trying to look at a little bit of on the way down, but, you know, listening largely to the course. Yeah. But I think two things that happen. So, one, you have the education, but two, you have the tools that weren't you ever before. So, for instance, if I wanted to write a symphony, or if I wanted to write a Christmas car, or if I wanted to write a Ramadan son,

or if I wanted to write, you know, the next. Or learn a language. Or learn a language. You know, it used to be that you really had to go to university. Now it's so beautifully done online. But the other thing has changed is the tools are now in your hand to be able to do this. I mean, look at this video production now. So it used to be that you'd have to have, you know,

you'd hired somebody who's been 30 years as the camera, you know, and you'd have to, you know, get a $75,000 camera. You know, the ability to take this, so we now have the tools. You can now take somebody that looks like a Hollywood movie in terms of the looking, go that could go and shoot this and then put in a color set, make it look more film. Well, there's a famous director, I'm blanking on his name, but he shot a whole show that was on HBO, I believe, on his iPhone.

I mean, that's pretty badass. So back in 1996, I was in the Congo, and I'm out there, we have the first single-chip little camera. And I'm shooting it, of course, you know, it's going like this all over the place, since I make your air-sac. And I'm out with a buddy of mine, Austin Hurst, who's families involved in broadcasting,

and he has this, and he's been a professional camera. he shoots a stand-up and I go oh my god that's a professional camera and he goes no that's a professional cameraman so I teach people when you take the iPod and you go shoot with it pretend that this is a 900 pound camera and move it like it's

yeah really slowly you know allow the action to happen within the frame learn how to compose and you've got an enormous amount of production experience with a course again you know everybody owns an iPhone I don't watch an hour course on how to shoot by the ones. They get better videos. They didn't know what from me. That's true. I spent a lot of time at YouTube and St. Bruno saying, you know,

what did you get away from crazy cat videos and start to do real production, which they did. You know, they geared up and were able to teach better courses, and it's much better higher quality production. But the other thing is, is that the platforms now are phenomenal. So as an example, I've, my whole life wanted to write a symphony, and I had no way to be able to do it. So now I'm watching a Udeme course on doing the symphony, and they're telling you how easy it is. How you develop the melody, how you're going to get the rhythm. So I'm starting to get those lines in there. And now there are these wonderful platforms that give you the whole score for symphony.

So I'll go and put in flute. It actually sounds like a flute. And I'll put in my violins. Maybe I'll open it with the timpani. Boom, bum, bum, bum, bum, and the strings come in, and the high trumpet and whatnot. So it's phenomenal that a kid, again, sitting in the, in the timponabony. the middle of, you know, the lower Nile Valley could take this out and write a symphony, you know, find somebody incredibly inspiring about them. So, you know, it's, it's the most amazing new world.

And I think that, you know, my number one piece of advice is leave the anxiety behind and let the adventure begin. Well, that's an interesting segue to a book I'm reading right now, which is called How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan. And it's all about psychedelics. you're a medical nut, but his point of view is that, in short, there's a lot of advantages that the medical community can find through psychedelics. So, you know, the idea of using MDMA to treat PTSD, certain things around... Oh, NDMA? DMA? Yeah, excuse me, MDMA, like ecstasy. Well, but the interesting thing is, is that the, so the NDMA receptor, pain receptor,

Yeah. It's the most powerful receptor. And ketamine, which is used to counter that receptor. Right, right. So this is another one of the drugs he writes to that. It is the best. But now, Mass General here, the best department of psychiatry in the world, they have pioneered using an NDMA antagonist.

Ketamine is a nasal spray for depression. It's the first new, truly new antidepressant in 30, 40 years. Phenomenal results. And for people, for instance, who have an automobile accident in Germany on the Autobahn, They give them ketamine, and they have much less follow-up pain than other people do. So it's a phenomenal class of drug. But, I mean, I don't agree with the psychedelic experience, but I do think... Like the mushrooms and stuff, you're not there.

I mean, I honestly, I think using your platform here, having that great night's sleep, getting up and you see yourself in the green, you know, you're so awake and you're so aware, and you're so aware of you go, I don't think you need to clutter yourself with psychedelics. I really don't. I mean, I think that exercise, good diet, and sleep are the best drugs that there are. If you've done all the other drugs and you do this, you'll prefer it because you just feel great at the time. I'll add a fourth, which I've discovered, which is breathing. Do you do anything around breathing?

