WHOOP Podcast - Dr. Jeremy London: Biggest Risks for Heart Disease As You Age

Episode Date: January 29, 2025

What are the risks of heart disease as you age? Dr. Jeremy London is back this week with WHOOP Global Head of Human Performance and Principal Scientist Kristen Holmes to share more insights on the impact of cardiovascular health on longevity! Kristen and Dr. London define blood pressure (00:30) and its effects on cardiovascular events (02:49). Dr. London breaks down the best ways to train to optimize cardio health (05:30), how he prepares for surgery, his position on the responsibility of healthcare professionals to “practice what they preach” (18:13), and systemic issues within healthcare (21:27). Dr. London rounds out the episode by providing tips on the importance of personalizing your health and longevity journey (32:59). Resources:Dr. Jeremy London - Instagramdrjeremylondon.comFollow WHOOPwww.whoop.comTrial WHOOP for FreeInstagramTikTokXFacebookLinkedInFollow Will AhmedInstagramXLinkedInFollow Kristen HolmesInstagramSupport the showSupport the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

The muscle is the organ of longevity. That's just pitch perfect. If I look at my own evolution through this, when I was doing really hardcore endurance type events, I was doing zero strength training back then. A lot of it was because of the time management, but it was also like, I don't need to do that. You know, I'm swimming, I'm running, I'm riding, I'm doing all these things. I don't need to do it. That's total misconception.

Again, you need both. Both of those pieces are really, really crucial. Dr. Jeremy London, welcome. What is blood pressure and why does it matter in terms of cardiovascular health? Super simple, you know, just to kind of the bare bones, is that blood pressure, to think about it as a risk factor is the amount of resistance that the heart is seeing with each beat. Now, that's not the whole picture, but I think that that is the way you should think about high blood pressure, in particular. because that's where the risk comes from. Because as you get this kind of hypertoned in your blood vessel systemically,

that's what's cranking up the blood pressure. The heart is having to work harder with each beat. It's seeing more resistance. Well, the heart is a muscle, just like any other muscle. And over time, that muscle is going to become thickened and less efficient over time. And so when you have untreated high blood pressure, not to mention kidney problems and That's the thing. It's not just doesn't just impact your heart. High blood pressure impacts your kidney just as much. None of these things happen in a vacuum. Yeah. You know, everything is everything is

interconnected. But specifically, if we're talking about cardiac involvement, that's really where it comes from is the workload that the heart is seeing. And increased workload, over time is dangerous because at some point, the heart is going to start to fail. And when we look at longevity, when we look at single elements in a workup that determine, like, how long is this person going to live? It's fairly simple. It's how strong is the heart pump? Patients with strong hearts do much better than patients with weak hearts.

Ejection fraction, which is what measures the amount of blood that's, ejected from the heart each time is the indication of whether the heart is strong or not. Interestingly, we don't eject 100% of the blood with each heartbeat. A normal ejection for action is somewhere between 60 and 70% because some blood does stay in the heart with each beat. But that really is kind of the timeline that we see when we talk about untreated high blood pressure and why it's so important that it's treated early. Is it possible to have, you know, low blood pressure or kind of within a really healthy

normal range and have a cardiovascular event? Absolutely. Many, many, many, many people do. Talk about that. What's going on there? Like, what, you know, what are the other things that are happening that? So, you know, when we talk about heart problems in general, you have to kind of put them into two major categories.

And the first is blockages in the heart arteries. And when I say heart arteries, that's arteries that are supplying nutrients and oxygen to the heart muscle itself. And we have three territories, the front, the side, and the back, basically. A heart attack is with the blood flow in one of those or multiple territories is suddenly shut off and then the heart muscle becomes bloodstarts. That can happen with or without high blood pressure. The thing about any of these things independently is if you have them, yes you are at increased risk of cardiovascular disease but if you don't have them it doesn't mean that you're not the second um a category is valvular heart disease and we hear a lot about aortic stenosis

now just because we can fix the aortic valve through the groin it doesn't require a big operation and we can do it in the other with the other valves as well it's just not as common and so a lot of the valvular disease is just senile, if you will, as we get older, a certain percentage of people are going to develop that. And a certain percentage, you're born with a genetic valve, whether it has two leoplets as opposed to three, that degenerates over time. So when we talk about heart disease in general, particularly in my world, those are the two big categories. And the risk factors for those are very different. There's very few risk factors for valvular disease. In other words, getting aortic stenosis or a leaky mitral valve or mitral valve prolapse

that then, you know, progresses one way or the other. It's really blockages in the heart arteries that we're talking about when we're talking about risk factor modification. Just to clarify. So if we're talking health span and we're really trying to think about how do I optimize for my cardiometabolic health, how do you think about resistance training, zone five, zone two, you know, what's like your kind of perfect stack, you know, for yourself or, you know, kind of how you'd think about prevention or, you know, just optimizing for health span. Yeah. It's funny. What popped into my head right now was I saw an interview with an 80-year-old guy who had been married for 65 years. And the question was, well, what's the secret to being

married for this on? What's the key? And he said, well, it's not one key. It's most multiple keys over the years to open different doors because you're not the same person at 20 that you are at 30 and to have the willingness to go through those doors together and understand. And I think it's the same way. I think it's the same way when we look at metabolic health and we look at health span because like if you asked me that 10 or 15 years ago, I would give you a very different answer than I would give you today. But again, I think that that, that mindset of how you do anything is how you do everything and that if you set yourself up for lifestyle choices early in your 20s that will then prepare you properly in your 50s and 60s,

whether even though the intensity may be different earlier, which is normal and it should be and what have you, I think that's kind of the key. Now, if we're looking at the indicators, Obviously, VO2 Max and cardiovascular health is the most powerful when we look at the actual data. And so I think that to remove cardio training from your regimen is just foolish. Right. And we see that in the data. Like, people who are not working their heart, I mean, their cardiovascular profiles are not good, you know. And so lifting gets is so important. It gets you partially the way there, but it's not working your heart in a way that is really protective against all the things that you're talking about.

And again, I think it goes back to none of these things happen in a vacuum, right? And it takes multiple spokes in the wheel to turn this machine properly. Muscle mass is critical. I mean, you know, I love Gabrielle Lyons. Yeah. You know, she is wonderful and, you know, the muscle is the organ of longevity. That's just pitch perfect, you know, and I think she's right. And I think that if I look at my own evolution through this when I was doing really

hardcore endurance type events, I was doing zero strength training back then, zero. A lot of it was because of a time management, but it was also like, I don't need to do that. you know, I'm swimming, I'm running, I'm riding, I'm doing all these things. I don't need to do it. That's total misconception. Again, you need both. And I think that both of those pieces are really, really crucial. And then I think, again, the other unforgotten is, you know, this mindfulness and recovery piece. I mean, let's look at heat therapy. The cardiovascular benefits of sauna are so powerful. And it's not that much time in the sauna. It's really not. It's like 60 minutes a week. Right. That 12 to 19 minute sweet spot, it's not that long. It's not that. It feels so good. I really, when I don't do

it, I really, really miss that. And I know it's good for me. And so I really, I really enjoy it. And then, you know, the other things like meditation and breath and oral health and what have you kind of over here. And I'm putting them over here as well. But I think that all of these things really need to be the three legs of a stool, not on a line. I think oftentimes we try to simplify things, right? And we try to give people things to focus on. And I do think there's a taxonomy. And I think resistance training is probably at the top.

You know, we talk about, hey, if you can't, if you are so limited on time, you know, lift weights. That's big. And then I'd put it number two. I'd put zone five sprint a couple times a week. I think that's so important, right? Would you agree as a... I do. I do.

I do. You know, I think that, and the reason I had that slight hesitation is because, like, I can't really sprint anymore from a running standpoint. But I do other things. Exactly. Yeah. Or in the pool, like, 100%. Just so we clarify that, like, you know, just get to that. Good clarification.

That zone five heart rate because we're all... So, that's heart rate. So you're just trying to, like, you're basically going to your out of breath. Exactly. I need to get out of breath a couple times a week by whatever means that whatever it takes on a bike. It's great when it's sprinting because the whole neuromuscular activation that you get from that is so good for you. It's just so good for your body. And as we age, just, you know, being able to get down on the floor and get off and be strong and all those things is so important.