So if I'm going to go and do Dr. Oz's show, right? Yeah. And I want to look really good. Or I'm going to give a speech in front of 1,500 people. Yeah. I go and I do this. I go, mm-hmm. Or let's say I'm in the...

So a special form of breathing. And for how long will you do it for? So, I mean, I'll... The proponents will have you do it for, you know, half hour and hour. Sure. I don't have no much time. I'll do the beginning part of yoga. So let's say...

So 10 minutes? 10, 15 minutes, whatever. So, for instance, you're going to Logan Airport. Yeah. You get a flight. You're like, you're meeting with leg. You know, I actually wrote this in one of my book. for the biology of success.

I said, okay. Did you get out of your coffee, honey, you're in there, you're in the car. Go, go, go, go, go, go. Oh, there's the one. Oh, my God, you're in there, you get there, and you get out, you jump in your seat, you go, okay, congratulations.

You've just done, with 200,000 people have done worldwide in this hour. They've got on an airplane. Where's the success there? Why didn't you take an extra half hour, right? Yeah. But when I'm going through that TSA line, ordinarily, you'd be frustrated.

It's a long line, you're waiting, you make your flight. I go. So you'll do that in line. I will take, I will take the most stressful experiences during the day and use it as an opportunity to drop my stress into the sewer. I love practicing.

I love that. I'll also do a couple of the things for, I'll do one of the bunch of the poses. People think I'm insane. I'm afraid that TSA is going to take me aside. And along flights, I'll do it too. You know, I walk into the little cubby hole there next to the kitchen. Now, would you classify it as meditation,

or do you think of it as purely breathing? So, I was doing a television piece with Dean Ornister a few years ago. He's the only person who's ever shown in a complete reversal of coronary heart disease with a combination of diet exercise and stuff. So I went out to see him and I was like, yeah, Dean, I'm training three hours a day. I've got a great diet. He goes, mom, unless you add the third, you know, pig or pillar to your stool, you're going to fail. And that is meditation.

And I go, it's not anything I can't do medicine. Go do yoga. So I do the yoga. So yoga's been your meditation because a lot of people, they can't just kind of sit here still like this. But if they were doing something, like moving a little bit. And I'll do one on the floor.

I just, you know, completely relax. And then you can kind of focus on your mind. So I do the yoga as a form of meditation. So that's interesting. So for people who are listening who want to get into meditation, but haven't been able to just sit still for 20 minutes. Yoga. Try the yoga.

And you were doing this sort of interesting arm movement while you were doing it. Yeah, I like that. They're probably in the right, say, do it all wrong. But nonetheless, I'm hard. That's fine. Well, I know you've got to get out of here. Any other tips for our audience on how to use whoop or how to be optimal? So what I would say is look at use cases.

That is, look at the problem you have and see how it can solve it. So if you have terrible health, if you're overstressed and on the all-in-law diet, no idea. You have no compass. Use whoop as your compass to direct you to better health. If you're an athlete and you're out there and you just pound on the pavement every day and you're kind of lost, you're overtrained, you're losing your enthusiasm, turn to whoop because it's going to tell you when you can hammer it and it's going to tell you when you need to rest and relax. And you will have the best workouts of your whole life. I love that. And when you have that green day and you look at them and you're going to get them and go,

oh my God, what am I going to do with my day? I feel so good. I can't believe it. What part of the world am I going to say to that? What am I going to crush? The trouble is, you know, with our lifestyle, we feel so crazy and stressed and all that. We think that is the way we have to do it. And you know, you realize when you pull back

and you start to have those green recovery days, you feel so great. And you said, look, in three hours in green, you'll beat five days on red. So why not have those green days? Why not use this as an alphorometer? So I think that, I think Oop is much more than it has been. I mean, look, it's been tremendous.

athletes. I think it's great to combat over training. That's how I came to it. Yeah. But I think with you, upside, here is your ultimate real day-by-day health parameter, health compass to allow you to be more unimaginably

great than you ever thought you'd be. Well, I love that soundbite and thank you so much for being on whoop. And thank you for whoop. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's been funny. And thanks for the cool straps, too. Yeah, of course. Thanks again to Bob for being my guest.

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