And it does all of those things kind of in one fail swoop. But yeah, I do agree that if you're going to, if you're going to kind of parse out your time and your cardio, cardio training, some of it needs to be high intensity of some nature, whatever it is that gets you there. And then the lower intensity, the zone two, I mean, for mitochondrial health, it just, the evidence is so overwhelming for men and women. You know, I think it's just such a core piece of the programming, you know, that needs to get fit in. It's the reason it's the base layer for everything else that we do. And it's going to allow us to build the Zone 5 more efficiently. It's going to allow us to strength train more efficiently. Like that, just that foundation of healthy mitochondrial functioning, like the fastest path to that is Zone 2.

Is that true? There's no question that it is. I really subscribe to that literature, that, you know, the evidence that exists around that. Why do you think that is, just out of curiosity? Because I have a theory, but I have no proof to it. I'm just curious. Why do you think it's a path to get there easier? So in other words, if you have a solid base.

I mean, I think it's just efficiency, right? When you look at it at a biological mechanistic standpoint, you're talking about cellular communication, right? When the cells are able to communicate efficiently, we just, we reduce all that friction, right? We're able to adapt and respond to load more effectively, right? And so I think it's really about how do I create condition? where I enable myself to communicate with each other properly.

That's light behavior. It's zone two. It's feeding windows. It's, you know, it's just this basic stuff, right? It's sufficient,

well-timed sleep. It's not one thing. It's many things that I think enable this communication, but I kind of put zone two very much in that bucket of helping to facilitate that side of communication. That is exactly the way I feel about it. Because I think what zone two does is it gives our bodies and at the cellular level, an opportunity to accommodate.

Yes. And that is what's so important. That's why it's the foundation of doing the other things. You know, if you go out and you're only doing Zone 5 or you don't have that base, you get injured most of the time. Right. If you allow and your patient to you allow your body to accommodate, whether it's to, you know, move your lactic threshold or whatever,

it is, it can be cellular communication. It can be any, all of those things. That period of accommodation is what then allows your body to be responsive in a very different way when you push it. What's up, folks, if you are enjoying this podcast or if you care about health, performance, fitness, you may really enjoy getting a whoop. That's right. You can check out whoop at whoop.com. It measures everything around sleep, recovery, strain, and you can now sign up for free for 30 days. So you'll literally get the high performance wearable in the mail for free. You get to try it for 30 days, see whether you want to be a member. And that is just at whoop.com. Back to the guests. All right. We wanted to talk with you about how you prepare for surgery.

So what are the types of surgeries that you generally do? So I am a cardiac surgeon now. When I was first in practice, because I'm boarded in vascular and cardiac, and I was doing thoracic surgery, I was doing all of those things. And I was very excited about doing all of those things. And I was very, very busy. And what you realize is that you're really good at what you do every day. And to do thoracic oncology, cancer, and it's, those are huge disciplines in and of themselves.

And at some point, you have to, you have to kind of, yeah, you got to make some choices. And so over the years, I've basically focused on what I'm really best at, which is heart surgery. And so that's what I do every day. And that involves both kind of the big incisions, the little incisions, doing procedures through the groins, through very minimally invasive type procedures, injuries of the blood vessels, things of that, that nature. And that's really how I have focused my, my day to day over the last, about 15 years now, actually. So it's all heart surgery. So, you know, a lot of what you've talked about, I mean, you're in a scenario where you have to be ready for those surgeries. I mean, are you at a point where do you have to kind of get up for it?

Is it like, you know, a game? Like, how do you like think about it? Or is it so automatic at this point? So I think it's like anything, you know, what there's certain, there's a certain amount of routine and anything that you do every day. I mean, I've probably done 5,000 heart operations over the last 25 years. So yes, there is a certain amount of routine. However, I approach every operation exactly the same, you know, and that is I do a great deal of mindfulness going from step one to step. done, if you will, on every operation, even the ones I've done many, many, many, many times because each one is a little different. And that along the way enables me to identify three, four, five potential scenarios where I'm worried of something that potentially can go wrong.

And I prepare for all of those. Because what happens? It's like a SWAT. It's like literally just like preparing for a game, because sport. event. Absolutely. Yeah. You visualize. Then you plan for potential problems because just like when you're in a sporting event, you don't rise to the occasion. You drop to your level of training. As much as we would like to believe that we're going to go here, you know, like Tyson said, it's a fight until you get punched in the face. And suddenly you have to totally refocus, you know, where you are.

And look, there's plenty of times when things happen that I didn't plan for. Nonetheless, I've been doing it long enough that I do have an opportunity to do that. And then the final step is that I always refocus on the patient that I'm operating on. Because to me, what I do is a privilege and an honor. And I approach every patient encounter like that. and I tell patients in their family that I'm going to care for them as if they're my own. And I want to make good on that promise when I walk into the operating room. And I think that if any of those things were to go away, honestly, that it would be time for me to stop.

You know, I get the question frequently, you know, are you scared before you go in the operating? Are you scared in the operating room? And the reality is that there are certainly cases that I am more concerned about and that I get nervous for lack of a... But that's good because that makes me prepared differently. But once I am in the operating room, I do not get nervous. That is a different mindset for me when I'm in the operating room. There's no room for that when you're in the operating room.

Every surgeon I've ever talked to has the same, says the same thing. thing. That said, all the surgeons I've talked to are elite like yourself, you know, like are really at the tip of their spear in terms of their profession. Another important piece to that is your ability to show up in that moment, too, is, you know, in large part, contingent on how you take care of yourself, you know, and obviously you take that really seriously. So I would imagine people are just fighting to have you as their search. That I don't know about it. You know, it's like any relationship. But I think you think about it. Like me, I wish they did.

But, yeah, I mean, I think that there is something to be said, and we kind of touched on it earlier about, you know, going to a physician that kind of blows off an A1C that's maybe borderline. I think that we're headed into a next phase of health care where people really want to know that the physician is engaged in the same type of choices that they're expecting the patient. you're setting an example and it also like I don't tell a runner that I do an operation on that they're never going to run again you know I mean I tell them that it's going to take time but you're going to get back there I mean I remember you I was in practice for maybe one or two years and I'd done an aortic bowel replacement on a fairly young guy who's maybe in his early 50s something like that and I was running a half marathon in Savannah and I was like on PR. I mean, and PR for me was like a 142 and a half marathon. Like, I mean, that was really,

my wife and I were out the other day and she looked at me. She goes, maybe we should get T-shirts and say, I used to be fast. I said, probably, yeah, that'd probably be good. But I mean, I was moving. I was really proud of myself. And I hear somebody behind me going, Dr. London, Dr. London, Dr. London. And as I turned around this guy smacks me on the butt, it was the guy had done the aortic valve on and he passed me. Oh, I love it. And beat me. And it was like, that made my year. It totally made my year. And so I think that people are looking for that kind of support. Like, it's not that no, you can't. It's like, all right, let's figure it out. Like, how are we going to scale what you really love so that you can still do those things in

some way as opposed to you're never going to run again? This is kind of spicy. But, I, like, you want your doctor to be practicing what they preach. Like, I just, I feel like that's pretty fundamental. That's not the norm. What's your, what's your take on that? What is the responsibility of a health care professional to really practice what they preach? This is absolutely the same and in line with like personal trainers. Hey, well, I'm going to hire you as a personal trainer.

I want to aspire to be, you know, I want to. look like you. I want to be radiant like you are. I want, you know, my skin to be clear, whatever it is. And from my perspective, I mean, it's like, how do you validate and legitimize having that kind of relationship where you're, you know, the biggest problem is, you know, the engagement and getting patients to buy in and then to follow through. And if you're not doing those things yourself. I mean, you know, it's no different. Do you think that's why a lot of those conversations don't happen in full because the person who's delivering it knows that they themselves are not honest? You're going to get in all kinds of hot water. I mean, sometimes we need to

zoom out as a society, right? You know, I think that we have a responsibility as citizens to take care of ourselves. And I understand I say that from a place of privilege, but I think there are a lot education. There's a lot of education. There's a lot of resources out there. So for people who have access to education who have the resources, I think you have an obligation to take care of yourself because you put an enormous burden on your family. You put an enormous burden on the health care system. So I think like sometimes it's important for us to zoom out and be honest about our role as a citizen. Accountability. And it doesn't stop when, you know, between the patient and physician line, you know, it just, it just doesn't. And I think that for people to take you

seriously, that you've got to be walking the walk and getting it after it yourself. And it's got a show, right? I mean, and it shows based on how you take care of yourself. It's very obvious, very quickly, to patients when they walk in, you know, where you are or are not on that spectrum. Look, I don't deny that there's people that struggle. I don't want to, belittle or underestimate the difficulty there. By the same token, yes, when you're just making bad decisions, even though we especially know better. And look, I'm just as guilty. I have to admit. But I feel like I am able to redirect and recourse myself. Because again, as we talked about life does this, and it's not a straight line to success. It's the willingness to pick

yourself up and to admit that you didn't do it right. And I think like the culture inside healthcare can be tough in that, you know, I think the archetype who goes into the profession is inherently not self-serving and is inherently selfless. And I think that shows up in ways that are really detrimental for the human system, right, and how they're able to show up in their profession. So it's like figuring out, okay, how do we shift the culture so as to still honor, you know, kind of that selflessness and that, that beautiful archetype, right? But also create conditions where they can take care of themselves so they're not burning out, right? And that's just, I just see this in my data. So it hurts me to my soul, right, where I see these beautiful humans literally do not have

the capacity to meet the demands day to day. And you can see it in their eyes, right? It's so pan. They love their work so much, but they just don't have the capacity, right, to meet the demand. So I guess I just, yeah, more broadly, you know, sometimes just wonder what, what we can do from a cultural perspective inside, you know, health care. Yeah, I mean, I think that, I think what you see is we leave a piece of our soul on the table. I mean, I think the people that care, that's, that's what you see. And that's what you want. Yeah. I mean, that's what you want when you walk in. Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's the difference because when it, good enough is never enough. You're always going to be willing to go to here. That's number one. And number two, that it's not about being right. It's about doing the right thing. And that doesn't mean that you always have the answer. I think those are the two things that really take you from good to great. Those are kind of, you know, knowing your limitations and your bandwidth and then being willing to. to really kind of give more.

But I agree with you that it's like, it's like where's that line? Like we've got hours that pilots can fly, we've got hours that train conductors can work, you know, the crane operators at the port, but our most precious commodity, there's no meter, you know, and we're not good self-policer because we're all, at least particularly of my generation,

It was the grind mentality, and that has changed a little bit with an 80-hour work. A cultural norm, you know. But I do think that there is going to have to be a major shift in health care in general. I mean, we're obviously seeing some really dramatic things recently in the news where, you know, the confidence in systems that are supposed to take care of us is to this point that that violence now is the response. We really have to get here to know that we're broken. I mean, I don't think there's a person on the street that you would stop that would say, oh, our health care system is awesome.

Walter Cronkite said in the late 90s, he said the American health care system is neither healthy nor caring. That was back in the 90s, you know. And I would argue that I think the people are inherently caring the majority. It's because their own health is so compromised that it's hard to show up. Yeah, it is. And I mean, look, we all have that, that capacity changes so dramatically over the years. What I have found personally is that I have the energy to show up. The recovery time, I mean, if I'm up for, let's say, 24, 36 hour stretch, that used to be like a 24 hour turnaround for me. Like, I would come home, sleep for a couple hours, go for a run, go to the office, and I was ready to go. now it's a week we really do need some some real shifting in in mindset you know clearly access is a huge problem communication is a huge problem and i mean simple stuff like how many friends do you hear i called my doctor's office no one answers the phone i can't get a person okay i got a

person now no one has called me back now that i mean and that's just this layer. We need some really dramatic changes fundamentally, you know. And if we go back to that old functional medicine model, like from the healthcare perspective, I look at healthcare as a three-legged stool where you have physicians and hospitals, insurance companies, and then medical industry, you know, the device companies, pharmacy, because everything. And then supposedly sitting on that stool is the patient. Like, that's supposed to be the center of all of our focus. That stool, in my opinion, has been flipped upside down and the patient is like stuck under the stool right now. I think that if we all just flip the stool back over and refocused on the patient, you know, take care of the patient, not the profits as the primary goal.

The profits will come. It's just like going into business because you love what you do versus going to business because you want to make money. If you love what you do and it's what you're good at, you're going to be successful. I mean, it's just, it's the same thing. Well, one thing that I think is really missing, and again, just, you know, in the research that I do, is that, like, I just don't get how frontline healthcare clinicians don't have access to the same tools that I had as an athlete. You guys are, like, the highest performance, like, the stakes are so high in all of the high performance tools that go to our military operators and, you know, our professional athletes, like, frontline health clinicians should get that. and more. We should have high performance centers in every single hospital. We don't have a gym in our hospital. Exactly. Like that is just wild to me. And this is a problem.

One of the most important things for us to solve as a society is to figure out how to care for our frontline health care clinicians. That's, I've never thought about it that way, but that's really, I mean, it just makes so much sense. I think it has a lot to do with like this fraternal, historical, it's always been this way. is the way it's going to continue to be kind of mindset. That's a real problem. You know, unwillingness to change is like a lack of intelligence, you know, being curious of the world around you and being willing to explore is like the, you know, like why wouldn't we at least try something like this? I mean, I tell the hospital administrators all the time, like,

you don't have a gym for your employees here. Like, you know, it would be nice if I had a case delay that I could go and work out for two hours or whatever, whatever it is. I think that's, I think you're right that that analogy, though, of like top line athletes or military operators that are expected to function at a level at all times. High shakes, high stress. Right. all times, like have no opportunity to, you know, strengthen their own to handle that. That's really interesting. You know, I always find myself always thinking about it kind of from the, you know, how am I going to make it better from the patient standpoint? And very rarely think about, you know,

I blame our side more only because I think it's our responsibility. You know, when you talk about, you know, the education piece. that's really our responsibility with patients, you know, and to focus and listen to people and sit down, like walk in the room and sit down. It makes such a difference. You can just feel the, I think to your point, like the bubbling up, you know, of just like something's off here and we need to fix it. And it's great because I think that there's energy and momentum around our health care system and figuring out, okay, something's off. you know, where, what are the entry points, you know, to really make a difference here? And I think, you know, we're kind of circling around them. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that the issues are easy.

It's the path that's going to be like turning a battle show. You know, I think that that we can come up with some of these real fundamental areas that, like, would move the needle immediately. Totally. If we just, like, all decided to make these changes. But it's like the forces that are, that are maneuvering this economically, unfortunately, are so strong. Are so incredibly strong. Yeah. You know, that it really becomes, it becomes difficult.

And a lot of physicians just given up. We've just kind of gone. It's just too big of a problem at this point, it seems. Oh, it really like, like all we want to do is just take care of the people in front of us. You know, it has become so cumbersome just to, just to maneuver that and navigate it on a day-to-day basis that you're, like, all right, the least I can do is just try to push this to the side so that at least my priority remains where it's supposed to be focused at this point. But it really, I think, like you said, bubbling up is a really nice way to think about it. And it's not bubbling coolly.

It's, it's boiling. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I think that, I think that that's going to hopefully motivate some change, you know, that it'll be meaningful. I hope so. Is there anything that we miss that you feel like we should, we should tell our listeners about heart health or anything in the area of longevity? I think, I think we really have touched on all of the key points. I think it's, the most important thing is that, you know, we all feel in many respects like we're drinking from a fire hose these days with the amount of information that's out there. And that can be really overwhelming. And I think that in the end, figure out what works for you. Don't get caught up in what someone else is doing or what's right for them.

I mean, if you see something and you want to try it, that's great. But figure out your own instruction manual. Figure out your path. Don't be afraid to, you know, play bumper cars with it a little bit. Like, it's okay. You know, it's a human body. And it's going to be a process. for you. But this is such a personalized journey. There's not a right or wrong way to do it. There are

metrics and guides that we can use to make sure that we're shining the light in the right direction. And I think that that's really important along the way. But most importantly, remember that this is about doing what's right for you, not what you think people want you to do or what your doctor thinks you should do. It's about really figuring out what works. for you in your day-to-day life because that's what's going to be successful that's beautiful thank you so much so fun to chat with you thank you this was awesome i really really enjoyed it that's a wrap folks if you enjoyed this episode of the whoop podcast please leave a rating or review check us out on social at whoop at will omit if you have a question was answered on the podcast email us podcast

at whoop dot com call us 508 443 4952 if you think about joining whoop you can visit woup dot com sign up for a free 30-day trial membership. New members to use the code Will W-I-L to get a $60 credit on W-W-A-Ccessaries when you enter the code at checkout. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next week on the WOOP podcast. As always, stay healthy and stay in the green.